Does God exist?

[Oldposts]

Topic started by Sindhuja (@ ppp-176-94.bng.vsnl.net.in) on Fri May 31 11:27:08 .




Hello all!I was a theist till abt. 6 months ago when my friend completely convinced me that no "God" actually exists-it's all in the mind.But now,I feel there's something missing in my life-something major-I feel insecure...nothing to cling on to,none to look on...So,I want theists and atheists alike to respond to this....

[Oldposts]

Old responses (http://forumhub.com/expr/17362.22573.11.27.08.html)

[Oldposts]

The carriage is useless without the horse, isn't it, folks? Hahahaha!

[Oldposts]

Geno,

I have responded in the other "Does God Exist?" thread.

A lengthy conversation was held with Pradheep around the date i.e 13/06/03. Watch the lego kid *'s response after this.


:-))

[Oldposts]

Rohit :-)

Thanx much for your obliging me for posting in the other thread!

>>I have caught him on various occasions on his oblivious switching between the “monism” and the “dualism”

This infact is/was the bane of all 'theists' who have come to present their views in this thread. I remember pradheep committing the same blunder and when confronted on this question he too - blushed("these grapes are sour!") and turned and took a hike.

Now its the turn of this RSS warmonger!

good for the thread! :-)

[Oldposts]

Geno,

Thanks!

:-))

[Oldposts]

"I have caught him on various occasions on his oblivious switching between the “monism” and the “dualism”"

Like I said ages ago - too bad you lack the capabality to process new info - if Buddhists believe in any gods, then they believe in a creator god - whether they admit to it or not - because there is no other way to explain the origin of the "other" gods. Why Buddha did not address this question directly is not hard to discern; Buddha, while being a highly enlightened being, also vouched for simplicity; his primary concern was the attainment of Nibbana; this is why he chose to be reborn again (despite having escaped samsara). Regardless, it remains a sign of incompleteness on the part of the Buddhist philosophical system that the origin of the numerous gods they believe in is not specified.

[Oldposts]

One final point: perception of dualities is the whole cause of maya. An atheist cannot comprehend God because of maya; an atheist wants to categorize God here, and science there; when in fact, the purpose of all knowledge is to bring one closer to the inner Atman. Ultimately, the goal is escape from samsara. The goal is the same in Buddhism - one escapes from samsara through Nibbana.

[Oldposts]

Thank you all! But I don't care so much, for if He exists He should care!

[Oldposts]

Atheist champion Rohit is in for a surprise. Looks like his primary supporter is a homo! What a coincidence... an atheist and a homo, the best of friends! Urine meets s-hit; thats the best analogy, if you ask me.

------------

From: Kolathur kuppan (@ algart.org) on: Tue Mar 16 00:56:09 EST 2004





//

From: geno (@ 61.2.225.204) on: Sat Mar 13 17:30:53 EST 2004


this kallar lavade 3-hair can only glorify the assassins of the father of our nation. what more could you expect from the 'kuRRaparambarai' criminals, whose genes are poisoned with murder and dacoity!//


geno aka L.Senthil aka neo_morpheus aka fake MMC aka porno journalist has decided to come out into the open finally it seems.

These casteist remarks only expose the truth behind such anti-hindu campaigners. Good product of Dravidian movement (and ofcourse the neo_jain movement!).

I wish Adinathar, the Jain God gives him some brain to understand the difference between surya , (real)karthikdevan, karu, karthi, Harishkumar and THE REAL(MMC). Everytime I enter this forum and go through the posts, it is hilarious to find him battling some or other thinking that it is the (real)mmc!

I merely defended someone else when I attacked him for making similar casteist remarks earlier. This idiot has deluded himself into thinking that I belong to Kallar caste and has repeatedly abused kallars in his every avatar, be it as the 'jain' or as 'porno journalist' or as 'geno'.

I wish he concentrates on his professional career instead of wasting his time and energy in virtual fights of this forum. Let him devote some time to Vedanayaki too! ;-)

http://forumhub.com/expr/2074.15.35.41.html (http://forumhub.com/expr/2074.15.35.41.html
)

[Oldposts]

Rohit! your rock solid discourse always makes these moth-eaten brained RSS thugs go into a delirium due to frustration! :-))

I pity these creatures:-))

[Oldposts]

Moreover, more than 90% of the world's believer (not atheist!) population do not believe in your frustrating delirium of “Brahman”. They all outright reject everything you say about your deluded beliefs, as they have their own delirious beliefs, entirely incompatible, separate and different from what you are badly suffering from i.e. of “Brahman” “Maya” “Duality”. For details, see my logical proof:

URU (Buddhism - Unreal god, Real cognition, Unreal physical world)
URR (The true base for scientific enquiry- Unreal god, Real cognition, Real physical world)
RRU (Advaita - Real god, Real cognition, Unreal physical world)
RRR (Judaism, Christianity, Islam and other religions - Real god, Real cognition, Real physical world)

The mutual comparisons and deductions among the combinations clearly lead to a solid, logical and concluding proof that only the URR - Unreal God, Real cognition, Real Physical World with space-time and material and nonmaterial world is the only True and Absolute Reality. God of any form and/or function does/can not exist, the “God” is redundant/dispensable.

!! , ?? ;-))

[Oldposts]

For one thing, the atheist who claims science can answer why he/she exists, when the universe was created, etc. is, unwittingly or otherwise, admitting that his/her conclusions about such phenomena take into consideration such error as the instruments used to derive those results are simply not capable of erasing altogether. In other words, the atheist who says, "I exist because science says I do" is also saying, "I exist to an error of 0.9% relative to carbon-dating that places me within this time-frame of evolution... perhaps if this metal wasn't so corrosive, science might verify my existance to within 0.8%!

What a pity... the atheist seeks to give meaning to his existance via pile of rusty metal.

[Oldposts]

>>For one thing, the atheist who claims science can answer why he/she exists, when the universe was created, etc. is, unwittingly or otherwise, admitting that his/her conclusions about such phenomena take into consideration such error as the instruments used to derive those results are simply not capable of erasing altogether. In other words, the atheist who says, "I exist because science says I do" is also saying, "I exist to an error of 0.9% relative to carbon-dating that places me within this time-frame of evolution... perhaps if this metal wasn't so corrosive, science might verify my existance to within 0.8%!

Dear lego kid * seems terribly confused with the meaning of “How” and “Why”!

Let me reiterate, science can answer the “how” question about the physical world! However, no religion or faith could ever answer the “why” question about the creation of the physical world.

Which is exactly what I have been raising time after time, but these hoodwinked believers are interested only in posting their religious gobbledegook. Anyone who has a tiny fraction of his/her brain functioning would clearly raise this question and realise that there is absolutely no logical and/or rational purpose behind all theses heedless, diabolical and wasteful creation of the universe and life, so far known to have evolved only on earth. There are plenty of logical, rational and scientific reasons and evidences, which convincingly indicate that the universe has come into existence uncaused and so has the life.

As far as the uncertainty in measurement is concerned, it never means that the measurement is always going to be in error by the amount of the uncertainty of the measuring equipment or method. If the uncertainty of equipment or method is identified as 99.1%, in reality, all that means is, if one takes sufficiently large number of measurements, the measuring instrument or method, on average, will indicate the measured quantity within 99.9% +/- 0.1 % of the true value of the measured quantity. If a skilled person analyses the measured data, he would soon find that some measurements would have “indicated” values within 99.8% of the true value and some measurements would have “indicated” values that are 100% correct. When produced as histogram, the measured values would generally follow a Gaussian distribution whose mean (average) would be estimated at 99.1% of the “true” value of the measured quantity. Also there can be and there are, more than one ways to repeat the same measurement and boost the confidence level in measurements.

Similarly, the uncertainty in the gage of the earth’s and time taken for humans to evolve, measured by radioactive clocks -there are more than one ways - and carbon dating are no different. Only thing is they have larger error distributions due to contaminating elements, but by no means that indicate humans are only 99% or 99.99% atomic. There is not a shadow of a doubt that life is 100% made out of organic and inorganic materials and there are more than one ways to verify that fact. The delirium of “God”, the false assurance “A”, standing at “zero” and the corresponding Certainty Factor “CF”, which stands close to –1 are of no use and not needed whatsoever for such explanations and/or answers.

It is all together different matter, if our lego kid * unsurprisingly finds 90% of his brain missing and replaced by the Vedic trash of all-inclusive varieties, leaving his human existence to a tiny 10%.

>>What a pity... the atheist seeks to give meaning to his existance via pile of rusty metal.

The more the lego kid * differentiates among carbon, carbon dating, radioactive clocks, metals, corrosion, science, organic and inorganic materials, the more he acknowledges the non-existence of his “Brahman/Atman/God”. From his post, the kid seems to have learnt something about perception, recognition and differentiation of different elements, materials and their makes, which he learnt through science but forgot and now he suddenly remembered after some bad experiences, which he occasionally shares.

The way this kid * behaves and talks, completely immersed in his schizophrenic and delirious beliefs, I feel completely relieved that I am not a believer. I really pity him, as he has foolishly trapped himself in such irrational, illogical and moronic existence. His brain is degenerating at much faster rate than would be expected otherwise. If he continues to degenerate like this, he may soon loose all his remaining human characteristics and turn himself into a full-fledged lunatic moron.

!! , ?? ;-))

[Oldposts]

Correction:

If the uncertainty of equipment or method is identified as 99.9%,

[Oldposts]

Rohit!! i wonder why the admins cant restore al ink to this thread to the miscellaneous section???!

its a mystery :=)

[Oldposts]

Geno,

Because this thread contains too many arguments againts the existence of such "entity" with plenty of concrete logical, religious and philosophical arguments and logical and scientific prrofs/eveidences to let it continue without any valid arguments. Bare delusions are not good enough for defence in such debates.

I am sure you have already figured that out.

:-))

[Oldposts]

Correction:

Because this thread contains too many arguments againts the existence of such "entity" with plenty of concrete logical, religious and philosophical arguments and logical and scientific prrofs/eveidences to let it continue without any valid counter* arguments. Bare delusions are not good enough for defence in such debates.

I am sure you have already figured that out.

:-))

[Oldposts]

What is the big deal? What??? If he exists, then what change it is going to make in your life? Well, Let it be a superstition. Then what change it is going to make in your life? Both atheists and theists are two sides of the same coin. Atheists believe that God does not exist. Theists believe that God do exist. Both are basically beliefs. That simply shows that both are not sure. You believe in something only if you are not sure. You need not believe that you are infront of the Computer. You need not belive that you are reading this. Because, you know. You does not belive in Sun. You does not belive in the Moon. You does not belive in the breeze, in the stars, in the bird. Because you know. You believe in the God because you don't know. If you don't know, please don't believe. Because if you believe you'll never know.

[Oldposts]

Dear "you know",

Do you really believe in what you have just said above? If you don't; I am afraid, you will never know the true reality of nature and the absolution in utter impossibility of such an "entity" of any form or function, conceived and/or postulated by various religions as "God", ever existing. If you realise this reality, there is little else to know about “it” otherwise.

[Oldposts]

I think anti-Vedic atheist champ Rohit is an angry old man. Dear anti-Vedic atheist champ Rohit, don't worry!


When you lay dying on a hospital bed, angry because the family members want to offer prayers, Richard Dawkins will be there to assure you of your future organic existance as bacterial ars-e food, seed fertilizer, and horse manuever. If you are very lucky, you may even end up as a partial C-14 contribution in one of Stephen Hawking's age-of-the universe experiments! Richard Dawkins, of course, will be ready with the genetics mantra, evolution mantra, and all other atheist mantras.....


Richard Dawkins: "Can you believe that relation of yours? Trust in God? What God?!!! Poof!"

Atheist champion Rohit: "This is a precise proof of schizophrenic vedic burros seriously suffering from Approach Avoidance Conflict (AAC)."

Richard Dawkins: "I say! From the bacterias a-r-s-e we came... to the bacterias a-r-s-e we shall return!"

Atheist champion Rohit: "But nevertheless it is quite entertaining to see this psycho-pathetic, self-transformed vedic burro, continually presenting himself as a precise exhibit of his psychotic existence. He unwarily keeps presenting himself as a perfect example of how the inflation in illusory mental activities and higher intensity of mental denials and dissonance results in seriously negative growths of intellectual ability."

Richard Dawkins: "He seems fixated on Shankara, aye. If I might remark, Shankara is completely off the mark with his Advaita. All is Brahman? My laboratory work shows otherwise... human s-h-i-t and chimp s-h-i-t share 99% of the same DNA! Not only this, recent fossil finds confirm humans and chimps once had an ancestor who could s-h-i-t while swinging from tree to tree. If we put s-h-i-t and s-h-i-t and s-h-i-t together, humans are chimps!"

Atheist champion Rohit: "But how do you account for the humans evolving from bacteria"

Richard Dawkins: "Genetic analysis of human s-h-i-t reveals the presence of photosynthetic bacteria, whose ability to synthesize the amino acid s-h-i-t-a-s-e is clear evidence of a phylogenic relationship! My friend, rest in peace, for all is surely s-h-i-t!"

Atheist champion Rohit: "All is s-h-i-t! What a comforting thought! While the vedic clowns, with all this useless talk of shakthi and karma and Brahman, unwarily keep presenting themselves as perfect examples of how the inflation in illusory mental activities and higher intensity of mental denials and dissonance results in seriously negative growths of intellectual ability, I die a satisifed man, assured of the highly rational enyzmatic transformations that will transform me to cow dung and pig s-h-i-t. Hail bacteria!"

Richard Dawkins: Hail bacteria!

Atheist champion Rohit! Hail bacteria!

Steven Hawking: "Hail... (falls off wheelchair).

[Oldposts]

And psycho-pathetic lego kid Star starts to lick Richard Dawkins's and Steven Hawking's bums, thinking "All is Brahman"

!! , ?? ;-))

[Oldposts]

Sounds like this psycho-pathetic vedic burro has been badly bitten by a dog with rabies while trying to escape from the Chicago police. This alcoholic, brainless obese, mindless criminal, psychopath rapist and murder, schizophrenic divorcee and suicidal vedic maniac, has completely cracked under the unbearable pressure of being caught and locked-up in the US prison.

Looks like this rabies infected vedic burro is searching for his runaway angry father, who must have got debilitated by his age old son Star’s moronic behaviour. The moron tries to see his father in all men who he sees mentally much older than his imagined father. This time, it also appears that all his female family members are lying to him and not telling him the truth and what they are up to.

While in search of his runaway father, this psycho-pathetic vedic burro Star seems to keep-up well with his centuries old job of licking shi-tt-ing bums as he strongly believes that "All is Brahman" after all. This time, he seems to have got really lucky to find his favourite shi-tt-ing bums of Richard Dawkins and Steven Hawking.

I must wish this seriously distressed, psycho-pathetic, vedic burro Star good luck for his endless search of his runaway angry father.

Mean while; let him enjoy licking his favourite shi-tt-ing bums, reassuring him in his belief of “All is Brahman”.

!! , ?? ;-))

[Oldposts]

Yes God does exists
that should not be questioned
I am a student from 18yrs and i can challange you to prove that GOD really exists

<a name="last"></a>

[geno]

This was one legend of a thread - known for its wide ranging discussion regarding the metaphysics and implications of the concept of God and about the "illusion" of such a conceptual divine entity. :)

I'm happy that in the new hub - this thread would sure attract more people to participate and enthrall us :)

[geno]

Another huge blow has been dealt to the "creationists" and the "believers", by the discovery of a NEW species of Hominids, called "Homo Florensis" :

http://www.nature.com/news/2004/041025/full/041025-2.html

http://www.corante.com/loom/archives/026745.html


As more and more evidences of = diverse species of the "Homo" hominids are discovered, the creation theory goes bust!! :D

Darwin, that old rascal - was after all - basically damn right!!!

:D :D :D

Read some interesting discussions on this find in Internet infidels forum here:

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=103284&page=2&pp=25

[Bdolf Hilter]

XYZ

[geno]

Hitler disproved darwin - Nazis did not succeed mastering other races. All the mega races or castes lose at last :!: History repeats itself.

hmmm!! That's a profoundly and innovatively new way of looking at this issue!

Perhaps that may also explain why Homo neanderthals were wiped out in the height of their "evolutionary period"?

Well! it goes to prove that pepole or races who think they can forever "prevail" might just think again! :)

[Bdolf Hilter]

XYZ

[geno]

Perhaps that may also explain why Homo neanderthals were wiped out in the height of their "evolutionary period"?


In case of Homo neanderthalensis Darwin was right. The post-europeans snuff out the pre-europeans. Darwin was a post-european. :lol:

LOL!! :D that was a good one bdolf!

Is that why the "european cousins" across the atlantic are trying to silence the euopean voice on theworld stage? :wink: :wink: :wink:

I mean isnt this some sort of precursor before the "big cousin" trying to usurp the "old europe" with their Post-Cold war arrogance? :wink: :wink: :wink:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[davie]

WOW FINALLY THE MOST INTERESTING TOPIC IS HERE
Nope GOD DOES NOT EXIST

humans introduced the concept of GOD. still the world is filled with more than 99% of dumb humans who believe in god. Wat a dumb world!!! TRUTH IS WEIRD MOST OF THE TIME. i come up with weird conclusions but they are true.

Scientific phenomenon is a true process. Example, mechanics, natural phenomenon are alll true. Universe formed only because of this natural phenomenon. I mean matter can be formed from nothing.
From nothing we are something today. so we are all nothing at some other day.

Mass or matter is just a accumulation of nothing all governed by scientific phenomenon.

I will accept that this scientific phenomenon is god. :idea: but there is no use in worshiping this scientific phenomenon eventhough it governs our dailyactivities and of the universe. Men (even in stone ages) feared for this scientific phenomenon. so he worshipped fire, rain clouds, thunder ( even hinduism does this :D )
if u ignore all these and say atman and blah blah ur fooling urself.
humans are dumb they introduce all concepts like gods, caste, etc.
buddha got enlightened. so he did not say that god existed.
just get enlightened guys.So, no need to worship any god. but we need to understand god( phenomenon) and try to govern or control it. And i need some decent arguments opposing or supporting my posting. Atleast no one is gona fight for this topic like people do in the old forum for some other interesting topics :lol:
and believe me::: i swear to god. If ancient people who was responsible for introducing concept of god were as good in science to the present day standards, then damn sure they would not have introduced the concept of god and worshipped agni or sun or some crazy things. I also bet you in the after 500 years there WILL BE NO HUMAN BEING ON EARTH WHO WILL BELIEVE IN GOD.
Science will be very very very veryvery very very very advanced

[mmcholan]

test

[nirosha sen]

I do believe in some divine intervention that governs our life in some way. But I have to surrender to the concept that whatever Buddha saw, God was not in it!!

We have this high-fallutin notion, that we alone are God's chosen ones and hence we are privy to his attention! I do not think for as long as we're trapped in a karmic cycle, we ever meet God. It's just Birth - Life - Death. And we are under no obligation to always expect human life either!!

So for me, God is the goodness that resides in each of us!

[Bdolf Hilter]

XYZ

[geno]

I do believe in some divine intervention that governs our life in some way.

okay!! you are getting somewhere! :)


We have this high-fallutin notion, that we alone are God's chosen ones and hence we are privy to his attention!

Well i am with you on this one! :)


I do not think for as long as we're trapped in a karmic cycle, we ever meet God. It's just Birth - Life - Death. And we are under no obligation to always expect human life either!!

oops!! hmmm! "karmic cycle"??!


So for me, God is the goodness that resides in each of us!

cool 8)

Nirosha!! You are a believer it seems! But it also looks like you want to have the attitude of an agnostic!

Nevertheless, Your last statement pretty much reflects your view on the concept of god and im in peace with that :)

[geno]

WOW FINALLY THE MOST INTERESTING TOPIC IS HERE
Nope GOD DOES NOT EXIST

humans introduced the concept of GOD.

davie! welcome to this thread!

You have some interesting things to say! Continue your participation here :)


And i need some decent arguments opposing or supporting my posting.

I urge you to go to the 1st page of this thread, and there just after the first beginning post of this thread - you would see a link "Old responses".

Please go thru the old responses pages, where you'd see a lot of ppl's posts discussing this issue threadbare. Especially a guy named "Rohit" - he's kinda a legend in the old forumhub! you'll like his posts! :)

[Sandeep]

I used to read similar topics in the old hub. With some guys giving mathematical equations to show that god doesnot exist.

Then some saying God is created by man. Well everything we say we know is man made. Maths which is said to be the science of sciences is also man made only. If you can prove Gods existance through maths/science then God will be nothing more than a equation or a chemical compound.

So I dont think god can be proved he can only be felt.

The basis of human existance is on the consept of Justice. What does a ordinary man think when bad comes on him "I am not a bad person so ultimately good will happen to me". If life was nothing but a scientific evolution then where is "hope" (what will you hope that some scientific equation will change).

We all talk so great about science but isnt it true that 90% of all scientific theories have been proven wrong by a newer scientific theory. This reminds me of the CBSC 8th std test book. First page one theory about atom (Bhor theory). Second page a new theory proving that what all the science teacher taught on the first page was wrong. Same repeated for almost 6 pages. Once my pre-university lecturer in chemistry told me whatever you learn here when you go for graduation you will find wrong.

Science is nothing but one HUMAN way of explanning things. Consept of GOD is another way. You can prove one wrong with the other and still find unexplaned mysteries

[Surya]

WOW! :o Excellent Post Sandeep! :D

[Observer]

I used to read similar topics in the old hub. With some guys giving mathematical equations to show that god doesnot exist.

Then some saying God is created by man. Well everything we say we know is man made. Maths which is said to be the science of sciences is also man made only. If you can prove Gods existance through maths/science then God will be nothing more than a equation or a chemical compound.

