Reservation system

[Shakthiprabha.]

What is ur view on new reservation system.

Is it not getting on to nerves?
I would say entirely reservation based on caste is to be removed. wHAT EVER H APPENED TO merit and ppl who deserve get what they want.

If india is gonna show attitudes like these even in professional institutions, WHERE WOULD we eradicate caste system?

What exactly is happening in the name of caste eradication and in the name of IMPROVING india?

Very soon most merit scholars would find their way out of india.

[Aravind_06]

Certainly, Iam not in support of Reservation. But, following are my thoughts related to it.

I feel that children who are brought up submissively and in a suppressed manner, after grown up does not have the courage to face the life. They tend to be shy in the society, maintain a very low profile, does not show up their talents like that. This is applicable to both upper and lower caste community. Unfortunately, this is more prevalent with lower sect, thanks to our very old caste system. This is definitely going to change soon, as presently, all children are being brought up in a same manner.

If the children are brought up with courage, fearless attitude, I think Reservations are unnecessary. Instead, the government should take care of the weaker sections in other aspects like providing them the security, Money, Scholarships and encouragement etc.

In any educational system / class, there are going to be different rank holders and whatever we provide them, we cannot make a last rank holder to a first rank holder. Then, why reservations??
At the same time we should understand that the last rank holder also has a right to live and should be given a chance to prove his skills in other areas, for which the government should do something. The last rank holders should not be treated like losers in the society, as they are born like that & its not their mistake for their non-performance.

[Sandeep]

I am in support for reservation system that takes into consideration financial possition.

[rami]

Hi all.......

Are you aware of the latest proposal of HR Dept (Govt of
India).........they are planning to increase the quota of reserved
seats
by 27%......which will make the reserved seats to 49.x%........leaving
barely 50% seats to be filled on the basis of merit.

Are you ready to face the fact that - Our half of our nation will be
nurtured not on the basis of merit but some other considerations.

If you want to raise your voice against it, then please sign an online
petition here: http://www.petitiononline.com/No_Quota/petition.html

[Shakthiprabha.]

Sandeep,

U spoke my mind

that idea has been there............... for more than 10 years now :thumbsup:

Why no posts at all?

There were 4 votes in support of reservation.

WHY DONT U ALL COME OUT IN OPEN AND TELL, why we need reservation?

[P_R]

We are still far from being able to do without reservation.I support the reservation policy as well as the size of reservation. The caste basis is not without logic. Financial considerations can be additional. But, there needs to be a change in the modalities so that the proper target group is benefited.

For instance, if a candidate makes use of reserved seats to secure admission, thenceforth he and his descendents should be ineligible for reservation. This will help the right people garner the benefits of reservation.

[r_kk]

Reservation policies have not reached fully to the proper, really needy people in the last 59 years. This itself shows that there is something wrong with policies. First of all, good basic education itself remain unachievable fruit for most of the supressed and tribal people. Only the creamy layer of so-called suppressed people utilize the whole benift of reservation policies.
If our Governments can ensure the following, then reservation policy can be removed just after 10 years.
1. Same Education pattern throughout India.
2. All the schools in India shall be of same standards in quality of teachers and facilities.
3. Good quality of Boarding and adequate health care for all kids from poor families.

Reservation policy is just like a stick for a person with broken leg. Unfortunately the stick is used by even healthy people (reservation in post graduation, promotions etc ) for different purpose. We have to provide the stick to the really sufferring people till they walk on their own. Reservation policies for other segment (so called backwards and those who proud about their caste and those who practice untouchabilty) is really a waste and only divide the society and maintain the dangerous caste system.

[r_o_j_a]

firstly I am not indian citizen but other countries also practice "indirect" reservation.

for example currently in the UK .. due to new countries joining the so called EU, south asian doctors are put behind in the list to encourage european docs to enter the national health service... this is not equal oppurtunity in the uk!

coming back to the point , i feel that it is not fair to give oppurtunities based on merit/reservations..

[dsath]

The existing reservation system is plainly vote bank politics.
The caste system is a complex matrix and the government has to develop a reservation system that maps to this matrix.
We already have a system functioning well in our Parliament. The number of seats allocated to each state is based on its size, which is fair.
What we need is a system that takes into consideration the population dynamics of a state. This should be overlapped by other rules such as, suggested by Prabhu Ram and economics.
A strong phasing out of the reservation system based on an achievable calendar is a must.
All this should be backed up by a strong education system at the primary level, continuing right upwards.
Last but not least we need a strong visionary leader to implement this.
I think we Indians can only dream about such things with caste/religious politics ruling the day.

[aran]

[tscii:19879f5a2b]India had never seen a more sincere; passionate, indefatigable socially conscious person than, (perhaps with the exception of Buddha and Vivekananda) Dr Bhim Rao Ambedkar. His life was a total dedication to getting social and economic justice and equality to whom he called the depressed classes, the same whom Gandhiji called Harijans and whom the Constitution describes as Scheduled Castes (SCs) and Scheduled Tribes (STs). Dr B.R.Ambedkar held that education, self-help and self-respect were the prime instruments of their uplift with organs of state and laws facilitating the use of all these instruments. He even opined that since Sanskrit gave respectability and honor in the Hindu society, it should be learnt by the depressed classes and be made the official language. Neither of these propositions had a chance of acceptance as Jawaharlal Nehru was too fascinated with English and because of personal ambitions, he could not afford to oppose Hindi as the official language.

Dr B.R. Ambedkar, the intellectual light and hope of the depressed classes, wrote into the Constitution of India, reservations in government jobs, for Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes only for a period of 10 years i.e., until 1960. In his opinion, reservations could not be the food but only a medicine for overcoming the illness that Hindu society caused among sections of its own people. The deprivation to some other Hindus, occasioned by reservations for the less ‘meritorious’ is prayashchita (atonement) for the wrongs caused in the past. It is justified ethically, morally and rationally.

