Consciousness, death and life...

[PVR]

There was an interesting discussion on consciousness and death... sometime back.
To understand about consciousness, death and life it is useful take the life of a person on a day to day basis.
After a good night's sleep a person wakes up still enjoying the bliss of deep sleep. He/she goes through the day's activities blissfully, provided he is able to maintain the sense of equilibrium by successfully tackling the day's problems. At the end of the day if he is still blissful, he goes to sleep easily and once again enjoys the bliss of deep sleep. This cycle repeats itself.
If on a particular day the person is unable to cope up with the day's challenges and ends the day in a state of 'lack of bliss', the subsequent sleep is disturbed. On waking up the next day, he feels troubled and his day's activities are also not smooth. What was a simple task on a 'nice' day would now be a uphill task.
The base is the consciousness, whether it is blissful or lacking in it.
That determines the quality of life on a particular day.

Now, the same applies to the life of a person taken as a whole.
At birth most people are born with a blissful inner nature. Depending on how the child is brought up by the parents, his teachers and the society he continues to grow blissfully. In addition, the type of activities he engages in determines his 'bliss' level. At the end of his life if he is blissful, then he goes into a 'long sleep' called death and continues to enjoy bliss in the formless state of the spirit (so called heaven). If on the other hand his life is going to end in a troubled note, the 'long sleep' is going to be lacking in bliss ( so called hell). After thus enjoying the fruits of the previous life's activities he/she comes back (or wakes up) to a new life.

[Shakthiprabha.]

you could hav continued in my thread.

anyway........

Ive read in so many expl something similar to this. That is why i keep asking, the state of bliss is AKIN TO BEING UNAWARE.

Bliss = unaware

cause we are not aware of ourselves in sleep (THOUGH WE ARE CONSCIOUS and RECOLLECT that we had good sleep after we wake up)

[anbu_kathir]

Bliss = unaware


Unaware... of what? the "Reality" as we sense with the senses?

If so, then I am compelled to ask the eternal question, popularised by the Matrix? ... " What is Reality?" .. what if this Reality is a Dream in which "we" ( or whoever is Dreaming this Dream ) are/is Unaware of the fact that this is a Dream...? Isnt that a state of Unawareness also?

Much Love and Light

[PVR]

Bliss = unaware
cause we are not aware of ourselves in sleep (THOUGH WE ARE CONSCIOUS and RECOLLECT that we had good sleep after we wake up)

The Bliss of deep sleep can be consciously enjoyed in the twilight zone between sleep and being fully awake. In fact it is a simple form of meditation to start the day with. The feeling of bliss should be allowed to linger. With some practice, we will find that the good feeling permeates all our thoughts and actions through out the day.

The base of blissful consciousness is understandable.

[PVR]

Bliss = unaware

Unaware... of what? the "Reality" as we sense with the senses?
If so, then I am compelled to ask the eternal question, popularised by the Matrix? ... " What is Reality?" .. what if this Reality is a Dream in which "we" ( or whoever is Dreaming this Dream ) are/is Unaware of the fact that this is a Dream...? Isnt that a state of Unawareness also?


When we wake up from a good sleep, the bliss we enjoy is real. There is no doubt about it.

[thamizhvaanan]

Bliss = unaware


Unaware... of what? the "Reality" as we sense with the senses?

If so, then I am compelled to ask the eternal question, popularised by the Matrix? ... " What is Reality?" .. what if this Reality is a Dream in which "we" ( or whoever is Dreaming this Dream ) are/is Unaware of the fact that this is a Dream...? Isnt that a state of Unawareness also?

Much Love and Light

I agree with SP. Ignorance is bliss. unaware of reality, be it reality itself or a dream.

[anbu_kathir]

Bliss comes out of the Highest Knowledge, "Satchitananda" was always meant to mean "Sat-Existence/Truth", Chit-"Consciousness/Knowledge", and Ananda meaning Bliss or Eternal Happiness


Infact, any people who love solving math can tell you that... it always feels better and happier to have solved a difficult problem, than being totally ignorant of math itself. The problem of the Illusion is quite similar, it feels simply Great to have come out of it with the Awareness, rather than get out of it every night in Deep sleep and come back into it the next morning after a few seconds of being awake.....that kind of Bliss doesnt last for Eternity does it? When one has Constant Awareness, then Bliss shows itself as what its true nature is, Constant and Eternal.


And btw, though people who are Aware in Deep Sleep, do exist, though they are uncommon, and most of them, are always in Bliss




I agree with SP. Ignorance is bliss. unaware of reality, be it reality itself or a dream.

[thamizhvaanan]

yea i guess thats wat is called eternal bliss, but i cant target myself on something which i dont know wether exists or not :(

[PVR]

The Bliss experienced in the twilight zone between deep sleep and being fully awake is the gateway to Eternal Bliss. To concentrate on it is a method of attaining liberation. This is the suggestion given by a Spiritual Master.