So I dont think god can be proved he can only be felt.

The basis of human existance is on the consept of Justice. What does a ordinary man think when bad comes on him "I am not a bad person so ultimately good will happen to me". If life was nothing but a scientific evolution then where is "hope" (what will you hope that some scientific equation will change).

We all talk so great about science but isnt it true that 90% of all scientific theories have been proven wrong by a newer scientific theory. This reminds me of the CBSC 8th std test book. First page one theory about atom (Bhor theory). Second page a new theory proving that what all the science teacher taught on the first page was wrong. Same repeated for almost 6 pages. Once my pre-university lecturer in chemistry told me whatever you learn here when you go for graduation you will find wrong.

Science is nothing but one HUMAN way of explanning things. Consept of GOD is another way. You can prove one wrong with the other and still find unexplaned mysteries

[mmcholan]

I second surya!!

[mellon]

[quote=Sandeep]

We all talk so great about science but isnt it true that 90% of all scientific theories have been proven wrong by a newer scientific theory. This reminds me of the CBSC 8th std test book. First page one theory about atom (Bhor theory). Second page a new theory proving that what all the science teacher taught on the first page was wrong. Same repeated for almost 6 pages. Once my pre-university lecturer in chemistry told me whatever you learn here when you go for graduation you will find wrong.

Theory is not EVERYTHING in science and theories are very little part and mostly speculation based on some evidences. If I were you I would rather take the latest theory instead of confusing everybody with your MISUNDERSTANDINGS or poor understandings.

Check this out. Earth was proposed to be FLAT (which was a theory) and now you know it has been proved SPHERICAL in the new thoeory. I hope you are not challenging that theory of world being spherical as well just like your silly-attack on Bohr's theory in order to PROVE your GOd's existence?

Why dont you attack on, *the double helical structure of DNA and hexagoanal shape of benzene* just like you did on some theories?

And tell me now *Are you saying such scientific inventions will also be DISPROVED* in the future???


Science is nothing but one HUMAN way of explanning things.

:roll: GOD is nothing but human "inventions" of explaining things as well. Different religions are different theories if you dont know. Please get that too :roll:

8) The major difference is scientists dont KILL each other but the GOD worshipers do in the event of proving their theory is right 8)

People hate religion and god and its creators because "human life" is cheaper in religious people cruel judgment as they think their theory is better than others . There was honest man living in TN called Shankarraman, lately he had been brutally murdered by his own people as per the God's will or his worshiper's will. Because human life is cheap in man-created God's will :cry:

[geno]

I fully second Mellon! :D

Sandeep!

Thanx for writing here! :)

Please continue to write here and let's ignore any religiously loaded breast-beaters who try to create trouble here! :)

When you say:


"Science is nothing but one HUMAN way of explanning things. Consept of GOD is another way."

So do you agree that the "concept of GOD" was a HUMAN invention? or rather "GOD" is something that the man "created" in order to "placate" agitated persons from not "spilling the beans" on a decadent social setup, and to just plain mind control a group of people with ulterior motives? :)


You can prove one wrong with the other and still find unexplaned mysteries

There would always be "Unexplained Mysteries" Sandeep - for the "mankind" as we know it to be!

It stems from the fact that we keep thinking that we are "speacially created" by a creator - and so during and over a period of time we would Lord over all the 'space' - but maybe a "better species" might evolve which will have a 'lot lesser" - "unexplained mysteries" to deal with - than Homo sapiens now have to grapple with :)

But existence of - "NATURAL unexplained mysteries" doesnt automatically justify adding an - "ARTIFICIAL unexplained mystery" - by us...no??!! :)

It neither serves the purpose to "solve" the unexplained mysteries in front of us nor does it make life any simpler. It just gives you an escape route - just like how the dope does! :lol:

Please continue to write more! Its better to share than bottle it all up!!
aint it?? :)

[Sandeep]

Theory is not EVERYTHING in science and theories are very little part and mostly speculation based on some evidences.

So 'foundation' is not everything in 'house'. You are calling theory "speculation" :?

Definition of theory - a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world; an organized system of accepted knowledge that applies in a variety of circumstances to explain a specific set of phenomena; "theories can incorporate facts and laws and tested hypotheses"; "true in fact and theory"


If I were you I would rather take the latest theory instead of confusing everybody with your MISUNDERSTANDINGS or poor understandings.

Whats the option we have to accept the latest theory as long as some one proves it wrong (unless we ourselves are scientists)


your silly-attack on Bohr's theory in order to PROVE your GOd's existence?

Who am I to attack Bohr's atom theory. I only said it is proved wrong by scientists who came after him. The latest theory accepted is quantum theory by Einstein. Then didnt i say clearly that I cannot prove God's existence


Why dont you attack on, *the double helical structure of DNA and hexagoanal shape of benzene* just like you did on some theories? And tell me now *Are you saying such scientific inventions will also be DISPROVED* in the future???

I am not disproving these theories. But future studies by scientists may prove this wrong. After all that is the beauty of science.



GOD is nothing but human "inventions" of explaining things as well. Different religions are different theories if you dont know. Please get that too :roll:

8) The major difference is scientists dont KILL each other but the GOD worshipers do in the event of proving their theory is right 8)

People hate religion and god and its creators because "human life" is cheaper in religious people cruel judgment as they think their theory is better than others . There was honest man living in TN called Shankarraman, lately he had been brutally murdered by his own people as per the God's will or his worshiper's will. Because human life is cheap in man-created God's will :cry:

When will you start distinguishing between Superstition, Religion and God. I am not supporting any religious fanatic.

[Sandeep]

When I wrote here i had thought that people who oppose god here actually do that because of thier belief and love for science.

But to my disappointment it seems people want to take side of science only because of their hate for "consept of GOD" :(

I admire the Scientists who never accept anything without questioning. But I feel the so called antheist (may not be all) are as blind about science as religious fanatics are of god

[geno]

Sandeep,

you had earlier said:


The basis of human existance is on the consept of Justice. What does a ordinary man think when bad comes on him "I am not a bad person so ultimately good will happen to me".

Do you see that you are actually trying to talk the language of "Karma" here?!!!

It means "pre defined" or "pre ordained"!!

So where is the hope?? if your whole life is just a "programmed series of events"??

Do you get my point? :)

You have to clarify this becoz your views seem self-contradictory here :)


and you also said:


If life was nothing but a scientific evolution then where is "hope" (what will you hope that some scientific equation will change).

Sandeep! "evolution" is about "natural selection"! Where do you get any "equation" for "natural selection laws"??!!

You are basically confusing and intermingling widely different concepts and "cut & pasting" them to suit your opinion :)

Plz clarify :)

And an important point:

You said :


I admire the Scientists who never accept anything without questioning. But I feel the so called antheist (may not be all) are as blind about science as religious fanatics are of god

Tell me how many "atheists" have bombed your town?

or how many "atheists" have killed a million to please their god??

or how many "atheists" destroyed a building on fantastical claims of legacy?

or how "atheists" many justify "murder" in the name of their belief???

Please contemplate before you generalize. Thanx :)

[Sandeep]

Do you see that you are actually trying to talk the language of "Karma" here?!!!

It means "pre defined" or "pre ordained"!!


"Karma" doesnot mean predefined. "Karma" is every action that brings you knowledge (Karma yoga by Vivekananda). And where is this knowledge it inside us. We are not "inventing" anything we are only discovering. That is exactly what scientists are also doing. That may explain my statement of "hope". I dont believe in fate. Our future changes according to our deeds(Karma)


You are basically confusing and intermingling widely different concepts and "cut & pasting" them to suit your opinion

Yes I was mentioning three different, but non condradicting consepts. Sorry if I confused.

1) Gods existance cannot be proved. Because it is something over and above our rules of science/maths.
2) If life/world/nature is nothing but a scientific experiment of mammoth proposion then where is no "hope". Because "morality"(Justice,Right/Wrong,Good/Bad) is not explained by science but yes it is by "consept of God"
3) Science/Maths in itself is error prone. So blind devosion to science is wrong. Be causious "science of the day" have been proven wrong later

[mellon]

But to my disappointment it seems people want to take side of science only because of their hate for "consept of GOD"

:roll: I think this is SANDEEP'S THEORY which can easily be proved wrong. :roll:

You did not listen what I said, there was a MAN called Shankar Raman was brutally murdered. India is going through a Bandh at the expense of finding out the murderer. Any human being can understand the LOSS of HEAD of a FAMILY is unbearable but the banth is not for the VICTIM and it is for the "DEFENDENT" who can very well be GUILTY.

If it is not carried out by religious fanatics, then by WHOM ????

IGNORANT BRUTES???

[Observer]

I do not know why the atheists try to use science to disprove the existance of God. Science can neither deny nor confirm the existance of God. The opposite case, however, is not as clear-cut. Many religious texts bear interesting similarities to scientific ideas. Karma, for example, might correspond to Newton's Third Law: for every action, there is an equal but opposite reaction. The Hindu says, "All is Brahman"... while the physicist will search for an indestructible subatomic particle out of which the other atomic particles arose. The Hindu speaks of yugas and avataras of Vishnu; the scientist speaks of evolution, be it during the Cambrian period or Ice Age. There are many other parallels.

[Bdolf Hilter]

Newton's Second Law: for every action, there is an equal but opposite reaction.

Now it is cristal clear why I am roaming through this forum.
A very good excuse for my blessings to the opposite side. :lol:
I am eagerly waiting. With the good support of my Admins and Mods I'll keep this forum away from the Indian Astrocats.

[Observer]

Bdolf: I was referring to the Third Law, not the second. Newton was a great thinker - and a god-believer.

[Bdolf Hilter]

Bdolf: I was referring to the Third Law, not the second. Newton was a great thinker - and a god-believer.

Newton was a great thinker? Hmmh, let him be.
a god believer - why did he not think of apples jumping from the bottom to the tree branch. I think he already knew that the almighty is not at all powerfull, he can only make things fall.
I am a great drinker, the problem is it is a bit expensive. :lol:

[Bdolf Hilter]

God does not exist.

why?

Because I have decided to leave this forum. All my postings are my own thoughts and not the property of forum hub! I only wonder if the admins and mods understand it.

I have started deleting all my posts older than 17.nov. NOw you admins and mods know for sure the meaning of humour!

[Sandeep]

But to my disappointment it seems people want to take side of science only because of their hate for "consept of GOD"

:roll: I think this is SANDEEP'S THEORY which can easily be proved wrong. :roll:



No it is not my THEORY its only my opinion (because theory has to be proved)

But if I ever need to prove i will sure quote you :lol: Please do co-operate then

[Sandeep]

You did not listen what I said, there was a MAN called Shankar Raman was brutally murdered. India is going through a Bandh at the expense of finding out the murderer. Any human being can understand the LOSS of HEAD of a FAMILY is unbearable but the banth is not for the VICTIM and it is for the "DEFENDENT" who can very well be GUILTY.

If it is not carried out by religious fanatics, then by WHOM ????

IGNORANT BRUTES???

I think i replied to this. We need to classify between Religious fanatics, Superstitions and God. The first should be fought againt, second should be studied and explained.

But just because someone kill or looted dont blame everybody who believes in god.

[mellon]

But just because someone kill or looted dont blame everybody who believes in god.

:roll: Yeah, I should only BLAME the Atheists and nonbelievers for the Shankar Raman's loss and for the "genuine banth" to save the son of the GOD. It is alll the nonbelievers' fault. Is that right? :roll:

[ruth premi]

God Is Great... All The Time!

[davie]

Well eventhough there is no god, let people continue to believe in god. coz if people know that there is no god then crimes will increase. So, let us stick on to the concept called god

[Shekhar]

Well eventhough there is no god, let people continue to believe in god. coz if people know that there is no god then crimes will increase. So, let us stick on to the concept called god


davie,

More blood has been shed in this world in the name of God than in the name of any thing else :(

[geno]

Do you see that you are actually trying to talk the language of "Karma" here?!!!

It means "pre defined" or "pre ordained"!!


"Karma" doesnot mean predefined. "Karma" is every action that brings you knowledge (Karma yoga by Vivekananda).

And where is this knowledge it inside us. We are not "inventing" anything we are only discovering. That is exactly what scientists are also doing.

That may explain my statement of "hope". I dont believe in fate. Our future changes according to our deeds(Karma)

Sandeep,

Here are 2 definitions given for "karma" as a religious concept:

1) karma n. Buddhism & Hinduism person's actions in previous lives, believed to decide his or her fate in future existences. [Sanskrit, = action, fate]

2) karma n. 1. Hinduism & Buddhism. The total effect of a person's actions and conduct during the successive phases of the person's existence, regarded as determining the person's destiny. 2. Fate; destiny. 3. Informal. A distinctive aura, atmosphere, or feeling: There's bad karma around the house today. [Sanskrit, deed, karma.] - kar-mic adj.

Both speak of "fate" and "destiny"!!

You talk of "Cause and effect" as "Karma" isnt it?

Fine! so where is the "God" in your scheme of things?

If your life is completely in your hands ( as implied by your understanding of Karma) why would you need to hang by the legs of a god?!

This is what i meant that your "complex" projection of God is self-contradictory!

And there is another flip side to it.

Supposing you get Murdered! so should the police wash off their hands that it is your karma and hence you died? :wink: :)

Still you are not clearly articluating - why the "absence of a God" would affect a person's "Hopes and Dreams" in his natural life???

And if a person is brutally murdered by a team of hit-men inside a temple - is it "Karma" at play??

And if someone goes to Jail & to police custody - is it his Karma at play?

How would you approach these complex situations - using your version of Karma? :)

And please lucidly explain why "Hopes and dreams" - may not be possible virtues for "Godless" people! :)




1) Gods existance cannot be proved. Because it is something over and above our rules of science/maths.

You mean to say - it is an yet-to-be-explained-phenomenon isnt it? :)

How can you be so sure that - this "feeling of divinity" can't be explained sufficiently at a future date - with full psychological and psychoanalytical mapping of this "divinity feeling brain map"???

I mean - this entire concept of God is just like the non-existent and conceptually infinite-looping "Maya" of the advaitins!!

The premise and the inetrpretation (of this concept) - are both subject to the whimsical fantasies of a "chosen few" - who arbitrarily seek to "ratify" it as a "Valid phenomenon" - dont you think so?

And do you make a distinction between "religion" and "God"??

if you do - how far are you willing to debunk religion?



2) If life/world/nature is nothing but a scientific experiment of mammoth proposion then where is no "hope". Because "morality"(Justice,Right/Wrong,Good/Bad) is not explained by science but yes it is by "consept of God"

Thats disappointing sandeep!

What you try to say here - are "ethics" which are generally laid down by Homo sapiens when they found that its far more efficient to Live and prosper and produce - when you folow civic rules which later became "civilisation".

"Concept of God" did not mould any ancient civilisations - rather civilisations "invented" Gods later to "Mind control" and put on leash the subjects - by the rulers!

I'll tell you an example:

In southern districts of thamizhnaadu - there are many villages which are steeped in archaic socio-religious practices.

There is a particluar group of villages - which practice what seems to be a shuddering Monstrosity in the name of religious practices.

All children under age 8 or so, belonging to these vilages - are subjected to a ritual every year. In the premises of the village deity's temple - many pits are created (as many pits as there are the number of childre who undergo this ritual).

The children are wrapped in yeallow cloth and lowered into these pits - and the pits are "closed" - yes closed for a certain amount of time - at the end of which they are taken out.

This is called "kuzhi irakkuthal" in thamizh. It is done to please the vilage deity and ward of evil from these villages!

* If you say this is just superstition - try telling this to those villagers - you would be immediately branded an atheist - by them!!

For them this is Godliness - this is religion - and this is their belief!!

So God, belief and religion - can be projected to be different things - but ultimately - the believers can never stop barbarism and utter chaos orchestrated in the name of god.

You can't wash off your hands from this "Occupational evil hazard" of God!!! :lol:


3) Science/Maths in itself is error prone. So blind devosion to science is wrong. Be causious "science of the day" have been proven wrong later

Sandeep!! The "God" of one set of people - constantly try to prove that the "God" of another set of people is false, inferior, devilish, infidel and what not???

The followers of one "God" try to genocide the followers of another "God"!! and sometimes even succeed - perhaps the "defeated" God has "bad Karma" too?!!!! :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Please always remember this:

Those who say "There is no god" never killed believers or destroyed faith-places like temples, mosques or churches or pagodas or monastries.

But HISTORY is replete with umpteen, multitude of documented instances whence - believers of a "particular GOD" destroyed and desecrated the believers of other "Gods" and their worship places! :lol:

This indefatigable truthshould be - mulled over, contemplated, brooded, considered, reflected, weighed, pondered, mused, meditated, cerebrated, cogitated, deliberated, ruminated - in exhaustive length - by the "believers" of GOD. :)

[geno]

Well eventhough there is no god, let people continue to believe in god. coz if people know that there is no god then crimes will increase. So, let us stick on to the concept called god

davie,

More blood has been shed in this world in the name of God than in the name of any thing else :(

Shekar!!!

Excellent point! and as i have noted previously it is an irrefutable truth - that "GOD" has KILLED more Homo Sapiens - than all the Doctors of this world, thru the ages, put together has ever killed!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

But i think Davie - clearly implies that - "God" is an invention of humans - and goes on to sarcastically say that "concept of god" helps in Mind-controlling the masses!! - which is nothing but a "left-handed compliment" to the "concept of God"!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[*]

geno, I really dont have much time to post. But hey, i was going through pictures of the incident you quoted. Just see the sad faces of these innocent kids in this pic :(

http://www.greatestcities.com/users/cbray5003/Asia/India/Tamil_Nadu_State/

Really sad and innocent faces. Have our perversions really grown to the point of using children for our idiotic beliefs?

I wish Veerappan were alive to punish such perpetrators!

[davie]

lol. god never killed anyone. love is god. god lives in us.

[Observer]

Atheism has no place in human history. All the great civilizations of the world were God-believing. 99.9% of the greatest thinkers in the world were God-believing. The atheists who rot on this forum do just that - rot. History moves on without them.

[Querida]

it's funny how one can be an atheist but still find oneself talking of God...whatever you say you are talking of Him...and is that not enough....? :wink:

but hell im the worst kind...kind of devil's advocate...im an agnostic....as in i believe in a higher entity whatever, whoever, however it is....i just dont like the system is which religion is ruled by...the house of worship a long time ago became a house of blatant business and blasphemy is no where near to the sin of misleading true believers...there is something beautiful in how believers can find solace, happiness, peace in belief however corrupt the 'controllers' of this belief may be....

[Shekhar]

Atheism has no place in human history. All the great civilizations of the world were God-believing. 99.9% of the greatest thinkers in the world were God-believing. The atheists who rot on this forum do just that - rot. History moves on without them.
Hi observer,

I am an atheist and I am completely at peace with myself. It has made my life that much more simple, in the way that I believe in myself and depend upon myself to get on with life. I have no hostility with believers. Each one to his belief. It is his life. How he manages is his business.
But why are you so angry?!! You get angry when you are unsure and weak. Let variant views prevail, for the good of the world.

Btw, some of the greatest intellectuals are atheists, starting from Burtrand Russell, to EM Forster to Karl Marx to Ayn Rand!!

If you and and Querida still think that I am going to hell for my non belief, just imagine whom all I am going to meet there!! Definitely, Helen of Troy, Cleopatra, Madonna, Sharon Stone..... May be Urmila , Shilpa Shetty and Bipasha Basu as well...Ah! just to think of it :D You people are sure going to miss Hell!!! :D

[Bdolf Hilter]

Atheism has no place in human history. All the great civilizations of the world were God-believing. 99.9% of the greatest thinkers in the world were God-believing. The atheists who rot on this forum do just that - rot. History moves on without them.

Yes you are right: they WERE believers. But if they could tell you now a story about god they'll for sure tell you: There is nothing or noone to talk about. Believe me instead of your 99.9 % god believers like 4x. Sai Baba. And if you say he was not a great thinker then you disobey your God(s). If you want me to make the rest of 99.8% public go on with YOUR observings! I'll help you to understand the same.

Take away your cooling glasses and become a cool thinker. Newton observed the apples falling but you should first see that you are already on the ground. Otherwise stay away and be just an observer. 8)

Sorry folks, I could not withstand somuch obeservations. This guy had been a poor nose in the old forum and comming here to observe and get his nose once again rearranged.

[geno]

Atheism has no place in human history. All the great civilizations of the world were God-believing. 99.9% of the greatest thinkers in the world were God-believing. The atheists who rot on this forum do just that - rot. History moves on without them.

But why are you so angry?!! You get angry when you are unsure and weak. Let variant views prevail, for the good of the world.

Btw, some of the greatest intellectuals are atheists, starting from Burtrand Russell, to EM Forster to Karl Marx to Ayn Rand!!

If you and and Querida still think that I am going to hell for my non belief, just imagine whom all I am going to meet there!! Definitely, Helen of Troy, Cleopatra, Madonna, Sharon Stone..... May be Urmila , Shilpa Shetty and Bipasha Basu as well...Ah! just to think of it :D You people are sure going to miss Hell!!! :D

oooohh boyyyy!!!!

Shekhar!! :) take me to hell with you!! am all for hell!!

I won't miss this hell you are promising for heavens!!! :wink: :lol:

to hell ye!! am riding right away!! :P :lol: :lol:

[geno]

Really sad and innocent faces. Have our perversions really grown to the point of using children for our idiotic beliefs?

I wish Veerappan were alive to punish such perpetrators!

LOL @ *

yeah!! I only wish that Veerappan returns from "hell" to punish these heartless people!! :wink: :lol: :lol:

[geno]

bdolf!!