The 10-year-period has been getting repeatedly and easily extended in Parliament. Interestingly and intriguingly, those who have been privately opposed to this indefinite extension have resorted to advocacy of another cause— backwardness. Caste after caste among Hindus is asserting that it is backward, more backward, most backward and so utterly backward that its people should be included in the Scheduled Tribe category. In Andhra Pradesh the JS Putta Swamy Commission was surprised that out of 284 castes in the State, 282 including Brahmins represented that they should be classified as backward. (The Brahmins said that all the talented and forward among them had gone to America; only the backwards among them are left in India and so their demand for classification of Brahmins as backward is valid!) The Kaka Kalekar Commission (on backwards) identified over 3500 castes among Hindus in the 1950s; by the time of Mandal Commission in the 1970s, these castes increased to over 4500! That is, protagonists of reservations for backwards accentuated the difference in the professions to claim, separate caste to that profession to get it classified as more, most and utterly backward. There is, as it were, a race among our people to claim the prize for utter backwardness in the hope of getting separate reservation for the winner. The struggle for classification (Maala, Maadiga) of the SCs in Andhra Pradesh illustrates this race for backwardness. Not on the basis of caste, but on the basis of religion, Muslims are demanding to be classed as backward (Muslims who ruled India for seven centuries and in Telangana till 1948)! Now Christians are agitating to be included in the Scheduled Caste category! It appears that those who can’t get included in the backward, SC and ST category will have to quit India, and go to foreign shores.

With liberalisation and globalisation of not only markets for goods but for services and eventually even labour, employment in government is stagnant or shrinking; state-owned enterprises will dwindle or be decimated due to competition. Reservations for government jobs will therefore benefit the backwards, SCs and STs to a declining degree. Hence they are demanding that reservations be extended to private sector enterprises also. Private sector will include Indian-owned and foreign-owned companies and both will be subjected to global competition. How could private sector companies, their share-holders, people of Indian and foreign origin, accept less meritorious candidates and yet compete with global companies? What obligation do Microsoft, Ford, Lucky Gold Star have towards India to accept reservations for employment? They don’t have any. All private sector companies can, however, be expected to be good corporate citizens and hence contribute to the building up of capacity, talent and competitiveness among all citizens trying sincerely to acquire them. And the creator of all these attributes is education.

Not on the basis of caste, but on the basis of religion, Muslims are demanding to be classed as backward (Muslims who ruled India for seven centuries and in Telangana till 1948)! Now Christians are agitating to be included in the Scheduled Caste category!

But it is eduction that all the parties, leaders and governments have been neglecting for all the years since Independence in 1947. China, Malaysia, Indonesia, Korea, Thailand, Sri Lanka and Taiwan—all the countries that gained freedom after India have higher literacy rate; Korea has higher university enrollment (per 1000 young in the age-group of 17 to 22 years); China is outstripping India. University education, especially in professions like engineering, management, medicine, helps us to create knowledge, technologies and businesses which in turn give this country a competitive edge and create employment for the educated and the skilled.

Our governments are frighteningly indebted; their budgets are deficit-ridden; they are not able to meet their ruling parties’ commitments to the voting multitudes—free electricity, inexpensive cooking gas, houses, house-sites, revised higher pay to government employees, sewing machines and kit for minorities, bicycles for girl students, Urdu ghars, more welfare hostels, subsidised fertilizers, healthcare, etc. If non-governmental agencies can establish and manage hospitals, libraries, creches, hostels, tutorial colleges, madrasas, seminaries, etc, why cann't they run professional colleges? And if there are no reservations for admissions and appointments to the former, why so in professional colleges?

When the issue of social justice is raised, it is both emotional and rational. The question is who should pay for professional education? Obviously, the beneficiaries have to pay. If the society has to pay by way of taxes, then the beneficiaries must be bound to benefit the society; return to society what it financed by way of service or pay back from their earnings. If those who seek cannot pay for their education, government may create a Professional Education Loan Fund from which low-interest (or nil interest) and long-tenure loans may be given on the condition that whosoever employs or gives loan to such a beneficiary will be liable to ensure the recovery of the loan. Another method can be like the Universal Service Fund to extend telecoms to rural subscribers. All telephone companies are contributing five per cent of the money collected from their subscribers into this fund. The educated employees pay professional tax. The professional tax every employee pays may be put in the Professional Education Loans Fund. Companies may be encouraged to contribute to this Fund by making such contributions tax-exempt.

All seats in government funded professional colleges and universities may be 100 percent reserved for Scheduled Castes, Scheduled Tribes and backward castes (Muslims and Christians also if they are to be specially cared for their votes and their global affiliates). Every caste among Hindus may also be declared a minority (In fact Muslims outnumber Hindus of every caste; very soon Christians will also out number every Hindu caste, while Hindus don’t en block, almost all Muslims and now-a-days, Christians also vote en block (under fatwa or mullah, maulana, hafiz, imam’s guidance and the Church respectively) and most among the Hindu castes may be declared backward, (as self-apprised) and allowed the privilege under Articles 29 and 30 of the Constitution to found and manage educational institutions of their choice. Today minorities that are Muslims and Christians are starting professional colleges without limit. With seat capacities in excess of the candidates qualifying for entrance and even unrelated to the literacy among them and their proportion to the total population, they are selling the excess seats to Hindus, making the latter pay for the prosperity of the minorities and for the propagation of their religion. This is unjust and a terrible infliction on Hindus; a kind of jazia.

Education is recognised as a tradable service under the WTO agreements. Foreign universities would be setting up colleges in our country. Would we require them to give reservations in the colleges they establish? And would that be upheld by the WTO bodies.

Those who have been privately opposed to this indefinite extension have resorted to advocacy of another cause—backwardness. Caste after caste among Hindus is asserting that it is backward, more backward, most backward and so utterly backward that its people should be included in the Scheduled Tribe category.

The doing away of separate electorates for Muslims (the most powerful cause for creation of Pakistan and communalisation of Muslims) and the directive principle of common civil code for all citizens in our Constitution were to bind our people into one nation but reservations based upon religion and caste (except in the case of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes) are divisive and disintegrative in the long run. Even for Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes, a scheme should be devised so that the benefit of reservation s is inherited by generation after generation creating a new caste of government Brahmins; the grand-children and their next generations of children of parents who once benefited by reservations must be taken off the list, so that the vast majority of Scheduled Castes, Scheduled Tribes and backward castes who have not yet benefited from reservations (due to lack of education) get a chance to move up the economic and cultural scale.

Finally, the morality or double standards of the politicians are quite evident. How many of these leaders are sending their children to government schools or to mother tongue medium schools? How many persons belonging to the Scheduled Castes, Scheduled Tribes and backward castes are made president of parties, members of their executives and polituro and chief ministers?
[/tscii:19879f5a2b]

[phil]

What is ur view on new reservation system.

Is it not getting on to nerves?
I would say entirely reservation based on caste is to be removed. wHAT EVER H APPENED TO merit and ppl who deserve get what they want.

If india is gonna show attitudes like these even in professional institutions, WHERE WOULD we eradicate caste system?

