Celebrating Women

[NOV]

Women!

What can men do with them? :roll:

What can men do without them? :lol:

Don't bother trying to understand them; they need to be loved.
They want to be loved - and exclusively them alone. :P

Use this thread to celebrate this special species - friends, wives, mothers, daughters, leaders, the downtrodden, the candle, the perfume.... you get the idea.....

[NOV]

from a forwarded mail.....

One Flaw In Women

Women have strengths that amaze men.

They bear hardships and they carry burdens, but they hold happiness, love and joy.

They smile when they want to scream.

They sing when they want to cry.

They cry when they are happy and laugh when they are nervous.

They fight for what they believe in.

They stand up to injustice.

They don't take "no" for an answer when they believe there is a better solution.

They go without, so their family can have.

They go to the doctor with a frightened friend.

They love unconditionally.

They cry when their children excel and cheer when their friends get awards.

They are happy when they hear about a birth or a wedding.

Their hearts break when a friend dies.

They grieve at the loss of a family member, yet they are strong when they think there is no strength left.

They know that a hug and a kiss can heal a broken heart.

Women come in all shapes, sizes and colors.

They'll drive, fly, walk, run or e-mail you to show how much they care about you.

The heart of a woman is what makes the world keep turning.

They bring joy, hope and love.

They have compassion and ideas.

They give moral support to their family and friends.

Women have vital things to say and everything to give.

HOWEVER, IF THERE IS ONE FLAW IN WOMEN, IT IS THAT THEY FORGET THEIR WORTH

[pavalamani pragasam]

A mixture of angel & demon, fire & ice, love & hate.

Has the potential of an atom bomb, has the power to blow the world to dust! The same ironically mothers life.

Fragile as glass, handle with care.

Complement of man, each are incomplete without the other.

[P_R]

Do you believe that is possible to define woman ?

They are dumb,smart,weak,strong,emotional,stoic,peevish,mat ure and what not.

In the long and short of it, I do not think women are any different from men.

PS: ignore the signature heh heh :)

[pavalamani pragasam]

Actually women are very different from men - biologically, homonally, emotionally; their very logic of reasoning, reacting, manipulating & achieving are completely different: that is the secret of the permanent interest, attraction, curiosity they have for each other! Like poles repel, unlike poles attract is a very true law in man-woman relationship.

[malsi]

men and women are from two different boxes..how on earth can we compare them?..

[pavalamani pragasam]

Boxes or planets? From Mars & Venus?!

[P_R]

Actually women are very different from men - biologically, homonally, emotionally; their very logic of reasoning, reacting, manipulating & achieving are completely different: that is the secret of the permanent interest, attraction, curiosity they have for each other! Like poles repel, unlike poles attract is a very true law in man-woman relationship.

Well PP, perhaps I should defer to your experience but from the cross section of women I have met I have never found them significantly different from men.

For every manupilative one there is someone naive. For every brilliant one there is a dunce. For every emotionally immature one I have met , I have seen level headed and practical ones. So I really cannot classify any distinguishing characteristics. I am being too unromantic, perhaps I should read this thread as it develops :-)

The mysterious woman,IMO, is a myth that feeds into itself. If we just face it that women are as different from men as men are different from each other, things would be a lot simpler.

[Shakthiprabha.]

Ive always bought the view, MEN AND WOMEN ARE NOT VERY DIFFERENT. THEY ARE SIMILAR in too many ways except biologically ofcourse.

Until sometime back a friend of mine, quoted some words from famous "men are from............ blah blah " book.

Made me really think.

Are they any different?

[gaddeswarup]

I think that I will go along with Pavalamani Pragasam's statement:
"Actually women are very different from men - biologically, homonally, emotionally; their very logic of reasoning, reacting, manipulating & achieving are completely different: that is the secret of the permanent interest, attraction, curiosity they have for each other!"
I do not go along with any of the four statements in the poll. Perhaps with the recent research ( of course, very recent research reports have to be taken with a grain of salt) indicate that there are differences:
http://www.livescience.com/humanbiology/050120_brain_sex.html
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1686984,00.html
http://www.livescience.com/humanbiology/050706_pain_gender.html
http://www.world-science.net/othernews/060118_schadenfrm.htm
These give hints of some differences and hopefully future research will elucidate further. My own feeling is that we women would have made better administrators ( unless they become too much like men) and that men take themselves too seriously and that is where most of our problems lie.
Swarup

[NOV]

These give hints of some differences and hopefully future research will elucidate further. My own feeling is that we women would have made better administrators ( unless they become too much like men) and that men take themselves too seriously and that is where most of our problems lie.
Swarupgaddeswarup is a woman?!?!?! :shock: :shock: :shock:

[NOV]

Status of Women

Women have not achieved equality with men in any country.

Of the world's 1.3 billion poor people, it is estimated that nearly 70 per cent are women.

Between 75 and 80 per cent of the world's 27 million refugees are women and children.

Women's life expectancy, educational attainment and income are highest in Sweden, Canada, Norway, USA and Finland.

The Fourth World Conference on Women, held in Beijing, China from 4-15 September 1995, resulted in agreement by 189 delegations on a five-year plan to enhance the social, economic and political empowerment of women, improve their health, advance their education and promote their reproductive rights.

Over 100 countries have announced new initiatives to further the advancement of women as a result of the Beijing Women's Conference.

The 1979 UN Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women, often described as a Bill of Rights for Women, has now been ratified by 160 countries.


Political Participation

The first country to grant women the right to vote was New Zealand in 1893.

Only 28 women have been elected heads of state or government in this century.

Women hold 11.7 per cent of the seats in the world's parliaments.

In early 1995, Sweden formed the world's first cabinet to have equal numbers of men and women.

Of the 185 highest-ranking diplomats to the United Nations, seven are women.

The percentage of female cabinet ministers worldwide has risen from 3.4 in 1987 to 6.8 per cent in 1996.


Women and Education

Of the world's nearly one billion illiterate adults, two-thirds are women.

Two-thirds of the 130 million children worldwide who are not in school are girls.

During the past two decades the combined primary and secondary enrollment ratio for girls in developing countries increased from 38 per cent to 78 per cent.


Women and Labour

The majority of women earn on average about three-fourths of the pay of males for the same work, outside of the agricultural sector, in both developed and developing countries.

In most countries, women work approximately twice the unpaid time men do.

Women make up 31 per cent of the official labour force in developing countries and 46.7 per cent worldwide.

Rural women produce more than 55 per cent of all food grown in developing countries.

The value of women's unpaid housework and community work is estimated at between 10-35 per cent of GDP worldwide, amounting to $11 trillion in 1993.

Women hold 35.5 per cent of professional posts in the United Nations Secretariat including 18.5 per cent in senior management.

By the year 2000, there will be as many women employees as men in many industrialized nations.


Women and Population

Women outlive men in almost every country.

There are slightly fewer women than men in the world -- 98.6 women for every 100 men.

Out-of-marriage births have increased more than 50 per cent in the last 20 years in developed countries.

One in every four households in the world is now headed by a woman.

The life expectancy of women has gone up. In 1992, the average woman lived to be 62.9 years in developing countries compared to 53.7 years in 1970. In industrialized countries, women's average life expectancy in 1992 was 79.4 years, up from 74.2 in 1970.

By 2025, the proportion of women aged 60 or older will almost double in East and South-East Asia, Latin America and the Caribbean, and North Africa.


