Swami Agnivesh

[hehehewalrus]

Outspoken, fearless and looking for change, this dynamic swami champions the oppressed in the spirit of Swami Dayananda Saraswati
Swami Agnivesh became a successful professor of business and law in his early twenties, despite being born into poverty. At the age of 28, he dedicated his life to India's masses and became a sannyasin in the tradition of the Arya Samaj, founded by Dayananda Saraswati. Hinduism Today's publisher, Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami, had a congenial meeting with Swami Agnivesh during the Millennium Peace Summit of Religious and Spiritual Leaders conducted at the United Nations in August, and Swami later visited Subramuniyaswami in Hawaii.


http://www.hinduismtoday.com/archives/2001/3-4/14_swami_agnivesh.shtml

[hehehewalrus]

Temples of the Holy Become Coffers for the Greedy
http://www.ipsnews.net/africa/interna.asp?idnews=26415


NEW DELHI, Nov 24 (IPS) - The recent arrest of a highly influential Hindu cleric - regarded as Hinduism's Pope - on murder charges has exposed the huge wealth amassed by India's temples, religious institutions and shrines.

Adherents of the right-wing, pro-Hindu, Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) believe that religious institutions and their heads should be allowed to function free of interference from the government. But others are demanding that temple books should be open to state auditors because the country has secularism as the cornerstone of its constitution.

Members of the Communist Party of India (CPI), a partner in the Congress-led secular coalition that defeated the BJP in the May elections, have been particularly vocal in demanding that the vast sums of money donated by the devout to the various religious 'charities' be accounted for.

The cleric, Jayendra Saraswathi, was arrested on Nov. 11 by police in the southern state of Tamil Nadu on allegations that he ordered the gruesome murder in September of his temple accountant. The dead former employee, Sankararaman, was a strong critic of the religious leader and he threatened to expose Saraswathi's diversion of some five billion dollars from the temple's coffers.

Saraswathi is the 'Shankaracharya' of Kanchi and heads one of the five seats of Hinduism in India. He also leads the Kanchi Shankara Mutt, an influential religious establishment.

In the meantime, Saraswathi's arrest has also turned deeply contentious with top leaders of the BJP including former prime minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee launching a nation- wide agitation on Sunday to secure his release from custody.

But there are those who believe that no one, no matter how high, should be above the law. And the charismatic Tamil Nadu Chief Minister J. Jayalalithaa is one of them - a co- star and political heir of the late actor and politician M.G. Ramachandran.

Ramachandran built a lasting image for himself as a champion of the poor and downtrodden through his movie performances during the 60s and 70s.

But the 'Shankaracharya' has been quick to rally his supporters to condemn Jayalalithaa, accusing her of plotting to seize the wealth of his super-rich Kamakoti Peetham temple foundation.

But the chief minister denied she had ulterior motives and told the Tamil Nadu Legislative Assembly that she just wanted justice to be done in the Sankararaman murder case.

The fact of the matter is that institutions such as the Kamkoti Peetham not only attract vast sums of money but also bring in offerings in the form of gold ornaments and, at times, land endowments bequeathed by the faithful for answered prayers.

However, very little of this wealth trickles down to the millions of hungry Indians or the fund-starved education and health sectors.

''Hindus do not have the same idea of charity as do Muslims and Christians and would rather give to temples and religious institutions than donate to improve the lot of the poor,'' Yogendra Singh, one of India's leading sociologists told IPS.

One man who wants to see greater transparency and social accountability on the part of money-spinning temples and shrines is Swami Agnivesh.

Agnivesh dons the saffron robes of a 'sannyasi' or Hindu renunciate, and is attached to the Arya Samaj order. But he is internationally known for his work in helping stamp out bonded labour.

''There is no account for the billions of dollars that ordinary people pour into religious institutions and the only gauge of the funds at their disposal is the luxurious lifestyles maintained by people who pose as priests and godmen,'' said Agnivesh.

The 'Shankaracharya', now cooling his heels in the dismal dinginess of an Indian provincial Indian jail, was known travel around the country in chartered planes.

But such wantonness could change if the CPI and other like-minded political parties are able to push through legislation that would enable the channeling of temple funds into socially useful programmes for the poor.

''Money that is coming in the name of God, is good only if it is spent on the poor, but not otherwise,'' said Gurudas Dasgupta, a member of the CPI and leading trade union activist who, for one, would like to see a law that gives the government access some of the loot lying unproductive in temple vaults.

About the only temple in India that publicly accounts for its wealth is the Tirupati shrine in southern Andhra Pradesh which is controlled by the Tirumala Tirupati Devasthanams trust with an income of 150 million U.S. dollars a year making it the second wealthiest religious body in the world after the Vatican.

But less than 20 percent of the Tirumala trust income goes into social and charitable activities according to a study called 'For God's Sake - Religious Charity and Social Development in India', done by the Indian Centre for Philanthropy.

Recently the trust approached the government with a peculiar problem.

The famous hilltop shrine had accumulated 8,000 kilograms of gold jewellery encrusted with precious and semi-precious stones placed at the foot of the idols and wanted permission to dispose off the treasure.

Normally, the trust collects daily at least 10 kilograms of gold, from the temple, placed at the shrine of Venkateshwara -- the deity that presides over Tirupati. It then melts it down into special 22-carat medallions to be sold as souvenirs.

But the law under which the trust was constituted does not allow sale of studded gold jewellery.

According to Agnivesh what is truly deplorable is the fact that not only the government but also people who contribute to the great wealth of religious shrines have no say in how their money is to be spent.

One man who dared ask questions, Sankararaman, was hacked to death in broad daylight by hired assassins within the premises of a temple in Kanchi town, with the killers later confessing to police that they were paid to do the job by a Hindu cleric known as the 'Shankaracharya'. (END/2004)

[Querida]

thank you for those informative article and summary Hehehewalrus...really you have done me a great service but also have put me in a quandary from your first ever topic posted....my periamma and family are all very strong believers in Sai Baba....and they are going to india to see him....I am very very close to them...and find myself unable to say a word...especially to my dear brother...i do not want to lose them because of this...they know i do not believe...and believe to an extent that i am westernized...and oddly still hold onto eastern's better values....but nevertheless when it comes down to me and faith...i somehow know that i will lose out...anyways keep up your posts they are always worthwhile to read.... :D

[hehehewalrus]

Querida,
let them watch the videos and decide for themselves. Unless they do that they wont believe you even if u tell a 1000 times.

