HINDU RITUALS AND ROUTINES - WHY DO WE FOLLOW THOSE?

[bingleguy]

Thanks Sudhaamaa sir ! I am really overwhelmed by ur post ! :-)

[Nakeeran]

What about animal sacrifice which was followed in Yagnas / homams earlier

The apparent reasoning seems to be that the sacrifice will please the Gods & they will shower with blessings ?

When God has created this world only to live , why this unholy killing of fellow living beings ?

I know this UYIR BALI is prevalent in Hinduism .

Pl enlighten

[thamizhvaanan]

And I also question the absoluteness of these Code of conducts. On what rights do they exist as irrevocable.

[Sudhaama]

.
.YAGA-BALI.. Killing Goats for Yagas JUSTIFIED?


What about animal sacrifice which was followed in Yagnas / homams earlier

The apparent reasoning seems to be that the sacrifice will please the Gods & they will shower with blessings ?

When God has created this world only to live , why this unholy killing of fellow living beings ?

I know this UYIR BALI is prevalent in Hinduism .

Pl enlighten

Very Good Question Dear Nakeera,

Nowhere in Vedas or Upanishads or any Hindu-Scriptures or Saasthras, Meat or Flesh of any sort is prescribed to be offered to Gods... through Yagas and Homas.. as a Ritual.

... Nor such Non-Saathveeka foods are permissible as Bali-dhaana to Gods..

But No doubt, it was the prevalent practice for several centuries in the age-old days...

Sankaracharya corrected such a non-sensical justification.

Prior to Sankaracharya, the Lord Buddha was the first Pioneer to stop this inhuman practice, under the justification of Non-Violence.

Why ? How? Under what justification it was practised?

In Veda, the main Text for performing Yagjna and Yaaga, the terminology...

... AJAM AAHUTHI SAMARPAYAAMI... was understood as the Goat-flesh to be offered in the Homa-fire...

...because one of the meanings for the word AJAHA is "Goat"..

When Sankaracharya noticed this funny interpretation and justification, he questioned the Pandits...

(1) No doubt one of the meanings for the word "Ajaha" is Goat. But does it match with the context.. which is highly holy.. that too to God? Is Goat-flesh holy in any way? Does Saasthras say so anywhere?

(2) Geetha and Yagjna-Saasthras specifically stipulate that only Saathveeka foods are to be offered in Homas. Is Goat-flesh a Saathveeka food. No. It is a Thaamasic food.

(3) Nowhere in Saasthras it authorises you to kill one life and offer it to God. It is a Great Sin and an INHUMAN-PRACTICE...

... sullying the Sanctity of Yaagas... which nonsensical offering adds up sins only.

Then what is the correct meaning of the word relevant to the context?

Another meaning of the word AJAHA is... "That which has no Life but is not Dead"

... so to say...the Paddy-Hay having No Rice-Grain (Seed).. in Tamil it is called CHAAVI... which is meant by Vedas and Saasthras.

.. So You have to offer in the Homas only the freshly harvested Hay born with No Grains... rather EMPTY HUSKS...

...and Not any Living-beings... including Goat.

The then Gupta-king honoured the advice of Sankaracharya and it was duly corrected since then.

Buddhists highly lauded Sankaracharya and named him as "PRACHCHANNA BUDDHA"... meaning as the Buddha-awathaara

Then what is Bali-dhaana?..

...Why Goats and such other Animals or Birds are killed in front of some Temples... and offered to certain deities, especially for Amman and Kali?.. even now-a-days?

... Do the Hindu-Saasthras authorise such practices?

It is another Question... to be answered later.
.

[bingleguy]

Absolutely Ys .... It is true the practice has been followed for centuries together ...

A little mis-interpretation can lead us to a sinful situation :shock: My GOD ! we really need to be very careful before we interpret something ....

Ys... it was Sankaracharya who questioned the same and even advised ppl to refrain from it ...

In no way killing or sacrificing another being is agreed or accepted ! It is really inhuman to practice those ....

Thanks for the inputs Sudhamaa sir ....

Thamizh ... can u be a little elaborative on ur question !

[Rohit]

Aachaaram; Anushtaanam; Archaka; Atma; Bed-affairs; Bishop; Ceremonial rites; Christianity; Customs; Devotees; Devotion; Faith; Fakir; Graha-Pariharas; Gurukkal; Holy; Homas; Imam; Islam; Japam; Orthodoxy; Poojari; Purohits; Religious; Rituals; Sanctity of karma; Soul; Spiritual pursuits; Tapam; Vedas; Vedic pursuit; Vedic-pandits; Yagnas.

The Orthodoxical customs of a Christian Bishop may perhaps be incredible or funny or ridiculous in the views of some Non-Christian.

...and may be similarly in case of an Islamic fakir or Imam... in the views of any Non-muslim.
Exactly that is what the crux of the matter is. All these beliefs are just that, self-contradictory, self-defeating and mutually contradictory to one another; there is no consistent, universal truth in any of them. All of them are devoid of reality and truth; forget altogether about any of them be capable of touching even a glimpse of The Ultimate Truth and Ultimate Reality.


Better such loose comments as of Mr Rohit, do not recur in future.
Unlike you, my dear Sudhaama, I am absolutely incapable of offering my heedless support to such blind beliefs as expressed in your posts and disseminate self-deceptive rituals, fallacies and lies. I can only express evidences and facts, and you yourself have found them as degenerative as they really are; for they are corroborated and verified by two authoritative sources as well as by the original verses, which I can post if requested.

Nonetheless, I am really sorry if the truth conveyed in my post has, in any way, disturbed anybody's emotional and sentimental balance.

I shall leave it entirely up to the people, including you, to draw whatever conclusions they wish to draw.

Thank you!

:D :) :thumbsup:

[Selvan]

Rohit :rotfl: :rotfl:

Are you suggesting me to convert to Sadam and Bin Laden's religion? :lol:

Why do you make it so easy to dismiss whatever you as nonsense? :)

[thamizhvaanan]

[tscii:f24ede6058]From another forum:

Animal sacrifice is very clear in the Vedas as a part of the rituals. The Rig Veda has several very clear references to animal sacrifices. In a reference to the sacrifice of a goat it says (1.162.2) “The dappled goat goes straight to heaven, bleating to the place dear to Indra and to Pusan.” In one of the hymns to the horse (1.162.9-11) it says, “What part of the steed’s flesh the fly does not eat or is left sticking to the post or hatchet, or to the slayer’s hands and nails adheres, among the Gods, too may all this be with thee. Food undigested steaming from his belly and any odor of raw flesh that remains, let the immolators set in order and dress the sacrifice with perfect cooking. What from thy body which with fire is roasted when thou art set upon the spit distills let not that lie on earth or grass neglected, but to the longing Gods let all be offered.” As well, the nonb-vegetarian aspect is clear that when this horse was sacrificed, it was then distributed to those who “were eagerly waiting as the meat was tested with a trial fork and then distributed (Rig 1.162.12ff.).”
The Yajur Veda contains many more references to animal sacrifices, clear and often repeated references to animal sacrifices, mainly in association with the full moon rite, the Soma sacrifice and its supplement. There is an entire section of the Yajur devoted to optional animal sacrifices (ii.1)
The flesh of the victim was offered in part as a burnt offering, in part eaten by the priests (who were not vegetarians; cf. the statement by Keith in the Harvard Oriental Series, Vol 18, Motilal Banarsidas, Delhi, Arthur Berriadale Keith Vol I, p. cvii).
Here are a few clear examples of animal sacrifices in the Yajur Veda (The Black Yajur, Vol I, Banarsidas, Delhi, A.B. Keith):
“To the Asvins he sacrifices a dusky, to Sarasvati a ram, to Indra a bull”
(Yajur 1.8.21.e)
“He who hates us and whom we hate, here do I cut off his neck…” (Yajur
1.3.1.c)
The latter one a reference to the symbolic and protecting nature of the animal sacrifice that the sacrificer receives.
Sacrifice was done with several views. First there was simply the gift-offering. There is also a sense in which the sacrifice gives power or a way of spiritually carrying out something through the sacrifice such as the severing of the heads of enemies through the gods. Sacrifice is seen as a way of pleasing the gods and gaining their favor in contrast to those who do not sacrifice (e.g. Rig 1.110.7 “those who pour no offering forth”). In the Soma offering it is the priests offering the gods the juice that gives them pleasure and strength to win wealth and help from the gods for those who offer the Soma (cf. Rig 1.107 and 108).
Sacrifice gains spiritual favor and ascendancy in divinity. The Ribhus gained immortality through their zealous sacrificing (Rig 1.110.4). Sacrifice was to endue the sacrificer with power and wealth from the gods (Rig 1.111.2).[/tscii:f24ede6058]

[Rohit]

Are you suggesting me to convert to Sadam and Bin Laden's religion? :lol:
Whatever theistic religion you may wish to follow, it is entirely up to your choice. It would make zilch of a difference if you convert to other theistic religion; as they all are absolutely nonsensical.

At core, all theistic religions are dogmatic and breed fundamentalism and fanaticism of one form or another. Therefore, it is entirely up to you; I am of no use to you there, I am afraid.


Why do you make it so easy to dismiss whatever you as nonsense? :)
Simply because, nonsense must be dismissed from its roots to make sense.

:D :) :thumbsup:

[Raghu]

Can some1 pls tel me the significance of wearing a Naamam on the forehead?? I know wearing Vibuthi means , your life will end up in Ashes, but naamam???

[anbu_kathir]

>>>Can some1 pls tel me the significance of wearing a Naamam on the forehead?? I know wearing Vibuthi means , your life will end up in Ashes, but naamam???

I think the ashes explanation was someone's common sense idea.

Mystically, any vermillion on the forehead is supposed to activate the Ajna Chakra, which is commonly touted to be the point of concentration of the Life force ( or something like that, several forms of meditation revolve around concentrating on this point between the eyebrows, where the Ajna is located ) . It is also said that using vermillion provides a certain degree of protection against external hypnosis.

The Ajna is the Chakra of 6th order in the 7 chakra system ( located along the spinal cord ) of the Kundalini Yoga system, which involves in raising the Kundalini ( also known as the Serpent power ) from the base Muladhara to the topmost Sahasrara chakra.

Love and Light.

[Sudhaama]

.
.Significance of NAAMAM or VIBOOTHI on Forehead.


>>>Can some1 pls tel me the significance of wearing a Naamam on the forehead?? I know wearing Vibuthi means , your life will end up in Ashes, but naamam???

I think the ashes explanation was someone's common sense idea.

Mystically, any vermillion on the forehead is supposed to activate the Ajna Chakra, which is commonly touted to be the point of concentration of the Life force ( or something like that, several forms of meditation revolve around concentrating on this point between the eyebrows, where the Ajna is located ) . It is also said that using vermillion provides a certain degree of protection against external hypnosis.

The Ajna is the Chakra of 6th order in the 7 chakra system ( located along the spinal cord ) of the Kundalini Yoga system, which involves in raising the Kundalini ( also known as the Serpent power ) from the base Muladhara to the topmost Sahasrara chakra.

Love and Light.

God is mainly identified as the Only Super-might (Omnipotent) who has no BEGINNING nor End... (Aadhi Antham illaa Naayaka)

So the Vedic devotee constantly keeps in mind symbolically that Supreme power... my PROTECTOR GOD... my Master is ruling over me...

... and I bow down to my INVINCIBLE Savior... Guardian and Constant-watcher of my deeds..

.. and I am subject to His Commands.. being His devotee humble Servant.

So as His Symbol(similar to the National Flag for the Nation)... I wear this Philosophical Image.. at my Entry-point for my Soul (Forehead is the Entrance to access the Inner-Soul)

Why Naamam or Viboothi.?

In Earthly Life anything and everything originates either from Water or Earth... and...

Anything and everything ends up either as Ash or Smoke.

So Saivites give priority to the End of Life more than the Birth on Earth... INDEFINITENESS OF EXISTENCE...

...for constant Remembrance... during every moment of Thought Speach and Action..

... such that the devotee does not deviate from the God's Law on Creations.

So they wear the Ash... the Substance of EXTREME / FINAL END.. picturously all over the main centres of the Body...

..especially on the Forehead.. the SOUL- GATE.

Ash well suites them because the Lord Siva has smeared the Ash all over His body...

... due to His Constant dancing in the Cremation Ground...and

.. He is called the SAMHAARA MOORTHI... the Destroyer God.

Whereas... Vaishnavites give priority ... out of these two... for the Birth on Earth..

...want to constantly remember that they are born for a Specific purpose .. as HUMANS..

.. which Law of God... they should not deviate from... but strictly abide to.

...and this must be made as the LAST BIRTH..by their constant adherence to the Vedic stipulations..

.. ensuring the due clearance of the past Karmas... without supplementing any SINS anew...

So they wear the Origin-Symbol...EARTH + WATER.. all over the main centres of the body...

... especially on the Forehead...the SOUL-GATE.

As a sacred custom...Saivites touch the holy Smoke and gather the Ash emanating from the divine Karpoora-Haarathi...

...and apply on their Eyes... regarding it as the Sacred Purifactor for the Soul.

Whereas as a Custom... Vaishnavites do not give importance nor the priority for the Smoke...

...but however worship the SACRED JOTHI with Smoke... without touching it.
.

[gayatri yanamandra]

Good one sudhama garu , thank you!

[Arthi]

Sudhamaji's post

Whereas as a Custom... Vaishnavites do not give importance nor the priority for the Smoke...

...but however worship the SACRED JOTHI with Smoke... without touching it.
=================================

Sudhama ji cld u plz explain why Vaishnavites worship sacred Jothi without touching it?

Good posts Sudhama ji :notworthy:

[bingleguy]

I wear this Philosophical Image.. at my Entry-point for my Soul (Forehead is the Entrance to access the Inner-Soul)

Absolutely :thumbsup:

[pradheep]

http://sakthifoundation.org/Hindu-Rituals.pdf

click the above link to read why we do rituals by swami chinmayanandaji. Most of our questions are answered there.

[Sudhaama]

Sudhamaji's post

Whereas as a Custom... Vaishnavites do not give importance nor the priority for the Smoke...

...but however worship the SACRED JOTHI with Smoke... without touching it.
=================================

Sudhama ji cld u plz explain why Vaishnavites worship sacred Jothi without touching it?

Good posts Sudhama ji :notworthy:

There are TWO MAIN WAYS of Expression of Bhakthi (Devotion)... Both are acceptable to God of any Cult.

One is ... Your Physical-expression forgetting yourselves... out of Devotional Fervour.

Another means is...Even under Fervour... Not forgetting the Self... ensuring Soulful SELF-REALISATION...

... that after all, I am your Dependant-Devotee... the too smallest out of all the Smalls... the Least insignificant ... Worst Sinner..

... standing before you, my affectionate Protector, the Greatest amongst the Greats...

... the Diametrically Opposite in all and every respects...

... by Quality-Standards, Potentialities, Life-Worth and Universal Status.

I have come to you... to express my Gratitude for the good parts of my Life-result because of YOU ONLY...

...while accepting the Darker side of my Life... caused by Karmas... because of me the Doer only.

I believe I am qualified to seek your Pardon... because of my SELF-REALISATION...

... especially for my CONFESSION.. and Consciencious present Life...

...which is your intention and purpose of my present birth as the Supreme Creature of highest Wisdom and Greatest Soul-might.

So I worship this SACRED JOTHI... seeking your benign grace...

... while refraining from touching it.. I being unqualified for it...being the Worst Sinner...

... opposite to your GREATEST SACRED.

However Oh God! my Great... Father /Guide/ Lover / Friend / Master / Family-member or the like amongst my varied choices...

... Kindly PARDON ME... please shower your grace to prevent further onslaughts of Karmas on my future events and cirmustances...

Let my Soul get purified by your Dharsna and by my worshipping you alongside this SACRED JOTHI."

So thinks a Vaishnavite and expresses his devotion by Silent action

Whereas a Saivite... forgetting self, out of Fervour... touches the
SACRED JOTHI...

... to get his Soul purified by the Destroyer God Siva and allied Forms of deities... by means of CLOSEST ACCESS.

In brief the respective expression suits for... One Supreme God distributed in many Deities... Saiva- approach... as well as for..

All Gods within One COMPOSITE DEITY... the Vaishnava approach.

There are Two ways of Dispelling Darkness.

One by DRIVING OUT THE DARKNESS... Savite approach.

Another way... INCREASE THE BRIGHTNESS... Vaishnavite approach..

...which eventually makes the Darkness to run away of its own accord.
.

[crazy]

Significance of viboothi and/ or naamam :thumbsup:

Thank you Sudhaama Ayya :notworthy:

[NOV]

another version: naamam is also known as thiruman or holy soil (viboodhi is thiruneer - holy ash).
those who cremate their dead, apply ash while those who bury, apply thiruman.
both signify stephen covey's principle: begin with the end in mind. :D

[bingleguy]

another version: naamam is also known as thiruman or holy soil (viboodhi is thiruneer - holy ash).

those who cremate their dead, apply ash while those who bury, apply thiruman.
both signify stephen covey's principle: begin with the end in mind. :D

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[NOV]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:yeah, but that does not mean you should keep on looking at your forehead all the time. :poke:

[bingleguy]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:yeah, but that does not mean you should keep on looking at your forehead all the time. :poke:
:shock: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Sudhaama]

.
Thirumanh.. Neerhu.. Vibhoothi : Meanings


another version: naamam is also known as thiruman or holy soil (viboodhi is thiruneer - holy ash).
those who cremate their dead, apply ash while those who bury, apply thiruman.
both signify stephen covey's principle: begin with the end in mind. :D

There is NO SUCH A CUSTOM... linked with Naamam or Vibhoothi.

For example, Vaishnava Mudaliars and Naickers... in general don't cremate but only bury the dead....

...whereas used to wear NAAMAM as per their Religious faith.

Viboothi for all the Saivites and Naamam for all the Vaishnavites... is categorically differentiated in practice...

...irrespective of any further Sub-divisions of the Society... or any other basis, except the yardstick as Vishnu-faith or Siva-faith.

What is meant by NEERHU?... or THIRUNEERHU... in Tamil?

"Mandhiram aavadhu Neerhu" says Saiva Thirumurhai.

"Neerhu Sevvae ida kaanhil Thirumaal Adiyaar"... says Thiruvaaymozhi.

Then can this word be meant as ASH only?... No. NEERHU means the Holy-Essence for symbolising Devotion...

... a Common Tamil-Name...applicable both for Vibhoothi and Naamam."

In fact the word of the commonman's usage as NAAMAM... is called THIRUMANH-KAAPPU by its users.

Thirumanh... because it is not the Common ordinary Earth of insignificant value... but the white-coloured SACRED EARTH SUBSTANCE...

... found in only Holy places... regarded highly by Vaishnavites

At one stage, when the previous Sub-Soil stock at different places exhausted... and there was dearth and scarcity for this Holy Earth

... during Ramanujacharya's Lifetime.. he prayed to Lord Narayana...

... which appeal resulted in his dream leading to surprise-finding of abundant quantity of Thirumanh soil at a new place in Karnataka... at the Melkote hills, from the Subsoil beneath...

...surrounding the NARAYANA IDOL discovered underground after digging deep.

He named that Idol as THIRU-NARAYANA and installed at the same hills... after building a new Temple, by the Tamilian Sculptors... and shaped a Village too... called THIRU-NARAYANA-PURAM.

THIRUMANH... means SACRED EARTH.

The word VIBHOOTHI means...GLORY.

The Holy-Ash is normally collected from Yaaga / Homa-Kundam...

... alternatively, by burning the Cow-dung... exclusively prepared for the purpose.

By applying Vibhoothi Ash... the devotee's Soul gets purified by its Sanctity.

The same effect... Thirumanh too graces... being equally Sacred...

... as well as a KAAPPU ... Protection
.

[podalangai]

another version: naamam is also known as thiruman or holy soil
I thought only the white bit of the naaman was called thiruman, so Naamam=Thiruman+Srichurnam.

[Sudhaama]

.
Significance of NAAMAM... Vadakalai and Thengalai.



another version: naamam is also known as thiruman or holy soil
I thought only the white bit of the naaman was called thiruman, so Naamam=Thiruman+Srichurnam.

Practically the word THIRUMANH is meant by the Common public....for the particular material... SACRED WHITE-CLAY...

...as also for... the White-part of the Holy Symbol...

... who have totally named it as NAAMAM.

But it is called as THIRUMANH-KAAPPU.. by its users....for the whole form including Sri-choornam.

The Red-line in centre called Sri-choornam signifies Lakshmi...

..while the White-image signifies the holy ONE FOOT of Lord Narayana ... in case of Vadakalai ( "U" Shape)..

...and it denotes His TWO FEET.. supported by the holy Lotus at bottom... on which Lakshmi also stands at centre... in case of Thengalai ("Y").

Thus on the whole, both the shapes signify... LAKSHMI-NARAYANA form.
.

[NOV]

I thought only the white bit of the naaman was called thiruman, so Naamam=Thiruman+Srichurnam.we call it thirusanam

[Shakthiprabha.]

Aachaaram; Anushtaanam; Archaka; Atma; Bed-affairs; Bishop; Ceremonial rites; Christianity; Customs; Devotees; Devotion; Faith; Fakir; Graha-Pariharas; Gurukkal; Holy; Homas; Imam; Islam; Japam; Orthodoxy; Poojari; Purohits; Religious; Rituals; Sanctity of karma; Soul; Spiritual pursuits; Tapam; Vedas; Vedic pursuit; Vedic-pandits; Yagnas.

The Orthodoxical customs of a Christian Bishop may perhaps be incredible or funny or ridiculous in the views of some Non-Christian.

...and may be similarly in case of an Islamic fakir or Imam... in the views of any Non-muslim.
Exactly that is what the crux of the matter is. All these beliefs are just that, self-contradictory, self-defeating and mutually contradictory to one another; there is no consistent, universal truth in any of them. All of them are devoid of reality and truth; forget altogether about any of them be capable of touching even a glimpse of The Ultimate Truth and Ultimate Reality.



Rohit u are PEREFECTLY right in what u say :thumbsup: ...except, :P

you cannot ask a person of different mind set and maturity to understand ULTIMATE REALITY or WANT TO KNOW ultimate reality

They need to tread step by step.

These things are needed to a larger extent to achive th at mature mentality to live without these in search of ultimate truth :)

They MAY NOT have glipmse of truth... but THEY WOULD GRAB YOUR HAND AND take u much towards reaching the truth :?

aint not :?

[Rohit]

Aachaaram; Anushtaanam; Archaka; Atma; Bed-affairs; Bishop; Ceremonial rites; Christianity; Customs; Devotees; Devotion; Faith; Fakir; Graha-Pariharas; Gurukkal; Holy; Homas; Imam; Islam; Japam; Orthodoxy; Poojari; Purohits; Religious; Rituals; Sanctity of karma; Soul; Spiritual pursuits; Tapam; Vedas; Vedic pursuit; Vedic-pandits; Yagnas.

The Orthodoxical customs of a Christian Bishop may perhaps be incredible or funny or ridiculous in the views of some Non-Christian.

...and may be similarly in case of an Islamic fakir or Imam... in the views of any Non-muslim.
Exactly that is what the crux of the matter is. All these beliefs are just that, self-contradictory, self-defeating and mutually contradictory to one another; there is no consistent, universal truth in any of them. All of them are devoid of reality and truth; forget altogether about any of them be capable of touching even a glimpse of The Ultimate Truth and Ultimate Reality.
Rohit u are PEREFECTLY right in what u say :thumbsup: ...except, :P

you cannot ask a person of different mind set and maturity to understand ULTIMATE REALITY or WANT TO KNOW ultimate reality

They need to tread step by step.

These things are needed to a larger extent to achive that mature mentality to live without these in search of ultimate truth :)

Thank you SP for your critically acknowledging post.

