Hi, I'm new here. Indians are zany.

[chaipau]

Hi:

Why Chaipau? Well, I initially tried to register with my usual forum name, rh001, but someone already had it, so I went with the name of my favorite Indian, little Chaipau from Salaam Bombay!

I have been studying Indian culture lately and found this message board, and let me say that it is both educational and practical to read the dialougues of actual Indians discussing their culture.

In the future I will post questions regarding Indian culture and hope to receive expert answers - that is, the answers of actual Indians.

I notice that many who post at the Hub have a good command of English. Is this a place where mostly well educated people hang out?

Any book titled "Indian Culture" will likely be a bit of a whitewash, me thinks. I like a more hands on, back door approach.

I like to use Google and search for images of India and Indian people. There are so many pics available, it's almost as if I can travel to India through my computer monitor.

What colorful clothes! What an array of styles! Yet generally conservative hair styles. I sense that Indians don't like a hair out of place.

(I just finished a dinner of Bengali lentils and palak paneer.)

Am I correct in thinking that Indian children have the most beautiful smiles in the world? (What happens to the adults?)

But here is my first revelation:

I used to think either Americans or Italians were the zaniest people on the Planet, but now I think it's the Indians! Of course I mean this in an affectionate and complimentary way.

The Italians and Americans may be more outwardly hedonistic than the Indians, and that may make them seem more zany. But then I learn that India has tons of prostitutes and a very high rate of HIV, so that just makes me think the apparent outward reserve of Indians may not be the real Indian.

I recently watched Lagaan. What a great movie that was! Bollywood movies are not that easy to find in video rental stores-- even here in Hollywood! It felt to me like an American movie, an American theme. Well, we too had to kick the behinds of the British. I've been recommending this movie to everyone I know, but many people just can't handle foreign films due to having to read the subtitles, and also India just isn't fashionable at the moment in the USA.

But as for myself, I find I am falling in love with India. What is happening to me?

Cheers

[bingleguy]

I used to think either Americans or Italians were the zaniest people on the Planet, but now I think it's the Indians! Of course I mean this in an affectionate and complimentary way.

U call Indians Zany .... n that too in an affectionate way .... :shock:

It looks as if u excoriate the ladder after u ve just used that for climbing !

[chaipau]

Bingle:

Perhaps you are not working with the best definition of the word "zany" .

For instance, the frequent song and dance routines in Bollywood films make the films "zany".

In Lagaan, the vilagers were "crazy" to wager their land in a game of cricket, which they had never played before. But their endeavor to learn the game and beat the British was carried out in a "zany" way. Absent that "zaniness" the movie would not have been humorous.

Monty Python and The Three Stooges are "zany".

Italian and Indian traffic in big cities is "zany"

Holi is "zany", just as is Carnival in New Orleans and Brasil.

Does that help?



Cheers

[bingleguy]

See Chipau ... what may be in ur mind may not be same on the others !

the four letter word may be used for many reasons .... but that doesnt mean that the base meaning changes ;-)

Well dude .... i guess anybody who sees this would really take the word zany forits very meaning ... n not what u thought or wanna say ... anyways ... am not interested to ponder on this further .... lets see if others get it right ! :-) have a great time hubbing !

[Lambretta]

Chaipau,
At the outset, welcome to the Hub! :)

What colorful clothes! What an array of styles! Yet generally conservative hair styles. I sense that Indians don't like a hair out of place.
Colourful clothes yes, mostly in case of the women tho! :) But even tat's on the decrease.....:(
So r conservative hairstyles...atleast in the metros...


Am I correct in thinking that Indian children have the most beautiful smiles in the world? (What happens to the adults?)
Well I think all children in the world hav beautiful smiles. :)


The Italians and Americans may be more outwardly hedonistic than the Indians, and that may make them seem more zany. But then I learn that India has tons of prostitutes and a very high rate of HIV, so that just makes me think the apparent outward reserve of Indians may not be the real Indian.
Um....chaipau, frankly I wudnt think tat one cud form such an opinion abt India rightaway based on certain -ve incidents tat r occuring here....prostitution & HIV is a problem occuring in practically every part of the world! India isnt even on the same platform as countries like Thailand in this regard.....
Its true tat ther r deteriorations like these occuring more in Indian society now- even among women- but tat doesnt mean it cud be taken as our true nature! The main reason for this is increase in materialism.....the educated urban ppl. esp. r getting into the illusion tat the 'developed' nations emphasise on a very liberal life whereas Indian culture is full of restrictions/rigid customs wich dont give ne "fun".....& factors like globalisation r playing a major role in this.....but it doesnt mean tat this is going to be the 'new' face of Indian society from now on or nething...its just a momentary turbulence tat u see going on.....
Neways, 'hope we cud hav sum +ve interactions here abt Indian culture.......feel free to discuss! :)