What exactly is happening in the name of caste eradication and in the name of IMPROVING india?

Very soon most merit scholars would find their way out of india.

Reservation based on caste can be removed. But people in villages were literacy rate is very low and also suffer due to caste distinction can be given some previleges in the form of reservation. I am talking about villages where there are no schools, no hospitals, and almost no people are educated.

[crazy]

iam totally against it! we hope to get rid of caste system and then we encourage reservation................no way. those who deserve it, should get it, no matter caste and religion!

[Roshan]

iam totally against it! we hope to get rid of caste system and then we encourage reservation................no way. those who deserve it, should get it, no matter caste and religion!

I am not an Indian but from what I have gathered so far through some reading and discussions with the Indians I have met ( my work is related to working with Indians mostly) - I would say - for hundreds of years those who deserve had not got their rights because they were deprived of getting it in the name of caste. This eventuallyl resulted in Reservation System. First try to eliminate caste and then think of eliminating the reservation system.

I suggest - better start a poll questioning whether India should have caste system or not.

[crazy]

I suggest - better start a poll questioning whether India should have caste system or not.

iam not indian either, but when i took my matric.exam there, they asked me for caste certificate, i refused and my head master said as u wish! i he even called me arrogant, but the truth was i dont want to get a reservation b'coz of my caste and i didnt want to promote caste system via reservation policies and i knew that iam not going to continue my studies in inida!
i know that reservation system helps a bit, but when it comes to whole iam totally against it!

and ROSHAN caste system is already illegal in india, govt cant help in such things, every individual has to think! has to act! has to help/contribute banning caste system!

[Roshan]

and ROSHAN caste system is already illegal in india, govt cant help in such things, every individual has to think! has to act! has to help/contribute banning caste system!

I am not aware that caste system is illegal in India - and I would like if you or any one else can prove it with some reference. If caste system is illegal then how come there is caste based parties and politics happening? :roll:

And as regards individuals' thinking - that's what I precisely say - the thinking of each individual should change first. Until it changes there is no point discussing about having a reservation system or not. At this moment if reservation system is eliminated I feel India will get some 500 years back - as we would definitely see a repetition of the history.

I really miss people like geno, suresh and Madurai Veeran who can talk extensively on this issue.

[Surya]

First try to eliminate caste and then think of eliminating the reservation system.

Jeez! Talk about Contradiction!
Yes! Eliminate the Caste System in India by giving College Seats and Jobs based on Caste...:clap: Excellent Idea! :clap: :roll:

Here is another Great Idea Roshan, why don't we end unemployment by rejecting all investments that Foreign Companies have made in India?? :lol2:

[Roshan]

Jeez! Talk about Contradiction!
Yes! Eliminate the Caste System in India by giving College Seats and Jobs based on Caste...:clap: Excellent Idea! :clap: :roll:

Here is another Great Idea Roshan, why don't we end unemployment by rejecting all investments that Foreign Companies have made in India?? :lol2:

Hi Surya !!! How are you doing???

Just want to let you know that as a "Principle" - I dont want to discuss such matters with you. No offense meant any way :wink:

[jaiganes]

I voted "YES" .
Here goes my reason.
1. Like any good scheme, this one was implemented in the wrong way and in the wrong spirit.
2. There must be pre and post conditions to reservation.
eg., only one person in the family must be extended the preivilege of reservation. Once that person has enjoyed the benefits, he must pass on the benefits to his family (dependants).
3. Reservation only for education and education as someone else remarked earlier must be uniform , high standard and uplifting. Education must not make students book worms and paper tigers. There must be a "value system" proposition also in education.
4. People doing traditional occupation must be ecouraged to pass on the knowledge to as many people and Government must subsidise this knowledge sharing as there is a high risk of these skills vanishing because of availability of high wage earning modern education to everyone.

[Lambretta]

Education must not make students book worms and paper tigers. There must be a "value system" proposition also in education.
Yea this is an UTMOST necessity (altho the edu. institutions continue to overlook it! :() in education for everyone, not jus the reserved classes.....
& :thumbsup: to ur other points too JG! :D

[Surya]

Jeez! Talk about Contradiction!
Yes! Eliminate the Caste System in India by giving College Seats and Jobs based on Caste...:clap: Excellent Idea! :clap: :roll:

Here is another Great Idea Roshan, why don't we end unemployment by rejecting all investments that Foreign Companies have made in India?? :lol2:

Hi Surya !!! How are you doing???

Just want to let you know that as a "Principle" - I dont want to discuss such matters with you. No offense meant any way :wink:

None taken. Although I am a vivid reader of ur posts, I'd like to see some strong points of yours which actually MAKE SENSE in the PRACTICAL WORLD (for once) on this issue. :wink:


3. Reservation only for education and education as someone else remarked earlier must be uniform , high standard and uplifting. Education must not make students book worms and paper tigers. There must be a "value system" proposition also in education.
4. People doing traditional occupation must be ecouraged to pass on the knowledge to as many people and Government must subsidise this knowledge sharing as there is a high risk of these skills vanishing because of availability of high wage earning modern education to everyone.

:D :clap: Good points! :D Espicially number 4! :D

[rajraj]

4. People doing traditional occupation must be ecouraged to pass on the knowledge to as many people and Government must subsidise this knowledge sharing as there is a high risk of these skills vanishing because of availability of high wage earning modern education to everyone.

jaiganes: That was introduced in 1954 in Madras state by Rajaji and met with very strong opposition and statewide agitation. Rajaji had to resign because of that. The scheme was for the children to attend school half a day and practice/learn the trades of their parents for half a day.

[bingleguy]

[tscii:19f431290e]Happenned to get this mail ;-) On the lighter side !

ET has opened a debate on “Is it right to go against job quotas ?"

As expected most of the posts agree
here is someone who put his pt in a v diff way.. :))

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think we should have job reservations in all the fields. I completely support the PM and all the politicians for promoting this. Let's start the reservation with our cricket team. We should have 10 percent reservation for muslims. 30 percent for OBC, SC/ST like that. Cricket rules should be modified accordingly. The boundary circle should be reduced for an SC/ST player. The four hit by an OBC player should be considered as a six and a six hit by a OBC player should be counted as 8 runs. An OBC player scoring 60 runs should be declared as a century.

We should influence ICC and make rules so that the pace bowlers like Shoaib Akhtar should not bowl fast balls to our OBC player. Bowlers should bowl maximum speed of 80 kilometer per hour to an OBC player. Any delivery above this speed should be made illegal.