:) :thumbsup:

[Shakthiprabha.]

Rohit, :) :D

No intention to critically analyse ur post.

I do UNDERSTAND PERFECTLY what u say AND CONQUER with it to a great extent:)

just my analysis placing myself in someone else's shoes .

cheers :)

[bingleguy]

Hindu Rituals and Routines.

Q: What do they signify?

A: Nothing more than sheer stupidity.

Rohit ... can u explain ur standpoint? .... Requesting you to be specific when u are trying to point out things .....
Thanks dear Bingleguy for showing such inquisitiveness.

Rohit ... can u explain ur standpoint? .... Requesting you to be specific when u are trying to point out things .....
Of course yes; you are most welcome.

Let me begin with what 'ritual' means:

Ritual means 'vidhi' or 'ceremonial procedure', which is essentially a form of 'karma'; and therefore, it reflects "The way of thinking" and "The way of doing things" of a people.

As requested, let me recite only a few specific 'ceremonial procedures' from the list of many for everyone, including yourself, to absorb their meaning and then judge for themselves the level of imbecility inculcated in them.

1. If someone desires to achieve greatness, then in the northward passage of the Sun, on a lucky day of the waxing fortnight, he takes an Upasad vow lasting twelve days. Then he puts together all the herbs called 'fruits' in a cup or dish made of pipal-wood. He sweeps up and smears the clarified butter in the usual way. Then under a masculine constellation, he prepares the stirred mixture and makes an offering.

Hence, for the purpose, the ceremony called Mantha (paste) is being inculcated as a means to attaining greatness; for if greatness is attained, wealth follows as matter of course.

2. If, when a man is asleep or awake, and his seed is spilled; he should touch it, or recite over it:

"Whatever seed of mine is spilled on earth, or has flowed into plants, or into the waters, I take back that seed. May my potency, my energy, my luck, come back to me."

3. If man sees his reflection in water, he should look at himself in the water and recite the following mantra over it "In me, be light, potency, goods, merit"

4. This is the beauty of women, when she has taken off her dirty cloths. So when she is glorious, having taken off her dirty cloths, the man should approach and invite her.

5. If she does not give him his desire, he should bribe her. If she still does not give him his desires, he should strike her with a stick or hand, saying, "with my potency, my glory, I take away your glory!" and she becomes inglorious.

6. If someone wishes, may a learned, famous son be born to me; one who goes to assemblies, a speaker of well-received words! May he learn all the Vedas! May he live a full span! The couple should have rice and meat of a vigorous bull that is capable of breeding - cooked and eat it with ghee; and they will be able to have one.

Rohit ..... i still feel that one say of urs still stands un answered ... i silenced myself initially bcoz i normally have not taken up a stand to force myself into arguments :-) particularly coz i am staunch follower of a supreme power :-) and i believe that one of the ways the supreme power is being felt >>>> to me is >>> Bhakthi ! I may not quote lines from the vedas to stand my point .... i may not argue on points with excerpts of ppls life ...... wat i may do is to share watever i understand and watever i perceive tat is true to my heart :-)

I wish i could ponder over ur quotes .... but i wish to go one by one :-)

[bingleguy]

As requested, let me recite only a few specific 'ceremonial procedures' from the list of many for everyone, including yourself, to absorb their meaning and then judge for themselves the level of imbecility inculcated in them.

A small request..... the quoted one could be a strong word and i hope u are mentioning it only for the ones that u are quoting .... :-) coz there are ppl who rigorously follow certain rituals ...... and unless n until it is proved to be non-scientific or not related to GOD ..... we should refrain from pointing them like this :-)

I know u would know that .... but :-) still that word disturbed me a little !

[bingleguy]

1. If someone desires to achieve greatness, then in the northward passage of the Sun, on a lucky day of the waxing fortnight, he takes an Upasad vow lasting twelve days. Then he puts together all the herbs called 'fruits' in a cup or dish made of pipal-wood. He sweeps up and smears the clarified butter in the usual way. Then under a masculine constellation, he prepares the stirred mixture and makes an offering.

Hence, for the purpose, the ceremony called Mantha (paste) is being inculcated as a means to attaining greatness; for if greatness is attained, wealth follows as matter of course.

2. If, when a man is asleep or awake, and his seed is spilled; he should touch it, or recite over it:

"Whatever seed of mine is spilled on earth, or has flowed into plants, or into the waters, I take back that seed. May my potency, my energy, my luck, come back to me."

3. If man sees his reflection in water, he should look at himself in the water and recite the following mantra over it "In me, be light, potency, goods, merit"

4. This is the beauty of women, when she has taken off her dirty cloths. So when she is glorious, having taken off her dirty cloths, the man should approach and invite her.

5. If she does not give him his desire, he should bribe her. If she still does not give him his desires, he should strike her with a stick or hand, saying, "with my potency, my glory, I take away your glory!" and she becomes inglorious.

6. If someone wishes, may a learned, famous son be born to me; one who goes to assemblies, a speaker of well-received words! May he learn all the Vedas! May he live a full span! The couple should have rice and meat of a vigorous bull that is capable of breeding - cooked and eat it with ghee; and they will be able to have one.

Can u tell me ... from where exactly are u quoting these from ?

[Rohit]

Rohit ..... i still feel that one say of urs still stands un answered ... i silenced myself initially bcoz i normally have not taken up a stand to force myself into arguments :-) particularly coz i am staunch follower of a supreme power :-) and i believe that one of the ways the supreme power is being felt >>>> to me is >>> Bhakthi ! I may not quote lines from the vedas to stand my point .... i may not argue on points with excerpts of ppls life ...... wat i may do is to share watever i understand and watever i perceive tat is true to my heart :-)

I wish i could ponder over ur quotes .... but i wish to go one by one :-)
Dear Bingleguy,
First of all, accept my hearty admiration for your honest and confessional post, irrespective of the validity of its contents.

:D :) :thumbsup:

[Rohit]

Can u tell me ... from where exactly are u quoting these from?
Though I did say I can post the sources if requested, but no one showed the courage of asking. I again admire you for your courage to come forward and ask for the sources. This is really healthy.

Here they are:

Source #1: Brhadaranyaka Upanishad with commentary by Sankaracarya

By Swami Madhavananda
Advaita Ashrama,
5 Dehi Entally Road,
Kolkata 700 014.

It contains original verses in Sanskrit, followed by their English translations.

Book VI, Chapter 4 comprises 28 of such verses

Source #2: The Upanishads, Penguin Books

Translated and edited by Valerie J. Roebuck

The book contains numerous Upanishads with explanatory notes at the end about the interpretations of original verses, including the interpretation given by Sankaracarya.

Brhadaranyaka Upanishad

Book VI, Chapter 4 comprises 28 of such verses

Also, I am fairly comfortable with Sanskrit scripts to the extent that allows me to verify the validity of various translations, and I found them essentially in agreement.

:D :) :thumbsup:

[bingleguy]

Rohit ..... :-)

Well, i would definitely ponder over the above said Upanishad ! :-)

well, one thing i am very strongly believing at is -> Upanishads were not written by mortals .... commentaries and deciphering them in English only is MORTAL ....

Lemme explain my standpoint .... We are very well aware of the incident when Sri AdiSankarar, after having bath, comes .... while on the way he meets a person - who was actually Lord Shiva .....
Sankarar says that he has just had bath and said he was madi and asked the person to move ..... The person replies "Whom do u want to move ? me or the truth in me" ....

This incident can be deciphered in 10 different ways ....

Some say this was the realization phase for Adishankara
Some say it was the leela of Lord SHiva to make ppl understand that there is nobody who is lower than the other ...
some can also say that this was a lesson to AdiShankara as a mortal ...

a simple say has ten different views and the way of deciphering things .....

probably it depends on wat we decipher ..... i can take this as realization phase for Adi Sankara .... and u can say that it is a lesson taught to him ....... both cant be perceived the same ...... :-)

The dirty cloths of a women quoted above would not be the real human cloths that a person wear, but those dirty thoughts .....this is wat i would perceive from the verse and not the literal translated meaning :-) Upanishads dont say things directly -> well there should be a reason for that not to be straight .......

COmmentaries and Translations are bound to be different ..... but one thing i still say to u tat i have to go thru them is :-) for the fact that u said that u knew sanskrit and i believe then u should not be depending on just the commentaries ...

I seriously would like to understand the Upanishad quoted above .... :-) in its original form .....

[Shakthiprabha.]

hmm...

'Ajaha' - As pointed out by sudhama

was a clear example, and states, HOW WRONGLY things could be deciphered FOR AGES!

:? :?

[Rohit]

HOW WRONGLY things could be deciphered FOR AGES!:? :?
In that case, the charge of erroneous deciphering must be extended to everything that is contained in the entire volume of Hindu scriptures, there is no room left for making any wishful exceptions as per one’s liking. Even the composers of these scriptures cannot be exempted from the charge. If such is the desolated state of affairs with Hindu scriptures, no interpretation can be held valid; and the entire volume of Hindu scriptures becomes devoid of any meaning. Such scriptures must be discarded as utterly incomprehensible, ambiguous, useless and untenable extravagance like the babbles of a child. And like the adults around this child are helplessly left with no option but to keep guessing exactly what the child might have intended to say. And as it is truly the case, each such guesses can be as correct or incorrect as any other guesses. There is no other way, I am afraid.

:D :) :thumbsup:

[Rohit]

I seriously would like to understand the Upanishad quoted above .... :-) in its original form .....
Yes dear Bingleguy, I strongly suggest you to do that.

:D :) :thumbsup:

[Shakthiprabha.]

[tscii:d077915968]

HOW WRONGLY things could be deciphered FOR AGES!:? :?
In that case, the charge of erroneous deciphering must be extended to everything that is contained in the entire volume of Hindu scriptures, there is no room left for making any wishful exceptions as per one’s liking. Even the composers of these scriptures cannot be exempted from the charge. If such is the desolated state of affairs with Hindu scriptures, no interpretation can be held valid; and the entire volume of Hindu scriptures becomes devoid of any meaning. Such scriptures must be discarded as utterly incomprehensible, ambiguous, useless and untenable extravagance like the babbles of a child. And like the adults around this child are helplessly left with no option but to keep guessing exactly what the child might have intended to say. And as it is truly the case, each such guesses can be as correct or incorrect as any other guesses. There is no other way, I am afraid.

:D :) :thumbsup:

DECIPHERED WRONG by READERS.

not THE ORIGIN or the LEADERS.

The same holds good to EVERY SCRIPTURES of every OTHER BELIEF.
No single BELIEF can be ISOLATED here. Every belief has CHILDISH babbles TO SUIT childish ppl of any belief. Every belief has the PROBABILITY of being COMEPTELY WRONGLY GUESSED

Stong thick roots of belief of hindu scriptures (than MOST OTHER beliefs) has spread wide and IS STILL FOLLOWED by numerous intellectuals, CANNOT BE FOLLOWED IF WAS MERE A JOKE or CHILDISH BABBLES. Those words are TOO STRONG to be let loose in haste rohit. :)

Hindu scriptures talks AND LEADS AND CARES every PERSON according to their awareness level.

Hindu scriptures are so vast, pointing out WHAT LITTLE YOU DID, without probably UNDERSTANDING the CONTEXT , or UNDERSTANDING THE PURPOSE AND THE TYPE OF PPL ITS TARGETTED or intended for would not CRUMBLE IT DOWN.

Atleast some beliefs HAS ITS BASE AKIN to that of hinduscriptutres or is CLOSELY RELATED to hindu scriptures. If EVERY hindu scripture is false babbles, THEN OTHER BELIEFS crumble down WITHOUT PROPER BASE AT ALL. :D

:D :wink: :thumbsup:
[/tscii:d077915968]

[Rohit]

[tscii:869f333d2b]

HOW WRONGLY things could be deciphered FOR AGES!:? :?
In that case, the charge of erroneous deciphering must be extended to everything that is contained in the entire volume of Hindu scriptures, there is no room left for making any wishful exceptions as per one’s liking. Even the composers of these scriptures cannot be exempted from the charge. If such is the desolated state of affairs with Hindu scriptures, no interpretation can be held valid; and the entire volume of Hindu scriptures becomes devoid of any meaning. Such scriptures must be discarded as utterly incomprehensible, ambiguous, useless and untenable extravagance like the babbles of a child. And like the adults around this child are helplessly left with no option but to keep guessing exactly what the child might have intended to say. And as it is truly the case, each such guesses can be as correct or incorrect as any other guesses. There is no other way, I am afraid.

:D :) :thumbsup:

DECIPHERED WRONG by READERS.

not THE ORIGIN or the LEADERS.

The same holds good to EVERY SCRIPTURES of every OTHER BELIEF.
No single BELIEF can be ISOLATED here. Every belief has CHILDISH babbles TO SUIT childish ppl of any belief

Stong thick roots of belief of hindu scriptures (than MOST OTHER beliefs) has spread wide and IS STILL FOLLOWED by numerous intellectuals, CANNOT BE FOLLOWED IF WAS MERE A JOKE or CHILDISH BABBLES. Those words are TOO STRONG to be let loose in haste rohit. :)

Hindu scriptures talks AND LEADS AND CARES every PERSON according to their awareness level.

Hindu scriptures are so vast, pointing out WHAT LITTLE YOU DID, without probably UNDERSTANDING the CONTEXT , or UNDERSTANDING THE PURPOSE AND THE TYPE OF PPL ITS TARGETTED or intended for would not CRUMBLE IT DOWN.

Atleast some beliefs HAS ITS BASE AKIN to that of hinduscriptutres or is CLOSELY RELATED to hindu scriptures. If EVERY hindu scripture is false babbles, THEN OTHER BELIEFS crumble down WITHOUT PROPER BASE AT ALL. :D

:D :wink: :thumbsup:
[/tscii:869f333d2b]

Like I said, that could be one of the many ways of guessing or justifying the babble. When it comes to letting either the strong words or irresolute words loose, the implications are the same as we are witnessing around us and also in the world. Irrespective of the level of awareness, one would still have to struggle as hard as a child to find ways to express justifiable words, I am afraid.

:D :) :thumbsup:

[Shakthiprabha.]

First of all, we need to understand, THIS BELIEF HAS ITS ORIGIN, MUCH MUCH BEHIND Than MOST CAN TRACE its roots.

These days nobody goes and reads SCRIPTURES to see how to coupulate and impregnate his wife.

wE GO to see doctors or consult practical methods.

Those were methods or deductions or mantras whatever practised where ITS VALUES WERE FOR PPL WHO LIVED ERAS AGO with different surroundings.

IT IS ONLY TO SEEK truth scriptures are refered here.

Not to verify the validity and expiry period of HOW CAN SOMEONE CONCEIVE and what to do for IMPOTENCY.

WE refer scriptures ONLY TO SEEK the truth.

Ofcourse we all know, TRUTH remains TRUTH despite of TIME ELAPSE. Validity of such scriptures Which talks about truth NEVER ELAPSE.

Whatever said and done, EVERY PERSON OF EVERY LEVEL OF AWARENESS, in any belief, would tread as a child only, to seek truth.

We may tread SLOWLY or at fast pace as we proceed, WE WOULD solve THE puzzle one by one and seek truth AND my BELIEF has EVERYTHING I NEED, to take me there.

:D :thumbsup:

[Rohit]

Dear SP,

Irrespective of all that, as a matter of good practice of verifying the so-called "truth" of such texts; may I suggest you too to get hold of the referenced Upanishad and try extracting the best possible meaning out of those verses in the best possible context? I assure you; you would struggle no lesser than any of the rest did, including the composers of those texts.

I wonder, when something that miserably fails to define "Truth", what chance has it got of leading one to that undefined "Truth"?

:D :) :thumbsup:

[pradheep]

Dear Sakthi Prabha
You are correct. Tyelenol a fever medicine comes with sweet flavors for children. A child does not have the matrurity to understand that it is a medicine. It looks at a colorful medicine and can wrongly interpret it as sweet and may consume it and have deliterious effects. This is why medicines are warned to be kept away from innocent children. Even if it is for children it is given under the supervision of the adult.

Same way scriptures is for the common man. Common man without the guidance of adult (guru) can wrongly interpret and have deliterious effects in the mind. This is why in our tradition we are strongly advised to read vedas under the guidance of a guru only otherwise any tom dick and hary will interpret it wrongly only like a child interpretting medicine for a candy.

[Shakthiprabha.]

I wonder, when something that miserably fails to define "Truth", what chance has it got of leading one to that undefined "Truth"?

:D :) :thumbsup:

Dear rohit,

something DOES NOT FAIL to define truth.

but...

someone FAIL in INTERPRETING truth.

It would lead to it, when U UNDERSTAND IT in its right sense.

:D :thumbsup:

pradeep,

I CONCUR with what u said here :)

[Rohit]

Dear rohit,
something DOES NOT FAIL to define truth.
Dear Shakthiprabha,

May I request you to provide that definition of Truth with reference to the context in question; and then show us all how it DOES NOT FAIL?


someone FAIL in INTERPRETING truth.
Can you also kindly show us all here how someone FAIL in INTERPRETING truth with reference to the same context in question.

I simply request you to prove me wrong concurrently on these two accounts. If you or anyone else can do that, I shall post no more. :)

Can you or anyone else do that?

According to the most powerful intellectual minds of the world, all ( :!: :?: ) have miserably failed in defining truth, all are miserably failing in defining truth and all may miserably fail in defining truth. If that wasn't the case, none of us would be arguing about it.

:D :) :thumbsup:

[Shakthiprabha.]

Dear rohit,
something DOES NOT FAIL to define truth.
Dear Shakthiprabha,

May I request you to provide that definition of Truth with reference to the context in question; and then show us all how it DOES NOT FAIL?


Dear Rohit,

The definition or GUIDANCE given in scriptures ONLY TAKES us there to experience it.

I can define the TASTE OF AN apple, 'ITS SWEET AND SOUR. Its red or green in color, it has thin skin' etc

THAT IS A DEFINITION TOO!

TO understand AN APPLE, one has to EAT IT or experience the joy.

LIKE WISE, DEFINITION can be GIVEN AS GUIDANCE.

U TALKING about UNDERSTANDING.


Truth IS RIGHT INSIDE all of us, all around, everywhere to find out.
Everything is its DIFFERENT FORM.

Its but vain TO SEARCH outside as bookish definition!

Truth can only be DEFINED to a vast extent by scriptires, IT TAKES THE PRACTIONERS effort to understand.

IT DEFINES truth by MAKING US EXPERIENCE truth.

'DEFINE' here is 'DEFINING enough' to trigger us EXPERIENCE IT.

When this context here is UNDERSTOOD wrong AND CONCLUDED WRONG by you, AS A BOOKISH DEFINITION, this shows us clearly how people of every level of awareness INTERPRET IT according to their convenience. :?

One that is EVERYWHERE, ALPERVADING, cannot BE defined IN as WORDS. It has to be EXPERIENCED.

THERE IS A difference between DEFINITION and UNDERSTANDING.

Can u provide A DEFINITION for truth from any other belief which u feel is COMPLETE enough?

Then we shall try and analyse, WHETHER this particular belief is FAILING OR NOT FAILING?

Also,

NO! I have NOT understood truth. I dont know if u have.
I BELIEVE, if I have understood, I WONT BE HERE talking about it.
:P


:D :thumbsup:

[Rohit]

Can u provide A DEFINITION for truth from any other belief which u feel is COMPLETE enough? :D :thumbsup:
There you go. That means you cannot define truth in its true sense but depend on your own experiences, which can have no more validity than anyone else's experiences. So, it all goes round a full circle all over again and comes down to individuals; and that leaves the scriptures (which are nothing but books containing words of others) with no greater weight or authority than anyone else's understanding or experiences, if you still prefer to call it that way; but not making the serious mistake of forgetting that they all are absolutely empirical in nature, making you an empirical realist. That is all there is to it, nothing more, nothing less.

:D :) :thumbsup:

[Shakthiprabha.]

Can u provide A DEFINITION for truth from any other belief which u feel is COMPLETE enough? :D :thumbsup:
There you go. That means you cannot define truth in its true sense but depend on your own experiences, which can have no more validity than anyone else's experience. So it all goes round a full circle all over again and comes down to individuals; and that leaves the scriptures with no greater weight or authority than anyone else's understanding or experinces, if you still prefer to call it that way; but not making the serious mistake of forgetting that they all are absolutely empirical in nature, making you an empirical realist. That is all there is to it, nothing more, nothing less.

:D :) :thumbsup:

Absolutely!

Scriptures are EMPIRICAL in nature, and ONE HAS TO tread and find out all by himself . Their awareness level and effort alone decides where they reach. The effort is theirs. Result is their's too.
( Whtever they find out! )

AND THATS WHY, it does not call upon me or anyone else too (unless they call upon someone as guru or guide) to intervene in a treader's belief, whether its false or otherwse.

LET HIM FIND OUT HIMSELF

:D :thumbsup:

[Rohit]

Absolutely!

Scriptures are EMPIRICAL in nature, and ONE HAS TO tread and find out all by himself . Their awareness level and effort alone decides where they reach. The effort is theirs. Result is their's too.
( Whtever they find out! )

AND THATS WHY, it does not call upon me or anyone else too (unless they call upon someone as guru or guide) to intervene in a treader's belief, whether its false or otherwse.

LET HIM FIND OUT HIMSELF

:D :thumbsup:
Not only scriptures but also one's understanding and/or experiences are empirical in nature, as you may well accept that fact too as there is no other way to experience. And as a matter of 'truth', the 'truth' you, or for that matter, anyone else may find cannot be detached from empirical experiences, simply because they ever remain as such, absolutely empirical.

So, having gone through a full circle and eventually declaring yourself as an empirical realist; you may ask yourself a serious question, on what base one can seriously consider the scriptures (which are nothing but books containing words of others) as the holder of truth, whatever that may mean in empirical terms, if people like you are still left searching for it?

In that case, I may well say, with equal if not more emphasis, that it is nothing but egocentric approach to look for the Ultimate Truth and Ultimate Reality from such subjective as well as contradictory internal experiences.

:D :) :thumbsup:

[bingleguy]

[tscii:6273f38cf3]

HOW WRONGLY things could be deciphered FOR AGES!:? :?
In that case, the charge of erroneous deciphering must be extended to everything that is contained in the entire volume of Hindu scriptures, there is no room left for making any wishful exceptions as per one’s liking.

:D :) :thumbsup:

No No No Rohit. This is not wat i meant...... i agree with ur point...i wasnt completely talking about all the deciphers could be wrong...My strong notion is that, any codes of life, explained in any religion is NOT gonna say about inhuman or insane things..... and I am very strong tht HINDUISM does not vouch for such things.......

When it gets deciphered from on language to the other ..... then this problem comes,...... tats the reason i told u that i wanted to understand the very meaning of the quote in its original form......

I again wish to stress that Upanishads were not recited by mortals..... they were deciphered and given a form in writing probably by mortals
[/tscii:6273f38cf3]

[bingleguy]

DECIPHERED WRONG by READERS.

not THE ORIGIN or the LEADERS.

:thumbsup:

Why do understanding of the humans vary .... ????

we are getting into all these aspects, only due to the reason that everything is getting converted to English :-)
Can we explain everything that sanskrit says -> with the same meaning in English .... ? am afraid ! it many not be possible.....

There can be a transliteration to Thirukkural in English .... ;-) but even that wouldnt have been possible without knowing the actual meaning in spoken thamizh :-) coz even for a person whos mother tongue thamizh, needs a teacher to teach and make him understand wat thirukkural means:-) !

even the great man, being a saint, has talked about Kaamathu Pal..... but based on that can we come to a any conclusion :-) ? NO ! absolutely not !

[bingleguy]

First of all, we need to understand, THIS BELIEF HAS ITS ORIGIN, MUCH MUCH BEHIND Than MOST CAN TRACE its roots.
Absolutely Ys ..... HINDUISM is one of the oldest religions and it is not the one that has grown recently ........ even when pondered they mean in sanskrit as Sanatana Dharma :-) and speaks Dharma only !