[skchitharanj]

Chaipau,
It's sad that you aren't able to find friends that share your enthusiasm for Bollywood cinema, especially in Hollywood of all places. I think that you must not be looking in the right places. I go to a midwestern university and this campus is riddled with Bollywood enthusiasts...so much so that it makes me feel guilty for my relatively sparse knowledge of it.
Also, India is at the peak of fashion here in the USA...everywhere I look I see Indian-inspired clothing, decorations and jewelry. Indian restaurants are opening everywhere. While there is much more to be appreciated, it is only the material things such as food and style that ever become trendy here. Again, I feel that if you looked in the right places, you might be able to find some that share your passion. Good luck.

[Lambretta]

While there is much more to be appreciated, it is only the material things such as food and style that ever become trendy here.
Exactly! our ppl. r so elated abt India being recognised by the US/West but it wud be quite sum time until the REAL India (ie. the culture/values/philosophy) is truly recognised rather than jus the food, fashison, bollywood.....!

[chaipau]

Bingle:

OK, yes, if one use's the definition for 'zany" given for instance at dictionary.com, then that is NOT what I meant.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=zany

That definition may be out of date now, at least for the American use of English.

"Zany" in American English is not usually a derogatory word simply because so many Americans are zany. So since the "sting" of the word has worn off here, the old concept has to be put across with either the word "fool" or "idiot", or sometimes "ape" or "chimp".

Are "zany" comedies popular in India? Was Monty Python ever popular in India? Are the American TV shows, "The Simpsons" and "South Park" televised in India and are they popular?

I still don't have a feel for Indian humor. Sometimes my business associate Pratish Patel tells me what he thinks is a funny anecdote or joke and I often don't "get it".

Can you recommend any Indian comedy films that are zany?

Cheers

[chaipau]

skchitharanj -

OH, well I think the college age kids must be more interested in Bollywood than the average American.

There is also a problem with Americans not liking to have to read subtitled movies. I really like seeing foreign films because I am bored with most Hollywood movies - same stuff, same stories over and over again but with different actors and actresses.

With regards to English language films, I gravitate towards what are known as "independant' films - made without the big budgets and simple minded concerns of Hollywood Studios.

Do you or anyone else here have an estimate as to how popular so-called "independant" English language films are in India?


Cheers

[bingleguy]

Well okies Chipau ... u cleared my doubt !!

[chaipau]

Lambretta:

Thanks for your response to my post.

Is it your opinion that India will not go the way of the hedonistic and materialistic West?

I read in an Indian newspaper that "swinging" has just now begun to take place in some major cities.

Also, I read that pre-marital sex is on the rise in the cities.

Recently there have been gay-pride marches in some cities in India.

I'm not a prude or arch-conservative, it's just that I've seen how the West has devolved. The truth most Westerners will not admit to is that the devolution has very much to do with over-interest in pleasure. Then people become compulsive pleasure seekers and don't realize that the pleasure substance of behavior has "programmed" them like a robot. Bunch of Zombies!

In my opinion, India would be wise to continue to shut out Western culture as much as possible, except those few aspects that are noble, because I know from the experience of living here in America that hedonism and materialism only bring additional social problems, and the "fun" is not in excess of the cost, rather, vice versa.

In fact, only a small percentage of Americans, maybe 20% to 30% will readily admit that decadent Western ways actually contributes to the rise of depression and bipolar disorder. Most Americans are so dumb now after years of hedonism that they are unwilling to see that they cause most of their so-called "mental illnesses".

For instance, the American obesity "epidemic" is actually the result of depression. In the first half of the 20th century, Americans did not have an large scale obesity problem. There is currently a battle in the media between one group of health professionals who are telling people to eat less, and another group who are telling people there is nothing wrong with their eating habits or will-power -- they just need a pill for their obesity.

Since people will rationalize what they are addicted to, such as excessive food, many unenlightened types prefer to take a pill rather than correct their diet and fix their life perspective.

I am aware that India is coming under increasing pressure by Western alcoholic beverage producers to drink more booze. Nothing good will come of that.

