Ramanujacharya - The great Philosopher and Social Reformer [Archive]

Sudhaama

3rd November 2005, 08:54 AM

Shall we exchange our thoughts about Sri Ramanujacharya..

The great Philosopher and Social reformer.....

Born and brought up at Sri Perumbudhur... Just few hours drive from Chennai....

Was instrumental in developing Vaishnavism

Long before, he broke the ills of casteism....

Treated all with equal respect....

Looking forward to more and more information about him and his philosophy on VISHISTADVAITHAM...

Thanks for initiating a Good Topic .... many are unaware of.

What is meant by these words... "Was instrumental in developing Vaishnavism"

First of all ... What is Vaishnavism or Vaishnavam.?

Then what do you call the Sankaracharyas and Madhwacharyas?

In fact Ramanujas Propogation... is called as "SRI VAISHNAVAM"...

Because the other Two (Sankaracharyas and Madhwacharyas) too are Vaishnavam only but with a slight difference ...

They give importance only to Narayana and not much importance to His Lakshmi-Devi and Bhoomi-devi.

Whereas this so called Sri-Vaishnavam propogated by Alwars and Ramanuja, it is Duplex-form of Worship as Lakshmi-Narayana ... or Thiru-Narayana... on the principle of Purushakaarathvam (worshipping Vishnu through the Mother Lakshmi).

It can be noted in Temples... Ramanujas disciples worship Lakshmi first and then proceed to Vishnu Sannidhi..

Ramanuja was NOT THE FOUNDER OF the NEW PHILOSOPHY OF VISISHTA- ADHWAITHA ... like many are thinking...

... at par with other Founders of Adhwaitha and Dhwaitha.

Sri-Vaishnavam of Aalwars already existed, even before Ramanuja, Sankara and Madhwa Acharyas... since propogated by Alwars and earlier Acharyas like Nathamuni.and Aalawandar.

But the name VISISHTA-ADHWAITHA was carved later by Ramanuja.

The main difference between these three Acharyas is only on the Philosphical aspect... on the Inter-relations between the Creator and Creatures...

... so to say Jeevaathma and Paramaathma.... How they are mutualy related?.. How the Devotee should approach God.?....Each Philosophy is Unique.

While the other Two Acharyas have taken up only two different parts of the Vedic- concepts as relevant to their respective Theories... and left out the rest untouched...

Ramanujas Philosophy is Total on the whole of Vedic- concepts, thus greatly varying with the other two.

Badri

3rd November 2005, 09:13 AM

Well said, Sudhamaa!

And just to add to what Sudhamaa has already explained, Ramanuja's philosophy took into consideration all the normal human desires, aspirations and capabilities. In fact the whole premise of worshipping the Lord through Sri or Thaayar (Mother) itself captures this aspect.

viggop

3rd November 2005, 06:46 PM

Ramanujar is supposed to be avatar of Adi Seshan?

Idiappam

3rd November 2005, 10:31 PM

He is the greatest Spiritual person and the outstanding Philosopher the world has ever seen.

Ok, I will just take your word for it, for the time being! -- But the greater part of the world have not seen him.. What do you say?

Sudhaama

4th November 2005, 02:30 AM

Ramanujar is supposed to be avatar of Adi Seshan?

Yes... Ramanujacharya was the RE-INCARNATION of Adhi-Sesha... which fact came to light not only by such a statement by the then Gjanis lived along with him... but also proved THRICE during his Lifetime.events.

r_kk

4th November 2005, 07:04 AM

Sudhaama

4th November 2005, 08:44 AM

Yes... Ramanujacharya was the RE-INCARNATION of Adhi-Sesha... which fact came to light not only by such a statement by the then Gjanis lived along with him... but also proved THRICE during his Lifetime.events.

Dear Mr Sudhaama,

why you are contradicting yourselfs? Some times you are saying that veda's lead to single universal God but many times you are attaching so many parivaars to god and Devas. Do you believe literal meaning of Adi seshan, Parkadal and reincarnation of Adiseshan too? Why you can't you please discuss history as just history? Why can't we look Ramanujar as simple human being with the wholehearted motive to express the truth he knows to all human irrespective of birth?