Also we should have reservation in Olympics. In the 100 meters race, an OBC player should be given a gold medal if he runs 80 meters.

There can be reservation in Government jobs also. Let's recruit SC/ST and OBC pilots for aircrafts which are carrying the ministers and
politicians (that can really help the country.. )

Ensure that only SC/ST and OBC doctors do the operations for the ministers and other politicians. (Another way of saving the country..)

Let's be creative and think of ways and means to guide INDIA forward...
Let's show the world that INDIA is a GREAT country. Let's be proud of being an INDIAN..

[/tscii:19f431290e]

[Surya]

Well, although he is a bit blunt and harsh in his views Bingle...it's quite humourous. :lol2:

The Main Point Being....Reservation has been offered for 50 years, now it's time to give EQUAL OPPURTUNITIES to everyone, based on Merit.

My Opinion is that however, that Reservations should exist, but should be used as a tool to help the ECONOMICALLY lower portions of Indian Society, regardless of their caste, rather than just bringing another form of the Caste System into Modern India, :) and even worse, claiming that India is liberated from the Caste System while doing it. :lol:

[P_R]

Nice one BG. But unfortunately I have met a lot of people who sincerely believe it to be true missing the point about reservations completely :-(

[jaiganes]

4. People doing traditional occupation must be ecouraged to pass on the knowledge to as many people and Government must subsidise this knowledge sharing as there is a high risk of these skills vanishing because of availability of high wage earning modern education to everyone.

jaiganes: That was introduced in 1954 in Madras state by Rajaji and met with very strong opposition and statewide agitation. Rajaji had to resign because of that. The scheme was for the children to attend school half a day and practice/learn the trades of their parents for half a day.

That was the infamous "Kulak kalvi thittam". That failed because even if one wants to be a collector, he has to learn pot making if his father is a potter. What I am telling is that the potter, if he finds that there is nobody after him doing a traditional art or craft, shall be helped by the government to pass on the craft to someone else who is interested, not compulsorily to his son or daughter. I guess there is a subtle difference.

[pavalamani pragasam]

"paanai seyya padiththu paisaavai eNNappOkiRaayaa, computer kalvi padiththu paNaththil puraLap pOkiRaayaa?" enRu kEttaal enna bathil varum?
Subtlety?Huh!

[jaiganes]

PP madam!
The earlier Kulak kalvi thittam encouraged the Son/daughter to learn what his/her parents did, however what I am saying is the motive behind that was genuine, so keep it, just remove the forced learning angle

[Chappani]

I'am for reservation based on Caste system, legitemate people who were supressed all these years should be given reservation. 50 years of caste reservation would not be a measure to remove reservation, take a census and find how many people are still backward educationally in this communitity and extend the reservation for them.

many people would second me when I tell reservation in education, but reservation in jobs many people will not accept it to me. There was this discussion in Karnataka, and one person asked Narayan Murthy Infosys chief, knowing the socio, political setup of our country and if you are not for reservation in your company for the socially deprived group, then what is the difference between you owing a company here/ Bill gates owning a company here. Which means to tell that apart from money making we also have some moral responsibility towards the society we live in, eradicating the social illness we have been facing and bring all the people on par.

I think for people who are not for reservation, for whom quality is the only thing, then why did we drove out English from India??? why can't we have England Parties as the political parties competing paralley with out Indian parties. I think the English party(s) will perfom well if people think Quality is what we need in governance. India had better governance under British than what we have today.

The rights which we got from British need to be passed on to the people who are socially and politically deprived for it is their right that we got from the British.

[sreeramtcs]

According to me India is going no where with Reservation. It will result in bright minds of India leaving India. Consider my case as an example, I am from a state where there is only 1 government Engineering college. To find a seat in that college i should be ranked among top 100s of my state. But consider the case of a person who has got this seat based on reservation with ranking much over 1000. That guy wont know the value of this college. Also if there had been no reservation i would have got the seat with just ranking among top 400s. But because of this government policies i had to work very hard to find a seat. I dont want the same to happen to my son. I dont want him to struggle the same way as i did. I would like to get out of this country and dont want my son to be the citizen of this country.
Then we discussing about reservation wont do any good for our contry. If reservations have to be removed then people like Chappani, who cast their votes based on caste and parties encouraging reservations have to stop. They have to understand that they cannot keep enjoying this stupid government policies not worrying about the poor people of their own caste who have been prevented from using this reservation system because of wellsettled people of the samecaste still not ready to give up.
I would like to point out one thing have there been any case where a person from a SC /ST caste who has got a collector job (or any equivalent job) just because of his birth has ever said that he no longer needs reservation and would allow his sons and daughters to compete in merit basis. No this has never happened because that is the mentality of the Indians all are selfish they wont even worry about the poor people from the same caste.

[Chappani]

sreeramtcs,

you are mistaken, I personally don't enjoy the case reservation.
I air my views as an independent observer.

[dsath]

But consider the case of a person who has got this seat based on reservation with ranking much over 1000. That guy wont know the value of this college.

How many of us realize that the person ranked 1000, has come all this way after 1000s of years.
Before 1000 yrs he was not even considered human enough to read books, let alone take exams. If we fail to appreciate those efforts and reward, then we will have a society where a small percentage is highly educated and the huge under developed percentage serves that small group.

Also we can't carry on this forever. A cut of point has to be set and we have to stop the reservation system when the target is achieved. The problem here is no one knows what the target is, even if by chance someone identifies the target then, working towards the target effectively is even harder..................

[dsath]

sreeramtcs ,
I am interested in knowing which state has only one govt engg college. I am disheartened to know that even after all this development and top notch companies head hunting our bright students, we have such a plight. :(

[sreeramtcs]