BTW a friend of mine who is a sai devotee(and sez she likes me though i dont have the same feelings!) said "no comments" on being shown the videos and refused to talk about it. that makes me feel she is twice as dumb :D

[geno]

Excellent Work Walrus! :)

My salutes to you dude! :)

Actually i was thinking of posting a sensational news item - regarding Swami Agnivesh's observations - on the arrest of Jayendra and the subsequent events - in the "Shankaracharya arrested in Kanjipuram" thread. But - i dont see it anywhere :? :?

I'll share it here! :)

Swami Agnivesh, the president of World federation of arya samaj - told some sensational stuff - about Jayendra - tonight on NDTV 24 x 7 news channel.

He said that - once he had queried Jayendra regarding - what he thought about "Untouchability" and the varnasramadharma.....

.....did jayendra think that they are integral to hindhu dharma or can be discarded? - Agnivesh quipped it seems.

To which Jayendra had asserted - that indeed untouchability and Varnasramadharma are "Hindu" dharmas and he wouldnt oppose them!!!.

And all these saffronite spin-doctors were shouting from their roof-tops that "Jayendra" was a representative of "hindus"!!!

It now seems he was representing only the "interests" of a minority section among the hindu community!!!

Now these saffronites have to come out and honestly answer the charges of am impeccable "Hindu Sanyasin" like Swami Agnivesh against Jayendra!

Swami Agnivesh - also went on to question :

1. Why sankara mutt does not have any Girl/female students? why women are not taught vEdAs? why still these archaic notions about thewoman?

2. Why non-brahmins are not taught in vEda pAta sAlAs of sankara mutt? why all that we see is brahmin boys around sankara mutt?

3. Why does not jayendra immediately resign after all these allegations? - he must IMMEDIATELY step down for the sake of the institution rather than compromising the institution for the individual

4. Why are the Other 4 (Original!) sankaracharyas - keeping mum on this issue?

5. Why should the sangh parivar say this arrest is an assault on hinduism when an individual is arrested? how can they equate a single individual with a great religion such as hinduism?

Swami Agnivesh also exhorted that "Criminalisation of Religion" - should be debated nation-wide openly - and that sanyasins who indulge in mafia politicking must be reprimanded!..

Answer Swami Agnivesh saffronites!

Every one now must have realised a "section" of Hindu community is simply trying to ordain itself as the "representatives" of Hindusim!!

The time has now come for that conspiratorial facade to be decisively exposed :)

[Sandeep]

1. Why sankara mutt does not have any Girl/female students? why women are not taught vEdAs? why still these archaic notions about thewoman?

- It is mutts prerogative. mutt doesnt use government money so we cannt force our will on them. Only people who fund the mutt can question it and they are not doing it

2. Why non-brahmins are not taught in vEda pAta sAlAs of sankara mutt? why all that we see is brahmin boys around sankara mutt?

-Same as above

3. Why does not jayendra immediately resign after all these allegations? - he must IMMEDIATELY step down for the sake of the institution rather than compromising the institution for the individual

- He should have. He was wrong not to do it.

4. Why are the Other 4 (Original!) sankaracharyas - keeping mum on this issue?

- They may not want to be involved in politics. After all it has become quiet political now.

5. Why should the sangh parivar say this arrest is an assault on hinduism when an individual is arrested? how can they equate a single individual with a great religion such as hinduism?

- Sangh parivar is wrong in doing this.

[geno]

1. Why sankara mutt does not have any Girl/female students? why women are not taught vEdAs? why still these archaic notions about thewoman?

- It is mutts prerogative. mutt doesnt use government money so we cannt force our will on them. Only people who fund the mutt can question it and they are not doing it

2. Why non-brahmins are not taught in vEda pAta sAlAs of sankara mutt? why all that we see is brahmin boys around sankara mutt?

-Same as above

Well i dont get this prerogative stuff!

The questioning arises since the mutt in question goes to town about how it is the "Representative" of Hindus - which means all sections of Hindus and not any particluar section.

So you mean to say - that Sankara mutt receives donations and patronage only from brahmins?

Of late, it has morphed into a political power center - coinciding with the rise of the sangh politics in india thru late 80s and early 90s till now.

And "Adhi sankara" is supposed to have created this mutt to "integrate" the various "philosophical" and "theological" schools of "hinduism"(?) - according to the sankara proponenets.

So, they are answerable to all the hindu people and not just to a particluar section.

I presume that since you are a Malayali from Kerala - you may not know thenitty-gritty details about the history and functions of the Kanchi mutt.

Anyway - the core contention of Swami Agnivesh - is very relevant and valid - and it is unfortunate if that is sought to be swept under the carpet of "prerogative" which is non-existent to the mutt.

The mutt is answerable to the general hindu populace - as it is not any private organisation.

And the mutt indeed comes under the HR & CE acts, and in case of extreme situations there are well-laid laws - the mutt can be guided by principles as set by the govt. laws.

And above all, the mutt has to function under indian constitution and laws - and any act which encourages, patronises or glorifies - "Untouchability" is a punishable crime under Indian laws!

It is better to keep that in mind! :lol: :lol:

[Querida]

dumb is a bit harsh :D ....but yeah if she likes you then she should at least gone to the extent of sharing her reaction...whatever it was... :?

[Sandeep]

So you mean to say - that Sankara mutt receives donations and patronage only from brahmins?


The donators (brahmin or non-brahmin) can influence the mutt. If they dont agree with the mutt they should stop supporting the mutt. Which they are not doing.



So, they are answerable to all the hindu people and not just to a particluar section.


Only thing a Hindu can do is decide whether to follow the mutt or not. If mutt doesnt answer to a Hindus he should not support them thats all.



And the mutt indeed comes under the HR & CE acts, and in case of extreme situations there are well-laid laws - the mutt can be guided by principles as set by the govt. laws.

And above all, the mutt has to function under indian constitution and laws - and any act which encourages, patronises or glorifies - "Untouchability" is a punishable crime under Indian laws!


Agreed, but you too will agree there is enough loop holes in these laws. For instance every individual has right to say "dont touch me" as long as he doesnt use caste reference. Untouchability is followed in every temple(at least in kerala) most of which are run by govt (Congress and Maxist).

[geno]

Agreed, but you too will agree there is enough loop holes in these laws. For instance every individual has right to say "dont touch me" as long as he doesnt use caste reference. Untouchability is followed in every temple(at least in kerala) most of which are run by govt (Congress and Maxist).

