Ban women at the temple of Sabarimala?

[padmanabha]

The s c issued a notice to the kerala govt, on a petition challenging the provision by which the entry of women is barred at the temple of Sabarimala

[great]

padmanabha
Joined: 04 Jul 2006
Posts: 44


J/K

Does that means you have opened 44 thread :confused2:

Instead you can have one thread, Padmanabha speaks .

[madhu]

anaconda... better you bite ! :devil:

[padmanabha]

jealous to the core!!!!!!!!!!!11??????????

[great]

jealous to the core!!!!!!!!!!!11??????????

Jealous of what :confused2: :o


anaconda... better you bite ! :devil:

:exactly:

[Braandan]

If Sabarimala is just an ordinary temple is some corner of some village (there are so many such temples around India, where those cannot even afford a daily lamp to be lit), all these scams would not have surfaced. After Tirupathi it is highest income earning temple in India. Where there is money every one wants to grab it.. Greedy criminals!

[malsi]

I dont know much..but i guess the most logical reasons i can think of why women are not allowed to enter Sabarimala would be :
Divert the attention of the male devotees..:oops2:
But they have a 40 day rigid ritual followed at home in the constant company of their wives/women around their neighbourhood or office, were they not tempted then?

Menstrual cycles for women:argh:

The journey is too much for women..duhh !!!

I dont know...correct me if I am wrong





.

[mokshani]

I agree with u malsi :), i hope those are the reasons for not allowing women at sabarimalai, otherwise its not fair :cry: . God is one for all. He is not going to show the difference between men and women. He takes prayers of devotees irrespective of men or women. I dont believe in this kind of arrangements. Let me know if iam not right!!!! :roll: :confused2:

[Badri]

Hmm...the real reason being cited is that Ayyapa had mandated a 41-day penance before coming to his shrine. Obviously, only women who have crossed menopause or have not come into puberty can rigourously follow this regimen. The rest cannot.

I found this article on the web.


One of the main reasons cited to justify this traditional stand is the duration of period of penance. Tradition insists on 41-day severe penance before undertaking the pilgrimage.The fact that it is womanly impossible to stick on to a strict routine laid down against a conservative Hindu background, especially the stigma attached to menstruation, is cited as one reason for restricting women's entry.

Presiding priest of Sabarimala Tantri Kandararu Rajeevararu points out the exact reason: ``Millions of devotees throng Sabarimala during the pilgrimage. And presence of women among them can lead to law and order problems as not everybody, however ardent devotee he is, need not behave decently with women.''The concept about Ayyappa as installed at Sabarimala is that of a brahmachari in penance. The lore also says that he has vowed to remain a bachelor. People cite these reasons also to justify the ban on women's entry.


AYYAPPA AND ILAYATHAMPURATTY KALLU:
The Ilayathampuratty Kallu, a small stone statue hidden by time in a niche on a wayside rock, has nothing significant to catch the attention of devotees streaming to Pamba on the Laha Road. For, not many realise that this statue believed to be that of a princess of the Pandalam Palace stands as a warning post to women against undertaking a pilgrimage to Sabarimala.The story goes that a young princess of the Pandalam family insisted on accompanying the King on the first pilgrimage to Sabarimala even as other female members of the family stopped their journey at Kakkad, near Laha.However, the princes couldn't continue her journey from Laha due to unexpected menstrual problems. She informed the King about it and said she would wait for them in the hut of a Kani tribal. (According to Hindu beliefs, women shouldn't take part in any religious functions during menstruation.)And on his return the King was shocked to see that the princess had turned into a granite statue. The incident reminded him of Ayyappa's words that none without a 41-day penance should visit the hill shrine.

[Nakeeran]

Badri & others

On Ayyappan being portrayed as a Bramachari :

Poorna & Pushkalambal - are these 2 women supposed to be wives of Ayyappan ?

I have heard one sloka going like this :

Poorna pushkalambal samedha Sri Hari Hara puthran

Can someone enlighten me on this pls ?