Your "apples jumping up the tree" take was hilarious man!!! :lol: :lol:

[Sandeep]

I am an atheist and I am completely at peace with myself. It has made my life that much more simple, in the way that I believe in myself and depend upon myself to get on with life. I have no hostility with believers. Each one to his belief. It is his life. How he manages is his business.


Great attitude.

I believe in God and you dont. Niether of us are bad becoz of that.

But I have a bad news for you. You are not going to hell. :lol:

[davie]

there is no hell. and god is a nice concept which makes us good human beings.

[Querida]

hey Shekhar....when did i say non-believers will go to hell...I never said such a thing!?! :? I may be undecided but im for sure not going to condemn you to your version of hell....i'm not that nice! :twisted: I don't even believe in hell....so if i did say such a thing...then buddy you ain't going no where.... :twisted: :D :D :D

[davie]

god never killed anyone. love is god. god lives in us. :roll: :roll: :roll:.

[Querida]

someone explain to me why one can be punished in the present life for something they have done in a previous life when they have no clue in their present life what that error was? :? :? :?

[Roshan]

If you and and Querida still think that I am going to hell for my non belief, just imagine whom all I am going to meet there!! Definitely, Helen of Troy, Cleopatra, Madonna, Sharon Stone..... May be Urmila , Shilpa Shetty and Bipasha Basu as well...Ah! just to think of it :D You people are sure going to miss Hell!!! :D

hahaha Shekhar... But I feel that the hell would be a more interesting place with you and your humour than with Urmila and Bipasha :lol:


Newton observed the apples falling but you should first see that you are already on the ground.

LOL@Bdolf!! :lol: :lol:


But I have a bad news for you. You are not going to hell.

Yeah!! Bad news for both Shekhar and geno :lol:

[Roshan]

Shekhar,

NOV badly needs your support in 'A joke per day......' thread :lol:

[Sandeep]

someone explain to me why one can be punished in the present life for something they have done in a previous life when they have no clue in their present life what that error was? :? :? :?

Sometimes you do so much bad things that God is forced to extent the punishment to next life :lol:

But think of this a evil guy hurts a good guy. So what god does , he switches their character/nature in their next life. So see god is satisfied since he made all equal :lol: :lol:

[davie]

anyone can make a believer in god to become a non believer in god.
but is it possible for some to convert a non beliver to a believer??

[Querida]

sure why not Davie? :D
if there is a way to disbelieve then there is a way to believe...it is only impossible to unmake something....have you read "The Life of Pi" supposedly it's supposed to make an atheist believe in God again" rather i found that the book was just a very interesting read with a persona i could relate too... :roll:

[davie]

lol
what if i read life of pi and still rebuke the arguments made in life of pi.
and convert the author of life of pi to an atheist

[Querida]

hey! why that is not a bad idea at all...actually davie i said it was possible i didn't say that i could do it or that reading this would do it actually i strongly disagree that this book even does such a thing...but heck if you can find it and read...you may accomplish your task or just have a good adventurous read :)

[Devilish]

boring!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[davie]

devilish
could u pls tell me what topic is interesting for you.
sex or anthropology or what??
tell me ur interesting topic
or u can also create a new thread.

[xlntbarani]

Hai all

I am new to the hub

When surfing all the topics.. I found this topic...

Yes..

The doubt of you is certainly right one...

I hope so... it was not informed to you...

so only you have raised this question....

On searching him....

For just 30 years back from this day....

He settled with me...

As he found me as a suitable person for him...

He was with me still then....

So, I tell that your question is right...

But dont search him...

For another part of my life....

He wont come...

To see you, to hear you, to forgive and for anything...

So, I tell you to...

Lookafter your own problems and solve it...

Ok...

Bye guys and gals...

What!..

I dont hear... you

A little... louder...

em.... em.....

Askku Pusukku

I wont give my address....

Then you will build a Temple there...

and he may run out ...

Looking for a new place....

Leaving a stone there as his representation....

so dont follow me

Bye...

Take care - of you

:)

[ruth premi]

anyone can make a believer in god to become a non believer in god.
but is it possible for some to convert a non beliver to a believer??


hahahahahahahahahahah

As long as i know... there is nothing god can't do! If God thinks God wants you to believe in God.. then God would make you in to a believer from being non believer!

anyway...i would not know how God thinks... no close encounters or close death experiences all! Just blindly believe in GOds existence... Every on eshould have a believe.. some of our believes are in ourselves, our parents, our strenghts, our mind, our intelligents..... but all these believe are meant to be gone one day with us... i do not know where but one believe would still be here after our death! A believe that has been there for a long time .. specialy before my time and my great gran parents time.. it has been so far prooven nothing wrong... everything is ok so far of course... there has been some mishaps... but i guess... if its worked for all before me in believing the existence of god then why not me... its preety logic to me.... see.... everyone gets married but there are some who does not get married wither becoz of kadal tolzhvi or no wrote match or just scared to commitment! the things is... they do know about marriage and they seen marriages around them and sort of wondered how it feels but never would they change their mind about it!

My conclusion is a nonbeliever is similar to a person who is refusing marriage! just needs to know too many many things! Just get this! Life is a gamble whether u beliee or not so why not just believe and spare ur time of research maybe u could use the time for something better!

For god exist in a person who thinks of him more! specialy the non-believers! they spend too much of their time trying to proove the non existence of god by thinking of God more! weird isn't it...

Like the believer (me) probably think of god 3 times a day maximum but the ones who are fighting for his non existence waster ample of their time arguying the existence and by the look of it almost 24 hours god is in their mind! heheheheheheh weird!

In fact this forum is proven! look at the amount of time u have spent in think of god! who ever he is!

[Querida]

what is this reverse psychology you are pulling xlntb? you say do not follow yet beckon...shame on you :P :D

[mandangi]

I believe that god exists. If god do not exist 90% of people would committ sins.

[blahblah]

Mandangi,I too believe God exists 8) .Still 100% people sin :lol: .Ya,that's my opinion :lol: :wink: .

[davie]

Mandangi,I too believe God exists 8) .Still 100% people sin :lol: .Ya,that's my opinion :lol: :wink: .
whATT

[clueman]

Ruth,

There are believers who try to change others' belief and spend(invest?) a lot of time for that. There are non-believers who do not have to think about God because they are sure God doesn't exist. There are people who admit they don't know the answer and don't spend anytime on any research.
There are people who are confused and keep searching for an answer.
There are ones who have one stand today, but are open to change their stand, if someone or something convinces them. There are those who enjoy this kind of reserch, though they may not quite believe they will get a firm answer.

Mandangi,

What is sin? Does God not want us to sin?

Clueman

[hehehewalrus]

CLUEMAN,
wish your crossword clues are as straitforward as your post above :D

[mandangi]

Muslims follow religion very strictly. In Arab countries if any one commits murder his will get punishment of death, if any one commits theft his hands will be cut. In past even Iraq president Saddam Hussains son was sentenced to death. But in India it is hard to arrest even local politician. Muslims have very high devotion on god. So they are very strict on crimes.

[just_hubber]

God Exists yesterday ,today , Tomorrow.

In Nova days (refer Bible, The Book of God) , people use to live in their way , drink ,enjoy and do all kind of evil things.

But Finally God Sent "Universal Flood" (There are scietific proofs for that) and destroyed except Nova 's group.

And same thing If HE DO AGAIN!!! The whole technology and science development all will go off in a day and we will go back to ""stone age "" (if there are survivours!?? )

And i will ask those who support(Aethism, Evolution) where they will be??????

Only one thing will survive if there will be a UNiversal flood -Space station on space with 2 , 3 dead bodies after six months, because food is enough for only 6 months).

Anyone out there to agree with ME??????

[Roshan]

Muslims have very high devotion on god. So they are very strict on crimes.

Maadangi,

To a certain extent I agree with you on the devotional aspect and strict laws that prevail in Islam, but criminals are there all over irrespective of the country, colour creed or religion. I'm just reproducing below a post that was made by one of the seniour hubbers called Shekhar else where in the hub.

Good and bad , kind and cruel, decent and indecent, broad and narrow minded, straight forward and cunning, genuine and fake, mature and immature people are everywhere all over the world irrespective of their country, colour, creed or religion. The difference we perceive on our first sight or interaction is only superficial.

[r_kk]

I request just_hubber to read books outside of his own religion. Pariculary by the books written by James Randi, Earl Doherty and history of world religions... How the miracle are fake, who is real historical jesus and how the christianity has been used by famous preachers to cheat people. Tell atleast one or two good characters of Bible God? What you will find is so voilent superbeing expecting his creatures to pray only him and so inefficient to create satan. This discussions should be on God (not belonging to particular religion).

[r_kk]

If you are doing good only becaue you want heaven, then you are a selfish. If you are honest just because you are fear about the fire of hell, you are nothing but a dealer who is merchanting his soul.. If you doesn't harm others even by thought, then you don't need relgion... you don't need any GOD even... If God puts you on fire of hell, just because you do not believe him or you don't pray through particular religious belief, then he is not Kind and Universal God but selfish, egostic person worser than man and any one supporting such concept indirectly insulting the GOD concept itself (atheist are better atleast). I prefer to be a human being rather than religious man with this kind of selfish motto and slave to God because of fear and ready to face fire, if at all God exist.....You don't need a religion to be good,,,, You don't need Gurus or mediator to be good... You are the light for yourselves....

[Querida]

Mandangi,I too believe God exists 8) .Still 100% people sin :lol: .Ya,that's my opinion :lol: :wink: .

haha took the words rite out of my mouth :lol: ...yep people still sin once, twice, all the time regardless of faith and devotion...the ones who make an effort to learn from their mistakes though and practice faith in respect rather than fear of punishment are to be commended... :D

[Querida]

If you are doing good only becaue you want heaven, then you are a selfish. If you are honest just because you are fear about the fire of hell, you are nothing but a dealer who is merchanting his soul.. If you doesn't harm others even by thought, then you don't need relgion... you don't need any GOD even... If God puts you on fire of hell, just because you do not believe him or you don't pray through particular religious belief, then he is not Kind and Universal God but selfish, egostic person worser than man and any one supporting such concept indirectly insulting the GOD concept itself (atheist are better atleast). I prefer to be a human being rather than religious man with this kind of selfish motto and slave to God because of fear and ready to face fire, if at all God exist.....You don't need a religion to be good,,,, You don't need Gurus or mediator to be good... You are the light for yourselves....

thank you for those words...what could be said by many in starts and stops has been summarized by you beautifully

[Querida]

Anyone out there to agree with ME??????


ok...i like this thread because so far people have been broad-minded and understanding...please no critiques comments on particular religions....that you say the Bible is the Book of God goes to show that you are going to be stubborn...please do not cause trouble....speak of your personal and i mean your basic understanding of God...because we are all very capable of calling up our own quotations of whatever religion

[Querida]

if the concept of God is real..then i think we are better not believing in it...why? Because we do not deserve it...for people who have gone to the extent of belittling this supposedly wonderful concept such as cheating people, killing people, and all the other numerous atrocities done to mankind in the name of religion and God....if there is a God then we are further than we will ever be from Him...if He does not exist...it clearly explains why such horrible things go on unanswered....for those who still believe in God...i think that it is precious thing to not lose....because at times God serves as protection more than anything...when you are in danger of being killed you either call out "mother" or the "the God/Goddess/entity) you worship...you know that your mother could probably serve as a temporary distraction for your pursuers and the most she can do is die for you before they get to you...when calling out His/her/it/ name then you feel that you have the actual chance of getting helping beyond what is normally impossible....so keep your faith...keep your belief...but know that by keeping this faith and using it instead as means to do more harm....you are doing more wrong than then an atheist ever could....

[geno]

[tscii:81c06ffcc7]Querida! :)

>> but know that by keeping this faith and using it instead as means to do more harm....you are doing more wrong than then an atheist ever could.... >>

Well said!!

"..§¸¡Å¢ø ܼ¡Ð ±ýÚ ¦º¡øÄÅ¢ø¨Ä! §¸¡Å¢ø ¦¸¡ÊÂÅ÷¸Ç¢ý ܼ¡ÃÁ¡¸¢ Å¢¼ì ܼ¡Ð ±ýÚ¾¡ý ¦º¡øÖ¸¢§Èý.."

"kOvil koodAthu enRu sollavillai! kOvil kodiyavarkaLin koodAramAkividak koodAthu enRuthAn sollukiRE..."

The immortal lines from "Parasakthi"(1952)! :)
[/tscii:81c06ffcc7]

[davie]

if the concept of God is real..then i think we are better not believing in it...why? Because we do not deserve it...for people who have gone to the extent of belittling this supposedly wonderful concept such as cheating people, killing people, and all the other numerous atrocities done to mankind in the name of religion and God....if there is a God then we are further than we will ever be from Him...if He does not exist...it clearly explains why such horrible things go on unanswered....for those who still believe in God...i think that it is precious thing to not lose....because at times God serves as protection more than anything...when you are in danger of being killed you either call out "mother" or the "the God/Goddess/entity) you worship...you know that your mother could probably serve as a temporary distraction for your pursuers and the most she can do is die for you before they get to you...when calling out His/her/it/ name then you feel that you have the actual chance of getting helping beyond what is normally impossible....so keep your faith...keep your belief...but know that by keeping this faith and using it instead as means to do more harm....you are doing more wrong than then an atheist ever could....

hmm finally u agree there is no god. :lol: .
but christianity is a nice religion we are blessed to be christians

[Querida]

[tscii:7878ce6d3a]Querida! :)

>> but know that by keeping this faith and using it instead as means to do more harm....you are doing more wrong than then an atheist ever could.... >>

Well said!!

"..§¸¡Å¢ø ܼ¡Ð ±ýÚ ¦º¡øÄÅ¢ø¨Ä! §¸¡Å¢ø ¦¸¡ÊÂÅ÷¸Ç¢ý ܼ¡ÃÁ¡¸¢ Å¢¼ì ܼ¡Ð ±ýÚ¾¡ý ¦º¡øÖ¸¢§Èý.."

"kOvil koodAthu enRu sollavillai! kOvil kodiyavarkaLin koodAramAkividak koodAthu enRuthAn sollukiRE..."

The immortal lines from "Parasakthi"(1952)! :)
[/tscii:7878ce6d3a]

Geno technical question please see if you can help me...there is no way i will be able to post in tamil...but i would like to read it...hopefully what you wrote in tamil script you wrote again in tamglish...but how would i go about doing so?

[Querida]

Davie boy...dont gloat too much hon...it is not because of your arguments that i have changed my mind...it is rather that i want and so envy that ignorance is bliss...so yeah im not too brave to let myself be totally independent...yet i always go out of my way to find out things :?

[Querida]

Hi Querida!

I don't recall you from the 'old hub', if you were posting there. I am just curious about what you've said here, stopping short of calling yourself an "atheist". Do you think atheism is a degree more "severe" than agnosticism. Care to explain, probably in the "Does god exist" thread

Hi Cygnus!...love the avatar...
no im a newbie :D i posted one comment on what i thought of an english novel and thats it....well Cygnus feel free to explain to me otherwise...but an atheist as i understand it says there is no God, an agnostic is undecided as to what faith to follow..im sorry but im in a position now that having belief in God but no apparent system is not as lonely or courageous as saying no God exists at all..but if you had read my other post i say that i am only this way because i am afraid to totally let go of the thought of God...not that im afraid of hell or redemption or any of those concepts...it is just that well i think i would feel lost with no whatsoever belief system...

[davie]

cori ur perplexed.
i will leave u alone for one day.
cya al tomorrow

[Querida]

cori ur perplexed.
i will leave u alone for one day.
cya al tomorrow

am i wrong Davie boy? :?
if i am then im more than happy to be 'enlightened" :D
tell me tomorrow all you want

[Cygnus]

Hi Cygnus!...love the avatar...
no im a newbie :D i posted one comment on what i thought of an english novel and thats it....well Cygnus feel free to explain to me otherwise...but an atheist as i understand it says there is no God, an agnostic is undecided as to what faith to follow..im sorry but im in a position now that having belief in God but no apparent system is not as lonely or courageous as saying no God exists at all..but if you had read my other post i say that i am only this way because i am afraid to totally let go of the thought of God...not that im afraid of hell or redemption or any of those concepts...it is just that well i think i would feel lost with no whatsoever belief system


Querida,

Thanks for the comment on my duck err...swan :)

As I understand, an agnostic is someone who believes that 'gnosis' cannot be achieved, i.e., the existence or the lack of, of 'god' or 'divinity' cannot be proved, as opposed to being undecided about whether to believe or not to believe.

On the other hand, an atheist is someone whose notion it is, that 'god' or 'divinity' cannot exist, since no DIRECT proof of such existence exists.

As you can see, atheism is not one step further from agnosticism, rather it is of a different construct.

These definitions notwithstanding, I feel such labels only do more damage than good, since humans are such a prejudiced lot, and labels only curb ideas being expressed and heard with openness.

Anyhow, I wish you goodluck in your endeavors to seek anwers to these eternal questions!! :)

[mellon]

Q: That post about jesus being a proposed author was not meant to offend Jesus.

It was intented to say NO AUTHOR is UNBIASED as long as the author is a human.

Unfortunately one's bias can only be seen by his/her opponent whom one does not trust or respect. When the bias was seen and mentioned to you by your own, you might very well label him or her as a traitor which is unfortunately a reward for his/her honesty :cry:

[Querida]

Q: That post about jesus being a proposed author was not meant to offend Jesus.

It was intented to say NO AUTHOR is UNBIASED as long as the author is a human.

Unfortunately one's bias can only be seen by his/her opponent whom one does not trust or respect. When the bias was seen and mentioned to you by your own, you might very well label him or her as a traitor which is unfortunately a reward for his/her honesty :cry:

my poor head...dear mellon please some lay-men terms for this clueless poster especially the text in blue please

[Querida]

Agnostic: One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.

An agnostic does not deny the existence of God and heaven but holds that one cannot know for certain whether or not they exist.

One who professes ignorance, or denies that we have any knowledge, save of phenomena; one who supports agnosticism, neither affirming nor denying the existence of a personal Deity,

this is where my understanding is based...Cygnus :D

Atheist: One who disbelieves or denies the existence of a God, or supreme intelligent Being.

One who disbelieves or denies the existence of a God, or supreme intelligent Being.

and Davie boy to your conversion of unbeliever into believer post:
An unbeliever is not necessarily a disbeliever or infidel, because he may still be inquiring after evidence to satisfy his mind; :D

[Querida]

Q: That post about jesus being a proposed author was not meant to offend Jesus.

It was intented to say NO AUTHOR is UNBIASED as long as the author is a human.

Unfortunately one's bias can only be seen by his/her opponent whom one does not trust or respect. When the bias was seen and mentioned to you by your own, you might very well label him or her as a traitor which is unfortunately a reward for his/her honesty :cry:

Mellon i was not angry or thought you were being unfair in your statement i understood what you meant by the impossibility of an unbiased author..i just played along and added what i knew...i meant jest but you have not taken it so :(

[Bad Boy]

Querida,
who are you? I know somehow who you are but not exactly who you are. Do I have to use more of my logical abilities?

OK, lets start us by McEnroe Hits fanatstic? :?:

[just_hubber]

I am not promoting christianity ,
i myself was like a atheist for sometimes ,

And now i changed i saw in my own eyes many witness and miracles not a fake one.

Dont tell everywhere they give money to fake

And there more than 10000 people get healed and witnessed by doctors.

especially nowadays because of skeptic people writing bad about "miracle healing"
There is doctor team to witness in every healing festival

And read about the one happened in chennai in 2002(merina) - Pastor Jae rock Lee and Benny Hinn in Bombay , there are million people grouped there in a Hindu country , the majority are not christians.

And dont need to read out the books mentioned about "atheism"
because i already know about the arguments of them.

There is answer for everything in Bible

[r_kk]

anwers in ..... Sorry....
again I already wrote... Please read your religious book throughly and read others with the same respect... Every religious people says that there are miracles in their religion.... but till now not a single one is proved.... Don't say temporary elevated motivation as relief.... There is now answers in the book you had mentioned to many of the proven scientific facts... But the other way round the most famous miracle healers are proven wrong.... You read the books on famous faith healers... even the main supportive evidence for miracle cure itself in Bible is recently inserted.... It is very simple to make immature athiest to a hardcore believer... So... if anyone say they had seen God and on behalif of God he is doing something un scientific beware he is a cheat in your word he is a antichrist.... I also feel the same.... Please don't yourself trapped in to religious hatred person... If you want to be christian, it is your wish but please understand that every one believes their belief is correct. If you are following Isalm, be generous like Abdul Kaalam and if you are christian be like Jesudass... The hatred mind is really a devil ....

[Alisha]

Anyone out there to agree with ME??????


ok...i like this thread because so far people have been broad-minded and understanding...please no critiques comments on particular religions....that you say the Bible is the Book of God goes to show that you are going to be stubborn...please do not cause trouble....speak of your personal and i mean your basic understanding of God...because we are all very capable of calling up our own quotations of whatever religion

Querida,

That's a GOOD ONE !!!

[Alisha]

if the concept of God is real..then i think we are better not believing in it...why? Because we do not deserve it...for people who have gone to the extent of belittling this supposedly wonderful concept such as cheating people, killing people, and all the other numerous atrocities done to mankind in the name of religion and God....if there is a God then we are further than we will ever be from Him...if He does not exist...it clearly explains why such horrible things go on unanswered....for those who still believe in God...i think that it is precious thing to not lose....because at times God serves as protection more than anything...when you are in danger of being killed you either call out "mother" or the "the God/Goddess/entity) you worship...you know that your mother could probably serve as a temporary distraction for your pursuers and the most she can do is die for you before they get to you...when calling out His/her/it/ name then you feel that you have the actual chance of getting helping beyond what is normally impossible....so keep your faith...keep your belief...but know that by keeping this faith and using it instead as means to do more harm....you are doing more wrong than then an atheist ever could....

hmm finally u agree there is no god. :lol: .
but christianity is a nice religion we are blessed to be christians

What I understand after coming to the Lord is that is nothing to do with Religion but our relationship with god.