[tscii:ef64605caf]Ya I accept that these people have been kept down for years. But reservation is not the solution. Especially in professional education. Many people like me have joining in professional colleges as their life aim but how can they just be prevented because their great grand fathers ill-treated people from other caste. Why should v suffer because of their mistake.
Dsath I like the way you mentioned about target. The target can be found by making a survey of people who have been actually benefited from reservation for the first time. What we will find at the end of survey is only people who are already gained a lot out of reservation keep gaining more. Those are people who can afford high quality education and high class life style yet keep enjoying reservation. I will explain this with an example, my friend is SC by birth, his dad is customs officer a post which he got by reservation and now his dad earns in all ways. This friend of mine is never short of money, studied in a good school and finally was never denied anything in life because of his SC birth, still he couldn’t rank well in the state exam but found a seat in engineering college mainly because of his birth as SC. Now his son will also enjoy this comfort again. Does this what we want by reservation?
Coming to what Narayan Murthy of Infosys said about reservation, he can opt for reservation in his company if at he has ever denied a place for a person in his company just because he was a SC or ST by birth.
When we talk about reservation we only talk about people of SC or ST caste getting job or professional education quite easily. But there are bit more that government offers in the name of reservation. The year duration for an SC or ST to get promoted from one post to other is very less for an SC or ST. I will explain this with an example. My mom and another women (SC birth) joined government as a lower division clerk. Now my mom had only 3 promotions in her overall career of about 30 years. But the other women had about 10 promotions. The duration between each promotion for my mom is 10 years while for the other is 3 years. What a difference. Also there is no need for any qualification exam for SC/ST people to get promoted. Can anyone here explain the need for such relaxation in promotions?
[/tscii:ef64605caf]

[Roshan]

That was the infamous "Kulak kalvi thittam". That failed because even if one wants to be a collector, he has to learn pot making if his father is a potter. What I am telling is that the potter, if he finds that there is nobody after him doing a traditional art or craft, shall be helped by the government to pass on the craft to someone else who is interested, not compulsorily to his son or daughter. I guess there is a subtle difference.

JG, I understand your point and I am for it. Any way - what you have suggested has a clear and not a subtle difference from Rajaji's most infamous "kulakalvi thittam" - which I feel was initiated with the motive of suppressing the margninalised for ever.

BTW, How are you doing?

[jaiganes]

hi Roshan! I am doing fine. I am expecting the day when my wife will give birth to our child.

Points made by Sreeramtcs are pretty hard as well. I can understand the genuine anger and frustration. Reservation in quality education in quality educational institution is a must in pre university period. i.e., if anyone has observed the status of govt owned schools run by poor quality teachers, I can say for sure that less than 5% of the out put of those schools will be of good quality. With a poor setup like that , if the government tries to push people into IIT, IIM and in competitive companies like Infy and IBM, get it from me, the result will be a disaster. The government instead of upgrading the educational quality at the lower level (where an individual's potential is shaped, where the societal bias is destroyed and where the talents are shaped), is trying to push the buck to private companies and IITs, and IIMs. This is wrong.
first -strengthen the quality of education - infrastructure wise and delivery wise(quality of teaching staff, their motivation levels by giving a good salary).
second - make sure that this education is available even in the remote corner of this vast country at the same quality.
third - Admit more downtrodden children into schools and punish anyone obstructing a child's education .
fourth - Provide scholarships for students from downtrodden society to improve their weak areas.
fifth - Change the grading system to one that is encouraging but not highly pressurizing at the lower levels and keep stiffer grading later to raise the bar - this is to reduce school drop outs.
sixth - After highschool - a talent exam to ascertain the good and weak areas of the student
seventh - Based on the talent map of each student - award subsidized education opportunities .
eighth - Take your hands off from the individual now as he/she is self confident and needs to body to support him/her.

seventh and eighth points are an inspiration from Issac Asimov's short stories.

[Roshan]

hi Roshan! I am doing fine. I am expecting the day when my wife will give birth to our child.

.

Wow!!! That's something great to hear. All the best to you and your wife :)

[rajraj]

, if the government tries to push people into IIT, IIM and in competitive companies like Infy and IBM, get it from me, the result will be a disaster.


jaiganes: You got it wrong about IBM. IBM was a pioneer in Equal Opportunity/Affirmative Action programs initiating them in the early fifties when the south in the US had segregation policy. Here is a link for you. Read the section on employment data. It was no disaster for IBM.

http://www-306.ibm.com/employment/us/diverse/50/tc.shtml

Read the section on employment data to see how far the minorities have progressed in IBM. In fact, any manager violating the policy would severely punished with removal from management and even summary dismissal.
I wonder why those hubbers who live in the US don't say anything about what corporations here do ! :)

[jaiganes]

rajraj!
i work in IBM. I meant it in the Indian context. It is not as simple as in USA where you had only one oppressed section of people.

[sreeramtcs]

Jaiganes, i accept ur point, education in rural sectors have to be improved. And it can be done only by providing very high motivation.
My own sister was recruited in government as a teacher for class 6 to 10th. There is a rule in government every new joinee should do at least 3 years of rural service. So everyone who got job along with my sister have been posted to villages as their first appointment. But now very few of them still work in their allocated villages. Most of them used recommendations to get transfer within few months. But my sister accepted the offer and she still works in the same village even after 3 years of completion. She has worked hard and has succeeded in getting 100% result every year. According to her the most of the students are very intelligent and can even repeat the same sentence that my sister said in the class when asked questions. But what they lack is basics of English grammar. The teachers who have thought them at primary level have never made these bright minds to learn the basics. So what ever knowledge these students have is wasted because of lack of English knowledge.
Now what has government done to encourage teachers in rural sectors. They have put a rule but never followed it. Also there is an award for best teacher every year and it is given based on seniority and not based on your achievements or taking your rural service into account.
So this is the status of rural schools in Tamil Nadu. What more do u think government can do now? They can make rules to encourage but the execution is always a problem.
But government schools in cities are the best. I have done all my schooling in government schools and never faced any problem.

[rajraj]

rajraj!
i work in IBM. I meant it in the Indian context. It is not as simple as in USA where you had only one oppressed section of people.

I think you missed the point! If the private corporations in India tried they can always find well qualified candidates from any section of the society. Are they trying hard? Will they try? Will it take government intervention? That was what it took in the US.

Minorities in US include blacks, hispanics,native Americans,Asians and women.

You work for IBM. May be, in the next all employees meeting you can raise this issue and see what happens! :) Who knows? IBM might take the lead as it did in the US.

[P_R]

I am missing something here. The point about "merit". Though the point is not without merit I think it is blown out of proportion.

Yesterday on Times Now, I saw Delhi Univ medical students agitating. One of the students interviews was genuinely angry about the reservation. She said "would you place your life in the hands of an incompetent person". This is an argument that is widely made and wholeheartedly subscribed to by many. And IMO the argument is flawed.

Entrance test based admissions is more a rejection procedure than a sensitive evaluation of merit. There are not enough seats for all applicants so we have the entrance exam scores to be the determinants. As competition intensifies the cut-offs cut-offs become extremely sharp and people get rejected upto two decimal points !! It is ridiculous to suppose the selected person is better (or to use the expression of the season: more competent) than the the rejected one.