Sandeep,

In thamizhnaadu, no temple can openly propagate "untouchability" and if they do that - lakhs of periyarists would immediately launch an agitation and hold meetings in front of thos temples and pressurise the erring persons to reform or deter from "daring" to propagate untouchability.

But yes, there is untouchability in some of the practices of the temples - like only brahmins are allowed to go into sanctum sanctorum of some temples, and some temples can have only brahmins as priests - like that.

But TN is very unlike kerala - in that we have "Tamed the fox" to a large extent!

But still, the central point is - anyone who is a Hindu can question the Sankara mutt if it discriminates against him/her, since the funds of Sankara mutt are not in the private domain - it is open to public scrutiny.

And if it s found that the practices, customs, funds and activities of the sankara mutt - are heavily discriminatory against non-brahmins, the government CAN intervene and even take over - the running of the mutt.

No private or public organisation - can take umbrage in "vEdAs" or "vEdAntAs" - to propagate blatant myths, and indulge in ANTI-CONSTITUTIONAL acts of discrimination and untouchability.

If they arrogate themselves to that kind of notion, then perhaps what happened in Vaikom under Periyar would happen in kanchi! :)

[indian_tamil]

Geno,

This is what Rajeev Srinivasan has to say about 'great' periyar and vaikom. Read it and weep.

=================================
'Dravidian' mythology
November 24

Whenever I hear of 'Dravidians' I am reminded of their sainted leader EV Ramaswamy Naicker. He is known, among his other epithets, as 'Vaikom Veerar', meaning the 'hero of Vaikom'. This refers to the Vaikom Satyagraha in 1924 in Kerala. This was to demand the right for 'lower caste' people to use the public paths around the Vaikom Mahadeva temple. This was the seminal struggle that led to the 1936 Temple Entry Proclamation that opened all temples in Travancore to all Hindus.

The implication is that Naicker was one of the heros of the Vaikom Satyagraha, if not the main man.

However, in point of fact, he came, he saw, and he was ignored. Nobody paid the slightest attention to Naicker. He was a complete nobody as far as the Vaikom Satyagraha is concerned.

Yet, according to Tamil mythmakers, he was a hero.

And how do I know this? It's because family members of mine were among the leaders of the agitation. They were the ones who were arrested, beaten up, whose bones were broken.

Naicker could be renamed 'Vaikom Visitor' or 'Vaikom Tourist' and it would be more correct.

[hehehewalrus]

here are the amusing articles of Rajeev Srinivasan

http://us.rediff.com/news/sri_oct02_mar03.htm

[Surya]

Seer's female 'accomplice' surfaces


"I am a cancer patient and a devotee of the Shankaracharya. He used to regularly bless me. Yes he used to talk to me on the phone but that was only in nature of consolation. I am not absconding and am going to surrender before the police," she said.

Full @

http://www.ndtv.com/template/template.asp?template=Seerarrest&slug=Seer%27s+female+%27accomplice%27+surfaces&id=15770&callid=0&category=National


Regards.
8)

[hehehewalrus]

http://home.hetnet.nl/~comments_on/_the_secret_swami/Joshi.htm

Watch M.M Joshi threaten BBC journalist not to annoy a minister - video
http://home.hetnet.nl/~comments_on/_the_secret_swami/Joshi.htm

[Querida]

, You say, I say, I say, I say, the fumpa (unintelligible) No NO NO!
You… you don't er eeb er meaning of an of an inter interviewing a minister of my capacity, aa a minister a minister in my, of my stature?

Fumpa...ok that was made up...fumpa? Who says that? :? :P
anyways to be fair....they clearly were biased and were not taking him seriously from the very beginning....all i can say is that he should be practicing that important meditation that he was bound to learn from being so religiously involved...then maybe he would calm down! Also nervousness is known to cause hiccups...

[Sandeep]

Sandeep,

In thamizhnaadu, no temple can openly propagate "untouchability" and if they do that - lakhs of periyarists would immediately launch an agitation and hold meetings in front of thos temples and pressurise the erring persons to reform or deter from "daring" to propagate untouchability.

But yes, there is untouchability in some of the practices of the temples - like only brahmins are allowed to go into sanctum sanctorum of some temples, and some temples can have only brahmins as priests - like that.



In kerala also untouchability is limited to sanctum sanctorum and priests in 'duty'. But again in kerala now a days brahmins are generaly poor (most by nature and many by finance).



But still, the central point is - anyone who is a Hindu can question the Sankara mutt if it discriminates against him/her, since the funds of Sankara mutt are not in the private domain - it is open to public scrutiny.

All that depends on how shankara mutt is registered. Let me deviate a little and talk about BCCI. They said they are not under the government, that Indian players are playing only for BCCI and not for India. Why no action was taken against them. There is discrimination based or language in BCCI, there is corruption, there is treason against country. But why no action taken.

By the way do antheists (who by birth may be hindu but not by belief) have right to question the mutt :twisted:

Then constituition also doesnt allow discrimination based on religion so can muslims and christians also question the mutt.



And if it s found that the practices, customs, funds and activities of the sankara mutt - are heavily discriminatory against non-brahmins, the government CAN intervene and even take over - the running of the mutt.


And we know the condision of religous and cultural organizations taken over by government. That was what i ment when i said there is untouchability in kerala temple which are all run by the government (either communist or christians).



If they arrogate themselves to that kind of notion, then perhaps what happened in Vaikom under Periyar would happen in kanchi! :)
I disagree with the "under Periyar" part of vaikom satyagraha but let us not deviate from the main topic :)

[indian_tamil]

I am not the one making claims about "vaikom tourist" aka EVR. I am just a messenger. It is Rajiv Srinivasan. The question is what
should I choose between you and RS. So keep ur idiotic analogy to
yourself.

If you are so well informed about history, why don't you dispute it
with RS. I am sure he can take it up well.

Can't really blame you. Decades of brainwashing 'dravida' brain by
Periyarist has left you with nothing between your ears.

And BTW Rajiv Srinivasan belongs to a low caste. Of his own hard
work and intelligence he made it to IIT Chennai and Stanford Univ.
Something very few (if at all) dravidans are capable of without
reservation. All they end up is at Anna Univ and that too with 70% reservation.

[indian_tamil]

That Rajiv Srinivasan is a well read and informed person (something which is an anathema to our brahmin hating crowd
in this forum) can be judged by this article:-
http://www.rediff.com/news/2004/apr/21rajeev.htm

Of course he sounds opioniated. But then who isn't. Are we suppose to believe that periyarist of this forum are the most
objective people.

