Violence : A Last resort or Excuse

[Hulkster]

Violence is a very common thing that happens in every human and everywhere...war..sexual violence...prison violence...riots...torture..bullying and even hasty words can be violent....sometimes people use violence as a last resort to get what they want or get the message across....but is it really a last resort but a excuse to release the anger?.

I would like to have you all post your views on whether violence is reasonable or an excuse to just cause destruction of one's character or physicality. You can also state your views on the different type of violence and discuss what you feel about such types of violence.

[Surya]

Depends on whta the issue is maams...for some things....Adi udhavara maathiri annan thambi udhava maataan. :roll: :P

[rocketboy]

-edited -

[Surya]

-edited-

Done Badri.

[Badri]

Rocketboy: That was uncalled for. Request you to edit your post.

Surya: Every one knows you edited the post to include subsequent statements after reading Rocketboy's post. Request you to edit your last post too.

[Hulkster]

Seri seri...people stick to the topic..political discussions or any other private matters will have to be done in pm or their relevant threats...vidunga pa surya sir and rocketboy..:)

Violence is a global issue that needs to be addressed...there are times where the person could be easily affected by anger and is not able to control it..but usually it can be controlled...remember that violence is also spread through words in the way it can hurt someone.

Violence usually only has one purpose...to hurt.

[rocketboy]

-edited-

[nms]

Hulk,
Violence is one of the issues that is a great hurdle to human peace and world peace. Almost everyone in this society as a whole play a significant or a small role in violence.

Violence cannot be controlled by laws alone. It should come out of self.

Scientifically, Tiny atoms make molecules ..... similar molecules cohesively form different elements.
Similarly, world peace can be attained by individual peace.
-----------------------------------------
"Violence against violence under inevitable circumstances is Non-Violence" - Vethathiri Maharishi

[bingleguy]

VIOLENCE is nothing but an act of aggression !or the property of being turbulent !

Probably i think it is not right on a person to be violent unnecessarily ... Violent attack would not be the right choice !

does somebody think that situation warrants violence ????

[crazy]

depand on the issue, i guess!

but there is some issue, were violence is the only weapon!

[Hulkster]

Crazy self defence would be the best appropriate situation if violence was ever needed...but other than that it can be controlled....nms great point in the last line...BG unnum konjam nalla elaborate pennunga...:D.

[crazy]

Crazy self defence would be the best appropriate situation if violence was ever needed...but other than that it can be controlled....nms great point in the last line...BG unnum konjam nalla elaborate pennunga...:D.

hi i though u were talking of violence in mass!

[Hulkster]

Oh...i mean violence as a whole...if you mean mass situations it can also be self defence...selfe defence is not suited for a single person...it can be one group against another group although certain people term it as rebuttal or rioting.

[crazy]

ayyo ayyo ayyo

hulk ippo enna sollavaareenga? violence'a self defencea?

[Hulkster]

Oh confusion ah ungalakku marupadiyum...i mean that the only situation that violence is the only way to solve it is when your in need of self defence...other than that it can be controlled...:)

[crazy]

what anout violence to protect ur rights, nothing to do with an individual, but as a whole group of ppl or against the state, govt etc?

[selvakumar]

I think WE MUST BE VIOLENT AGAINST SOMEONE (who never learn)

"Adi MaeL Adi AdichaathaaN ethuvumae NagaRum"

"Adi uthavurathu maari evaNum uthava maattaaN"


I think VIOLENCE can provide solutions for SOME ISSUES.. But peace can provide solutions for many issues.

[alwarpet_andavan]

The Govt and the Supreme Court have made it perfectly justifiable for the affected people of the Narmada valley to turn violent.

[selvakumar]

The Govt and the Supreme Court have made it perfectly justifiable for the affected people of the Narmada valley to turn violent.

Agreed AA.. Nowadays.. Governments across the entire globe are doing this only.

Everything that starts in a peaceful way is made to turn as a VIOLENT one :(

Latest example is NaraMadha issue :banghead:

[Hulkster]

My only belief is that if violence is used...people will start reasonin of it as a norm and will easily enforce this as the prime plan of putting their message across...violence only leads to more violence and bloodshed leading only to harm and disembowelment of a society/individual/country's spirit...violence can certainly be prevented...if ghandi had implemented violence he would never have been able to think through most of the problems that india faced at that time.