[Badri]

Nakkeran: The answer to that might lie with the Dharmasastha temple in Achankovil. Any keralites here might be able to give better answers. All I know is in Achankovil, Ayyapan is worshipped in the married form with Poorna and Pushkala.

But it is highly probable that because Ayyapan is in a Brahmachari Yogi aspect in Sabarimala, ladies are restricted from going there. They are free to go all other Ayyapan temples!

And as Braandan had said, all this hullabaloo is only because of Sabarimala's popularity. If it were otherwise, who will bother with it?

[Nakeeran]

Nakkeran: The answer to that might lie with the Dharmasastha temple in Achankovil. Any keralites here might be able to give better answers. All I know is in Achankovil, Ayyapan is worshipped in the married form with Poorna and Pushkala.

Thanks Mr. Badri .

[Braandan]

poorna and pushkala are wives of "Dharma Sastha". Ayyappan is an avatar of Dharma Sastha. In this avatar he is a brahmachari.

Let the men get some peace for a few days at Sabarimala, why disturb their peace by introducing women there also..

This is like fighting for the rights of clothed people to enter a nudist colony..why then a nudist colony if everyone can come there dressed?

[kannannn]

Pardon my ignorance, but who is Dharma Sastha? Does he have any other avatar?

[Lambretta]

Let the men get some peace for a few days at Sabarimala, why disturb their peace by introducing women there also..

This is like fighting for the rights of clothed people to enter a nudist colony..why then a nudist colony if everyone can come there dressed?
:lol: :lol2:

[bingleguy]

I believe what Badri said is true to my knowledge ...

Normally ppl who has not gone through a rigid 41 or 45 days penance are not supposed to visit the temple ..... to have the darshan of the lord !

I ve heard small children who have not attained puberty can be taken to the temple.... :roll: though am not sure whether it is the same case with ladies who had their menopause !
But only those two sects can follow this rigorous and systamatic plan !

[sgokulprathap]

Normally ppl who has not gone through a rigid 41 or 45 days penance are not supposed to visit the temple ..... to have the darshan of the lord !! That shud not b the reason. I c many devotees not doin all those things. They just take 4 or 5 days penance.

[blahblah]

With all due respect to all who have responded to this thread:

I am a Roman Catholic Syrian Christian born and brought up in Kerala.Many devotees come to our house to get water and other stuff though they don't enter our house,on the way to Sabarimala.

Faith is always blind.There can not be anything scientifically proven when it comes to faith.Then traditions are traditions and when we do away with them[unless they are so discriminatory],thre core of that faith gets damaged.

Muslim women are not allowed in almost all Mosques.Christiuans do not allow women to be priests generally.I have never heard of a female incarnation of Budha.

We all live in a male dominated society.If women should be allowed in Sabarimala,there should be female priests in the Catholic church,there should be female mullahs in the Mosques,Polygamy should be accepted as a barbarian thing in Muslim families,and a Dalailama should be voted to pwer and so should be the Pope.

If you can't make sure of any of these things ,shut up!

[bingleguy]

Normally ppl who has not gone through a rigid 41 or 45 days penance are not supposed to visit the temple ..... to have the darshan of the lord !! That shud not b the reason. I c many devotees not doin all those things. They just take 4 or 5 days penance.

SHOULD not be the reason nnu solli enna prayojanam ... :-) actually many do not follow these days ...... avvalavudhaan !
you cant find out who has been like that and who hasnt :-) Only With due respects u ll get to see the Lord ! :-)

right ?

[Nakeeran]

Normally ppl who has not gone through a rigid 41 or 45 days penance are not supposed to visit the temple ..... to have the darshan of the lord !! That shud not b the reason. I c many devotees not doin all those things. They just take 4 or 5 days penance.