You can be a Christian and be strict about all the do and don'ts the religion lays down but if you don't have a personal relationship with him you are the same as someone who doesn't believe in GOD.

[sonu gopi]

What I understand after coming to the Lord is that is nothing to do with Religion but our relationship with god.

You can be a Christian and be strict about all the do and don'ts the religion lays down but if you don't have a personal relationship with him you are the same as someone who doesn't believe in GOD.


Well phrased Alisha! :lol:

*********
SONU GOPI :)

[r_kk]

Better you love another human being without hatred.... Don't believe any other human beings who agents God (miracle healer, Gurus. preachers, priests...) they are ral cheats... If you kind and generous and if at all there is a God, he will come to your heart... I feel a heart filled with kindness is God... Not just some super naturals from outside.... No religios books will take you to such expereience...

[Alisha]

am not promoting christianity ,
i myself was like a atheist for sometimes ,

And now i changed i saw in my own eyes many witness and miracles not a fake one.

Dont tell everywhere they give money to fake

And there more than 10000 people get healed and witnessed by doctors.

especially nowadays because of skeptic people writing bad about "miracle healing"
There is doctor team to witness in every healing festival

And read about the one happened in chennai in 2002(merina) - Pastor Jae rock Lee and Benny Hinn in Bombay , there are million people grouped there in a Hindu country , the majority are not christians.

And dont need to read out the books mentioned about "atheism"
because i already know about the arguments of them.

There is answer for everything in Bible

May 2002, I was healed from Cervical Spondilosis ocurred in C5 and C6 at a Rally held at the Bukit Jalil Stadium by an Argentina Pastor.

I was going through great pain and surgical was recommended but I was not keen to have an operation because the doctor said that he only can guarantee 50% and not 100%.

[hehehewalrus]

alisha
was his name Carlos Anaconda?

[Alisha]

alisha
was his name Carlos Anaconda?

Yes that's him.

[just_hubber]

Hi r_KK
I never said i believe any individual when there is miracle and healing happens ,

We all know that it happens in jesus Name,
In Africa , India , Korea, Japan revival is hapening , No body can stop it.

In brazil , columbia football stadiums become Gospel stadium , million people are experiencing supernatural touching and joy

And even after seeing ourself - cant you a see a intelligent design - And a creator is behind.

Supernarural is accepted and trustable when it happens in Jesus Name.

Faith in Jesus, the Lord will lead to Miracle.

in a recent Healing festival in Russia , Doctor dean and group from St Petersburg University , russia verified and confirmed miracles , There are already documented cases.

It is not to convince any 1 but i myself witnessed in my own eyes ,

And so many incidents of raising from Death happened in Africa so far (documented by even a muslim Mortuary guy)

[r_kk]

Hi just_hubber,
It is well inteligent way of cheating... Nothing had happen or proved... Don't say here and there... Tell an exact incidence with proof.... I am sorry to know that dead person becomes alive by name of christ.... real cheating.... brain washing... This way fake priests are even challanging the ultimate power of God.... In India many Godman do miracles...(!)... What we need is hypnotized mass... People are worser in crowd because of high level of emotions...your foodbal crowd means only this... I don't want to tease your emotions... thats why I stop myself writting against any religion or its real facts... I can tell hundreds of facts how this miracles are stage organized....and why? The most famous healers who started the major eang.. movement in Brazil was proven as fake (see the long program in discovery channel).. In fact most of such healers are challangeing God and worsen than atheist... As I wrote already... if you belief some thing because of it benifits you... then you are just a slefish person... The amount of hatred you have for other religion shows very clearly says you have never experienced the greatness of God.... If you tell jusy one person as god, it is the height of ignorance and major blow to sprituality in whole... No atheist need to challange God... the so called belivers are enough

[sonu gopi]

May 2002, I was healed from Cervical Spondilosis ocurred in C5 and C6 at a Rally held at the Bukit Jalil Stadium by an Argentina Pastor.

I was going through great pain and surgical was recommended but I was not keen to have an operation because the doctor said that he only can guarantee 50% and not 100%.

I went thru’ cevical spondilosis Op (May 2001) C3 & C5 region - disc fragmented due to an impact on my head - had to be replaced by my pelvic bone (suffered for 2 yrs b4 op). Thank God I am fine and kicking now.

My faith in God and a miracle led me towards road of recovery. I was only given a 50% guarantee by the doctor – either I will recover or be completely paralazed or EVEN death on the operating table itself! He said he will do his best and the rest is in the hands of God!

Yes, Sonu Gopi made it with God's grace!

*********
SONU GOPI

[just_hubber]

hi r_kk
I have writen one reply with link , it was removed from forum just yesterday ,

What i can do i am not admin here ,

And also i have no time to explain here ,i also wasted so much time being a Atheist , reading all logical arguments of atheist and exited.

Those days are finished.

I am not hatred of people or other religion.

i am just watching how God makes way everywhere and exited!

If you know anything about revival (it may be funny for you)

just a one incident
TN there was a Anti religion conversion law to please BJP and other hindu parties as there are so many hindu people are changed their mind towards christ(This is alarming)

What happen , the law was reverted back . And one holy Hindu leader is arrested of Murder case !

Whatever obstacles are broken.

Pastor benny hinn is visitng New Delhi in 2005.
People are never force converted rather their mind is changed towards christ.

I never hate other religion people

And also i have no time to argue here rather i will read Bible on that time . As Bible says "Fools tell in his Mind there is No God"

you are not great than MLuther King or Spurgeon , i rather had listen to their quotes rather than you !

[blahblah]

And so many incidents of raising from Death happened in Africa so far (documented by even a muslim Mortuary guy)

I too am a christian,but I am surprised some ill informed people who will swallow anything should make public coments of this sort which will make their religion a laughing stock before others.If some one had actually been raised from death and if there was enough evidence for it this world would have changed for ever.Prayer has its advantages which are admitted by even doctors.If you are going to tell me that my God is a sorcerer or a magic healer,my boy,its blind faith.

[r_kk]

Ha...I am just a common man... I am not at all great or lower to any body... You listen to anybody...It is all your life...
Read the godman story who was behind Brazil religious movement

You want to know how the death man brought to alive. Who did it? And what is the mischief’s behind? I can write lot if you want…. And this forum doesn’t censor.

Magicians are doing the same thing but they accept that they are just performing show… but Godman perform half cooked magic and gets lots and lot of money and fame and dangerously keep the millions in ignorant…. If at all a God present, let him relieve the world from these cheats and free the world from religion…. That is the way God should show his minimum power… not through self-prophesied healers and Cheaters by doing small small half cooked miracles…
I firmly believe….
A person who is saying that he can do unscientific miracle in front of others and earn fame or wealth … is a cheat.
A god who says he will put you in fire if you don’t become his slave, then he is not God
Any book which is preaching hatred against other fellow human beings is not holy….
Any one who is adamant about his religion and considered others are bad…. is diseased person….

If you say some probalistical good outcome as gods grace then ahat you call for bad things happened to others...

Its all up to you…. What you want to believe… Let me not stoping it… no use hitting the wall again and again…Your life... you decide... Enjoy... bye....

[Alisha]

Just want to say that this issue will go on and on without any stops.

I just like to say that GOD is not a complicated issue and THOSE WHO SEEK HIM WILL FIND HIM. I can’t recall all this terms and conditions that people draw up to show that GOD exist or not but what I know is that our HUB moderator is watching and one fine day this thread will vanish if we keep posting sensitive issues.

Instead of coming up with logical terms why don’t you SHARE YOUR PERSONAL EXPERIENCE TO SAY THAT GOD EXIST OR GOD DOESN’T and not pick some facts that you have read from a book written by someone that you never knew.

[hehehewalrus]

hi guys, keep your cool. I will post a detailed one maybe next week. protect this thread till then :)

[geno]

Friends,

This thread has seen some of the most intellectually stimulating discussion - about the CONCEPT of GOD -in a purely Idealogical / theological sense of it.

Personal miracles, healings - may not be relevant here - since theology has to stand outside any given individuals "personal experience" - though you can articulate your experiences in a more generic way.

Please - do not conduct orchestrated propaganda for any religion / religious concept.

I would like this thread to survive any individuals pro-activist outlooks - so please concentrate more on the concept of God and divinity - than your "religiosity".

Thanks folks :)

[Roshan]

I strongly endorse geno's statement !

[r_kk]

Me too accept the geno's proposal... The concept of God arise from few basic questions still unanswered by science...
1. How the universe had came to existance... Even though science says big bang... expanding universe etc... the basic question is from where the basic particle came? The another major issue is the existence of particle itself... When you go molecue-atom-electron--- further you will end up in just energy and what you notice is just nothing but energy... So exixtence of basic itself becoming a doubtful questions...Indian mythology explaincall enegy as Sakthi then the particle is sivam... Each are same in difference form and exixt as well as doesn't exist...
The second question is how the life came? Scientists explains the electric pulse on pool of amino liquid created the self separable life form... but till now they couldn't create single self separable atom... but they have reached very close.... When they demonstarte, the faith on God may be over.... Till that time God concept will remain ever after so much of answerless argument... The third question is if we, a pool of chemicals can think why can't be superbeing with more chemical links...

These are answerless questions as on today for science... The same type of questions are for religion also... If nobody created God and he himself was existing... then why not universe? Why it should be created... These are egg and hen story and no answer today...

But is it all necessary to pray God? What you will be?
Some one says...we as micro level same as God and we should integrate to the main mass in order to more stable...

Any one to continue... without emphassing religions and their own relief from health/physical problems?

[wolverynn]

I AM NOT GOOD AT THIS BUT LOOK AT THIS WAY

GOD IS MOVER OF UNMOVED
GOD IS CAUSE OF UNCAUSED
GOD IS THE ULIMATE KNOWLEDGE

PS-FAITH WITHOUT REASONING IS BLIND
REASONING WITHOUT FAITH IS LAME

NO OFFENCE-JUST COMMENTS

8)

[mandangi]

Some people may do sins even they believe god. Belief on god improves morality in majority of people. We should not say that god do not exist.

[Bad Boy]

... We should not say that god do not exist.
But if they say so then you should accept that they say that God does not exists. There is nothing wrong in thinking so. If God created the thinking humans then he knew already that they would do think different.

[Querida]

Querida,
who are you? I know somehow who you are but not exactly who you are. Do I have to use more of my logical abilities?

OK, lets start us by McEnroe Hits fanatstic? :?:

who is that? Some singer? Or Music Band...i would tell you who i am...but well i still dont know myself :D

[Querida]

Please i see sane reasonings fall on deaf ears....please do not preach about your own religion...do not push facts/fiction on others...it is your life your belief...be satisfied if youwant that you have it....but please do not force it down my throat...this is a philosophical discussion not one where we ask to bring so and so religious concepts/evidence...Do us all a favour and re-read r_kk, Geno's statements and if you do not understand try again!

[Bad Boy]

Querida,
you cause me sleep deprivation. Yes, you aren't logical McEnroe hit. But let me tell you, you seems to me be very very familiar.

I am quite sure the Moderator is very keen sensoring my postings but he does not want to see that he really should see. If I only knew how he understands my english ...

Imagination is everything as you quotes. I imagine a lot and phantasize, also not a bad coaltion. :lol: :D :D

[Querida]

Querida,
you cause me sleep deprivation. Yes, you aren't logical McEnroe hit. But let me tell you, you seems to me be very very familiar.

I am quite sure the Moderator is very keen sensoring my postings but he does not want to see that he really should see. If I only knew how he understands my english ...

Imagination is everything as you quotes. I magine a lot and phantasize, also not a bad coaltion. :lol: :D :D

ok ich virwerre mit das posts...haha ok dont be too harsh it's been a long while since i last studied German....

anyways yeah i have no whatsoever clue what you are talking about...please you may stoop to my level and tell me what you are saying....no no imagination isn't everything...but knowledge isn't either :D

[r_kk]

Coming to the point….
I had already explained the fundamental questions still unanswered by religion as well as science. Even though science is trying to find answers religion is telling that the existing knowledge of great men’s are enough and forget about finding answers and just pray to nature to bless with answers… This is called enlightenment in religion… Let me explain in simple terms….

If some one says there is a light, it should be visible to every body… it should be seen independent of whether you believe or not… Religion is pointing towards one direction sand says human to assume light in their mind and then look (called faith) and it says if you assume in mind, then only you can see…. Poor science guys… They couldn’t see… They want a valuable proof and say if there is light it should be visible to all independent of whether you believe or not, and what religious people are seeing is a hallucination of mind … and nothing real…

Till now no miracles were proven as true… all self feelings only and never possible to repeat in fool proof environment… This make the religious arguments so week… When an object can be created out of nothing or when one can create even a single cell out of non living material, all the arguments will be over… Who ever can do this is close to God… and destroy other concept totally…. All miracle healers are trying to cheat the people they can do this and trying to be closer to the God… but till now what they had shown is illusion to the mind… not actual… If some thing actual, then the total scientific community will become believer within a second…

I will write again, if the discussion goes in proper direction….

[hehehewalrus]

r_kk
how many of them have you verified? :)
you are just speaking out your assumptions :)

[r_kk]

Hi,
There are so many verification has been done by many scientist and humanist… There are so many open calls to religious people to prove super natural for example by Abraham Kovoor and James Randi… Abraham Koovers challenge is still very simple.. He had kept one bank note in sealed cover, and asked any Godman in the world can tell just its number. He was ready to donate his hard earned money and become follower… Till his death, no one could challenge him… Still there are similar simple challenges are existing… It is all call for the religious people to demonstrate just one super natural act… but till now no one is ready challenge… In turn they are proving major religious gurus as fake with solid evidences… Mine is not just assumption… Till now I have been searching for truth with open mind (neither religioustic or atheistic) but till now I couldn’t find even a single proof to be religioustic (I explained already the basic questions… not self relief feelings…). After all you don’t need to know the truth or some thing supreme to be good and honest…

[Alisha]

Hi,
There are so many verification has been done by many scientist and humanist… There are so many open calls to religious people to prove super natural for example by Abraham Kovoor and James Randi… Abraham Koovers challenge is still very simple.. He had kept one bank note in sealed cover, and asked any Godman in the world can tell just its number. He was ready to donate his hard earned money and become follower… Till his death, no one could challenge him… Still there are similar simple challenges are existing… It is all call for the religious people to demonstrate just one super natural act… but till now no one is ready challenge… In turn they are proving major religious gurus as fake with solid evidences… Mine is not just assumption… Till now I have been searching for truth with open mind (neither religioustic or atheistic) but till now I couldn’t find even a single proof to be religioustic (I explained already the basic questions… not self relief feelings…). After all you don’t need to know the truth or some thing supreme to be good and honest…

God has his timing and when he answers your question, be ready because its going to be a big time event.

[r_kk]

All religious people were saying this same reply for last so many hundreds of years... But till now.... no such big events... Don't say large catestropy or disease etc as proof of God's presence... I am eagerly waiting for that day... because I don't want to some one outside or some form of religion or Guru to tell... Don't corelate the good or bad happenings to the act of God... Is there any clear anwers by religious people to the basic questions other than threatening the non-belivers with big happenings... After all what the God ultimately can do... Putting the non-belivers in to endless pain and sufferings just because he is not becoming slave to him... If that is God's interest, let me be a free bird of thoughts and face such sistuation with smile... instead of having fear and accepting religions which is the root cause of all present day problem...

[Alisha]

hi guys, keep your cool. I will post a detailed one maybe next week. protect this thread till then :)

Walrus,

A few of my posts has been deleted.

I am not getting in to the bad books of the Moderator, NOV so I will have to thinks real hard before posting any messages here. :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

[ruth premi]

Hi there....

Weird but true.... some poeple believe they can talk and write very well but then they actualy do not understand what they are saying for instance.....

the topic here is does god exist? but then now it has been whisch god is greater? i always believed that religion was created to make the believe in god easy to digest not the other way around... i see quotes in book and religios books... i just dont understand something.. why do you have to quote and re quote something u very well know that it is wrong/right in your heart? Is your intension are to argue and be a sport in a hub or to be a anti religious person and create war....

those whom like to argue on religious standings are considered people whom would not except realty... they are the ones whom encaurage religious wars and hatred. ...... everyone has to agree that we are one nation no mater who we are.. the human nation!

i just do not get it..... if everyone in this world bellieves there is no god.. than there would'nt need a hub to discuss this topic.... how monotonnous the world would be if there were to be only one religion?? I believe because there are so many believes around, we are still sane!

my point is very clear.. .i must feel it in my heart.. if i find it so strong that i need to share it then i would... Who is right? The ones who have been confusing themselves with the topic here or the ones who have been trying to stand up?

u want to say god exist.. then give ur experiences... pray for this person or better still just agree to him.. don't create a fire in him/her!

firstly... lets just do this questions if you may......

1) Does god Exist?
2) Why do you say so?
3) Is what you believe is the truth? why?
4) Why do you think it is necessary to believe or not to believe in Gods Existence?
5) In your oppinion why are ppl around us killing themselves on something like this?
6) If given a chance how would you like to use ur believe in creating peace in the world?
7) Do you think what u believe in holds a great deal in the world? why?
8) Do you believe there should be believers and non believers around or just one? why?
9) SHould there be a question asked as to who is god? why?

i am not being the class head or something.. but if we could just use these qs as a guide i think we wold not run out of topic or hurt anyone.. .Lets Just be Adults even though there are few kiddos here!


mannipom, marrappom, valzhkaiyil Ithu matrume vellum!

[giri]

I am not sure if God exists. But all the while i was told that there is God. Certainly i believe that. One thing is sure; In this world you have to help yourself. Definetly God can't help you whenever you call for God. You must always thank God for sending you to this world as a human.

[hehehewalrus]

guys, i am busy so cant write more.
But I am glad to see the healthy and friendly way in which postors have put their beliefs and exhibited great maturity - r_kk, Alisha, geno, Querida, blahblah, premi etc. Hope this will be maintained - I am sure we can all learn from each other :)

[mandangi]

Many people are benefited by believing god. There is no need to say that god do not exists.

[a.ratchasi]

Religion is decided solely by God and Me - Mahatma Gandhi

Whether you are a believer or a non-believer, it does not concern anybody but you.

It is your personal belief.

If you think GOD exists, so be it.
If you think not, so be it.

Have peace within yourself first.
That is what matters the most.
Everything else is secondary.
__________________________________________________ ___
To go against the dominant thinking of your friends, of most of the people you see every day, is perhaps the most difficult act of heroism you can perform. Theodore H. White

[davie]

Religion is decided solely by God and Me - Mahatma Gandhi

Whether you are a believer or a non-believer, it does not concern anybody but you.

It is your personal belief.

If you think GOD exists, so be it.
If you think not, so be it.

Have peace within yourself first.
That is what matters the most.
Everything else is secondary.
__________________________________________________ ___
To go against the dominant thinking of your friends, of most of the people you see every day, is perhaps the most difficult act of heroism you can perform. Theodore H. White

yea absolutely.
as u said, peace of mind is the most important thing in this world

[just_hubber]

Anselm’s Version
P1: God is the greatest conceivable being (the being “than which nothing greater can be conceived”).

P2: If such a being didn’t exist in reality, you could imagine a being just like it except your imaginary being does exist in reality. In other words, if the greatest conceivable being didn’t exist in reality, you could conceive of a being greater than the greatest conceivable being.

P3: But that’s a contradiction (an absurdity): It’s not logically possible to conceive of a being greater than the greatest conceivable being.

C: Therefore, God, the greatest conceivable being, must exist in reality.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Descartes’ Version (in Meditation V)

P1: God is the greatest conceivable being.

P2: The greatest conceivable being must possess all perfections to the highest degree.

P3: Existence is a perfection. (An existing X is always better – more perfect – than an imaginary or non-existent one.)

C: Therefore, God, the greatest conceivable being, must exist.

[just_hubber]

First, the knowledge of the existence of God means that man is put here by design. It means that while all God’s creatures have purpose, due to man’s particular uniqueness among the creatures of God, man has special purpose and meaning. We are not merely the product of time plus chance or some impersonal force. We are each the result of a personal God who created us for Himself with meaning and purpose. [Edited] Creation’s primary role is to give man the evidence and basis for God-consciousness.

Second, the knowledge of God means responsibility. The fact that there is a supreme and perfect being, a divine sovereign who created us for His purposes, means that we are each responsible to Him for the way we live and for what we do with the life He has given us.

Third, the knowledge of God’s existence means that we have the responsibility to search and seek to know God personally and intimately, to be thankful, and to worship Him accordingly. The facts are, however, that man in his fallen state does not search for God, at least not on his own [Edited] . But in His grace, God constantly works to draw men to Himself.[Edited]

Sadly, most people, even with the conviction that God exists, live like practical atheists, as though God does not exist or as though He is indifferent to man. One of the reasons for this is [Edited] the principle of God’s patience and slowness to act against man’s sin.

[Edited]

Because the sentence against an evil deed is not executed quickly, therefore the hearts of the sons of men among them are given fully to do evil. [Edited]

[Alisha]

That was excellent.