[pradheep]

Dear SP, BG
Years back i have written in this forum that no one can define anything. The definition is valid (understood) only when the conveyor and listner are in the same plane of experience and knowledge.

Last week I told my collague (German) about the most bitter neem. He wanted to know how bitter is it. He had not tasted anything bitter. he asked me, is it like amla (Indian gooseberry). I said no it is astringent. How can I describe bitterness of Neem. My another Indian colleague tried to define - vain. Both of us could understand because we have experienced it. Finally next day I got neem and had him experience it.
When senory things itself cannot be defined, then how about advaita or "Truth".

[bingleguy]

Absolutely TRUE Pradeep :clap:

[Rohit]

Looks like people are struggling too much even to understand what is meant by definition and of what the definition was requested for. Anyway, thank you for bringing apples, neem, amla, gooseberries and what not. :)

BTW, I do like apples, I enjoy the bitter smell of neem, and I love amla, when spiced with salt and chilly power. Thank you again for providing the demonstrative definition of "something" which I have been always fully aware of; and I have stated that quite clearly and often here and elsewhere and that too with clear evidences. This is just one more addition to the long list.

As a gesture of goodwill, let me extend a helping hand in return by providing a comprehensive definition of Advaita, i.e. the definition of "/Truth" in original Sanskrit verse as per the Mandukya Upanishad. Tough this definition is guaranteed to save you the painstaking labour of bringing so much food, it may put a light load on your cognitive ability that may be affordable.

Before beginning to read the definition, please get youself a nice lollipop. After ensuring the lollipop is absolutely free from any allergic contamination, slowly unwrap the lollipop. Have a good look at its shape, colour and any visual pattern on it. Shake it and check whether it makes any noise or not. Feel it; and then smell it. How do you feel now? Good? Good! Now take a deep breath and start to read the following definition while enjoying the mallow fruity flavour and sweet taste of the lollipop and associating the meaning of definition with the taste of sweetness of lollipop, transmitted by the taste buds on your tongue, which hopefully should be somewhere in your mouth, a part of your body.

Here is the Definition of Advaita:

nant:pragna n bahishpragna nomyat:pragna n pragnandhanan n pragna napragnam |
adrushtam-vyavharyam-grahyam-lakshanyam-chintyam-vyapdeshyam-ekatmpratya-yasarn- praptrochopashamn shant-shivmdait chaturth manayante sa atma sa vigneya: || 7 ||

As the definition is written in Roman script, those who think the Roman alphabets and resulting phonetics would corrupt the meaning of definition, they are strongly requested to refer to the Upanishad itself.

Now, if you are really clever, the above definition will not only save you the labour of shifting food products here and there; it may also save you the time and money of getting 'high' for the 'specific trance'. This will also help you realise not to waste so much of your energy and also the web space in desperate attempts of marketing a product that is already rejected by over 95% of the 'consumers', which obviously means, no one wants to buy it. Also, the definition is going to be as handy as an apple for those who may want to keep the "3 Pillars" as they really are while discussing in the other thread.

So, here it is, more than what you could ever bargain for.

Enjoy the definition.

:D :) :thumbsup:

[Shakthiprabha.]

Wow.. so u quote guidance/definition of so called truth from our belief which u dismissed as childish babbles rohit ? :) :lol: :rotfl2:

'Mandukya upanishad', yup the above words Ive read. (Nay I aint very much into tasting lollipop when I am serious to read definition of truth. I am surprised you do it :shock: :? )


Though I would love to know the understanding of the above lines by all of u or some of u interested in discussing it, I THINK UNFORTUNATELY THIS IS BEYOND the scope of this thread, WHICH TALKS ONLY ABOUT RITUALS and ROUTINES to be followed in day to day mortal life .


cheers.

:D :thumbsup:

[Shakthiprabha.]

nant:pragna n bahishpragna nomyat:pragna n pragnandhanan n pragna napragnam |
adrushtam-vyavharyam-grahyam-lakshanyam-chintyam-vyapdeshyam-ekatmpratya-yasarn- praptrochopashamn shant-shivmdait chaturth manayante sa atma sa vigneya: || 7 ||

As the definition is written in Roman script, those who think the Roman alphabets and resulting phonetics would corrupt the meaning of definition, they are strongly requested to refer to the Upanishad itself.

IF THIS CAN be taken up in some other thread?
I am willing to discuss, listen, share and learn from some of u.

:?

[Badri]

Ithula enna irukku SP? Start another thread on this! Or include this in your other thread - Amateurish...

[Shakthiprabha.]

Would do it badri :)

[bingleguy]

WoW :-) Atharvana Vedam :-) Rohit .... kalakkureenga!

नान्तःप्रज्ञं न बहिष्प्रज्ञं नोभयतःप्रज्ञं न प्रज्ञानघनं न प्रज्ञं नाप्रज्ञम् ।
अदृष्टमव्यवहार्यमग्राह्यमलक्षणं अचिन्त्यमव्यपदेश्यमेकात्मप्रत्ययसारं प्रपञ्चोपशमं शान्तं शिवमद्वैतं चतुर्थं मन्यन्ते स आत्मा स विज्ञेयः

स आत्मा स विज्ञेयः
he is self (Atma), he is to be known.........

He is not knowable by perception ... turned inward or outward .... nor by both combined ...He is neither that which is known, nor that which is not known .... nor is he the sum of all that might be known
he cannot be seen grasped .... he is undefinable, unthinkable, indescribable...the only proof of his existence is union with him ... the world disappears in him...he is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second .... this is the fourth condition of the self .... the most worthy of all ...

This self though beyond words ... is the supreme word AUM :-)
Though indivisible it can be divided in three letters corresponding to the three conditions of the self :-) A .... U ....M

AUM the sweet AUM

[Rohit]

Wow.. so u quote guidance/definition of so called truth from our belief which u dismissed as childish babbles rohit ? :) :lol: :rotfl2:

'Mandukya upanishad', yup the above words Ive read. (Nay I aint very much into tasting lollipop when I am serious to read definition of truth. I am surprised you do it :shock: :? )
Yes SP, I do have a fairly thorough grasp not only of Hindu doctrines but also of the doctrines of other religions and philosophies of the world in general. However, I have not allowed myself to be fixated on a single, narrow world-view as most of you have. As a matter of fact, by not allowing yourself to consider every possibility by which such a phenomenal universe and life, as we perceive and experience around us, can come into being, would amount to committing a serious fallacy of false dichotomy. The more one allows him/herself to be bounded by just one narrow world-view as prescribed by his/her religious scriptures, the more he/she moves away from the Ultimate Truth and Ultimate Reality, which is the True 'World-view', encompassing all other world views.

Geeting fixated on a single narrow world-view while ignoring the rest and the reality around us is like the chef of the house unilaterally deciding to cook and serve only Bhindi (Okra) curry everyday even when there is a huge variety of other vegetables available; and consequently the house members are left with no option but to believe that there is only one vegetable, Bhindi (Okra).

Now let me also make you aware of the fact that both GauDaPada and Sankara were astoundingly impressed and consequently heavily influenced by the Buddhist Doctrines.

The following is for those who are genuinely interested in facts

- Advaita Vedanta is nothing but Buddhism in disguise

- GauDapAda is the first historically known author in the Advaita VedAnta tradition.

- GauDapAda is traditionally said to have been the guru of Govinda BhagavatpAda, who was the guru of SankarAcArya.

- GauDapAda composed the GgauDapAdIya kArikAs (GK), which constitute an expository text on the mANDUkya upanishad.

1. The philosophy of Sankaracarya (born about 600 AD), is really just Buddhism in disguise, as explained by Padma Purana (mayavada-asac-chastram pracchanam bauddham ucyate).

2. This can be demonstrated by the chronology of key Mayavadi philosophical explanations, which appear first in Buddhist scriptures and later show up in the philosophy of Sankara and his followers.

3. That Mayavada had stolen the salient features of Sunyavada was not unnoticed by the Buddhists themselves.

4. Buddhism had exercised a profound influence on Sankara's mind to the extent that the tradition opposed to Sankara holds that he is a Buddhist in disguise and his mayavada but crypto-Buddhism.

5. It is well known that Sankara is criticised by his opponents as a "Buddhist in disguise" (pracchanna-bauddha) and his philosophy as mayavada [1] which is but crypto-Buddhism.

6. Among the Vedantins, Bhaskara (750-800) is probably one of the earliest critics against Sankara. He called the Mayavadin "one who depends on the doctrine of the Buddhist" (Buddhamatavalambin), and says that this position has been negated by the author of Brahmasutra.[2] Afterwards, Yamuna (918-1038), Ramanuja (1017-1037), Madhva (1197-1276), Vallabha (1473-1531) and other Vedantins severely criticize the Advaita Vedanta, pointing out that it is in essence nothing but a Buddhist doctrine.[3]

7. Then, in the latter part of the sixteenth century, Vijnanabhiksu of the Samkhya school shows in his Samkhyapravacanabhasya that the mayavada of the Vedantins is of the same standpoint as that of the Vijnanavadin's [4] and criticizes the Vedanta school as a whole. In justifying his criticism, he quotes a verse from the Padmapurana which states that the mayavada is an incorrect theory and is Buddhist doctrine.[5]

8. The Sunyavada philosophy teaches that sunya (void) is an inexpressible and transcendent Truth (a concept echoed in Sankara's explanation of Brahman).
Sources:

http://www.veda.harekrsna.cz/encyclopedia/mayavada.htm

http://www.hindu.com/mag/2004/05/02/stories/2004050200170400.htm

http://www.nagarjunainstitute.com/buddhisthim/backissues/vol11/v11sankara.htm
.
.
.
.
.

I THINK UNFORTUNATELY THIS IS BEYOND the scope of this thread, WHICH TALKS ONLY ABOUT RITUALS and ROUTINES to be followed in day to day mortal life.
Just to let you know dear SP, Advaita is utterly incompatible with both the law of karma as well as ritualistic activities being discussed in this thread; as all rituals involve karma.

:D :) :thumbsup:

[Badri]

- Advaita Vedanta is nothing but Buddhism in disguise

Very true indeed. Which really goes to prove that the Truth can be stated in any form or language but those who are discerning will see beyond mere words into the reality behind those words.

[Rohit]

- Advaita Vedanta is nothing but Buddhism in disguise

Very true indeed.
Thank you for agreeing, Badri.

Yes, the rest is solely up to individuals as to how far one must to go before one can truly discern and realise the Ultimate Truth and Ultimate Reality.

:D :) :thumbsup:

[Badri]

Yes, the rest is solely up to individuals as to how far one must to go before one can truly discern and realise the Ultimate Truth and Ultimate Reality.

Exactly!!! And different people think they have to do this and that and then some more to "realise" this, while others think enough has been done already!

:)

[bingleguy]

- Advaita Vedanta is nothing but Buddhism in disguise

Very true indeed. Which really goes to prove that the Truth can be stated in any form or language but those who are discerning will see beyond mere words into the reality behind those words.

:-)

[Rohit]

Yes, the rest is solely up to individuals as to how far one must to go before one can truly discern and realise the Ultimate Truth and Ultimate Reality.

Exactly!!! And different people think they have to do this and that and then some more to "realise" this, while others think enough has been done already!
:)

Yes, you are absolutely right, Badri. That indeed seems to be the case. However, the Ultimate Truth and Ultimate Reality cannot be changed, irrespective of time, place and people; and that's an undeniable fact.

:D :) :thumbsup:

[Badri]

However, the Ultimate Truth and Ultimate Reality cannot be changed, irrespective of time, place and people; and that's an undeniable fact.

Yes because if it could be changed to suit time place and people, then it cannot be called Ultimate or Truth or Reality!

The problem is every one has a view / opinion of this Truth and then claim that is the only right thing! If only we can give up this fanatical attachment to our opinions and analyse things logically and rationally we will be much happier in this world.

[Rohit]

The problem is every one has a view / opinion of this Truth and then claim that is the only right thing! If only we can give up this fanatical attachment to our opinions and analyse things logically and rationally we will be much happier in this world.
Absolutely!!!

And when one truly does that, the Ultimate Truth and Ultimate Reality still does not change, irrespective of time, place and people; and that remains an undeniable fact.

:D :) :thumbsup:

[Shakthiprabha.]

However, I have not allowed myself to be fixated on a single, narrow world-view as most of you have. As a matter of fact, by not allowing yourself to consider every possibility by which such a phenomenal universe and life, as we perceive and experience around us, can come into being, would amount to committing a serious fallacy of false dichotomy.

I concur with u here, AND I FOR ONE, believe in KNOWING OTHER RELIGION and their view too and if found CONVINCING, I would involve their perspective in my search path too.



Now let me also make you aware of the fact that both GauDaPada and Sankara were astoundingly impressed and consequently heavily influenced by the Buddhist Doctrines.

The following is for those who are genuinely interested in facts

- Advaita Vedanta is nothing but Buddhism in disguise

- GauDapAda is the first historically known author in the Advaita VedAnta tradition.

- GauDapAda is traditionally said to have been the guru of Govinda BhagavatpAda, who was the guru of SankarAcArya.

- GauDapAda composed the GgauDapAdIya kArikAs (GK), which constitute an expository text on the mANDUkya upanishad.

1. The philosophy of Sankaracarya (born about 600 AD), is really just Buddhism in disguise, as explained by Padma Purana (mayavada-asac-chastram pracchanam bauddham ucyate).

2. This can be demonstrated by the chronology of key Mayavadi philosophical explanations, which appear first in Buddhist scriptures and later show up in the philosophy of Sankara and his followers.

3. That Mayavada had stolen the salient features of Sunyavada was not unnoticed by the Buddhists themselves.

4. Buddhism had exercised a profound influence on Sankara's mind to the extent that the tradition opposed to Sankara holds that he is a Buddhist in disguise and his mayavada but crypto-Buddhism.

5. It is well known that Sankara is criticised by his opponents as a "Buddhist in disguise" (pracchanna-bauddha) and his philosophy as mayavada [1] which is but crypto-Buddhism.

6. Among the Vedantins, Bhaskara (750-800) is probably one of the earliest critics against Sankara. He called the Mayavadin "one who depends on the doctrine of the Buddhist" (Buddhamatavalambin), and says that this position has been negated by the author of Brahmasutra.[2] Afterwards, Yamuna (918-1038), Ramanuja (1017-1037), Madhva (1197-1276), Vallabha (1473-1531) and other Vedantins severely criticize the Advaita Vedanta, pointing out that it is in essence nothing but a Buddhist doctrine.[3]

7. Then, in the latter part of the sixteenth century, Vijnanabhiksu of the Samkhya school shows in his Samkhyapravacanabhasya that the mayavada of the Vedantins is of the same standpoint as that of the Vijnanavadin's [4] and criticizes the Vedanta school as a whole. In justifying his criticism, he quotes a verse from the Padmapurana which states that the mayavada is an incorrect theory and is Buddhist doctrine.[5]

8. The Sunyavada philosophy teaches that sunya (void) is an inexpressible and transcendent Truth (a concept echoed in Sankara's explanation of Brahman).
Sources:

http://www.veda.harekrsna.cz/encyclopedia/mayavada.htm

http://www.hindu.com/mag/2004/05/02/stories/2004050200170400.htm

http://www.nagarjunainstitute.com/buddhisthim/backissues/vol11/v11sankara.htm

Thats lovely! More than What I could ask for.

Dear rohit, I always KNEW, and BELIEVED u were much learned and possess greater knowledge and have referred many doctrines than atleast myself in question.

Would make a note of ur references and links and GO THROUGH all what I need to.

Would keep me busy for next some weeks or months :)

and definitely I THANK YOU for providing me with these infos and links :ty:


Just to let you know dear SP, Advaita is utterly incompatible with both the law of karma as well as ritualistic activities being discussed in this thread; as all rituals involve karma.

I NEVER denied it. My first post was IN TOTAL AGREEMENT with your post, when it comes to ritualistic activities or karmic ones, and I for one, is not a believer of rituals or routines as a guide to take me towards truth

However, I do believe, People have different method of approach. LET them do it, just like HOW I HAVE MY right of chosing my path they have theirs, THATS when I midly protested, when I felt ur words, MIGHT have troubled many believers :)

once again :ty: GENUINELY from my heart.

:D :thumbsup:

[Rohit]

once again :ty: GENUINELY from my heart.
:D :thumbsup:
You are welcome dear SP.

:D :) :thumbsup:

[bingleguy]

:-)

[Sudhaama]

.
Dear Friends,

Now the Topic has taken a different trend...

... towards the PHILOSOPHICAL AUTHENTICITY... on Destiny Vs. Human confrontation might.

Well. No doubt such an indepth analysis also can be meaningful and purposeful.

...but such a SIDE-TRACKING... kills the previous pursuit in the Basic-aspect of Commonman's angle... useful for ELEMENTARY LIFE PRACTICE.

In fact I want to say a lot on this subject in the Common-man's angle...

...which approach is blocked by such a new diversion... towards the deep analysis on the Scriptural sources

So our Moderator Mr Badri had rightly suggested to open a SEPARATE THREAD for the latest diversion aspect...

.. such that BOTH THREADS can continue parallelly.

So please open another Thread forthwith and transfer such deviating postings there....

.. alllowing us to participate in both the threads... in two different aspects.
.

[Nakeeran]

[tscii:e5085f5204]A teleserial on Ravan in Zee channel shows one scene wherein one persons comments as follows :

For doing homams, poojas & other sacred offerings to Gods, the rishis always prefer a Cow’s milk but never a buffalow’s milk.

Is this practice is being followed even today ?

Is it true ? If yes, any specific reason for this pls.
[/tscii:e5085f5204]

[Sudhaama]

.
. Cow the HOLY MOTHER for all Living-Beings. !!


[tscii:333d493951]A teleserial on Ravan in Zee channel shows one scene wherein one persons comments as follows :

For doing homams, poojas & other sacred offerings to Gods, the rishis always prefer a Cow’s milk but never a buffalow’s milk.

Is this practice is being followed even today ?

Is it true ? If yes, any specific reason for this pls.
[/tscii:333d493951]

Yes. According to Vedic Scriptures... Cow is the Offspring of Kamadhenu-devi... sent to Earth by her as the Protector...

... HOLY MOTHER... for the entire Global Mankind...

...as also for any and every Creature on Earth..!!.

.. a Strange Phenomena... even Scientifically true.!!

So to say Cow's milk suits and fulfills any newborn creatures Supplementary needs as also the Subsistence demands... next to the relevent Specy Mother's milk.

Scientifically too Cow's milk keeps up to the Rudimentary Nutrient-demands of any newborn creature on Earth.

Vedic Scriptures regard the Cow as highly venerable as the Demi-Godmother...

.. and even the combination of its Five Bodily wastes named PANCHA-KAVYA ... are holy.

Panchakavya is composed of its Urine, Excreta, Milk, Buttermilk and Ghee ...

...valued as the Purifying Agents on any UNHOLY Acts or ORTHODOXY-INFRINGEMENT or even the day to day preservation of Sanctity and Purifications for any Holy performances like Yaga, Homa or sacred Rituals of any sort.... including Marriages and Griha-pravesam.

For Non-Hindus... it may be a factor of Mockery or Ridicule or Decry.

But we Hindus are well-convinced that our Sasthras have some real meaning worthy of Wisdom and advanced Soul-might...

... supported by Scientific justification too.

Buffalo and Goat are not considered the holy-creatures like the Cow...

...even though they too cater to the Human food-needs.

For improving and conservation of Soul-power... if not its advancement...

... a PRE-REQUISITE for Orthodoxy.. specified for strict adherence as Life-practice, for those who are concerned with any sacred performances or Rituals...

.. so to say the Poojaris, who conduct the Poojas in Temples..

... Vedic pandits who chant Vedic scriptures...

...the Conductor of Holy Rituals by chanting Manthras for Marriages or some such homely ceremonies..

.. and the RITHWIKS..who performs Homas and Yagjnas.

For all such professionals of Orthodoxy...Geetha and Sasthras prescribe SAATHVIC FOODS.

Goat and Buffalo milk are not Saathvic... but Thaamasic, which are enough to build the Physical might..

... and if it exceeds beyond limit it develops Laziness and Lethargy...

...whereas the Cow's milk... next to Human-milk, builds up the Human-potentialities especially the Wisdom and Soul-power to the highest degree... being exclusively a SAATHVIC FOOD.

According to Puranas, Goddess Lakshmi says... that among Animals, she resides in the Cow..

...and amongst the Liquids... she resides in Cow's milk.

That is why... for Abhishekas... Only the Cow's milk is permissible.

For purification of an Empty Food-plate.. a few drops of Cow's milk is smeared on the Plate/ Leaf... prior to serving Food... which is called KALA-SUDDHI

Prior to eating and PARISHECHANAM...a few Tea-spoonfuls of Cow's Ghee is poured on Anna(Food)... as ANNA-SUDDHI... meaning the purification of Food.

Even in the War-field... if a Cow is standing in front, the Warriors used to bow down, keeping off the Weapons.

Silappadikaaram says... Kannaki cursed the whole city of Paandia's capital... to perish... excluding the Cows, Children and Pathnis...

...Because the Cow is considered as much Holy as a Pathni-woman.

Cow is the ONLY CREATURE IN THE WORLD...who is able to produce abundant mother's feed...

... HIGHLY SURPLUS and very much more than its needs for its calf.

In brief... the Cow is the WORSHIPFUL HOLY MOTHER for the Vedic followers.
.

[pradheep]

http://www.warriers.org/rituals.htm

[goodsense]

Dear Pradeep,

What an enlightening site. We never know enough.

Thank you so much.

[pradheep]

what we know is only a handful when there is cosmic quantity to be known

[goodsense]

what we know is only a handful when there is cosmic quantity to be known

Absolutely! Look at the significance of the feet touching. I know many people who have kicked people, dogs and cats etc. But what I often wonder about is - how can one be judged when one lacks the absolute knowledge which will take more than a life time to acquire with respect to right and wrongs; the acceptable and unacceptable. This might be a good question for the karma thread.

[pradheep]

Good question Goodsense.
If I understand your question correctly, loearning comes only when we drops judgements. Children learn fast because they have enquiring mind but not judgemental mind. As they grow they become more judgemental. We have to be innocent like children to learn and understand and stop judgements.

[goodsense]

Well cultural values and law of the land vary from race, ethnicity and country. You will find people from a different race, coming from a land of a different set of rules relating to the same issue, being dealt with differently than he or she would in his or her country of his or her own kind. Although he or she may not be familiar with the rules or values of the foreign land of a different race and culture, he or she will be judged the same as those of the land he or she is foreign to. This is so while the law claims, he or she from the foreign land need not know the foreign law (the law of the new land) beforehand. I never understand it. We could say the same for rituals and their meanings from culture to culture etc. when it comes to judgment. In other words, what is acceptable in one culture (related to ritual) or country may not be in another, yet the person is judged the same way.

Again, this can be followed up in the Karma thread.

So much for the digression of rituals, why we do them, degree of knowledge and judgments of people including foreign people.

However, do you think hindu rituals man the same and are carried out the same way by all hindus?

[ishwaria]

Talking about cows,

Why are products of cow, milk & cheese considered as vegetarian?
Isnt cow an animal? Just like the chicken? How can an animal's output be considered as vegetarian? Some people have started eating eggs claiming them to be a vegetarian dish. So why cant they eat it after it hatches? After all the starting material is the same. I wonder if these vegetarians will venture into other forms of eggs like duck eggs, turtle eggs, maybe some would be lucky to find a dinousour egg!