[hehehewalrus]

The question is what should I choose between you and RS. So keep ur idiotic analogy to
yourself.

The analogy was nothing but an simple result of your idiotic statement. So whose the idiot here?? :lol:


If you are so well informed about history, why don't you dispute it with RS. I am sure he can take it up well.


Does "well informed" include any imbecile who makes nobrainer statements like "Hinduism is the most apolitical of religions, with an extremely clear separation of church and state. This has always been the case historically." ?? what kind of dork spouts such nonsense?


And BTW Rajiv Srinivasan belongs to a low caste. Of his own hard work and intelligence he made it to IIT Chennai and Stanford Univ.

Who told you IIT or Stanford teaches Indian history? :lol: :lol: :lol:
A Stanford MBA in marketing only makes you a spin doctor - nothing more. Besides Sumit Sarkar, Romila Thapar or KN Panikker are much better than some dubious guy with a tech degree talking about history!! :D
Can you list the honorary awards won by RS for historical research? :lol: :lol: :lol:



Something very few (if at all) dravidans are capable of without
reservation. All they end up is at Anna Univ and that too with 70% reservation.

Are you such a retard you cant follow the times? Do you know that this year out of the 395 medical seats meant for Forward Community, only 30 of them were genuine forwards as 365 of the other backward communities pushed them out of open competition quota? Read and weep http://www.hindu.com/2004/08/23/stories/2004082308900400.htm

And I compete in open competition myself. which is why I want to settle in Bangalore rather than reservationist TN :)

[hehehewalrus]

One of the marks of a good writer is to let the reader judge for himself and not shove own's views down his throat. Thats called objective journalism.

Having a 100 goons shout his praises from the rooftops doesnt make one a good writer - his work speaks for himself. Of course the naive and ignorant dimwits will dance to his tunes :lol: :lol:

[geno]

In kerala also untouchability is limited to sanctum sanctorum and priests in 'duty'. But again in kerala now a days brahmins are generaly poor (most by nature and many by finance).

Yeah! sure! "untouchability" in "Kerala" isn't as bad as it used to be a century or 2 ago isnt it? :wink:

I know the percentage of christians, Muslims and more importantly 'Communists" in Kerala - and how it is directly related to the "reformed" society in Kerala! :lol:



All that depends on how shankara mutt is registered.............


You are again and again exposing your limited grasp of this subject and im sorry to be blunt about this.

"Adhi Sankara" is "claimed" to have "united" - the six different theological / philosophical schools of thought - which were in vogue, during his lifetime (there are conflicting views on even the adhi sankara's time period).

He established 4 "peet"s in 4 different corners of Idian region. They are Dwaraka, Kedarnath, puri and sringeri. ( Kanchi is NOT accepted as a "original" and "authentic" "peet" established by adhi sankara - by the other 4 sankara mutts )

The entire "edifice" of the "Sankaracharya mutts" exist - ONLY based upon their "representative" nature of the "Hindu" religion (atleast in theory - it is altogether a different issue that Ramanujacharya's srivaishnavaites and Madhwacharya's theological school completely differ and oppose Sankara's "advaitic" view of the world and god )

SO, the "Sankara mutt" exists purely on the basis of its "claim" to the hindu representative legacy!

If it's functions, character and activities - are against this "inclusivity" - then that entire "claim" comes down with a thud and it loses all its legitamacy to even exist.

This is exactly what "spiritualists" like Swami Agnivesh point out and contend. And probably you may not be aware of the fact that other sankaracharyas do not share most of the "claimed" status of the kanchi mutt.



By the way do antheists (who by birth may be hindu but not by belief) have right to question the mutt :twisted:

My Answer #1:

On the same basis upon which an american "desi" - who doesn't seem to have any good grasp of india's history - upon pointing out of which - "snaps" and accuses someone of being a "traitor" and "unpatriotic" - and stuff like that! :P

My Answer #2:

On the same basis by which a non-tamil, and a person with limited knowledge on thamizhnadu's socio-political-cultural milieu - comes to a discussion - with shallow thoughts - but which requires a deep understanding of these issues!! :P

My Answer #3:

You don't seem to understand the whole situation sandeep.

Jayendra alias Subramaniam Iyer has always been an anti-thamizh vedic stooge.

Being "smArta brahmanas" the kanchi mutt "sanyasins" - shouldn't even talk about - Saivite or vaishnavaite issues.

But JayendrA constantly debased "thamizh" as "neesa mozhi" and "Shudra mozhi" ("mozhi" -> language )

He was vigorously opposing the "thamizh" vazhipAttu muRai( conducting poojAs thru thamizh sacred texts) in tamilnadu temples - declaring that " God does not know thamizh" et al!!

"Thamizh" is india's primary classical language - and here we have a smArta brahmin priest - debasing and condemning thamizh as shudhra language "not fit for" conducting poojAs using thamizh sacred texts! :evil:

As "smArta brahmin" he is not even fit to talk about "Saivaism" - leave alone interfering in Saivaite temple affairs and injecting his anti-thamizh poison thru his "sanskrit supremacist" theories. :evil:

Do you know that according to 'Saivaism' and "Vaishnavaism" - that "Advaitins" are "infidels" and "atheists"?????!!! :lol: :lol:

"Advaitins" keep saying some clever word-play like mAyA & one-without-a-second (non-dualism) - which simply translates that - there is no separate God and all that we "see" and "feel" and "think" are the same things, which are bound by illusion or maya - and if the maya goes we "understand" that there is nothing other than a singularity.

Saivaism clearly demarcates "pasu"(the soul) , "pathi"(the universal creator) and "paasam" (worldly things and pleasures and the brith cycle).

According to "Saivaite" theory - "advaitam" is atheism and nothing but blasphemy!.

The soul is created "by" god - and it is not "god" itself - according to Saivaite theology!

Sri Vaishnavaite tradition (Vishishtadvaita - qualified non-dualism) - has always existed AGAINST the advaitic tradition - and even today Advaitins - and more especially the "smArta brahmanas" of the Kanchi mutt type - are considered "inferior" by the vishishtAdvaitins..... ditto madwachari followers et al !! :lol: :lol:

This is deeply "theoretical" and "philosophical" - and may be you are not aware of these things!. :P

This Jayendra not only "tress-passed" the Saivaite traditions - but also the Vaishnavaite traditions.

Last year - at the behest of Jayendra - a 1000 pillar mandap - which was believed to have been built by Ramanujacharya himself - in tirupathi temple - was demolished - inspite of the fact that the Vaishnavaite Jeeyars(The high-priest of VishistAdwaitha philosophy) vehemently opposed this rogue interference of Jayendra.