[Bad Boy]

ok ich virwerre mit das posts...haha ok dont be too harsh it's been a long while since i last studied German....
Quite Good :!:
Ok, ich verwirre mit den Posts

anyways yeah i have no whatsoever clue what you are talking about...please you may stoop to my level and tell me what you are saying....no no imagination isn't everything...but knowledge isn't either :D I can't stoop anymore, I am not on the ground I am deep down under. I am digging and digging to find God because I did not find him up above, neigther daytime nor during the nights. :lol: :lol:

[just_hubber]

Although the universe could have arisen spontaneously, not a universe with such complexity and utter efficiency like the one we live in, a world where the scale is balanced just right to support life, a people with such intelligence. Because the world is so well designed there must be an intelligent designer that being God. Darwin’s theory of evolution and natural adaptation were simply observations of the amazing design of the world. Our animals have been designed to adapt to changes in climate and the increase of prey. I don’t believe it’s possible for such intricacies to exist in an accidental universe.



God gave us our intellectual ability it is an ability that God has inserted in us. Why should we use that ability to research science, mathematics, biology and all other fields besides that of divinity? When we use our mind and thinking processes to find evidence for the existence of god we are using a God given ability to search for the truth. Intellectual search for God should not necessarily be in conflict to spiritual or emotional search for God. Each can strengthen and enhance the other.
It is true that we cannot absolutely prove or not prove the existence of God because we cannot get God and put him in a human laboratory and analyze him. But we can look to God like a super telescope looks into the universe in quest of understanding it. No lens, no matter how large can explain the whole universe, but still these lenses teach us a lot about the universe. To use our God given intellectual lenses to look into the creator will contribute to our knowledge of God.
Read the Bible as it is Truth it is the word and the word is God

[Bad Boy]

Read the Bible as it is Truth it is the word and the word is God

"Always look on the bright side of life" - The life of Brian, who knows this film or musical? No other religion than Christianity would have tolerated this. Or do you have anything similar to this sarcasm from other religions?

[r_kk]

Thanks Just_hubber... You had just started writting something little sensible (but you still believe that dead man can be rised by prayer... That is too much).. Whtever you had said it is there in all religions and books... not only in Bible... If you compare with the next holy book (people say last book) it is more scientific than yours since science was much devloped that time...

But again you are trying to be very narrow and losing support of other believers... I always say... from the explanation you had given, there is no necessity to pray such being... even if it exist....

Religions brought only volence and hatred... I am not expecting you to change... As a skeptic.. I don't hate religion even though I don't accept God and felt such presence or need...But I request you, the god's closest person... to look all other beliefs with kind thought... and don't enforce what you thinking is only great without knowing even 0.001% of others..

If at all a God, let him give more broad sence to you...Aum..Amen.. Insh Allah...

[r_kk]

Hi Just hubber,
Please read bible very carefully Do you know what your statement "The greatest conceivable being must possess all perfections to the highest degree" means . Can you tell few pefect things about him... But I can write from Bible hundreds of pages... how the concpt of God was inefficient.. imperfect... and even cruel than "S". Sorry it will hurt you badly... better read your good book carefully before writting any thing from them... and one more don't just copy from your religious writters books.... I can easily explain how these words incoherent and doesn't give any valid ... Please read the articles written by Mervin which published In "Tarasu". He is very devoted christian and his detail reserch about famous miracle healers will open your eyes...
I am not against God beliver but religions which make hatred feeling on other fellow human beings... Religions does only this...

[Querida]

[quote="a.ratchasi"]Religion is decided solely by God and Me - Mahatma Gandhi

Whether you are a believer or a non-believer, it does not concern anybody but you.

It is your personal belief.

If you think GOD exists, so be it.
If you think not, so be it.

Have peace within yourself first.
That is what matters the most.
Everything else is secondary.
__________________________________________________ ___
Thank you Ratchasi...that is what many of us have been trying to say....but to no avail.... :(

[Querida]

[/quote] I can't stoop anymore, I am not on the ground I am deep down under. I am digging and digging to find God because I did not find him up above, neigther daytime nor during the nights. :lol: :lol:[/quote]

thanx for the corrections...and your funny comment...but that doesn't answer the comment that you posted...how am i familiar to you?

[Querida]

Read the Bible as it is Truth it is the word and the word is God

"Always look on the bright side of life" - The life of Brian, who knows this film or musical? No other religion than Christianity would have tolerated this. Or do you have anything similar to this sarcasm from other religions?

Yeah I saw that BB...but the movie was sued by many churches, synagogues....though come on you have to admit in some parts it was hilarious :D But yeah it was tolerated enough to become a normal movie to watch in my world religion class

[davie]

one of the forum hubbers wrote these lines to explain god

As far as the uncertainty in measurement is concerned, it never means that the measurement is always going to be in error by the amount of the uncertainty of the measuring equipment or method. If the uncertainty of equipment or method is identified as 99.1%, in reality, all that means is, if one takes sufficiently large number of measurements, the measuring instrument or method, on average, will indicate the measured quantity within 99.9% +/- 0.1 % of the true value of the measured quantity. If a skilled person analyses the measured data, he would soon find that some measurements would have “indicated” values within 99.8% of the true value and some measurements would have “indicated” values that are 100% correct. When produced as histogram, the measured values would generally follow a Gaussian distribution whose mean (average) would be estimated at 99.1% of the “true” value of the measured quantity. Also there can be and there are, more than one ways to repeat the same measurement and boost the confidence level in measurements.

:lol: i think in first page.

[geno]

Wonderful posts from r_kk, a.ratchasi, querida, bad boy, walrus, davie et al! :) :D

It's heartening to note the "mostly" healthy discussion in this thread! :D

And thanks to everyone who have refrained from using "religion" and for agreeing to share their thoughts on the "concept of god" / divinity :)

r_kk! :)

Excellent and insightful posts dude!

I like your simple and straightforward approach towards the "idea" of god and they non-cumbersome and graceful way you have articulated your thoughts. Please continue to write more :)

a. ratchasi,

thanx for your soothing and pragmatic approach to this issue! :)

Bad boy,

I guess - especially in thamizh - there have been a lot of films - which have been critical of the "divinity" and also various superstitious and archaic practices of the Majority Conglomerate religion - prevalent in thamizhnaadu! :)

The "social-reform movement" - right from 1920s - has created a very secular and very tolerant atmosphere in TN - i would opine! :)

And i should add that "majority" of the thamizh people have been "conditioned" for centuries by secular and tolerant "spiritualism".

It is a unique character of our legacy and culture that right from Sangam period, thru the Jain and buddhist era, Saivaite renaissance, vasihanavaite period, medieval and moghul period, british period - we have had a continuum of this "secular" and "tolerant" and "liberal" spiritualistic literary tradition!

This kind of benevolent and "love" based thamizh spiritual literature - has been imbibed very well thru the ages - and thats why thamizh people - inspite of other "discrepancies" owing to archaic traditions and rituals - have retained their tolerance right through i would say!


Listen to this verse - from the movie "anbE sivam":


"yAr yAr sivam
nee nAn sivam!

vAzhvE thavam
anbE sivam!

Aththigam pEsum adiyArkkellAM sivamE anbAkum
nAththigam pEsum nallavarukkO anbE sivamAkum! "

- Vairamuthu


A simple transcreation of the above verse :


"Why should we search for God when he resides in you and me?

Living a humane life is in itself a penance (no other ritual needed)

(Realise that) Love is God!

Spiritualists love to dedicate themselves for worship of God

Rationalists dedicate their life to propagate that Love is God" :D

[Querida]

hey you changed your avatar..is this because of your comment to Nirosha Sen that you looked more like Kamal in that movie after the accident when she thought Nandakumar was you? :D

Anyways I really liked Anbae Sivam just for that reason...I feel much happier thinking i am able to have a personal connection with God and doing good than going by the system but feeling nothing but exasperation...

[blahblah]

First, the knowledge of the existence of God means that man is put here by design. It means that while all God’s creatures have purpose, due to man’s particular uniqueness among the creatures of God, man has special purpose and meaning. We are not merely the product of time plus chance or some impersonal force. We are each the result of a personal God who created us for Himself with meaning and purpose. [Edited] Creation’s primary role is to give man the evidence and basis for God-consciousness.

Second, the knowledge of God means responsibility. The fact that there is a supreme and perfect being, a divine sovereign who created us for His purposes, means that we are each responsible to Him for the way we live and for what we do with the life He has given us.

Third, the knowledge of God’s existence means that we have the responsibility to search and seek to know God personally and intimately, to be thankful, and to worship Him accordingly. The facts are, however, that man in his fallen state does not search for God, at least not on his own [Edited] . But in His grace, God constantly works to draw men to Himself.[Edited]

Sadly, most people, even with the conviction that God exists, live like practical atheists, as though God does not exist or as though He is indifferent to man. One of the reasons for this is [Edited] the principle of God’s patience and slowness to act against man’s sin.

[Edited]

Because the sentence against an evil deed is not executed quickly, therefore the hearts of the sons of men among them are given fully to do evil. [Edited]


You may not accept there is anything offensive in this post,but people who don't agree with you can identify it.People who knows only what they want to know are despised by others.Just-hubbers comments would have been more proper if he had spent some time reading the other holy books as well.After all,when I see so much red ink on an answer sheet I feel,something is wrong. Prejudiced,closed minded people bring about disgrace on their community.

[just_hubber]

Hi
i dont know why whenever i quote God's words , it is edited.
And one guy is commenting like we are closed minded

Why you thinking in one side? Why it can be the real truth which i want to reveal you really never know.

That means you are closed minded for truth.

Anyway in india even though they put Anti conversion law , still there are huge people are listening to good message and their mind is changed.

And i can agree in some places people may fake Healings , but it is very few in which that person really have to face the big wrath.

And it is very visible in lot of places huge people are really healed physically and also spiriutally.

you have to see even small kids give testimonies that they healed and felt a hand touched them.

Do you argue they also fraud???!

Millions are people following and feel the real God Presence and get healed in the whole world even doctors , professionals , great scholars.

They are not fools .

[DELETED]

FINAL WARNING: Do not use use this Hub for preaching/propagation of any religion!

[blahblah]

[quote="just_hubber

And it is very visible in lot of places huge people are really healed physically and also spiriutally.

Healing can be explained in many ways scientifically.What do you mean by 'spiritual healing'?

you have to see even small kids give testimonies that they healed and felt a hand touched them.

Do you argue they also fraud???! [/quot

The answer is there in the question itself.Any one can fool a kid if he is smart enough.

And as for all the verses you have quoted from the bible,I have spent many years reading bible and praying for atleast 6 hours a day when I used to consider myself a saint.Don't think that no one can quote Bible better than you.My blindness was removed when I tried to understand other religions and their scriptures as well.Just to open your eyes to what others have to say,why don't you visit the old hub,go to the Indian culture section and check out the thread,"Religious unification-is it possible"?.

Just between us-"WISDOM COMES FROM THE LORD.FROM HIM COMES KNOWLEDGE AND UNDERSTANDING".

[blahblah]

Fanatic 'know-it-all's make me throw up.I am sick of them.I wrote this much because I feel such guys' propaganda should be responded to!

[r_kk]

Hi Just_hubber,
You have been telling the same without even reading others responses... Just take very old bible... You will find The MARK-16 was not there in original Bible... The miracles in that chapter was proven as inserted... Thats why I have been seeing you try to read without your current idea... I am waiting to get others responses to your posts... then I will give more proper answers.... In Tamil there is proverb "Frog living in small pond feels it is ocean... and nothing bigger".... It seems your pond is very very small....

[Bad Boy]

In Tamil there is proverb "Frog living in small pond feels it is ocean... and nothing bigger".... It seems your pond is very very small....
Let me please precise the above. This frog is quacking rather from a glas water glas than from the pond in your garden.

Why do you find no prayers execpt "Our father in Heaven" in The New Testament? [deleted]

I don't want to insult any religion or God or even the mappings (humans) of God. I only have silly questions. I also know that Kardinal Ratzinger (The Holy Inquisition - very threatning term) is following me beside ads and mods. :lol:

[r_kk]

I will try to write more staright forward strong dose of reply to just_hubber to explain how he wrongly understood his holy book itsef... But I do not prefer to make him mood off... And it may deviate the original discussion issue... So let me wait for some more proper responses....

[Bad Boy]

I will try to write more staright forward strong dose of reply to just_hubber to explain how he wrongly understood his holy book itsef... But I do not prefer to make him mood off... And it may deviate the original discussion issue... So let me wait for some more proper responses....

But take care of your dose, it is always misunderstood by our big brother deleter.

Rearding the "deleted" above in BB's post:

Dear ad-mod,
don't get angry or run amok! I explain you that.

Jesus was sent to Earth because of the human kind lived in sin. He ought to die because God offered his only son to clean the mankind from their sins through Jesus' death. The church proclaims him as Gods son, BTW Jesus never said that he is the son of God!
This means when Jesus came to earth he had a mission or simply a job to do. But he failed, it was never his intention to tell people how they pray or even if they have to pray. Only one of the apostals - I don't know who and it does not matter at all if and who- asked Jesus to teach them a prayer to talk to God. This is the story behind "Our Father in Heaven". And this prayer is common to all human and not specific to christian religion.

So Jesus clearly did not fulfill the job. That is the reason why I wrote "dismiss him". My Boss won't wait to dismiss me if I fail to do the work I am intended for. What about you? Still complicated?

Well when I have to write after each and every word "folks, I am kidding" you'll be deleting that too! I start to like you, moderator.

Was it Qurida telling something about Imagination and Knowledge?

Oh, think twice, its another day for you and me in paradise - Phil Collins

[Bad Boy]

Hi
i dont know why whenever i quote God's words , it is edited.
And one guy is commenting like we are closed minded

Why you thinking in one side? Why it can be the real truth which i want to reveal you really never know.

That means you are closed minded for truth.
...

They are not fools .

[DELETED]

FINAL WARNING: Do not use use this Hub for preaching/propagation of any religion!

God's words ?
Order is only a part of Chaos! This is true. Truth is a part of a walloping lie!
We are not close minded for truth, we bear such an open mind where truth easily gets lost.
Yes, all these educated they are not fools only at their education but elsewhere they are idiots! tunnel vision!

[r_kk]

In most of the religious belief... the basic expectations are same.... relief from the sufferings of day to day life... and then very comfortable life after death.... Human doesn't want to an end... That fear makes human to create some superbeing...religions

If we look whether prayer brings anything real... I hope you all know the iranian twins operated two years back to separate the heads which was together from birth... The total world was praying... Even non-believer like me also wished for a scientific mirace... When first lady died after separation... I wished the second world to be alive... The total world... all iranian... including christians were praying... atlast she also died... no prayer was anwered... It is just an example... I can show many incidences like this... death of pastor son bitten by snakes.. Expectation of resurrection of father of Pentacostal priest and etc. Why Pope and many christian preachers (including Hindu holy men.. example "S"...) going to doctors when had suffered with illness... So just prayer doesn't provide solution... It gives mental strength... comfort which make human sprit more efficient to come of mental weekness... If miracle healers can cure... then we don't need hospitals... I know there are many christian blind people... Why they can't get eyes... I know no miracle healer can do... All are just fakes...

Then human believes some kind of sacrifice to God will get benifit from God... and consider one can be streghthened with simlar one..for example eating lions heart makes them brave... eating "chittukuruvi lekiam" will make them very active during.... This all old concepts and still believed in throughout the world... The height of sacrifice "is (in Just_hubber's" faith found) human sacrifice..."J"... and his blood save you from sin... It is extended version of animal sacrifice belief... What it gives... It allows you to be peacefull even if you did worst thing in lifes... In North India, many people who performed sin (including kills the female fetus) goes to Ganga and take bath in Kumbamela... This make them more comfortable... Is it correct? I feel getting just comfort is the dangerous part of religion..Instead it will better to be ready and bravely accept the punishment for your maistakes.... Your sins...it is your responsibity.. accept it... don't expect other to accept for your comfort...
I tried my best to give indirect and soft reply to "Just_hubber" and will wite more...based on others responses

[hehehewalrus]

Dear guys just_hubber and r_kk,
Understand your views and concerns. Just be patient, God will work out His purpose inspite of your beliefs.

The biggest miracle that God can do is to the human heart - it is much more than all the physical miracles of healing.
If God lives He changes people. The happy news is that He still does :D

True religion is service to others and total freedom from self-seeking.

[geno]

hey you changed your avatar..is this because of your comment to Nirosha Sen that you looked more like Kamal in that movie after the accident when she thought Nandakumar was you? :D

LOL @ Querida!! :D

Actually "nallA" of "anbE sivam" - was my original choice for avatar! :)


.I feel much happier thinking i am able to have a personal connection with God and doing good than going by the system but feeling nothing but exasperation...

Wonderful Querida!

And as Walrus & blahblah & r_kk says - guys!! just be cool! This thread was intended to be more of an informed debate / sharing of ideas - about the notion of God & its implications - than as a clash between various religions, or as a slate for "etching" any particular religious propaganda! :)

How i wish Rohit was here :(

[Cygnus]

geno you mean "Rohit " from oldhub, right?! :wink:

I wish KSS and Thiru would also come here too to 'expound' on string theory which they started in tiru's thiri :)

[blahblah]

Geno,its not a clash of religions but views.I belong to the same religion as this fellow called 'just_hubber'.It is a fight to preserve moderate thinking and to force a defeat on narrow minded fanatics.However,I would be glad to stay away from this thread inorder to preserve the comfortable atmosphere in this hub and leave these propagandists to the moderator.

[a.ratchasi]

Yeah, as mentioned by blahblah, this guy needs to come out of his shell by himself...till then........

[Roshan]

Anyways I really liked Anbae Sivam just for that reason...I feel much happier thinking i am able to have a personal connection with God and doing good than going by the system but feeling nothing but exasperation...

Well said Darl... !!! :D

[Sandeep]

Nice to see everybody is very 'active', including the moderator :lol:

[Hema]

yen entha santigam?

[Alisha]

yen entha santigam?

What to do ma, there are many people who doubt the existance of GOD. Little did they know that GOD is always there with them in their hearts wherelse they look for GOD thru their Heads.

[Bad Boy]

Nice to see everybody is very 'active', including the moderator :lol:

Greaaaat!
:lol: :lol:

[Alisha]

am not promoting christianity ,
i myself was like a atheist for sometimes ,

And now i changed i saw in my own eyes many witness and miracles not a fake one.

Dont tell everywhere they give money to fake

And there more than 10000 people get healed and witnessed by doctors.

especially nowadays because of skeptic people writing bad about "miracle healing"
There is doctor team to witness in every healing festival

And read about the one happened in chennai in 2002(merina) - Pastor Jae rock Lee and Benny Hinn in Bombay , there are million people grouped there in a Hindu country , the majority are not christians.

And dont need to read out the books mentioned about "atheism"
because i already know about the arguments of them.

There is answer for everything in Bible

May 2002, I was healed from Cervical Spondilosis ocurred in C5 and C6 at a Rally held at the Bukit Jalil Stadium by an Argentina Pastor.

I was going through great pain and surgical was recommended but I was not keen to have an operation because the doctor said that he only can guarantee 50% and not 100%.

I have shared that I was healed of Cervical Spondilosis in May 2000 and since than I felt the presence of God but my husband was not aware of what I went through at the back room of the place of event until god touched him one day..

In May 2000, I was slain by the Holy Spirit and was carried by the volunteers to the backroom of the Stadium however my husband and children were not allowed to accompany me. I was totally unaware of what was going on and after about twenty minutes I was prayed over by a couple and began to throw out and it was not only me but many others who were counseled by different couples.

I felt the presence of god and there was something in me that was struggling and I let it go and finally I when I was asked if I wanted to accept Lord and I said yes. I was not brain washed or anything like that however it was the presence of god that made me accept the lord.

My husband was waiting for more than an hour outside the back room and could not wait any longer so he dashed in to the back room with my two sons and he took me out saying that our friends that brought us and we will be guided by them.

Once I was out of the backroom, I took off my Collar which I was wearing and I just knew that I was healed and the group of friends who brought me were amazed.

My husband was totally unaware that I accepted Lord but strangely he asked me a question on our way back home after my healing,
Husband’s Question: Dear what will you say to your family and friends if they ask you how was your neck problem My Answer-If God healed me, he will take care of the rest and I am not going to worry about anything else.

Yes true enough my family never questioned me why I was not wearing the Collar or what happened to my check ups or my operation. God just blinded my family members for many months and nobody questioned me about my health until something happened.

I shall share that another day.

p.s. This is my experience that I am sharing so those who believe in GOD be encouraged while Unbelievers I leave to God to touch you.

[hehehewalrus]

[p.s. This is my experience that I am sharing so those who believe in GOD be encouraged while Unbelievers I leave to God to touch you.

Hey Alisha,
thanks for sharing that :D I have been researching these events(divine healing/slain-in-the-spirit/anointing) all over the world for years and years - in fact more than a decade. I've studied several videos and more than videos, watched these events right on the stage just a few feet away in close to a dozen different cities. I approach them with a willing mindset but I use a stringently rational basis(like a Ph.D thesis) to evaluate them - I let neither my scientific or religious mind dominate the other. Have participated in several dozen detailed discussions all over the net(forumhub is really nothing!!!) on them - have travelled several hundred miles on occasions to make my evaluations. Overall I have examined more than 100 cases atleast. I can easily distinguish a genuine case from a fake one like hypnotism/tricks of the mind/imagination, etc.

This subject is something as detailed as for example, the science of Aerodynamics. We can study Aerodynamics from different angles and it will take few months/years to understand the details. What I notice here is actually like some person who comes to a high level conference on Aerodynamics and bluntly says "Gravity doesnt exist" so there is no such thing like Aerodynamics !!

Reminded of my schoolmate who told me - "My greatest desire is that the guy who discovered Chemistry, Physics and Biology should come to our school and say 'It's all humbug, I only lied about them' - Then they will remove Phy/Chem/Bio from our schools and we neednt learn them at all! " :lol: :lol:

[r_kk]

It is good to know that you have some experience with God... But no one else can verify it.... It is your personal feelings... If I have to accept your story as real, then I have to accept so many stories...