Also, I am aware of the paan masala problem in India. The rise in the interest in paan masala indicates to me a rising tide of hedonism. It creeps into a culture slowly at first.

My advice is that India remain a more or less isolationist nation, or at least allow only the export of culture, not the import.

All efforts at adopting Western attitudes that make intoxicants and addicting substances more available should be resisted.

Just have a little bhang once in a while and leave it at that. (tee hee)

Here are some cultural questions I've been wondering about:

Do you have an estimate regarding the percentage of Indians drinking bhang at least once a month? More frequenlty?

Will some Indians only drink bhang during Holi?

Can a person who is respectible drink bhang? Can the respectible person also smoke hash?

Or is drinking bhang considered as similar to smoking hash?

Are hash and marihuana illegal in India?

Which is more common: marijuana (leaf/bud) or hash?

Is bhang Illegal?

How would I know if I was purchasing bhang made with cannibis bud, or the type that is made without it?


Cheers

[happyindian]

My advice is that India remain a more or less isolationist nation, or at least allow only the export of culture, not the import.


That's a v.tuf proposition Chaipau :) .

There are westerners chanting vedic hymns and there are those deriding them in India. There are ppl who blame the west for the growing promiscous culture in India and then there are those who know very well that the only diff b/w the present and the past is that its all a lot more in the open now.

At the end of the day, its not abt someone from the west or east, its abt each one's personal choice. It really does not matter if you are an Indian or American -- race n place is a thing of the past in this global village-- its abt who you are as a person.


Here are some cultural questions I've been wondering about:

Do you have an estimate regarding the percentage of Indians drinking bhang at least once a month? More frequenlty?

Will some Indians only drink bhang during Holi?

Can a person who is respectible drink bhang? Can the respectible person also smoke hash?

Or is drinking bhang considered as similar to smoking hash?

Are hash and marihuana illegal in India?

Which is more common: marijuana (leaf/bud) or hash?

Is bhang Illegal?

How would I know if I was purchasing bhang made with cannibis bud, or the type that is made without it?

Bhang-drinking is common in N.India. In the south, they don't drink bhang, they drink toddy.

In UP & Bihar, Bhang is treated more like country liquor and any important ocassion calls for Bhang-ho-jaye.

During Holi, bhang is drunk a wee bit by everyone irrespective of status / respectability. It was drunk by Lord Shiva!

You must notice that from the way the bhang drink is prepared (using milk, ginger, pepper, cinnamon, fennel seeds, cardamom, rose petals, etc though cannabis is the main base), it is considered a medicinal drink. It is supposed to be drunk in moderation (a teaspoon is given as prasad during holi and that is considered "sufficient"). For some reason, the narcoctic effect is considered 'balanced" or evened out / removed from the way the drink is prepared.

Holi occurs around spring, and this drink supposedly cools the body and prepares ppl to withstand the oncoming heat. It is perhaps something like how the medical fraternity used opium's therapeutic effects for pain management in the past. It helped / helps yogis to go for days on end without food / water until they cud sustain the absence of both without the need for bhang.

Bhang drunk like liquor is actually its misuse for the 'high" it gives like in drug abuse. Therefore village men substitute it for drug abuse in the northern lands.

Bhang drink is not illegal in India.

A lot depends on how you make the bhang drink with a lot or with a little bit of cannabis leaves / buds.

Cannabis supposedly becomes narcotic after purification and is not really so in its raw form: http://www.cannabis.uk.net/raw%20cannabis/RAW%20CANNABIS.htm

Here's the traditional recipe: http://www.geocities.com/sarabhanga/bhang.html

Bhang Lassi: http://leda.lycaeum.org/Documents/Bhang_Lassi.4774.shtml

Drinking Bhang is not considered similar to smoking hash. Hash and Marijuana are both illegal as they are highly narcotic even in tiny amounts.

You wud know from the taste if the bhang you are buying is contains cannabis or not.

I had been drinking a teaspoon or so for years during Holi prayers but I do not know if it contained cannabis or not. It tasted a lot like milk with sugar and pepper but with a very odd after-taste.

[chaipau]

HappyIndian:

Thanks for the reply. Very Interesting.

But, I still have some confusion.

In one of the Bhang recipes you linked, an ounce of leaves and bud are called for.

How does one obtain that leaf and bud if it is illegal? Or is only smoking it illegal?

In what kinds of stores is it sold?

If it is legally sold, what keeps the nation from becoming a nation of potheads?

Do you think a greater percentage of Indians in India or Americans in America smoke pot?