Women and Health

Women are becoming increasingly affected by HIV. Today about 42 per cent of estimated cases are women, and the number of infected women is expected to reach 15 million by the year 2000.

An estimated 20 million unsafe abortions are performed worldwide every year, resulting in the deaths of 70,000 women.

Approximately 585,000 women die every year, over 1,600 every day, from causes related to pregnancy and childbirth. In sub-Saharan Africa, 1 in 13 women will die from pregnancy or childbirth related causes, compared to 1 in 3,300 women in the United States.

Globally, 43 per cent of all women and 51 per cent of pregnant women suffer from iron-deficiency anemia.


Women and Violence

Each year an estimated two million girls suffer the practice of female genital mutilation.

Worldwide, 20 to 50 per cent of women experience some degree of domestic violence during marriage.

The primary victims of today's wars are civilian women and their children, not soldiers.

The use of rape as a weapon of war has become more evident. In Rwanda from April 1994 to April 1995, estimates of the number of women and girls raped range from 15,700 to over 250,000.

Rapes in the former Yugoslavia and Rwanda are being investigated with a view to prosecution by International Tribunals established by the United Nations.


http://www.un.org/ecosocdev/geninfo/women/women96.htm

[Sandeep]

Nov :shock: ,

And I though we where "celebrating women". :(

[pavalamani pragasam]

Men & and women are definitely different, that too rightfrom from their tender age, their approach, behaviour, way of thinking, playing, reasoning are all distinctly different. we have both sons & a daughter. Now only grandsons, when recently we spent some long time withmy sister's granddaughter, we came to this conclusions after our interactions with her.So I stated it with some autority!

Perhaps Nov's list of women's pathetic conditions worldwide will help to create an allroud awareness about the situation leading to a day for really celebrating women's status!

[Sandeep]

PP,

Couldn't these differences be owing to the difference in upbringing, like a baby boy is always gifted male centric toys and like wise for baby girl. Hence when they grow the boy asks for a top Guy and girl for a Barbie doll.

[pavalamani pragasam]

Sandeep, nowadays in 1 or 2 child norm parents don't show much partiality. As for selection of different toys for boys & girls I read somewhere that in an experiment conducted to break this myth about gender differences of tastes, preferences, I vaguely remember it being found out for the great astonishment boys & girls converting the given toys to the traditionally believed patternof playing. Boys take naturally to balls from very early stage; girls are less interested in balls. Now in Mumbai it is the beyblade craze season. It is the boys mostly involved in spinning those tops while girls look on with very slight interest! Definitely it is a chromosomal matter!

[Lambretta]

PP,

Couldn't these differences be owing to the difference in upbringing, like a baby boy is always gifted male centric toys and like wise for baby girl. Hence when they grow the boy asks for a top Guy and girl for a Barbie doll.
Sandeep, I don't get wat ur trying to say......so u or I hav a son, we shud try gifting him barbie dolls, "make-up" kits so they'd grown up to be more "soft" & sensitive, & if daughters they shud be given He-man (not sure if those exist still!) or sum action pack male superhero toys, so they'd grow up to be ruff n tuff?? :P :lol:

[gaddeswarup]

Sorry; it was a slip may be Freuduan. I am a 64 year old man.
swarup

[NOV]

Thank God for that. :lol:

[Shakthiprabha.]

FEB 8th woman's day!!! :roll:

[Shakthiprabha.]

or is it march 8th :oops:

[pavalamani pragasam]

March 8th is International Women's Day!

[NOV]

Jaya's Army of Women


Every day somewhere in southern India, impoverished women face unspeakable tragedy: they are encouraged to kill their own daughters and if they refuse, the decision is often taken out of their hands. After baring three girls and no sons, Padma Sivaprakasam was shunned by her community, her mother-in-law and even her own husband. In a society where girls are viewed as a strain on scarce resources, Padma's daughters were seen as a curse. No one wanted anything to do with Padma. They were afraid they would catch her "girl bearing disease".

With no relations to take her in and no money of her own, Padma was forced to live in an unbearable situation. One night while she was sleeping, her mother-in-law threw her youngest daughter down a well, killing her.

Every day, Dr. Jaya Arunachalam confronts heartbreaking stories of women like Padma and gives them the strength to rebuild their lives. As president of the Working Women's Forum (WWF), Jaya has a keen understanding of what it takes to help women like Padma.

In 1978, after terrible floods wreaked havoc in Chennai (Madras), Jaya was organizing relief efforts for impoverished slum dwellers when she had an epiphany. She quickly understood that people living in desperate conditions, only got assistance after a disaster hit the headlines. When the floods subside and things returned to "normal" the women told her, no one would turn up to help them. "This made me think seriously that more than the flood, poverty is the greater disaster," says Jaya.

So began Jaya's crusade to empower poor women. The WWF organizes women at the lowest rungs of Indian society; giving them trades and providing them with invaluable services. Padma received a micro-loan, began a small business selling vegetables, and became a member of WWF. She is separated from her husband and takes care of her two surviving daughters herself, even sending one to school.

Jaya and her colleagues at WWF empower women like Padma who is now able to draw from her own heartache when speaking to other women. Economically independent and armed with new organizational skills, she crusades against female infanticide and explains that she is the one who now takes care of her family, not her husband who was spoiled by his family. This has a big impact on poor women who have few resources or support in their own communities.

What makes WWF so effective is its approach to transforming society from the bottom up by mobilizing and uniting poor women who are given tools such as microfinance loans, to transform their lives. They, in turn, become leaders and advocates for change. WWF with over 700,000 members helps women escape abusive marriages when the authorities refuse to grant them divorce and facilitate intra-class marriages to undermine the Indian caste system. It has given out 370,000 microfinance loans worth more than 110 million Rupees. And of course, it campaigns against female infanticide.

In a tragic replay of the floods of 1978, Jaya was on the ground immediately after the Tsunami hit coastal communities in southern India in December. WWF gave loans and other assistance. For Jaya, it was deja vu when WWF members including more than 2,000 fisherwomen lost their livelihoods and in some cases their homes. Ramani Palani, who had to take care of six children alone after the death of her husband, was given a small loan to start her own fishing business. After the Tsunami, she was left with nothing but an empty hut. WWF provided her with rice, clothes, utensils and cash. "The President is like a God to me," says Palani. She is of course talking about Jaya.


source: http://www.un.org/works/beijing+10/india2.html

[Sanguine Sridhar]

FEB 8th woman's day!!! :roll:
:banghead:

[pavalamani pragasam]

Nov, very heartening piece of information! :clap: Let the tribe of Jaya grow! :D

[Shakthiprabha.]

Nov,

good website .

Every body can post any such known websites (which works for the cause of society...)

Organizations where they need voluteers ? etc

[P_R]

Sandeep, I don't get wat ur trying to say......so u or I hav a son, we shud try gifting him barbie dolls, "make-up" kits so they'd grown up to be more "soft" & sensitive, & if daughters they shud be given He-man (not sure if those exist still!) or sum action pack male superhero toys, so they'd grow up to be ruff n tuff?? :P :lol:
Reminded me of this:
When they are young girls are interested in dolls and boys are interested in soldiers. When they grow up it is the exact opposite.

[dev]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[selvakumar]

This is just for fun. I request female hubbers not to take this one seriously

IMHO, the difference between men and women lies in the WOO part.