[Shakthiprabha.]

hmm,

so it need to be experienced.

BLISS its NOT AKIN to deep sleep. It just can be cited as example alone aint not?

[Braandan]

"Bliss" and all the non-sense are given knowledge by somebody else.. you cannot experience it originally.. how can you experience anything originally without somebody putting it in your head prior to that? How do you "know" it is "bliss" or the lack of it?

[Shakthiprabha.]

braandan,

precisely.

That is why i sometimes feel, ITS ABSENSE OF or lack of feelings which might have been termed as bliss.

How do we know IT IS BLISS OR EVEN LACK OF IT?

Here I assume, lack of every senses is bliss :roll:

[PVR]

It is impossible to understand the taste of sugar by reading a description of it, however eloquent it may be. Only by directly tasting it can it be truly understood.
Similarly, Bliss can be understood only when one experiences it.

[anbu_kathir]

I believe " Bliss " is not the knowledge one learns from another, it is not an object of Knowledge. Instead it is the Knowledge that one becomes. Bliss is What We Are in our purest form ( or non-form). One does not "know" Bliss, Bliss is the natural form of the Knower, the Known and the Knowledge they possess.


One doesn't need to have an head for that, nor can anybody hand over Bliss to another. It is the Experience of the Self, which the Self alone can open one to. Of course, as hinted in the Matrix, the Guru shows the door... but it is only the disciple who chooses to open it, ie open himself to the greatest version of himself, as the " Self" with the caps.

Bliss could be compared to an emotion. I mean, one cant really explain an emotion to another by words or teachings, can they? It is the Self experience that brings about the knowledge.

Much Love and Light.


"Bliss" and all the non-sense are given knowledge by somebody else.. you cannot experience it originally.. how can you experience anything originally without somebody putting it in your head prior to that? How do you "know" it is "bliss" or the lack of it?

[thamizhvaanan]

I believe " Bliss " is not the knowledge one learns from another, it is not an object of Knowledge. Instead it is the Knowledge that one becomes. Bliss is What We Are in our purest form ( or non-form). One does not "know" Bliss, Bliss is the natural form of the Knower, the Known and the Knowledge they possess.


One doesn't need to have an head for that, nor can anybody hand over Bliss to another. It is the Experience of the Self, which the Self alone can open one to. Of course, as hinted in the Matrix, the Guru shows the door... but it is only the disciple who chooses to open it, ie open himself to the greatest version of himself, as the " Self" with the caps.

Bliss could be compared to an emotion. I mean, one cant really explain an emotion to another by words or teachings, can they? It is the Self experience that brings about the knowledge.

Much Love and Light.


anbu, ur previous posts suggest that bliss is nothing but being aware. may be being aware of maya. but how can u be sure that u are not inside any maya. how can u assume that Bliss is an exception for maya. coz so little we know, that we can never ascertain anything. thatswhy my ideology, Ignorance is Bliss :)

much more love to u :P

[anbu_kathir]

Bliss is not inside Maya because its eternal...by eternal I don't mean "everlasting" ,not something like continuing for infinite time, but something that time does not bound, something " out of the mind ( and hence space-time)". Nothing inside Maya is eternal, though it might be seemingly everlasting.

And yes, Bliss is nothing but being Aware, not only of the Illusion, but of Awareness itself... as the SarvaSakshi .. the All Witness.

Love and Light.



but how can u be sure that u are not inside any maya. how can u assume that Bliss is an exception for maya. coz so little we know, that we can never ascertain anything. thatswhy my ideology, Ignorance is Bliss :)

[thamizhvaanan]

Bliss is not inside Maya because its eternal...by eternal I don't mean "everlasting" ,not something like continuing for infinite time, but something that time does not bound, something " out of the mind ( and hence space-time)". Nothing inside Maya is eternal, though it might be seemingly everlasting.

And yes, Bliss is nothing but being Aware, not only of the Illusion, but of Awareness itself... as the SarvaSakshi .. the All Witness.

Love and Light.


ur reply is more of a statement than an explantion- a statement that can be on either side of reality :)

Love, Light and Sound :)

[Shakthiprabha.]

okei this eternal maya, how can we be assured, it is for infinite time?

we cant right. I assume as a cycle, the evolution would keep happening.........

so even if a person is salvated, can we say the bliss is temporary?

[Braandan]

PVR, Anbu kathir,
You are going into the same eternal loop..
how do you know sugar is supposed to be sweet or is a favourable taste to the tongue unless somebody has introduced you to it? .. knower, known, knowledge all these abstract nouns are just nouns, talked by many, but not experienced first hand!
In fact any abstract noun implies its opposite. sweetness implies bitterness, light darkness etc.., the lack of onething is the other! So one does not exist without its opposite!