[bingleguy]

Well .... oru pechukku yosichu paarungalen Ishwaria ..... Plants aiyum living beings nnu solrom ... they also live, breathe and be a part of the growing environment .....
Plant oda offerings ai naama saapidurom .... adhu uyirai konnu saapidura vishayamaa ??? illaye .... we are consuming its output .... the one that it gives as a product .....
Similarly cows product is this Milk .... infact milk and milk products kooda nirayaa peru saapidaama irukkaanga :-) illayaa ...

I may not be completely ... n m not a pro in these explanations ... :-) i leave it to experienced ppl to answer this query :-)

[Sudhaama]

.
. Right Question at WRONG PLACE.!!


Talking about cows,

Why are products of cow, milk & cheese considered as vegetarian?
Isnt cow an animal? Just like the chicken? How can an animal's output be considered as vegetarian? Some people have started eating eggs claiming them to be a vegetarian dish. So why cant they eat it after it hatches? After all the starting material is the same. I wonder if these vegetarians will venture into other forms of eggs like duck eggs, turtle eggs, maybe some would be lucky to find a dinousour egg!

Whether the Dairy products and Egg are the VEGETARIAN OR NOT...

...is not the Question relevant to this Thread on Religion.

However I briefly clarify.

Mother's milk since sucked by the Baby...

...can we name that the Human-babies are CANNIBALS.?..

...since the Milk is the transformation of Mother's blood.!

The Egg that is served in the same shape in the Restaurants and Markets...

...contain No Embryo Life within... so to say NO CHICKEN inside...

...but Plain Egg...unconceived... without mating...named STERILE EGG.

The Egg containing Chickens... named FERTILE EGG.. is costlier...

...and will not be sold in the Market... in the same pre-emptive shape as Egg.

But will be made to hatch and then only sold as Chicken... of higher price-value than the plain Egg... without Chicken.

We the Common-men neither consider Egg as Vegetarian... NOR HOLY.

But the International Vegetarian Congress has declared...

... the STERILE EGG AS VEGETARIAN Food..

Why and on What Logic... is far and far beyond the scope of this Thread.

In brief.. the Cow's milk alone is considered holy.. and a Sacred Vegetarian food of Moral values...

..conforming to Vedic Puranas and Scriptures...

..because the Cow is the HOLY-MOTHER for the Whole Universal Creatures of all sorts...

And its Milk alone is fit enough to feed the newborns of any creature on Earth...

..right from Snake, Ants, Tiger cubs, and any other animal off-springs.

As already detailed before... COW'S MILK IS THE ONLY Natural Baby Food...

...as an Alternative to any other Living being feed to its newborn

...which is NOT ONLY FIT for all...

... but also the ONLY MOTHER, able to produce EXCESSIVELY and abundantly...

...much more than its need for its Calf.

Religion and the Religious Customs and Practices.. are based on Faith of the respective followers.

Upto some extent... we can find out the Reasoning behind...

.. But beyond certain stage...

...we have to accept the Regulations as the Religious Stipulations.

This Basic Formula is applicable to any Custom of ANY RELIGION.

Logical arguments can reach NO END AT ALL... it can only lead to denigration or Emotions of Heat...

...if and when the matter is OVER-STRETCHED.

We have to take the Moral sense heartily.

For example.. for Muslims the Camel-milk is the holiest of all other Milks. So orthodox Muslims including some Imams and Rich Muslims intentionally fetch Camels and breed it for the purpose.

It is beyond the Purview of questioning from others... as to Why and How.

It is just their Faith, which spirit must be honoured by others

In brief, We are interested to reply only to the Knowledge-Seekers...

...and NOT INTERESTED TO CONVINCE others... the Determined Opponents..

...as to How and Why we are right.
.

[bingleguy]

Sudhamaa sir :-) absolutely wonderful :-)

[NOV]

how can cow milk be considered non-vegetarian? :shock:
do you kill the cow to extract milk? :roll:

[Sanguine Sridhar]

Well .... oru pechukku yosichu paarungalen Ishwaria ..... Plants aiyum living beings nnu solrom ... they also live, breathe and be a part of the growing environment .....
Plant oda offerings ai naama saapidurom .... adhu uyirai konnu saapidura vishayamaa ??? illaye .... we are consuming its output ....

Urulaikezhangu,Beetroot pondra kaaigarigalai saapduradhukku neenga andha chediye azhikanume? adhu gyayama?

Seri, matha kaaigargalai eduthupom. Ella kaaigarigalilum vidhai irrukudhu.Vidhai thaan innoru chedi mulaipadharku vithu, adhayum saapdrome! :roll: oru uyrai azhipadharku samam thaane?

aaga motham indha ulgathula onna azhichu thaan onnu uyir vaazhamudiyum! ennaya poruthavaraikum vegetarian-um oru non-vegetarian thaan :exactly:

[Madh@va]

Perhaps, food source with blood are the only ones worthy enough to be protected! :roll: I don't know.

[Madh@va]

how can cow milk be considered non-vegetarian? :shock:
do you kill the cow to extract milk? :roll:
Maybe because the source is biologically 'meat'?
Again, I don't know.

[NOV]

you see it as meat? :shock: :evil: :yessir:

[bingleguy]

Well .... oru pechukku yosichu paarungalen Ishwaria ..... Plants aiyum living beings nnu solrom ... they also live, breathe and be a part of the growing environment .....
Plant oda offerings ai naama saapidurom .... adhu uyirai konnu saapidura vishayamaa ??? illaye .... we are consuming its output ....

Urulaikezhangu,Beetroot pondra kaaigarigalai saapduradhukku neenga andha chediye azhikanume? adhu gyayama?

Seri, matha kaaigargalai eduthupom. Ella kaaigarigalilum vidhai irrukudhu.Vidhai thaan innoru chedi mulaipadharku vithu, adhayum saapdrome! :roll: oru uyrai azhipadharku samam thaane?

aaga motham indha ulgathula onna azhichu thaan onnu uyir vaazhamudiyum! ennaya poruthavaraikum vegetarian-um oru non-vegetarian thaan :exactly:

Sri .....
neenga solra chedigaL oda purpose is solved once it produces the output ..... It lives its life for creating the potato n beetroot ... :-) so as such adhu koduthadhai dhaan appavum saapidurom ..... azhichu panradhu illai ..... Do u think that u take out the potato n plant the stem part of it again to grow .... ?

The purpose of those plants is to create the output :-) Naam andha chediyai thoduvadharkku munbo, pirago ... matroru uyirai valarkkiorom .... adhaavadhu SEED ..... thats natural way of creating a uyir :-) from this existing uyir .....

take plantain for example .... all the parts of a plantain tree are used ...... its purpose is for giving all its parts ..... but not a goat / cow / fish has such purpose .....

adhukkaanga naan V and NV kkaana sarchai kku varalai .... normal aa NV ppl indha kaaranathai dhaan solluvaanga :-)
Again as a VEGE m re iterating that ... we are not interested in taking NV ... avvalavu dhaan ... n never wanted u guys to change to veges nor force ourselves into something which we dont want to do :-)

I feel there is nothing wrong in us being Vege :-) illayaa ?????

[bingleguy]

Perhaps, food source with blood are the only ones worthy enough to be protected! :roll: I don't know.

Nothing like that :-) There is nothing unworthy in this Universe .... Ellathukkum oru purpose irukku ..... :-)

Infact food source with Blood are the only ones that shows the pain outside when disturbed ......

[Sanguine Sridhar]

Sri .....
neenga solra chedigaL oda purpose is solved once it produces the output ..... It lives its life for creating the potato n beetroot ... :-) so as such adhu koduthadhai dhaan appavum saapidurom ..... azhichu panradhu illai ..... Do u think that u take out the potato n plant the stem part of it again to grow .... ?

The purpose of those plants is to create the output :-) Naam andha chediyai thoduvadharkku munbo, pirago ... matroru uyirai valarkkiorom .... adhaavadhu SEED ..... thats natural way of creating a uyir :-) from this existing uyir .....

How do you know that the purpose of those plants are just for producing those outputs? Is it a slave for you? Right, every living thing is trying to survive in this world.Now lets say some living thing is superior than the human being and its food is only we human being.Do you accept that our reproduction cycle is just to feed those superiors?



take plantain for example .... all the parts of a plantain tree are used ...... its purpose is for giving all its parts ..... but not a goat / cow / fish has such purpose .....

Once again "Purpose" whom we are to decide its purpose :huh:

[bingleguy]

How do you know that the purpose of those plants are just for producing those outputs? Is it a slave for you? Right, everybody living thing is trying to survive in this world.Now lets say some living thing is superior than the human being and its food is only we human being.Do you accept that our reproduction cycle is just to feed those superiors?
IS TO CREATE THOSE OUTPUT nnu dhaan sonnene ozhiya .... IS JUST ONLY TO CREATE the output nnu sollaliye :-)
U decide to share ur beard - Is that a slave for u ???
U decide to cut short ur hair - Is that a slave for u ... ????
U decide to use Oxygen every time IN for u to live - are u asking its permission :-) is that ur slave ....
aint all these factors of nature .....

Reproduction CYCLE :-) the word says everything ..... CYCLE means ... it has a start and it ends at the same place .... a PURPOSE of starting n endin at the same place ..... we still say without killing in this world - there will be Living imbalance .... :-) But if nature would have decided that way .... it would had a different plan for all of us :-) We decide that .....



Once again "Purpose" whom we are to decide its purpose :huh:

The purpose as wat i meant is the PURPOSE NATURE has offerred .... not just to make it as our food ... but the PURPOSE of every part of plaintain to be of some use .....

[Madh@va]

you see it as meat? :shock: :evil: :yessir:
I don't. I meant as in the source of milk formation :roll:. I'm a non-veg :D. I'm trying to see from the point of vegetarians.


nothing like that There is nothing unworthy in this Universe .... Ellathukkum oru purpose irukku .....
Of course, Bingleguy. Chumma solli parthen, because who are we to decide on what lives and what not.


Infact food source with Blood are the only ones that shows the pain outside when disturbed ......
Obviously. If outwardly no pain is shown?

[NOV]

milk is not NV from the any point of view. i dont understand how anyone can have doubts on that.

[Sanguine Sridhar]

IS TO CREATE THOSE OUTPUT nnu dhaan sonnene ozhiya .... IS JUST ONLY TO CREATE the output nnu sollaliye :-)
U decide to share ur beard - Is that a slave for u ???
U decide to cut short ur hair - Is that a slave for u ... ????
U decide to use Oxygen every time IN for u to live - are u asking its permission :-) is that ur slave ....
aint all these factors of nature .....


Hello Vasanth :) Beard,Hair idhellam namma udambula irrundhu velilavara non-living thing waste product! even Oxygen is not a living thing! Non-living thing-ta permission kekka mudiyuma :lol2: ennanga neenga?! Ovvoru plant kitteyum natural-la tharkaapuku onnu irrukum. Murungai,Maanga maram are tall easily not reachable, vaazhamarathula yera mudiyaadhu vazhukki vidum, roja chedi-la mutkal irrukum.So nature padaipula ellauyirinagulum thangalai paadhukkathukka oru nutpam irrukum. So Aaadu,Maadu,Chedi,maram,manidhargal ellam ondru thaan

[bingleguy]

If outwardly no pain is shown?

Truly.... a valid point ....
As far as Human nature is concerned, we learn things ....
pattu theriyardhu nnu solla maatomaa :-) andha maadiri dhaan ... we never know something unless n until we believe it ... that is feel it ....
irukkalaam ...... naama marathai vettum podhu... adhu azhardhu naama kannukku theriyaama irukkalaam ... once we start knowing things .... we may stop...

But ippo kadhara kadhara vettikkittu dhaane irukkom :-)
marathaiyum seri .... mirugathaiyum seri :-)

kekkara kadharalukke .... naame niruthardhu illa ...
kekkaadha kadharalaukku importance enga kodukka poraanga :P

[bingleguy]

IS TO CREATE THOSE OUTPUT nnu dhaan sonnene ozhiya .... IS JUST ONLY TO CREATE the output nnu sollaliye :-)
U decide to share ur beard - Is that a slave for u ???
U decide to cut short ur hair - Is that a slave for u ... ????
U decide to use Oxygen every time IN for u to live - are u asking its permission :-) is that ur slave ....
aint all these factors of nature .....


Hello Vasanth :) Beard,Hair idhellam namma udambula irrundhu velilavara non-living thing waste product! even Oxygen is not a living thing! Non-living thing-ta permission kekka mudiyuma :lol2: ennanga neenga?! Ovvoru plant kitteyum natural-la tharkaapuku onnu irrukum. Murungai,Maanga maram are tall easily not reachable, vaazhamarathula yera mudiyaadhu vazhukki vidum, roja chedi-la mutkal irrukum.So nature padaipula ellauyirinagulum thangalai paadhukkathukka oru nutpam irrukum. So Aaadu,Maadu,Chedi,maram,manidhargal ellam ondru thaan

Sri ....

simple thing .... how do u decide that they are non LIVING ?????

:lol: Thala mudiyum thaadiyum WASTE PRODUCT nnu solra ungalai enna nnu solradhu :clap: paaraattalaam ... pudhu theory kandu pudichadhukku .....

naama swasikkira kaathu kku uyir illai nnu eppadi solreenga ?????? enna nga nyayam idhu ... adhunaala dhaanga neenga uyir vaazhave vaazhureenga :-)

anyways .... sirikkardhu en nokkamalla ..... those were just quoted for examples of some things that u do naturally :-) ok vaa .... paaka pona .... namma odambe oru WASTE product dhaan ;-) adhai paraamarikka dhaan naama ivvalavu kashta padarom ....

eppo paagupaadu paathom ??????? aadu maadu kozhi saapida engalukku ishtamillai nnu solradhu ungalukku ennanga problem... we never come on ur path .... we specify wats ours :-) we wanted to restrict our diet .... VEGEtarians ... VEGETABLE sapiduravanga nnu vechukongalen :-) en meat, mutton saapidaadhavanga nnu yosikkireenga ??????

naanga chediya saapiduradhai niruthirom ... neenga aadu maadu saapiduradhai niruthureenga :) indha prachanai kku theervu kidaichidumaa ???????????? :-) sollunga sri.....

[Sanguine Sridhar]

Sri ....

simple thing .... how do u decide that they are non LIVING ?????

:lol: Thala mudiyum thaadiyum WASTE PRODUCT nnu solra ungalai enna nnu solradhu :clap: paaraattalaam ... pudhu theory kandu pudichadhukku .....

:rotfl: idhu romba pazhaya theory-ngO! Our hairs,nails are waste products.Science padikalaya neenga? :lol2:


naama swasikkira kaathu kku uyir illai nnu eppadi solreenga ?????? enna nga nyayam idhu ... adhunaala dhaanga neenga uyir vaazhave vaazhureenga :-)

Come on Vasanth! Oxygen reproduce anything? En kutti moolaikku ettuna varai appadi thonala :lol2:


eppo paagupaadu paathom ??????? aadu maadu kozhi saapida engalukku ishtamillai nnu solradhu ungalukku ennanga problem... we never come on ur path .... we specify wats ours :-) we wanted to restrict our diet .... VEGEtarians ... VEGETABLE sapiduravanga nnu vechukongalen :-) en meat, mutton saapidaadhavanga nnu yosikkireenga ??????

naanga chediya saapiduradhai niruthirom ... neenga aadu maadu saapiduradhai niruthureenga :) indha prachanai kku theervu kidaichidumaa ???????????? :-) sollunga sri.....

Neenga solradha naan othukiren, I am not here to argue Veg or Non-veg is best but Veg,Non-Veg ellame onnu thaan. Ellorum uyirai kola pannurOm! Payir valakuradhum, Kozhi valakuradhum orey purpose thaan! :twisted:

[Madh@va]

...but Veg,Non-Veg ellame onnu thaan. Ellorum uyirai kola pannurOm! :notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:

[NOV]

...but Veg,Non-Veg ellame onnu thaan. Ellorum uyirai kola pannurOm! :notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:as a non Veg, I strongly disagree to this.

this is just an excuse to continue practising what we want to do. in other words, justification.

rotting meat'ukkum rotting plants'ukkum viththyaasam theryumla? :lol2:

[Madh@va]

this is just an excuse to continue practising what we want to do. in other words, justification.
You say justification, I say food-without prejudice. :D



rotting meat'ukkum rotting plants'ukkum viththyaasam theryumla? :lol2:
Both cannot be eaten. :P

[Sudhaama]

.

.Oh !!. What is Going on here?.

..Anything Topic-relevant.?... Hindu-Customs?... Culture?.. History?

Dear NOV... Moderator.!.. You too are joining with them for such disorderly DIVERSION and DIGRESSION.!!!.

Dear Friends... this is the Thread... on...

... HINDU RELIGIOUS CUSTOMS.. under Culture / History.. Please remember.

Vegetarian or Non-Vegetarian?...

Food Ingredient.. with Life or No Life. !!

These points are relevant to another Thread on such a specific Head...

..under Miscallaneous section.

Mankind BORN-VEGETARIAN.??..!!
http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?t=2549&highlight=&sid=4ff01c8085ce3718d7ee7438791c55ba

Dear Friends... Please raise up these Questions there. I can give you all suitable replies
.

[bingleguy]

Sorry Sudhaamaa sir ! I am refraining from continuing this topic .......

[joe]

Plant oda offerings ai naama saapidurom .... adhu uyirai konnu saapidura vishayamaa ??? illaye .... we are consuming its output ....

Eththanaiyo Keerai vagaikaLai moththama pudungi saapidurathilliya? :roll:

[bingleguy]

Plant oda offerings ai naama saapidurom .... adhu uyirai konnu saapidura vishayamaa ??? illaye .... we are consuming its output ....

Eththanaiyo Keerai vagaikaLai moththama pudungi saapidurathilliya? :roll:

This Argument goes on Joe sir .... May be i am not knowing to answer this question .... appo enda vaaya thorandha nnu kekkureengalaa .... enna panradhu .... sila samayam patta dhaan puriyudhu ...I never vouch n goto a person who eats meat arguing that DO NOT EAT MEAT, EAT ONLY VEGETABLES :-)

indha argument kku naan vandirukka koodaadhu .....

Eating keerai :-) tats the reason, many refrain from eating that Joe sir :-) i knew many ppl who refrain from eating even Milk n their products :-)
Idhai kolai nne vechukonga :-) I believe this doesnt force the ppl who eat vegetables necessarily to eat meat ... because they both are doin the same ....

i choose wat i eat :-)

Well as i already said ... I AM REFRAINING FROM CONTINUING ON THIS TOPIC :-) i shall PM u Joe sir .....

[joe]

bingleguy,
Ayyo..yen ivvaLavu viLakkam kodukkureenga ..I am not here to argue with any side ..Unga statement-a padikkum pothu etho uthaikkura maathiri thonichu .athaan sonnen .

Naan keeraum saappiduren .appapa meat-m saapiduren ..niraya kaai kariyum saapiduren ..ellathukkum mela niraya meen saapiduren :)

[joe]

i choose wat i eat :-)

I eat what I choose :)

Rendume onnu thaano :roll:

[bingleguy]

i choose wat i eat :-)

I eat what I choose :)

Rendume onnu thaano :roll:

Probably i should have said ... I choose wat to eat :-)
ennai porutha varai ... naama rendu perum orey vishayathai dhaan mean (meen illai :P) panrom !

[bingleguy]

bingleguy,
Ayyo..yen ivvaLavu viLakkam kodukkureenga ..I am not here to argue with any side ..Unga statement-a padikkum pothu etho uthaikkura maathiri thonichu .athaan sonnen .

Naan keeraum saappiduren .appapa meat-m saapiduren ..niraya kaai kariyum saapiduren ..ellathukkum mela niraya meen saapiduren :)

I never go on arguments of this sort..... NAAN saapiduven, NAAN saapidamaaten ngra ennam mattum porum enakku .... NEENGA IDHAI SAAPIDUNGA ... IDHAI SAAPIDAADHEENGA nnu solra type illai naan :-)

ennamo manasula thoninadhai sonnen ..... I am a very conscious on wat i am choosing to eat .... i refrain from eating eggs, meat(silarai porutha varai, vegetables um meat dhaan ... but naan mean panninadhu adhu illai) of any kind .....

naama swasikkira kaathulaye avvalavu kirumigal irukku :-) adhai naam ulla eduthukkaamayaa irukkom .... keezha evvalavo bacteria uyiroda irukku ... adhai midhichukitte dhaan porom ..... :-) this makes everybody a sinner - a killer :-)

[madhu]

ellArum viradham irungO :P

[bingleguy]

ellArum viradham irungO :P
<digr>
Exactly ...... :lol: endha prachanaiyum illai :P

[Sudhaama]

.
.Dear Friends.!!.. Particularly MODERATORS.!!

I am much pained to note that my request has been IGNORED by all.

Now You see... it has become.. a HAE HAE.!!. Gossip.!. ARATTAI.!!..

..on a Serious Matter.!!

If I am Wrong in your opinion...I would have been glad to consider your Counter-opinion...

....but NOT THIS SUICIDAL cum SICKLY TREND.. for all concerned.

How and Why I say so?

This is a VERY GOOD THREAD... Quite Meaningful... and INTERESTING Enough...

...Not only to the Hindus all over the World...

..but also for the Non-Hindus COMMON-MEN..... on why the Hindus do such and such a practice and Customs...

...similar to any Non-Christian Commonman... who may be curious to know the Sense and Values of Worship in the Church...

... by Kneeling before the Altar.

So long the Discussions continue in the right direction and perspective...

...without TRANSGRESSING the bounds and purview of the Topic... it is OK.

But some people... who have some PRE-CONCEIVED NOTIONS...

...INTENTIONALLY raise some questions... which seems to be connected to the Topic...

...but MISCHIVOUSLY.

Why.? They take pleasure to MOCK & RIDICULE at the Sacred Customs and Holy Faith... of others.

They have DETERMINED TO DIFFER at any cost... and used to keep on ARGUING... endlessly...

..Dry-Arguments of Obstinacy...

...until the Moderators get FED UP and LOCK THE THREAD.

Should we allow this INTERESTING AND USEFUL Thread... take a Diverse Trend...

...towards SICKLY THOUGHTS... and Endless Direction.??.. USEFUL TO NONE.!!

Every subject is directly and indirectly linked with several other subjects.

For example... there is..

... Religion in Science as well as Science in Religion.

... History in Religion.. and Religion in History.

... Politics in Religion... and Religion in Politics.

...Culture in Religion and Religion in Culture..

But we must remember that the subject RELIGION IN SCIENCE..

... is different from the SCIENCE IN RELIGION... and in such other cases too.

So if somebody wants to say something unique in a different healthy angle...WELCOME...

But let them post in the RELEVANT and... APT... Thread...

So to mean...if it is On Food... under the... Mankind BORN-VEGETARIAN??..

...Or please Open a Separate Thread as per your Choice...

...and put forth your Thoughts and Counter-Thoughts.

Food is a Common subject for all. So anything whatever is said there on Food...

...will be EFFECTIVELY participated by not only the common people...

.. but also the EXPERTS IN THE FIELD of Food Health and Nutrition..

..alongside the Experts of Religion.

=================================

Dear Moderator,

Please CUT & PASTE... all the Postings here...ON FOOD...

...in the above relevant Thread... Mankind BORN-VEGETARIAN??


===================================

...I REITERATE that I will answer all your such Questions raised here..

...if posted there in the relevant Thread.

Food-Experts as well as Religious Scholars too... will get an opportunity to participate there meaningfully.

But for God's sake... please don't hurt ANYMORE...

... the Faiths and Sentiments of Hindus... who will be the maximum visiting this Thread.

Let us continue this Thread WITHIN ITS BOUNDS.

Consequently both the discussions can continue parallelly and simultaneously.

I have a lot to say more on the Meaningful Customs & Practices of Hindus....

...as much as many other Friends... Well-Knowledged.

So, My Dear Friends... Please Don't Block our Way anymore...

