Death penalty

[Nakeeran]

Many countries have infact withdrawn death penalty while some are still holding it.
Is death penalty necessary in today's world.
because, when someone is sentenced to life rigorous imprisonment, he / she already undergoes a similar trauma & by the time he / she gets discharged, become vegetable.

Lets discuss here

[crazy]

death penalty
i dont know. i think it should be withdrawn by all countries, but ....................if i was a victim or releated to the victim...........my view might have changed!

iam not sure.........wating for others view :)

[bingleguy]

watch Virumaandi ;-) to get an answer !

[crazy]

watch Virumaandi ;-) to get an answer !

:roll:

[Bipolar]

Personally I'm against the death penalty.

I feel that no human being has the right to deprive another human being (even murderers) of his or her right to live.

If a person has committed murder, and we sentence him/her to death for it, then we are really not much different from that person. If you let a murderer live, there is the possibility that he/she might come to feel remorse for what he/she did. People can change (but I agree, people don't always change). If you execute them, that possibility is not there.

So, I suppose, the question should be asked: what is the purpose of punishing a criminal? Is it just about getting even with him/her - is it just about settling scores? Or is it about trying to reform them - making them understand that they've done something wrong, and trying to make them change - to give them a chance to be a better person?

There was a Tamil-language film called "Chinna Gounder" (starring Vijayakanth, Suganya, and others), made a long time ago (sometime around 1993, I think). It wasn't really a great film, but there was one scene that I thought was good. In the last scene of the film, the villain (I don't know the name of the actor who played the role) confesses to all the reprehensible things he did, and then, overcome with guilt, pleads to be punished ("Ennaku thandanai kudunga yaa!"), and then the hero (played by Vijayakanth, of course) tells him that the aim of punishment is to "correct" individuals who have gone wrong ("thirundhuradhukkudhaan"), so he is forgiven, because he repents for what he did.

Of course, "Chinna Gounder" was just fiction, but I know people in real life who hurt other people (although they didn't commit any crimes), but were forgiven for what they did, and then genuinely changed to become better individuals.

We can't create life, can we? So how can we give ourselves the right to take a life? You can't put a price on life. The right to life is not ours to give or take as we please. That's my view.

Of course, as Crazy says, victims or their relatives would feel differently. As they say, "To err is human, to forgive is divine."

[ab_123]

I think Life-in-Prison is a better sentence. They get to really 'pay'/suffer for what they did. Atleast it gives them a chance to reflect on what they did and what the consequence is. This would be the only way that they MIGHT be willing to change their ways.

[Nakeeran]

Bipolar

Nice post.

Have you all heard about the Australian Bishop who was set ablaze along with his 2 children some years ago right in front of his wife

Despite the monumental irreparable loss, the Australian lady was so magnanimous that she insisted not to give death penalty to the Culprit

Dear Crazy,

it takes a great maturity level to absorb personal losses & pardon the sinner

I am not sure but I heard that the human bomber who assassinated Rajiv Gandhi , her sister was molested by IPKF personnel during their presence in Jaffna. Not sure but I heard that this made her determined to wipe out the root cause for her personal suffering & made her to take up this mission

[rocketboy]

I am not sure but I heard that the human bomber who assassinated Rajiv Gandhi , her sister was molested by IPKF personnel during their presence in Jaffna. Not sure but I heard that this made her determined to wipe out the root cause for her personal suffering & made her to take up this mission

Sorry for the digression but I feel India made a grave mistake by sending
IPKF to Srilanka . Our machines , our soldiers were used against our own siblings. Not only it damaged the reputation of India among srilankan Tamils it was a huge setback for India in terms of loss of lives of soldiers.
Come to think of it, it contradicts in principle the preamble to our Constitution.

[dsath]

Rocketboy,
The intention was a good one, to make peace. But as is the case with most good Indian policies, it was executed as badly as possible and the result - the world has been introduced with a new kind of warfare ..... suicide bombings.
This has been picked by almost every group that wants to oppose something or the other. Sad really sad.

[rocketboy]

and to top it all ,it was Indira Gandhi who initially nurtured all these organisations .:o She was the one who supported Jarnal Singh and she was the one who had him eliminated in operation BlueStar . My dad, whenever he talks about her , describes her as an 'Iron' lady. When I was young , it was really difficult to understand the deeper implications . Now as I learn more about her everything unfolds before me. truly a remarkable person. 8-) This lady , my god what a tactician she was.

