consciousness and DEATH.........

[Shakthiprabha.]

so,

talk bout it....................

[Shakthiprabha.]

PRADEEP, ROHIT

I miss u BOTH here in misc section. PLZ COME AND POST.

NOTHING SEEMS to be clear. I AM STILL THE SAME :(

[Lambretta]

PRADEEP, ROHIT

I miss u BOTH here in misc section. PLZ COME AND POST.

NOTHING SEEMS to be clear. I AM STILL THE SAME :(
Venda maa Thaaye! :shock: :oops:
Avanga rendu perum inge post panna avanga paatuke as usual, apdiye argue pannite poranga........appo NOTHING will still seem to be clear! We'll still be the same! :| :roll:

[Shakthiprabha.]

no lambretta,

I FEEL, they both TELL WISE POINTS...... its excellnt for PPL LIKE ME (cat on the wall types) TO decide ourselves.

:(

I WONT LET THIS THREAD DIE. lets c....

lets hear new discussions.

I WANT SCIENTIFIC explanations (to the core)
and RELIGIOUS on the other side......

i wanna weigh and see :oops:

[pavalamani pragasam]

SP, very vague! :?

coma? euthanasia? jeevathma-paramathma?rebirth? hell& heaven? deathbed trauma? science of "matter is indestructible"?

[Shakthiprabha.]

yeah pp maam.

its vague. I WANNA DISCUSS IT FROM ALLLLLLLL ANGLES ASPECTS :( :?

I wanna discuss it from.........

AWARENESS point of view
matter point of view
so...... why do we talk of COMA when we talk of death?

(def. not the routine rebirth hell or heaven angle...)

[pavalamani pragasam]

Some are comatose before dying, some are not! :roll: There are certain type of accidents, certain methods of suicide when there is instant death, painless death; there are some unfortunate beings whose end is drawn out & painful :(
Still I don't get what you want to discuss! :?

[Raghu]

SP acca,

Very vague Question indeed, but simple answer is this; I am talking from Vedic Philosophical views!

Let me ask u a question, what is the difference between a Living Body and dead body?

Consciousness is called Atma, the one which activates the body (this is called Shiva), and the body which requires energy (called Shakthi) to function, so a living body needs both to survive, this is y in Hinduism; it is beautifully described as SHIVASHAKTHI!

Dead body is when the Atma leaves the body, the perishable body is USELESS, and it can not function.

[malsi]

i just dont understand the topic

[Lambretta]

I WANT SCIENTIFIC explanations (to the core) and RELIGIOUS on the other side......
i wanna weigh and see :oops:
Hmm....I wud like to mention sumthing related to religious aspect..but I suspect if tat is discussed here, the mods. may wan2 to move this thread to the History secn....:?

[goodsense]

Could be something SP or someone close to her is going through or worried about and she can't be more clear that this :?

[ssanjinika]

SP,we have to start somewhere.Evallo vague-a topic errunda where to start? :?

[bingleguy]

Shakthi !

what exactly is the topic about ?

[Shakthiprabha.]

raghu and lambretta get my clue. :)

good sense,

:) . well i am v. curious to know WHAT WOULD HAPPEN, after someone dies. not that anything is right now bothering me :)

****

raghu, fine

u say body perishes. ( I AGREE shakthi is what makes it function)

fine........ so body is useless with soul. is vice versa true too?

they say NO....... SOUL LIVES...

how? whats the STATE OF THE SOUL THEN.

lambretta,

THIS AINT HISTORY...... :cry:

this is SCIENCE... of body and matter and existence. :roll:

[dev]

SP, Do u believe in reincarnation?... I guess there are chances that someting like that to happen... I don't think there can be a precise/clear answer to what happens after death... It all depends on what one wants to believes in: Scientific expl or religious expl or a combi of both... I don't think there can be any scientific expl on what happens after death as science requires proof... So I'm of the kind who believes in reincarnation... :roll:

[Raghu]

SP acca,

Give me some time, I will answer ur question in DETAIL, this discussion will interest me the MOST

[Shakthiprabha.]

raghu.......

i am waiting.

dev,

:) I do believe in re-incarnation. Question here however is different.

[dev]

Sp, que ennanu enaku clear-aa puriyalai... :roll: :?

[Raghu]

fine........ so body is useless without soul. is vice versa true too?



Correct!

Atma + Body =life

Shiva+Shakthi= ShivaShakthi

Soul Can not function without body, and vice versa.




they say NO....... SOUL LIVES...



Yes , Atma NEVER perishes, but IT can Join the PARAMATHMA by MUKTHI / MOKSHA, if it does not attain Mukthi/Moksha, it takes an INFINITE number of bodies according to it's Karma(activities)!.




how? whats the STATE OF THE SOUL THEN.



Atma is always TRANSMIGRATING from SHAREER(body) to body according to it's KARMA(activities, that ATma performs in each body), the next the Atma gets depends on it's activities, what ever Karma(be it good or bad) u have done in ur last life continues in this life, this is known as 'Poorva Genma Karma'.

Atma is said to leave the body through the third eye, like Netrikan of Maheshwar, this is called Kundali(i think), hence Kundali yoga was introduced to teach about this.