...in this EXCLUSIVE Path of RELIGIOUS SCOPE AND PURPOSE.!!
.

[Sudhaama]

.
Why PROSTRATE.. Flat on ground before God.?

It carries a High sense of Bodily-Gesture coupled with Mind-culture...UNTOLD...

...but significant EXPRESSION OF HEART.

In Hindu Religion... the term... GOD-FEARING... is the least applicable.

Because the Vedic-followers SELDOM FEAR FOR GOD...

In fact ...according to Science...FAITH IS OPPOSITE TO FEAR...

...and Fear goes away...when Faith gets fortified within Oneself.

That is why all the Gods of Vedic Religion... repeatedly declare..

...YAAM IRUKKA BAYAM YAEN.?...

...meaning... "Why Fear when I am here to Protect You?"

In the initial stages of Mankind... Man considered the Nature-powers as Gods...

...the Thunderstorm is the Threatening Voice of God... Lightning the Threatening Signal...

Natural Fire or Floods or Earthquake, Storm etc. ... mean the Punishment of God..

Thus they considered God as the Freightening Super-Human Power.

Whereas Vedic-Religion..depicts Gods of various Forms and Qualities... but ultimately

...all the Gods are of PARENTAL LOVE... offer to take care of their Earthly Children...

...commensurate with the extent of Faith reposed on any one particular God-form.

So before entering the Temple.. he prostrates before God... conveying the sense...

"Oh! My Great Protector!!.. Without your Grace, I will not be able to advance...

... nor progress fundamentally... nor EVEN EXIST on Earth.

So Your benign grace is quite Vital and imperative for me at every stage...

... I belong to you as your property... as your Child...

...so I depend and TRUST in you... with FULL FAITH... wholly and solely.

...Even the Human-mights you have bestowed me belong to you...

And such of my Human-strengths and Powers are just a pittance or dust... if compared to your Great Mights.

So, before you I consider myself as the Powerless...

...and so considering myself as a DUST BEFORE YOU..

... I surrender at your holy Feet... along with all my Mights you have given me...

...Please show me the right way constantly... so that my Inborn mights can get duly channelised..

...in the proper way... as you my Protector Leader want..and decide.

Oh my dear LOVELY Great... Father / Mother / Protector...

... I seek your unfailing KINDNESS and CONDONEMENT for ever

So I surrender TOTALLY at your holy Feet. ..

I seek your Grace and Pardon.. if I have committed any sins in my present and previous births...

..knowingly or unknowingly.

Engrossed with such a MORAL-SENSE... coupled with PURITY OF HEART... and FIRM FAITH in you..

...I have come to you... and dare to approach you...

... to YOUR PROXIMITY... Sannidhi.

Oh God.!.. Kindly permit me to come nearby..

...and Shower your BENIGN GRACE on me...

...towards my SUCCESS...HAPPINESS... and PROSPERITY.!!
.

[bingleguy]

A Question on Avani Avittam sankalpam ....

Sankalpam pannum podhu ......

----------- varushe BHARATHA kande nnu solrom ........ when we are in India ....

America la pannum podhu enna sollanum :roll:

Also, not sure where other things change during we involve in pujas when we are in the states......

Can anybody throw some light on this ????????????

[Sudhaama]

.
. AVANI-AVITTAM... Sraavanam...an Annual Ceremony.!


A Question on Avani Avittam sankalpam ....

Sankalpam pannum podhu ......

----------- varushe BHARATHA kande nnu solrom ........ when we are in India ....

America la pannum podhu enna sollanum :roll:

Also, not sure where other things change during we involve in pujas when we are in the states......

Can anybody throw some light on this ????????????

Avani-Avittam pertains to all the Hindus irrespective of Castes.... similar to Poonool wearing

Poonool or the so called Holy-Thread too is meant for All the Vedic-followers...

..irrespetive of Caste or some such Family-background, Heredity or any other Birth-basis.

But the number varies... Brahmins wear One Pair of TWO Poonools...

...while Vaisyas have been stipulated for THREE...

...and in case of Kshathriyas... it is FOUR.

Others.. FIVE.

Sandhyawandana is just a Prayer to Veda-matha... Gayathri... and Nature, especially the Sun.

But both the Poonool and Sandhyawandana.. there are Preveleges, Stipulations, Exceptions, Concessions and Allowances.. according to the Profession / Job one performs...

..similar to the case of Women of any Community.. Not bound to perform such Ceremonies
A Lowkeeka Labourer.. need not constantly wear Poonool... nor perform Sandhyawandhana...

But during any Religious- Ceremony like Homas, Marriage or Functions like Graha-pravesam, Death-Rites etc...

..he should TEMPORARILY wear the Poonool, while he conducts such holy ceremonies.

In case of a Vaidheeka Brahmin... engaged in Sacred duties like Temple-poojas, Homa-conducting as Rithwik, Purohitha, Vedic-Upasakas..etc... he must be ORTHODOX..

...a Process of SOUL-CONDUCT in conjuction with Mind and Body..

...a part of which is Sandhyawandhana... 3 times daily.

But in case of other Brahmins.. Non-Vaidheekas. / Lowkeekas... engaged in Common Wordly duties of Non-Religious Nature...

...like Engineers, Doctors, Lawers, Teachers, Labourers, Clerks and the like...

...they need not be Orthodox and also need not perform daily Sandhyawandana...

...since the Sacred Karmas are linked with Orthodoxy the PRE-QUALIFICATION for any Profession of divinity.

However there is NO EXCEPTION for anybody.. in cases of..

...either CONSTANTLY WEARING POONOOL

...or the performance of ANNUAL CELEBRATION Avani-Avittam...

... the so called APOLOGETIC HUMBLE Prayer. Once in a year.

So to say any Non-Vaidheeka / Lowkeeka Brahmins too.... must perform AVANI-AVITTAM...

...wherever they may be placed... and irrespetive of occupation.

The Main Content of such a Sacred ceremony is.. KAMOKARSHEETH JAPAM...

...which is chanted during every Sandhyawandhanam daily....

...whereas the same Japa is chanted 1008 times on Avani-Avittam day morning as a VRATHAM.. while in Empty Stomach.

...Why? What is Chanted.?

"Kama Akaarsheeth Manyuhu Akaarsheeth Namo Namha".. is the Japa-Manthra chanted repeatedly.

What does it mean.?

Kama Akaarsheeth = My bad quality of Kama (Desire / Greed / Passion) made me commit Mistakes, Misdeeds, Blunders and Sins... so far.

Manyuhu Akaarsheeth = My bad quality of Anger made me commit Mistakes, Misdeeds, Blunders and Sins... so far.

Namo Namaha = I repeatedly pray you...[ Oh.! Sun God (Prathyaksha Soorya-Narayana.!!.. the Earthly Protector)... Kindly Pardon me.! and Please grace me Spiritual Strength for safeguarding myself from such undue Onslaughts overpowering me in future]

My Answer to your Questions :--

(1) For those in India... the Sankalpa-Manthra is... Bharatha Varshae, Bharathah Kantae... etc.

For other countries... it is better to consult the local Purohits.

For those in America it is said differently including the chanting as Amerika Desae"...

... and then step into the Time factor of Year, Month, Day, Nakshthara and Thithi.. as applicable by Panchanga.

(2) Day, Nakshathra, Thithi etc. are to be followed by one and the same Panchanga common for the whole world.... although it varies from Country to Country...

... because the Nakshathra, Thithi calculations are based on the Local time of Sunrise of the respective region.

Eventually the Day and Time of any Celebration... Avani-Avittam, Mahalaya Amavasya, Navarathri, Deepavali, Birth-time of a Newborn in a foreign land... etc. varies from country to country.

Consequently we in USA celebrate Deepavali in our Morning hours... later on after Indian Deepavali time...

...which is the previous Night hours of the same date for India.

Rather ours is subsequent to India-time. Their Sunrise being earlier... while it is yet the Night time for us in USA.

For example, three Children born in USA, Australia and India at a time simultaneously...

...will get three different Birth-stars and Horosopes..

...according to the varied local Sunrise timings from which the Birth-time is calculated.

The same basis applies to any Hindu Celebration... based on Panchangam time.
.

[Vivek4life]

...but Veg,Non-Veg ellame onnu thaan. Ellorum uyirai kola pannurOm! :notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:

apideena, kanRu paal kudikirathai ennanu solluvingal? cows eat non-vege?
how about a newly born baby drinking milk from his/her mom?
on both cases, the moms voluntarily feed their babies.

sorry for the digression.

[Sudhaama]

.
.Why GOPURAM for Temples.?

Gopuram is the Depiction of the Holy Feet of God / Godess within the relevant Temple.

So before entering the Temple.. we bow down at the Holy Feet of the Deity...

..and in such an Apt Mind-culture and the Soul-aptitude of Devotion...

...without Ego or Haughtiness coupled with Purity of Heart...

...we are inspired to proceed towards the Deity within the Temple.

Besides, wherever we are within our Village or Town... Gopuram is the constant Reminder to us...

...to remember the God's grace and maintain Confidence in Life without giving room for Frustration..

..as also get reminded that we are being CONSTANTLY GUARDED...

...by One SUPER-HUMAN Power... irrespective of other Super-powers over us.

Its SILENT MESSAGE .."So Oh Man... Sincerely adhere to Dharma Principles.

... Be righteous to Your Wife / Husband, Children, Family, Friends as well as the Society on the whole...

..plus God... Your Protector... cum Supreme Ruler.

So even if you escape moralities and Law.. You cannot escape from me...

...I am here WATCHING YOU CONSTANTLY."
.

[Arthi]

.
Why PROSTRATE.. Flat on ground before God.?

It carries a High sense of Bodily-Gesture coupled with Mind-culture...UNTOLD...

...but significant EXPRESSION OF HEART.

In Hindu Religion... the term... GOD-FEARING... is the least applicable.

Because the Vedic-followers SELDOM FEAR FOR GOD...

In fact ...according to Science...FAITH IS OPPOSITE TO FEAR...

...and Fear goes away...when Faith gets fortified within Oneself.

That is why all the Gods of Vedic Religion... repeatedly declare..

...YAAM IRUKKA BAYAM YAEN.?...

...meaning... "Why Fear when I am here to Protect You?"

In the initial stages of Mankind... Man considered the Nature-powers as Gods...

...the Thunderstorm is the Threatening Voice of God... Lightning the Threatening Signal...

Natural Fire or Floods or Earthquake, Storm etc. ... mean the Punishment of God..

Thus they considered God as the Freightening Super-Human Power.

Whereas Vedic-Religion..depicts Gods of various Forms and Qualities... but ultimately

...all the Gods are of PARENTAL LOVE... offer to take care of their Earthly Children...

...commensurate with the extent of Faith reposed on any one particular God-form.

So before entering the Temple.. he prostrates before God... conveying the sense...

"Oh! My Great Protector!!.. Without your Grace, I will not be able to advance...

... nor progress fundamentally... nor EVEN EXIST on Earth.

So Your benign grace is quite Vital and imperative for me at every stage...

... I belong to you as your property... as your Child...

...so I depend and TRUST in you... with FULL FAITH... wholly and solely.

...Even the Human-mights you have bestowed me belong to you...

And such of my Human-strengths and Powers are just a pittance or dust... if compared to your Great Mights.

So, before you I consider myself as the Powerless...

...and so considering myself as a DUST BEFORE YOU..

... I surrender at your holy Feet... along with all my Mights you have given me...

...Please show me the right way constantly... so that my Inborn mights can get duly channelised..

...in the proper way... as you my Protector Leader want..and decide.

Oh my dear LOVELY Great... Father / Mother / Protector...

... I seek your unfailing KINDNESS and CONDONEMENT for ever

So I surrender TOTALLY at your holy Feet. ..

I seek your Grace and Pardon.. if I have committed any sins in my present and previous births...

..knowingly or unknowingly.

Engrossed with such a MORAL-SENSE... coupled with PURITY OF HEART... and FIRM FAITH in you..

...I have come to you... and dare to approach you...

... to YOUR PROXIMITY... Sannidhi.

Oh God.!.. Kindly permit me to come nearby..

...and Shower your BENIGN GRACE on me...

...towards my SUCCESS...HAPPINESS... and PROSPERITY.!!
.

Nice Explanation Sudhama ji

Why we have to prostrate GOD before the dwajastaMbham?
Is there any significant reason for that?

[Sudhaama]

.
Why PROSTRATE.. Flat on ground before God.?

It carries a High sense of Bodily-Gesture coupled with Mind-culture...UNTOLD...

...but significant EXPRESSION OF HEART.

In Hindu Religion... the term... GOD-FEARING... is the least applicable.

Because the Vedic-followers SELDOM FEAR FOR GOD...

In fact ...according to Science...FAITH IS OPPOSITE TO FEAR...

...and Fear goes away...when Faith gets fortified within Oneself.

That is why all the Gods of Vedic Religion... repeatedly declare..

...YAAM IRUKKA BAYAM YAEN.?...

...meaning... "Why Fear when I am here to Protect You?"

In the initial stages of Mankind... Man considered the Nature-powers as Gods...

...the Thunderstorm is the Threatening Voice of God... Lightning the Threatening Signal...

Natural Fire or Floods or Earthquake, Storm etc. ... mean the Punishment of God..

Thus they considered God as the Freightening Super-Human Power.

Whereas Vedic-Religion..depicts Gods of various Forms and Qualities... but ultimately

...all the Gods are of PARENTAL LOVE... offer to take care of their Earthly Children...

...commensurate with the extent of Faith reposed on any one particular God-form.

So before entering the Temple.. he prostrates before God... conveying the sense...

"Oh! My Great Protector!!.. Without your Grace, I will not be able to advance...

... nor progress fundamentally... nor EVEN EXIST on Earth.

So Your benign grace is quite Vital and imperative for me at every stage...

... I belong to you as your property... as your Child...

...so I depend and TRUST in you... with FULL FAITH... wholly and solely.

...Even the Human-mights you have bestowed me belong to you...

And such of my Human-strengths and Powers are just a pittance or dust... if compared to your Great Mights.

So, before you I consider myself as the Powerless...

...and so considering myself as a DUST BEFORE YOU..

... I surrender at your holy Feet... along with all my Mights you have given me...

...Please show me the right way constantly... so that my Inborn mights can get duly channelised..

...in the proper way... as you my Protector Leader want..and decide.

Oh my dear LOVELY Great... Father / Mother / Protector...

... I seek your unfailing KINDNESS and CONDONEMENT for ever

So I surrender TOTALLY at your holy Feet. ..

I seek your Grace and Pardon.. if I have committed any sins in my present and previous births...

..knowingly or unknowingly.

Engrossed with such a MORAL-SENSE... coupled with PURITY OF HEART... and FIRM FAITH in you..

...I have come to you... and dare to approach you...

... to YOUR PROXIMITY... Sannidhi.

Oh God.!.. Kindly permit me to come nearby..

...and Shower your BENIGN GRACE on me...

...towards my SUCCESS...HAPPINESS... and PROSPERITY.!!
.

Nice Explanation Sudhama ji

Why we have to prostrate GOD before the dwajastaMbham?
Is there any significant reason for that?

The Region of Sanctity starts from Bali-peetam + Dwaja-Sthambam (Flag-mast of the Deity).

And that is the WELCOME-POINT... or Main-Entrance to the Temple.. (according to Aagama Sasthras)...

... where all the Sub-Deities, Adiyars are waiting... INVISIBLY... to receive the Devotees.

So we are supposed to prostrate ONLY BEFORE such Congregation of Such Adiyars...

...whose Grace and moral support coupled with recommendation... for the Devotee...

...to the Main Deity in that Temple...

..is quite VITAL and INDISPENSABLE.

For example in Vishnu Temples... without the Favour and Kindness from the Sub-Deities...

...like Lord Anjaneya, Garuda Alwar, Alwars and Acharyas..

...the Devotee will not be able to RECEIVE THE GRACE of the Main Lakshmi-Narayana in the Temple.

This is similar to the case of the Welcome point at a Marriage-Hall.

We are not suposed to prostrate at any other point after Dwaja-Sthambam...

...but only pray with Folded hands..

...even in front of the Main Deity... Vishnu / Narayana, there.

In Vishnu-Temples... Acharyas and Jeeyars get a Special Honourable Welcome...

...for specific number of days varying from temple to temple..

...as stipulated in the respective temple.

Such Special Honour is rendered... to the respectable Govt. authorities also...like Prime Minister President and the like.

On that occasion, Perumal HIMSELF waits at this sacred Entry-point to welcome the Honourable Devotee..

...affectionately receives and takes in alongwith Him.

So to say the Battar with SATAARI (Holy-Paduka) of Perumal... can be seen waiting there...

...alongwith Poorna-Kumbham.. amidst chanting Veda-Manthras by a Group...

...even while such Honourable Devotees enter just the Gopuram- Gate itself.

The due Spirit of DEVOTION and FAITH of Devotees...

...God RECIPROCATES.
.

[Arthi]

Thanks Sudhama ji :)

[Arthi]

As we all know that today is Aavani Avittam, I would like to share a small piece of info about Aavani Avaittam

Aavani Avittam isn't just a ceremony to change the sacred thread (poonool) alone. The rituals of Kaamokaarsheeth Japam, Gaandarishi Tharpanam and Gayathri Japam are very important as well. To perform the Kaamokaarsheeth Japam, one has to chant the mantra "Kaamokaarsheen, Manyu rakaar sheeth", 1,008 times. By chanting this, one begs forgiveness from the Lord by saying "I have succumbed to lust and anger and have slipped from my duties".

The three vedas of Rig, Yajur and Sama and their subsects have many acharyas who follow these Vedas. They are known as Gaandarishis. The ritual that is done to pay obeisance to them is only Gaandarishi tharpanam. The gayathri mantra is chanted 108 times to wash away the sins committed by a person, if any mistakes have been committed during his veda induction.

Living in this fast paced world, many have forgotten the reasons behind these rituals and Aavani Avittam has become just a duty to be carried out. Many of our people seem to forgotten the significance behind these ceremonies. According to the Vedas, the upanayanam is applicable to Kshatriyas and Vaisyas also and not just Brahmins. The word "upanayanam" means "take closer". By teaching a lad the gayathri mantra and putting on him the sacred thread of yagnyopaveedham, one is actually taking him close to Brahman. From that day on, he is deemed fit to learn the vedas and practice vedic rites.

The poonool thread yagnyopaveetham means "brahma soothram". The ritual of upanayanam, actually begins with the gayathri mantra. These two are inseparable. The 3 stages as chanted in the Gayathri
"thatsa vithurvarenyam,
bargo devasya dhee mahi
diyo yonah prachodayath",
denote the three strands of thread of the poonool. Similarly, the gayathri starts with the pranava mantra "Om" and continues as "bhoor bhuva suvaha". This is called "Vyahruthi". To denote these, the poonool has three knots, brahma granthi, vishnu granti and rudra granti.

Brahmacharis (bachelors) are made to wear the poonool thread with three strands. After marriage, the number of strands are increased.

According to the Gayathri, the nine strands of the poonool signify
1. Knowledge about the Aathma
2. Procurement of skills
3. Achieving individual greatness
4. Purity
5. A divine mind
6. Honesty
7. Wisdom
8. Humility
9. Service

Courtesy: Google Search

[Badri]

Thanks Arthi!

Very apt and informative into something that people largely do as a one-off!

This is possibly the only time several people remember they have a poonal! :)

[Arthi]

aNNa :notworthy:

How are u?

Can anyone share the rituals follow in Tamil Brahmins' marriage?

[Arthi]

Let me give life to this thread again

MY doubt plz answer this

In some places why do people sacrifice othe living beings like Goat, Hen etc.

What right do we have in killing those creatures in the safest same of sacrifice or in the name of GOD????

[Sudhaama]

.
. Konraal PAAVAM.!..Thinraal Poachu.!!


MY doubt plz answer this

In some places why do people sacrifice othe living beings like Goat, Hen etc.

What right do we have in killing those creatures in the safest same of sacrifice or in the name of GOD????

Hindu Religion does not neglect nor advise to ignore the Meat and Flesh of other Living-beings...

..but it only classifies Food under three Categories as...

..Saathwika, Raajasika and Thaamasika...

..Raajasika and Saathwika foods are prescribed for the respective persons according to the profession one has taken up.

But Thamasika foods have not been prescribed for any... but the Hindu Religion concedes for people to have freedom to take such foods... exceptionally...

... whose living demands mental forbearance... more than other bodily mights..

But it advises to remember... that such third rate foods develop Indolence Laziness and dullness in course of time...

...so not recommended to continue as far as possible.

Intoxicant drugs like Alcohol, Arrack, Toddy, Ganja etc. form part of such Thaamasik type.
For Kings, Warriors and hard Toilers... the Physical might is predominantly the requisite means to carry on their profession...in such cases... RAAJASIKA Food... Flesh Foods

For those who functions more by Wisdom and Brain-application
... such as Judges, Doctors, Teachers etc.. SAATHWIKA FOODS...i.e. Wholly Vegetarian

as well as others whose functions are linked more with Mind and temperaments like Merchants, Salesmen, Watchmen etc... SAATHWEEKA FOODS of mostly Vegetarian

.....For those linked with Spiritual linked Wisdom duties like Temple priests, Vedic Pundits, Gurus... Strict Vegetarian...

...with restriction to avoid even on certain Vegetables like Onions, Garlic, Suraikkaay, Drumstick etc.

As specified in Geetha... The Food whatever one takes is offered to God as a humble duty...

..and after Naivedyam to the deity.. it becomes the Prasadam... the Food graced by the deity.

So a Meat eater offers it to God as also on a Vow... to host in the feast for devotees.

So to say... if one takes up a Vow that he will offer 50 Goats to Mariamman...

...and implements it by BALI DHAANAM..

...such offering is distributed as Prasadam to Devotees of such Rajasika Gods and Godesses like Ammans...

...and other deities...as presecribed in the respective temples.

..KONRAAL PAAVAM.. THINRAAL POACHU...

...the Tamil Proverb means only such a sense.
.

[Sudhaama]

[tscii:cc18043d3f].
.But..! Indeed KILLING for any purpose is SINFUL.!!

"Konraal Paavam Thinraal Poachu" .. is the Village-folks' Proverb...

..Not a part of Sasthras.

It means.. Killing any Living-being is NO DOUBT A SIN but if it is intended for Food it does not cause any Sin.

But what does the Vedic- Sasthras say.? Do they approve or Sanction as the Food-code fit for any section of Humanity.?

Vedic Dharma... so called THE Hindu Religion is a UNIVERSAL RELIGION...

...being imbued with broad-outlook of Global Humanity Spirit..

..coupled with UNIVERSAL-LOVE on all the Living-beings.

Hence it is a PRACTICAL RELIGION... Not stipulating Hard and Fast Rules...

...Nor Rigid. Doctrines and Strict Code of Practice... or Command as MUST, SHOULD and OUGHT..

...but .. AMENABLE to Ground- Realities..

...ADAPTABLE to Embarrassing circumstances…

...ACCOMODATIVE to each and everyone of multi-faceted Individualities amongst the Mosaic Society

...as well as to meet any HELPLESS Paradoxical situations also.

Such a HEALTHY SPIRIT can be better understood from Awatharas.

So to say the Hindu follower has been provided with WIDE-OPTIONS on one side...

..while side by side it also clarifies the allied implications and after-effects hidden behind each option...

..ultimately leaving it to the Discretion by the follower.

Further the Sasthras CONCEDE too... according to Practical circumstances as detailed above.

For example... it is stipulated that before entering any Hindu-Temple ..

...the Devotee MUST TAKE BATH and wear FRESH CLOTHES... so called MADI..

... and Not the previous day's wear ... called AVIZHPPU (wrongly pronounced as "Vizhuppu")

Then it does not mean that under some Practical circumstances, one may not be able to take Bath.

In such cases are they forbidden for Temple Worship.?