You can find a lot of vaishnavaites still angrily resenting this dastardly act by Jayendra - of "trampling" upon Vaishnavaite issues, in which he as a "smArta brahmana" has no locus standi.

Thus Jayendra :

* trampled upon the sanctity of thamizh language and debased it.

* constantly tress-passed into saivaite and vaishnavaite traditions which he as "smarta brahmana" has no rights to even talk about

* Acted as "Rajaguru" of BJP and teh Sangh parivar outfits - by which he lost his "immunity" even as a "non-partisan" sanyasin

* Worse, dabbled frequently into tamilnadu's political issues - speaking out of turn like some medieval period "all powerful" Pope of "Hindu" religion - which he was clearly not.

All these and more - resulted in making "Sankara mutt" a mafia politicking "partisan" brahmanical institution - which needed to be shown its place firmly - by the thamizh society :)




I disagree with the "under Periyar" part of vaikom satyagraha but let us not deviate from the main topic :)

You tell me your version of it then!

Are you refuting the fact - that Periyar led an important struggle against the despicable condition in which dalits and shudras were treated?

Are you refuting the fact - that he was jailed for his struggle in vaikom?

Are you refuting the fact - that thiruvithaangoor brahmins did conduct yagnas - so that Periyar should die in prison itself???

Are you refuting the fact - that instead of "killing" periyar - the "bhoothams" from the yagna conducted by the brahmins instead "killed" - "thirumEni" - the king of thiruvithaangoor? :wink: :lol:

Are you refuting the fact - that it was only because of periyar's adamancy in not accepting any "compromise" solutions (for which gandhiji was in favor of) - that - that struggle resulted in a huge reform in the society??

I dont deny that Vaikom struggle was led by various people - but please dont try to eclipse out periyar's signal contribution to that movement. :)

[krishnan]

I am really confused in this entire episode though my suspicious needle points slightly against JS for now. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty. Having said that I am still unable to get answers for the following

1. Would the govt have taken action against JS without any solid proof?

2. Is it possible to level so much allegations against an individual (Murder, Money, Sex and what not) without any proof?

My logical answers for 1 & 2. Definitely not. It's highly impossible considering the clout, power & position that the accused enjoyed. So I bet the govt's side has something beyond the fabricated witnesses.

At the same time, I still think that there is personal vengeance in attempt to finish off the Kanchi Seer once for all. I am suspicious of the following act at the government side too.

1. Why only JS is being targeted?. Vijayendra Saraswati, his brother Raghu and others close to him are not even questioned. Why this bias? Shankararaman has written a lot about them too in his letters.

2. Couple of witnesses had already complained of torture.

3. Prosecution yet to prove JS confessed. When I said yet to prove it's about submitting the evidence in front of magistrate. It's important since JS contradicts the confession episode.

4. How authentic is Anuradha Ramanan's story (or) fact or whatever. The reason is Jayalalitha has dubious record of making people talk to suit her motives. Remember Manorama Vs Rajinikant??

Hope I haven't confused others by blabbering about my confusions.

[krishnan]

Panchayathu president-ukku undanna sila kotpadugal

Knowledge.

Panchayathoda satta thittangala pathi nalla therinji vechirukanum. Like in this forum not to abuse others personally, maintain decency, Giving judgements / arguments against the posting and not against the contributer etc., Idhellam kelvipatirukeengala??

Accuracy.

Panchayathu president-a irukkonum-na you should be dedicated to make correct decisions.

Fairness.

Panchayathu presidentu eppavumae oru sidu-ka pesakodathu. Adhathan impartiality-nu solluvanga. Nalla PP'nga eppavumae mozhi, jathi, thozil, affiliation-ellam vechu katchi karan madiri pesakoodathu.

Trustworthy.

Irandu pakka katchi karangalum avar mela nambikkai vechirukkangangaradhu PP-kalukku puriyonnum.



Good Listeners.

Modhalla sambandha patta anaithu katchi karangalum eppadi pesaranga-ngaradha gavanikkanum. Yaaravathu tappu senjanganna panchayathu presidentu vudanae avangalukku andha thappa nalla vidhama puriya vekkonum, adhavittutu asinga asingama katha koodathu.

[Sandeep]

Yeah! sure! "untouchability" in "Kerala" isn't as bad as it used to be a century or 2 ago isnt it?

I know the percentage of christians, Muslims and more importantly 'Communists" in Kerala - and how it is directly related to the "reformed" society in Kerala!


I agree with you completely. Vivekananda called kerala a "mad asylum" because of untuochability and even unseeability(i dont know what the right word would be). I have great respect for communist leaders like EMS and Nayanar and their contribusion. But not the current leadership or followers



You are again and again exposing your limited grasp of this subject and im sorry to be blunt about this.


I admit that I am not as knowlegeble as you are and thanks a lot to you for sharing your vast knowledge.



My Answer #1:

On the same basis upon which an american "desi" - who doesn't seem to have any good grasp of india's history - upon pointing out of which - "snaps" and accuses someone of being a "traitor" and "unpatriotic" - and stuff like that!


I am one of that "desi" working an align land, saving what ever I can and sending it back to India (90%). A big portion of which goes to the hands of the government (30% of 90% I send). I am not going anything great but dont make fun. If someone makes fun of and acuse freedom fighters of India I will call them "traitor" and "unpatriotic" and I do believe they are "traitor" and "unpatriotic".



My Answer #2:

On the same basis by which a non-tamil, and a person with limited knowledge on thamizhnadu's socio-political-cultural milieu - comes to a discussion - with shallow thoughts - but which requires a deep understanding of these issues!!


Do you believein freedom of speech. Your signature quatation is not in accordance to the way you reply to people who dont agree with you.



My Answer #3:

You don't seem to understand the whole situation sandeep.

Jayendra alias Subramaniam Iyer has always been an anti-thamizh vedic stooge


So you hate Jayandra because he is anti-tamil. Fare enough. I think that may also be the reason why many tamilians in the forum seem to be too eager (not even patient to wait for court ruling) to show down not just Shankaracharia but even the mutt. Far enough






Whenever I reply to your post I reply to all that you have written. But you always skip parts of what you dont have answer to. My question still stays "do antheists (who by birth may be hindu but not by belief) have right to question the mutt. Constituition also does not allow discrimination based on religion so can muslims and christians also question the mutt."

[hehehewalrus]

I am really confused in this entire episode though my suspicious needle points slightly against JS for now.