[dev]

Good expl, Raghu...

[P_R]

When the body stops working it is death. Consciousness, like everything else, is a bodily function so it stops with death.

My vocabulary here is woefully naive. I have no understanding of an omnipresent cosmic consciousness nor do I feel it. Perhaps because feeling and understanding are bodily functions.

I hope to feel and understand more and more before my body stops functioning.

[Arthi]

Wow Nice topic Guruji :clap:

I have one doubt...
When the body stops working it is death... ok I accept this...
But why some people die in accident/disease etc. KARMA has a vital role in this.. but what my question is if am a good human being in this JANAM, then why I should reap my last incarnations karma i had done.

I donot know what I was in my last JANAM & what did i do, so why should all my UPs & DOWNs in this life should depend upon my last life?????

[pavalamani pragasam]

There is a concept called Providence which says "everything is for the good", that there is meaning, order, purpose in the scheme of things happening in our lives. No reference to past jenmams, paavam, punniyam, their consequences. But there is still a meaning to everything that happens, good & bad. A lucky, patient & wise person will realise the meanings clearly, convincingly sooner or later. Trust in this Providence will give strength to endure everything. It is the religion alike atheism!

[P_R]

But there is still a meaning to everything that happens, good & bad. A lucky, patient & wise person will realise the meanings clearly, convincingly sooner or later

Is this is a conclusion or optimism :-)

[Arthi]

PP mam, you are right.. I also strongly believe that whatever is happening there should be some meaning behind that and all for GOOD only.
When you try to find out the meaning.. there comes a lot of confusion/mix-up...
What is the purpose of this life... some people die at a very early age.. some people are suffering with diseases and burden for others...
En andha vayasanavanga Kashtapadanum... what is the purpose/reason behind that... why god has not given them a peaceful death...

[Shakthiprabha.]

Fine atma leaves the body......... and enters another.

OR.......

JOINS paramatma.......

SO what exactly is the latter?
birthless state right?

Can we define the characteristics? of atma in PARAMATMA state? (without body)

or STATE OF SOUL when its transmigrating?

[Arthi]

so many doubts ... can anyone answer :D & enlighten us

[pavalamani pragasam]

Such a vast scope for IMAGINATION!!!

[Arthi]

Such a vast scope for IMAGINATION!!!


:roll:

[Raghu]

Fine atma leaves the body......... and enters another.


We get our bodies according to our karma(activities),those who are
in the mode of goodness are promoted to Higher planets of life, those who are in the mode of passion(desires, materialistic) remains as Human(like us) those whose are in the mode of Ignorance are transformed into lower species like animals, Those who are in the mode of 'SELF REALISATION and BHAKTHI' ,COMPLETELY away from MAYA & this COSMIC ILLUSION, attain Mukthi or MOKSHA, such peoples are Yogis, Rishi, Sanyasis




JOINS paramatma.......


when an Atma gives up all material desire , and come out of Maya , and surreners unto the Paramatma, COMPLETELEY free from maya and this cosmic illusion, this Atma joins with the Paramata, and is FREED from the MISERABLE cycle of Life , disease, old age and death



SO what exactly is the latter?
birthless state right?


CORRECT!!!

[Shakthiprabha.]

Raghu,

U answered all what i am atleast little aware of. Thanks anyway. :)

My main questions were. the last two lines.

Can we define the characteristics? of atma in PARAMATMA state? (without body)

or STATE OF SOUL when its transmigrating?

[Braandan]

http://www.well.com/~jct/

[Lambretta]

http://www.well.com/~jct/
I used to visit this site on UG Krishnamurti a couple of yrs ago wen I began taking greater interest in spirituality.........but later, eventually I didnt find his sayings very worthy of appreciation! :?

[Braandan]

Lambretta,
So you lost interest in Spirituality because of this anti-guru? He does not care about anybody's appreciation or the lack of it! That is what I liked about him. This discussion thread is also in the "thought-sphere" trying to comprehend something which is outside it. The "frame of reference" from which we make the observations is not the same as the one in which the object of observation is. So we are just chasing our own tails. For example Shaktiprabha's question, assumes the existence of atma and paramatma, which we have no way of knowing the existence of. (The only thing good about atma is the first 3 letters which is where I go to get money!)

[Lambretta]

Lambretta,
So you lost interest in Spirituality because of this anti-guru? He does not care about anybody's appreciation or the lack of it! That is what I liked about him.
Nope Braandan, I certainly did not lose interest in spirituality bcos of him! :)
Rather I developed more interest after reading UGK's sayings (even tho I didn't quite find his views satisfying in this regard).....altho in a way tat he certainly had nothing to do w. in his life....!
And yes, even otherwsie, ne true 'guru' wudn't really bother abt the result of ther 'teachings'....they'd impart it neways & leave it to the ppl. to follow it or not. :)

[Shakthiprabha.]

Braandan,

Would check it out. He seems to say THOUGHTS maketh us.

We are nothing if thoughts stop its prescence.hmmm?

Would read it fully and get back. than,sk for the wonderful link :)

[r_o_j_a]

living body
has a soul

dead body
no soul

[Sandeep]

Interesting topic.