Gokul

Now a days crores & crores are visiting the shrine & issuing such a generalised statement like urs only degrades the sincerety shown by others
What u might have seen is a tiny drop in an ocean

As regards the 41 day viratham, there is a school of thought which says that this imbibes lots of self discipline like :

1. Vegetarianism
2. No contact with women ( purity )
3. Mind focussed ( most chant songs & bhajans on the lord )
4. Feeling of brotherhood ( this u can witness between any fellow Iyappa worshipper during the fasting period )
5. Makes u feel humble ( whether the guy is the owner of a big organisation or a down the line staff , its all the same )

Women , who had crossed the menstruation cycle have been regularly visiting the shrine of late.
& as Bingleguy pointed out, children who had not attained puberty, also are worshipping the Lord

Its for those who go through that cycle are requested to avoid visiting the place

[bingleguy]

:clap: Nakke !

I believe ppl shld really stop doin that ! When a penence has to be strictly adhered, we go thru the tough cycles in one life and the above mentioned points by Nakkeran are something that will take u to heights .... Practically speaking ..... u can see what all advantages

1. Vegetarianism - gives ur stomach a break after it continously has been churning in n out every being ... Also here it doesnt mean, u take a full throttle of a vege meal ... u have to have healthy n selected foods ..

2. Purity - here u are freed from the evil thoughts that linger ur mind ... relaxes ur mind and makes u concentrate on the real source

3. Mind Focus - Keeps u calm and happy

4. Feeling of brotherhood - no need to say ... reduces the irony between minds by almost 80%

5.humble - when u are simple n humble... u dont need to reach the god ..... he reaches u ! Good comes to u !

Ppl should have awareness about following the penance ... and should strictly follow the same !

[bingleguy]

With all due respect to all who have responded to this thread:

I am a Roman Catholic Syrian Christian born and brought up in Kerala.Many devotees come to our house to get water and other stuff though they don't enter our house,on the way to Sabarimala.

Faith is always blind.There can not be anything scientifically proven when it comes to faith.Then traditions are traditions and when we do away with them[unless they are so discriminatory],thre core of that faith gets damaged.

Muslim women are not allowed in almost all Mosques.Christiuans do not allow women to be priests generally.I have never heard of a female incarnation of Budha.

We all live in a male dominated society.If women should be allowed in Sabarimala,there should be female priests in the Catholic church,there should be female mullahs in the Mosques,Polygamy should be accepted as a barbarian thing in Muslim families,and a Dalailama should be voted to pwer and so should be the Pope.

If you can't make sure of any of these things ,shut up!

U ve pointed out something brilliant :-) keep it up :clap:

But wish to quote some points from ur say ...

>> Faith is always blind.

Not always :-) Faith is a strong belief in a supernatural power ... i agree ... but it also means keeping complete confidence :-) Do u keep confidence on something that is not existing ???? NO ... u shld know it ... u shld feel it ... then u ll accept it .... the same way ... not only ur belief takes u to Faith ... it is something more that ! THE TRUTH ..............
It is sometimes not easily understandable ... but it is not UNEXPLAINED.... we have to find the TRUTH ... it will not come to us ...

We dont keep our hands n the fire first and say i believe only when i experience ... i dont want to have faith on somebody who says that it will be hot when i do that ... tats the difference which we possess between Faith and BLIND SUPERSTITION !

There is a THIN LINE between FAITH and SUPERSTITION ...

We should know the difference :-)

[Sanguine Sridhar]

With all due respect to all who have responded to this thread:

I am a Roman Catholic Syrian Christian born and brought up in Kerala.Many devotees come to our house to get water and other stuff though they don't enter our house,on the way to Sabarimala.

Faith is always blind.There can not be anything scientifically proven when it comes to faith.Then traditions are traditions and when we do away with them[unless they are so discriminatory],thre core of that faith gets damaged.

Muslim women are not allowed in almost all Mosques.Christiuans do not allow women to be priests generally.I have never heard of a female incarnation of Budha.

We all live in a male dominated society.If women should be allowed in Sabarimala,there should be female priests in the Catholic church,there should be female mullahs in the Mosques,Polygamy should be accepted as a barbarian thing in Muslim families,and a Dalailama should be voted to pwer and so should be the Pope.