[alwarpet_andavan]

Hulkster,
Idhellaam naama computer munnadi ukkandhu type panradhu remba easy!
Badhikkappatta makkalukku thaan kashtam theriyum.
Its not a matter of debate or discussion for them, like it is for us. Its a matter of life, livelihood and even death for them.

They tried ALL non-violent means. What happened? Aappu mela aappu. Govt, tribunals, and the one entity which is supposed to be our savior - The Supreme Court.

This is how naxalites and terrorists are born.

[crazy]

dear hulk
am not gonna say violence is the only way, but iam sorry. we live in an earth were violence is the only way!
the strongest survive!

[Hulkster]

Aandavan it is very true...but i preach non violence and i believe everytime that care and love can settle disputes...why must we rebutt with peaceful protests...why not rebutt with love,care and politeness....anbae oruthunukku veedagum...athey nerathil irumbu manathaiyum eeramaakum.

Terrorists have took upon violence as a weapon to counter what has been done to them...maybe if i was born in such a volatile world i might have been totally oppressed by such acts and take it upon myself to cause destruction....but in the end i take many innocent lives just for the sake of putting my message across...and that is nothing but inhumanity..and i dunnot want such a victory that has to be achieved at the expense of bloodshed.

[Hulkster]

dear hulk
am not gonna say violence is the only way, but iam sorry. we live in an earth were violence is the only way!
the strongest survive!

Crazy, Vallavanakku puzhum aayuthaam....Porumaiyanvargalakku anbae aayutham.

[crazy]

hulk i agree, but if need our voice to be heard then we must be ready to sacrifice our self!

anbe sivamnu solli mattum ennadha kilichidhom? innum adimaya thaan irukkom! ethukkum oru ella undhu, adhu porumaikkum thaan! anbe ethirpaakadhavan kidha anbu kaadha naan onnum jesu naadaro, gandhi mahaano, illa annai theresa illa!

enna adichakudha thaangikkuven, aana enna serthanvangala adicha naan enn paadukkidhu irukkanum?

hulk unga peace unga life style veraya irukkalaam, adhukkaaha ungala pola ennaala irukka mudiyaadhu!

[Hulkster]

Adimaiyai ozhikka vanmuraiyoda purapattu prachanai theernthaalum...athu unnum thaan azhivu undaakum...prachanaikku mel prachanai thaan kodukkum.

Ulagathil ellarum manithargal....orutharum thanipattu uruvaakuvethillai kaduvul...ellarukkum ratham undu...rendu kaal kaigal undu...anaalum manithargal avargalai pol iruppavargalai kandu...ithu thaan nammodeiya utharanam nu ninaithu matra oru vithisayamana manitha kulathai azhikka purapadugiraargal....ithu naal vanmurai vanthuthu...eppo kaalam kaalama thodarkinruthu.

Violence can be used...but it should not be objective and it should not be the weapon...if tamil eelam has to be liberated through violence against those who enforced violence upon us...it will be liberated...but what is the cost of this liberation? tons of lives gone...do you still want to be freed when half of them are gone...a separate country built from bloodshed rather than peace?

I only see more doom as if we use violence to coutner those...this will be a standard in the future and generations will follow this...who knows if the liberated tamil eelam is hit again?...remember that we have used violence to just get our rights and not reform the enemy...we are still vulnerable to attacks even if we are liberated and ostracisation is highly likely...this is happening all over the world but that does not give us the right to use it every time..remember that mother theresa and gandhi are humans...and so are we...if they can follow that why not we?

[Anoushka]

If you ask me, I will say violence should not be even in dictionary! There are two ways of getting anything done, chose the much more peaceful way and you will notice the difference :)

But this is just my opinion!