Consciousness, Self, Mind all these have been so mystic because of lack of human understanding of his own brain.

Now Neurologists are increasingly attributing consciousness and self to neuron activity within Brain. It is widely accepted now in the scientific community that Mind and Identity is only the result of a enormous collection of neuron activities within some specific parts of the Brain.

Well research is still on; science is increasingly questioning even the basics of various believes including "free will".

[Shakthiprabha.]

hmm santheep

plz some links?

[anbu_kathir]

Hi there..
I am new here, and have been following the discussion of late. These topics interest me the most, and I have been actively reading and experiencing about them for the past 2 years.
So heres my two cent...

There are in terminology three basic ways ....

1. Dvaita : This is an ideology where the division between the Supreme and the Human is always existing, there is no Moksha. The highest point of spiritual evolution is direct service to the Lord. This is like closed unbreakable pot inside an ocean. The ocean and the pot and its water always exist separately.

2. Vishistadvaita: In this way, the pot of water and the ocean exist initially. But the pot may be broken (Moksha can be attained), through Saranagati, or Total Surrender. I see this was what Raghu was talking about.

3. Advaita: In this way, the pot of water inside the Ocean never really existed, it is the Imagination of the Ocean ie the Universe is like the Supreme Being's dream. So all that is needed to dispense of this dream is Knowledge ( Jnanam ).

Coming to your questions, Shakthi, I feel, according to Advaita, there is none but the Atman at all. All is the Atman. Even the Body, the Mind and every piece of inert matter ( none of this are inert though, if you see them close enough .. all of the Universe vibrates with God's ( the Paramatman 's ) energy. Inherently the Jivatman = the Paramatman, any distinction though, is merely an Illusion.

The characteristics of the Paramatman, ... well.... that would give a paradox, for the Paramatman is simply Everything. So the characteristics of the Paramatman are Infinite. Yet it is described as Nirguna ( non characteristic ) also. So you see, it is extremely hard to fix any characteristic to the Atman or the Paramatman .. as that would merely limit them , which is not true at all.

The Atman, is always in transmigration. There is no time it is not changing. Yet they call it the Constant. But I do feel that it is Change, that can never be Unchange. So it must be a Constant , Constant Change rather. There can be no predefined " states " to the Soul when it is changing, for these can be given only to energy or matter forms. But after death and before birth, it does take up bodies of different natures, not physical ones, called Sukshma Sharira ( Subtle body) or maybe other forms too ( I dont think humans/animals/plants are the only forms of the Soul ) . In fact, the scriptures refer to three different types of bodies

1.The Sthula Sharira ( The Physical , gross body )
2. The Sukshma Sharira ( The Subtle body )
3. The Kaarana Sharira ( The Causal Body)

All of these bodies exist at all physical level. On death, the last two still exist.. and maybe coexisting with other forms too.

Love to all.






Raghu,

U answered all what i am atleast little aware of. Thanks anyway. :)

My main questions were. the last two lines.

Can we define the characteristics? of atma in PARAMATMA state? (without body)

or STATE OF SOUL when its transmigrating?

[Braandan]

Shakthiprabha,
How do you know that you are conscious when you are alive?
How do you know that you are alive at all?

[Shakthiprabha.]

1.The Sthula Sharira ( The Physical , gross body )
2. The Sukshma Sharira ( The Subtle body )
3. The Kaarana Sharira ( The Causal Body)

All of these bodies exist at all physical level. On death, the last two still exist.. and maybe coexisting with other forms too.

Love to all.

hi kathir :) nice post.

I understand when we attain moksha, THERE IS NO BODY AT ALL, may it be stula, sukshma or kaarana :)
only then we attain moksha.

Moksha I am told is IMMENSE HAPPINESS. UNLIMITED BLISS. So they say.

So, AGAIN I REPEAT THE QUESTION........

WHAT IS that happiness which we exp at that level? (Ive heard of examples of apple taste which can be felt only when it is tasted but cant be explained :)......)

I feel this happiness is SIMPLE, BLUNT, FRANKLY SPEAKING
"NON-EXISTANCE"

So, any contradictory views?

[Shakthiprabha.]

Shakthiprabha,
How do you know that you are conscious when you are alive?
How do you know that you are alive at all?

we would be CONSCIOUS that we are alive ONLY WHEN WE ARE AWARE.

Even non living things are conscious. BUT NOT AWARE. Thats what I think! :?

How do we know that i am alive?

hmmmm... my brain tells me. my sense organ tells me.
So thats why i feel, WHEN NO SARIRA OR BODY IS THERE,
and no brain to perceive it, I WONT BE AWARE OF MY CONSCIOUSNESS (PARA BRAHMAN) though consciousness exist at all level. (BECAUSE AWARENESS IS ABSENT)

am i making sense :( :oops:

[anbu_kathir]

Moksha .. isnt an "attainment", I feel. It is not the reaction of any Karma, be it good or bad. It is a state of Pure Being, Pure Love. It is not necessary to do anything to get there, for it isnt a place. It is that which Transcends all dualities. It is not necessary that Moksha deprives one of the body, for there have been Jivanmuktas, or people who are liberated and yet occupy a physical body. Having or not having a physical body is purely a matter of choice, then.