I have tons of simailar stories (true life stories)... I can write lot... But no end to it. You will straightforwardly reject that others are fake since it doesn't involve your christian god. For example... the famous muscian Ar. R . Rahman's father came out his severe illness after praying to Allah, before that he had visited so many temples and churches.. That was the reason his family had converted to Islam...Who is more powerful? Are Allah or your God same?

I will write many real life stories like this with other religious God involved. Even I had seen a lady who could able to see and speak to Lord Muruga!! Can you believe it? My family also believe in God... and they pray wheneven some one is in trouble... Many times their problems wers solved? Is it enough to believe? Is God necessary to cure human day-to-day suffering? Why so many small kids are haveing crule diseases? Why God is not mercy on them?


What all you say? Do you think that only your case is real or all real? Can you able to demonstrate your life story to the people who are eager to verify ( for ex. J. Randi). I can inform them to contact you to understand what is the truth behind it?

Sorry... as long as it is your personal expereince... no can question but when you say to the world... you should be ready to prove... Till it is proved without doubt, please don't say or threten the non belivers by saying that you will understand only when God touches you or God impose some big happenings.

[Alisha]

It is good to know that you have some experience with God... But no one else can verify it.... It is your personal feelings... If I have to accept your story as real, then I have to accept so many stories...

I have tons of simailar stories (true life stories)... I can write lot... But no end to it. You will straightforwardly reject that others are fake since it doesn't involve your christian god. For example... the famous muscian Ar. R . Rahman's father came out his severe illness after praying to Allah, before that he had visited so many temples and churches.. That was the reason his family had converted to Islam...Who is more powerful? Are Allah or your God same?

I will write many real life stories like this with other religious God involved. Even I had seen a lady who could able to see and speak to Lord Muruga!! Can you believe it? My family also believe in God... and they pray wheneven some one is in trouble... Many times their problems wers solved? Is it enough to believe? Is God necessary to cure human day-to-day suffering? Why so many small kids are haveing crule diseases? Why God is not mercy on them?


What all you say? Do you think that only your case is real or all real? Can you able to demonstrate your life story to the people who are eager to verify ( for ex. J. Randi). I can inform them to contact you to understand what is the truth behind it?

Sorry... as long as it is your personal expereince... no can question but when you say to the world... you should be ready to prove... Till it is proved without doubt, please don't say or threten the non belivers by saying that you will understand only when God touches you or God impose some big happenings.

Relationship with god is personal.

I have no right to say that Allah or Lord Muruga is real compared to Christ .

There are somethings that I can't share in detail due to the restriction of this hub.

Just keep your fingers cross and May Lord show you the truth.

[hehehewalrus]

It is good to know that you have some experience with God... But no one else can verify it.... It is your personal feelings... If I have to accept your story as real, then I have to accept so many stories... I have tons of simailar stories (true life stories)... I can write lot... But no end to it. You will straightforwardly reject that others are fake since it doesn't involve your christian god.

Dear r_kk, for your kind information the good friend I told you about - he is not a christian! In fact he is an expert in meditation. Now I know nothing about meditation but I have seen several cases of meditation experts going into the supernatural. According to them, when you are in an advanced mental state, you can easily spot out vibrations outside of natural things like time/space/etc - for instance you will easily see into the future. Have you heard of Ashok Iyengar's narration - he's the guy who detected the evil happening in Saibaba ashram through strong mental powers. Will post a link to that later.

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/soc.culture.indian/browse_frm/thread/acb6b60d4d84ed3d/df824064a86fcc8e?tvc=1&q=ashok+saibaba&_done=%2Fgroups%3Fq%3Dashok+saibaba%26&_doneTitle=Back+to+Search&scrollSave=&&d#df824064a86fcc8e

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/soc.culture.indian.telugu/browse_frm/thread/aedabb009c2e5321/e50d61c88c13580e?q=ashok+personal+story&_done=%2Fgroups%3Fq%3Dashok+personal+story%26&_doneTitle=Back+to+Search&&d#e50d61c88c13580e


Also note one more thing - healing is not the only means to decide on God. Nor is God the only source of healing. There are different layers in the spiritual world - for eg the Nadi Josiyars, many of whom are not religious - how do they get this information? Are you saying that black magic doesnt exist? Supernatural happenings can come from both good and evil sources.

"Is God necessary to cure human day-to-day suffering? Why so many small kids are haveing crule diseases? Why God is not mercy on them?"
This I will explain later in the week as it will take me several minutes to type.



What all you say? Do you think that only your case is real or all real? Can you able to demonstrate your life story to the people who are eager to verify ( for ex. J. Randi). I can inform them to contact you to understand what is the truth behind it?

Definitely you can. I bet my evaluation standard will be stricter than his :lol:



Till it is proved without doubt, please don't say or threten the non belivers by saying that you will understand only when God touches you or God impose some big happenings.
I dont think Alisha was threatening anyone. Whether unbelievers accept or not, it hardly means a thing to a believer!! I personally think God loves disagreement thats why He lets so much diversity in the universe :lol: A healthy spirit of disagreement and discussion is always good anywhere

[r_kk]

Thanks alisha,
As long as it is personal, no question about it.... Every one has some thing personal to believe a particular religion and the problem is because recent christianity is started telling others are false... (just_hubber example)..Thats what I wanted to mention...

It is all up to you....

[hehehewalrus]

r_kk,
I understand that one of your major concern is that there is no consistency among supernatural happenings. That is what I notice in most of your posts. And I suppose the majority of devotees you came across in real life didnt exhibit much consistency in their lives - many devotees are polite when they go to a place of worship, very soft and nice and totally different when they are at work or home - they live as if god doesnt exist ! :)

It takes a lot of experience and maturity to understand God's purposes. Being a devotee doesnt mean you feel happy when you get your prayer answered, new job, good salary good thing happening every day. Only the mature know what it is to smile and be content in every circumstance, even when rough things happen. Personally for me, my life was ten times more comfortable when I was a communist compared to now, but I am still happy despite my problems :)

[r_kk]

Thane he3 too...
atlast we came to the correct point from a believer... It is correct... I had seen many of my friends saying that they are blessed when they attended prayers... they got /felt this that... but if looks his character behind the screen... oops you wil be surprised how these guys are called blessed? I am expecting a very kind hearted selfless non hatred person sayin that they are belessed.... I accept they are blessed whether it is by God or not. Thats is out of question... I admire to those people independent of whether the believe God or not. Not to the miracle healers...

[Bad Boy]

In march 2003 I stood for 4 days with a catholic priest in the jungles of Sri Lanka. Of course we had to discuss this topic too. He finally asked me if I have studied theology. I only said instead of watching bullshit movies or reading others books and getting influenced to others oppinion I sit outside and watch the people and make my own decissions. I do also compare us apes with the jungle apes, there is not a big diffrence in our behaviour.They also gather together and got to war with the neighbouring clans. First learn to see and then to believe. He priest accepted my point of view.

Why do people go to sunday services and the very next minute they disrespect each other? Do you really need a picture or statue or lingam to pray for? What is a prayer? What is meditating? What is God? Who is God?

[geno]

Geno,its not a clash of religions but views.I belong to the same religion as this fellow called 'just_hubber'.It is a fight to preserve moderate thinking and to force a defeat on narrow minded fanatics.However,I would be glad to stay away from this thread inorder to preserve the comfortable atmosphere in this hub and leave these propagandists to the moderator.

blahblah! :)

I knew you were the "moderate" voice! :)

I didnt mean your engaging of Just_hubber when i said "clash of religions".

I was only urging our friends here - not to invite the fanatics of any of the religious shades - by discussing religious details rather than contemplating on the "super natural" and the veracity of it! :)

walrus, :)

cool! you have been "evaluating" many of these super-natural "acts" from upclose!

I must say - that your point of view - that of a balance between the rational & emotional side with neither "dominating" the other - is a fresh new perspective.

Miracles and faith-healing - of any particular faith - can at best be associated with a "religious" outlook - and i personally, cant see how it would aid in articulating the "spiritual" issues - as you have rightly pointed out.

I can see that we depart in our "interpretations" somewhere down the line - but as you have noted "diversities" are the flavor of this universe aint it? :D

By the way - chenthamizhan has given a kavimani desigavinayakam pillai - kavithai - in the "Ulagam" thread which is very sublime and related to this discussion :)

You are invited to write there too - whenever it is possible for you! :)

Bad boy, :)

Your latest post here made an engrossing read :)

Questions, questions and more questions - make your head swirl a lot aint it?! :) - but it takes a lot of courage to take the "road less travelled" and into the "Jungles"!! bravo boy! :)

As for my own "crossing over" to the "skeptical" country - well even though the "travel" started when i was young, i went thru 'analog' phases!

It wasn't swishhh! and im on this side - anything like that - but from a "by default believer"(when u r kid - u dont make ur choice aint it?!!) - i went thru the "agnosticist" bumpers all the way - and i've watched myself arriving where i am - perfectly at ease with myself! :)

Stephen hawking writes thus concluding his legendary "A brief History of time" :


Einstein once asked the question: "How much choice did God have in constructing the universe?"

Even if there is only one possible unified theory, it is just a set of rules and equations. What is it that breathes fire into the equations and makes a universe for them to describe?... Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Is the unified theory so compelling that it brings about its own existence? Or does it need a creator, and, if so, does he have any other effect on the universe? And who created him? .....

....................................

... if we do discover a complete theory, it should in time be understandable in broad principle by everyone, not just a few scientists. Then we shall all, philosophers, scientists, and just ordinary people, be able to take part in the discussion of the question of why it is that we and the universe exist. If we find the answer to that, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason - for then we would know the mind of God.

Well "the mind of God" is like the hieroglyphics of the most complex order and variety as of now!!

The "truth" is still "out there" - and lets hope to go "where no man has gone before"!! :)

[Alisha]

[quote=Alisha]
Even Jesus, "the son of God" never said that he is the son of God. But he said "the way to MY God is within ME". I hope you understand that.



Brother BAD BOY,

Sorry I cannot accept your statement that Jesus never said that he was not the Son of GOD.

You got to check the facts brother and it is stated in the word of god.

[r_kk]

Dear all,
Just_hubber is posting his cult views in "Evolution or God" link.
For more details about his cult, read that section
Then Alisha,
In order to understand you experience with God, I need some small informations. How does that holy experience had changed your personal life? Are you so kind to others? How much percentage of salary you donate to the poor and needy people? Are you unattached with the materialistic life?

Because I have seem many people in all religion with similar kind of experience (from tribal voodo to latest advanced religions and cults) and it can be explained with science but you will not accept. Since people feel experience with God as more personnel (for example... Mahatma Gandhi said he can hear his inner voice and it guidance.... he tries to be honest till his death and believed it.). I can't comment any of the personal experience... even I had seen my grandma had very close link with supernatural of different belief....but I know she was very honest and simple lady propgating love to every one she met, even though I didn't accept her faith) Finally people are judged by others words... not by their own words...

[hehehewalrus]

Dear all,
Just_hubber is posting his cult views in "Evolution or God" link.
For more details about his cult, read
[deleted]


Dear r_kk,
I thought you are much more mature than your postings. Please dont use cheap sites to support your views - there are all kinds of pages on the internet. This is the home page of that site - [deleted]

There is a lot of filthy language and pornography in that site - Do not open unless you really want to!

EXAMINE ALL THINGS FROM ALL ANGLES, dont just select even cheap and shameful websites to support your views!!!! How can you even select a porn site as a standard for judgement???? What I am seeing is a level of atheistic propoganda which is far worse than religious propoganda, I am sorry to say.

[hehehewalrus]

How does that holy experience had changed your personal life? Are you so kind to others? How much percentage of salary you donate to the poor and needy people? Are you unattached with the materialistic life?

Dear r_kk,
These questions are extremely childish and personal. It is obvious from Alisha's postings that she is receptive and can appreciate charitable things. There is no need to force her to publicly explain her personal choices!!!
I wonder what others think of such posts...

[Alisha]

Buddha was a normal person and he went in search for God and when he received the light of god he started telling people about GOD and it was written down.
What did his followers do? Instead of worshipping god, people ended up worshipping Buddha.

Same scenario for Vivekanda Swami, he was in search of god and it is believed that he saw Jesus and Kalli Amma (he was a Kalli Worshipper). What did his followers do? The Ramakrishnan worldwide organisation worship Vivekanda and Swami Ramakrishnan and follow their theory instead of Worshipping to the Mighty GOD.

What about Muslims, the Nabi Muhammad prohibited man kind to worship to Idols but what do they do? All Muslims face the Kaabah to worship and that's another way of worshipping to idols.

After the Noah incident GOD promised man kind that he will never ever do that again and that's why GOD never repeated NOAH again.

GOD is a gentlemen and that's why he never took back the power given to Satan who was once his Main angel to carry out GOD's duty. GOD too gives us the choices to choose so can't blame him for the happenings around the world saying what GOD was doing while this happened and that happened. The September 11 incident brought many people closer to GOD and many people escaped death because GOD did indicate many that have testified that they were saved from death.

Satan has power too and that's the same power GOD gave him to fulfill GOD's purposes however SATAN wanted to be more powerful than GOD so he is carrying out his mission but he was defeated long time ago when Jesus died on the cross and became alive after three days.

My children makes mistakes but I still LOVE them and that's the same case whereby someone might be calling ALLAH, BUDDHA, AMMAN, SIVAN but GOD answers everybody's prayers.

It's not important WHAT you pray but the most important thing is whether you have that relationship with GOD. The truth remains the truth however if people choose to believe and worship what they have in mind it's their choice but of course god to face the consequences.

I will share me own experience about the POWER a MAN posses in the name of god using TRANS when I am available.

[r_kk]

As usual...
Sorry he3...
I was trying to be fast in replying with so much of other jobs to do... I just opened that web site and saw only the first page... It is a mistake.... Now I will take more time...and read carefully before posting... I request others not to open the link I had attached in my previous posts...

Regading alisha...
There should be some kind of explantion is required to justify some thing... he3... then please explain how one can be judged...if everyone says that it is their personal experience, then one can find the correctness...I don't want her to tell by exposing any of her personal identity... In general...
Any ways... Sorry.... I am also lowered to just_hubber level since I tried to argue at his level...I will correct myself

[Alisha]

Then Alisha,
In order to understand you experience with God, I need some small informations. How does that holy experience had changed your personal life? Are you so kind to others? How much percentage of salary you donate to the poor and needy people? Are you unattached with the materialistic life?

Because I have seem many people in all religion with similar kind of experience (from tribal voodo to latest advanced religions and cults) and it can be explained with science but you will not accept. Since people feel experience with God as more personnel (for example... Mahatma Gandhi said he can hear his inner voice and it guidance.... he tries to be honest till his death and believed it.). I can't comment any of the personal experience... even I had seen my grandma had very close link with supernatural of different belief....but I know she was very honest and simple lady propgating love to every one she met, even though I didn't accept her faith) Finally people are judged by others words... not by their own words...

Brother,

I will definetly share my experience if that will make you happy however I got to be cautious because the Moderator will think that I am preaching Religion.

What should I do?

Please advise.

[r_kk]

One request, please don't attach/quote with the web link I had given in my post... I came to know it is some low level propganta... I also want a healthy discussion here...

Then... Alisha, your previous response is good... and show at least you have some broad mind to accept more religious belief... Then I will to t\your writtings on Buddha... after some time.... I feel I should not be in hurry to response, which makes mistakes... and excuses a,d so many sorry..

[Alisha]

How does that holy experience had changed your personal life? Are you so kind to others? How much percentage of salary you donate to the poor and needy people? Are you unattached with the materialistic life?

Dear r_kk,
These questions are extremely childish and personal. It is obvious from Alisha's postings that she is receptive and can appreciate charitable things. There is no need to force her to publicly explain her personal choices!!!
I wonder what others think of such posts...

It's okay Walrus, I will share the truth as that's nothing to hide.

[hehehewalrus]

I feel I should not be in hurry to response, which makes mistakes... and excuses a,d so many sorry..

r_kk, it's allright, these mistakes happen..continue to share with us your views and questions. Sorry if my post was harsh :(

Alisha and others,
while there is nothing wrong in honest minded people sharing their personal lives, this hub has sadly been a place of intense hatred and violence for 6-7 years!! It is never safe to reveal one's real identity or location anywhere on the internet.

[r_kk]

What Siddhartha had become is Enlightened Buddha… It is similar to understanding the ultimate triumph of human reason…(similar to Stephen hawking …. Explanation if we do discover a complete theory, it should in time be understandable in broad principle by everyone, not just a few scientists. Then we shall all, philosophers, scientists, and just ordinary people, be able to take part in the discussion of the question of why it is that we and the universe exist. If we find the answer to that, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason - for then we would know the mind of God).

I read so many books but I never found Buddha had supported our day-to-day interacting God theory as Alisha wrote…

Then, there are big questions exists regarding historical Jesus.. and resurrection incidences… and concept of Satan… “J” blood saving people from Sin (blood-sin –sacrifice)… miracles… I have so many questions and myself personally asked to so many preachers… (no answers except got blamed myself as “S”). So Alisha, I request you to be ready to reply before explaining your true life miracle, without feeling bad. As per Islamic thoughts, Jesus is not last prophet or part of God he is just one of the prophet sent before last and final Prophet Nabi. Jesus is only for jews (dispersed sheep… not for others… even “J” accepted when he refused to bless Kanonite (Canonite) Lady)… As per Islamic belief, he didn’t die on cross…. God staged the show just that’s all. Jesus and God are separate and he is just one of the God’s prophet. His blood will not save or do any thing. Only God can do… He is also like Buddha or Ram or any prophet (as Bhakai /Ahamdya movement says)… We should have faith only in ultimate God… not the prophets… We can have just respect and belief on their words since it was God's word. Is it correct basis to go ahead the discussion?

[adsort]

Hi Guys,

Good discussion, pretty big too. :( Took me nearly 30 minutes to read the whole thread.

[just_hubber]

R_Kk level is so down to browse porn sites to points?? i wasted time to respond him.

r_kk
i never beleive in any man as you mentioned, I make it clear i trust only GOD, Jesus , even when the miracles are happening on Jesus Name
It is my beleif and my own faith , i am not forcing you at any place.
i feel wasted my time for responding to you(as i can see your level)

I have so many families praying for me , so you dont have to worry about me.

Finally , if you even come after few years here in the HUb please use the same Nick "r_kk"
Just to see , is there any changes in your life and mind, Thats all so dont comment anything about me as i have nothing do with you and your views , even i post something i will post for others not for you, so i never want any review of my post from you, because i can see you are attacking personally instead of arguing
thats it.

[Alisha]

Then, there are big questions exists regarding historical Jesus.. and resurrection incidences… and concept of Satan… “J” blood saving people from Sin (blood-sin –sacrifice)… miracles… I have so many questions and myself personally asked to so many preachers… (no answers except got blamed myself as “S”). So Alisha, I request you to be ready to reply before explaining your true life miracle, without feeling bad. As per Islamic thoughts, Jesus is not last prophet or part of God he is just one of the prophet sent before last and final Prophet Nabi. Jesus is only for jews (dispersed sheep… not for others… even “J” accepted when he refused to bless Kanonite (Canonite) Lady)… As per Islamic belief, he didn’t die on cross…. God staged the show just that’s all. Jesus and God are separate and he is just one of the God’s prophet. His blood will not save or do any thing. Only God can do… He is also like Buddha or Ram or any prophet (as Bhakai /Ahamdya movement says)… We should have faith only in ultimate God… not the prophets… We can have just respect and belief on their words since it was God's word. Is it correct basis to go ahead the discussion?

That's what the Muslim's believe, is that the truth? There is only one Truth can't be too many.

CONFUSION is another way that Satan use to DECEIVE people .

[r_kk]

Dear Just_hubber,
As I worte earlier, I had found the saite when I was searching for your cult!!! Soory What I can do... I never expected it was part of some porno site... I accepted this fact....
You haven't given any proper response.... Only jistifying the wrong with some of minor mistakes... I have given ton of reason that you are not correct...
After all let others know....

[Roshan]

CONFUSION is another way that Satan use to DECEIVE people .

Yeah! I can see that :wink: and that's how St.Paul confused the whole Christian world !!

[r_kk]

Satan.... Sorry Alisha.... can you please explain more... Is islamic belief correct? Why can't Jesus be part of prophet series? What is called sin? Is it possible to list out some sin (because each religion it is different... In Hindu belief killing a Cow is sin... but it is not in others belief..)..
then Just_hubber, be cool. You try to read all my threads and tell me what changes you had find? Except inserting the wrong web link found seraching the cults, how my arquements are wrong? Now you are telling that you haven't supported JR Lee,( Dubai miracle festival)? Any way, it is up to you... Respond or don't respond...

[Alisha]

Dear all,
Just_hubber is posting his cult views in "Evolution or God" link.
For more details about his cult, read that section
Then Alisha,
In order to understand you experience with God, I need some small informations. How does that holy experience had changed your personal life? Are you so kind to others? How much percentage of salary you donate to the poor and needy people? Are you unattached with the materialistic life?

Because I have seem many people in all religion with similar kind of experience (from tribal voodo to latest advanced religions and cults) and it can be explained with science but you will not accept. Since people feel experience with God as more personnel (for example... Mahatma Gandhi said he can hear his inner voice and it guidance.... he tries to be honest till his death and believed it.). I can't comment any of the personal experience... even I had seen my grandma had very close link with supernatural of different belief....but I know she was very honest and simple lady propgating love to every one she met, even though I didn't accept her faith) Finally people are judged by others words... not by their own words...