An ounce of marijuana to 4 cups of liquid?

In the USA, the marijuana would cost $400 to $600, depending on the dealer and quality.

So lets take the lower figure of $400.00.

Then a teaspoon of Bhang would here would cost about $400/192=$2.00

In the USA, $2.00 could purchase one or two nice pastries, or six donuts, or a large coffee at Starbucks.

Is Bhang usually mixed up and distributed amoung friends and family, or is it sold, and if so, in little tiny teaspoon sized cups? Sold this way, does it cost about the same as 1 or two nice pastries?

I have a hunch the raw cannibis must be much less expensive there.

When exactly and in what setting is the teaspoon of Bhang partaken? You said you took it before prayers? In the temple?

When I see pictures on the internet of Indians coloring each other on the streets during Holi and dancing around bonfires, have they just had a little bhang prior to the fun?

How old does one have to be for one's parents to allow the teaspoon of bhang during Holi?

No, I'm not planning to come to India to "score" (obtain) marijuana or Bhang. It's just something I was curious about and wanted to get clarity on.

Regarding alcohol:

Internet information from various "proper" websites, such as travel sites and Indian cultural sites conveys the impression that Hindus drink very little alcohol, except for criminals and those who may turn to it due to impoverishment or severe stress.

For instance, at a half dozen Indian travel websites it is claimed that most Indian restaurants will not have liquor for sale.

An American traveling in India commented on how in Delhi he could find no nightlife after 10pm, except at two large hotels. This American had obtained liquor from a village and showed up intoxicated in Delhi, and was dispatched from a restaurant in which he attempted to order a meal and drink the liquor he had brought from the village, as no liquor, wine or beer could be obtained at that eatery. Later he was dispatched from a disco he had gained entrance to on cause of intoxicated behavior.

My apologies for this oaf.

However, it was that American's observation that the Indians at the restaurant and to his astonishment at the disco were almost, if not totally sober, and he commented that they danced rather conservatively.

I know there are one or two dry states in India, with movements for prohibition is a few other states.

So I don't understand the role of alcohol in Indian society. I've never seen Indian beer in stores here, but we have Chinese, Japanese and Thai beer. I think I've seen Filipino beer.

What kinds of stores sell wine, beer and liquor? Grocery stores? Or is it only available in liquor stores?

How old must one be to buy these beverages?

If one seems drunk in public, what is the likelyhood of arrest if a policeman should happen by?

Are alcoholism and drug addiction considered a spiritual failings?

http://www.ias.org.uk/publications/theglobe/01issue3,4/globe0103_04_p27.html

http://www.unhooked.com/sep/thirdworl.htm


Would you agree that only about 20% of Indians drink Alcohol? So I guess Muslims are figured into that number, which would mean that maybe 30-35% of Hindus drink alcohol?

So, if Manu advises against drinking alcohol, I guess it was around in his day.

If the rise in alcohol consumption is coincident with the arrival of Western Culture, then I think this trend is a mistake for India.

Alcohol consumption in the USA is considered by sane people to be rather stupid and something only done out of weakness. Of course, no one is perfect.

The quantity of American death and serious injury in Iraq is infintesimal to that caused by drunk driving and other accidents related to intoxication here within our borders. So the alcohol and drug problem is actually worse than some amount of war. And in fact, in the case of war, there may actually be something to be gained.

Thanks

Cheers

[chaipau]

Happy Indian:

I will have to disagree with you about corruption and personal choice or integrity.

All corruption is spread person to person, or person-media-person.

The West has been dealing with the social problems of alcohol and drug use for some time now, and finally I think there is a slight downward trend in the popularity of intoxication.

After much analysis, and especially analysis from the field of neuroscience, it is now understood by a few percent of the population that alcohol and so-called "recreational" drugs actually bypass the brain's faculties of judgment and cause the brain and mind to give them a positive valuation, and the person has the illusion of having "decided for themselves" that they like the substance.

It's actually the substance that does the deciding.

Then the substance creates a need for itself after the brain and body clear it out of the system. This absence of the drug leaves what is like a molecular hole in some brain structure, which then produces the thoughts to re-aquire the substance. This is all happening at the molecular, inter-synaptic level, which means below the level of thought, and so is in effect mind control. The drug actually controls the thoughts about itself.

The West has enormous police and prison costs due to alcohol and drugs.