[ramky]

and to top it all ,it was Indira Gandhi who initially nurtured all these organisations .:o She was the one who supported Jarnal Singh and she was the one who had him eliminated in operation BlueStar . My dad, whenever he talks about her , describes her as an 'Iron' lady. When I was young , it was really difficult to understand the deeper implications . Now as I learn more about her everything unfolds before me. truly a remarkable person. 8-) This lady , my god what a tactician she was.

A good tactician she was. she met her nemesis after she declared Emergencey & the following wave removed her from power eventually. but then she returned to power in 1980 bcos of the excellent political acumen she had inherited from nehru. the same couldnt be said of rajiv gandhi for sure, but then his life was cut short before he could have a 2nd innings in politics.

[crazy]

being an eelam tamil i dont want to bring tamil eelam and rajiv gandhi into this topic, i might hurt others!


Of course, as Crazy says, victims or their relatives would feel differently. As they say, "To err is human, to forgive is divine."

so true.



it takes a great maturity level to absorb personal losses & pardon the sinner

I am not sure but I heard that the human bomber who assassinated Rajiv Gandhi , her sister was molested by IPKF personnel during their presence in Jaffna. Not sure but I heard that this made her determined to wipe out the root cause for her personal suffering & made her to take up this mission

no comments!


Sorry for the digression but I feel India made a grave mistake by sending
IPKF to Srilanka . Our machines , our soldiers were used against our own siblings. Not only it damaged the reputation of India among srilankan Tamils it was a huge setback for India in terms of loss of lives of soldiers. Come to think of it, it contradicts in principle the preamble to our Constitution.

thats so so true................i know many eelam tamils who hates indians...............let me just say this. i and every tamils in eelam loved and respected indians and india, but now ...............hm many eelam tamils look at indians at enemies. so sad!

rocketboy: i thank u with my whole heart for calling us siblings! u made my day happy. :)

sorry for bringing eelam here!
lets move on with the topic :D

[crazy]

Rocketboy,
The intention was a good one, to make peace. But as is the case with most good Indian policies, it was executed as badly as possible and the result - the world has been introduced with a new kind of warfare ..... suicide bombings.
This has been picked by almost every group that wants to oppose something or the other. Sad really sad.

i totally go for sucide bombings..........i know that it kills a lots of innocent civilians.............but it is the only weapon we got.............talking is possible, coming to negotiations is possible only with humans not with ............!

anyway iam so sorry for bringing eelam here!
forgive me!

[Bipolar]

Crazy...

How old are you? I think you're a bit too young...

I don't want to go into the politics behind the conflict in Sri Lanka... I don't really know much about it...

But look, there is never any justification for suicide bombings... NEVER!! Please don't say such things...

You seem to agree with my comment "To err is human, to forgive is divine", so shouldn't we all aim to forgive?

Again, I stress, I don't want to talk about politics here, we should continue with the original topic.

Regards.

[crazy]

Crazy...

How old are you? I think you're a bit too young...

I don't want to go into the politics behind the conflict in Sri Lanka... I don't really know much about it...

But look, there is never any justification for suicide bombings... NEVER!! Please don't say such things...
You seem to agree with my comment "To err is human, to forgive is divine", so shouldn't we all aim to forgive?

Again, I stress, I don't want to talk about politics here, we should continue with the original topic.

Regards.


dear
wish i could say that too, but sorry i cant and i wont! if u were in my shoes, maybe u might have understood, but anyway lets stick to the topic!

btw iam turning 20 soon.

[Bipolar]

Crazy, okay. Your opinions are yours, my opinions are mine. I can't say anything more. Let's leave it at that, and carry on with the topic.

[crazy]

Crazy, okay. Your opinions are yours, my opinions are mine. I can't say anything more. Let's leave it at that, and carry on with the topic.

ok :)

[Nakeeran]

Digression :

Crazy ! I am really stunned by your words !

Are you aware, along with Rajiv some 22 unrelated individuals also died . In what way they were related ??

Second, killing someone is not the ultimate solution for any cause , be it freedom struggle or for any other reason

You might say now that only those who are personally affected can realize the truth behind this but still the path shown by Mahatma Gandhiji is ultimate NON VIOLENCE

Look, India also had undergone this freedom struggle for more than 200 years but ultimately got independence through the righteous path shown/ guided by Mahatma

Request , pl remove such negative thoughts from your mindset ( in whatever manner you & your concerned are affected ) .

I am requesting this as a well wisher

You have a long way to go in life , dear Crazy

Digression ends

[crazy]

oh god
iam not going to change my mind...................as i said before if i gonna talk about rajiv gandhi and others..............i might hurt u and hurting u guys will hurt me back, though its true! i leave it here. i dont want to say anything.
but nakeeran how india got independence and mahatma's non violence :roll: hm what shall i say..................let me put it down here!
i have a question...................pls do answer : why do we have armed forces in our border specially in the north and kashmir area?