What the Muslims belief and what is stated in the word of God is totally different about Jesus. Let’s not bring up that issue than we will be going into Religion.

Let’s keep the discussion on personal experience and what we know, so you choose to believe what the muslims believe and that’s fine with me however the truth can be only one. What is the truth ? I found it and you are still struggling, that's all.

It’s in the word of GOD how god trusted man to be his Messiah but all failed him starting from Adam, Abraham, King David, and that’s why he had to send his only Son who had not sinned at all. Jesus lived a normal live as a carpenter and as a son to Mary and Joseph.

Reading the word of GOD revealed that being patient is essential as getting angry is like giving an invitation to Satan to take over so I try my level best to put up with all the annoying people.

My husband and I have a giving nature and when we can afford we honor all the request by our siblings, relations which comes in the form of gift, money and time so that remains even after we had accepted the lord. I cannot say that I changed after accepting the lord because I have been doing since the day I had something to give away.

GOD healed and touched me however that did not happen to my husband . It was a difficult time to handle especially during the transit period from our old belief towars the lord so I do understand your concern on the issue GOD.

[Alisha]

Satan.... Sorry Alisha.... can you please explain more... Is islamic belief correct? Why can't Jesus be part of prophet series? What is called sin? Is it possible to list out some sin (because each religion it is different... In Hindu belief killing a Cow is sin... but it is not in others belief..)..
then Just_hubber, be cool. You try to read all my threads and tell me what changes you had find? Except inserting the wrong web link found seraching the cults, how my arquements are wrong? Now you are telling that you haven't supported JR Lee,( Dubai miracle festival)? Any way, it is up to you... Respond or don't respond...

I love to respond brother however I got lots of things to do.

I will catch with you once I can.

[sonu gopi]

All religious prophets, gurus and saints are actually messengers of GOD.

They came down to earth to preach what HE instructed. We pray to these divine beings to reach God who is eternal through different paths and teachings. :lol: :lol:

*********
SONU GOPI :)

[Alisha]

Satan.... Sorry Alisha.... can you please explain more... Is islamic belief correct? Why can't Jesus be part of prophet series? What is called sin? Is it possible to list out some sin (because each religion it is different... In Hindu belief killing a Cow is sin... but it is not in others belief..)..
then Just_hubber, be cool. You try to read all my threads and tell me what changes you had find? Except inserting the wrong web link found seraching the cults, how my arquements are wrong? Now you are telling that you haven't supported JR Lee,( Dubai miracle festival)? Any way, it is up to you... Respond or don't respond...

One at a time,what do you want to know about Satan?

[hehehewalrus]

As per Islamic belief, he didn’t die on cross…. God staged the show just that’s all. Jesus and God are separate and he is just one of the God’s prophet. His blood will not save or do any thing. Only God can do… He is also like Buddha or Ram or any prophet (as Bhakai /Ahamdya movement says)… We should have faith only in ultimate God… not the prophets… We can have just respect and belief on their words since it was God's word. Is it correct basis to go ahead the discussion?

r_kk,
you have very very serious conceptual problems here. I am curious to know what sources you accept as basis. anyway good of u to express :) wait for weekend. we can debate this at lenght

regarding Jesus's authencity on his birth, resureection, claim to be God, we need to evaluate his claim, whether its true. thats a good starting point. No other individual in the world claimed to be God like he did.

this needs evaluation - so whats the framework for our examination? needs to be looked at.

[r_kk]

Hi he3,
Basically as on today, I do not have belief in any religion.... I have moved around various religions and followed many philosophers and even few hindu cults too...The above are based on a particular islamic sect. Now I am free from that too.

If ypou have time, read Ahamdiya's arguments.... They call for open challange to Christians on mnay Jesus related issues. Till now no has accepted the challange. Their questions are very reasonable.

http://www.alislam.org/

(note: I don't support them fully)

My concept is even though not so clear, some what clear.... very simple too... Since Alisha wrote about various religious belief, I started like this. I have much diferent opinion about Nabi also...

Bible and Christianity also impressed me during childhood but my scientific reasoning didn't accept it... Have you ever read Earl Doherty's book on J and Randi's book on miracle healers. I also did lot of study on miracle healers of all religious seck and my findings are not positive towards God. But at the same time the basic question in science also still remain. So I am skeptic and just honest to my heart and say whatever I find as reasonable without lieing.
Ok, we can discuss

[Roshan]

I read so many books but I never found Buddha had supported our day-to-day interacting God theory as Alisha wrote

Yes Exactly!!! I too have read and have not found anything of that sort!



As per Islamic thoughts, Jesus is not last prophet or part of God he is just one of the prophet sent before last and final Prophet Nabi. Jesus is only for jews (dispersed sheep… not for others… even “J” accepted when he refused to bless Kanonite (Canonite) Lady)… As per Islamic belief, he didn’t die on cross…. God staged the show just that’s all. Jesus and God are separate and he is just one of the God’s prophet. His blood will not save or do any thing. Only God can do… He is also like Buddha or Ram or any prophet (as Bhakai /Ahamdya movement says)… We should have faith only in ultimate God… not the prophets… We can have just respect and belief on their words since it was God's word.


All what you have said is correct and I would like to add more to it. Every Muslim has to believe in Jesus's miraculous birth and accept him as a Messenger of God - if not he wil not be considered a Muslim. Muslims further believe that Jesus will be descended to earth ( according to Islamic belief he was not crucified but ascended) as a messenger of God.

Quran explains extensively about Jesus, his miraculous birth, mission , how he was ascended and how he would be descended to earth. Comparatively Quaran says more about Jesus's and His mother Mary thanProphet Muhammed (Prophet Muhammed's name is mentioned only in 5 instances but Jesus's name is mentioned in more than 25 instances ) The only female name mentioned in the Quran is Mariyam ( that is Mother Mary) and there's a separate chapter titled 'Sura Mariyam' and a chapter titled 'Sura Al Imran' - the second longest chapter.

'Al Imran' extennsively explains about Mother Mary's father - Imran and his family and the extent of devotion of the family members towards the Almighty.

According to Quran, out of all families of the messengers, the most honoured families, by God are - Adams, Abrahams, Noahs and Imrans. Not even Prophet Muhammed's.

[r_kk]

Thanks Roshan, atlast one to say what I am saying is reasonable (not my personal conceptual problem)... I will write more in detail with proofs... any one know there are books relating Adam to great Indian God? I will come at the last.... when people discuss without biased....

then for sister (once you said brother, I accept it) Alisha,

The following questions may looks like silly may be childish too… but it is necessary to know before discussing this subject. It is up to you… you need not to answer too…
1. Are there two equal super beings called God and Satan? Are they equally powered or Satan is lesser powerful?
2. If so, who created Satan? Why?
3. If God created Satan, whether God knows that he is creating a devil? If God doesn’t know that he will become devil?
4. Is it possible for God to destroy Satan directly without sending his sons. Prophets etc?
5. What all considered Satan’s act? Is it possible to list out some?
6. What all God’s acts? Is it possible to list out some?
If you know any of the above, please explain with honest to your heart. Don’t refer holy books, preacher’s quote.. etc? Please explain only what you know or feel.

[Alisha]

[quote=r_kk]

I read so many books but I never found Buddha had supported our day-to-day interacting God theory as Alisha wrote

Yes Exactly!!! I too have read and have not found anything of that sort!





Roshan,

Could you eloborate on that.

[Alisha]

Buddha was a normal person and he went in search for God and when he received the light of god he started telling people about GOD and it was written down.
What did his followers do? Instead of worshipping god, people ended up worshipping Buddha.

.

Roshan,

This was my statement.

[Alisha]

am not promoting christianity ,
i myself was like a atheist for sometimes ,

And now i changed i saw in my own eyes many witness and miracles not a fake one.

Dont tell everywhere they give money to fake

And there more than 10000 people get healed and witnessed by doctors.

especially nowadays because of skeptic people writing bad about "miracle healing"
There is doctor team to witness in every healing festival

And read about the one happened in chennai in 2002(merina) - Pastor Jae rock Lee and Benny Hinn in Bombay , there are million people grouped there in a Hindu country , the majority are not christians.

And dont need to read out the books mentioned about "atheism"
because i already know about the arguments of them.

There is answer for everything in Bible

May 2002, I was healed from Cervical Spondilosis ocurred in C5 and C6 at a Rally held at the Bukit Jalil Stadium by an Argentina Pastor.

I was going through great pain and surgical was recommended but I was not keen to have an operation because the doctor said that he only can guarantee 50% and not 100%.

I have shared that I was healed of Cervical Spondilosis in May 2000 and since than I felt the presence of God but my husband was not aware of what I went through at the back room of the place of event until god touched him one day..

In May 2000, I was slain by the Holy Spirit and was carried by the volunteers to the backroom of the Stadium however my husband and children were not allowed to accompany me. I was totally unaware of what was going on and after about twenty minutes I was prayed over by a couple and began to throw out and it was not only me but many others who were counseled by different couples.

I felt the presence of god and there was something in me that was struggling and I let it go and finally I when I was asked if I wanted to accept Lord and I said yes. I was not brain washed or anything like that however it was the presence of god that made me accept the lord.

My husband was waiting for more than an hour outside the back room and could not wait any longer so he dashed in to the back room with my two sons and he took me out saying that our friends that brought us and we will be guided by them.

Once I was out of the backroom, I took off my Collar which I was wearing and I just knew that I was healed and the group of friends who brought me were amazed.

My husband was totally unaware that I accepted Lord but strangely he asked me a question on our way back home after my healing,
Husband’s Question: Dear what will you say to your family and friends if they ask you how was your neck problem My Answer-If God healed me, he will take care of the rest and I am not going to worry about anything else.

Yes true enough my family never questioned me why I was not wearing the Collar or what happened to my check ups or my operation. God just blinded my family members for many months and nobody questioned me about my health until something happened.

I shall share that another day.

p.s. This is my experience that I am sharing so those who believe in GOD be encouraged while Unbelievers I leave to God to touch you.

Our business partner who is also a Medical doctor who brought us to the rally sensed that my cervical was not a medical problem but spiritual. After the healing, strangely my husband could not pray they way he use to and I never said a word but the word of god I believe changed him. We read the word of god and were inspired and this went on for a few months since my healing in May 2000.

It was around October 2000, I accidentally met a lady and shared my experience and later found out that her husband was a pastor and by end of the year 2000 we had a good relationship with this couple.

This couple was awesome couple and was a good friend of us beside our business partner. God still did not touch my husband but he was getting to know him and suddenly something happened beginning of year 2001.

It was early morning about 5.00 am beginning of the Year 2001, I had dream and heard a voice saying that IT was going to take away my two sons away and to that I responded that by the blood of Jesus they will be saved. I have never said such a statement before in my life however I sensed a comforting feeling like the lord saying I will take care of that. I woke up and went to the wash room to get ready to work and I totally forgot about the voice or the statement that I had said in my dream.

I came out of my wash room and my second son who was only 1-½ years old woke up crying. I went to the bedroom to carry him and realised that he had a stomach upset and that he had passed motion so my husband and I decided to wait and see before going off to work. We took him to the doctor and left him with my mum to go to work about 10.00 am but it was hardly five minutes my mum called us to come back home saying that our son was suddenly looking pale and that she was getting uncomfortable. When we saw him, true enough he was very weak and was just lying on his coat without many movements.

We rushed our son to the a private hospital as he was purging and was becoming very weak, the pediatrician took a blood test and informed us later in the afternoon that he had been attacked by a some kind of virus and there is no medication for that except for putting him on drips and said that he would not want to treat our son if the condition worsened and warned that we might need to take him to the government hospital.

Only when the doctor said that my son was in a serious condition, I remembered about my dream that I had that morning and shared it with my husband. I called our friends, the pastor and his wife, doctor friend and another good friend of mine who had silently prayed for my cervical recovery before my healing.

Within one hour, my friend and her husband were at the hospital praying over my son and me and my mother and dad were totally shocked to see that. My parents were totaly unaware about my recovery from cervical spondilosis recovery or that we had stopped praying at home or going to temples. My friend and her husband said that it was time for my husband and myself to make a decision which way we wanted to follow and that we cannot be sitting on the fence and the same statement was passed by the pastor and his wife.

My husband was still undecided until my eldest son who was 3 and ½ years had the same attack. I vowed to follow the way of the lord and my husband too with full heart asked the lord to heal our children. I remembered about my vision and the voice saying that IT wanted take away my sons however I just kept confessing the statement which I had unknowingly mentioned in my dream “ By the blood of Jesus they will be saved. I just asked GOD to protect my sons and heal them and to remove the fear of the doctor so that he will treat my sons in the hospital as I could not imagine myself spending nights at the government hospital.

Every night Pastor and his wife came over to the hospital and prayed over our children and at the same time my friends were also praying and after 5 days both my sons walked out of the hospital like nothing happened.

Once we were back home, my husband made a decision and stand that no matter what, he wanted to follow the path of the LORD and after nearly 9 months of not doing any rituals at our room which was known as a mini temple by every one that visited our home, we decided to clean up and turn our house to a HOUSE OF THE LORD.

We did not question GOD why my children was suffering instead I knew that they will be healed just like how I was and trusted the LORD for every single blessings he had given me.

[Roshan]

Thanks Roshan, atlast one to say what I am saying is reasonable (not my personal conceptual problem)... I will write more in detail with proofs... any one know there are books relating Adam to great Indian God? I will come at the last.... when people discuss without biased....

r_kk, You have put forward the right information regarding the Islamic view on Jesus - which most of the Muslims and Christians are not aware of. I jsut tried to add a bit to it from what I've learnt. This could be discussed extensively but I dont think this is the 'right' place for any kind of religious related discussions.

As long as this thread is concerned I was a silent reader all these days. Though I believe in GOD I have found the views of some rationalists like Rohith, geno , mellon, cygnus et al interesting. It helped me see the other side of the spectrum.

But of late I see some indiviuals trying to hijack this thread by trying to force their beliefs(?) on others . Fine if they stop at that point but they are displaying their half baked knowledge on others' beliefs. They are half baked even when their own beliefs are concerned - which is a different story altogether :wink:

This thread is slowly getting 'converted' as a place for religious propoganda - which i hate most - what ever religion it may be. I was basically provoked by the half baked stuff of people like Alisha.

This thread should be a place to discuss the existance and non existance of God and not to for any kind of relgious propoganda. This kind of religious propoganda - with half baked knowledge- would only lead to unnecessary arguments and fights - which I would never want to see.

[r_kk]

Sister Alisha,
Thanks for your explanations regarding the miracle cure. I still consider as individual belief… not as a proof of Gods presence. I doesn’t matter to you I know.

Let me explain some…
Why Lord Venketeshwara of Tirupathy gains lot of people? Why Nagur or Ajmeer Islamic worshiping places are fully with people with prayer? There are thousands of similar story to tell. Do you accept that they are not telling lie? Can you please reply?

Do you say if we call God through “J”, then only he respond?

I have my own life stories to tell. Even I was having the medically nearly uncurable neural problem which need two tablets per day to lead normal life, 15 years back. I was taking medicines and doing some kind of yoga’s too. I had a great will power and saying that I should overcome this…. At last after 8 years of struggle I came out of medical support…. At the beginning of this problem, my family prayed to local God. Is it necessary I have correlate their prayers with my cure? Its is up to individuals… No matter whether you believe in God (with particular name) or not, there are some scientific miracles. It is called scientific miracle, since science doesn’t have answer (not fully developed to answer)…. It is just my opinion… I have another big story to tell… I will explain based on the direction of discussion.

[Alisha]

Thanks Roshan, atlast one to say what I am saying is reasonable (not my personal conceptual problem)... I will write more in detail with proofs... any one know there are books relating Adam to great Indian God? I will come at the last.... when people discuss without biased....

then for sister (once you said brother, I accept it) Alisha,

The following questions may looks like silly may be childish too… but it is necessary to know before discussing this subject. It is up to you… you need not to answer too…
1. Are there two equal super beings called God and Satan? Are they equally powered or Satan is lesser powerful?
Yes there is GOD and SATAN and Definetly GOD has a greated POWER
2. If so, who created Satan? Why?
GOD Created the ANGEL not SATAN whom GOD prepared for his mission.
3. If God created Satan, whether God knows that he is creating a devil? If God doesn’t know that he will become devil? GOD created ANGEL to fulfill GOD purpose
4. Is it possible for God to destroy Satan directly without sending his sons. Prophets etc? I am sure GOD can do that.
5. What all considered Satan’s act? Is it possible to list out some? Adultery, MURDER, THEFT
6. What all God’s acts? Is it possible to list out some? LOVE

If you know any of the above, please explain with honest to your heart. Don’t refer holy books, preacher’s quote.. etc? Please explain only what you know or feel.

[Alisha]

Thanks Roshan, atlast one to say what I am saying is reasonable (not my personal conceptual problem)... I will write more in detail with proofs... any one know there are books relating Adam to great Indian God? I will come at the last.... when people discuss without biased....

r_kk, You have put forward the right information regarding the Islamic view on Jesus - which most of the Muslims and Christians are not aware of. I jsut tried to add a bit to it from what I've learnt. This could be discussed extensively but I dont think this is the 'right' place for any kind of religious related discussions.

As long as this thread is concerned I was a silent reader all these days. Though I believe in GOD I have found the views of some rationalists like Rohith, geno , mellon, cygnus et al interesting. It helped me to see the other side of the spectrum.

But of late I see some indiviuals trying to hijack this thread to force their beliefs on others . This thread is slowly getting 'converted' as a place for religious propoganda - which i hate most - what ever religion it may be. I was basically provoked by the half baked stuff of people like Alisha.

This thread should be a place to discuss the existance and non existance of God and not to for any kind of relgious propoganda. This kind of religious propoganda with half baked knowledge would only lead to unnecessary arguments and fights - which I would never want to see.

Roshan,

I shared my experience and I was not preaching or turning this place for religous propanganda.

I have not metioned a single word saying that this relgion is not good or that is not.

Please read carefully before you pass your comments.

[Roshan]

Oh!! Thank GOD!! I didn't waste my time on responding Alisha!! The answers given above clearly shows that she doesn't even have the BASIC knowledge of her own belief (?). :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Alisha]

Sister Alisha,
Thanks for your explanations regarding the miracle cure. I still consider as individual belief… not as a proof of Gods presence. I doesn’t matter to you I know.



Please read my earlier postings.

[Alisha]

Oh!! Thank GOD!! I didn't waste my time on responding Alisha!! The answers given above clearly shows that she doesn't even have the BASIC knowledge of her own belief (?).

Roshan,

Who do are you refering as SHE?

[Roshan]

haiyyO suddham !!!

[Alisha]

haiyyO suddham !!!

Yen athu SUddham?

[r_kk]

Thanks Sister Alisha for your responses to my questions on Satan....Now please read old testement and say who did more acts of Satan? I will try to reply slowley and leave the hub space for others some time...(too much busy with jobs....). I will try to see how other are responding. If you have time, please read GIBRAN KALIL's poems on Satan...

In simple words... he says only preachers carry satan becuse without him there is no business for them....

I don't want to make any comment on your reply at this moment.

[NOV]

Please restrain yourselves in your discussion.

While you are free to talk about your religion (as long as it is not propoganda), please do not make careless remarks about other religions, a subject which I am sure you have very little knowledge of.

As Roshan rightly said this thread is about God's existence. DO NOT use this as a platform to promote your religion and defeat the very purpose of this thread

And one more thing, please don't use the entire long paragraphs as quotes when responding.

[geno]

In simple words... he says only preachers carry satan becuse without him there is no business for them....

Dear r_kk, :)

Absolutely! you are on the dot!

And i can see that your poser "Who created Satan? and if God did create him - why didnt God knew that he would become evil? - is a pertinent and brilliant perspective!..

If the belivers (of any hues) can answer this question - they would only end up - contradicting their entire belief system - and that entire belief system would fall as a pack of cards! :)

If creator - who can't be manifested in any way or form - can be "self-created", why can't the universe which is right there - which can be felt, experienced, seen and understood - be a "self-evolved" entity?! :)

[just_hubber]

Here is something about satan...

Far too long I have played with hellfire
And science has turned into madness
But I should have taken it higher !
- Blind Guardian. Age Of False Innocence.

Majority of people forget about the fact that Satan was the creation of our God as well. Moreover, Satan was holy on his creation. This just makes it much easier to delude people all around the world telling them that Satan was there all the time. This is a mistake, for Satan was created by our God, and he was one of the best creations. God made him as perfect as possible, God gave him as much knowledge as He possibly could.

Satan knowing everything, felt quite good for a while, he could even modify himself without God's help, by adding new features to his "body" - such as "wings" or whatever. God gave him everything that can only be imagined, all the power and all the information. There was nothing that Satan did not know. But suddenly Satan got stuck with this question: "Why I am not God?". Satan has everything but he must play by God's rules, he may never become God. Satan felt envy to God... Imagine how painful that could be... for it's for Eternity !

" I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God? If man will contend with Him, he cannot answer Him one of a thousand. Is there someone who is wise in heart, and mighty in strength: who has hardened himself against Him, and has prospered? "
- The Holy Bible. Job 9:2.

See him coming
He has no face
You must stop running
You must have Faith !
- Judas Priest. Demolition.

Satan knows nothing about sin or whatever, he is infallible. He can do everything, unless God disallows him. Therefore Satan cannot be completely free. This hurts as well... for Satan knows that he can never be free from God's supervision. Moreover, Satan may want it or not, but he is condemned to serve God against his will. Moreover, Satan is not bad because he was made bad. Satan became unholy because God decides that Satan's doings and ideas are imperfect, Satan knows everything, but is not smart enough to use this knowledge for God's good. In other words God thinks that Satan has enough power and knowledge to do anything, but Satan is missing one important element -- he wants to use his knowledge and power against God's will.