If you can't make sure of any of these things ,shut up!


Bang!!!! :thumbsup: Excellent!!! No more arguements!! 8-)

[malsi]

From: blahblah on Mon Aug 21 9:25:34 2006. [Full View]
Muslim women are not allowed in almost all Mosques.
We all live in a male dominated society.If women should be allowed in Sabarimala,there should be female priests in the Catholic church,there should be female mullahs in the Mosques,Polygamy should be accepted as a barbarian thing in Muslim families....

.................................................. ..........
Im very sorry blah blah..but i beg to differ..I dont know abt the system in India, but in Malaysia..women are allowed to enter the mosque at anytime..any day...
Islam encourages Monygamy..and Polygamy has been there right from the Prophet's time..
Do you realy know what is exactly mentioned abt Polygamy in the holy book Quran?
unfortunately many people dont know the real reasons of the Prophet practising polygamy and infact I dont deny many muslim men are taking advantage of this system..
and hey come on..personally i feel this system is far much better than having any illicit relationships..

and talking abt female priests in churches..it is clearly proven..scientifically that women's emotions and feelings are sometimes affected by their health conditions..like menstrual, menopause, pregnancy , post pregnancy etc...

taking all these into consideration..i would think males would be better being the priests and mullahs etc..

I am a female..but I am not a female who will fight and argue that we are better than males..I always beleive that God has created us in "two different boxes"..
and we cant run away from the truth that "one cant live without the other..."

[nilavupriyan]

are there bathroom and other facilities where woman need privacy???

do they think men could think only abt god when women come there!

if there is a belief we must follow man...

from periyar to all these persons..they have courage only to bash hindu formalities... :rotfl:

muslims and christians have their own rituals...and noone talks abt it

[bingleguy]

are there bathroom and other facilities where woman need privacy???

do they think men could think only abt god when women come there!

if there is a belief we must follow man...

from periyar to all these persons..they have courage only to bash hindu formalities... :rotfl:

muslims and christians have their own rituals...and noone talks abt it
:-)

[blahblah]

are there bathroom and other facilities where woman need privacy???

do they think men could think only abt god when women come there!

if there is a belief we must follow man...

from periyar to all these persons..they have courage only to bash hindu formalities... :rotfl:

muslims and christians have their own rituals...and noone talks abt it

True,though I don't get into that Periyar part of it!

It is funny how people can overlook or even justify plain arrogance in their own faith and pass comments on other religions.
I know how Hindu devotees will feel if women are allowed in Sabarimala today.It is a tradition followed for centuries.Unless there can be real gender equality in this country,there is no point in just atacking Sabarimala.

[Surya]

With all due respect to all who have responded to this thread:

I am a Roman Catholic Syrian Christian born and brought up in Kerala.Many devotees come to our house to get water and other stuff though they don't enter our house,on the way to Sabarimala.

Faith is always blind.There can not be anything scientifically proven when it comes to faith.Then traditions are traditions and when we do away with them[unless they are so discriminatory],thre core of that faith gets damaged.

Muslim women are not allowed in almost all Mosques.Christiuans do not allow women to be priests generally.I have never heard of a female incarnation of Budha.

We all live in a male dominated society.If women should be allowed in Sabarimala,there should be female priests in the Catholic church,there should be female mullahs in the Mosques,Polygamy should be accepted as a barbarian thing in Muslim families,and a Dalailama should be voted to pwer and so should be the Pope.

If you can't make sure of any of these things ,shut up!