[anbu_kathir]

Exactly, SP.. The cycle is meant to go on forever. That was the purpose of the Game/Illusion/Maya.

A person who is liberated knows he/she/orwhatever is one with Bliss. But think of this, if all persons are liberated, then Bliss is the only thing there is. Then how would Bliss be experienced? Then you need to have no Bliss. But such a thing is not possible, for Bliss is indeed All That Is. So, there cannot be something that is in essence not Bliss. But there can be something that can forget what it is .. ie forget that it is Bliss, and then find it out again.

That was what the Game is for... to experience the One by Illusory division and recombination. In essence, all this is just a dream.

And so, if a person is liberated, he/she can choose to be born again, and get into another dream and wake up once more. That is the fun, that is the game.

The divisions are imagined again, the Oneness is merely forgotten once more... so that the Joy of remembering again the Oneness can be experienced.

So, Bliss is still eternal, for it is merely forgotten, not lost altogether. All that has to be done is the remembrance of Bliss. It is what we are.

Love and Light.



okei this eternal maya, how can we be assured, it is for infinite time?

we cant right. I assume as a cycle, the evolution would keep happening.........

so even if a person is salvated, can we say the bliss is temporary?

[anbu_kathir]

Dear Braandan....

It is indeed true that this is a eternal loop. It was meant to be so.

Yes.. you are right about the dualities, these are eternal. So all things have opposites... yes. But the lack of one thing, doesnt mean the another necessarily. Does the Lack of Sweetness mean Bitterness? Or does no Bitterness signify Sweetness?.. I dont think so. No taste means no taste, thats it.

This duality are so in Joy ( in a purely material sense ) and Sorrow too. This is the essential duality that religion tries to take one beyond. So I ask ,if there is no sorrow, does it mean joy? or is the statement true otherwise?

Again, there is this state of balance between them too, where one is affected by neither joy nor sorrow. That is Bliss, and that, is Eternal.

This state can be seen by simply observing all Mothers of toddlers. The mental state of joy or sorrow of the mother hardly affects the Love she gives the child. That Love is simply unconditional and unbound. Is there an opposite for a Mothers Love to her child? .. I dont think so. Bliss is somewhat similar, only that one experiences that Love with himself and every other being.

There are people who experience this first hand, of course. You only have to look around. Mother Teresa was one, Gandhi was one, and so was Jesus. They understood what it means to be in Bliss/Love and acted based on their understanding, and ended up giving so much without self-gratification. That, is a characteristic of a person in Bliss.

Of course, there are so many more alive today, giving little or much, in their own way. It is when the smaller Self serves the larger version of itself that Bliss is remembered.

Much Love and Light.






PVR, Anbu kathir,
You are going into the same eternal loop..
how do you know sugar is supposed to be sweet or is a favourable taste to the tongue unless somebody has introduced you to it? .. knower, known, knowledge all these abstract nouns are just nouns, talked by many, but not experienced first hand!
In fact any abstract noun implies its opposite. sweetness implies bitterness, light darkness etc.., the lack of onething is the other! So one does not exist without its opposite!

[thamizhvaanan]

anbu, no reply for me :( :roll:

[anbu_kathir]

Whats the question.. thamizhvaanan? If the question is that how do you know bliss is eternal, then my answer is ... why dont u find it out for urself? Have u tried, taken steps? check it out, dude.

Love and light.

anbu, no reply for me :( :roll:

[PVR]

PVR, Anbu kathir,
You are going into the same eternal loop..
how do you know sugar is supposed to be sweet or is a favourable taste to the tongue unless somebody has introduced you to it? .. knower, known, knowledge all these abstract nouns are just nouns, talked by many, but not experienced first hand!
In fact any abstract noun implies its opposite. sweetness implies bitterness, light darkness etc.., the lack of onething is the other! So one does not exist without its opposite!

Hello everybody!
When sugar is placed on the tongue of a baby, it tastes it and smiles back at you. Nobody taught the baby about the pleasantness of the sugar's taste. It simply appreciates the truth.
It is the mind that complicates the matter. To enjoy Bliss one needs to have a childlike innocence and when one feels it, to simply be one with it. This is easier said than done. I am able to feel Bliss more easily than before through constant practice.
All other opposites disappear when one is Blissful.

[Shakthiprabha.]

Can I place

NEUTRAL in place of BLISSFUL?

Blissful is similar to being neutral.When we are neutral, Neither kind of emotions attack us.

[Hulkster]

I will not associate bliss with theories but here is my own explanation.