I too am confused but for a different issue.
If JS really confessed on video, why would he time and again deny it? Because it would then be a simple matter to produce the video in court and get him into bigger mess of denying the charges.

[geno]

Sandeep,

>> Whenever I reply to your post I reply to all that you have written. But you always skip parts of what you dont have answer to. My question still stays "do antheists (who by birth may be hindu but not by belief) have right to question the mutt. Constituition also does not allow discrimination based on religion so can muslims and christians also question the mutt." >>

I have clearly answered your question in my previous exhaustive post.

You seem to be the one who "skips" certain parts of my posts! :)

I have clearly stated - that "sankara mutt" which "claims" to be "inclusivist" and built on "Universality of a religion" - is neither "inclusive" nor "universal' - it is just a "power center" for the "networking" of a particular group of people.

It has acted in partisan ways and trampled upon other institutions and schools of thoughts and even debased the language of the state where it is situated.

The situation now is that the mutt -is clearly embroiled in huge controversies, conflicts, anti-social activities etc. - that the genral society has been warranted to respond to such a situation.

i though you lack understanding of the issues related; but i begin to wonder if there is anything deeper might be involved.

You seem to be absolutely blind to all the valid observations of Swami Agnivesh and other allegations levelled against the Jayendra and the mutt - in court by the govt. of TN.

And you have again shown that you are clearly uncomfortable with the knowledgeable discussion - on the "Idealogy" and "philosophy" on which the whole issue should be viewed at.

And finally, if "smArta brahmins" can be arrogant enough to trample upon Saivaite and Vaishnavaite and the thamizh linguistic domains - then they should expect a "fitting" reply by the thamizh society, which includes - Saivaites, Vaishnavaites and atheists.

So - We rationalists have every right to engage Jayendra and his smarta brahmana mutt - in order to protect our ethnicity and culture.

P.S :

What do you think of T.M Varghese, George Joseph, Muhammad Abdur Rahiman et al - who participated and championed the "Vaikom Struggle"???? :P

Didn't they have the "right" to have participated in that struggle too?!!! :lol: :lol:

Historical FACT :

That's exactly where Gandhiji DIFFERED from Periyar.

Gandhi was "uncomfortable" that "christians & muslims" are participating in the struggle - for the emancipation of "harijans" - whereas - the malayali intellectuals of the struggle & Periyar - were firmly behind those great men! :)

[geno]

Sandeep!

You say:

>> If someone makes fun of and acuse freedom fighters of India I will call them "traitor" and "unpatriotic" and I do believe they are "traitor" and "unpatriotic". >>

And then you say :

>> So you hate Jayandra because he is anti-tamil >>

And then you go on to proclaim :

>> Do you believein freedom of speech >>

Have some consistency dude! :)

Try to analyse & understand that within a single post - you have utterly contradicted yourselves in ever subsequent statements! :)

And please be informed that calling thamizh "neesa mozhi" and "shudhra mozhi" isn't something about an "opinion".

It's even more despicable than that "unapproachable and unseeable and untouchable" atrocities of yore which happened in your state.

What next sandeep?!!

"You hate hitler coz he killed some jews some 6 decades ago?!! how ridiculous!!"

aint it?!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[krishnan]

I am really confused in this entire episode though my suspicious needle points slightly against JS for now.


I too am confused but for a different issue.
If JS really confessed on video, why would he time and again deny it? Because it would then be a simple matter to produce the video in court and get him into bigger mess of denying the charges.

My point exactly. That's the reason I am not buying the 'Confession' theory unless the video is produced in court.

[Sandeep]

What do you think of T.M Varghese, George Joseph, Muhammad Abdur Rahiman et al - who participated and championed the "Vaikom Struggle"????

Didn't they have the "right" to have participated in that struggle too?!!!

Historical FACT :

That's exactly where Gandhiji DIFFERED from Periyar.

Gandhi was "uncomfortable" that "christians & muslims" are participating in the struggle - for the emancipation of "harijans" - whereas - the malayali intellectuals of the struggle & Periyar - were firmly behind those great men!


Ok so in your opinion christians, muslims and antheist can interfere in Hindu religionous organizations. Thanks for replying to my question.

[geno]

4. How authentic is Anuradha Ramanan's story (or) fact or whatever. The reason is Jayalalitha has dubious record of making people talk to suit her motives. Remember Manorama Vs Rajinikant??

Hope I haven't confused others by blabbering about my confusions.

Krishnan,

Anuradha ramanan's accusations do have valid proof. Since this event happened in 1991-92 - there are alots of sources which independently confirm - that suddenly Anuradha ramanan was attacked by "some one" and was hospitalised with partial paralysis.

There are sources which confirm - that she was indeed invited to the mutt by Jayendra for the starting of a magazine - and many meetings did happen.

It is also said that - after that incident & subsequent hospitalisation of anuradha - Jayendra developed cold feet - and sent a messenger bearing his letter expressing regret to Anuradha.

It seems that letter was only "shown" and not given to anuradha. BUT - that messenger from the mutt - shrewdly took photocopies of that letter returning the original. It is also reported that - that person used that photocopies of that "regret letter" written by hand by jayendra to "soft blackmail" him and get money!!

Police may have traced this letter from that person!

And indeed, anuradha serialised this incident in one of the magazines - in 1993 itself - using subtle hints and not direct names - (which can be verified) - and was abruptly stopped due to Jayendras pressure tactics.

The public spat & sparring between Anurahda & that woman who took her to jayendra - on that fateful day when she was "molested" by jaendra - was witnessed by some people in the mutt itself.

They may be willing to talk! :)

The fact of the matter is - Jayendra's sexual escapades - are pouring out by the minute now - since affected parties - are emboldened now to depose against him.

The list talks of actresses (old & recent) and even female doctors - as rumored by many tamil magazines.

[krishnan]

Also by mentioning JS confessed prosecution might've expected that other people hiding might come out in public.

Only the J's(JS and Jaya) knows

[Sandeep]

Sandeep!

You say:

>> If someone makes fun of and acuse freedom fighters of India I will call them "traitor" and "unpatriotic" and I do believe they are "traitor" and "unpatriotic". >>

And then you say :

>> So you hate Jayandra because he is anti-tamil >>

And then you go on to proclaim :

>> Do you believein freedom of speech >>

Have some consistency dude! :)

Try to analyse & understand that within a single post - you have utterly contradicted yourselves in ever subsequent statements! :)



I tried analysing but you know I am dump guy. Not at all clever like you. So couldnt find the contradiction.