Dear Mr r_kk,

It is your opinion... You cannot dictate terms on how the other man should write or approach the matter.... Please note the Thread- Topic Heading......

RAMANUJACHARYA, THE GREAT PHILOSOPHER AND SOCIAL REFORMER.

which invites the Hubbers to think in lines of how that Acharya was Great, his Philosophy, Social- Reform and Biography... indirectly coupled with Tamilian and Indian Culture as well...

... rather a multi-faceted deal in different aspects concerned... as any Hubber want to think, raise question as well as put forth his individual thoughts true to the spirit of any Forum.

This Forum is not meant just to PLEASE or Cater to the individual taste of Mr. r_kk... but to all the Hubbers.

You are welcome to put forth whatever you feel like saying on this Subject... Yes... you have every freedom as much as I or any other Hubber possess... and not beyond, towards ENCROACHING or hitting at others intentionally

. just to hurt and DISCOURAGE OTHERS and for your gaining negative pleasure out of it..

... as also show... how wiser and smarter you are than all others.

Well I accept you as a Very Very Wise person. Is it enough?

Please don't try to change others as your REPLICA... If you have a very poor opinion about me...Well... Please call me a Fool and leave me.

For God's sake please Stop with it... It is clear you are not interested in this subject and then why break your head and others too unnecessarily and PERSISTENTLY?

With Best Wishes,
Sudhaama.

r_kk

4th November 2005, 09:50 AM

Idiappam

4th November 2005, 10:01 AM

Ok, Mr. Sudhamma,
I have no problem in leaving this thread. Please go ahead as you wish. I have lot of interest to hear the Indian history without mythification. Thats all I wanted. I don't have any other motives, which you assume. You have the full right to write for your specific readers. Go ahead.... But please aware that future generations may like to hear more of real past as history and heritage than superstitious stories.

Hello, r_kk,

Here in this history section, when talking about Ramanuja -- all the comment these Sanskrit propagandist can give is -- 'He is great, social refomer" with a spicy splach of myth - " he is the avartar of Adi sesham". Therefore disallowing fools to raise questions about their propaganda.

When what is expected more here would be, some quotes from his works - His life and time - some historical perspective. Ramanuja - is a Dualist - his ideasare very close to that of Siddhantam - though he prefered to call it Vedantam.

I would like to see more facts here than just myths and open-ended statements leading us no-where!

Badri

4th November 2005, 10:17 AM

Idiappam: Kindly understand that your post borders on hurting sentiments of many Hubbers who truly believe what you have denounced as "rubbish".

If you do not subscribe to any of the views expressed in this thread, you are free to not visit this thread. However, hurling irresponsible remarks such as "waste of space", "mad" and "rubbish" is not in order.

I hope you will let other points of view exist, and not solely yours alone.

I request you to kindly revisit your post and edit the offending words.

viggop

4th November 2005, 10:17 AM

Sudhaama Sir
Can you please tell me about the three incidents which prove Ramanujar to be Adi Seshan avathar? I'm very interested.

Sandeep

4th November 2005, 10:37 AM

Sudhaama

4th November 2005, 07:12 PM

Sudhamaji or Viggop

Can you please give a brief history about the life of Ramanujacharya . Like where/when he was born. What was his family? What made him a social reformer.

There are a lot of people like me here who would like to know about the human behind these great names and then their phylosophies start to make sense.

Glad .. Welcome.. To make it more interesting... even for any Commonman... let us proceed in the following approach.

... Salient Features of Ramanuja's Life.:

(1) Ramanuja was born at a Village SRI-PERUMPUDHOOR.. near Chennai.. as Adwaithi.. so called Smartha,,, Sankaracharya's disciple... Parents KESAVA SOMAYAJI and mother KANTHIMATHI... were childless until their intensive prayer to Parthasarathy deity at Thiruvallikkeni was gracefully answered... by the birth of Ramanuja..

(2) His first Guru was an Adhwaithi... YAADHAVA-PRAKASA... with whom Ramanuja resided at home for Gurukula Vaasam... .. at THIRUPPUTKUZHI village ...near Kanchipuram.... and learnt Vedas initial lessons..