[Nakeeran]

oh god
iam not going to change my mind...................as i said before if i gonna talk about rajiv gandhi and others..............i might hurt u and hurting u guys will hurt me back, though its true! i leave it here. i dont want to say anything.
but nakeeran how india got independence and mahatma's non violence :roll: hm what shall i say..................let me put it down here!
i have a question...................pls do answer : why do we have armed forces in our border specially in the north and kashmir area?

Good question. Our country's security is paramount & as we are land locked in North & north east & our neighbours are sensitive ( even Bangladesh infiltrators are a head ache for long ) . Positioning the troops is the first thing that we need to do

If you run through Indian politics & governance, you will realise that India has always supported peace pact with neighbours including Pakistan & China. Unfortunately during previous BJP regime, while Vajpayee was opening the Waga border for traffic, Musharaff ( was the general but PM was Nawaz sherif ) planned infiltration through Kashmir route especially Siachen which is a sensitive area

For Kashmir, I will have to write a big essay

[crazy]

For Kashmir, I will have to write a big essay

For Tamil Eelam and sucide bombings, i will have to write a big essay too!

sorry! lets get back to the topic. we have different opinions and we have different experinces.......................i dont want to justify or prove anthing here!

[thamizhvaanan]

nakkeera, to say that gandhi brought independence to india is utterly flawed!!! the truth is britishers saw ppl like netaji and bhagat singh as far greater threat than gandhi. this is a historical truth, captured in letter communications sent by british officials here in india.

It so happened that england was struck really hard during WWII and it ran out of resources. And it was next to impossible for england to run this "huge unstable land of self-contradictory people". If at all we have anyone to thank for our independence it is mussolini and hitler :P

I am not in for violence, but I dont agree upon changing historical facts for the sake of supporting one's viewpoint. Patriotism is nice, but be aware of false patriotism.

[crazy]

TV i wanted to say, put u gave words to my thought! :) sorry iam not against mahatma or his non violence policy!

[thamizhvaanan]

Sorry for the digression but I feel India made a grave mistake by sending
IPKF to Srilanka . Our machines , our soldiers were used against our own siblings. Not only it damaged the reputation of India among srilankan Tamils it was a huge setback for India in terms of loss of lives of soldiers.
Come to think of it, it contradicts in principle the preamble to our Constitution.

rocketboy, you are spot on! actually india's presence was not liked by both srilanka and eelam ppl! not only in eelam, but even in north-east and kashmir, some indian soldiers have commited attrocities. I am not saying this to portray a bad image, but we should know the ground reality. There is more to truth than that escapes to newspaper columns. For example, almost all of the newspapers in india are totally biased against LTTE. they write articles with such a prejudice, give their own interpretation and stuff! The hindu is the most biased against LTTE.

[Nakeeran]

nakkeera, to say that gandhi brought independence to india is utterly flawed!!! the truth is britishers saw ppl like netaji and bhagat singh as far greater threat than gandhi. this is a historical truth, captured in letter communications sent by british officials here in india.

It so happened that england was struck really hard during WWII and it ran out of resources. And it was next to impossible for england to run this "huge unstable land of self-contradictory people". If at all we have anyone to thank for our independence it is mussolini and hitler :P

I am not in for violence, but I dont agree upon changing historical facts for the sake of supporting one's viewpoint. Patriotism is nice, but be aware of false patriotism.

Tamilvanan

Are you aware, the allies chosen by Netaji were Japanese & are you aware of Hiroshima & nagasaki disaster. If India freedom movement had gone by the Netaji way, we wouldnt have seen India now . VANISHED . When the whole world was against Adolf Hitler , it was Japan & few others sided with him. I believe Netaji even spoke to him or met him ( not sure ) as most of Netaji news have become sensation now a days.
Bagat Singh was a true patriot but took arms as means to get Freedom against the might Britishers & it cost his life

I dont need to glorify Mahatma and his righteous path & guidence is getting freedom. The whole world knows about it.
Unfortunately, it has become a UNHEALTHY TREND FOR US TO CRITICISE MAHATMA TODAY

[thamizhvaanan]

TV i wanted to say, put u gave words to my thought! :) sorry iam not against mahatma or his non violence policy!

me neither crazy, but the naked truth is that it has been violence that has brought independence to nations, rite from america to all of the african nations and the recent one in chinese mainland (I dont remember). The only major victory for non-violence as far as i know is the abolishment of apartheid in south africa! that was a result of some 20 yr isolation!