Do the television shows "Cops" and 'America's Most Wanted" air in India? If so then you will see how so much of crime here is intertwined with addiction and intoxication. In many cities the police get over-loaded with calls to homes in which there is a "domestic quarrel". Almost always, the fight between the husband and wife or boyfriend and girlfriend is precipitated by alcohol and drug use.

It is not sufficient to say that it is up to each person to be "good" when the substance itself operates on the brain below the level of thought.

That some people don't like alcohol or drugs, or rarely have more than one or two drinks does not really mean they are "good", it means that something else in the substance disagrees with them, or they have anxiety about the onset of the feeling of the loss of control, that is, the onset of mind control.

Let me put it another way. If one is wise, one may really like alcohol, and still choose not to partake.

Yet someone not so wise may not partake simply because it doesn't agree with them.

So there can be confusion about why a person doesn't drink or take drugs. It's not always that they are noble.

But the person that gets intoxicated on either alcohol or drugs is sometimes a vulgar citizen who has little mindullness and cares not what may come of their drinking. Yet other times, a good person is induced into trying a substance, and little by little if conditions are right they get hooked.

Look at all the homeless children with their solvent/glue sniffing. They're not really bad children, they've been induced, or to use the old terminolgy, seduced.

Millions of people who cause serious and fatal auto accidents after drinking had previously thought of themselves as good, honest persons.

So what I'm saying is that alcohol and drug use and the associated desire for pornography and unusual sex will increase, not just because people are "bad", but because the substances take over their minds.

All the purveyors of these substances understand this. Not a one of them have any good intentions. They all lie like snakes.


The good, kind Indians are known to be trying to eliminate the sex trade from Nepal and within India. Alcohol is usually available at the brothels. All corruptions are linked together. Where you find one, you find others.

The British brought a lot of alcohol with them to India, and then participated in the increase of the local production of alcohol, especially beer and whisky.

The British have a long history of drunkeness. They seduced the Indians. Misery loves company.

The prohibition and sobriety movement in American has been ongoing since about 1880. First, laudnum (opium syrup) was prohibited, then cocaine, (original Coca-Cola had cocaine in it), then heroin (Sigmund Frued was hooking his patients on cocaine and heroin), and finally alcohol in 1929, but then alcohol prohibition was overturned because the mind control of alcohol was deeply ingrained in the population.

Mark my words, due to inaction you will see more and more sexual inuendo in Indian televison and movies, divorce will increase, nihilism will increase, spirituality will decrease, children will whine more and become obnoxious, and STD's will continue to rise and affect the middle and upper classes also.

There will be increasing burdens on the police and prisons.

Pyschiatrists will claim they are coming to the rescue, but they will make things worse, or at best, will be ineffectual.

Americans are becoming increasingly disenchanted with Western psychiatry and psychology. Psychological therapy has not worked. The West has been subjected to these shamans since around 1900, and every year there are more and more out of control and depressed people.

Now psychiatrists prefer to prescribe "psych meds" and shove their patients out the door. People get hooked on these psych meds and rarely show any improvement, although they may be slowed down enough so that they are less irritating to others and themselves.

Many honest pyschiatrists and psychologists are speaking out against the over-prescribing of these meds, and against making unsupportable favorable claims for these meds.

It's really a mess over hear.

With India's poverty issues, the last thing the nation needs is more alcohol and Western hedonism.

Because alcohol and drugs temporarily reduce anxiety, a struggling people will be especially easy to addict.

The discussion need not even center around religious traditions, which have been mostly correct in this area of substance abuse. Now that the neuroscience of pleasure has been decoded, the discussion is only about the seduction of one person or group by another, for the gain of the seducer at the expense of the seduced.

Gaming and treachery.

Indians are kidding themselves if they don't beleive that there are conspiracies underway to further and further addict them. 1 billion people! Such a potentially lucrative market!

You know, if I was in charge of India, I would block all Western hedonistic culture from being accessed by internet, Asian hedonism also, and I would require all Westerners to submit to a morals review and background investigation before being granted admission into the country.

Some people here in the USA think I'm a bit extreme in my views. I am not part of any fundamentalist sober Christian group. Also, I am not a Scientologist. But, I know what I'm talking about. I've watched the mess develop gradually for my entire 45 years.

When I was a child, I thought Western society was improving. I was hopeful. I expected crime to almost vanish in my lifetime. Ha Ha, was I wrong!

And now India?

Well, I've gone a bit off the topic of this thread. Now I'm tired and I have to lie down.