[Hulkster]

Anoushka certainly...i have used violence and after using it...a overwhelming sense of guilt comes...and you just feel like reconciling...if humans were not trained/programmed to use violence by some monsters (eg. terrorists)...then perhaps they too can feel the pain and guilt of doing such acts...:)

[Aryaz]

Violence is anything unlawful....
it should be prevented/opposed by any means at any cost!
War doesnt come under violence...
Similarly,
Urimai porattam is not violence.......
If Tamils in Eelam keep quiet and accept slavery.......it means you encourage violence......
We lost thousands of lives even in Gandhian sathyagraha war against East India company......
Liberation war in Tamil eelam is inevitableto prevent human rights violation....

[alwarpet_andavan]

Idhellaam naama computer munnadi ukkandhu type panradhu remba easy!
Badhikkappatta makkalukku thaan kashtam theriyum.
Its not a matter of debate or discussion for them, like it is for us. Its a matter of life, livelihood and even death for them.

[Hulkster]

Badhikkapaduvethu ellarukkum nadukura vishayam...oruthan sugam onnuruthan sothanai yenbathu naam vaalvethilae...ellaurkkum sodhanai undu...ellarukkum oru naal vanmuraiyinal badhippu undu...anaal athuvae oru saaku pokka aaga kudaathu...appadi ayitraal siriya tappum kuda tappaga thonraathu...:)

[alwarpet_andavan]

Hulkster,
If your livelihood depends on agriculture or suchlike, if you are beaten and thrown out of your won house, if your house is bulldozed even while you are inside, if your land is taken away and not compensated by a similar [cultivable] land, if you are thrust into a place and vocation which you dont want to or not comfortable with, if every PEACEFUL call of yours and your kind is ignored deliberately and systematically, would you still be giving this gyan?

Or if, as part of the largest refugee population i the world, if you are chased away from your home and land, you live in absolute squalor, with little or no water and electricity, if you are subjected to frisking and checking in long queues even for getting essential and urgent services, if the occupying state uses the army to indulge in terrorism, but when you revolt, the world calls it terrorism, would you still be giving this gyan?

[kannannn]

Hulkster, I will give two examples:
1. Your land is occupied. You don't fight. Your religion and culture, preserved for centuries, are slowly erased in front of you. Still you don't fight. Your area is flooded by new people in an effort to change the demographic makeup. You still swear by peace and non-violence. You are finally denied any further chance of getting your rights or land back and are forced to come to terms with the reality of permenant slavery. What do you do? You acknowledge the oppressors as your masters and forgo your right to independence.

2. You are discriminated everywhere from education to jobs. You are forced to speak an alien language in your own land. The world watches but no one comes to help. You have remained silent for long enough and decide to fight back. The oppressors relent and call you to the negotiating table.

Which example would you like to be a part of Hulkster? Both are realities: the first is Tibet and the second is Eelam. Oppressors don't understand the language of peace and non-violence: "Thiruppi adichchadhan adiyilirundhu thappikka mudiyum"

We, who hide in our houses, when our neighbors are robbed, don't have the right to preach peace and non-violence.

[Hulkster]

In that way it would only be justifying violence....had i been born in such volatile conditions my mind would have turned towards violence...but once i have used violence to achieve liberation...there will come a time that even i myself will be rocking on guilt for the violence used..but maybe i may not be guilty as i might justify myself saying they did it..they treated us like vermin..it was nothing and let it off...not only that the future generation will also inherit it that way...but i would prefer if the violence also culminated in these monsters reforming....look at bangladesh...they have a similar problem to tamil refugees and liberated themselves from this violence...did it end?...it is being continue till now...cos they neva reformed and they still embrace with violence...my testimony is that trying to justify violence in such situations will only lead us to more violence.

Maybe violence seems the best way out now for liberation but whether it will stop the whole problem is a high doubt...and i would like to bring forward a fellow human who also lived in similar volatile times but still managed to perceive with peace and love and won over the british and got their independence. If he can still hold such a strong opinion in his principles of non violence despite the massacres happening in front of him...then i dunt see why it tamil eelam can be liberated through peace.

[Hulkster]

Hulkster, I will give two examples:
1. Your land is occupied. You don't fight. Your religion and culture, preserved for centuries, are slowly erased in front of you. Still you don't fight. Your area is flooded by new people in an effort to change the demographic makeup. You still swear by peace and non-violence. You are finally denied any further chance of getting your rights or land back and are forced to come to terms with the reality of permenant slavery. What do you do? You acknowledge the oppressors as your masters and forgo your right to independence.