Let us take bliss as a simple feeling...how do we feel is it like?...when we have our wishes fulfilled, we have a sense of satisfaction..that is bliss, when we fall in love with our dream partners, we feel quite light and feel like dreaming about them day and night, that is bliss and even when we taste a chocolate that is sweet when our tongues are dry with salty food..it makes us want to taste more of that chocolate...that is bliss....Bliss is a feeling..a description of happiness,delight,lightness,gratification satisfaction..in other words it is what we want to feel and what we want to be drowned in.

Being neutral is not really bliss...its more of being wise...we do not let any emotions attack us and we are knowledgeable of anything that happens...its more of a "knowing" state..bliss is more towards the bright side of emotions.

[Shakthiprabha.]

Ive read a theory on WHAT IS SATISFACTION AND WHY WE GET IT.

We have so many desires imprinted in us. When a particular desire is fulfilled, i believe the imprint is vanished, letting us feel the crux or the satchidananda's vision for a second. Its like some cloud is hiding the real nature, the minute the cloud dissapears..... the real nature is visible for SPLIT SECOND that we can call it real aaanandha.

Soon enough, another desire crops up and fills the place :)

[PVR]

Ive read a theory on WHAT IS SATISFACTION AND WHY WE GET IT.

We have so many desires imprinted in us. When a particular desire is fulfilled, i believe the imprint is vanished, letting us feel the crux or the satchidananda's vision for a second. Its like some cloud is hiding the real nature, the minute the cloud dissapears..... the real nature is visible for SPLIT SECOND that we can call it real aaanandha.

Soon enough, another desire crops up and fills the place :)

SAT CHID ANANDA - Existence(sat) in Wisdom(chid) and Bliss(ananda)
This is the real nature of a human being. Proof: We wish to exist forever(sat); we always crave for wisdom(chid) and we always yearn for bliss(ananda). A 'realized' person, it is said, constantly derives satisfaction by being immersed in his Bliss.
For others like us, we have to be free from desires to be able to reach this inner bliss. The fact that we can enjoy a deep blissful sleep only when our mind is free from likes/dislikes and other pair of opposites, proves this point.
A stage would come when the individual no longer feels satisfied by sensory objects but yearns for a deeper, lasting satisfaction - this is spiritual evolution. Nobody, it seems, can escape this process; it is either in this birth or in the next or next...

[Shakthiprabha.]

hmm......

When one is satisfied with all worldy pleasures
or one GETS BEYOND those pleasures
he or she craves for this bliss. true.

Again to fall in the cycle of maya.
ACtually its weirdly funny to think we go back to a state, only to get back into maya again ...... :roll:

[anbu_kathir]

Its perfectly natural, you see. It is only the cycle, the process that gives true Bliss. If one is always aware, then it wouldn't be interesting, would it?


hmm......

gain to fall in the cycle of maya.
ACtually its weirdly funny to think we go back to a state, only to get back into maya again ...... :roll:

[thamizhvaanan]

hmm......

When one is satisfied with all worldy pleasures
or one GETS BEYOND those pleasures
he or she craves for this bliss. true.

Again to fall in the cycle of maya.
ACtually its weirdly funny to think we go back to a state, only to get back into maya again ...... :roll:

I totally agree with u SP. That was wat i tried to mean.

Anbu if u say " it is the process that gives u the bliss", bliss seems to lead nowhere, rather it puts people into this loop.

[anbu_kathir]

There is no "craving" when one goes beyond. It is the desire that causes problems and disappointment. If one craves for Bliss, then he/she is getting it all wrong. It is "the" natural state of Being. As I said, Bliss is what we become. It is not an object of desire, not something that is obtained.

Love and Light



hmm......

When one is satisfied with all worldy pleasures
or one GETS BEYOND those pleasures
he or she craves for this bliss. true.

Again to fall in the cycle of maya.
ACtually its weirdly funny to think we go back to a state, only to get back into maya again ...... :roll:

I totally agree with u SP. That was wat i tried to mean.

Anbu if u say " it is the process that gives u the bliss", bliss seems to lead nowhere, rather it puts people into this loop.

[Shakthiprabha.]

Its perfectly natural, you see. It is only the cycle, the process that gives true Bliss. If one is always aware, then it wouldn't be interesting, would it?


hmm......

gain to fall in the cycle of maya.
ACtually its weirdly funny to think we go back to a state, only to get back into maya again ...... :roll:

Absolutely anbu!!!!!! :thumbsup:

Thats what I always keep thinking or praying to any phenomenon called god if its exists.

Its fun to be in maya, BUT, WITH AWARENESS. :)

Thats what avvai had tried to say.......

"piravaamai vEndum.......
piranthaal unnai maravaamai vendum"

So the fun is not in NOT BEING INTO MAYA...... but fun is in being in maya...... with awareness :)

Just my view :)