Under those unavoidablr circumstances, we can perform Prokshana... Sprinkiling Water on head... chanting the word "Harihi".

If one is unable to do even a Prokshana (Water-Sprinkling on head)...

...in such an exceptional case... lie down flat beneath the Temple Gopuram.. allowing the previous visitor- Devotees Feet-dust get smeared on the body...

...praying for Apology to the Deity and then enter that Temple.

From this we should not deem such EXCEPTIONS as Overall sanction... applicable as a General code.

Similarly KILLING other Living-beings for any purpose and cause is NO DOUBT A SIN.

...but may be condoned and conceded as an exception... upto some extent practically.

However such sins acquired should be mitigated by performing some Parihaaraas and Dharmas as stipulated.

Even Kshathriyas, the Warriors and Kings have not been allowed to eat Meat and Flesh as their Right and Religious Sanction...

...claiming as their qualification bestowed by Birth and Occupation..

Sasthras only say that the Kshathriyas innate with Rajo-Guna...

...should try to develp parallelly SATHVA-GUNA by taking Saathwic-foods (Vegetarian dishes) predominantly... if not wholly.

Vegetarian substances which is very much auxiliary and compatible to calm-temperaments...

..as well as the most Driving might for Applied Wisdom-power coupled with Soul-power lying idle within...
...exclusively provided for the Supreme Earthly creation HUMAN-BIRTH ONLY.

Saathwic foods ... Vegetarian... develops BALANCE OF MIND...

... free from Emotions and IMPULSIVE DECISIONS ... typical for Mankind...

...born with the highly Sensitive and the most powerful Tri-Mights of Mind, Wisdom and Soul.

Since the Kshathriyas basically are the Decision-makers for the Society similar to a Judge...

..such rare combination of Human-mights... are quite essential for them too.

And even War with other Countries should be avoided by tactful means..

...but not by Combative or Dominating attitude

So the Army Warrior force must be intended ONLY FOR DEFENCE necessitating any occasional War-demands

...but NOT AGGRESSION. out of Greed and Dominative approach.

So even if the Kshathriya eats Flesh for gaining Wild-might it must be only temporary for inevitable short periods.

And such Sins caused have to be mitigated by Pariharas.

So even Balidhana to God is NOT ENCOURAGED nor approved by Sasthras...

...but only conceded as an EXCEPTION... since KILLING is no doubt a SERIOUS SIN

..for any Case, Cause and Purpose.

Because one of the Crown-Doctrines of Vedic Gospels is...

. AHIMSA PARAMO DHARMA..!!!
.
.[/tscii:cc18043d3f]

[Arthi]

[tscii:496c769fdb]
Let me give life to this thread again


In some places why do people sacrifice othe living beings like Goat, Hen etc.

What right do we have in killing those creatures in the safest same of sacrifice or in the name of GOD????


I found an article by "Chanchal Malviya" on the net, which is given below

It answers my quest


The process of Brahman, the clarified butter is Brahman, offered by Brahman in the fire of Brahman; by seeing Brahman in action, he reaches Brahman alone.’ – Verse 24 from bhagawad gita.

The book first establishes a reason behind those sacrifices and beliefs. It says – first important thing is to understand that we act as per our perception and attitude. The ultimate goal achieved is totally based on our own configuration of understanding, nature and actions. Brahman is a stage of ultimate knowledge about Life, God and Creation. And even the stage of Brahman is achieved by rendering ourselves, dedicating our desire (that burns as fire within us), our vision and actions towards the process of Brahman. Here, starts the concept of offering, offering the very self to a Brahman, if Brahman is the fire (desire) within to be achieved.

‘Some Yogis perform sacrifices to Devas alone, while others offer the self as sacrifice by the self in the fire of Brahman alone’. Verse 25.

First part of the sentence starts talking about sacrifice to Deities, but do not clarify what is sacrificed. The second part reflect similar offering as in previous verse –the self sacrifice in the fire of knowledge (Complete dedication towards learning of truth).

‘Some again offer hearing and other sense as sacrifice in the fire of control, while others offer sound and other sense-object as sacrifice in the fire of the senses.’ – Verse 26.

It requires deeper knowledge to understand ‘sacrifice of sense-object in the fire of senses’. Vedas describes five basic work-sense organs and another five knowledge-sense organs. It describes the objectives of these sense organs and also binds them to the mind and ego of a person. Above sentence, by using ‘fire’ as a metaphor, indicates that it requires huge effort and continuous practice to control our mind’s motivation driven by the senses. In order to attain this control, a person has to sacrifice many desires and concentrate on the self, which is what the true meaning of Yoga is – as we will see ahead.

‘Some again offer all the actions of senses and the functions of the vital energy, as sacrifice in the fire of control in Self, kindled by knowledge’. – Verse 27.

Again it requires understanding what the actions of senses are and how are they different from the senses itself. What is meant above by vital energy? I have already mentioned above about ‘fire’ being correlated to the power of control in self.

‘Others again offer wealth, austerity, and Yoga, as sacrifice, while still others, of self-restraint and rigid vows, offer study of the scriptures and knowledge, as sacrifice’ – Verse 28

And last of all, it has mentioned few of the practices performed in those days, when Bhagwad Geeta was written, some 5000 years ago. People at most offered wealth, austerity and rigid vows as sacrifice. Probably, this was the limit as further in the whole book; I never found anything about killing of animals as sacrifice. I have, thus every reason to believe that the practices has come into practice only after invasions.

Anyway, what I found in the books was exactly what I had known about the religion. There was nothing about killing of animals and the knowledge was astoundingly of highest level, as I had always known.

Moreover, offerings and sacrifices as a culture inculcates a very positive attitude in individual and binds the society on ground of human values. I wonder how pure would be those days when people respected Brahmins and Brahmins would live upon the ‘Dan-Dakshina’ of people. The corrupted English version of ‘Dan-Dakshina’, is ‘Donation-Commission’. Actually, now we find people criticizing Brahmins for asking ‘Dakshina’ and they immediately categorize them as greedy. Unfortunately, they have forgotten that it is our culture to look beyond the greed of holding more and more property and help growth of healthy society. The first attitude that builds with the practice of ‘Dan’ is that we get freed from the feeling of Greed and attitude of holding things. The west practices the pride to take and hold, while we practice the pride to give and get satisfied. The power to give (‘Dan’) immediately takes our attitude to build satisfaction with whatever we hold – this is the hardest thing we find in the world to be gained – and it was so easily achievable in the ancient Hindu culture. There are numerous examples of such powers, Raja Daksh, Raja Harishchandra are very well known names, for example. The power to give also confirms with one’s ability to hold the power to build. Every individual, irrespective of their Varna, had the power to give ‘Dan’. This practice had many indirect attitude build effect in disguise. Respect towards Brahmins and poor immediately killed individual arrogance and helped him to learn and earn more and live a satisfied life. Fortunately, it still exists in some shape – what is needed is to regain it with respect and in pure forms. This might look absurd to people brought up under western education style, but let them then come up with a suggestion of how would they evolve a culture of highly satisfied society, a society that knew to respect Worshippers of Lord, a society that knew to regard Guru and elders, a society that had every children free from diseases and mental illness.

[/tscii:496c769fdb]

[aanaa]

great thread Aarthi
evenually you have found the answer

ALWAYS
thirst will be quenched

[bingleguy]

... and Not the previous day's wear ... called AVIZHPPU (wrongly pronounced as "Vizhuppu")

i never knew this .... :shock: till date i ve been hearing it as Vizhuppu only ........ Thanks Sudhamaa ji ......

its water that makes the difference .... can u also explain the importance of water for us ????

[Sudhaama]

.
.ORTHODOXY.!.. What.?... Why.?... How.?

Pertains to ALL.?... Or WHOM.? ... WHY.?

.Before I answer these Questions... I welcome a discussion by one and all of you.

. Welcome please.
.

[Shakthiprabha]

My question is this.

What is called being ORTHODOX? Following scriptures? rules? IF yes, to what extent are we doing it these days? and is it necessary?

[Raghu]

shakthi acca

do u watch that 'enge bramanan' drama, i can c that in ur avatar, t is very interesting drama!

[Sudhaama]

shakthi acca

do u watch that 'enge bramanan' drama, i can c that in ur avatar, t is very interesting drama!

Dear Raghu,

I am sorry to say... that I am surprised to note...

...that you are diverting and diluting the seriousness of the topic... into just a chat...

..rather a digression... I request you DELETE.

If you have anything to say on this point raised on Orthodoxy...

... pertaining to not only the Religious servicemen in temples and Vedic chanters....

...but applicable to all the common devotees too in general...

..yes, you are welcome to put forth here.

Otherwise please allow others attention to be drawn to the questions raised here by Shakthiprabha and myself.

.I am eagerous to know the views of all... please
.

[Sudhaama]

.
.ORTHODOXY.!.. What.?... Why.?... How.?

Pertains to ALL.?... Or WHOM.? ... WHY.?
.

Orthodoxy is NOT CONFINED to the Vedic-Culture... so called Hindu Religion alone...


... but a Common-practice amongst all the Devotees... of one and all Religions...

..especially stipulated so, for the Noble personages... involved in the sacred duties... towards God... in some forms as Rituals.

So to mean... even an Imam or Moulwi of Islam... Father or Bishop of Christianity... Bouddha Sangam saint or Priests of Buddhism conforming to Dhammapada....

...parallel to Hindu Holy servicemen involved in maintenance of Sanctity like those... Temple Sanctum Sanctorum Gurukkalh / Pothi / Poojari / Battar / Priests... Vedic-Chanters / Odhuvars / Arulhi-cheyal Goshti chanters.... Yaga Homa Rithwiks... and the like too.!

Not only such Religious professionals... but also even the Commonmen is bound to be orthodox upto the basic demands... while dealing with Godly pursuits...

..such as for Temple-worship, Ritualistic performances like Marriage, Gruha-pravesam, Death ceremonies etc.

Why.? What is the purpose and Significance of ORTHODOXY.?

There are THREE SORTS of Professions or Occupations for Mankind.

(1) One is the sort of Manual PHYSICAL-WORK involving more of Physical might than the Brain-work... so to mean, the least of Wisdom... like unskilled Labourers, Weight-carriers, Cart-pullers, Watchmen etc.

(2) Second is the sort of such professions involving more of BRAINWORK... than the Physical might... such as Teachers, Doctors, Lawyers, Engineers, Skilled workmen etc.

(3) Third is the sort of such professions involving more of SOUL-POWER... than the Brainwork and Physical work... rather those who are engaged in Religious rituals... approaching the Super human power... so called God...

..who can be dealt with ...ONLY BY THE HUMAN SOUL-POWER...more than Wisdom and Physical means.

The First profession can be performed only by those who are the Physically best and strong enough... to perform untiring physical toil manually.

The Second profession can be performed only by those who are the best by Wisdom and Knowledge power gained by apt and adequate education... commensurate with the status of the post occupied.

Whereas the Third category profession... in dealing with Religious rituals and Devotional practices...cannot be performed by anybody who may be strong enough physically or by Wisdom and Educatioal knowledge...

..but ONLY BY ORTHODOX PRACTICE... from early days of Boyhood... alongside the respective Religious Professional Education

That is why.. even learning Vedas is called VEDA-ABHYAASAM.... and NOT VEDIC EDUCATION...

...unlike the Brain involving professionals like Medicals, Lawers and Ministers... who have NOTHING TO DO WITH SOUL-POWER.

So the First and the Second category professionals are called LOWKEEKAS... while the Orthodox servicemen are called VAIDHEEKAS.

Rather ONLY SUCH VAIDHEEKAS who get qualified by Orthodox practices from Boyhood... can perform with adequate inner power by Soul alongside Wisdom and the basic Physical Human-might...

...on such Religious commitments of invoking the SUPER-HUMAN God's grace for the specific purpose of Ritual.

Rather only a Vaidheeka trained by Orthodox practice by Soul-power... right from Boyhood....

...is qualified to perform the Ritualistic duties...

Even a brother of a Vaidheeka imbued in Orthodoxy.... from one and the same Family... is NOT ALLOWED to perform... just by means of BOOKISH KNOWLEDGE... if he is just a Lowkeeka....

Lowkeekas of any Parentage or Family-background... are not allowed to enter the Garbhagruham (Sanctum sanctorum) of Temples.... nor for any Rituals at Homes too.!

Yes. The practice of Orthodoxy purifies and improves the Soul-power....

...since so stipulated for Devotional Services... in the Hindu Vedic Sasthras.!!!...

..parallel to other Religions too.!
.
.

[bingleguy]

amazing Sudhamaa ji ...

lowkeekam and vaidheegam .... i ve seen these words in usage - and felt their creamy meanings ... but have never thought or learned in quite detail..... many thanks for the same ...

you would absolutely know the situation of the clan today - we hear that ppl can apply for the post of priest in temples !!!!! i dont understand that part - rather i dont want to indulge in discussing about ppl who wanted to implement that ...

but what i am trying to understand is - what is it that takes a person to be in the vaidheegam clan today? Has this just been viewed as a profession ? isnt it something more than that ?

[Sudhaama]

.
Orthodoxy NOT JUST a BRAIN-KNOWLEDGE of Education

..but a SOUL PRACTICE... of purity and Sanctity..

... gained by strict training, right from Childhood.!



amazing Sudhamaa ji ...

lowkeekam and vaidheegam .... i ve seen these words in usage - and felt their creamy meanings ... but have never thought or learned in quite detail..... many thanks for the same ...

you would absolutely know the situation of the clan today - we hear that ppl can apply for the post of priest in temples !!!!! i dont understand that part - rather i dont want to indulge in discussing about ppl who wanted to implement that ...

but what i am trying to understand is - what is it that takes a person to be in the vaidheegam clan today? Has this just been viewed as a profession ? isnt it something more than that ?

I believe you know that it was Ramanujacharya about One Thousand years back... fought against this Menace of MISCONSTRUITION of Vedic Terminologies...

...ascribing Communal basis for Temple entry and such other Devotional norms for Mankind...

..prescribed by the Vedas ina high optimistic sense ... of Broad Humanity.

He won over all the Counter-arguments... barring the Unorthodox commoners to enter the Temples for worship...

..and he took with him into the Temple... all the devotees of all sections of Society.. irrespective of Orthodoxy as a Qualification.

... until then misconceptionally adopted by some Fanatics.

But we must also understand another relevent factor...

Even that great Acharya who took a bold step to antagonise the elite Scholars...

..for the sake of Social equanimity and Moral justice to all the Hindus...

...did not concede on one claim and request... to ignore orthodoxy in all respects.

Yes. When some unorthodox devotees sought his permission to chant Vedas as also perform the Religious services as a Priest within the Sanctum Sanctorum (Garbha-griham)...

..he categorically REFUSED ... but advised all of them thus.

If anybody of any segment of society... irrespective of his family by birth...

..wants to perform Orthodox duties...

.. he can be authorised in the Temples and elsewhere..
...only if brought up from childhood in an orthodox family.... by means of stringent practice of Vedic norms as prescribed.

Such a norm is followed for the Temple priests and Vedic-Chanters even now-a-days... irrespective of one's Family-background.

Yes. Orthodoxy has to be learnt by practice from childhood... and not just by School education... like other Subjects of Brain knowledge.

Orthodoxy is NOT JUST a KNOWLEDGE...

..but a SOUL PRACTICE... to be gained, right from Childhood.!
.
.

[bingleguy]

.
If anybody of any segment of society... irrespective of his family by birth...

..wants to perform Orthodox duties...

.. he can be authorised in the Temples and elsewhere..
...only if brought up from childhood in an orthodox family.... by means of stringent practice of Vedic norms as prescribed.

Sudhamaa ji ... did u mean Orthodox learning place / paatashaalaa ?

[Sudhaama]

.
If anybody of any segment of society... irrespective of his family by birth...

..wants to perform Orthodox duties...

.. he can be authorised in the Temples and elsewhere..
...only if brought up from childhood in an orthodox family.... by means of stringent practice of Vedic norms as prescribed.

Sudhamaa ji ... did u mean Orthodox learning place / paatashaalaa ?

Dear "bingleguy"

My posting clearly states...

..."only if brought up from childhood in an orthodox family"....

..Yes ..By the Orthodox Foster-Parents.!

We must remember Lord Krishna although was born to a Kshathriya parents... Vasudeva -Devaki,,,

..He identified and proudly declared that He belonged to YADAVA Community... and that His Parents were Nandagopa-Yasodha.

Karna declared proudly... that he was the RAADHEYA-PUTHRA... the ("Raadheya" named Chart- Drivers Son)...

..by the implied sense of BROUGHT UP only.

Yes. Vedic Scriptures clearly assert.. that Ones Parentage or Family...

...is only considered ...as to where and how was he was brought up.

...and NOT THE PARENTAGE...by birth.

As already said... Orthodoxy is a LIVING-PRACTICE... on Body, Mind, Wisdom... and ones own SOUL above all....

So to mean... right from the time of Wake-up upto the Bed-time.. the Life gets well-disciplined on the whole...

..by means of PURITY IN ALL RESPECTS... leading to SANCTITY a SOUL-QUALIFICATION...

..which is the MOST IMPORTANT to gain the Grace of God...

...for the benefit of Oneself as also for the sake of Other devotees depending on the Vaidheekas on their Life...

..in the capacities as GURUKKALH, POTHI, BHAT, BHATTAR, POOJARI, PUROHITH, VEDIC-CHANTER, Yaga-performing RITHWIK... and so on.

Yes. Vaidheekam is the Overall Qualification... learned by Abhyaasam (Practice like Bi-Cycling and Swimming)

...especially by SOUL for gaining SANCTITY..!
.

[bingleguy]

Well in that case .... one can become a brahman.. that it is just not a brahman by birth, but brahman by brought-up ... forgive me, if this question was absurd.....

"Living-Practice" - well-said ...

" Purity in all respects " - can somebody live up to it ? is this practically possible?

[Sudhaama]

.
You can choose Life.!.. as you want.!!.. declare Vedas.!!!


Well in that case .... one can become a brahman.. that it is just not a brahman by birth, but brahman by brought-up

Yes. By all means... if you have chosen to SINCERELY live as a Brahman.. true to your conscience.!...

...seeking MOKSHA / MUKTHI.... (LIBERATION FROM REBIRTHS) ONLY... very soon... directly.!..

...forsaking and ignoring the Wordly pleasures... available at hands.



" Purity in all respects " - can somebody live up to it ? is this practically possible?

Yes. It is possible and has to be made possible.. by those who has adopted any Vaidheeka profession.

For Commoners like you and me... we have to be orthodox at relevent occasions...

..like Temple-worship, Holy ceremonies and such other occasions pertinent to Sanctity.

In brief, what is your Ultimate Ambition and Goal in Life... alongside your day-to-day expectations from God... is the Deciding factor.

Moksha.?... Earthly Life-Pleasures.?... Success over others.?... Richness by Money-Wealth.?

I have written in detail on the Vedic stipulations in this regard.. under my Tamil Serial Article of our Hub Magazine.. AUGUST 2009 Issue....

..under Paragraph: 2.

- Thamizh Marhai Thiruvaaymozhi - 37.

http://www.mayyam.com/unicode/cgi-bin/t2u.cgi?url=http://hubmagazine.mayyam.com/aug09/?t=13274

...as clarified well.. by Mr. Max Muller the German Christian, Multi-Scholar.. (who has translated Vedas and Upanishads from Sanskrit to English...

...as well as praised the Hinduism ( Vedic-Religion) very highly in the Global Forums..

...addressing Westerners, who until then had a very poor impression of self-conception... Fanatic inference... and a wrong image on Vedic doctrines...

...as the RIDICULOUS Tribal-cult.!!!.

After going through my above article.. if you need any further clarification... you can ask me there.
.

[Sudhaama]

.

.
Vedic-Sasthras IRRESPONSIBLE.?... without FORESIGHT.?


...Encouraging LOOSE CHARACTER.?


...Facilitating creation of INNOCENT Hyppies.?... UNCARED FOR Children.?


NON-COMMITTAL towards Consequences on Society at large.?





...

- On SUN TV.. Serial Drama: THIRU-PAVAI

.................................
.
I am surprised to note the Character named Desikachari... a Purohit Pandit..

...often making some funny statements... MISLEADING about Hindu Vedic Sasthras' stipulations..!

One such statement is...

That the Hindu sasthras permit and authorize a Woman... for a second marriage...

..under FIVE Circumstances.!


(1) If she becomes a Widow.

(2) If her Husband has deserted her... and declared so.

(3) If the Husband has absconded and his whereabouts are not known.

(4) If he becomes impotent.

(5) If he becomes seriously sick as invalid.

No doubt some of these causes can justify... the DIVORCE petition by the aggrieved consort ...

...according to the current Hindu Laws in India.

But do the Vedic Sasthras too authorize so.?

I think... in some of the above cases... Sasthras do not authorize...

Because if authorized so liberally...

..without any role for her close Relatives and Well-wishers as well as the Commoin Society....

... there can be heavy and frequent Divorce petitions... resulting in innumerable REMARRIAGES...

....within a short duration of Marriages.!...

..resulting in heavy population of Hyppies... a new Generation of Wagabonds... with Un-Known Parents.!... or Parent-deserted.!

..similar to the current USA and some such Western countries.!.
.

.

[Sudhaama]

.

. DELETED.

.

[skanthan]

Please can someone send me the lyrics of "acchan oru naamam" as well as some other Ayyappa bhajans via PM? I prefer just some short bhajans of about 1 or 2 - 5 stanzas which will be easy to set to any ragas.. I do have the lyrics of the stotras, "Harivarasanam" and "Dharmasastha Pancharatnam". Thank you. Jai Karunamayi!

[Sudhaama]

.
.
What Vedic-sasthras stipulate on MARRIAGE.?

Quote:

TV Serial THIRUp-PAAVAI... MIS-LEADS the Viewers.!

http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?p=1898131&sid=e9555734a1a320476ab2923b1f18f954#1898131

.
.

[Sudhaama]

.

What Hindu Vedic-Doctrines stipulate on Marriage.?


According to Hinduism... similar to Catholic Christianity...

...Marriage is a SACRAMENT... NOT AN AGREEMENT... as classified by others.

"Sacrament"... SACRED COMMITMENT"... as committed to God...

...since approved by Him.. on the appeal by both the Parties concerned...

...prior to the holy Wedding ceremony...

Wedding is HIGHLY VALUED... as the SOUL-UNION... of Two Souls.. Bride and the Groom.

Sex too is holy... since the Wife offers herself totally... by Body, Heart and Soul... only to her Husband...

..unlike any other Human-relations

And so Hinduism do not authorise Divorce... JUST ON THE BASIS OF SEXUAL needs and the related Competence Consideration.

..because if so allowed.. Marriage will become a VERY CHEAP AFFAIR...

..Especially the Women-folk.... whom the Vedic -doctrine regards very high... as the EMULATIVE EXAMPLE for HUMAN-VALUES.!

Yes... Dharma-Pathni and the Motherhood are the Topmost status... Highest of Human-values.. according Hinduism.

However Hinduism practically concedes and relaxes the Regulations...

..commensurate with subsequent development after the Wedding.

..Not on SEXUAL FACTOR... but on the Violation and fAILURE of Reciprocal commitment of the Husband.

But even under such extreme circumstances.. culminating in Desertion or Destitution...

..her Guardian Father / Brothers / Uncles.. Only have to intervene and solve the Problem.

...including Re-Marriage with another Groom.

Widows Re-marriage with another Husband is NOT AUTHORISED BY VEDIC-DOCTRINES...

..although now permissible by Law.
..