Anyone who has looked at how close the cutoffs for the various categories are getting will say that the candidates who are finally selected are not "incompetent" by any stretch of imagination.

There are other problems with reservation as the target group is largely missed and people who ought to be able to compete in the open garner the benefits (this is once again proven by how close the cut-offs for the various categories are). But I don't think competency is as big an issue as it is being made out to be.

[rajraj]

Yesterday on Times Now, I saw Delhi Univ medical students agitating. One of the students interviews was genuinely angry about the reservation. She said "would you place your life in the hands of an incompetent person". This is an argument that is widely made and wholeheartedly subscribed to by many. And IMO the argument is flawed.


You are right! That was what some American whites said about Indian doctors (in the 1960s). I remember meeting some Americans who swore that they would never go to an Indian doctor. They didn't think the Indians were competent.
See how things have changed now about 40 years later.

[jaiganes]

rajraj wrote:

They didn't think the Indians were competent.
See how things have changed now about 40 years later.
I think you are getting confused between two diff. points here.
Indian doctors , then and now are products of a superior medical training and house surgeon program which the americans were not aware of. So it was ignorance on their part. In effect, they were discriminating against someone who was meritorious, yet sidelined due to race or origin. Now the case that these students are making is, how abt a person who passed out with lesser grades and with questionable merit treating you as a doctor. I thinkk that is a question born out of common sense. Now Affirmative policies in IBm or any other company started first as "No- prejudice" movements. We in India, atleast in higher educational institutions and professional orgs have no prejudice with our colleague because that person is a woman or if that person belongs to XXX caste. Our views and judgements are purely based on performance. So instead of harping on reservations/quotas in pvt sector, the focus should be on providing high quality - subsidised(or free) education for students from downtrodden/oppressed sections. That increases confidence and performance in an individual by the time he/she is knocking the doors of IIT/IIM/Infosys/IBM or for that matter even government jobs. He/She will have his/her collar up as the position/job was secured purely on merit. This is what the result should be. Not the other way around, where a person comes to the yard, signs in attendance, has nothing to go so pack to home, participate in some elections and develop caste base to handle opposition from others who are struggling to perform and progress in their career.
Now tell me, has the government really accomplished its objectives of uplifting the downtrodden by way of blindly implementing reservation in Bachelor's degree and government jobs? Now even USA is debating on whether the kind of affirmative action program is succesful or not. So having a tight shut policy of reservation for 2000 years is not going to help anybody. I repeat ! I am in favour of reservation system that boosts confidence of the person enjoying its benefits.

[jaiganes]

This is what Barkha Dutt of NDTV has to say on reservation system http://www.ndtv.com/columns/showcolumns.asp?id=1034

[rajasaranam]

My Take on this Issue
http://rajasaranam.blogspot.com/2006/04/blog-post_28.html

[narayanan]

Pretty late to post my views I guess. Anyways better late than never..

I voted Yes: but not 50%, reason being there are still people who are genuinely downtrodden even as late as the Class of 2006 and have found all the reservation benifits useful. So it should be there, but are there really 50-69% of your graduating class really underpriveleged ?

I mean after admission, irrespective of our caste origin we all get the same education. only difference we have is the fee we pay. Qualifying for the govt's reservation quota is'nt exactly propotional to unable to afford the education path you choose.

Morover if one of the parent has enjoyed the benifit, arent they well of enough to give their next generation a good education ?

If you are qualified (read JEE) enough for the IIT education level of challenges then you're in otherwise you're out. And would it really make a difference if I did'nt make to the IITs or IIMs ? I did'nt study in an IIT/IIM does that mean I am unfit for survival ? Whether I study in an IIT or any engineering college am still considered an engineering graduate. I would have enough tools with me to get a job and manage a family. Well the point here is, with each state having its own reservation system, why touch the IITs IIMs and finally now the private sector jobs too ?

Am not completely for/against the reservation system:
*the rigid percentage
*there is no conditions imposed on the qualification for reservation system other than their community origin.

[rajasaranam]

Almost 60 years of freedom and still people are being humiliated, burnt alive, killed and oppressed in the name of caste :(
Even while reserved, elections cant be conducted in paapapatti, naatarmangalam and keeripatti think of the state if the constituency was unreserved...
An elected panchayat leader had his head severed off because he was from a dalit community....
A person who asked about his rights was made to eat human excreta because he was from a dalit community...
A girl was made blind by hitting with a stick by the teacher because she drank water from the pot meant for uppercastes...
17 people were killed by the barbaric police in Thamirabarani since they were dalits and asked for rightful wages...
46 Dalit people including women and children were burnt alive in KeezhVenmani by the local landlord since they asked for 'Oru padi' Rice more as their wage...
there are still 5000+ villages in Thamizhnaadu where 'Dual Glass' system is prevelant in Teashops....
All these and many more atrocities which have not come to limelight are being commited against human beings in TN where Periyaar Lived.

Reservation system is not a foolproof system to eradicate these evils but it does provides some social upliftment to these downtrodden people. If the people standing against reservation provide some more viable and better solution to the eradication of caste you are welcome. but hey stop being too nice and say 'naan jaathi paakrathu illa' so reservation system 'irukka koodathu'.
From the birth till death in every aspect of life people carry their castes on their shoulders... for Uppercastes its pride and for the lower castes its shame and a burden.

Ambedkar or periyaar the propenents of reservation system were very clear that these reservation system could only fulfil partial upliftment of the status of the people. Only through intercaste marriages the whole system could be abolished.

Well now i say lets reserve all 100% seats and jobs for the people who have done intercaste marriage and to their kins. This system will come to an end within 2 generations. How many of you can do it?? even the well learned and fairly forward in thinking fellow hubber was not able to go against his parents wishes how will the normal people go for it??? it has to be implemented with Iron hands like in a totalitarian state.

Uptil then the current Reservation system is the only gleam of hope

[rami]

Got a forward on reservation :

################################################## ###########
I think we should have job reservations in all the fields. I completely support the PM and all the politicians for promoting this. Let's start the reservation with our cricket team. We should have 10 percent reservation for muslims. 30 percent for OBC, SC/ST like that. Cricket rules should be modified accordingly. The boundary circle should be reduced for an SC/ST player. The four hit by an OBC player should be considered as a six and a six hit by a OBC player should be counted as 8 runs. An OBC player scoring 60 runs should be declared as a century.

We should influence ICC and make rules so that the pace bowlers like Shoaib Akhtar should not bowl fast balls to our OBC player. Bowlers should bowl maximum speed of 80 kilometer per hour to an OBC player. Any delivery above this speed should be made illegal.