[crazy]

The hindu is the most biased against LTTE.

spaeking of The Hindu, my grandpa always had a negative thought about them!
anyway shouldnt we stick to the topic?
its my fault it seems like i have brought eelam and LTTE and all those stoffs into this topic!

IAM SO SORRY AND LET US STICK TO THE TOPIC!

[Nakeeran]

Sorry for the digression but I feel India made a grave mistake by sending
IPKF to Srilanka . Our machines , our soldiers were used against our own siblings. Not only it damaged the reputation of India among srilankan Tamils it was a huge setback for India in terms of loss of lives of soldiers.
Come to think of it, it contradicts in principle the preamble to our Constitution.

rocketboy, you are spot on! actually india's presence was not liked by both srilanka and eelam ppl! not only in eelam, but even in north-east and kashmir, some indian soldiers have commited attrocities. I am not saying this to portray a bad image, but we should know the ground reality. There is more to truth than that escapes to newspaper columns. For example, almost all of the newspapers in india are totally biased against LTTE. they write articles with such a prejudice, give their own interpretation and stuff! The hindu is the most biased against LTTE.

Tamilvanan

IPKF presence was a move I believe ( it was a popular version also ) because the Srilankan govt parallely approached Pakistan for military support to stabilise their operations. India , on strategic grounds didnt want that to happen & hence decided to send the troops as a friendly measure . Thats why it was called INDIAN PEACE KEEPING FORCE
G.Parthasarathy was the Indian envoy those days & I heard this through Horse's mouth :D

[thamizhvaanan]

nakeeran! i am not criticizing mahatma at all! I didn put a single word against him. I just said that we should caution ourselves against wrong information, thats it! I am not a victim of cheap trend or i dont do this for a fashionable advertisement, I state my knowledge! I also didn say that hitler and mussolini were good people or they did right things! Did u know, even bharathiyar was a revolutionist and categorised as a terrorist?

[crazy]

IPKF presence was a move I believe ( it was a popular version also ) because the Srilankan govt parallely approached Pakistan for military support to stabilise their operations. India , on strategic grounds didnt want that to happen & hence decided to send the troops as a friendly measure . Thats why it was called INDIAN PEACE KEEPING FORCE
G.Parthasarathy was the Indian envoy those days & I heard this through Horse's mouth :D

yaeh yeah they kept peace under "control"!

[Nakeeran]

It so happened that england was struck really hard during WWII and it ran out of resources. And it was next to impossible for england to run this "huge unstable land of self-contradictory people". If at all we have anyone to thank for our independence it is mussolini and hitler :P


Tamizvanan,

Wish to know more about this. Pls enlighten us . This is news to me. :lol:

[Nakeeran]

nakeeran! i am not criticizing mahatma at all! I didn put a single word against him. I just said that we should caution ourselves against wrong information,

What do you mean by this ? Pl explain

[dsath]

The truth is that GB could no longer afford to govern India. It was the era of rations in GB back then. Also soon after the war the Labour party came to power and one of their election promises was to advance 'self-governance' in India.
The process of freedom was discussed with the Indian leaders and the rest is history. So many of our national leaders knew that freedom was on its way. It was not like - one fine morning the British decided that India should be free now.
In my opinion we didn't get a good bargain during Independence.
What we lacked was a shrewd and cunning leader.

Labour party's 1945 election manifesto http://www.psr.keele.ac.uk/area/uk/man/lab45.htm

[rocketboy]

not only in eelam, but even in north-east and kashmir, some indian soldiers have commited attrocities. I am not saying this to portray a bad image, but we should know the ground reality.
Thamizh, I have a video which shows soldiers belonging to Assam Rifles ill treating Manipuri students. I was shocked on watching it. Those Manipuri youth appeared very innocent to me . One was whipped with some kind of a shoot (bamboo :?: ). Another was shot below his knees. Then in another scene a bunch of guys were made to squat and
do duck walking. I can never forget the despicable smiles on the faces of those sadists. Manipur is one of those states which comes under Armed Forces Special Powers Act. This act allows any officer,commissioned or non commissioned to fire upon or otherwise use force, even to the extent of causing death, against any person who is violating the law and order , if he deemed it is necessary to do so .
I agree Manipur is harbouring insurgents . But these excesses have changed my mind. I think this law should be scrapped.




There is more to truth than that escapes to newspaper columns. For example, almost all of the newspapers in india are totally biased against LTTE. they write articles with such a prejudice, give their own interpretation and stuff!


Very true.


The hindu is the most biased against LTTE.