Moksha is simply the realization ( Conscious Awareness ) that one is THe Only One That Is, All That Is. There is nothing that the Paramatman is not, and Moksha is simply " remembrance" of the fact that the Atman and Brahman are One. I say remembrance here, for we have merely forgotten the Knowledge. There is nothing to learn in reality, only to be remembered.

Yes... as they say, it is Sat-Chit-Ananda (Existence, Knowledge, Bliss ) Absolute. I feel, it is both "Non existence and All - Existence". The first one is claimed by Buddhism, and the second is claimed by Advaita. I feel both are inherently the same, two sides of one coin.

There is something that comes close, in fact is the same feeling... Love for Everything, for everything becomes " I ", and we do know we love ourselves much greater than anything else in this world and beyond. So you see, Realization is simply a Perspective Shift of the " I " from the body-mind-intellect combination of the current shells we dwell in, to All That Is.

Love to all.





I understand when we attain moksha, THERE IS NO BODY AT ALL, may it be stula, sukshma or kaarana :)
only then we attain moksha.

Moksha I am told is IMMENSE HAPPINESS. UNLIMITED BLISS. So they say.

So, AGAIN I REPEAT THE QUESTION........

WHAT IS that happiness which we exp at that level? So, any contradictory views?

[pavalamani pragasam]

Down the history the race has been on a search, a quest for perfect happiness, metaphorically or conceptually - Utopia, the Holy Grail or Moksha. Such a quest may be necessary for motivating mankind to trudge on! A wise trick!!!

[Sandeep]

hmm santheep

plz some links?

http://www.frontlineonnet.com/stories/20060407005400400.htm

A conversation with Professor V.S. Ramachandran, world-renowned explorer of the human brain, on neuroscience, philosophy, consciousness and beyond.

[Braandan]

Shaktiprabha,
You are just repeating what others have already told.. awareness.. and all. My question is without any external knowledge (without the society teaching you any language, abstract nouns like "awareness") how do you know that you are aware? Does other natural beings know that they are aware. But they all live, right? What is the necessity of being aware? What is the necessity of knowing that you are alive or dead or aware or not aware?

[Shakthiprabha.]

braandan,

sense organs?

[Braandan]

Sense organs are again taught to you from childhood. This is your eye it sees, this is your ear it hears..etc.. or may be more technically by doctors.. I am asking you, without any outside knowledge which you gathered from childhood or from the outside society, how do you "know" that there are sense organs? Or for that matter, any things you "recognize".. how do you "know" that you are aware of the thing you recognize. For example the moment you see a chair, you translate the seeing into the word "chair". So you are not seeing, you are just tranlating! How do you "know" that there is a "chair".

[Sandeep]

Whats your point Braandan?

[Shakthiprabha.]

brain?

brain interprets.

so..........where are we arriving at?

there is nothing beyond neural activity of brain?

I repeat sandeep's question.

[bingleguy]

ofcourse BRAIN interprets what u see,feel, hear, touch or whatever !
me too repeating whatever quest the previous members asked Brandann !

[pavalamani pragasam]

The difference between recognising (acquired knowledge) and experiencing (actual 'undergoing')? "Kandavar vindilar, vindavar kandilar"?

[crazy]

. For example the moment you see a chair, you translate the seeing into the word "chair". So you are not seeing, you are just translating! How do you "know" that there is a "chair".

Branden i don't get what u r asking?
do u mean that how we know that for instance that's a chair?
hm :roll: as sp akka already told, brain interprets i guess! but how does brain interprets?! iam thinking. actually iam squeezing my tiny poor brain, and it's refusing to answer. propably i have to sleep over it!
i asked some dummy questions, to a man some years ago and he asked me read this page. i don't know whether that's so useful to u in this point. but try if u like
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1863/faq.html
but this man just lead me into a jungle and iam still there. haven't learned anything yet and haven't found my way back either! :roll:

[crazy]

braandan here is another link
http://psychclassics.yorku.ca/James/consciousness.htm

erkanave loosathaan irundhen, innum loosahanum endru ezhuthiyirukku pola hmmmmmmmmm
apropos loosu, i read a book my paulo coelho called "veronica decides to die" that's about what is to be insane or mentall- yrs ago my teacher found it much relevent to me and suggested me to read, any one likes to know about "loosu! read this!

NB: that book was actually wonderful, but a bit uncomfortable too!

[anbu_kathir]

Braandan.... We are taught about sense organs, yes. But they really neednt be taught. Even if a person is left alone by himself right from his birth, it is possible he learns about his senses, though they might seem bewildering at first.(close the eyes, the world disappears, open and there it is! ) Of course, with company, such first beings would learning faster, and understanding quicker about the senses for they could communicate a common reaction. So senses neednt be taught to know.

However your point about 'knowing that a chair is a chair' is true. All beings have memory, and recall the label for any object from previous experience. Without the previous experience, humans would see and learn about the object and eventually give it a name, as evolution has proved. You can see from the word " recognize " itself.... one simply Re-Cognizes ...the object, based on ones memories. How one is aware .. is a sorta difficult question....