Good Luck

[bingleguy]

Man ... i have to spend atleast to read this one post :lol:

[ramky]

hi "chaipau" ! glad that ur interested in knowing about indians.

India has looked towards the West for Material success, while the West has been seeking Indian gurus and, Religious & Sprititual guidance. If the Material and Spiritual halves are equally balanced, like the two wings of a bird, then any person - be it an American or Indian - can find lasting peace. And if such a peace could be found, not only for the individual, but also for his family, then for his community, his region, his country, .... there will not be so many conflicts going around in this world.

[chaipau]

Hi Ramky:

Yes, I agree with you.

I predict the USA/Western World and India will gradually become greater partners in the effort to prove to the rest of the world the beneft of a system that values democracy, religious tolerance, restrained capitalism and socialism.

History will show that India's Green Revolution (still ongoing) has more or less worked and now she is undergoing a kind of second Industrial/Technological revolution that will be built upon the ever-strengthening agricultural base.

I only hope India will be spared most of the misery the West has suffered due to Industrialization and Modernization, namely nihilism, consumerism, alcohol and drug addiction, and crime. All attempts by purveyors of intoxicants and insanities to increase their sales should be resisted.

Regarding the search for spiritual enlightenment by the West in India and Asia: This search grew out of disillusionment with Christianity brought on by the Enlightenment and the associated rise in atheism and nihilism. However, for the most part, Westerners have not found spiritual salvation in Eastern disciplines because what most Westerners were seeking was validation for a lifestyle that included both phony piety and sexual freedom.

Serious, carefully observant searchers found out that Jains, B'hai, Hindu's and Buddhists disapproved of excessive intoxication, sex before marriage, homosexuality and crazy sex and actually kept close watch on their daughters so that they would not be bedded by a boy before marriage. In fact, apparently the arranged marriage is still quite common in the East, not only in India but in other parts of Asia, especially in non-urban areas.

Also, Westerner's were not looking for the Hindu way of allowing men to have extra-marital affairs while the woman was denied this activity. That was a kind of double standard, and the West has been on a path of eliminating double standards for about 100 years now.

The Hari Krishna's never had great popularity here, and now even less, as it gradually became apparent that most of them were just rebels against their parents, who were likely dysfuntional half-religious or phony religious parents.

And the practice of Yoga in the USA has become little more than a narcissistic pursuit. But it does bring about better health, so at least there is that benefit.

Now that what I call the drunken period of the West's discovery of Indian and Eastern religions is over, I hope a new and deeper cross cultural understanding will develope.

All the most important, life enhancing teachings of the Indian religions and Christianity are almost the same - love of neighbor, humility, sanity, cleanliness, acceptance of fate while trying to improve the conditions of life.

What I hope will come about from greater dialogue between India and the USA is a recognition by Americans that, both in India and the East, the sane, calm-minded and happiest people are those who take their religion seriously, to the extent one can, and that the longevity of India as a culture is due to the conservative elements of Hindu religious practices, not the Kama Sutra elements.

I was in Yosemite National Park last week and was taking notice of the Indians and Asians there. (People from all over the world can be found in Yosemite). Indian and Asian children seem to be calmer than American children. Also, it was apparent that the Indian and Asian fathers kept very close watch over their children, like shepherds. And while some of the Indian fathers and mothers were chubby, I saw no Indian or Asian obesity. I did see American/Western obesity. A lot of Americans are food addicts.

Of course, the sample of Indians and Asians in Yosemite is likely skewed towards the educated and affluent. I'm sure in India there are wild children that cause their parents to have headaches. But I wonder if the percentage of out-of-control children is still less than in the USA and West.

For instance, in the USA and West we have a problem with some teenagers, usually girls, becoming anorexic or bulimic. These mental disorders are almost unheard of in India and most of Asia, and are only found amoungst the middle and upper Westernized class. I consider these conditions to be spiritual disorders, not mental disorders.

Still today most Americans are not aware of how Conservative many Indians and Asians are. I grew up in San Franscisco and so I was aware that Asians can be very conservative. Despite the number of Asians living in San Francisco, there is a noticable lack of Asian girls outside. Their parents keep them inside, safe from boys, and studying their school subjects.

I did not get a chance to chat with any Indians in Yosemite as I was on a bit of a schedule - had a mountain to climb (center, in picture 7 of my photo album - see link below). I did notice that there was a lack of Indians and Asians at the higher altitudes where one has to backpack and pitch tents and the like.