God does not trust Satan, just because God does not have to trust anyone. This makes Satan angry again. Extreme knowledge and only killed good Satan, there is no other reasonable explanation. What's the use of all the power and knowledge if you cannot use it without someone's approval? Satan wants freedom, but cannot get it. No one can, only God has complete freedom of will and thought. Satan can be seen as a rebel, but is it really justified to blame him for his rebellion? Isn't it because of the knowledge that made him think this way? Maybe Satan finally got up with question: God, how can I kill you?... Only God knows all the answers, maybe it's even better for humans not to know everything.

Without remorse. Without regret.
Where ever there is hate, violence, depravity, a door will always be found.
- Hellraiser - Hellseeker.

The only reason why Satan can no longer return under God's blessings, is not because God does not want it, but because Satan cannot accept this. God is LOVE, Satan hates LOVE -- what's the use? No love can ever make him God anyway.

I'm alone
You talk of love - not for me!
In my dungeon cold I could think about
All the things you've said...
- Blind Guardian. Tokyo Tales.

God finds out that extreme knowledge can only create the feeling of envy for his creations, and this feeling is very painful. Therefore only a few humans are allowed to know more than others do, only those humans in which God finds complete trust and obedience. Mortals can suicide to stop the pain, but immortals cannot -- imagine how painful that can be. No way out...

Why Satan hates humans? Simple, humans aren't as perfect as Satan is, humans know much less than Satan about God and the order of the Universe, but even without any knowledge there are humans that do love God. Or maybe humans love God just because they don't have all that knowledge that Satan has? Don't you remember that it was Satan who seduced Eve to eat an apple of some extra knowledge?

" And the serpent said unto the woman, you shall not surely die: For God does know that in the day you eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and you shall be as Gods, knowing good and evil. "
- The Holy Bible. Genesis 3:4.

Satan lied when he said you shall be as Gods, but maybe he just wasn't telling all the truth? Knowledge is power, but is there knowledge that guarantees you the power of God? Probably if it was that apple, Satan would eat it himself first. Then why Satan is so worried for Adam and Eve? Just to share the knowledge? It's a very twisted situation.

Majority of the Earth's population defy God and His love, but this only makes Satan happy. Satan is deeply interested in giving extreme knowledge that he has to humans, to corrupt their minds. Satan may become really mad if human remains devoted to God and His ideas even knowing something that he shouldn't know.

God and Satan still remain "friends", Bible has a few places where they talk on equal terms and even make bets -- there is a story of an honest man, called Job, that became awfully ill because of that.

" There was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. And the LORD said unto Satan, Where you came from? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and from in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. "
- The Holy Bible. Job 1:6.

" And the LORD said unto Satan, Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that fears God, and eschews evil? And still he holds fast his integrity, although you moved me against him, to destroy him without cause. And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man has will he give for his life. But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse you to your face! And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in your hand now, but save his life. So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown."
- The Holy Bible. Job 2:3.

You may ask, is it justified to let Satan to experiment on humans and make them ill? Yes it is, for humans are subliminal creations, God still allows Satan to do what he wants to. I'm sorry if it sounds like a complete bullshit, but I think God still loves Satan... just because he is one of His best creations, humans cannot be even compared. I wasn't able to find any God's word in the Holy Bible that says that Satan is bad, there are only facts to compare. Moreover, since God created Satan, it cannot be bad in general.

Moreover, Satan is an Angel Of Light, but light isn't that bad as we all know. Of course Sun can cause skin cancer and other unpleasant things, but without light the existence of all life would be under a great doubt. Satan serves humanity against his own will.

" And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. "
- The Holy Bible. Genesis 1:3.

" And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an Angel Of Light. "
- The Holy Bible. 2 Corinthians 11:14.

God sees light as good. Therefore, Satan is as bad as a pneumatic pick hammer if you don't know how to use it. Moreover, it is an interesting fact, that in Job 1:6 it says that Satan came among sons of God, therefore it seems that Satan is considered to be one of them.

So what can be that difference between Satan and Jesus Christ? Pride is the major Sin and the only Sin that can hurt God. This is the Sin that made Lucifer become Satan. Satan could not accept the fact, that he should serve humans, instead of humans serving him. Lucifer tries to destroy Earth's Ecosystem and succeeds. Therefore, Lucifer's name was changed to Satan which means the enemy that destroys. Indeed, what's so special in humans? Monkeys and brood of monkeys... evil monkeys... proud monkeys... Is it really justified to save the human kind? Even Jesus has hesitations...

" And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? That is to say, My God, my God, why has thou forsaken me? "
- The Holy Bible. Mathew 27:46.

Well, Jesus does it... Jesus serves ungrateful race of mankind.

" I'll look back on myself and say I did it for love
Yes I did it for love - for love - oh I did it for love..."
- Queen. It's A Hard Life.

Love unconditional... a rare human monkey can get that. The question, is not "Was Jesus Christ indeed the Son of God or not?", the question is "Wasn't the sacrifice made in vain?"

In deserts I was preaching
The hand of God was with me
Baptized with water and I praised
The one who came behind me
To save us all with the Holy Ghost
-- a prophet of the fools I've been lost!
I can't understand you famous son.
I left the way of heaven
or did you lead me from it?
- Blind Guardian. Banished From Sanctuary.

Satan has the power on Earth, Jesus on Heaven. Satan is great, but defective. Jesus is as perfect as God. Here is a conversation between God and Satan that I've overheard:

Satan: You don't love me, for you do not allow me to play with humans.
God: My little boy, I do love you. But what's so fun in torturing human beings?
Satan: Don't call me like that! Humans are bad! Look at them, they are so stupid that they cannot live in harmony with their own kind. They just spoil everything on my Earth.
God: Dear Satan, I wish you could learn, but you already know everything. Why don't you try to love them, and explain to them what is good and what is bad? Like your little brother Jesus did?
Satan: They don't respect you and defy your loving. The word love is synonym of word fornication on Earth. There is no other choice but to fry out the bad ones. You won't succeed with your loving, this was vain sacrifice. Let me destroy the Earth!
God: It took me a lot of work and dedication to create Earth. And you want to destroy it? Crashing is easy, but it's not cool... I'll fix humans my way. I'll give them a little bit more time.
Satan: Why have you created me if I cannot do anything without your approval? What's the use of all this power and knowledge?


So as you see, God restricts Satan to do his will. Satan is angry, for he surely would like to torture Job more exotically, but God does not allow this, and orders to keep Job's life.

Satan knows the feeling of envy, God does not. God does not know the feeling of vengeance as well, because nothing can actually hurt God. Therefore, Satan seeks for vengeance, God does not. God does not know the feeling of "hate", just because everything around is His own creation and work, or concrescences of His work.

Common delusion is that Satan is stupid. He is not. He is much wiser that any human dead or alive. Satan is and remains one of God's greatest creations ever. Satan can even create spirits the same way as God does, often creations of Satan are called demons. Angles that cannot accept the idea of love are automatically became demons. For Angels serve God from their own will, but Demons serve Satan because they are afraid for his power, strength and tortures.

" To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. "
- The Holy Bible. Acts 26:18.

One thing is sure, God is limiting the power of Satan, and this makes Satan mad. And only God, his Creator may decide if he is successful or not. If you call some man a "Satan", that would hurt real Satan for sure, just because he is much greater than any retarded spirit. Moreover, no humanoid ape is allowed to judge Satan for sure, be careful for if you are not with God, Satan will find an employment for you... it's just a matter of time. You will have to love him :)

The Bible has a story about the war between Satan and God, Satan knows that he never kills God, therefore the goal of the war is in spoiling the idea of "LOVE between God and humans". The day is near... the war is in progress. Both Satan and God want to bring order on Earth, God because of love, Satan because of vengeance and envy. God is sure that LOVE will win in the end and humans can live in harmony with each other. Satan thinks that the only solution is to kill those who cannot accept his rule. If Armageddon would happen tomorrow Satan's methods would win with a great advantage. What on Earth could change our Jesus to a monster that wants to come shoot people on that day with a laser beam? God will bring the order to Earth, even if He has to use Satan's tools for this work...

It's better to be alone with God than to be with a million and Satan, just because God wins not by quantity but by quality.

The aim is beyond any costs. It is very stupid to serve a man, for Satan is much greater. Therefore it is much better to serve Satan. But again, this is very stupid to serve Satan, just because no one compares to the power and wisdom of God. Moreover, even Satan has no choice but to respect God.

Destiny told us
There is no doubt
Respect - is what it's all about!...
- No Angels. Something About Us.

How can you be sure that the information that you get is from God or from Satan? Simple, if you think yourself and do as your heart tells you to do, it is from God. You cannot talk directly to Satan even if you really want to, unless God allows this to happen. But if someone else tells you to do something, even if it sounds reasonable, it can be Satan. The Bible has several proofs of it. First Eve listened to someone... and "ate the apple"... then Adam listened to Eve and "ate the apple". The second reverse example is Job talking to his wife:

" Then said his wife unto him, Do you still retain your integrity? Curse God, and die! But he said unto her, you speak as one of the foolish women speak. What? Shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips. "
- The Holy Bible. Job 2:9.

Job knew that God punishes him for no reason, and Job could be very angry, but he did not listen to his wife anyway. Moreover, Job considers that there could be a sin on him, that he does not know about.

" If I am wicked -- woe unto me; and if I am righteous, yet will I not lift up my head. "
- The Holy Bible. Job 10:15.

Finally God blesses Job, heals him and gives him even more goods than he had before, he lived for 140 years here on Earth -- enjoying life, unconfirmed sources say that he is the great angel now. The lesson is clear, trust no one. God can talk directly to your mind, Satan cannot, unless allowed to.

Satan is just God's brat policeman. He is brat and he is full of corruption and lies. So how could God choose him to be a policeman? But did God really had a choice? He is just the best for the job. Show me at least one honest policeman here on Earth? Found him? I doubt... But anyway, there are honest demons as well, Satan just dragged them by his lies to serve him. Satan has the right to make searches and even provocations to reveal those hesitated souls.

Satan usually uses someone else to transfer his information to those whom he cannot talk directly. Beware, because I am someone... All information has it's value, you have to use your own brains to make a decision. Be wise, be as perfect as possible, and you'll never fall.

" Therefore, you have to be perfect, as perfect as your Father which is in Heaven. "
- The Holy Bible. Mathew 5:48.

[Bad Boy]

Even Jesus, "the son of God" never said that he is the son of God. But he said "the way to MY God is within ME". I hope you understand that.



Brother BAD BOY,

Sorry I cannot accept your statement that Jesus never said that he was not the Son of GOD.

You got to check the facts brother and it is stated in the word of god.
I don't think I'll ever take The Holy Bible, Holy Kuran or All the Hindu scripts or anything else in my hands any more. I own a very pure easy mind and clean thinking as a lot of people have alraedy stated. For me the last six commandments are enough to be a christian, socialist, democrat or ... but very sure to be a human.
It is me who ploughs the field to deserve a good harvest. I know that non the books are right and none of them are wrong. Each and every word was said because of justice and injustice to create harmony in a copmlex society. Some preach even the bad as good and the worst of all is that there are humans who believes that. :sad:

Even the democracy about 2000 years ago and earlier tolerated slavery? Why? It was Athens the first democracy. They also questioned Zeus and Hera because of the philosophers at that time. This was the reason why Greece turned to christianity. And from there to Rome and with the New Power on Earth it spread further to Europe about 1500 years ago. And with the Kolonialisierung ... we don't wnat to talk about that what happened in the mane of cross and bible. The way of thinking was quite different at that time. Fortunately, Pope JP II excused himself for the undeeds in the name of Christianity. What a joke? The Popes who were the representant of God on earth went very wrong. Even all their deeds can not be questioned! Why? Even JP II can not jumb away from his shadow and say what they did was entirely wrong.

I only noticed if you are in trouble you cry for god but if your brother cries for you you let him cry, tell me why?

There will always be revolutionaries and funamentalists, the one side believes that the earth is flat though proven wrong. And believes it can remain conservative because the people may turn away their soul from the religious captivity.
If you want to belive because some one opened your mind then believe it and send him to me please too. I am even ready to face the highest inquiry at any time.
For me it is only important that I lend an ear to you if you are in need. That is why god created us if he ever created us beings.

[Bad Boy]

What is the truth ? I found it and you are still struggling, that's all.


Alisha,

please don't misunderstand me. I do appreciate you believe in something and getting your mind and soul strong. There is no doubt if you need that support you are doing the very correct thing. I'll never say it is wrong or right. But for me, despite my way of thinking of god it is important you own a pure heart and head. only there can a God dwell.

oru dheepam illaamal koovilumillai
oru koovilillaamel Deivamum illai
....
A fantastic song but I don't rember that anymore.

[Bad Boy]

All religious prophets, gurus and saints are actually messengers of GOD.

They came down to earth to preach what HE instructed. We pray to these divine beings to reach God who is eternal through different paths and teachings. :lol: :lol:

*********
SONU GOPI :)

I came to know of one guy who recently enjyoing the Tamil Nadu from behind the bars! It is we make the God and not god us. Holy men! My God holy cow are really better.

[Bad Boy]

If I want or not I somehow trouble Mod NOV. :lol: A lot to check.

The hub had been very very active.

The discussions with the priest in Jeaypuram/Vanni, SL really happened. We also prayed together but I was not thinking at Jesus especially, I thought of the mind power of us humans and how it is spinning most the time. But believe me this Rev. never said I am wrong or I am a Satan's herald or something. He accepted my way of thinking as I accept his.

[r_kk]

Sister Alisha,
I will reply your previous responses lately, since I am expecting some more proper responses from other believers (from honest non hatred self experienced...not to those who makes too much brain washed noice) and he3 who said he will write this weekend.

You had mentioned as follows in your experience…
“our room which was known as a mini temple by every one that visited our home, we decided to clean up and turn our house to a HOUSE OF THE LORD”

And you are also saying,

“Same scenario for Vivekanda Swami, he was in search of god and it is believed that he saw Jesus and Kalli Amma (he was a Kalli Worshipper). What did his followers do? The Ramakrishnan worldwide organisation worship Vivekanda and Swami Ramakrishnan and follow their theory instead of Worshipping to the Mighty GOD”

Also you said,
“What about Muslims, the Nabi Muhammad prohibited man kind to worship to Idols but what do they do? All Muslims face the Kaabah to worship and that's another way of worshipping to idols”


Please understand all your statement about Buddha, Vivekanda mission and Islam are totally wrong. I had associated with Ramakrishna mission for many years. I had read complete works of Vivekanada. I worked with very good socially dedicated monks of Ramakrishna mission and I had discussion about God with them. I know that what you are saying is wrong. You might have seen some early stage Vivekanda following doing like that as a matter of respect…. Not those well understood people….

You knowledge about Islam is very poor. Please note...your statements indicate that the basic question of blessing of God… I have so many good friends in Islam with so kind hearted noble persons and I had/having many discussions with them. From that I can surely say… your understanding is totally wrong.

This is same for your understanding about Buddha…

You also said
“I have not metioned a single word saying that this relgion is not good or that is not.”

If we read your previous statements, you can see how much you contradict with your own statement. When you said you had changed your "mini temple" to "HOUSE OF THE LORD".. you indirectly mention that you had converted from “H” (when you said idols.. it means not "Bu") to “C”. This can be understood even by a person with little amount of brain. From all the statements it is visible that you had found Lord in “C” and not before…. Does this one not a religious propagation? Please be honest to your heart.

I was also a believer once… That time I could be able go to any temples churches, mosques every where… What I was thinking is all are place of worships... I used to think that God is everywhere... in and out of me. I had seen tears coming out of many people praying in all the place… I found goodness every where…. Even as on today I am one of the person goes to my village church during X-mas and make lot of arrangements, if I am at my village. I am doing this even though I don’t not believe “C” but I do as a respect to minority innocent people of village. Even recently, one of my close relative wanted to go to the one of the biggest church, I accompanied. The prayer hall was filled with thousands of people. Only my family was different color. After long hours of prayer, the pastor (one of the biggest church in the world) came and asked me whether I am a Pastor from another country. I said “No”. Then he asked why you came all the way to pray here. I said my close relative wanted to so.. He got more doubt… then how come you can also pray like us… Are you a “C” or believe in “J”. I said “No”…. He couldn’t able to understand what I am. I said I don’t believe religions but respects humans thoughts and most of all I never distinguish Religions even when was believer and now also…

I argue only against the people who are hypocritical to say others are following wrong or who says only their belief is true. That’s why I am spending so much of time leaving my urgent jobs. I can say very clearly those who make hatred statements and half baked statements…is not the place of Love…. It is place of “D”…. Sorry, if I said any thing wrong…

I will come back when I see more relevant responses… I don’t think other non-believer expect me write replies to Just_hubbers post (even he was not comfortable... let him be peaceful)… more over I am running out of time….

[Alisha]

What is the truth ? I found it and you are still struggling, that's all.


Alisha,

oru dheepam illaamal koovilumillai
oru koovilillaamel Deivamum illai
....
A fantastic song but I don't rember that anymore.

Bad Boy,

I have a better understanding about you now.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Alisha]

Sister Alisha,
I will reply your previous responses lately, since I am expecting some more proper responses from other believers (from honest non hatred self experienced...not to those who makes too much brain washed noice) and he3 who said he will write this weekend.



Brother R_KK

I mentioned about Buddha, Muslims – Kaabah Vivekanda movements not to condemn them but to highlight that all believe that GOD exist however they don’t DIRECTLY worship GOD.

If today you were to pick a tree and start worshipping it, many others will follow and the next thing you know is that there will be a sprit living in that tree.

When I mentioned MINI Temple that’s because I had every single god in my room and finally GOD revealed to me that we don’t need to worship someone or something to get near GOD and that’s why I mentioned HOUSE OF THE LORD.

Could you explain why you need to wait for others to respond before you share your views?

What I am trying to stress is, if you strictly follow a Religion Propaganda, you are not guaranteed to be with GOD but it’s the RELATIONSHIP with GOD that gives you the ultimate key to be with GOD.

You last note revealed that you do believe in GOD, am I right ?

Can you be straight forward and not beat around the bush and don’t be like a policeman or auditor to find fault in others postings.

[Alisha]

Just Hubber,

It was a good write up explaining about satan.

I do believe GOD loves every creation of his which includes satan just like a parent who loves their CHILD unconditionally even if he is a murderer.

Roshan,

Where are you?

[Alisha]

If I want or not I somehow trouble Mod NOV. :lol: A lot to check.

The hub had been very very active.

The discussions with the priest in Jeaypuram/Vanni, SL really happened. We also prayed together but I was not thinking at Jesus especially, I thought of the mind power of us humans and how it is spinning most the time. But believe me this Rev. never said I am wrong or I am a Satan's herald or something. He accepted my way of thinking as I accept his.

So you prayed!! So you do believe GOD exist.

[sonu gopi]

So you prayed!! So you do believe GOD exist.

It also shows that there is GOD within us too - we can't run away from that!! :lol: :lol:

**********
SONU GOPI :wink:

[just_hubber]

Sister ALISHA
The comment about "satan" was according to bible verses
it is good to know that you are holding your faith regardless of the people comments here.
Because God is telling when he comes he could see only few people holding the faith in God.

There is always a big skeptic group defend even they will produce fake fossils to prove their theories deviate the believers.

Hope you will here to support the faith in God and defend the skeptic group and even pray for them.

[r_kk]

Sister Alisha,
I was a believer long time back but now not..
Then you are trying to understand only the literal meaning of everything...including my questions on Satan.... Geno's comment was straight and I was expecting a reply from you or just_hubber on that. Even I requested you to read more details in your religious book and history to find out who performed more acts of Satan that you had mentiond. You haven't felt that also... So even if I explain, at this situation you will not understand but you will only understand me wrongly.... Then try to understand what is the exact meaning of each act you mentioned under Satan and just look various cultures/period of world... There are so many things... you have to search and understand.... Even if I explain... no use till you feel the need or look outside of your coloured specs.... you will not find the colour... If you really want some clarification... read Galil Gibran poems on religious belief and Satan.. or Abdul Rahman's "Sirakugalin neram" which is coming in Junior Vikadan... It will give precise answer ahat I was expecting from a good believer.

I always said I am presently a skeptic not atheist... I also said reasons.... I also said we don't need GOD to be good and if you are honest just because of fear about God or expecting good things/health etc in life and heaven after life, it is a cheap deal nothing else.... God or religion is not necessary for one to be good.

After all it is your life... your belief... If you are comfortable with that you have full right to proceed as per that...

[davie]

Sister Alisha,
I was a believer long time back but now not..
Then you are trying to understand only the literal meaning of everything...including my questions on Satan.... Geno's comment was straight and I was expecting a reply from you or just_hubber on that. Even I requested you to read more details in your religious book and history to find out who performed more acts of Satan that you had mentiond. You haven't felt that also... So even if I explain, at this situation you will not understand but you will only understand me wrongly.... Then try to understand what is the exact meaning of each act you mentioned under Satan and just look various cultures/period of world... There are so many things... you have to search and understand.... Even if I explain... no use till you feel the need or look outside of your coloured specs.... you will not find the colour... If you really want some clarification... read Galil Gibran poems on religious belief and Satan.. or Abdul Rahman's "Sirakugalin neram" which is coming in Junior Vikadan... It will give precise answer ahat I was expecting from a good believer.

I always said I am presently a skeptic not atheist... I also said reasons.... I also said we don't need to be good just because of fear about God expecting good things/health etc in life.... God or religion is not necessary for one to be good.

After all it is your life... your belief... If you are comfortable with that you have full right to proceed as per that...
lol u people have formed an association, can i be one of the members