Love and Light :)





Sense organs are again taught to you from childhood. This is your eye it sees, this is your ear it hears..etc.. or may be more technically by doctors.. I am asking you, without any outside knowledge which you gathered from childhood or from the outside society, how do you "know" that there are sense organs? Or for that matter, any things you "recognize".. how do you "know" that you are aware of the thing you recognize. For example the moment you see a chair, you translate the seeing into the word "chair". So you are not seeing, you are just tranlating! How do you "know" that there is a "chair".

[Sandeep]

[tscii:6737316056]One Science fiction question.

If you replace one man's brain in another’s body, will the second guy have the conscious of the first ? :?
[/tscii:6737316056]

[Braandan]

Anbu kathir
Yes.. if there is no memory which links the previous moment with the present, there is no sense of "continuity" and hence there is no sense of "self" or "consciousness".. you and me are just wired to feel this consciousness as real. In reality there is no self at all! The continuity of the knowledge of I in you is called the sense of self. "Learning" is the problem (in other words, it is only the memory which store what you learn..) so no memory, then each moment is just that moment, no previous, no present, no future to relate to!

[anbu_kathir]

"There is no Self" - Point taken ... Braandan. But there is another conclusion to this .... " The Self Is the Only Thing there Is" . It is quite difficult to exactly say which of these conclusion is correct. After all, if there is only One, how can the One know anything about its existence. Awareness cannot be Self Aware of Itself. It needs an "other", an "object" to become aware. So, the game is played.....

I feel you are correct about the "sense of the self" being perpetuated by memories. Yup.... The only place there is in truth, is Here, the only time there is in truth, is Now. These have been repeated over and over by Masters over the past and now too. It is by the application of this truth that the Masters become what they are.

much Love and Light

[Shakthiprabha.]

Anbu kathir
Yes.. if there is no memory which links the previous moment with the present, there is no sense of "continuity" and hence there is no sense of "self" or "consciousness".. you and me are just wired to feel this consciousness as real. In reality there is no self at all! The continuity of the knowledge of I in you is called the sense of self. "Learning" is the problem (in other words, it is only the memory which store what you learn..) so no memory, then each moment is just that moment, no previous, no present, no future to relate to!

:( :|

This is what I figured. This is what I feared.

This is what I am able to comprehend too.

Atlast there is JUST NOTHING............ without imprints, memory......... and brain to perceive.

so........ its just time........ space............ nothingness. :?

[Braandan]

Yes Anbu_Kathir is right. Corollary is that there is only "The Self".. (tough, as we have not been given the faculties to explain that..)

Shakti,
it is not "Nothingness" also.. The Sat-Chit-Ananda
exists and is conscious and is bliss, and that is the Self.. the whole Universe..
Death of the body is just recycling of matter.. it does not die just recycles to change form.

[Shakthiprabha.]

As pp maam and pradeep (other thread)

says............... I THINK IT HAS TO BE EXPERIENCED.

Someday i might say.................. i know..........therez something beyond science :( ........

i am waiting for it.........

[Shakthiprabha.]

IRUKKUM idathai vittu
ILLAATHA IDAM THEDI.......

engengo alaigindraar gnana thangamE
avaar .......
ethum ariyaradeee gnana thangamE.......

(for fools like me............ theyve sung ...... :) )

[Braandan]

In the scene of the above song, Gemini Ganesan is Lord Shiva, testing his devotee Shivaji Ganesan who is a dhobi.
Film: ThiruArutChelvar. Gemini Ganesan is singing this song in the scene.

[anbu_kathir]

Illaatha Idam thaan ethuvo?


IRUKKUM idathai vittu
ILLAATHA IDAM THEDI.......

engengo alaigindraar gnana thangamE
avaar .......
ethum ariyaradeee gnana thangamE.......

(for fools like me............ theyve sung ...... :) )

[Shakthiprabha.]

anbu........

true.

sarvam brahma mayam :) (including 'AHAM' )

puriyuthu......... aana puriyalai
theriyuthu....... aana theriyalai.....

:(

[anbu_kathir]

Including "aham"...? u mean Aham is different from Sarvam ?

lol... just carrying on the worthless worthful discussion..
Love and Light



anbu........

true.

sarvam brahma mayam :) (including 'AHAM' )

puriyuthu......... aana puriyalai
theriyuthu....... aana theriyalai.....

:(

[Shakthiprabha.]

I meant...........

sarvam brahma mayam
aham brahmasmi
aham sarvam
aham brahmma mayam

thats it

the whole crux.............. but nobody would understand it fully, unless he is a realised it soul

[nms]

Hi Shakthi!
Consciousness & Death..interesting topic.
For a scientific reason you may read books by Shri.Vethathiri maharishi.

He has given scientific explanations/answers for the following:

1.What are thoughts?How do they originate?The power of thoughts.
2.What is BioMagnetism?Ways to increase our BioMagnetism.
3.What is Universal magnetism?How does it affect the normal man.
4.What is Mind?What are it's characters?
5.What is Soul,It's natue and Characters.
6.Who is God or what is God?How to attain Mukthi?
7.Soul - Before and After Death.What is death?
8. Paavam & Punniyam - Where are they recorded (in our body)?How are they calculated? How do their effects take place?
9.Explanations about witch-craft.
10.How do the planets play a role in one's life...