And you skiped again. I said <<So you hate Jayandra because he is anti-tamil. Fare enough.>> You very cleverly removed "Fare enough" :roll:

[davie]

i have one mallu brahmin friend who is still close. Eventhough he sometimes opens his mouth to say about his caste, most ofthe time he feels what is the use of belonging to upper caste.
We dont have to amplify these stuff. Common people in india are not much into these issues except very few idiots. I guess india will goin the right directionif the political parties become less religious

[geno]

>> You say Muslims, Christians and even antheist have right to interfere in Hindu religious matters but a Hindu from niebhouring state cannot. >>

Your "Hindu right-wing" anger is well-documented here! :lol:

Tell me sandeep :

1. Do you understand the historical "conglomerate" of the "Hindu" theologies?

2. Do you have even basic knowledge of Saivaism, Saktham, Vaishnavism, koumaram, Ganapathiyam and vaidheegam?

Can you tell me what these comprise of - and why these are relevant? :)

3. Can a Smarta brahmana interfere into A Saivaite or Vaishnavaite traditions?

4. Can anyone leave alone a smarta brahmana debase "thamizh" as "neesha" and "shudhra" language "unfit for using in temple poojas" - and that too living inside thamizhnadu??

5. Why have you not dealt with the exclusivist brahmanical tendencies of the "sankara mutt" inspite of the fact that - this thread Swami Agnivesh was about the pertinent q's that Agnivesh rasied?

6. Are you after all - a Namboodiri brahmin mallu - Masquerading as a "non-brahmin"?? :lol:

Online forum are for people who can comprehend Sandeep!

I have delved into the very core and the deepest issues concerning this issue!!

I have answered all your queries with completeness!!

But your poor lack of knowledge about - Idealogies and theologies have left you dumb and blind with incapacitate anger!

Look at you!! you are "angry" coz your "upper casteist" Blood cannot take the truth!

Try to "Read" what i have written before parroting the same thing all over again - making yourself a picture of fun! :lol:

[Sandeep]

I have long back agreed that I am dump. After all look at my avatar dont I look dumb. :lol:

I am what I am and dont intend to masquerade. But by asking about my caste are you not the one who is castist. I have never been interested in knowing anybodies caste.

You are madly castist.

[krishnan]

geno wrote:

"There are sources which confirm - that she was indeed invited to the mutt by Jayendra ..........."
"It is also said that - after that incident & subsequent hospitalisation of anuradha ................"
"It seems that letter was only "shown" and not given to anuradha........ "
"Police may have traced this letter from that person......."

All your above postings are still a fiction. Phrases like "There are sources which confirm...", "It seems that the letter was only shown...","Police may have traced...."(While a letter existed or not itself is debatable police "may" have traced is still fictious) etc., only add more to the fiction. When you are trying to argue for / against something you need solid proof or reasonable arguments dude. "May", "Might", "seems" etc., will not work.

The public spat & sparring between Anurahda & that woman who took her to jayendra - on that fateful day when she was "molested" by jaendra - was witnessed by some people in the mutt itself.
They may be willing to talk! :)

Again an assumption. And it looks like even before the court's verdit you are pronouncing one here. I don't have any problem with people taking sides on issues. But I would appreciate if it's based on facts rather than fiction.


Bottomline is make reasonable assumptions. Your assumptions still may be right, but dosen't sound reasonable for me. So I will continue to remain confused till it's proven :lol: :lol:

[geno]

Krishnan,

i merely reproduced media reports and assumptions based upon them.

You are right! In due legal procedure, Jayendra may still get acquitted from Sankarraman murder case.

But think of this:

not only the sankar raman case,

* attempt to murder case of Radhakrishnan

* attempt to murder case relating to archakar madhavan

* the new case of sexual assault by Anuradha Ramanan

* Swindling mutt funds (on the basis of Srirangam Usha's testimonials, and other evidences)

* Sexual mis-conduct in the mutt

* Old cases like the death of Subhashree of Kadaya nallur in one of Kanchi mutt's hostel, and death of 2 namboodiri brahmin boys from kerala which happened in 1985

There is a HUGE web of cases which have already been registered or - are on the anvil - against Jayendra :)

I believe - the JJ govt. intends to hold jayendra in a vice like grip for some time to come!

But personally - I still think [deleted] some damage control - and save atleast Jayendra from prison term (if at all he's awarded one at the end of a trial!)

Anyway - Jayendra's credibility as a sanyasin has already been destroyed.

IF Jayendra is REALLY not gulty of sexual mis-conduct - he should immediately slap a defamation suit against Anuradha Ramanan - (he should have done it already if he wasnt gulty! :P )

madiyila kaNam irunthAl thAnE vazhiyil bayam irukkum! :)

[deleted]

[NOV]

Please follow some decorum and have some respect for fellow-posters, if you want this thread to continue.

And guys, please dont generalise and bash groups of people or religion. We see this as nothing but provocation.

[geno]

The deafening silence - of the "believers" - over the valid and pertinent observations of Swami Agnivesh makes me wonder!

Why is that absolutely none - even thought about acknowledging or grappling with his thoughts on this issue?

Sometimes silence says a lot more than million words.

[Querida]

you really are making headway in gettin this thread shut down aren't you indian_tamil

[Sandeep]

I didnt know about this Swami Agnivesh so was doing some reading on him for somedays now. His thoughts from what I read are interesting.

It is great of him to say "The caste-based system in Hindu society today is the worst thing that any society could have." It is this kind of open mindedness that makes Hinduism great. We need to have the courage to accept the bad things in us and correct it.

But i dont agree to his saying "The Vedas are the divine words of God and were not created by man." I am sure it was written by humans only, and i dont think even Vedas claim itself to be word of god.

But I need to read a lot more about him. So if you guys have some thing about him please do post.

[davie]

The next century will have lot more issues with racism except in certiain countries like the USA.
India will have lots of problems with casteism and we guys (veera maravar kulam) will be brave enough to achieve our goals

[Ghlli]

"Welcome Girls, Welcome boys, Iniya Ulagam Ungal Choice. No tension, no BP, Enathu Kolgai Be happy!" - by Our Ghilli. Ilayathalapathi.
My fellow Ghillies! Why stress ourselves about this politics stuff. We're given this life to enjoy. So just enjoy, and stop worrying about politics. The world will take care of itself. You just take care of yourself and have fun! :D

[Ghlli]

Advise konjam ovara irunthuchu na sorry machas.