[skanthan]

Earlier, I read on a website about vastu in which it staed that ones puja room (home shrine???) should never be kept in the bedroom. Also it says that the washroom should not be attached to the room where the altar is being kept, which is understandable. Though, it gave allowance to keeping ones shrine in the kitchen. Otherwise, this statement puzzled me. Because, from September 30th 1996 until April 1st 2003 and again from April 1st 2003 until April 1st 2004 (A period of about 7 and a half years), I lived with people who were Christian and in that time I kept my altar in my bedroom, out of respect to them, of course and also for the sake of my own privacy. My bedroom in the first place I lived in had an attached bedroom, the door of which I always kept closed. But my altar sat in an area of my bedroom far away from the bathroom. Does vastu shastra make acceptions to this rule? Meaning in a stuation in which one is living with people who are not Hindu, does vastu allow keeping ones altar in ones bedroom? I always imagined that being a very liberal religion, Hinduism makes certain acceptions. Please could someone shed more light on this?

[Sudhaama]

.

What do the Hindu Vedic -Agamas stipulate.?


Anybody of POOJA-KNOWLEDGE... Qualified for ARCHAKA (Temple Priest).?



In the Current Scientifically advanced era....

....almost every activity has been mechanised...

Eventually Manual activity has been minimised ...due to the adequate Supportive facilities of Engines and Scientific gadgets...

...enabling Mankind to achieve great task-results with LEAST BODILY EXERTION

For example.... During the last era....for the Military force.... the Bodily might used to be the Topmost priority criteria...

..irrespective of any Education.... even the basic Literacy

But now-a-days it is mostly Mechanical Weaponry support... than by Physical exertion....

....and the basic education is a must... even for a Jawan.

Thus even the Military force of Might-demand is able to function well with least Manual Strength of the Operators

....since equipped with Scientific and Mechanical weapons

In the previous Manual-Era...because of Manual Compatibility demand for every career was most important.

... the parents used to train their Children in the respective Career of their Choice....

...right from the Childhood of Three year age of the Student....

....by means of Homely excercises... as relevent to the Occupation planned....

...similar to taming the Bulls Horses and Elephants... right from tender age.


Whereas this profession of Archaka CONTINUES TO BE ENTIRELY MANUAL... Then, Now and for Ever.

Some people in power are under WRONG NOTION...

....that similar to any other Profession or Skillful occupation...

....anybody of the respective Professional Knowledge by education and training from any stage of life.... alone is ENOUGH...

....and will be capable to perform.... ANY PROFESSION... at par with anyone else of the respective professional competence.

Whereas this Nobe task is ENTIRELY MANUAL... more by Human-Soul appeal....

.... alongside Physical-practice on Orthodoxy coupled with Rituals of Sanctity... right from early days of life.

Because for any such Noble services of SANCTITY.... Human-Soul Qualification is the most important.... and PRIMARY QUALIFICATION

..more than the Professional Knowledge on the respective Career / Profession.


Soul Qualification can be gained NOT BY BRAIN KNOWLEDGE... Nor Education....

....but by Spiritual practice right from Childhood.... of about Three year age.


Alongside such practice... the Student must be STRICTLY ORTHODOX Bodily, Heartily and other respects.

.So the Family brought up from the Childhood of about Three year age is most vital....

,,on ORTHODOXY... including the Basic Daily SANDHYA-VANDHANAM Thrice every day.... from the Age of Seven....

....Concurrent with SOUL-PRACTICE and Education on the respective Noble profession

.

[Sudhaama]

[tscii:154375bc46].
.


LADIES NOT ALLOWED perform Religious Ceremonies.?


-- although Wife a MUST, for Homas, Marriage-rituals and the like--


-- as a Joint-functionary / Co-Ordinator as DHARMA-PATHNI.?



There are several reasons. The most important ones are :--


(1)All the Religious Rituals are performed by the UNIFIED MIGHTS sourced from the Three sorts of Energies of the Conductor – Body, Mind and SOUL. ---

--the Most important is the person’s SOUL-POWER--

--which can be conserved and preserved only by means of Orthodoxy, in case of the common Mankind.

The conduct of Orthodoxy commences from the Purity and developed further towards INNER SANCTITY--- to become qualified to perform such Holy Rituals.

It is HUMANLY IMPOSSIBLE for a Lady, especially as the Mother—to maintain such a high standard of Purity and Inner-Sanctity by Soul-qualification.

(2) Normally the Ladies are already overburdened by way of Household duties as the Wife, Mother and the HOME-MAKER.

So the Vedic-Religion does not want to further OVER-BURDEN the Ladies, by means of the Leading-commitment as the Performer.

(3) According to Bhagawad-Geetha and the Vedic Sasthras, the names BRAHMANA, VAISYA, KSHATHRIYA and SOODHRA are ONLY THE NAMES of THREE GUNAS (Propensities / Qualities)---

--innate / inborn in every Human by birth itself—in varied proportions between person to person.

--and they do not mean the Caste-names – which are MAN-MADE.


Every Mother is SOODHRA by her Guna (Qualities)--

---irrespective of Caste, Religion or any such segments of Society..


How and Why.?

Soodhra quality is the Mind-culture to practically accommodate and concede with the sub-standards, ignore the omissions and commissions on any task and duties involved--

--plus the Service-minded principle, ignoring the self-status nor prestige.

--as can be seen in a Mother towards her children, more than the Father and others as well.

Besides, any wife neither need nor should feel GUILTY-CONSCIOUS while in Bed-room with her husband-- if her feet get contact with her husband ot the like. She must ignore and concede as Natural.

Her babies often make their Mother dirty by several ways. But a true mother will not mind them, but maintains a WELL-BALANCED MIND--- by means of Mind-culture.

--whereas such impurities by sub-standard approach are impediments for the highest standard of Orthodoxy needed to perform Religious rituals.

However since she as the Wife is the Qualified DHARMA-PATHNI to join and share the Family commitments alongwith her husband—

--the Wife is INDISPENSABLE for any Religious rituals as a CO-ORDINATOR of Light-duties only.

.Not only the Mother, the God too rules over the whole world by approach of SOODHRA-QUALITY only.---

--through HIS holy FEET --- Charana-Kamalam--

--which is symbolized by His Feet shape as Thirumanh or so called Naamam.

--similar to the Milk-bust Teats of the Cow for its Calf.

Yes. Paramathma Narayana’s Holy feet symbolizes, the Mother’s Quality---

--- the SOODHRA-HOOD-- Selfless Service-minded attitude. !!!



.[/tscii:154375bc46]

[PARAMASHIVAN]

[tscii:4224c9bc5e]The main problem with Hinduism and Hindu rituals is that unlike other religions, 99% of the so called 'Hindus' have not got a clue about this 'ONLY' scientific religion which explains the past, present and the future of the cosmos

Yet we are very 'poor Practitioners’ of our faith, compared to other faiths.

If one looks deep into Hinduism we find there is a meaning for every single ritual we perform. Sadly 'unlike' other religion we have no dominant leader to preach the ethics.

We go to a temple, Iyer chants in Sanskrit which 99.99% of us don't have a clue as to what he says, there is abisheham, aarthi, thiruvizha.. etc. but no one knows the essence of that, we simply go to temple and chant ' Siva Siva' , give me that, give me that, look after x, y z and come.

It is bad time the temple management do some lectures in temples, and educates devotees rather than using the temple to collect donations. This will lead to more ignorant amongst us. Most of us don’t have a thorough understanding of our faith hence we look like moppets, when people of other faith ask about our faith
[/tscii:4224c9bc5e]

[NOV]

Raghu, the main tenet of Hinduism is you change yourself, not attempt to change others.

Thus, if you spend time seeking knowledge, you wouldn't have posted the above.

[Sudhaama]

.


Well-said Dear NOV




Raghu, the main tenet of Hinduism is you change yourself, not attempt to change others.

Thus, if you spend time seeking knowledge, you wouldn't have posted the above.


His criticism on the Vedic Manthras chanted in Temples is FUNNY.!

Has he observed other Religions comparatively.?

After the advent of Swami Vivekananda the whole world started looking at the so called Hinduism differently and optimistically.

Further it was much fortified by the deep clarification and appreciation by the renowned German Multi-faceted Scholar Dr Max muller---

---on Hinduism as the MOST SCIENTIFIC RELIGION

People started valuing Hinduism as a Religion at least including the Hindus.

Now-a-days there are ample Reference books on the various aspects and tenets of the Vedic Religion Hinnduism.

And so anybody seeking Knowledge by the Vedic Sense on the ONE AND THE ONLY COMMON GOD for the whole Humanity---

--although He / She is named different and the Paths and Pursuits varied.

So if Paramashivan wants to say something interesting he is welcome.

Or else he can raise his doubts if any, even after referring to authoritative Reference books and Online Websites--

We are prepared to reply and clarify further to anybody---

--- who is REALLY OPEN-MINDED.

.
.

[PARAMASHIVAN]

Raghu, the main tenet of Hinduism is you change yourself, not attempt to change others.



I know that, I am not trying to change anything, all I am saying is most hindu's are ignorant of the real science of our religion , that is a fact, that is the reality



Thus, if you spend time seeking knowledge, you wouldn't have posted the above.
[/quote]

I keep on telling, knowledge is based on the info we get from your five senses, that varies from person to person depending on the environment you are exposed to , there is not a 'universal' definition of knowledge!

so your definition knowledge varies to my definition of knowledge, this is 'common' sense !!!

[PARAMASHIVAN]

.


His criticism on the Vedic Manthras chanted in Temples is FUNNY.!

Has he observed other Religions comparatively.?



It is VERY Funny, you did not understand my point ! What i said Vedic Manthras are not explained to 'common' hindus in the temple?

This why I said , such preaching about the values of mantras should be introduced in temples!

[NOV]

So, you are superior to the poor ignorant Hindus?

That's why they say a little knowledege is a dangerous thing.

Also, a full vessel cannot be filled further.

Heard of the proverb, நிறை குடம் தழும்பாது?

[PARAMASHIVAN]

Meat eating is forbidden in Hinduism, how many of you Hindus follow this? :huh: First of all follow the 'basic' principals of Hinduism, before talking about Hinduism :x

[NOV]

Meat eating is forbidden in Hinduism, how many of you Hindus follow this? :huh: First of all follow the 'basic' principals of Hinduism, before talking about Hinduism :x

1. Where is it stated?

2. Who appointed you as a leader for Hindus?

[PARAMASHIVAN]

So, you are superior to the poor ignorant Hindus?



you are not understanding what I am saying, I dont know what mantras are being said by iyar and it's meaning, this is what I am saying they should explain to common hindus like me and you, I am sure you do not understand what Mantras are being chanted and the meanings

[PARAMASHIVAN]

Meat eating is forbidden in Hinduism, how many of you Hindus follow this? :huh: First of all follow the 'basic' principals of Hinduism, before talking about Hinduism :x

1. Where is it stated?

2. Who appointed you as a leader for Hindus?

This is why little knowledge is extremley dangerous :wave:

[PARAMASHIVAN]

Nov

You follow ISKON right? It looks like you have not read any books by ISKON founder Sripala Bhativedananta prapudha . If you have you wouldn't have asked such questions


Nirai kudam indeed thazumpathu :wave:

[Sudhaama]

.


MEAT-EATING... is Not Forbidden...


... in Hinduism,


But.... NOT ENCOURAGED.!





Meat eating is forbidden in Hinduism, how many of you Hindus follow this? :huh: First of all follow the 'basic' principals of Hinduism, before talking about Hinduism :x



Geetha clarifies that the Mankind is the MOST SUPERIOR Birth ...

-- mainly because Mankind only is endowed with SOUL-POWER...

...which No other Creature on Earth possesses, however mighty they be in other aspects.

That Soul power only makes the Man... RULE OVER THE WHOLE EARTH...

...alongside DOMINATING over all other creatures..

..as also TRULY ENJOY by making Earthly Paradise.

So every Man irrespective of his/her profession, occupation and Social segments,

...should constantly endeavour to RAISE ONESELF... BY ONES OWN,

...wholly utlizing the Soul power, synchronising with his Super Wisdom and Mind-might.

In that pursuit, MEAT-EATING WILL BE AN IMPEDIMENT or Retardating INTERFERENCE

---on his endeavour to meaningfully and Truly LIVE, ENJOY, UPLIFT and ADVANCE as the Superior birth intended.

Food is an important factor in Shaping, Nurturing and Channelising ones Qualities / Propensities.

Every Man is compounded of Three Complex Qualities --- Sathva, Rajo and Thaamasa Gunas.

Meat-Eating gradually kills Sathva Guna, which is the Most important Propensity to maintain Wisdom and Soul-power.

Rather Meat-Eating in course of time, makes him lose his innate might to CONTROL EMOTIONS and EMOTIONARY DECISIONS in Life.

Food is chosen by Mankind by Two factors mainly.

(1) Availability (2) Need of his Occupation / Profession.

Meat renders PHYSICAL MIGHT very Quickly... especially Muscle-Strength,

....whereas by means of Vegetarian Foods too, Muscle-power can be gained... but ONLY SLOWLY.

So the professionals who are engaged as Warrior or some such occupations, where his Physical might is the most vital Need for his functions...

...MEAT-EATING IS ALLOWED AND PERMITTED within the MINIMUM REQUIREMENT .

And No doubt, Meat-Eating is SINFUL TOO.!

So in the interest of Ones own pursuit to REALLY LIVE AS MAN. by utilizing his high Mights of Soul, Wisdom and Mind...

--without allowing the Over-powering of his Emotions on his Decision-making...

Mankind is advised to avoid, as far as possible eating Non-Vegetrarian Foods.

However in case of those engaged in NOBLE PROFESSIONS,

--like the Medicals, Teaching, Social-Services, Temple Services and Vedic practices for the Society---

--they should must and ought to strictly be confined to Vegetarian Foods only, only and only...

...under any Circustances.

Because Non Veg Foods will obstruct, divert and interfere in his Decison-making and approach on problems..


...by means of creation of UNDUE and Dangerous EMOTIONAL SPUR within him.!

... Working Counter to his Good Intentions...

...being a Human, the INNATE SUPREME.!!!

.

[NOV]

you are not understanding what I am saying, I dont know what mantras are being said by iyar and it's meaning, this is what I am saying they should explain to common hindus like me and you, I am sure you do not understand what Mantras are being chanted and the meaningsPlease STOP assuming.

If you don't know something, FIND OUT. Don't blame others.


This is why little knowledge is extremley dangerous :wave:I have never claimed to be a mister know it all, and I don't go around advising all and sundry on all matters from spirituality to health related issues.


You follow ISKON right? It looks like you have not read any books by ISKON founder Sripala Bhativedananta prapudha . If you have you wouldn't have asked such questionsAgain, you are making assumptions about me.
I do not follow ISKCON or any other groups.
And I am not asking any questions here.

[NOV]

MEAT-EATING... is Not Forbidden...... in HinduismBut of course ayyaa. Most Hindus, except the holier-than-thou know that.

He who knows not and knows not he knows not: he is a fool - shun him.

He who knows not and knows he knows not: he is simple - teach him.

He who knows and knows not he knows: he is asleep - wake him.

He who knows and knows he knows: he is wise - follow him.

[PARAMASHIVAN]

All I was trying say here was, in temples they should conduct courses to educate devotees of our Religion! Read verses of Geetha, Siva Puranam, and Vedic scripter and explain the meaning to common Hindus like us.

I have been to many churches and during every Sunday prayers and communion, they read chapters , verses of the bible and explain to devotees the essence of such practice, which does not happen in our temple, it is bad time, some things is done about this if not, the future generation would not have clue at all about Hinduism!

Unfortunately what I was trying to portray here was blown out of proportion !

[PARAMASHIVAN]

I have never claimed to be a mister know it all, and I don't go around advising all and sundry on all matters from spirituality to health related issues.


Nov

For no reasons you have always shown some personal grudge against me, I have seen that many times from your posts, some were even personal abuse with no respect at all, I have only tried to help others and shared what ever I knew, every one seems to have appreciated that except you.

I have never ever claimed I know everything, if you think like that, sorry I can't do anything, cos that thought is happening within you, only you can change that!

As from now on, I will refrain my self from replying to your posts

take care :wave:

[NOV]

Raghu, in the beginning I too was civil to you.
Raghu, the main tenet of Hinduism is you change yourself, not attempt to change others.
Thus, if you spend time seeking knowledge, you wouldn't have posted the above.

You see, you are comparing Hindusim with monotheistic religions and therein lies the problem. One size does not fit all; what happens in the other religions need not apply for Hinduism.
One major difference is that Hinduism does not condemn the unbeliever to hell. Thus its pointless to make comparisons when the idealogy is so vastly different.

I keep on telling you to research because by doing so you will be amazed with the highly intellectual thinking of our ancestors.

If you allow me to use an analogy, Hinduism is like an education system. Practices vary from basic kindegarden level to highly sophisticated research level. Its all there for your taking.

That is why we have rituals like animal sacrifice, fire walking, kavadi bearing to pure ascetism. There is NO wrong approach in spirituality. Just different ways. Only the shallow minded will condemn another for thier practice.

In your enthusiasm towards saivism, I have seen you ridicule vaishnavism. Please stop it. Just as your parents are the greatest people, likewise is someone else's parents. There is no such thing as my god is greater than your god. What we see is actually the different sides of the same god.

I admit that I have lost my patience many times with you. I apologise for that, but let me assure you I bear no grudge against you. Open your mind my friend, and you will be amazed at how little we all know compared to what is available out there.

[Sudhaama]

[tscii]
.


Fundamental Principle of Hinduism is ---


--- “Loko Vibhinna Ruchi”


(Global Mankind is of Varied Tastes)


---which indirectly implies the VARIED INDIVIDUAL FAITHs and Self-Principles too.!


--Different from Person to Person, even within ONE and the SAME FAMILY.!



Thus it indirectly means and demands--



-- UNITY IN DIVERSITY amongst the Global Mankind.!!!.



Dear NOV,

You APOLOGISE.?... … To “Paramashivan”.?

Sorry, I am unable to relish your such a gesture,

… especially, You being a Moderator, representing an International Organization.

I would have appreciated, if you could have just stopped with a “Sorry” …

…because, imagining myself in your shoes, I don’t find anything so SERIOUSLY deserving on your part…

--- to justify any APOLOGY in this case of a well-known POPULAR TWO-FACED Hubber of several years..

…although of GOOD INTENTIONS and Healthy purpose…

…but who is in the habit of PERSONALISING the discussions, wherever he participates and whoever he deals with on a COMMON SUBJECT.

I wish my dear “Paramashivan” has to introspect IN HIS OWN INTERESTS of Happy spending the time here, at least in future.

There are some people especially amongst Hindus, who have NOT UNDERSTOOD THEMSELVES primarily, prior to trying to understand the stand of others.

First of all, all must know, the so called Hinduism is neither an ISM… Nor ONE RELIGION…

---parallel to the Other World Religions like Christianity, Islam, Buddhism etc.


Rather the Vedic Religion is a COMPREHENSIVE FORM of all the popular World Religions.


So, every principle of other religions are the part of Vedic Religion too.


Because this Vedic Order is a HUMAN CODE OF PRACTICE towards God-realization.


The name Hinduism was labeled by Foreigners, as coined by Persians.

And the most interesting Fun is vivi-sectioning within such One Religion--

… as two CONTRARY Faiths as Saiv-ISM and Vaishnav-ISM.!!!

.Where is the ISM in them.?
.

.

[thamiz]

[tscii:03a8fd6f7c]

.
Dear NOV,

You APOLOGISE.?... … To “Paramashivan”.?

Sorry, I am unable to relish your such a gesture,

… especially, You being a Moderator, representing an International Organization.

I would have appreciated, if you could have just stopped with a “Sorry” …

.

I could not appreciate whatever you are trying to say. It is between a hubber and moderator and they know each other for YEARS before you showed up to forumhub.

Is this necessary for you ?

And what is the BIG difference between "apologize" and "sorry"?

I cant believe you give a big lecture on this! :evil: [/tscii:03a8fd6f7c]

[Sudhaama]

.
.


[tscii:c76d5fd9ab]


.
Dear NOV,

You APOLOGISE.?... … To “Paramashivan”.?

Sorry, I am unable to relish your such a gesture,

… especially, You being a Moderator, representing an International Organization.

I would have appreciated, if you could have just stopped with a “Sorry” …

.

I could not appreciate whatever you are trying to say. It is between a hubber and moderator and they know each other for YEARS before you showed up to forumhub.

Is this necessary for you ?

And what is the BIG difference between "apologize" and "sorry"?

I cant believe you give a big lecture on this! :evil: [/tscii:c76d5fd9ab]



My Dear "thamiz"

It is not just a matter between one Hubber and Moderator.

You do not know how much intimate I am to "Paramashivan" and how far I am his Well-wisher, EVEN NOW, since several years, he only knows.

We used to frequently correspond by PM and Email too, more than with any other Hubber.

Sorry to note you have not thought over MY INTENTION and the multi- purposes of my last posting addressed to the Moderator, from the angle of all the viewers.

We the outsiders are getting vexed to note such wordy duels... coupled with PERSONAL ATTACK AND COUNTER-ATTACK under a Classical Topic.

We the outsiders are disappointed repeatedly to see something different and unpalatable message for any viewer.

And we all the Commoner Hubbers cannot continue to be the MUTE SPECTATORS.

You may not know what other Hubbers are communicating their feeling of disappointments through PM and Email to me.

So I had to speak out, ON BEHALF OF ALL THE HUBBERS...

...which others may feel delicate to point out here openly.

Yes. My message of request and information from the Hubbers angle intended to be considered by both of them...

...as also openly for others information too.

Let us stop this personal difference of opinion at this point.

Thank You, with Best Wishes.
Sudhaama
.
.

[PARAMASHIVAN]

I could not appreciate whatever you are trying to say. It is between a hubber and moderator and they know each other for YEARS before you showed up to forumhub.



Thamizh :)

Yes, I have known Nov for almost 10 years now, from TFM page times, I think he misunderstood, some of my posts, never mind, no hard feelings from my side. I was initially very angry, I am ok now :)
I am a very short tempered person :oops:

[PARAMASHIVAN]

[tscii:01c9fc1798]
[--- to justify any APOLOGY in this case of a well-known POPULAR TWO-FACED Hubber of several years..

…although of GOOD INTENTIONS and Healthy purpose…

…but who is in the habit of PERSONALISING the discussions, wherever he participates and whoever he deals with on a COMMON SUBJECT.



Sudhama sir

I am not like that at all, some time opinions and views differ, and I may not agree with you and others, it does not mean I have a multiple personality :|



First of all, all must know, the so called Hinduism is neither an ISM… Nor ONE RELIGION…


I know this very well, hence I started the thread called Hinduism is it culture or a religion thread



[/tscii:01c9fc1798]

[Sudhaama]

[tscii:f142cc292b]
.


Life is a Multi-flowery GARDEN.!!!


So is Hinduism, the VEDIC CULTURE.!



RELIGIOUS CULTURE of HUMAN-VALUES---


---applicable to the entire GLOBAL MANKIND---


--- fundamentally propagating UNITY IN DIVERSITY.!!!






--- some time opinions and views differ, and I may not agree with you and others, :|



Yes. Yes. Welcome to differ--- That is the Life of Liveliness.


Healthy differences only evolve-- the BEST OUTCOME.


I am one amongst several OPEN-MINDED GENTLEMEN who feel happy to invite such intellectuals who differ with others by way of varied opinions

But, You or I should not get irritated or upset when somebody differs with us.

For example I know you well that you are a staunch Saivite, who believes that Lord Siva is Supreme Omnipotent God over all other Gods of Hinduism, including the so called Parandhaama Narayana or Kesava Vishnu.

Glad. You can continue so. Hinduism allows you too to be a Hindu within its fold-

Whereas I strongly differ with you by way of MY PERSONAL FAITH--- true to the Vedic sense of Totality.

--- being a Staunch Vaishnavite, whose faith is that Lord Vishnu Narayana is Supreme as established by all the Acharyas, including the Great Sankaracharya, thr Incarnation of Lord Siva,

But I should not get irritated with you nor feel alien to you--- only on the grounds of PERSONAL FAITHS BELIEFS and Principles of Likes and Dislikes.