The list will be much longer.

He has explained all these in a pure scientific way.In simple English & Tamil.All rational thinkers will accept his Philosophies.
Let me give some of that I have learned through Him...sometime later.

[Braandan]

Parrots.. Parrots.. or just Tape recorders.. recording and playing back...

None of the above is originally experienced, by anybody. Because, to recognize any experience you must have prior knowledge (somebody else should have the info given to you about it).

For example when you see a chair, you recognize it as a chair because somebody has told you (or you have read etc.) that it is a "chair" in any given language.

[Shakthiprabha.]

Hi Shakthi!
Consciousness & Death..interesting topic.
For a scientific reason you may read books by Shri.Vethathiri maharishi.

He has given scientific explanations/answers for the following:

1.What are thoughts?How do they originate?The power of thoughts.
2.What is BioMagnetism?Ways to increase our BioMagnetism.
3.What is Universal magnetism?How does it affect the normal man.
4.What is Mind?What are it's characters?
5.What is Soul,It's natue and Characters.
6.Who is God or what is God?How to attain Mukthi?
7.Soul - Before and After Death.What is death?
8. Paavam & Punniyam - Where are they recorded (in our body)?How are they calculated? How do their effects take place?
9.Explanations about witch-craft.
10.How do the planets play a role in one's life...

The list will be much longer.

He has explained all these in a pure scientific way.In simple English & Tamil.All rational thinkers will accept his Philosophies.
Let me give some of that I have learned through Him...sometime later.

nms, Ive broadly read some philosophy of shri. vedhatri maharishi. I assume he is the one who says..........

at the ultimate level or salvated level or its just NOTHINGNESS.
iruppu nilai iruppathillai, at that level.

its jsut a vaccum. :? (sutha veLi)

[nms]

Parrots.. Parrots.. or just Tape recorders.. recording and playing back...

None of the above is originally experienced, by anybody. Because, to recognize any experience you must have prior knowledge (somebody else should have the info given to you about it).

For example when you see a chair, you recognize it as a chair because somebody has told you (or you have read etc.) that it is a "chair" in any given language.


Somethings can be experienced ..and cannnot be explained..

As thirumoolar has said in one of his poems:

"A mother cannot explain the satisfaction and happiness she got from her husband to her daughter ( the daughter shud experience it and can understand herself),Similarly,Practicing meditation and the mental peace attained cannot be explained" .

[nms]

nms, Ive broadly read some philosophy of shri. vedhatri maharishi. I assume he is the one who says..........

at the ultimate level or salvated level or its just NOTHINGNESS.
iruppu nilai iruppathillai, at that level.

its jsut a vaccum. :? (sutha veLi)

Exactly,Hence in tamizh they call them as "Poojyar"

[Shakthiprabha.]

nms,
dont u think at ultimate level, HE refuses CONSIOUSNESS? or awareness?

[Shakthiprabha.]

I was a believer of god.

ivanga books konjam lesa padicha piragu thaan I came to a conclusion its just SCIENCE.

we have feelings cause , AT PARTICULAR MIXTURE OF AIR, WATER, FIRE AND EARTH, there is something called feeling.

else we are devoid of it.

SUTHA VELI / OR VACCUM..... ANGU onnum iruppathillai. aanaal that holds all. Its so powerful, it analyses or understands itself when BY THE FORCE OF SCIENCE changes its form :?

[nms]

I can't understand ur Q.

At ultimate state One's brain wave is in "Delta" - Medically Coma state.

But still he/she will be in consciousness and awareness.Of course that will bring the difference between medical Coma and God Conscious state.

"Aanma Irainilayodu layitha Nilai - Aalaya Nilai"

[nms]

I was a believer of god.

ivanga books konjam lesa padicha piragu thaan I came to a conclusion its just SCIENCE.

we have feelings cause , AT PARTICULAR MIXTURE OF AIR, WATER, FIRE AND EARTH, there is something called feeling.

else we are devoid of it.

SUTHA VELI / OR VACCUM..... ANGU onnum iruppathillai. aanaal that holds all. Its so powerful, it analyses or understands itself when BY THE FORCE OF SCIENCE changes its form :?

In primitive stages wen science cannot be explained ,our ancestors were forced to threaten their wards that if they do some good deed they wud b in heaven and at hell if they didi the opposite..

Iraivanidam Anbai valarpadharkku pathilaaga bayam kalandha bakthiyayum,mariyaadhaiyaiyum valarthu varugiroam.

Iraivanin anbaiyum,karunaiyayum vunara thavari vitoam.

[Shakthiprabha.]

nms,

oru murai, I tried to feel this.

I was repeatedly saying to myself JUST BEFORE GOING TO SLEEP, i wanna keep aware of HOW I GO THERE.

Actually it was kinda good.