This is news to me. :?

[Celeste]

Have you all heard about the Australian Bishop who was set ablaze along with his 2 children some years ago right in front of his wife

Despite the monumental irreparable loss, the Australian lady was so magnanimous that she insisted not to give death penalty to the Culprit

There is no death penalty in Australia.
The worst sentence that a person can get is "Life - Never to be Released".

[thamizhvaanan]

It so happened that england was struck really hard during WWII and it ran out of resources. And it was next to impossible for england to run this "huge unstable land of self-contradictory people". If at all we have anyone to thank for our independence it is mussolini and hitler :P


Tamizvanan,

Wish to know more about this. Pls enlighten us . This is news to me. :lol:

that was supposed to be a sarcastical remark da :banghead: And yes, India is a highly volatile land of self-contradictory people, which is extremely tough to govern. ivlo periya naata samalikradhu sadharana vishayamalla!

[thamizhvaanan]

rocketboy, you are right and thanx for sharing the info.

I told those things not to demean our indian soldiers. Actually, this is common to most of the armies around the world. they are very aggressive( a passive term in this context, euphemism :D) there is a lotta human right violation wherever armies are placed. that is why army's presence is universally detested in civil places.

For this reason, there is a good probability that kashmiris might actually detest being under india. bcoz army has been there for a long time, living with the civilians, and this mite have developed some deal of hatred. not to say that terrorists are favourites among kashmiris either :P . I read in an article that, DD cancelled live telecast of an international cricket match in jammu halfway, bcoz the crowd were apparently carrying anti-india slogans :shock: . the fact is we are shown only wat others want us to see. When our vision is so much obscured, it is meaningless to arrive at conclusions regarding reality in such troubled places!


now! wait a second! waat is this topic about :roll: :huh:

[Shakthiprabha.]

I do not BELIEVE or feel DEATH penalty is needed.

INSTEAD such worst criminals CAN BE HELD UNDER

LIFE-LONG imprisonment (not 15 or 20 years) UNTIL DEATH.

They can be treated specially (not specially) with POOR or distasteful food, heavy work and CONFINEMENT IN SOLITUDE.

I suppose TORTURE is severe than death itself.

[Ramakrishna]

I do not BELIEVE or feel DEATH penalty is needed.

INSTEAD such worst criminals CAN BE HELD UNDER

LIFE-LONG imprisonment (not 15 or 20 years) UNTIL DEATH.

They can be treated specially (not specially) with POOR or distasteful food, heavy work and CONFINEMENT IN SOLITUDE.

I suppose TORTURE is severe than death itself.

:cry:

[bingleguy]

i agree that TORTURE is in a way more painful than mere DEATH !

but i feel, Psychopaths ... are a danger even when they are kept under control .....

[Nakeeran]

[tscii:7a7b6fad54]Another case of death penalty , Court has ruled the guy to be hanged :

The mastermind behind the December 13, 2001 Parliament attack, Mohammed Afzal, will be executed on October 20.

Additional Sessions Judge Ravinder Kaur, signing the death warrant on Tuesday, directed the Tihar Jail authorities to make arrangements for hanging Afzal at 6 a.m. on that day.

Afzal was awarded the death sentence by the trial court here in 2002. The Delhi High Court and the Supreme Court later upheld it. The apex court also rejected his review petition

Four accused


There were four accused in the case — Mohammed Afzal, Shaukat Hussain, Navjot Sandhu alias Afsan Guru, wife of Shaukat Hussain, and S.A.R. Geelani, a Delhi University lecturer.

The Supreme Court had acquitted Geelani and Afsan Guru and reduced the death sentence awarded to Shaukat Hussain to 10-year imprisonment.

Five Pakistani militants, Mohammed, Haider, Hamza, Rana and Raja, attacked Parliament, but security personnel killed them.

Clinching evidence


The attack also claimed the lives of nine security personnel and caused injuries to16.

The Supreme Court had said there was clinching evidence against Afzal of his nexus with the terrorists killed in the attack.

The trial court, on December 18, 2002, awarded death for Afzal, Shaukat, and Geelani, and five-years imprisonment to Afsan Guru.

High Court sentence


The Delhi High Court, on October 29, 2003, upheld the sentence awarded to Afzal and Shaukat under Sections 302 (murder), 121 (waging war against the nation) of the Indian Penal Code and Sections 3 (2) and 4 of Prevention of Terrorism Act, but acquitted Geelani and Afsan Guru. While Afzal and Shaukat filed appeals in the Supreme Court against the death sentence, the Delhi Police appealed against the acquittal of Geelani and Afsan Guru.




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