If I feel or consider others so--- then I am unfit to be a Hindu---

--- and also Really Unworthy Human-being too.

If I am really a Hindu, I must not hate or alienate others of any Religion including an Atheist---

---just because of their personal Faith is far different or opposite to mine..


Other Religions do not accept the Non-believers of God as the members of their Religion. .

Whereas Hinduism is the ONLY RELIGION which receives an Atheist too--- within its Embrace

---so long such Atheists neither antagonize God nor His actions nor His Dharma nor the Humanity and other Creations.

Such people who get easily EMOTIONAL, get perturbed and pounce back on the Counter opined---

--- persuasively and forcibly thrust their Onslaught Words of Faith within the others Throats---

---mar the FORUM ATMOSPHERE of a Congregation of Multi-Brains and Minds of a HUMAN GARDEN...

-- serving the Bright Sense and Purpose of a Forum.

How far You fit in here, ---

---You can personally judge yourselves. I leave at that.

No more PERSONAL EVALUATIONS here please.

My Dear Mr. Paramashiva, I wish You are Greater than me.!--- True to the spirit of Hinduism.!





First of all, all must know, the so called Hinduism is neither an ISM… Nor ONE RELIGION


I know this very well, hence I started the thread called Hinduism is it culture or a religion thread




So called Hinduism is a RELIGIOUS CULTURE of HUMAN-VALUES---


---applicable to the entire GLOBAL MANKIND---


--as a Rich and FERTILE Garden ---


--- fundamentally propagating UNITY IN DIVERSITY.!!!
.
.
.[/tscii:f142cc292b]

[PARAMASHIVAN]

Few questions of Rituals, some one pls explain the reasons for this?

1) What is the reason for abhisekham
why dieties are given abhisekham with milk, honey, turmeric ...etc etc

2) What is purpose of wearing a naamam ?

3) what is the reason for for going around the temple in 'anti clockwise' circle, why not clockwise ?

4) why thaali is knotted three times?

5) what is reason for having a 'Pillaiyar' thaali and an 'Amman' thaali ?

6) why men are requested not wear any upper clothing while entering the temple ?

7) why should the temple main door 'must' face east ?

[anbu_kathir]

Few questions of Rituals, some one pls explain the reasons for this?

1) What is the reason for abhisekham
why dieties are given abhisekham with milk, honey, turmeric ...etc etc

2) What is purpose of wearing a naamam ?

3) what is the reason for for going around the temple in 'anti clockwise' circle, why not clockwise ?

4) why thaali is knotted three times?

5) what is reason for having a 'Pillaiyar' thaali and an 'Amman' thaali ?

6) why men are requested not wear any upper clothing while entering the temple ?

7) why should the temple main door 'must' face east ?

Paramashivan,

I strongly doubt that there are 100% rational and logical answers to these questions. One will reach some point in answering the chain of questions that are generated by each of these here, at which one has to really on one's personal belief system. For example, the purpose of wearing vermillion on the forehead is said to be for the activation of the Ajna Chakra, the 6th in the Kundalini which lies on the spine right behind the meeting point of the brows. Now having said that, the process of rational reasoning cannot really stop here, because now more religious terms have cropped up, which are not possible to be understood in a rational sense.

Ultimately, thus, the process will stop at a point where the terms in question will be a part of the belief system of the person, which is never really questioned.

That being the case, I don't mean to say such questions should not be asked :D. I can only say that personally such quests of mine have never resulted in anything really 'useful', nor has it really solved my fundamental problems. They have merely served me as different layers of reinforcement of my own belief systems, and ultimately thus, have been rendered either as 'art' (i.e., out of the realm of scientific logic, but still radiating inner Light) or plainly useless.

Love and Light.

[NOV]

While agreeing with anbu, let me attempt to give them factual answers (of course within my limitation of understanding.)



1) What is the reason for abhisekham
why dieties are given abhisekham with milk, honey, turmeric ...etc etc A continuation of the highest honor given to Kings.


2) What is purpose of wearing a naamam ?Similar to thiruneer pattai in spiritual sense. thiruneer is made from ash, while thiruman from sand. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust is the meaning.
Naamam is also the sign of both feet of the Lord, an extension of the Ramayana story where Bharathan ruled using the footwear of Sri Rama.


3) what is the reason for for going around the temple in 'anti clockwise' circle, why not clockwise ?firstly, you indeed go clockwise, both in going around the temple and also in doing the aaraathy. :P
I am not very sure about this, but have read somewhere that all planets, including the earth, travel in clockwise direction.


4) why thaali is knotted three times?Interpretations are far and wide, from G-O-D* to respect for husband, parents and God.


6) why men are requested not wear any upper clothing while entering the temple ?To attract positive force.
When huge numbers of people gather with a singular fucus, there is a lot of positive energy. A bare body is able to absorb this. Women cannot be bare bodied and so they are encouraged to wear a lot of jewelry that is said to attract the energy.


7) why should the temple main door 'must' face east ?Same reason as your altar at home.
So that the rising sun rays fall on it first.
Several religions practice this.

Raghu, as Anbu mentioned clearly, all these are open for different interpretations.
Spirituality lies beyond these.

[NOV]

G-O-D = Generation, Operation, Destruction = Brahma-Vishnu-Siva :P

[PARAMASHIVAN]

G-O-D = Generation, Operation, Destruction = Brahma-Vishnu-Siva :P

ahaa :rotfl:

[PARAMASHIVAN]

thanks nov :thumbsup:

here are few rituals, and it's meanings from what I have known.

1) Viboothi, thiruneeru is worn to make you aware, you will turn (your perishable body) into ash one day

2) Breaking coconut , if the coconut breaks in half, your mind and souls is said to be pure

3) The reason for Athi moolam to be in darkness is that when a lamp is lit, it would bring brightness. Moral of this ritual is that you come from darkness into enlightenment.


Pardon my thamizh (not sure if these are the right words) the means of ThOpukaranam (what u do in front of Lord Ganesha) , Purathatai are all forms of Physical exercises (yoga)

[PARAMASHIVAN]

For example, the purpose of wearing vermillion on the forehead is said to be for the activation of the Ajna Chakra, the 6th in the Kundalini which lies on the spine right behind the meeting point of the brows.


welcome kathir :)

what is vermillion ?

[anbu_kathir]

For example, the purpose of wearing vermillion on the forehead is said to be for the activation of the Ajna Chakra, the 6th in the Kundalini which lies on the spine right behind the meeting point of the brows.


welcome kathir :)

what is vermillion ?

[/quote]

I used it to mean anything applied by hindus in forehead. It is some kind of pigment it seems.

[anbu_kathir]

I am not very sure about this, but have read somewhere that all planets, including the earth, travel in clockwise direction.


EngEyO idikkidhu NOV. Especially when top-down left-right doesn't make sense in an absolute manner in space. Even the handles of the clock rotate anticlockwise if seen from the other side.

[PARAMASHIVAN]

yes what is clockwise to you will look anti clockwise to a person opposite to you .

I have even heard and seen from documentaries that all the planets held by Sun's magnetism do indeed travel around the sun in a clock wise manner, and they rotate them self in a clock wise manner as well

[Sudhaama]

[tscii:2d467ee7a7]







For example, the purpose of wearing vermillion on the forehead is said to be for the activation of the Ajna Chakra, the 6th in the Kundalini which lies on the spine right behind the meeting point of the brows.


what is vermillion ?




I used it to mean anything applied by hindus in forehead. It is some kind of pigment it seems.



The Vedic Religion, so called Hinduism indicates LAKSHMI-DEVI as the Goddess of Wealth and Prosperity.

Vedas and Vedic sasthras further stipulate on Life, linking Lakshmi with the various Articles of usage of Mankind towards their Well-being and Prosperity.

In such a sense it is specified---

Lakshmi-devi dwels along with Mankind in FIVE HIDDEN FORMS.

In Liquid form, She lives in COW’S MILK.

(Hence suitable for ABHISHEKAM to any Deity.
And a MUST for the First Night Couple))

In Root form She lives in VERMILLION ( Manjalh Kizhangu / மஞ்சள் கிழங்கு)

So considered a Worthy Substitute to Golden-Thaali worn by Wives

Hindus wear on their Forehead, as a HOLY DECORATION OF SANCTITY---

---in the form of Kunkumam or Manjalh-Pottu or Sree-Choornam by Vaishnavites--- (Vermillion made products,)

One of the Reasons apart from its Hygenic sense and as Bodily Skin-preservative---

--Ladies apply Vermillion paste on their body, during bath, to gain the Goddess Lakshmi power for the Family.

Because the Ladies are called as the GRIHA-LAKSHMI, an Embodiment of Prosperity as HOME-MAKER for the respective Family.

And Manjal is a MANGALA ARTICLE for every Subha celebrations.

In COLOUR-FORM--- She dwels in YELLOW COLOUR.

In Metal form, She lives in GOLD. ( So Wedding- Thaali’s are made of Gold only)

In VEGETATION form, She lives in VILWA-LEAF.

So the Lord Siva prefers at most to have VILWA ARCHANA---

---To gain power of GRACE FOR PROSPERITY for His Devotees..

.
[/tscii:2d467ee7a7]

[Sudhaama]

[tscii:db75776032]

.

Earthly-Paradise--- in OUR HANDS.!...


---just by living as the TRUE MANKIND---


---by Sense and Scope.!!


---implementing on the Field--- HUMAN-VALUES.!!!






புவி-சொர்க்க நதியின் இரு கரையர்





மானிடப்-பங்கு உள்ளுவது-எல்லாம் உயர்வே நந்தனாரை நடராஜர் காட்டினார்
தேனினும் இனி-பண்பர் பாணரை தூக்கிக் காட்டினன் அரங்கன் இறைவன்-பங்கு
வானினும் மேல் வையத்து உனை உயர்த்துவான் இறைவன் நீ நம்பும் யாரோ.!
கானிது கனி-வாய்ப்பை சொர்க்கம் ஆக்குவது உன்-கையில் தானே மனிதா அறி.!




நந்தன் சரித்திரம் இங்கெதற்கு?
நம்மிடை அதற்கொரு பங்கெதற்கு?
நந்தன் கதையோ புதிதெனக்கு
நலம்புகல் வீரதன் மதிகணக்கு.



.
மதி-கணக்கோ வாழ்வு மாந்தர் தமக்குத் தாமே விதி-செய் மதி கொட்டம்.?
விதி-கணக்கோ வாழ்க்கை மாந்தர்-மேலான் நம் மீது திணித்து ஆள்- திட்டம்.?
கதி கணக்கோ புரியாத தலையெழுத்து தலைமேல் கைவைத்து ஏங்க கஷ்டம்?
நிதி-கணக்கோ வாழ்-வள செல்வங்களின் வரவு செலவு விவர லாப-நஷ்டம்.?
நதி கணக்கோ புவி-சொர்க்க வழி? வெள்ளியில் காண்க நம் சுய-நெறி சட்டம்
மதியோர் என்-கோரிக்கையை, பிறரதும் அறிய ஆவலே.! அன்பர்காள் இஷ்டம்!
.

[யாப்பு-இலக்கண வரம்பிற்கு உட்பட்டது அல்ல}


இட்டம்-போல் அவரவர், திரிந்தால் வரை-முறையற்றவர் பெயர் மனிதனோ.?
திட்டம் வாழ்க்கை-நெறி மேல்-ஆதிக்கம் ஆளும் இறைவனது ஆக்க நோக்கம்
வட்டம் நம் செயல்-வரம்பு எனப் புரிந்து அதனுள் தம் வாழ்வு-நெறித் திட்டம்
கொட்டம் அடிக்காது நல்வாய்ப்பே புவி-சொர்க்கம் விஞ்ஞான-ஞானக் கணக்கே

கணக்கே விஞ்ஞானக் குடும்ப- நெறி கூட்டல், கழித்தல், பெருக்கல், வகுத்தல்,
பிணக்கு-அற இம்மை சுவர்க்கம் வாழ-வேண்டின், ஆயன் கைவசப்பட்ட பசுவாய்
இணக்கம்-உற உனைக்-காக்கும் ஆயன் கைத்-தாம்பு எல்லை உன் வாழ்-வட்டம்
மணக்க மா-சொர்க்கம் வாழலாம், தன் குட்டியொடு உலகுக்கே தாயாய் பண்பு நீ

தாயாய் பண்பு கொள தந்தை ஆடவனுக்குத் தெரியாது, மாதே மாந்தனின் குரு
பேயாய் திரி-மாந்தரைத் திருத்திப் புவி-மனித உருதரும் தாயே முதல் தெய்வம்
தாயாய் பிறந்து வாழ் சிவ-மங்கைக்கும் தெரியாதோ நந்தன் சிவ-பக்த நாயனார்.?
தாயாயும் வாழ்ந்து காட்டிய தாயுமானவன் சிவ-பெருமான் அடியார் சிவமாலா

சிவ-மாலாய் இரு-முக வேத-நெறி ஆக்கிக்-காத்தலும், அழிவும் துவக்க இறுதி
சிவமாலாய் இறைவன் ஒருவனே இரு வகை அடியரை ஒருங்கே காக்கப் புவி
சிவமாலாய் பற-பறக்க ஊண் நாடி பறவைக்கூடு மண் விடுதலை வான் பறக்க
சிவ-மாலா மாந்தர் தந்தை இறைவனைப்-பயன் கொள்ள விருப்பம் இரு-வகை

சிவ + மால் + ஆய் = சிவ-பெருமானாகவும் திருமாலாகவும் உலகோரை மேய்த்து ஆளும் ஆயன் ஒருவனே

சிவ + மாலாய் = சிவ-பெருமான், திருமால் என்னும் இரு வேறு தெய்வங்களாகவும் உரு மாறு கொண்டு வெவ்வேறு வகையான புவி-அடியரை ஒருங்கே காக்க

சிவம் + ஆலாய்: சிவம்= மங்கள சொர்க்க-வாழ்வு; ஆல் = ஆல் பருவப்பறவை

[மானிடப் பிள்ளைப் பருவத்தை, ஆணுக்கு எட்டாகவும், பெண்ணுக்கு பதினொன்றாகவும் பிள்ளைத்-தமிழ் இலக்கியம் வகுத்துள்ளது போல, பறவை இனத்தின் பிள்ளைப்-பருவம் மூவகையானது--- குளுவான், ஆல், குஞ்சு என்பனவாம்.

இடைப்-பருவமான “ஆல்” என்னும் பறவைப்-பருவத்தில் தான் சிறிதே சிறகு முளைத்திருக்கும். ஆனால் கூடு-விட்டு வெளியே பறக்க இயலாது. அந்நிலையில் குரல் ஓங்கி கூச்சல் இடவல்லது “ஆல்”.

தாய்ப்பறவை உணவு ஊட்டுகையில் ஆல்-பறவைகள் ஒவ்வொன்றும் ஒன்றோடு-ஒன்று போட்டி போட்டு, நான் முந்தி முந்தி என்று காட்டி பெரும் கூச்சலிட்டு, கூட்டுக்கு-உள்ளேயே பறபறக்கக் குதித்து குதித்து, தன்னை மட்டும் நோக்கவே தாய்ப்-பறவையை அவசரப்படுத்தும்

சிவ + மாலா= சிவ-பெருமான் அணி-மாலையாய் மணம்-கமழும் பக்தை சிவமாலாரே

.

..[/tscii:db75776032]

[PARAMASHIVAN]

All this time I only knew that the significance of Viboothi /Thiruneeru was just a remainder that one day you will be turned Into Ashes! I have now heard from a Yoga expert, that Viboothi sends positives energy vibrations through third eye.

And that buy wearing a santhanam on your head, where the third eye is, you can keep your body Temperature down!

[anbu_kathir]

All this time I only knew that the significance of Viboothi /Thiruneeru was just a remainder that one day you will be turned Into Ashes! I have now heard from a Yoga expert, that Viboothi sends positives energy vibrations through third eye.

And that buy wearing a santhanam on your head, where the third eye is, you can keep your body Temperature down!

As good as saying earth is moved by angels, isn't it, even though it might really be true.

[PARAMASHIVAN]

kathir

Are you saying in sarcastic way :), the above scenario has been scientifically proven !

[anbu_kathir]

kathir

Are you saying in sarcastic way :), the above scenario has been scientifically proven !

Illa Paramashivan, not in a sarcastic way, serious-a dhaan kEttEn :D.

Scientifically proven means a careful double-blind ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_experiment ) experiment should have been constructed for this phenomenon and the results proved the claim.

Thappa ninaikaadeenga, I too have some belief in such things, but they aren't anything close to good science AFAIK.

Love and Light.

[PARAMASHIVAN]

Kathir

Naa onnum Thappa ninaikaliyE :)

BTW, every Sunday I visit my Local temple, there is a Yoga Expert, I speak to him about various things on yoga, and I was told about the above scenario.

Few other things, apparently if you are scared of something, by applying your saliva on your third eye it makes it go away. He also mentions that out 'thoughts' are kind of like waves, like radio wave, sort of thing
:roll:

[anbu_kathir]

Kathir
Few other things, apparently if you are scared of something, by applying your saliva on your third eye it makes it go away. He also mentions that out 'thoughts' are kind of like waves, like radio wave, sort of thing
:roll:

To a scientist these things don't make much sense, thats the problem. Analogies might be drawn of course, but one must be very careful so that the analogy is not mistaken for scientific truth, for then the burden of evidence has to be shouldered and there is AFAIK no evidence (except of course direct subjective experience which is useless to science).

[NOV]

frankly I dont understand why faith needs science to back it up.
faith is faith - meaning belief. belief is something that cannot be proven.
science never attempts to use faith to back them up, so why must faith look for science to back it up?
Is that a sign of not having faith?

[PARAMASHIVAN]

Kathir

Hinduism is based and derived from Science of the cosmos, where else a 'Faith' is just a belief, it is not Reality, hence we a contradiction/conflict between Reality (Logics) and Faith (Belief)

[anbu_kathir]

frankly I dont understand why faith needs science to back it up.
faith is faith - meaning belief. belief is something that cannot be proven.
science never attempts to use faith to back them up, so why must faith look for science to back it up?
Is that a sign of not having faith?

NOV,
Speaking only for the Hindu faith, AFAIK it is nowhere mentioned in scripture that man should give up his intellectual abilities and completely believe in matters given in the scriptures that are related with activities in the world. In fact, AFAIK it is stressed that the intellect must be used as much as possible in any issue that can change with the circumstances. For example, it would be completely unacceptable today to follow all the laws of the controversial Manu Smriti to the dot, or accept that the Universe is infact made up of just the five elements - earth, water etc.

But as far as the non-worldly (and by non-worldly I mean things which Science can neither prove nor disprove), the scriptures asks the adherent to go by its word. As you said, such things cannot be reasoned by science, and it is upto the individual to leave it at that or take the word of scripture by which it claims it will result in his/her liberation.

Also, the Hindu canon also has several gradations of scriptures, with the highest being the Veda which is completely cryptic and therefore extremely subtle to analyse. As we go down the ladder, this situation is reversed, the statements get more specific (to the circumstances in which they were authored) and less viable for manipulation. Hinduism allows these lower-rung scriptures to be bent or broken depending on the circumstances of the present day.

One of the more recent psychologists, Scott Peck, has presented an understanding of "faith" in several stages.

http://www.factnet.org/Stages_Of_Spiritual_Growth.html

Very interestingly, he puts the rationalism based outlook as the penultimate stage in faith by itself. IMHO this is indeed the spirit of the Hindu canon. Of course, Hinduism considers the composers or writers of the important scriptures (sans Veda) to generally be from the final stage of faith, but AFAIK none of them ignore or ask for the giving up of the rationalistic pov.

Love and Light.

[anbu_kathir]

Kathir

Hinduism is based and derived from Science of the cosmos, where else a 'Faith' is just a belief, it is not Reality, hence we a contradiction/conflict between Reality (Logics) and Faith (Belief)

Our scriptures says that Consciousness is the basis of everything. This is an Axiom (unprovable statement), I think. It is not provable by a scientific experiment, and therefore it is not based on science (whose prime principle is objective evidence). Therefore, Hinduism is not science.

QED.
:D.

[SoftSword]

To a scientist these things don't make much sense, thats the problem. Analogies might be drawn of course, but one must be very careful so that the analogy is not mistaken for scientific truth, for then the burden of evidence has to be shouldered and there is AFAIK no evidence (except of course direct subjective experience which is useless to science).

einsteen'um APJ'vum theevira kadavul bakthargal'nu padichaenae!

[PARAMASHIVAN]

Softie

Neenga ingaiyum varuveengala :shock: :shock: :shock:

[SoftSword]

edhachum thappaana edatthukku vandhuttena?

[PARAMASHIVAN]

SS

appadi onum illa, ithula ellam ungaluku interest irukum nu naa ninaikala, any way

//end Digresion :)

[anbu_kathir]

einsteen'um APJ'vum theevira kadavul bakthargal'nu padichaenae!

SS,

Apdi paatheengannaa, too many scientists are atheists these days. Adhunaala enna? Scientists can have beliefs, and in this particular belief in a supernatural deity, they are not backed up by logical reasoning or objective evidence, avalavudhaan.

[PARAMASHIVAN]

Our scriptures says that Consciousness is the basis of everything. This is an Axiom (unprovable statement), I think. It is not provable by a scientific experiment, and therefore it is not based on science (whose prime principle is objective evidence). Therefore, Hinduism is not science.

QED.
:D.

Kathir
It depends on what people perception of the meaning of "Science" ? Is Science 'Limited' to Material/Object orientation? Isn't self realisation/ Inner Engineering (Understanding the Origin of who I am) a Scientific Concept? :)

[anbu_kathir]

Kathir
It depends on what people perception of the meaning of "Science" ? Is Science 'Limited' to Material/Object orientation? Isn't self realisation/ Inner Engineering (Understanding the Origin of who I am) a Scientific Concept? :)
Paramashivan,

To quote from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method...

Scientific method refers to a body of techniques for investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, or correcting and integrating previous knowledge. To be termed scientific, a method of inquiry must be based on gathering observable, empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning

Irrespective of what one is investigating, "gathering observable, empirical and measurable evidence" is the crux of a scientific process. How then does the metaphysics of any religion fall into Science? Maybe one can say that the ancients had a "scientific spirit", but they didn't do "science" for sure. Further more, with a demand for objectivity, and of course Occam's Razor, we have to throw all philosophy out of the window (of Science I mean :D). Of course, this doesn't mean that all those are not "useful" (in some measure of utility) to a human life.

Love and Light.

[PARAMASHIVAN]

1) Why do we light a lamp?

Light symbolizes knowledge, and darkness - ignorance. Hence by lighting a Lamp, you remove the Ignorance around you!

2) Why do we do Namaste?

The life force, the divinity, the Self or the Lord in me is the same in all. Recognizing this oneness with the meeting of the palms, we salute with head bowed the Divinity in the person we meet

3)Why do we wear marks (tilak) on the forehead?

The tilak cover the spot between the eyebrows, which is the seat of memory and thinking. It is known as the Aajna Chakra in the language of Yoga! This is also known as the Third Eye of "Enlightenment". This is also known as the "third eye" of 'Mahesha (or Siva)'. The tilak and pottu cools the forehead, protects us and prevents energy loss.

4) Why do we apply the holy ash?

This is known as Viboothi. This is applied on your forhead to remind you that, the "Perishable" body you are in woulkd be turn into ash or dust. When applied with a red dot (kunkumam) at the center, the mark symbolizes Shiva-Shakti (the unity of energy and matter that creates the entire seen and unseen universe). We worship the three-eyed Lord Shiva who nourishes and spread fragrance in our lives. May He free us from the shackles of sorrow, change and death – effortlessly,