I was thinking....... thinking...... then suddenly no thinking.......... then I found a fulllllll light of violet for SPLIT SECONDS encircling my inner body. and then.......... It was like I am losing myself into sleep.
I shook msyelf back, and then felt............. THAT MUST BE DELTA :? :roll:

It was nice experiencing that split second nevertheless :)

nms,

may be what u say is true.

vindavar kandilar
kandavar vindilar

medical coma is diff from aanma nilai :(

I REALLY REALLY REALLY HOPE ITS DIFFERENT :(

[nms]

Everything in this Universe is pure science and Maths and simply saying we shud understand WAVE THEORY and about MAGNETISM.

[Shakthiprabha.]

hmmmm........

thats why......... i ask

is there anything beyond waves and magnetism?

even feeligns and senses are waves and magnetism and atoms and matter only :)

[Hulkster]

A more broader saying would be that anything that happens in this world involves maths.

There is also another type of experience called the outer body experience where the soul will visit another world or place during a deep sleep..this is not death but this has happened before when the soul actually leaves the body to see another place in which certain accounts by people have stated that the description of the place the soul visited is very true. I believe this is initiated when the mind is in a very sleepy state or is in extremely deep thoughts/vibrations during sleep.

[Hulkster]

Feelings is a description of how we react to our surroundings and our people....it is usually initiated when our mind reads in our understanding of the situation/people/thing etc and then sends a surge of emotions through our nerves to make us "feel". Scientists have a clearer understanding of this i suppose.

[nms]

nms,

oru murai, I tried to feel this.

I was repeatedly saying to myself JUST BEFORE GOING TO SLEEP, i wanna keep aware of HOW I GO THERE.

Actually it was kinda good.

I was thinking....... thinking...... then suddenly no thinking.......... then I found a fulllllll light of violet for SPLIT SECONDS encircling my inner body. and then.......... It was like I am losing myself into sleep.
I shook msyelf back, and then felt............. THAT MUST BE DELTA :? :roll:

It was nice experiencing that split second nevertheless :)

nms,

may be what u say is true.

vindavar kandilar
kandavar vindilar

medical coma is diff from aanma nilai :(

I REALLY REALLY REALLY HOPE ITS DIFFERENT :(


Great to hear and a little jealous about your anubavam.
I don't know about which state it was.
But maharishi has said " In the beginning stages of meditation, one will see different colours of light,hear sounds( sounds of ur food being digested,heart beats,movement of blood in the vessels etc.,) and in ultimate state u will not be feeling these, just eternal silence and the vision will be pure black - GUM Iruttu"

and for the poem u have mentioned ,he has given a reason for that too in a poem.- I will get you that as soon as posible.That poem is in the book" Gnanamum Vazhvum"

[Hulkster]

I would like to state that while i am dreaming..there have been certain times that i felt that my soul was almost ripped apart from my body..or sometimes my mind just feels like it is controlled only to wake up to see that nothing has happened.

Dreams are more or less the state of repeating the messages that are picturised in our mind in a way that could be realistic/fantasy....since our mind is the factor behind the initiation of dreams...it is also open to communication when these happens which is why the old saying that spirits can actually communicate to you in your dreams...even psychiatrists sometimes make you sleep and try to make your mind repeat this messages stored in them for hope of finding the problem or the cause.

[nms]

A more broader saying would be that anything that happens in this world involves maths.

There is also another type of experience called the outer body experience where the soul will visit another world or place during a deep sleep..this is not death but this has happened before when the soul actually leaves the body to see another place in which certain accounts by people have stated that the description of the place the soul visited is very true. I believe this is initiated when the mind is in a very sleepy state or is in extremely deep thoughts/vibrations during sleep.

I haven't read about this outer body experience before.I was believing that it would be a dream state.

[Shakthiprabha.]

I think those experiences may be ILLUSION? OR HALLUCINATION?

hey gumiruttukku poga thaan ivlooo effort aa?

If its dark and black and why should I go to a state which is so gloomy :roll:

then why do they call god as JYOTHIRMAYA?

[nms]

At present I dont know the answer why they call so.I will ask someone and get you the answer.

Why do u think that dark and black is gloomy?
Black is beautiful.
"Karuppae Azhagu - Avvai."

Naam irundha karuvarai - Gum Iruttu
Kovilgalil Garbagrahamum iruttaga thaan irukkum.
Sutha veliyum iruttaga thaan vulladhu.

May be, naam velichathukku niraya madhippu koduppadhaal "Jyothirmayam" enru solli irukkalaam.

Origin of sound is from Silence(Mounam)
and
Origin of Light is from utter Darkness.

[Shakthiprabha.]

light I am told is ABSENSE OF DARKNESS.
so, I suppose its basically only darkness which prevails.

:cry:

.... I am not very happy with this. :cry:

lets c.

[Hulkster]

Ever since humans have grown to grasp the world, they try to think of many reasons of their creation,their life and the purpose and at the same time try to have many impressions about their creator.

Paramatma,almighty,the omnipresent one and tons of impressions,theories about GOD have appeared.

GOD is just GOD...what GOD is,What GOD does,Why GOD created us is something that cannot be analysed...it is best that we see GOD as GOD and pray to him...because that is the only thing he requires from us.