WHOOT WHOOT!!!!!! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :redjump: :redjump: :redjump: BLAH BLAH!! TOO MUCH!!! :clap: :clap: :D :thumbsup:

[Surya]

are there bathroom and other facilities where woman need privacy???

do they think men could think only abt god when women come there!

if there is a belief we must follow man...

from periyar to all these persons..they have courage only to bash hindu formalities... :rotfl:

muslims and christians have their own rituals...and noone talks abt it

:exactly: :clap: :clap: :clap: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: 8-)

[Sanguine Sridhar]

are there bathroom and other facilities where woman need privacy???

do they think men could think only abt god when women come there!

if there is a belief we must follow man...

from periyar to all these persons..they have courage only to bash hindu formalities... :rotfl:

muslims and christians have their own rituals...and noone talks abt it


It is very harsh to pin point Periyar for this alone.If there is no Periyar in South India I dont think that any of the backward classes or SC or ST would have come up in their life! In my opinion Periyar targeted only Hindu religon just because he found lot of illtreating of poor and backward class people just by saying 'Theetu' or other things. Where as Christianity or Islam is not a Indian religon so there will be always some people(Foriegners) to help them whenever there is a need of anything.Just analyse closely you will find what i am mentioning,Point i want to mention here is Periyar is a Godfather of Backward classes and it is wrong to pull him blindly here!!

What Periyar done was accurate! Their followers spoiled everything!

[Badri]

Ok, time to step in.

That will be enough about Periyar. Don't turn this into another for and against Periyar thread.

[nilavupriyan]

are there bathroom and other facilities where woman need privacy???

do they think men could think only abt god when women come there!

if there is a belief we must follow man...

from periyar to all these persons..they have courage only to bash hindu formalities... :rotfl:

muslims and christians have their own rituals...and noone talks abt it


It is very harsh to pin point Periyar for this alone.If there is no Periyar in South India I dont think that any of the backward classes or SC or ST would have come up in their life! In my opinion Periyar targeted only Hindu religon just because he found lot of illtreating of poor and backward class people just by saying 'Theetu' or other things. Where as Christianity or Islam is not a Indian religon so there will be always some people(Foriegners) to help them whenever there is a need of anything.Just analyse closely you will find what i am mentioning,Point i want to mention here is Periyar is a Godfather of Backward classes and it is wrong to pull him blindly here!!

What Periyar done was accurate! Their followers spoiled everything!

periyar is legend ..accepted!...he did a lot to the sc/st people..accepted!


but if his aim is only the upliftment of the downtrodden....i will salute!

but his main aim is "non-believing" god!...he tried to tell people that there is no god...only human!

if he try to "educate" people this way..he must educate bith hindu and muslims....muslimslam paavam illaya! :lol:

ilichavayan hinduthana...thats why he bashed our Gods to prove his theory without having guts to bash muslims

samething happens now...they have filed a petition that "muslim women" faces shouldnt be there on voter card as it insults their customs...the court has accepted to deal with the issue..

but they are filing against the temple rules ...

they are ready to take a case against national issue...

but they wont acept a temple formality!

[bingleguy]

Viki ... :roll: I believe Badri has quoted something ! Lets not bring For or Against Periyar here :-)

[skanthan]

If you can't make sure of any of these things ,shut up!


:lol: :lol2: :rotfl:



BANG!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol2: :rotfl:

[padmanabha]

[tscii:c64da6bb9d]TO KANNANNN
Sabarimala is the abode of Lord Aiyyappa, in the hills above the river Pampa. Sastha as he is also known is a Brahmachari who does not see women in their fertile years. For the devout, the pilgrimage is preceded by 41days penance, celibacy, minimum diet, austerity cum discipline.
Every pilgrim carries an irumudi-a cotton bag, with two compartments, which has on one side, a coconut neatly shaved, and filled with ghee through one of its eyes. On the other things like rice are neatly tied and carried on your head, with out which you cannot climb the sacred 18 steps and thence to thence to the sanctum. The pilgrims called aiyyappas are clad in black. From Thiruvananthapuram it requires five hours, as there is a ghat. Pilgrims bathe in the Pampa, before climbing hill. For the frail ones dolies(reclining chair carried by four people) are available. To keep up with the spirit pilgrims chant “saranam aiyyappa and swamiye aiyyappa” NO one wears slippers. There will e a sea of people your eyes cannot behold. The climbing of 18 steps signifies the shedding of –lust, greed, desire, wrath, intoxication, anger, multiplied by three caused by mind, word or deed (manasa vacha karmana). Then you face the Almighty. You have to be one in the milling crowd.
Aiyyappan has a Muslim companion called Vavar. Pilgrims visit the mosque of Vavar before reaching the abode of Ayyappa- indeed a symbol of tolerance.
On the day of winter solstice, a divine light is seen far away from the sabarimala in the hills beyond and thousands go on this auspicious occasion.