2. You are discriminated everywhere from education to jobs. You are forced to speak an alien language in your own land. The world watches but no one comes to help. You have remained silent for long enough and decide to fight back. The oppressors relent and call you to the negotiating table.

Which example would you like to be a part of Hulkster? Both are realities: the first is Tibet and the second is Eelam. Oppressors don't understand the language of peace and non-violence: "Thiruppi adichchadhan adiyilirundhu thappikka mudiyum"

We, who hide in our houses, when our neighbors are robbed, don't have the right to preach peace and non-violence.

These are cases where violence is used and perhaps they are justifiable...they are humans and they will not be able to tolerate such atrocities...it is perfectly true mr kannan...but i prefer if they used their violence to also reform these criminals...cos even if they do get liberated..they will still be attacked as we won with violence in bloodshed...not violence in humanity...hope you guys get what i am saying..:)..no offense meant to tamil eelam supporters.

[Hulkster]

I shall then conclude...Violence can be used...but how it is used is the probable question..do you want to liberate yourself by fighting with your blood or fighting with your love...using violence in such volatile conditions is not condemned due to the trauma faced by such people...but if we can also make the people who caused these atrocities understand what they have done...make them face the guilt...then this is where victory has been truly achieved..:)

[Anoushka]

I see people here saying violence is the only way and violence is the last resort, etc. Try being on the other side - as some one at the recieving end, then you will know why violence is not good!

Ask a man who beats his wife and he will tell you that she does not listen to him, as the wife and she will have some justification of why she did what she did. So is the man correct in beating his wife after all? Violence is not good whether it is against one person or a community as a whole for whatever reason.

[Anoushka]

Hulkster,
If your livelihood depends on agriculture or suchlike, if you are beaten and thrown out of your won house, if your house is bulldozed even while you are inside, if your land is taken away and not compensated by a similar [cultivable] land, if you are thrust into a place and vocation which you dont want to or not comfortable with, if every PEACEFUL call of yours and your kind is ignored deliberately and systematically, would you still be giving this gyan?


Is that not violence committed here against the one person... that is reason enough to go against violence all the more :)

[r_o_j_a]

violence is type of defense .. it is definately a last resort

[Hulkster]

Anoushka the situations you mentioned above certainly do not require any violence at all...it just goes to show the excuses we show for not being able to control our own emotions....this is a very common thing happening all over the world...another worse type of violence is sexual violence against woman...i will state the traumas if the hubbers and mods are alright with it.

[Hulkster]

Anoushka although what you mean is true..taking a second look at aandavans post and he has a point..we are humans and if we are made to receive such hell...sometimes the mind can snap...at this time it really depends on the strength of the character...whether he is a ghandi or a theeviravaathi.

roja madam yeah it should only be used as a last resort...but it is not always defence...sometimes violence is used as a plan to achieve targets and goals.

[crazy]

...but it is not always defence...sometimes violence is used as a plan to achieve targets and goals.

ayya raasa, targets and goals ennannu therinchukkalaama?
what ever blah blah i will follow violence, iam not gandhi neither annai theresa! if my basic rights r denied, then i have use violence!

[dsath]

Reading through the discussions, i think first the meaning of violence is distorted. Would you describe a tiger hunting a harmless creature as violent? I doubt it. It has to kill in order to survive. But a rhino or elephant killing some harmless creature can be termed as violence. The former can be termed as survival and the later violent behaviour.
We can apply the same rules for Humans. A man beating his wife is violence, but a country fighting for its liberation is not violence, its survival.
When you are oppressed you fight back. There is no shortcut to it.
Example Vietnam, they made the giant withdraw from their territory. There is a lot to learn from them.
Even in India's case i think, our "non-violence" policy "succeeded" because of the sheer size and population of our country and not because of the tactics (if we call it that).