SP akka it is not illusion or hallucination...hallucination is when the mind goes into a state of rapid complicated emotions where it is forced to process to the person something unexpected..shocking.

As for the outer body experience,you can say it is more of the mind or soul communicating by itself to the surroundings.

[Shakthiprabha.]

Why should we pray? When god is nothing but science?
I am god ! So why do I pray?

hmm... mayu be u are true reg outer body exp.

[Hulkster]

Off topic...SP akka when we look at astrology,jyothirsam and many theories about GOD..each religion's depiction of how humans should preach GOD...i actually feel we have complicated what GOD said and created alot of theories and put this as religious practices.

What i feel is that it is just us Humans and GOD presiding over us. What GOD would have wanted was us to be good and do good to others and pray to him....things like practise this were never said by him but rather complicated by humans. As for the theories of GOD..instead of looking at GOD as simply as someone who is all powerful and our creator,our protector and destroyer we have complicated GOD by giving alot of analogies about him.

As for me, i just pray to GOD as GOD with no focus on the analogies theorised on him and just be who i am instead of complicating myself with religious theories..that is enough.

[Shakthiprabha.]

I dont believe in religion too hulk.

God is in me. Maya within me is preventing to understand that.

Religion guides me to vanish that maya and reawch the state of my true nature akin or similar to the state of god.

Praying is good. When we know, we tread in righteous path, i think thats the greatest service we do to humanity.

nothing else is needed to know as right and wrong.

[Hulkster]

Yes...GOD is in everyone of us..it is only us who search for him when he is within us...keeping our breath and reading our mind when nobody else does....there is no Maya or anything...(Maya is another theory but i will leave it there for now)...think simply...just think of it as our own misunderstanding..naivety that is preventing us from reaching GOD. By trying to think of such theories, we will only get immersed into more theories and complicate a very simple thing...:)..seri ithu engaeyae vittudovom..let others talk about their own experiences.

[Shakthiprabha.]

our own misunderstanding is what I said as maya (nothing like a sheath clouding ur real self)

hmmmmm we shall leave it.

When I was 18, I went blank once. I am not sure if u can call it that.

I had to take my granny to my uncle's house. I had listend to a god bhajan just before that.

While travelling, I saw all around me, I conversed, I was aware........... yet I was blank.

It was nice. I cant quite explain.

[nms]

GOD is just GOD...what GOD is,What GOD does,Why GOD created us is something that cannot be analysed...it is best that we see GOD as GOD and pray to him...because that is the only thing he requires from us.
.

What is God has been explained scientifically.And there was no creation,only evolution.
But why this evoluion is still being unexplained - we have to satisfy with ourselves as It's all His Holy Plays (Thiruvilayaadalghal).

Prayer is a form of Auto-sugesstion.

[narayanan]

Hmm...the title sounds quite abstract. I am not a spiritual or religious person. To my understanding, I think conciousness is just a mind state and death is something physical. Dont quite get what way you are looking at the topic.

SP,
went blank :o you mean without any thoughts ? or temporary memory loss range'ku solreengala ;)

[Shakthiprabha.]

narayan

:shock: :evil:

without thoughts. :roll:

nms,

evolution is what it is. Why it happened is SCIENCE.
Matter in any form keeps changing. thats how all this evolution etc I suppose

[nms]

our own misunderstanding is what I said as maya (nothing like a sheath clouding ur real self)

hmmmmm we shall leave it.

When I was 18, I went blank once. I am not sure if u can call it that.

I had to take my granny to my uncle's house. I had listend to a god bhajan just before that.

While travelling, I saw all around me, I conversed, I was aware........... yet I was blank.

It was nice. I cant quite explain.

Well,Maya..........

If I want to do an act...say studying which will be very helpful for my career development. But I am getting distracted by Tv or something else.This is Maya,"those thoughts that distract us and take us to a path that is away from GOD." These are a result of previous deeds.

Similarly,While getting distracted something within me tells me - Hey,you have to study for your exams and you are watching something that is of no use to you and wasting your time.This consciousness within us is GOD.

Usually Maya wins,but we have to practice our mind such that the inner 'I' wins.

[narayanan]

sorry'nga..just kidding ;)

I guess I do get that when I dont sleep properly or when someone disturbs when I'm deeply in thought on something. Guess thats a mind state similar to sleeping with eyes wide open :roll:

[Shakthiprabha.]

nms

correct me if i am wrong.

maya is IDENTIFYING urself as A SEPERATE entity with ego, desire, etc

if u see dwaitham like

sorrow, happiness
fame, defame
fear, bravery

and react differently then U ARE SUBJECTED TO MAYA.

A person who has relieved himself from maya, would be absolutely neutral in any kinda surroundings and emotions.

[nms]

nms

correct me if i am wrong.

maya is IDENTIFYING urself as A SEPERATE entity with ego, desire, etc

if u see dwaitham like

sorrow, happiness
fame, defame
fear, bravery

and react differently then U ARE SUBJECTED TO MAYA.

A person who has relieved himself from maya, would be absolutely neutral in any kinda surroundings and emotions.

Sorry Shakthi.I am unaware of these all.
Let me think about only Consciousnes that I know. LOL

[Shakthiprabha.]

:)