Also we should have reservation in Olympics. In the 100 meters race, an OBC player should be given a gold medal if he runs 80 meters.

There can be reservation in Government jobs also. Let's recruit SC/ST and OBC pilots for aircrafts which are carrying the ministers and
politicians (that can really help the country.. )

Ensure that only SC/ST and OBC doctors do the operations for the ministers and other politicians. (Another way of saving the country..)

Let's be creative and think of ways and means to guide INDIA forward...
Let's show the world that INDIA is a GREAT country. Let's be proud of being an INDIAN..

May the good breed of politicans like ARJUN SINGH long live..

################################################## ###########

[Lambretta]

Ensure that only SC/ST and OBC doctors do the operations for the ministers and other politicians. (Another way of saving the country..)
:lol: :clap:
This one esp. is good! :thumbsup: :D

Lets hope it happens!

[Shakthiprabha.]

rami,

WOW POST :clap:

REcent issue of outlook talks bout ppl who benefitted from reservation policy. anyone read it?

[Shakthiprabha.]

rajasaranam,

DOWN TRODDEN ppl whom u mentioned are CLEARLY BELOW POV LINE.

This is what is my view too. SUCH PPL SHOULD BE ENCOURAGED.

When reservation is BASED ON ECNOMIC STATUS.....THEN they would be covered automatically.

There are OTHERS IN FORWARD CASTES OR OTHER CASTES TOO, who are going thro poverty.

Castes should be BANNED.

If govt keeps encouraging this, based on demarking some castes in favour than other, then MORE CALAMITIES, VIOLENCE, BLOOD SHED are sure to happen.

CASTE IS STILL PREVELANT IN OUR COUNTRY beucase govt encourage it

BLOODSHED HAPPEN IN OUR COUNTRY BASED ON CASTE CAUSE politicians and govt encourage it

HOOLIGANISM AND RIOTS HAPPEN IN THE NAME OF CASTE CAUSE govt encourage it

POLITICIANS TAKE THIS AS AN ADV TO GATHER MINORITY VOTES AND DO NOTHING EITHER FOR THEM OR FOR THERS....... all because there is caste and govt encourage it.

INTERCASTE MARRIAGE SHOULD BE WELCOMED. DEFINITELY YES. For that LETS FIRST ERADICATE CASTE.

[dsath]

Got a forward on reservation :



Its humorous and sarcastic, but sadly misses out the whole point of reservation............ :(

[rami]

IMHO, Govt should not reserve seats in Medical college, Engineering etc. But such people can be helped in other ways. Let Govt give monetary concesssions in fee etc. The Govt should provide quality education till +2 So that by the time they get out of school, thosse students should be able to comepetite with the rest in merit..

But reservation , having different cut-offs for different categories is all rubbish :twisted:

[Shakthiprabha.]

rami, u talk abs sense.

[narayanan]

One idea I could think, is the schools should be categorized, based on the standard of education (results, pass percentage etc).

A minimum cutoff should be set for each category to qualify for admission.

My point here is, if a student has been able to get a good education at the school level, why should he/she qualify for community based benifits ?

Would'nt that be a better way of doing that rather than discriminating based on caste ?

[Chappani]

Dear Shakti,

I differ from you... I cannot accept your words

CASTE IS STILL PREVELANT IN OUR COUNTRY beucase govt encourage it

I would say it is prevelant because of the mindset of the so-called upper caste people.
Tell me how do the uppercaste people react to BC/OBC person who are qualified and in good positions, they readily accepy them and easily accomodate them. But a BC/OBC person with humble livelyhood, we just ignore them.

The only way I feel to eradicate the caste system is to bring up the socially isolated people give concessions and bring them up.

I think your opinion is biased when you tell concessions based on economics. We cannot compare two poor candidates one uppercaste son of a teacher and the other son of a BC/OBC involved in very humble work. The uppercaste boy though poor has some basic knowledge and guidance for him to improve in life which is not there for the other person.

Reservation exists even in a family. I have seen a family where there were two daughters. One daughter was very smart while the other was normal/ below normal. You should see the parents took very extra care of the challenged child just to see her on par with the other one. I think this outlook of the parents is correct and needs to be appretiated. They were least conserned about the family reputation and that what other's would tell about them all they were interested is to see their children on Par. If the government is following the footsteps of the wise parents it needs to be appretiated.

[Badri]

IMHO, Govt should not reserve seats in Medical college, Engineering etc. But such people can be helped in other ways. Let Govt give monetary concesssions in fee etc. The Govt should provide quality education till +2 So that by the time they get out of school, thosse students should be able to comepetite with the rest in merit..

But reservation , having different cut-offs for different categories is all rubbish :twisted:

I fully agree with that point. Really, objectively, what does lower cut-off marks mean? Did the person in question get those low marks only because of lack of opportunity or was it due to lack of competence? How would you distinguish between the two? If it is lack of competence, then I shudder to think of that person becoming a doctor, or an engineer.

I mean, which of us here would honestly trust ourselves to a doctor who became a doctor not by merit but simply through reservation? You may be the most ardent supporter of upliftment of the so-called lower castes, and strive for equality, but would you take your daughter or son to a person who became a doctor thro' reservation?

I know full well that for centuries certain communities have been oppressed, while others lived off their blood and sweat. But the so-called upper castes don't have it easy anymore! It is a competitive world out there, and being an "upper caste" doesn't automatically ensure anything at all. In that sense, equality has already been achieved.

Then why further reservations?

Rami's suggestion of monetary help is far better than reservations!

[narayanan]

I think your opinion is biased when you tell concessions based on economics. We cannot compare two poor candidates one uppercaste son of a teacher and the other son of a BC/OBC involved in very humble work. The uppercaste boy though poor has some basic knowledge and guidance for him to improve in life which is not there for the other person.

Actually your example itself sounds one sided. A son of a teacher would sure get help and guidance from his father.

Well inspite of their parents' work, if the children have no better job than to study. Then those children do not need reservation irrespective of class, what they would need is financial help maybe.

I dont mean to say eradicate reservation policy, but the current policy isnt right and should be revised. Sure it is useful for the ones who cant afford the education, but surely it doesnt make sense for a well off OBC candidate to qualify for reservation benifits.


Tell me how do the uppercaste people react to BC/OBC person who are qualified and in good positions, they readily accepy them and easily accomodate them.