[Hulkster]

Well that would come under severe oppression...violence can be used in such situations where your lives are stake..i am not adverse to it..but i prefer if people also used the same violence to reform the enemy...proving who is stronger and who is fitter is not the real victory...proving the enemy of his actions is the real victory...and anyway such wars can be prevented in the first place...if UN had expressed the violence that can be committed during these wars to the aggressor perhaps these would not even have come in place...but yet again they acted as peacemaker and did not take further action...:)

[crazy]

hell with UN
UN goes only in the path of rich country or better US.
UN have no definition nowadays! why should we follow them!? if violence is the only way to get ur rights, then use it!

dsath: yes we all know how ur "non violence" worked and why they just got to "surrender/give it up"!

[dsath]

Fighting back is NOT violence.
Not only life, but the quality of life is important. Would you spend 40 yrs living in a concentration camp( or as a slave) or would you prefer to live in your homeland as a free human for 20 yrs. Which would you choose.
If you choose the former then you can preach non violence and believe everything can be achieved by non violent means.
If you choose the latter then you are a fighter.
Even today i feel, if all of India had united under one leader and fought the British we would have got freedom atleast 200 years before and the face of our nation would have changed and India would definitely be better than what it is now.

[crazy]

Even today i feel, if all of India had united under one leader and fought the British we would have got freedom atleast 200 years before and the face of our nation would have changed and India would definitely be better than what it is now.

dont feel, thats the truth!
naama thaan summa non violence, dharmam, nyayam nu pesurom, pesi pesi ennadha kandhom?

[Hulkster]

Violence can mean causing physical hurt/damage to anybody or a group so fighting back can be considered violence...since we have to "damage" them back to win...the situations you have stated are similar to those aandavan have stated...if we start pointing out such situations...we are only justifying violence and this will seem like a standard set for the future generations...this must stop and we must set an example where we should reform the enemy/aggressor by violence or non-violence...killing them will only aggravate their future generation to attack us again..and this will never stop...is Bangladesh free from violence after is survival against massacre in 1971?....Use violence when everything at stake but remember that reforming the enemy is also a viable option as we do not want this to continue for generations to generations.

Perhaps if we had reformed our enemies after the victory then the future generations would have preached non violence but sadly it has never happened and humans only see wiping out as the only way.

[Hulkster]

As for India the problem is not with freedom...it is from within..how are the people interpreting freedom is the idea..the thing is india made the bad mistake of killing ghandi..had he stayed he might have guided india to being a developed nation like japan,singapore...it is the loss of such leadership that caused chaos and initially wiped out the spirit within the nation to accept the meaning of democracy.

[Chappani]

Hi Hulkster,

you are right, the objective of the violence should be to teach the opponent or rather the oppersor what is wrong from their side that led to all this. I think people start thinking and realising their mistakes only when they loose and I think many will agree to this. When you are on high you always have the opinion that you are correct.

[Hulkster]

Yeah...their pride of winning can overwhelm them and block them from reality...the idea of punishments is the same..you should teach/reform the offender rather than destroying him..same goes for violence...however that violence is for unpreventable cases like the one dsath mentioned above..normal cases like gang riots..sexual violence...and other types can be prevented.

[crazy]

As for India the problem is not with freedom...it is from within..how are the people interpreting freedom is the idea..the thing is india made the bad mistake of killing ghandi..had he stayed he might have guided india to being a developed nation like japan,singapore...it is the loss of such leadership that caused chaos and initially wiped out the spirit within the nation to accept the meaning of democracy.

aama aama naanga appadiye kodi katti parandhiruppom!
hulk 1000 periyaar vandhalum, gandhi vandhalum namma sannanga thirundhaadhu! ada solla neeyarunnu kedkaateenga, andha naadila irundhu paathudhu vandhu thaana solluren!

i once said that india will only go forward, only if bann caste system as a whole, following communist idea, stop following the path of cinema hero and hero ins, and STOP KODU SATHIKKULA GUDURAI ODURADHU! naama palangadhai pesiye periya pulavaranome thavira ethuvum saadicha thaa enakku theriyal

[Hulkster]

What i meant was that had Ghandi been alive then...there was a possiblity that he might have reformed the country...it just happened people are divided by religions and castes and they destroyed themselves from within by such fights...this has been an age old story and it can be prevented...you dunt really need a extraordinary person to do this...if every state/gramam has two thinking individuals they can cleanse their areas and subsequently the whole country can be cleansed...it is just that fear is cultivated since young that is destroying the probabilities of such things happening.