Based on who is trying hard to WOO the other, the controlling part goes to the person being woed by the other. Then the WOO turns into WOE for the person who tried to WOO. :lol:

WOO,MEN -> WOMEN :roll:

WOE,MEN -> WOMEN :roll:

WOMEN - WOE -> MEN :roll:

MEN + WOMEN -> WOE OR WOO(MEN) :roll:
Confusing ?? indeed .. :?

[Sandeep]

Sandeep, I don't get wat ur trying to say......so u or I hav a son, we shud try gifting him barbie dolls, "make-up" kits so they'd grown up to be more "soft" & sensitive, & if daughters they shud be given He-man (not sure if those exist still!) or sum action pack male superhero toys, so they'd grow up to be ruff n tuff?? :P :lol:

I was just asking if upbrighging has an effect on the diffrence between men and women. PP explained that enough studies have been done to prove that myth wrong.

[Sandeep]

Sandeep, I don't get wat ur trying to say......so u or I hav a son, we shud try gifting him barbie dolls, "make-up" kits so they'd grown up to be more "soft" & sensitive, & if daughters they shud be given He-man (not sure if those exist still!) or sum action pack male superhero toys, so they'd grow up to be ruff n tuff?? :P :lol:

I was just asking if upbringing has an effect on the difference between men and women. PP explained that enough studies have been done to prove that myth wrong.

[Lambretta]

Ok...:)

[gaddeswarup]

[tscii:b4b520adb0]
From:
http://www.scidev.net/announcements/index.cfm?fuseaction=readannouncement&itemid=358&language=1
*

International Federation of University Women
Agency: International Federation of University Women (IFUW)

The International Federation of University Women (IFUW) is an international, non-profit organisation of women graduates working to promote lifelong education, to improve the status of women and girls and to enable women to effect positive change for a peaceful world.

Our 79 national affiliates and members in more than 120 countries take an interdisciplinary approach to global issues through international advocacy, networking, research, conferences, seminars, workshops and local community projects.
For further details on elligability, memberships and fellowships please visit:*http://www.ifuw.org/join/index.htm
[/tscii:b4b520adb0]

[pavalamani pragasam]

[tscii:6b6df36e47]How about being more practical & futuristic?

This is from today’s newspapers:

The urban successful woman is open to the idea of a house husband, now more than ever

Homely hubby

When the term “housewife” was dropped for the more politically correct expression “homemaker”, it was meant to urbanise the 24/7 unglamorous job of holding the home, hearth and wailing kids. What remained though was the gender connotation that defined the homemaker always as a ‘she’. Herein comes the gender bender concept of the house husbands, who are being sought increasingly by the successful women of the world.

Says Manisha Hirani, who runs a marriage bureau in Vashi, Mumbai, “I’ve been running a marriage bureau for more than 25 years and grooms were always supposed to be either doctors, engineers, NRIs, MBAs or even bankers, media personals etc. But of late, I’ve received enquiries from parents of well established women, looking for men who are okay with taking care of the house. They say that their daughters don’t want to lose out in their climb up the corporate ladder and since salary is not an object, they don’t mind a man who doesn’t earn and is home.”

The concept of house husbands may be new to India, but is quite common in other societies. As social anthropologist Dhruv Chhada observes, “Many tribes in Africa and Northeastern India have societies where the women are the breadwinners of the family. But in the urban context, this concept is catching on only now since women are also proving to be hugely successful in their own careers, add to the fact that by the time they decide to get married they have aged considerably and the best men may be already spoken for.”
[/tscii:6b6df36e47]

[Sandeep]

Call me whatever but

I feel ashamed for the "House Husband" (Physical or mental conditions not withstanding)

[pavalamani pragasam]

:wink: :lol: :clap: :thumbsup:

[P_R]

Call me whatever but I feel ashamed for the "House Husband" (Physical or mental conditions not withstanding)

Everyday when I drive home weary after a long day I feel quite jealous of retirees and housewives who , in my opinion, are the only ones who stop to smell the roses.

Many men actually take to cooking and home care with greater interest than, for
some reason, they care to admit. Imagine being able to spend quality time with people who matter. A disciplined person will be able to pursue his/her interests in art, reading, movies and..... forumhub :D

Equal rights ! Down with the social stigma.

Come on guys, let us burn some banians.

[pavalamani pragasam]

:rotfl:

kuppura vizunthaalum meesaiyil man ottaathu :lol:

[scorpio]

Call me whatever but

I feel ashamed for the "House Husband" (Physical or mental conditions not withstanding)

Do the other men folks also feel the same? I have heard my husband telling many a times that he'd be happy being a 'house husband' and lead a life for himself, say, in another 10 years while I can continue pursuing my corporate dreams and commit to feeding him for the rest of his life :-)

[pavalamani pragasam]

It is time old-fashioned menfolk woke up to newly dawning realities happening inside their ilk & around the whole world!!! And get adjusted !!!

Hurrah to celebrating women!!!

This growing trend, the acceptance of such a mentality coupled with unchecked, increasing female infanticide & foeticide( as indicated by the declining sex ratio) my story, "India smiles" in the story section will no more be a fig of my imagination!

[Anoushka]

Scorpio: A friend of mine here says the same, he keeps saying the day his wife tells him to sit at home (which she doesn't agree to at the moment ;) ) he would happily quit his job and take care of home!

My hubby dear actually helps me at home and we love spending quality time together, both of go grocery shopping together... we love walking down the aisles commenting on things and chatting away.... we spend time together in the kitchen and finish our work quick so that we can spend more time doing some thing that we like doing rather than one person wasting time in the kitchen and the other having a great time watching the tele :)

[rajraj]

... we love walking down the aisles commenting on things and chatting away....


Fun loving kids ! :lol:

[P_R]

:rotfl:

kuppura vizunthaalum meesaiyil man ottaathu :lol:

:| Hey I really meant that.

I have seen many instances of women being reluctant to see guys wean away from traditional roles.

A couple of years back a few friends had party in my room. After the party the floor was thick with chips, samosa bits and what not. The crowd had trickled and it was just a friend of mine who was there and me left.

As I was chatting with her I picked up the broom in the corner and started sweeping the floor. She offered to sweep saying "it doesn't feel nice to see a guy do all this". As this was from a metrobred "modern" girl I was completely taken aback.

[Sandeep]

Hey, helping in house hold works is a must especially when the wife is working.

But to eat of her earning irks me.

[pavalamani pragasam]

Modern day husband helps his wife in each & every household chore like cutting the vegetables, changing nappies, washing the laundry etc, unheard of in his father's generation. But that does not mean he has to send out his wife to earn for him! There is a difference between a man helping his spouse in the house & opting to stay in the house!

[goodsense]

Sandeep wrote:

"Hey, helping in house hold works is a must especially when the wife is working. But to eat of her earning irks me."

It's a pity you are only 26! :wink: :) :P :lol: :D

Don't feel shy now :P

[Sandeep]

I am not shy but I feel ashamed that it has come to the stage that people feel being "house husband" is OK. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:


There is a difference between a man helping his spouse in the house & opting to stay in the house!

Exactly.

[Shakthiprabha.]

The concept of HOUSE HUSBAND is there in foreign I suppose!

I have a freidn of mine, who sponsored her husband's higher study. She worked, while he went to coll, and did soem house job before she got home. (now he is placed in a top position in a bigger co)

HATS OF TO HIS egoless mind to stay at home and study. I RESPECT HIM for considering her worthy enough to fund his studies.

NOTHING SHAMEFUL. nothing AT ALL.

Well, if one has to work and other do house duties, WHAT IS WRONG, (IFFFF) if a man prefers doing house duties and woman earning enough to support the family?

DOES IT SOUND WEIRD? why?

[P_R]

But that does not mean he has to send out his wife to earn for him! There is a difference between a man helping his spouse in the house & opting to stay in the house!
Why does this quesion arise only for men ?

[pavalamani pragasam]

Because man's broad shoulders are meant to, expected to protect the smaller sized woman. So simple as that!

[scorpio]

Because man's broad shoulders are meant to, expected to protect the smaller sized woman. So simple as that!

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Sandeep]

The concept of HOUSE HUSBAND is there in foreign I suppose!

I have a freidn of mine, who sponsored her husband's higher study. She worked, while he went to coll, and did soem house job before she got home. (now he is placed in a top position in a bigger co)

See even you couldn't help but type that statement. See you yourself couldnt support his decision without the fact that he went back for a better job.

As for the HATSOFF, yes Hatsoff to have got out of the "egoless" state, studying well and getting a better job.

[Shakthiprabha.]

:rotfl: SANDEEP.

That statement is to say, by being patient and egoless and taking his wife's contribution and help equally cool, HE STOOD TO GAIN.

If one says, WHY SHOULD I SIT AND STUDY IN MY WIFE'S EARNING, who is the loser?

So was not he the ultimate winner?

Thats what that sentence meant :lol:

[Anoushka]

Sandeep: What is wrong in a man being a house husband... being a house husband doesn't mean that he is at home cleaning and cooking and doing nothing else, maybe he likes to paint or do something different which does not involve going to an office....

I see more and more women taking the responsibility of going into work while their husband gets to do something of his choice these days. It also helps to have a breadwinner when the husband is trying his hand at business or something of that sort, where the income is not as stable as a 9-5 job!

Why is it that a woman gets the choice of staying at home or working while a man has no choice but to work? I feel that men should be given a choice too :)

[Sandeep]

Aiyoooo, Aiyayaooo,

If you change the meaning of the word "house husband" then I have no choice.

There is this Tailor and a Music teacher near my house in native who work from home. Both their wives work in Post office (9-5).

I will not call the Tailor a "House Husband" because he works hard and earns his worth. But the Music Teacher is good for nothing except to disturb my saturday sleep. He doesnt earn anything (for obviuos reasons) and lives on his wives earnings. This is the guy I would have called "House Husband" had he atleast done some domestic work.

[Shakthiprabha.]

Ok. I know I always argue on unwanted things. I know MOST OF U dont agree with me.

But JUst in case, a man feels hapy cleaning cooking and doing jobs errands(complete taking care of home, plus jobs errands).... and wife earns.

I remember seeing an english serial with similar concept. (zee english or something)

Assuming that both of them are happy, Is there something wrong in that? Should it bother us or should we BELITTLE that man, or his wife, SAYING ITS OUT OF ORDINARY?

[Sandeep]

Agree with you SP, 100%.

Same way what is wrong in ME feeling ashamed for him ?

[Shakthiprabha.]

Why should u feel ashamed sandeep?

I agree its ur personal feelings on men staying at home. U are entitled to it.

But why form certain norms, rules and then say, ANYONE OR ANYTHING CROSSING THIS is funny or shame or weird?

yup I agree. ur feelings are purely urs. So therez nothing wrong in u feeling ashamed. ITs each one's personal view after all.

The question is, WHY HAVE PERSONAL VIEWS ON PERSONAL ISSUES OF OTHERS? Where does it pinch us?

Actually thiking in a very broader view, THEN NOTHING IS WRONG.

neither u feeling ashamed
nor he having his life that way
nor anyone doing anything

its all each one's life after all :)

[Sandeep]

WHY HAVE PERSONAL VIEWS ON PERSONAL ISSUES OF OTHERS? Where does it pinch us?

Simple because we are all humans and so Social animals.

I am against forcing my own views on others. But things that happen around me generates views and once views are created they are shared.


Actually thiking in a very broader view, THEN NOTHING IS WRONG.

Its not "thinking in a broader view" but it is "thinking in a detached view".


But why form certain norms, rules and then say, ANYONE OR ANYTHING CROSSING THIS is funny or shame or weird?
Again, becoz we are a social animal. We need each other, we have grown over the other species and wrath of nature by this interdependence. We are physically inequiped to survive in this world but its team work, society that has made us what we are today.

Everything is private but nothing is private

[Shakthiprabha.]

I agree with u.

Where exactly SOCIETY comes in here? Where do u think HIS way of living WOULD AFFECT THE society we live in?

[Sandeep]

SP: Where exactly SOCIETY comes in here?

Society is not comming in, its always there, always commenting, correcting, reacting. Here this Guy is doing something and the society is commenting.

SP: Where do u think HIS way of living WOULD AFFECT THE society we live in?

His way of living is a statement. A statement that is different from the tune of the society and hense needs to be commented on.

[goodsense]

Its is quite common here for huband and wife to take turn in supporting each other's studies. Also it uses to be maternal leave only, now we also have paternal leave. Men are expected to share duties at home whether they like it or not. This is no way seen as "being house husband". :D

Sandeep I wasn't thinking of you as being a "house husband" either. I see a house husband as a house keeper which can be hired. Why use the husband? Let him go out and find a job. I would hate to come home to my husband eah day, I am sure after a while I would get fed up of it. I would hate to see a man around the home too much (I know of house husbands back in my country, only that people never realized it was happening :lol:). Women like me, want time and space :wink:

[P_R]

Why is it that a woman gets the choice of staying at home or working while a man has no choice but to work? I feel that men should be given a choice too Smile :thumbsup: Everytime I raise this topic comes up with friends they think I am just kidding. Either that, or I am arguing for the sake of arguing etc.

Finally someone to agree with.

[goodsense]

Staying at home can be a full time job for those women who do and too much of anything (one routine) is good for nothing. I am sure they get fed up of staying at home and don't see or feel it as a chance to smile or smell the roses. It can be worse than going out the house to work each day :(

[gaddeswarup]

Today I bought a book called "Nature via Nurture" by Matt Ridley, Harper Perenneial, 2004. I did not know any thing about the book or author, but it was on sale for about seven Australian dollars instead of the usual 25 or so and it seemed a small prize to pay to get a low down on nature-nurture business. I am up to page 59 and I think that I got my money's worth already. There are already such gems as:
"A working hypothesis is that oxytocin released during mating activates those limbic sites rich in oxytocin receptors to confer some lasting and selective reinforcement value on the mate".
Apparently, this is a scientist's description of falling in love. Then from page 53 onwards, there is some shocking news (for me). It seems that some psycholgists in USA during a survey in 1930's found that both sexes wanted intelligent, cooperative, trustworthy and loyal partners. But women rated good financial prospects in their partners twice as highly as men. It seems that all the surveys in USA up to the time the book was written came up with the same result: American women rate financial prospects twice as highly as men. One may think that this reflected the value of money in Americal culture. But one David Buss asked 10,047 people from 37 different cultures in six continents and five islands and in every culture women rated financial prospects more highly than men. The difference was highest in Japan and lowest in Holland but it was always there.
Swarup

[Lambretta]

Sandeep: What is wrong in a man being a house husband... being a house husband doesn't mean that he is at home cleaning and cooking and doing nothing else, maybe he likes to paint or do something different which does not involve going to an office....
Hmm......sounds tempting but no tks! :) I've my reasons for not wanting to become one! & I'm sure there r many men who hav the same reason/s...... :wink:


I see more and more women taking the responsibility of going into work while their husband gets to do something of his choice these days. It also helps to have a breadwinner when the husband is trying his hand at business or something of that sort, where the income is not as stable as a 9-5 job!
True.......but the qsn. is even if a husband does get to stay at home, wud he be capable of undertaking ne/every responsibility tat the wife wud normally be capable of (assuming the wife here works really hard & for longer hours like overtime etc. & comes home 2 tired to do ne of the work), esp. the task of bringing up the kids most of the time in the wife's place? How many couples hav been tat successful in this reverse role play I wonder......? 'cos my belief is in most cases tat wud bring abt an imbalance in family sturcture....


Why is it that a woman gets the choice of staying at home or working while a man has no choice but to work? I feel that men should be given a choice too :)
*Ahem*.....Anoushka, I'm sure even if men did hav tat choice, most wud opt against staying at home w/out a job......as I said, we hav our reason/s for it.......guys, maybe u know wat I mean......? :lol:

[rajraj]

Why is it that a woman gets the choice of staying at home or working while a man has no choice but to work? I feel that men should be given a choice too :)

Be careful ! If people like me sit at home they will start harassing people like you in the forum ! :lol:

[Anoushka]

Raj: :lol:

[goodsense]

I think I missed something in my last post. Didn't know that women had the choice of staying at home. Who gave them that choice over men? I thought it was a natural thing related to child bearing and rearing in the old days! Men has the choice of staying home too, but just that it was never an old practice even in agrarian societies, they were out hunting, fishing and gathering while the women stayed at home cooking, taking care of children etc. It's a nature thing.

If a man stays at home and not earning, but his wife is out there earning, the marriage soon breaks down, there is lost of respect for the man with ultimate separation and divorce. He is seen as not contributing to the family.

[sv]

It really appears that some women take it for granted to stay at home. Especially some newly wed kids, i think they get influenced by our indian movies and expect too much from men. They want a man who earns well. Naturally these men have to spend a lot of time at work and cannot spend that much time at home. Some women don't realize that at all. They start to complain that their husbands are not helping at home, are not romantic enough to take them to some movies, they don't even remember their birthdates and so on. The fact is they have that much time to get confused like this! Unless they take up such challenging jobs they can't realize the pressure their poor husbands are going through everyday. Given a choice they also would like to enjoy movies, to rest well and to spend time with their families.
Sure time helps in bringing up the understanding and these problems disappear as years go by.
When i was in college i used to think the world was partial to women, where men get everything in their life. Now I feel sorry for some men and I realize everybody has his/her own problems.

[goodsense]

"Now I feel sorry for some men and I realize everybody has his/her own problems."

Indeed. Feel sorry for women who are single and live alone, not by choice (I mean they can find someone ang get married, but what someone?), by must and have to do everything, feeling well or not some days. Family members around even can't be relied upon cause they are busy with their own lives and you don't want to burden them. You don't even want them to know how it goes some days. People see this as wanting to have freedom, but no. Eeach person has his/her own problems as you put it. One day people will wake up to these realities :wink: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[Lambretta]

If a man stays at home and not earning, but his wife is out there earning, the marriage soon breaks down, there is lost of respect for the man with ultimate separation and divorce. He is seen as not contributing to the family.
Aah...goodsense, u've spilled out the beans to Anoushka's qsn.- partly.......this was one of the reasons I was against the idea of men staying at home not earning!

[Lambretta]

People see this as wanting to have freedom, but no. Eeach person has his/her own problems as you put it. One day people will wake up to these realities :wink:
Good point, goodsense! :D

[sv]

goodsense, you are making me emotional. Always there are some sensible hearts around. There is good time for everyone.
I am not against women. I don't see a point for remaining as a feminist. I am just realizing the world is just not unfair to women alone. Everyone has his/her own problem, and each one has to fight for his/her rights.

[goodsense]

I am getting emotional too. I am here in my office with tears in my eyes. Good thing my partner is not around to see this. May not have been able to hide it from him. I hope people can understand what some of us women go through, especially after a certain age coping with so much of pressure which is often not acknowledged, but taken for granted :cry:

[Lambretta]

Hmmm......

[goodsense]

What is this hmmm...... :)

So where do you put me on the polls? :oops: That was serious today, no joke about it :wink: :)

[Lambretta]

"Hmmm" meant tat I was just wondering how u 2 got emotional here in the course of discussions in this thread......or maybe I'd hav understood better if I were a woman....:D

[goodsense]

I think it was just a build of issues for sometime and I have been escaping it. One way was to be on forum and may be today I felt there was no escape. Women out there today in this society really have it, but seldom show it :wink:

[Lambretta]

Women out there today in this society really have it, but seldom show it :wink:
True, sum don't show it as they fear they'd be seen as weak, sum don't bcos they hate to be seen as weak......:)

[goodsense]

Some men go through it too, just that they are stronger, emotionally. I mean, they find it more diffcult to cope. We have our private cries and move on, but they just pack it in, in no time 8-)

[Lambretta]

Some men go through it too, just that they are stronger, emotionally. I mean, they find it more diffcult to cope. We have our private cries and move on, but they just pack it in, in no time 8-)
I'l let u in on a little 'secret' of mine- unlike most other men I've had my private cries too, occasionally.....when I sumtimes find them difficult to 'pack in'! But very private, only when I'm alone..neways I guess I jus want to appear 'stronger', emotionally & maybe am not so in reality! :(

[goodsense]

This is very interesting, but my brain is so tired having such a long day. I don't want to say something silly. I will give it more thought when my brain is afreshed.

[dev]

Why is it that a woman gets the choice of staying at home or working while a man has no choice but to work? I feel that men should be given a choice too :)

Well said, Anou... :thumbsup:

[sv]

Lambretta, oru ponnoda manasu ponnukkuthaan puriyum :)

[Lambretta]

Lambretta, oru ponnoda manasu ponnukkuthaan puriyum :)
Irukalam........aana oru amblai-ode manasu amblai-ke puriathu-nu enaku thonnathu! :(

[great]

Lambretta, oru ponnoda manasu ponnukkuthaan puriyum :)
Irukalam........aana oru amblai-ode manasu amblai-ke puriathu-nu enaku thonnathu! :( :lol: :lol: lamby, athaellam kathaikku than nalla irrukum :lol:

[Lambretta]

:lol: :lol: lamby, athaellam kathaikku than nalla irrukum :lol:
:lol: See, this jus proves my point! :wink:

[sv]

:lol:

[goodsense]

After the movie - Bride and Prejudice, in which Aishwarya Rai stood her grounds, walking out of the theatre, the message I got is that it would change Indian men in their thinking - that they would know what they can and can't expect from a wife. I mean the reasons why they lose them to men from other cultures. Wanted to open a thread on this, but thought I put this here. There are many reasons why our men are losing their women to other cultures, not than the women want it that way :(

[pavalamani pragasam]

Want some fun?

http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?t=278&start=120

[Lambretta]

I mean the reasons why they lose them to men from other cultures. Wanted to open a thread on this, but thought I put this here. There are many reasons why our men are losing their women to other cultures, not than the women want it that way :(
Um, goodsense, where did u mean this is happening? R u talking abt Indians living abroad, 'cos to the best of my knowledge, this is surely not happening (atleast not on such a large scale) in India at present! :? So I guess u meant Indians abroad, where one needn't stick to traditions/cultures & individual freedom matters.......even there I'm aware tat its mostly NRI men who r 'losing' themselves to women of other cultures (mainly for acquiring foreign citizenships! :P)

>>PP ma'm: I'm afraid my illetracy in Tamil made me lose out again on the fun u mentioned! :(

[pavalamani pragasam]

Lambretta, here is the transliteration for you:

illaththarasan

adiyE en kaNNaatti
kadiyaaram Oduthadi
nEranthaan aakuthadi
methuvaaka ezunthiradi
inthaa kaappi thaNNi
sooda kudichchiru thaayi
kulichchiputtu vanthuvidu

munthiriyum milakum minukka
veNpongalum unakkaaka
malliyappoo ittiliyum
koththamalli sattiniyum
pooriyum kizangkum kooda
mEsaiyila vachchirukkEn
parimaara kaaththirukkEn

pillaikala kulippaatti
uduththivittu uNNavachchi
maththiyaana uNavu katti
puththaka paiyOda pallikku
anuppi vachcha kaiyOda
kazuvi kavuththi mudichchiruvEn
perukki thudachchi vachchiruvEn
thuvachchi kaaya pOttupittu
chinna thookkam pOduvEn

siRRuNdi senjsa pinnE
palli vittu vanthathukalukku
mookku sinthi mukam kazuvi
paadam solli koduththu
kooda vilaiyaadi kathai solli
padukka vachchi pOrththiputtu
kottaavikala vittapadi
tholaikaatchi paaththukittu
nee varum vazi mEla vizi vachchi
kaaththuthaan kidappEnE

kalachchi pOyi varuvaayE
un viral neevi vittapadi
aasaiyaa pEsi asathi pOkki
uNavootti urangka vaippEn
maadaa uzachchi Odaa thenjchi nee
kattu kattaa kondu vanthu
kudumbaththOda kumbi kulira
kanjchi ooththi kaappaathura
un kai pidichcha baakkiyasaali
karaNdi pidichcha kaNavan naan
nizalil vaadaamalnaanirukka
nithamum vathangkura vanithaiya
vaathaiyinri vachchiruppEnE
annimmathiyil urangkuvEn
athikaalaila enthirukkanungkira
oththa ninaippOdathaanE


( "illaththarasan" is the masculine gender word for "llaththarasi"=homemaker)

[a.ratchasi]

...Indians abroad, where one needn't stick to traditions/cultures & individual freedom matters.......
:roll: :roll:

[Lambretta]

...Indians abroad, where one needn't stick to traditions/cultures & individual freedom matters.......
:roll: :roll:
Y the disbelief, a.r?? Isn't it true? Or did u think I was appreciating tat? :huh:

PP ma'm, tks for the translation! :) Altho I'm not too fluent in following literary tamil either (:oops:), I was able to get it to sum extent! Nice one! :D

[a.ratchasi]

...Indians abroad, where one needn't stick to traditions/cultures & individual freedom matters.......
:roll: :roll:
Y the disbelief, a.r?? Isn't it true? Or did u think I was appreciating tat? :huh:


I have sent you a pm.

[goodsense]

Good Morning Lamby (Lammy).

Yes I agree, NRI's marry foreign women for citizenship, but it doesn't stop there. I have seen how much these guys turned in to "house-husbands" overnight :lol: Yes, they quickly know how to share in duties and go overboard in doing so. I can't help stretchihg my neck around when I walk the streets, be it Europe or North America, seeing how they push the proms and .... I have observed thes men when with an Indian female outside. It is the woman who pushes the prom or hold the child and sometimes the man is walking way ahead of her, nt abrest and no conversations, no hand holding etc. I never could understand why 8-)

Marrying out of the culture, goes beyond being house-husbands, - they become eternal slaves (a working man, a house-husband and the other kind of husband outside). That's how I see them :wink: The women has bought an eternal slave for life, even after she decides she doesn't want to love with him any loner. Just take him to the divorce court and take everything and see that he takes his responsibility as father while they move on to affair and what not and they choose the right time to do this and have the courts fully on their side.

[goodsense]

So Lammy, whether yo are 24 and male living in India, or female over 30 and living abroad, we all have private cries, only that they are about different things. They say, take the cup half full or half empty :) But I know, sometimes those cries are inescapeable, but they help you to face the world bravely :wink:

[Lambretta]

The women has bought an eternal slave for life, even after she decides she doesn't want to love with him any loner. Just take him to the divorce court and take everything and see that he takes his responsibility as father while they move on to affair and what not and they choose the right time to do this and have the courts fully on their side.
Also true.....I guess those men who marry only for foreign citizenships realise everything comes w/ a price, no such thing as free lunch! :wink:
Tat reminds me, a friend of mine at Singapore (who was B'deshi but raised in Saudi Arabia) told me he once attended this International school in Saudi where he had this American teacher who wud wear only Sarees/Indian jewellery! So once his father, curious, asked her abt it when they were talking.......turned out tat she'd met an Indian guy on a fellowship or sumthing while in the US & fell in luv w. him (which was also when she took interest in the attires/aspects of Indian culture) & agreed to marry him......she then got him a job & he later got to be a US citizen thru her.......then one fine day, he told her wanted to visit home & went back to India but didn't return for a month or so.....she wasn't able to get in touch w/ him & didn't know his home address either......later on, she got a divorce notice from him, where he'd stated tat he'd remarried while in India & came back to live sumwhere else in the US w/ another job!
And prob. after tat she decided to take up the teaching job in Saudi & move there....
But I can't help thinking how cheap/unjust it was on the part of tat man to play such a trick on her! :evil:

Oh btw goodsense, I didn't quite get an answer for my query to ur comment abt us "losing out our women to men of other cultures"......? Were u referring to NRI women (or perhaps- it jus occured to me- those of Indian origin, as urself) when u said this? I didn't quite get u here!

[Lambretta]

So Lammy, whether yo are 24 and male living in India, or female over 30 and living abroad, we all have private cries, only that they are about different things. They say, take the cup half full or half empty :) But I know, sometimes those cries are inescapeable, but they help you to face the world bravely :wink:
Bitter tho they r, they r very True!

[sv]

Hi goodsense, i undertand what you are telling. Its strange how some indian men can bend to a foreigner but not to their own women.
One of the (indian) females in our neighbourhood is a gold medalist in her highschools and is a doctor. Her husband doesn't want her to work and he treats her very badly. Some of the young indian couples face problems in the initial years of their marriage, probably because they want the best of both cultures in their partners. They hardly realize their partners have the same expectations! As i said before even some indian women do the same. In my opinion, many indians living abroad lose the basic indian values of tolerance and understanding. Time really is a good teacher.

[goodsense]

Lamby,

I was referring to the females abroad cause at home there is no opportunity.

SV,

Even the most innocent bride do not get the same attention as the foreigner. I just don’t understand it. When I think of these things, I am glad to be alone :D

[Lambretta]

[tscii]Lamby,

I was referring to the females abroad cause at home there is no opportunity.
Which is wat I reckoned too, tks for clearing this doubt! :)
Altho I'm afraid a comment of mine in my query to this statement of urs caused a brief misunderstanding abt me in a.r! :( Hopefully tat too is cleard now.....

[P_R]

Want some fun?

http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?t=278&start=120

Pretty interesting ! As a poem I like it, just as I liked your "India Smiles".
But I do not understand why there has to be a power structure like this ? Why do you have to assume a very slavish frame-of-mind for whoever wields the ladle ?

[pavalamani pragasam]

How will you translate power, physically or spiritually?

[P_R]

How will you translate power, physically or spiritually? I don't think I got your queston completely.
What I was trying to get at is, "why should the person who takes care of home be regarded a step below the one who goes out and earns ? Just as it is wrong to treat housewives like that, it would be equally wrong to think of house-husbands as servile creatures. When the role of house-wife gets the respect it deserves, it is going to be sought after by men too.

[pavalamani pragasam]

Who said housewife is inferior because of staying at home, or a house husband is to be humiliated because he stays at home? It is rather a question of who belongs where, naturally!

[P_R]

Who said housewife is inferior because of staying at home, or a house husband is to be humiliated because he stays at home?

There was heavy tinge of servility in your lines:


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¯ý ¨¸ À¢Êîº À¡ì¸¢Âº¡Ä¢


«ó¿¢õÁ¾¢Â¢ø ¯Èí̧Åý
«¾¢¸¡¨ÄÄ ±ó¾¢Ã¢ì¸Ïí¸È
´ò¾ ¦¿Éô§À¡¼¾¡§É
[/tscii:f6495329eb]

Once again, I really liked the poem and I personally think it is inappropriate to agree/diagree with a poet based on the opinions expressed in a poem. But, as you quoted it I am arguing the opinion expressed (which I understand need not necessarily be your personal opinions).

[Lambretta]

What I was trying to get at is, "why should the person who takes care of home be regarded a step below the one who goes out and earns ? Just as it is wrong to treat housewives like that, it would be equally wrong to think of house-husbands as servile creatures.
Well PR, isn't it tat in our overall society a house-husband is considered to be below dignity, as opposed to a housewife (altho PP ma'm may not think so)? Its difficult to change the perception of a large segment of a society isn't it? Not tat I mean to get personal but wud u like to try tat role? ie. for eg. being entirely dependent on ur wife's earnings...? Think abt it, making an honest self-retrospection & then revert! :D

[pavalamani pragasam]

Prabhu Ram, I was only taking a dig at the male chauvnistic attitude found in our society which is the cause that triggers all unwanted pseudo "women's liberation" tendencies fanned by MEDIA leading in short to another extreme situation! Fortunately a housewife is an uncrowned queen in our households! It is my desire to see it in all sections of society!

[Sandeep]

I wonder, whats the need of house wife (forget house husband) anymore?
All cleaning activities are now mechanized, food is taken from outside and kids are taken care at creche. Husband and wife just need to work outside and make enough money to run all this.

[pavalamani pragasam]

What a machine life with machines & lack of human attachment. More money less time for real LOVE! An age of creches & old age homes because man & woman chase money hand in hand together! Wonderful life!

[Lambretta]

What a machine life with machines & lack of human attachment. More money less time for real LOVE!
Exactly! Might I add- at a later stage, more money on Viagra, more time on physical satisfaction, less time for real LOVE (no money needed here neways!)
Sandeep, were u serious in ur post?? :roll: Or were u actually being ironic? :?

Btw PP ma'm, reg. ur previous comment:

Fortunately a housewife is an uncrowned queen in our households!
Y wud u think tat's fortunate? :?

[rajraj]

pp,Lambretta,Sandeep:

The trouble is that people don't realize that bringing up children is a full time job. An article in Dallas Morning News on 'stay at home mothers' says that those mothers earn about $130000 doing what is needed at home.
Too bad India is going the way of the west! :(

[pavalamani pragasam]

Cent percent! It is unmanly of a man to uproot a woman from her rightful place of pride & achievement! The menfolk around me are of a more chivalrous kind!

[Lambretta]

The trouble is that people don't realize that bringing up children is a full time job.
Actually Rajraj, the trouble is they DO see the whole thing as a JOB, hence as an OBLIGATION/BURDEN, which wudn't be seen in sumthing they'd do out of LOVE/AFFECTION!
Today I find many ppl. to whom I've talked abt this, saying tat its not possible to hav the same type of family outlook tat cud be had 30 yrs ago bcos wat were luxuries then hav become necessities now therefore it can't be helped if both hav more affinity towards making more money however possible! But I feel wat they say isn't nec. true! There is a tinge of self-centred materialism also in today's lives......I can sense it even tho I'm not in a householder stage as yet!

An article in Dallas Morning News on 'stay at home mothers' says that those mothers earn about $130000 doing what is needed at home.
Um......how tho?? :?

Too bad India is going the way of the west! :(
Tat too taking one of the ways tat shudn't hav been frequented! :(

[rajraj]

Lambretta.
Here is an article that says it all! :)


http://aol.salary.com/careersandwork/salary/articles/atcl_careeradvice.asp?atc=358

[Lambretta]

Ok ok got it! :D This is an assumption of how much a stay-at-home mom WUD be getting if it were a paid job (which I hope it doesn't become! :()

[viLakkumaaru]

It is unmanly of a man to uproot a woman from her rightful place of pride & achievement!

All the cooks in every indian restaurant here in Germany are all males! I would like to know why! Yes it is a sad thing to chase away the women from the kitchen and cooking. :lol:
But we men leave you your kiNaththadi and chembu. You don't have to be afraid of your kiNaththadi chitchat. :lol:

Ladies and Gentlemen, it ought to be a joke only, don't be hurt.

[viLakkumaaru]

It is unmanly of a man to uproot a woman from her rightful place of pride & achievement!

All the cooks in every indian restaurant here in Germany are all males! I would like to know why! Yes it is a sad thing to chase away the women from the kitchen and cooking. :lol:
But we men leave you your kiNaththadi and chembu. You don't have to be afraid of your kiNaththadi chitchat. :lol:

Ladies and Gentlemen, it ought to be a joke only, don't be hurt.

[Sandeep]

I am neither being ironic or supporting it, I was just speaking out the truth. Right or wrong thats where we are going.

We are a lot ahead in time to think that house is where the woman should be. Women have proven quiet well that they are suited for outside work also (even in army). And as careers are to be made and ambitions need to be fulfiled who has time to take care babies.

[goodsense]

Lambretta wrote:

"Altho I'm afraid a comment of mine in my query to this statement of urs caused a brief misunderstanding abt me in a.r! Hopefully tat too is cleard now....."

Well I am only wondering why is it that the flaw in the reasoning when comparing a traditional female from what they call the modern day female, is not reckoned with. More than likely the traditional female is one who never left the village or never had an education and got married at age 18 to 25 or so. These days she might be lucky to have an average education even if she never left the hometown and still be referred to as the traditional bride compared to one who has gone abroad which has required more sacrifice - being away from family community and their support, faced more challenged which calls for application of certain skills of survival. The ambition she is driven by and all that she has to accommodate using her abilities etc. are overshadowed by all the negative factors like going abroad and submerging in foreign cultures or had one or more previous relationship all for which she is rejected :wink:

Look at the FLAWS in reasoning here and the refusal to give her, her true place! The man who has don similar things will be Praised with no second though. After all, I is the efforts of men and women that should be put together to build a civilized society to which they are both part of. In the end even the traditional bride gets used and abused as we know it :(

[Lambretta]

Women have proven quiet well that they are suited for outside work also (even in army).
Speaking of serving in Army, I've been skeptical if they can go along w/ such careers.....we cud say tat getting into it may not prove to be difficult for them but otoh, the real challenge comes when/if there is a war & they hav to do their best on par w/ male counterparts in providing their service. And every country known may boast of having the best/strongest Army but ne Army, however good, can be defeated & soldiers taken captive in an ambush (which was proved even during the Kargil War). So if women take part in battles, is it impossible for ne of them to be physically overpowered by men, esp. if they r outnumbered by men? Moreover there's always the danger in such a situation tat women can be subjected to sexual/other physical tortures while in captivity!
Therefore I'd say tat taking such a choice is sumthing worth thinking over first......women shud be willing to opt for such careers only IF they do it as committment, thus knowing fully well wat cud come w/ it & r prepared for wat it takes, not jus w/ the intent of proving superiority/capability to compete w/ men!


And as careers are to be made and ambitions need to be fulfiled who has time to take care babies.
Sandeep, I wud say here tat we shud also be beyond the time where babies r considered the only world for women after marriage! :) Tats def. not all wat marriage/having a family is abt; there r cases where the choice of a busy life based on high-profile/competitive careers in case of both partners (as of today's society) hav resulted in not just physical but even emotional instability, lack of contentment, committment etc. in marriages....
I can say this bcos at one stage even both my parents had busy careers, both being almost equally qualified in the same field.....donno how exactly to describe it, life at home was like a never ending high-tide then! To be honest, it was a miracle they didn;t break up!
I find it all so ironical........ppl. getting into this tangle of goals bcos they think they do it all only for thier family but ultimately tats wat they end up losing out on, in many cases, bcos of their desperation in keeping up w/ their goals......:(
But otoh, I'm certainly not insisting tat all women shud sit at home after marriage! 'cos there r certainly other career options as well, tat don't demand too much personal sacrifice on their part, unless its sumthing tat they've been specifically interested to pursue (w/ or w/out money factor).

[Lambretta]

All the cooks in every indian restaurant here in Germany are all males! I would like to know why!
Well, most prob. bcos their wives r back home busy tending to the kids while these guys sweat it out there abroad, as cooks or watever....tats the most probable reason in many a case! :)

[gaddeswarup]

[tscii:4578b95771]Many of the members may be aware of these things, but I came across these only recently. A site for women's writing in Soth Asia:
http://www.womenswriting.com/
A book about women's writing in Ancient India in two volumes. the first was reviewd by Anita Desai :
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/3031

Women Writing In India; 600 B.C. To The Present : Vol. I, 600 B.C To The Early 20Th Century

English / Authors- Tharu; Susie; Lalitha; K (Eds.): (New Delhi: Oxford University Press, 1991)
This book as well as the second volume still seem to be available in second hand book shops. I am enclosing part of the contents:

Therigatha (Songs of the Nuns, 6th century B.C.) Pali 65
Mutta: [So free am I, so gloriously free] 68
Ubbiri: [“O Ubbiri, who wails in the wood”] 68
Sumangalamata: [A woman well set free! How free I am] 69
Mettika: [Though I am weak and tired now] 69

The Sangam Poets (ca. 100 B.C.—250 A.D.) Tamil 70
Venmanipputi: [What she said to her girlfriend] 73
Velli Vitiyar: [He will not dig up the earth and enter it] 74
Velli Vitiyar: [You tell me I am wrong, my friend] 74
Auvaiyar: What She Said 75
Auvaiyar: [You cannot compare them with a lute] 75
Kavar Pentu: [You stand and hold the post of my small house] 75
Kakkaipatiniyar Naccellaiyar: [His armies love massacre] 76
Okkur Macattiyar: [Her purpose is frightening, her spirit cruel] 77

Akkamahadevi (12th century) Kannada 77
[Don’t despise me] 79
[Brother, you’ve come] 79
[Not one, not two, not three or four] 80
[Would a circling surface vulture] 80

Sule Sankavva (12th century) Kannada 81
[In my harlot’s trade] 81

Janabai (ca. 1298—1350) Marathi 82
[Cast off all shame] 83
[Jani sweeps the floor] 83
Swarup
[/tscii:4578b95771]

[goodsense]

We know women are crying in villages and in big cities and these are the things we need to discuss - why?

What support systems do we have for women who want to maintain traditions when they move away from traditional areas. I am sure many women want to when they move away fom their villages and I know many fear moving out for the same reasons, if not them their families who would not let them out of sight. Some families can't say no to some of us, we take out decisions and live with the consequences. This shouldn't be, cause half the time, we don't know what is ahead or what could be ahead :o

[P_R]

Not tat I mean to get personal but wud u like to try tat role? ie. for eg. being entirely dependent on ur wife's earnings...? Think abt it, making an honest self-retrospection & then revert! I usually avoid getting personal here but I'll make a first and last exception.

My honest opinion: I may have other objections to being a house husband (like, as someone said: smelling roses can get boring after a while). But living off my wife's earnings is something I don't have issues over (she may :-( )
Prabhu Ram, I was only taking a dig at the male chauvnistic attitude found in our society which is the cause that triggers all unwanted pseudo "women's liberation" tendencies fanned by MEDIA leading in short to another extreme situation! Thought as much :-)

[a.ratchasi]

Today is International Very Good Looking, Damn Smart Woman's Day, so please send this message to someone you think fits this description.

To the Girls !!

Inside every older person is a younger person -- wondering what the hell happened.
Cora Harvey Armstrong

Inside me lives a skinny woman crying to get out. But I can usually
shut the bitch up with cookies.
(Unknown)

The hardest years in life are those between ten and seventy.
Helen Hayes (at 73)

I refuse to think of them as chin hairs. I think of them as stray
eyebrows.
Janette Barber

Things are going to get a lot worse before they get worse.
Lily Tomlin

My second favorite household chore is ironing. My first one being -
hitting my head on the top bunk bed until I faint.
Erma Bombeck

Old age ain't no place for sissies.
Bette Davis

A man's got to do what a man's got to do. A woman must do what he can't.
Rhonda Hansome

The phrase "working mother" is redundant.
Jane Sellman

Every time I close the door on reality, it comes in through the
windows.
Jennifer Unlimited

Whatever women must do they must do twice as well as men to be
thought half as good. Luckily, this is not difficult.
Charlotte Whitton

Thirty-five is when you finally get your head together and your body starts falling apart.
Caryn Leschen

I try to take one day at a time -- but sometimes several days attack me at once.
Jennifer Unlimited

If you can't be a good example -- then you'll just have to be a
horrible warning.
Catherine

I'm not offended by all the dumb blonde jokes because I know I'm not dumb -- and I'm also not blonde.
Dolly Parton

If high heels were so wonderful, men would still be wearing them.
Sue Grafton

I'm not going to vacuum 'til Sears makes one you can ride on.
Roseanne Barr

When women are depressed they either eat or go shopping. Men invade another country.
Elayne Boosler

Behind every successful man is a surprised woman.
Maryon Pearson

In politics, if you want anything said, ask a man. If you want
anything done, ask a woman.
Margaret Thatcher

I have yet to hear a man ask for advice on how to combine marriage and a career.
Gloria Steinem

I am a marvelous housekeeper. Every time I leave a man, I keep his house.
Zsa Zsa Gabor

Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission.
Eleanor Roosevelt[/i]

[pavalamani pragasam]

The last story in this page is a hilarious tale of a house husband:

http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?t=5619&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=45

[Anoushka]

somehow I feel that somewhere along the line we have put men and women in boxes and said this is where they belong to!

I was talking to hubby dear about the discussion going on here and he thinks that men should be given a choice of working or not working (Though he thinks he will go mad if he sits at home)... :)