[/tscii:c64da6bb9d]

[kannannn]

Thanks padmanabha, I know most of what you have mentioned. My question was, 'Who was Dharma Shasta and what were his other avatars?'. I asked this question in response to Braandan's remark that Ayyappa was an avatar of Dharma Shasta.

[Sandeep]

The shock wave sent by Shabarimala Devaprashnam has not yet subdued. Actually it is only starting to reveal the many facets of the ugly, money hungry and lustful caucus surrounding the Ayyappa sannidhanam.

After the devaprashnam.

Periya Thanthri and Chinna Thanthri said, "Deva Prashnam wasn’t good... And Ayyappan will reveal the truth".

Devaswom Board Members Said, "Deva Prashnam was great, will go ahead with the findings... and Ayyappan will reveal the truth".

Astrologer who did DevaPrshnam Said, "Everything was perfect, except that I am not a brahmin... And Ayyappan will reveal the truth".

A group of astrologers (who did not get the chance to do the devaprashnam) said, "Devaprashnam was a farce... And Ayyappan will reveal the truth".

Actress said, "I did this that bla bla bla... And Ayyappan will reveal the truth".

After the sex scandal, Chinna Thanthri said, "I went there for the pooja" ( Actually he does this sort of poojas on a regular basis ) ... And he dared to add "Ayyappan will reveal the truth".

Every body else said, "Ayyappan will reveal the truth".

continued...[/tscii:c845eec50c]

[Sandeep]

[tscii:392a8f6fba]At last Ayyappan and Vavar decided to start an Investigation

First Lord Ayyappan tried to enter Chinna Thanthri's mind to find the truth.

But Thanthri’s mind was filled with women, Ayyappan hesitant to enter waited for long in wane. Losing patience, Ayyappa withdrew himself from Thanthri’s mind.

Now he is into the mind of a Devaswam board member.

Ayyappan: "How are the things?"

Member: "Fine thanks ..Busy .. to start the projects.... Rope way.. Buildings ..Construction.. Construction is the key. You know a member have only 3 years. We need to do maximum during the time. Money come from the projects.. money.. projects.. money.. projects..."

Member: "Bye the way you look familiar. But can’t quite remember."

Ayyappan just turning away and disappeared from his mind

Now Ayyappan entered the mind of the Astrologer who did devaprashnam.

Ayyappan: "Is all the stars doing okay?"

Astrologer: "Stars are fine. But it is the people who make all the issues for me."

Ayyappan: "You think you are innocent?"

Astrologer: "Off course, I am! Not only innocent but very efficient one too. See, do you blame a big corporate if they are loyal to their client and give what they want. NO..See .. here the board hired me, I gave them what they want. They are very happy with that. Aren’t they? Then what is the problem. I did justice for my client.. If the thanthri or someone else want something , let them hire me, see I am open."

Ayyappan: "What about the stars. Don’t they suppose to tell the truth?"

Astrologer: "Chey.. Chey.. Don’t make a fool out of yourself sir. Stars always said one thing .. only one thing.. that is... Deepa sthambum mhashcharyam .. Namukkum kittanam MONEY that is it..."

continued ...[/tscii:392a8f6fba]

[Sandeep]

[tscii:88d174ffb0]It was almost morning, Ayyappa decided to enter the mind of a poor guruswamy who visits the sannidhanam every year and brings only a coconut filled with ghee.