Can anyone tell about the extent to which backpacking and camping is popular amoungst Indians? I hear the Himalayan Mountains are popular with Westerners. I have seen pictures and they are stunningly beautiful.


Cheers

http://www.robharveyphotos.photosite.com

http://www.nps.gov/yose/home.htm

[johntony]

hi, chaipau

i have found what u meaned by "zany" by visiting following link.

http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/zany?view=uk

[chaipau]

Hi Johntony:

That definition for zany is fairly accurate. And, as I mentioned, at least with regards American English, zany is not a pejorative word.

To further aid other Indians in understanding how an American would apply the word zany to something Indian, click this link to see a video of Indian traffic. This scene always elicits laughter from my firends and associates. Also, we wonder how such driving is even possible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9OoitJcNrA

Is that video a fair representation of urban Indian traffic?

If I ever visit India, I will have to have a driver as I could not possibly tolerate the stress this kind of driving would cause me.

Since I started this thread I have been continuing to study Indian culture using the internet. So many pictures and so much information is available. It is quite impossible for a Westerner to actually understand Indian culture - one would have to be born and raised in India to understand. The culture is so strange to me I feel as if Indians are from another planet. Therefore, if I visit India one day I will tell my friends I am going on an intergalactic vacation.

Here a couple questions...perhaps some may like to answer:

The Indian toilet is of course a hot topic of conversation for Western visitors in India. I have found many pictures on the Internet of Indian toilets, and all those to whome I have shown them remark as to how difficult it would be to adjust to not only squatting as opposed to sitting, but also to wiping with the left hand, actually touching the feces and the anus, as opposed to using toilet paper. (Although many Westerners I assume clean their anuses in the shower--I know I do.)

My questions are:

1) What percentage of Indians actually perform a full cleaning after pooping? Or do some just perform a little splash-splash and leave some poopy residue behind?

2) In the case of men, are the pants/lungee and underwear (if any)
fully removed before squatting? I assume then that the women in dresses or saris fully remove their underpanties, yes? I don't see clothes hooks in pictures of Indian loos. If the lower clothes are removed, are they held in the hands? But then how is cleaning performed?
Is the bucket of water filled before pooping?

3) Are Indians diligent about washing up the scene of the crime after use? Or would I expect, in restaurants and other public gathering places, to encounter many left over bits and pieces from the previous users?

4) Is it a sign of higher culture or caste to keep the toilet cleaner?

5) How many men stand to pee, rather than squat. Is this a matter about which men might not be truthful, claiming never to stand even though in fact they may sometimes?

6) How do the elderly with bad backs and achy joints manage to squat without agony?

7) How diligently is the left hand washed after cleaning the poop? Is soap readily available always used to wash that lefty? Manu recommended scrubbing the hands with sand or dirt to clean them. Is this ritual observed when soap is unavailable?

8) While I see in pictures that Indians will only eat with the right hand, I assume cooks use both hands in the preparation of food. If that is so, then do most Indians recognize this paradox? Or is the knowledge of left hand food prep just sort of conveniently forgotten?

9) On a related subject, I'd like to know how often Indians fully wash themselves or shower? Travelers in India seem to like to take pictures of Indians washing themselves on the streets of cities and along the banks of rivers and streams in the villages. Am I to understand that such bathers don't strip to full nakedness, but instead slip the soap down and around the pelvic area underneath the lower garments, and then pour a bucket of water into the lower garment to rinse the soap away?

10) Do Indians get totally nude to wash when in the privacy of their homes, even when they are washing in their yards because they don't have a bona fide shower stall?

11) Can a husband and wife get nude and wash together? If so, can this only be done when no children are around to see?

12) After what age are boys and girls required to wash separately?

13) Is it true that in the villages and amoung the urban poor who have no toilet, that girls and women must do their defecating (wherever they do) before sunrise and after sunset? And what if they just can't hold it?

14) How many times a day do Indians brush their teeth?


And yet another related matter:

15) Why do so many Indians go into the ocean wearing their street clothing? Am I correct in percieving that boys are allowed to go swimming with short pants and no shirt up to a certain age, but then are expected to conform to fully clothed ocean swimming and wading? Is a man acting brazenly who swims or wades into the ocean with no shirt on ? Will some Indians be offended by this?

16) If an Indian father or mother sees their unmarried daughter looking with interest at an attractive shirtless boy or man, will she be chastised or cautioned?