[Ghlli]

:shock:
My fellow Ghillies! Thanks for listening to my advise. :D

Bye Mamu.

[geno]

History capsule : {as claimed by "vedic" scholars}

The four pontiffs who headed "peeth" ("Seat of learning") with research and specialisation in vedas as established by Aadi Sankara were:

Padmapada in Dwaraka for Atharva Veda,
Hasthamalaka in Puri for Rigveda,
Sureswara in Sringeri for Yajurveda and
Totaka in Badrinath for Samaveda.

Each peeth was specific to one of the four Mahavakyas:

Aham Bramhasmi,
Prajnanam Brahma,
Tathvam Asi,
Ayamathma Brahma

- and one of the four Purusharthas:

Dharma, Artha, Kama, Moksha.

Aadi Sankara chose Mandana Mishra (who changed his name to Sureswara), whom he vanquished in a debate, to head Sringeri mutt in the south.

The kanchi mutt was NOT established by Adhi Shankara - even according to the vedic scholars and peetathipathis in those 4 mutts in Sringeri, dwaraka, puri, and Badrinath.


Current News :

The Dwarakapeeth Sankaracharya, (one of the original Shankaracharyas) Swaroopanand, today asked the Kanchi Sankaracharya, Jayendra Saraswathi, to step down from his post until proved innocent.

"The Acharya must step down from the post of Sankaracharya of Kanchi Kamakoti Mutt until he is absolved by the court of the charges against him in the Sankararaman murder case''


http://www.hindu.com/2004/12/03/stories/2004120314081100.htm


It seems that Swami Agnivesh's wise counsel has begun to prevail upon some people! :D

[geno]

More Current News:

Jagatguru Shankaracharya of the 'Prayag Peeth' - Swami Madhvanand Saraswati said on Friday that Kanchi seer Jayendra Saraswati should abdicate his 'position' until proved innocent in the alleged Shankararaman murder case.

''Jayendraji should leave the post for the sake of its inherent maryada and let his successor take over until the law proves him 'not guilty'.

.......................................

The maryada of the post was more important than the Shankaracharya as a person himself. By sticking to it, its reputation is being unduly soiled. Dharma is more important than the dharmacharaya, he said. ''He should prove himself innocent.''

........................................

The swami also said if the Kanchi seer was guilty the law should take its course and punishment meted out to him.

''For a crime like murder the guilty should be hanged and as a religious head the - Shankaracharya should be hanged thrice."

http://www.newindpress.com/news.asp?ID=IEL20041119045252

:lol:

[Bad Boy]

Indian holy man falls into Lankan police honey trap

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1136788,00050002.htm

Who overtakes who? Christianity or Hinduism?

[hehehewalrus]

Balamuralikrishna refuses to accept Jayendra award:

http://www.chennaionline.com/colnews/newsitem.asp?NEWSID=%7B31110889%2DDDED%2D4AD3%2D89 4B%2D000D539FE482%7D&CATEGORYNAME=Tamil+Nadu

Very nice and polite person, he has clearly shown religion and duty should never be mixed. It will create unnecessary impression who's side he is taking. Good to know he is waiting for the truth.

[geno]

A related item to my earlier info on History of "Sankara peeths".

A lot of "vedic scholars" have agreed on the timeline of middle 8th century ACE (that is A.D) - for Adi Sankara, as a legitimate period of Adi sankara's life & teachings.

The kanchi mutt has been orchestrating an exorbitant claim of a legacy of 2500 years!! for its existence - which has been vehemently denied and denounced - by all the 4 original sankara peeths in puri, sringeri, dwaraka and kedarnath.

The tamilnadu brahmins - that too only a sect of Smarta brahmanas are interested i propagating this lie it is being said by the followers of other 4 peeths.

It is said that - as late as in 1821 only - the Kanchi mutt was established to function as a branch of the Sringeri peeth - and that too because of the "lobbying" of Kumbakonam and tanjore brahmins - who wanted to have a "organisation" of their own - to re-establish and project themselves as supreme group of "hindu" dharma - probabaly for the eyes of british.

It is significant to note - that "Peeth" is what Adi Sankara originally established( or claimed to have established) and "mutt" is just a organisation to co-ordinate the functions of a peeth.

Kanchi mutt wasn't even considered a proper mutt - until the previous Sankaracharya - Paramacharya CHandra sekarendra saraswathi came to be the mutt chief.

He is said to have clearly deviated from being a "branch" of Sringeri peeth - and since he wanted to be a "jagath guru" himself - he sought to "project" all the non-existent history about Kanchi thru propaganda.

All these are articulated not by "non-believers" but by Advaitins who follow other sankaracharyas - like the Sringeri mutt.

A related thread on this issue :

http://forumhub.com/tnhistory/21589.04.28.03.html

Some court judgements on this historical fact :


"It is not disputed that the religious reformer Shankar about the eighth century A.D. established four mutts or monasteries for sanyasis and ascetics in the north, south, east and west of India namely the Jyotir Mutt in Badrinath in the Himalayas, the Sringeri Mutt in south India, the Sharada Mutt, Dwaraka in Gujarat and the Goverdana Mutt at Puri in Cuttack."


- High Court, Mumbai - 33 Bombay 278.



"The scriptures which govern the fundamental doctrines and orgin of four mutts are known as matamnaya"


- High Court, Patna - 1936



"Sankara established four maths as seats of religion at four ends of India. the Sringeri mutt on the Sringeri hills in the south; the Sharada mutt on the Dwaraka in the west; the Badrinath mutt at Badrinath in the North and the Goverdana mutt at Puri in the East ...Each of the mutts has a sanyasi as its head who bears the title of Sankaracharya in general. Sankara is said to have four principal disciples who were all brahmins. The orthodox Hindu - { read brahmins } recognises no other sanysis."


-Supreme Court - 1972

http://forumhub.com/indhistory/22433.11.21.53.html

[geno]

Another web article which talks about the basic history & nature of the Kanchi Sankara mut, and exposes - how jayendra sought to bulldoze upon other Faiths & traditions such as Vaishnavaite and Saivaite traditions - by projecting himself as some kind of pope to "Hinduism"

http://www.thinnai.com/pl0325044.html

This is part of www.thinnai.com and the article is in thamizh ( i guess the font would auto-download or else the homepage of thinnai.com has the link to download the font needed )

[Sandeep]

Is it a 'Curse or Cross'?

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshowwog/959778.cms

Note : I believe from what I read that seer is guilty and if that is true I pray to god that he be punished.