What you say might be true in the 50s and 60s when people were deeply soaked in it. But today nobody bothers, as long as you do productive work, who is going to ask your community background ? If the employee isnt competent enough and the employer terminates him, if the employee is gonna bring up caste as an issue, does that sound right ?

[crazy]

sorry for bringing this back into track :(
i just read about the students protest against gov increasing quota for the backward class in b'lore. it really changed my opinion!

i do beleive that india really need the reservation system, though it might have a negative side as well, but i was just thinking ............if there wasn't system like this at all what wil happens to those backward class? stil been walked over :roll:
for a country like India which have been in caste sytem for centuries, reservation system is the only thing that could possibly help these people out of their denied rights and equality!

[alwarpet_andavan]

Rami,
That forward is as casteist as it is scathing but kind of misses the point of reservations.

Firstly, lets dispel the "merit" myth, at least as far as medical entrance tests in TN are concerned.

[tscii:903ecec9e9]
Going `forward' in medical admissions?

By K. Ramachandran

CHENNAI, AUG. 22. Call it the success of social justice or fulfilment of the aspirations of the intermediate classes.

Students belonging to the Backward Class (BC) or Most Backward Classes (MBC) have taken 952 of the total 1,224 seats in 12 government medical colleges in the State (77.9 per cent).

The first 14 ranks in the medical admissions went to BC/MBC students. Even in the open competition category, five Scheduled Caste (SC) candidates have got into MBBS course this year.

Of course, these figures pertain to the original selection list based on 69 per cent reservation (meaning not counting the additional 14 candidates from open competition category admitted to MBBS as per a Supreme Court's order for implementing 50 per cent reservation.

These are candidates who would have got MBBS seats in case the 50 per cent reservation was implemented, but did not because of 69 per cent reservation).

In Tamil Nadu, BCs get 30 per cent reservation in educational institutions, MBCs 20; SCs 18; and Scheduled Tribes (ST) one per cent. The 1,224 medical seats then get divided into 354 for BCs; 247 for MBCs; 226 for SCs; and 13 for STs. The rest of the 384 seats are allowed as open competition, where everyone competes, regardless of community.

The final tally (original list with 69 per cent reservation) released by the Directorate of Medical Education however shows that only 28 students from the `non-reserved' or Forward Caste (FC) have got into government medical colleges, representing about 2.3 per cent. In fact, in the top 400 rank holders only 31 are from FC. In the top 100 rank holders only six are from the FC, 79 from BC and 13 from MBC.

High marks

Of the 395 candidates called for counselling under the open competition, 315 were from BC, 45 from MBC and five from SC category, clearly showing that these candidates have succeeded in getting very high marks that were good enough to get them into the much sought-after MBBS course without the benefit of communal reservation.

Even SC candidates have done better. A total of 231 candidates (18.9 per cent) got into government medical colleges, much higher than the 226 (18 per cent) seats normally reserved for this category.

BCs benefit

Salem-based consultant Jayaprakash Gandhi, who analysed the results, agrees that the BC candidates have really benefited.

There is every chance that a substantial number, say 80 per cent or more of those who benefited from the `improvement scheme' are BC and MBC candidates.

He wonders as to why FC candidates are not there. "Is it that they are no longer as competitive as they used to be? Or is that they are preferring other courses such as those in the Indian Institutes of Technology or all-India level engineering courses in Birla Institute of Technology and Science, Pilani."

Pointing to the tough competition among the different sets of people, Mr. Gandhi says the last ranked FC candidate got an overall score of 295.74 (in the first list); the last BC rank was 294.26, the last MBC rank 292.13, the last SC rank 287.56 and the last ST rank 274.13.

"The first FC rank was 15 in the main rank list and even that candidate did not turn up, as per the records available. Now the 19th ranked person is the first FC candidate to get into MBBS this year," he says.

Of the 28 persons from the FC, only three each were in the two top-ranked colleges — Madras Medical College and Stanley Medical College. In the Kilpauk Medical College, nine FC candidates have got into MBBS, four in the Thanjavur Medical College, two in Coimbatore, one in Chengalpattu, three in Madurai, one in Tiruchi and two at Tirunelveli. There are no FC candidates in the Tuticorin and Kanyakumari Medical Colleges.

Self-financing colleges

Mr. Gandhi notes that in the self-financing colleges (PSG Medical College, Coimbatore - 56 seats and IRT Medical College, Erode - 34 seats), the FC candidates have secured 18 seats, which again shows that BC/MBC candidates have outperformed their FC peers
[/tscii:903ecec9e9]
Source: http://www.hindu.com/2004/08/23/stories/2004082308900400.htm

[alwarpet_andavan]

Having said that, we also see/hear of statistical reports that many seats reserved for backward categories [SC/ST] remaining vacant and suchlike. This brings us to the question, have reservations really met the goals they were supposed to acheive? If so, to what extent? Has any independent or Govt body been studying the benefits, if any?
What is the premise, in the first place of having a reservation policy?
Certain sections of the population have been denied their rights and opportunities [it still continues as pointed out by Rajasaranam].
FC's constitute a small part of the caste pie in terms of population and yet occupy the highest percentage when it comes to representation. Though it might be perceived as being due to innate differences in ability, it doesn't turn out to be so actually.

IMO, there are two angles to it:
a) Representation
b) "Definition of merit

a) Representation: Due to the drastically disproportionate representation of the non-FC population in spheres of education and profession, one [affected sections, the political class etc] would feel that the playing ground be made "unequal" to correct wrongs that have been perpetrated for centuries. The issues this raises are; what happens to merit and quality?; Are all BC/MBC/SC/ST to be benificiaries even if they are economically and socially "well off"?; How to prevent one family getting the benefit across generations [parent/offspring/his or her offspring and so on], which would be counter-productive? Wouldn't representation based on economic status rather than caste/community be a better model?
IMO, strictly caste-based representation would be counter-productive. A few days back The Hindu had a two-part article which addressed these issues which attempted a solution
[to a considerable extent]

b) Definition of merit: Are entrance exams, as they function now, the best definition of merit? A city student who has means and resources for coaching classes etc has an edge over a poor/rural student to a good extent. The set-up and infrastructure in rural schools, corporation schools are different from those in urban areas. Upper caste students in general seem to benefit more [based on the distribution of population and wealth] by virtue of these advantages. In that case, are reservations the right solution? Wouldn't a infrastructure face-lift or ramp-up be the more desirable solution? The root of the problem appears [b]before the entrance tests, ie the educational system and policy stage itself. This needs a political and economic solution.

These are just my views based on a far from thorough understanding of the issues. I still have more questions than answers :)