[crazy]

HULK i think gandhi spells like this.

anyway i dont want to argue further more, one leads to another!
i only want to say that i worship gandhi, but it would rather prefer to be netaji!

thank u and bye!

[Hulkster]

Anyway guys...violence is not just suited to war...so now i shall move to another type of violence...man on women..i would like you guys to give your views on why man at times show violence on women and how this can be prevented.

[girishk14]

Violence is basically just the quarrel over differences between each other. In ths world, if people increase their tolerance and learn to accept other's feeling, the world will be a happy place for all.

Even in this hub everyday, we see Ajith-Vijay quarrels over which Pongal movie did better, etc. If both Ajith fans and Vijay fans agree upon each other's personal likes and dislikes, everything will be fine....

[Hulkster]

Girish er....could you please use another example that does not bring in ajith and vijay or any other tamil film actors here....yeah its true abt increasing the tolerance...:)

[Ghlli]

ada super violence...i loveee fightinggg :D
i love to kuthu, kick and bite :mrgreen: :lol:

[Lambretta]

*dg
HULK i think gandhi spells like this.
Tats rite.....:)
"Ghandi" is more like an anglicized or incorrect spelling used by most Westerners....donno how its still got wrong in the west even after the movie "Gandhi"...:)

/dg

[crazy]

*dg
HULK i think gandhi spells like this.
Tats rite.....:)
"Ghandi" is more like an anglicized or incorrect spelling used by most Westerners....donno how its still got wrong in the west even after the movie "Gandhi"...:)

/dg

u know how they spell gandhi, its more like gaandee! poor him, i always used to tell ppl how to spell gandhi, but its .............useless!

[Lambretta]

*dg
u know how they spell gandhi, its more like gaandee! poor him, i always used to tell ppl how to spell gandhi, but its .............useless!
They spell it tat way too?? Or u mean its pronounced tat way? :?
Yea its a pity no doubt....but most of our own ppl. dont really care abt him nowadays neways, so....! :oops: :(
/dg

[crazy]

Yea its a pity no doubt....but most of our own ppl. dont really care abt him nowadays neways, so....! :oops: :(
/dg

yeah i dont care about who cares or not, but i do care and i wont let ppl say gaandee in front of me!

[Lambretta]

yeah i dont care about who cares or not, but i do care and i wont let ppl say gaandee in front of me!
'am proud of u, crazy!! :clap: :thumbsup: :D

Neways, wat I meant is, leave alone the westerners mispronouncing Gandhi's name, even many of our own ppl. dont hav regard for him...! :(
U wont belive this incident, but I'm currently taking English tutions for a group of school kids at a house this month....I was discussing abt essay-writing w. them in wich one talked abt their fav. leader.....she'd wanted to talk abt Gandhi & then suddnely sum other kids ther began talking ill of him, calling him names......wen I asked them y, 2 of them went on saying tat he was an impractical fool w/ his ideas on non-violence/ahimsa etc., wich only made us weaker in front of the British etc....& these 2 kids r like, in jus 7th/8th standard! :shock: :x
It all sounds really shameful! :oops:

Neways, gto sleep now.......cya tomorrow! :wave:

[girishk14]

No neutral party will think that Earth is civilised, which makes it a perfect location for a wipeout of all human race. A species that fights among itself. Civilised indeed. Wars without a purpose, why isn't everybody happy with the amount of power that they have? They want to be more and more powerful, at the expense of others. Civilised indeed. So many lives are lost just for a high post or authorisation. Why can't anybody co-operate and be happy with what they have? A simple thing a wars errupt. Instead, they can use this time to become more advanced. Instead of destroying others, they can make themsleves stronger without causing harm to anybody. But one thing is for sure. No matter how advanced humans are, whether with cannons or atomic bombs or plasma guns, they will continue fightimg for power. Greed is something which has existed from the starting of the unverse. It is an obsession that cannot be destroyed. If it is banished from the hearys of humans, we will surely live in a much better and peaceful world.

[Hulkster]

Nice post girish....that is one of the feeling in humans that they neva control...greed for power..these are emotions that can be controlled...:thumbsup: