Misconception and Misuse of Yoga by the west

[Raghu]

[tscii:5a89236c74]Dear all,


I have watched many Yoga programs conducted in the west (USA/UK) by westerners , they are really pathetic, they do not learn the essence of Yoga properly, they pick up various techniques from Yoga, which beautifies the body, than the purification of the mind by understanding the Brahman!

They treat this as a body enhancing exercises, they don’t teach the essence of bhakthi Yoga, Gnana yoga and karma yoga! Has any one noticed such misconception?

And shall we discuss the purpose of Bhakthi Yoga, Gnana Yoga and Karma Yoga in Great details, please?

Thanks
Raghu

[/tscii:5a89236c74]

[sivajayan]

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[lordstanher]

[tscii:f04bf0fbc7]
I have watched many Yoga programs conducted in the west (USA/UK) by westerners , they are really pathetic, they do not learn the essence of Yoga properly, they pick up various techniques from Yoga, which beautifies the body, than the purification of the mind.......They treat this as a body enhancing exercises, they don’t teach the essence of bhakthi Yoga, Gnana yoga and karma yoga! Has any one noticed such misconception?
Yes, I see loads of videos/CDs/books on Yoga lessons on sale in Western markets.......it seems to be turning more of a commercial thing there......but then, they're like, foreigners so I guess we cudn't expect much understanding of Yoga from them.....! :)
Not just Yoga but I bet the only/main thing abt Indian culture itself tat most Westerners today know thoroughly is Kamasutra! And of course its our own ppl. who r responsible for giving them tat perception! :evil:
(ok 'nuff digression :D)

But I daresay many of the present gen. even in India looking at Yoga in the same way, as just sum kind of 'cool' excercise for occasional relaxation rather than spiritual purification.....?


And shall we discuss the purpose of Bhakthi Yoga, Gnana Yoga and Karma Yoga in Great details, please?
Sure, tat'd be welcome! :D
I'm int'd to know these details as I've begun attending Yoga classes every Sunday at the local Ramakrishna Mission (I prefer to learn it there for better understanding rather than from sum 'commercial' institute!)
[/tscii:f04bf0fbc7]

[madhuk]

Raghu said:
"I have watched many Yoga programs conducted in the west ... they pick up various techniques from Yoga, which beautifies the body, than the purification of the mind by understanding the Brahman!"

When I read your words 'understanding of Brahman', it just reminded me Rampuri, the 18 year old affluent white drug addict left his family in 1969 to live in India and live the way people lived 1000 years ago. He published a book 'Baba : Autobiography of a Blue-Eyed Yogi'.
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Yoga's primary role is execsize and breethig to keep body and mind in shape.
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[ssanjinika]

Madhuk
Bashing a particular sect or putting down a religion is sure way of starting ugly fights in a public forum.Why do something like that???

[madhuk]

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[Rohit]

Yes Madhuk, it would completely nullify your stand; and your views would be more divisive of Indians if you go after a specific social group who were falsely classified as they were only due to the ignorance of contemporary religious fanatics. Today, most sensible and reasonable Indians would look down on such heedlessness and nonsense of social segregation based on primitive caste system, I hope.

Yes, of course, there are far more ignorant, unthinking and blinded Indians then there are intelligent, aware, judicious and rational Indians. The wisdom of wise lies in spotting the corrupt, polluted and dishonest people and their views by thoroughly condemning and rejecting them to strengthen more of the judicious and rational temperaments.

[Surya]

[tscii:3552542b53]Dear all,


I have watched many Yoga programs conducted in the west (USA/UK) by westerners , they are really pathetic, they do not learn the essence of Yoga properly, they pick up various techniques from Yoga, which beautifies the body, than the purification of the mind by understanding the Brahman!

They treat this as a body enhancing exercises, they don’t teach the essence of bhakthi Yoga, Gnana yoga and karma yoga! Has any one noticed such misconception?

And shall we discuss the purpose of Bhakthi Yoga, Gnana Yoga and Karma Yoga in Great details, please?

Thanks
Raghu

[/tscii:3552542b53]

Excellent TOPIC!! :clap: I have felt that many times also! They have no IDEA about the Kundalini, they have no clue about the Gnana that can be attained by it. "The Essence" As u have discribed it in the poll is slipping away from the western minds, in that case, Eastern minds also! :(

Sure!! Bring on the discussion on Gnyana Yogam, Bhakthi Yogam, and Kundalini Yogam also! :D :D

[lordstanher]

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[aravindhan]

AdiShankara was born 1000 years after Buddha and yet, he failed to incorporate equality at birth and use tamil instead of sanslkrit in his preaching.
Ramanuja tried to do both. He succeeded partially, in that Tamil is still used as a liturgical language in Aiyyangar temples (although along with Sanskrit), and some Aiyyangars still believe that the Tamil songs of the Azhwars are of higher sanctity than the Sanskrit vedas, as he appears to have taught. Some of the purest Tamil of the mediaeval period is contained in religious texts written by tenkalai Aiyyangars. As far as equality at birth goes, if I remember correctly, one of his disciples records him as saying that asking a person of his birth was about as abominable as asking to examine "peRRa thayin yoni". Here, though, he was a spectacular failure, as his followers within two generations returned to the casteist practices which he had urged them to eschew.

[aravindhan]

[tscii:d80f9d0f5c]
They treat this as a body enhancing exercises, they don’t teach the essence of bhakthi Yoga, Gnana yoga and karma yoga! Has any one noticed such misconception?

The Yoga practiced in the west actually has very little to do with the Yoga of which you're speaking. They are completely different systems, with very different origins. It might be useful to quickly summarise the differences before we get into a discussion of each of the systems.

Yoga has always had a large number of meanings in the Indian tradition. There are of course the Bhakti, Jnana and Karma Yogas of which the Gita speaks. There is also, however, Raja Yoga, which is the philosophy described in the Yoga sutras of Patanjali, and is rather different from all these. Patanjali felt that the strongest impediment to identity with Purusha (I don't think he uses the word "Brahman", but I could be wrong) was the nature of the human mind, and his sutras describe an eightfold system for disciplining the fluctuating, varying mind. One of its eight components is practicing certain seated poses, which are much simpler than what we call Yoga today, and are no more important than the other seven. Also, Patanjali's concept of union is grounded in Samkhya philosophy, and is therefore very different from the vedantic notions of Brahman with which Bhakti, Jnana and Karma Yoga are associated.

The asana-based Yoga we know of today is slightly related to Patanjali's system, but is also very different. In the 15th century, a disciple of Swami Gorakhnath wrote a book called "Hatha Yoga Pradipika", which in effect created a new system. This system was very strongly influenced by the more esoteric practices of the Siddhars (the pradipika begins by listing the great siddhars, starting with Siva, whose philosophy it says it follows). As a result, the notion of "realising identity with Purusha" which Patanjali speaks of is replaced by a concept of samadhi. And, to complicate things even further, the pradipika also blends into this mixture the ideas of chakra, kundalini, nadi and so on which had earlier been associated exclusively with tantric practice.

Hatha Yoga had practically died out by the 20th century, when one Tirumalai Krishnamachary revived it. His hatha yoga is largely based on the theories of the Pradipika. However, it greatly expands the rather limited collection of asanas which the Pradipika describes (no more than 15 or 16). The new asanas which Krishnamachary introduced were taken, again, from his observation of the siddha-derived practices of people in the villages of Tamil Nadu, and from the practices of monks in Tibet, where Krishnamachary spent several years studying. Most Yoga practiced today is derived from Krishnamachary's teachings. As with the pradipika, this system too places much emphasis on the physical aspects of Yoga.

There is yet another type of Yoga, called Kriya Yoga which was developed by Swami Yogananda, based on the teachings of Shyamcharan Lahiri. This system is claimed to be the rediscovery through mystical means of a "lost" system of ancient times, originally practiced by the Siddhars (Agattiyar and Bogar are specifically mentioned). The so-called "Bikram Yoga" is based on this system.

It is these latter two systems that have spread themselves to the west (and in India), and all too often by people whose primary concern is feathering their nests. Bhakti is not as important a part of these systems as it is of the Gita's concept of yoga, so it is quite easy to cut it out and prepare a more easily marketable product.[/tscii:d80f9d0f5c]

[lordstanher]

In the 15th century, a disciple of Swami Gorakhnath wrote a book called "Hatha Yoga Pradipika", which in effect created a new system. This system was very strongly influenced by the more esoteric practices of the Siddhars (the pradipika begins by listing the great siddhars, starting with Siva, whose philosophy it says it follows). Hatha Yoga had practically died out by the 20th century, when one Tirumalai Krishnamachary revived it. His hatha yoga is largely based on the theories of the Pradipika. However, it greatly expands the rather limited collection of asanas which the Pradipika describes (no more than 15 or 16).
I was told at the Ramakrishna Mission today tat neone who practices Yoga is termed as a Hatha-yogi....?


There is yet another type of Yoga, called Kriya Yoga which was developed by Swami Yogananda, based on the teachings of Shyamcharan Lahiri.
Yes, I heard of this too today! :D


It is these latter two systems that have spread themselves to the west (and in India), and all too often by people whose primary concern is feathering their nests. Bhakti is not as important a part of these systems as it is of the Gita's concept of yoga, so it is quite easy to cut it out and prepare a more easily marketable product.
So does it mean tat wat the commercial Yoga instructors teach is the Kriya Yoga?

[sivajayan]

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[Raghu]

[tscii:84de544cf8]

They treat this as a body enhancing exercises, they don’t teach the essence of bhakthi Yoga, Gnana yoga and karma yoga! Has any one noticed such misconception?

The Yoga practiced in the west actually has very little to do with the Yoga of which you're speaking. They are completely different systems, with very different origins. It might be useful to quickly summarise the differences before we get into a discussion of each of the systems.




Dear Aravindhan,

Correct, but it is very sad to see Yoga being mis interpreted in west, if any of you have sky Digital, pls watch Channel 828, it is called 'AsthaTV' , there they show quite of lot Swamiji's teaching Yoga, excellent teachings![/tscii:84de544cf8]

[sivajayan]

Correct, but it is very sad to see Yoga being mis interpreted in west, if any of you have sky Digital, pls watch Channel 828, it is called 'AsthaTV' , there they show quite of lot Swamiji's teaching Yoga, excellent teachings!

What are you doing yourself to correct it? Comming here and crying aiyoo, aiyoo?

It is not at all a new subject that we westerners don't know anything about India and Hinduism and all the other things that ejected in India. Also we may be ignorant about her. But all the Indians who dwell in the west what are you doing to educate us? Rice, curry chutney and garlic chicken ... we know all these things. We also spend some money to educate poor children also in India.

But what are you doing yourself to explain us about India?

[Uthappam]

I think, there are two types of youga - the money making type and the free type.

The Indians brought the first type to the west to make money - about 300 dollars for 3 lessons kind.

The free type - the mystical one, which is difficult, is left in india only to be talked about by those who what to use words like 'great indian stuff for the world'. Even the Indians don't understand that 2nd type of youga. What you demanding here, Mr Sivajayan?

[madhuk]

Could you tell me why you have deleted my Post? This Forum allowed people to discuss freely in the past. You have no problem in posting the promotion of Aryan/sanskrit culture. You forgot 98% Indians are Dravidians, and they have every right to question Aryan/sanskrit culture. I noticed this Forum has become a mouth piece of Brahminists and it is a shame. The same people who live in America enjoy every right of free speech but they want to deny the same right to vast majoprity of Indian Dravidians. I hope Dravidianists reject this policy and demand for equal Access. Today you deny our rights, and remember tomorrow your rights will be denied.

[mahadevan]

yoga in terms of its benifits can be broadly classified into i) for Physical well being, ii) For mental well being (the former 2 are related) and iii)spiritual well being

What attracts the people in West is the first 2 and not the last one, which is engulfed in mystery and dogmatism. The first 2 forms does deliver benifits, I have personally seen people who have practised yoga for decades, they are in excellent health even in their seventies.

In that sense it is just like jogging/physical exercise. As long as it benifits let us use it, rather than saying, 'to benifit from the exercises you got pray to that specific god, in that specific manner etc etc' this dragging of god may have been a force to make people to do some yoga thanks to the fear of god in us. So let us seperate sensible yoga from the mystism and kick of dogmatism, bhakthi yoga or whatever.

[Badri]

Madhuk: Kindly re-read the posting guidelines for this Forum in the Do's and Dont's thread.

Discussions on Aryan/Dravidan divides are not acceptable. This Forum is Indian History and Culture, which includes everything from the Indus valley to the Mughals to Kushwant Singh. There is no such agenda as propaganda of any one particulat aspect of this glorious culture.

Pls also note that such references to caste or races, as made in your post are not acceptable.

Also please note that this is no platform for you to "fight" for your rights. Nor are we proposing to have an election here for you to canvass votes with your "politician-style" speeches.

[lordstanher]

Could you tell me why you have deleted my Post? This Forum allowed people to discuss freely in the past. You have no problem in posting the promotion of Aryan/sanskrit culture. You forgot 98% Indians are Dravidians, and they have every right to question Aryan/sanskrit culture. I noticed this Forum has become a mouth piece of Brahminists and it is a shame. The same people who live in America enjoy every right of free speech but they want to deny the same right to vast majoprity of Indian Dravidians. I hope Dravidianists reject this policy and demand for equal Access. Today you deny our rights, and remember tomorrow your rights will be denied.

(*yawn*) sad, uninteresting, frustrated post.....!

[Raghu]

ISHA is a Sanskrit words , in Thamizh it became, Ishwar, hence Mahaishwar,Paramishwar.

There is a type of yoga called, 'Isha Yoga', has any one got any information about this please?, has any one practised it?

thanks

[Alana]

Here is the link
http://www.ishayoga.org/home/default.asp

[Raghu]

Alana,

Thanks for the Link, I have been watching this Swamiji's program on 'AasthaTV' channel 828 on Sky Digital, he is an amazing Philosopher, great atma, he knows exactly what he is talking about, I can sit all day and just mesmerise my self by listening to this Swamiji

[lordstanher]

May I know the exact definition of a Hatha Yogi??

I was told by a friend at the RKM here tat it means neone who has mastered Yoga.......is this true?? :?

[Alana]

Alana,

Thanks for the Link, I have been watching this Swamiji's program on 'AasthaTV' channel 828 on Sky Digital, he is an amazing Philosopher, great atma, he knows exactly what he is talking about, I can sit all day and just mesmerise my self by listening to this Swamiji
You are welcome :)
I have to admin that i am not familiar with his teaching, but will take a closer look at this link later.

[Idiappam]

ISHA is a Sanskrit words , in Thamizh it became, Ishwar, hence Mahaishwar,Paramishwar.

It is the other way round! 'Isa' is Tamil!

[honey bee]

Isa (عيسى `Īsā), often seen as Isa, son of Mary (`Īsā ibn Miryam) is the Islamic name for Jesus,...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isa

[Raghu]

[tscii:6e2a276543]
Isa (عيسى `Īs�), often seen as Isa, son of Mary (`Īs� ibn Miryam) is the Islamic name for Jesus,...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isa,

Isa , the word originated from regions surrounding the persian gulf/middle east, this was the place sanskrit originated from, sanskrit , there were no christianity or Islam around that time![/tscii:6e2a276543]

[madhuk]

-irrelevant post removed-

[Raghu]

madhuk

What are you trying to say here, tell me pls?


..... you have ONLY Parameshwar in a meditation pose, have you ever seen any other GODS in Hinduism like Lord Vishnu, Lord Muruga, Lord Ganesha, Godess Parvathi ina meditation yogic pose?? no is it not?

Hindusim or Saivasim says everything is Ishwar, everything leads to Isha

[madhuk]

I agree 100%.

[abbydoss1969]

ISHA is a Sanskrit words , in Thamizh it became, Ishwar, hence Mahaishwar,Paramishwar.

There is a type of yoga called, 'Isha Yoga', has any one got any information about this please?, has any one practised it?

thanks

There is no special type of yoga called "Isha Yoga".It is just cult promoted by someone along the lines of basic yoga tenets ,located somewhere near coimbatore.
The best text for yoga is "Light on Yoga". by BKS Iyengar.


Try this link;http://www.bksiyengar.com

[mahadevan]

Hey if yoga is vedic, why there is no reference to yoga in the vedas or in manu smiriti, when the latter even talked about how/when to have bath, why it did not talk about something as important as yoga. They just did not understand what was practiced

[pradheep]

Dear Mahadevan
You are seeking DNA (genetics) information in Economics books. Same way you are seeking yoga information in Manu smriti , which talks about laws. Please dont bring this aryan and dravidian. Just talk about humanity. Enough about wars on these issues.

Shiva is in yoga posture and not others, because each gods represents (symbolize) different aspects. it has nothing to do with aryan dravidan. I will explain soon.

[Idiappam]

Pradheep..

There is nothing there in any Sanskritic works that talks much of yoga.. Yoga is written by Thirumoolar first around 3rd Cent CE - in Tamil. He has written extensively on Yoga. Read his Thirumantiram.

Patanjali's yoga sastras - in Sanskrit, contains only 165 lines with an average of just 5 words per line. It is just a brief mention of Yoga - nothing more.

Thirumoolar (according to legend) was the chief disciple of Nandithevar, a Tamil. Nandithevar had 8 disiciples and Patanjali, a Tamil was one of them.

PS. Nandithevar was a perfectly human looking man.. Don't mix him up with Siva's bull.

[pradheep]

Agreed Idiappam
But why do you bring the aryan dravidan fight in a topic of misunderstanding yoga in west.
Then regarding patanjali's few words and lines does not demean the value of it , like that of tirukkural.

[abbydoss1969]

Hey if yoga is vedic, why there is no reference to yoga in the vedas or in manu smiriti, when the latter even talked about how/when to have bath, why it did not talk about something as important as yoga. They just did not understand what was practiced

I never said Yoga is vedic. All I said that book was the best book available on yoga.
I can't find any books in tamil written by tamil except one by Prof. Andiappan (of sun tv fame).He also brings out a tamil monthly "YOGA KALAI".

[abbydoss1969]

By the way, Prof Andiappan says in his books, that an asana called Vibhareedhi karani is available only in tamil books.This asana is closely related to Sarvangasana.Any one knows anything about it.

[Fire111999]

i'm interested in doing yoga. i have been to some yoga lessons but the instructor was not able to teach us breathing techniques which form a major part of yoga, from what i have heard. and so i stopped going for his yoga lessons. and now, i'm in the uk and i don't know how to continue. could someone pls suggest some good site which can teach me yoga?

thanks.