There was a fog of confusion and helplessness filled in his mind. Ayyappa entered through the fog, slowly.

On the glimpse of the delightful sight, the guruswamy jumped up from his bed with folded hands, not opening his eyes , out of fear that he might loose the vision of his lord Guruswamy shouted in top of his voice "Swamiyaee saranamayyappa"

Ayyappa: (touching his forehead) "How you been?"

Guruswamy: "Never been better than this one moment, my lord. I have only one to ask , please don’t go away, please stay with me.. please lord..."

Ayyaappa: "I will stay with you. All the time.. With in you.. Look inward.. Well you already knows that.. I will always be with you my dear..."

Ayyappa disappeared into the fog..

continued ...[/tscii:88d174ffb0]

[Sandeep]

[tscii:0802f2a2bf]Ayyappa back in sannidhanam.

Going through the reports from Shabari and Vavar. He stood still. Closed his eyes for a moment.

Vavar could see a clear drop of ghee rolling down Ayyappan’s cheek, or was it a drop of tear? He turned his face away. Vavar have never seen his lord’s eyes wet. He was always the noble, unbeatable, victorious warrior.. Villaly Veeran.. But now they defeated him.. they all joined together... no not defeat... but the pain.. See my lord..

After all he too is a human avatar..

When vavar turned to look Ayyappan again, he found him with his bow and fine arrow. Ayyappan set the bow straight.. Positioned the arrow, then he went into a deep contemplation before sending the arrow facing the dark forest.

His arrow passed through the thick forest, went beyond mountains and rivers and finds a pristine place, in the middle of the virgin forest. A small valley surrounded by mountains.

"Here, this is my place", Ayyappan said.

Away away away away from the lustful caucus, into the thick forest.

Ayyappan sits down in his favorite koormasanam.

A huge leopard started circling him as if to protect the sanctity of the place.

Ayyappan closing his eyes into a deep meditation...

He sits there deep deep deeep deep in the forest, deep in the mind of a seeker, hidden away by the thick forest... deep inside... you don’t even know that he is there.

Now to see him, the seeker has to cross the forest, the thick forests of his own mind. Climb steep mountains of hurdles that stand in front of him, he has to endure the pain of facing his own fear to climb high. But he must.

Once he reaches there, the bhakta has to rise to the level of Ayyappan.

Yes you have to rise to his level.
High up
18 steps high.

If you can do that
And only if you can do that
You will get the dharshan of the lord.

Then the lord will call you by his own name "AYYAPPA"
He will then embrace the Bhaktha
And you will hear the secret, from his holy tongue, in his blissful voice.
The secret of 'Tat Tvam Asi'.[/tscii:0802f2a2bf]

[nirosha sen]

:D Hiya you lot!! Glad to peek into yet another lively and timely debate, I might add!

Been hibernating in the middle of a jungle, therefore unable to come in often. Good to read your posts, keep it up, mates!! :D

[Sandeep]

Nirosha,

We really miss your contributions. Your thoughts always brings a broader view.

So we too "Demand a broader view"

[Braandan]

All these are because of the general mis-conception that women cannot worship Ayyappa. In fact, women of all ages can worship Ayyappa at home. The restriction is only to travel to Sabarimala. Of course the general restrictions a woman has to follow on any worship (Pooja) in Hinduism is there even when she worships Ayyappa (or any other diety) at home. Women, especially motherhood is highly valued in Ayyappa cult. The only person other than a 'Guruswamy' who can perform the 'KettuNira' function for a 'KanniSwamy' is the mother of the Kanniswamy. (KettuNira is the ritual in which the coconuts are filled with ghee and the Irumudi prepared. Guruswamy is an experienced pilgrim while Kanniswamy is a pilgrim aspiring to go to Sabarimala for the first time.) Mother is so important that she is equated with a Guruswamy. Also before sitting for KettuNira and before leaving home to SabariMala it is mandatory to fall at the feet of one's own mother, for every pilgrim. (If mother is no-more somebody equivalent to her).