These questions are typical of the thoughts that Westerners have about the Indian toilet and the culture of washing, swimming and exposure of skin. Such thoughts spring to mind automatically due to the difference in our cultures. I understand that Indians reading this post may think I'm daft or zany. When you are accustomed to something it does not seem unusual.

But I think most Indians will be sympathetic to my questions, as I am aware that Indian men here in the USA like to go to the beach and see Western women in their bikinis.

Are my questions offensive? Am I introducing subject matters into conversation that no Indian would bring up due to a sense of propriety? In the West we too have a sense of propriety, at least some of us do, however it is more liberal (I think) than in India.


Cheers

[silly girl]

Its true tat ther r deteriorations like these occuring more in Indian society now- even among women- but tat doesnt mean it cud be taken as our true nature! The main reason for this is increase in materialism.....the educated urban ppl. esp. r getting into the illusion tat the 'developed' nations emphasise on a very liberal life whereas Indian culture is full of restrictions/rigid customs wich dont give ne "fun".....& factors like globalisation r playing a major role in this.....but it doesnt mean tat this is going to be the 'new' face of Indian society from now on or nething...its just a momentary turbulence tat u see going on.....
Neways, 'hope we cud hav sum +ve interactions here abt Indian culture.......feel free to discuss! :)[/quote]


Many stupid Americans that I know think that we have the best funnest culture, they are egocentrical like that. But I do not agree and I hope that you are right and all this copying off of our culture will have its limits or even revers in time! Yall have such a rich culture and you should fight to keep it, Pleeeeeeeeaaaassssseeeee! The world should not become like one big materialistic, sex crazed America. I had an ex who used to tell me about all their wonderfull family traditions in Pakistan and how they dress, and even how the women dress modestly , which I feel is a virtue. I believe Indian culture is essential and should not disappear.

[silly girl]

I'm confused, I think I posted this on the wrong thread somehow! oops, I need to get used to this :oops:

ok ignore that, sorry! :roll: everythings cool. 8-) so far.

[Lambretta]

Hey chaipau,
Interesting (& too familiar!) video tat was!
Incidentally, even b4 reading the comments I cud guess tat the city in the video was Hyderabad (wher I come from! :)) goin by the white/orange local Buses & yellow Auto-rickshaws (3-wheeled taxis)...
Neways, as for ur qsns......hoooo boy! :oops: :P :lol:
Never mind how they r gonna be taken (yea most of them esp. the toilet talk do sound uncomfy!), gotta figure how long its gonna take to answer them all! :lol:
Man u sure r knowledge-hungry abt India......altho in a rather unusual way! :D
Silly girl, nice to read ur comments too.....and u dont sound silly at all! In fact I'm touched by ur 1st post abt India...!
Yea, I hope the ppl. wake up to the facts tat r around them, sum day!
Btw, r u American as in by race or of India origin but American-born? :)

[gnk]

Hey chaipu ..

i am an indian ..and only recently settled in India. .( though this is only temporary .... i l l return to the middle east after i finish my studies here .)

i have met many people from west ..and there is a LOT that i would like to talk about ... ill post it soon ...right now ..got no time ... so cya later ....

[johntony]

wanna know abt india pls follow link in my signature. :D :D

[johntony]

dear chaipau the video u have showed is cleverly edited in its playing speed to put funny sense in it. though i agree that there are lake of proper traffic system in india but the edied video does not shows the real picture of traffic in india. u never picturise india in its real form from your home pls make a tour to india ,and before making it consult any friends relatives(who travelled india) or anyone in your town how to travel india with less discomfort .

cheers

[gnk]

well ...chaipu ..i d like to know .. which place you are from ..and also ..lets discuss whether it is important to go on living according to the indian culture .
a lot of it ..is good. .and an equal sized portion of the indian culture forces practices that will not allow the entire human race to live in peace

for example dowry ...even if a hundred mahatmas and other leaders are born in india.. ....... the dowry aspect never goes ....

well i am not trying to say the concept of dowry as such is wrong.....

the original concept of dowry in india was different ...it was a girls share of wealth ...
to be kept for her dignity and protection after marriage ...it is her discretion to use it if she wants for her in laws husband or anything ... that she wants to spend it on ....

traditionally the parents gave in the form of dowry ...everything that was essential for living like utensils , beds , pillows etc ...may be some cattle ..or land and jewelery ..to keep them going at the time of some financial crisis ..

but over the centuaries ..this has become some sort of demand. .

if a girl is with a her parents for a long tiem ..it means there is soemthing wrong with the girl and that is why she was not able to get married for so long ..