(3) Guru Yaadhava-Prakasa in the course of teaching to a batch of students along with Ramanuja... interpreted the meaning of one Sanskrit word...KAPYAASAM ... that God's Eyes are similar to the Red-buttocks of Monkey. Ramanuja shed tears on hearing this cheap Simile. to a Diviinity.. When questioned, Ramanuja put forth the alternate meaning which alone can be applicable in this context... he said

" God's Eyes are similar to the Lotus-flower"..

.. on hearing which the Guru became furious that he was an Adhikaprasangi (Impertinent-goose).. who oversteps beyond the bounds of a student who has to just accept whatever the Guru teaches..

Ramanuja prayed the Guru for clarification on his preaching... which the Guru could not.. Whereas Ramanuja further elaborated on his perception of alternate meaning of the same word. This fact could not be denied by the Guru..

Thus the Teacher felt insulted before other students.. who may spread a bad image on the Scholar-Teacher... while Ramanuja may excel him as a better Scholarly Competitor- Teacher.. in the near future.

So he decided to kill the student Ramanuja, by drowning in the River Ganga... so that the Guru need not become a sinner by killing, while his purpose also can be served...

.. a Crooked sense of justification .for a malefic autocracy.

.. To Continue...

viggop

4th November 2005, 07:41 PM

Sudhaamaji
I thought the reference to monkey's back was made by Adi Sankara and ramanuja's guru just repeated it?

Sudhaama

5th November 2005, 04:38 PM

Sudhaamaji
I thought the reference to monkey's back was made by Adi Sankara and Ramanuja's guru just repeated it?

Yes... Some of the unbiased Philosophical Scholars say so.

Sandeep

7th November 2005, 07:37 AM

Sudhaama

7th November 2005, 09:41 AM

Sudhaamaji
I thought the reference to monkey's back was made by Adi Sankara and Ramanuja's guru just repeated it?

Yes... Some of the unbiased Philosophical Scholars say so.

Interesting wonder how Adi Sankara got away with that.

Does this reflect any difference in their view on God? Adi Sankara showing gods presents in everything good or bad where as young (i assume the thinker in ramanuja is still blosoming at that stage) sees God only in Goods of the world.

No. We should not take it in the angle of Good and Bad. Such an outlook has nothing to do here..

In fact... personally speaking, I do not believe that the Great Adhi Sankaracharya a Divine Awathara would have personally meant such a sickly sense..... Cannot be.

He was such an Invincible Scholar that many of the Controversies, Intricacies and Disputes on multiple Philosophies of the day he could unravel remarkably and solve amicably in a commonly convincing manner..

.. even independantly challenging and vehemently countering the various highly authoritative scholars of other Faiths and Sub- Religious Sects as well as Innumerable varieties of Beliefs ...in those days...

Thus corrected and put an end to several MUCH CONFUSIVE Theories and Philosophies... for a Commonman .of any time.

In his several other texts invariably, Sankaracharya has interpreted the word PANKAJA-LOCHANA another similar word on Vishnu... conveying its CORRECT AND PROPER meaning as Lotus-Eyed Narayana... in the true sense..

And Nowhere he has meant Lord Narayana's Eyes as MARKATAKA- PRISHTA- LOCHANA....(which means Monkey's-buttocks-eyed.)... as ridiculously described the word KAPYAASAM (KAPI + AASAM, Kapi = Monkey; Aasam + Buttocks)

His nuancic interpretations in Sahasranama- Bhashyam, Sankara- Bhashyam, Geetha- Bhashyam and the like,

... picturises his high intellectual GRANDEUR, which cannot stoop down so low to compare the divine Eyes with a dirty Simile... INCREDIBLE.! .

I take it... as the personal view and misinterpretation on his own by the Ramanuja's Guru, Yadhava-Prakasa, although an Adhwaithi disciple of Sankaracharya.

Further I do not relish to elaborate on this Cheap comparason with the Divinity... whoever may be the author concerned.

But I am prepared to describe on the other sense by Ramanuja... a healthy comparison ... if anybody asks for.

viggop

7th November 2005, 10:10 AM

Sudhaama Sir

Can you please tell me about the three incidents which prove Ramanujar to be Adi Seshan avathar? I'm very interested.

mahadevan

7th November 2005, 09:14 PM

Read some where that Ramanujar was against casteism, is that true ? if so what all did he do against it ?

Sudhaama

7th November 2005, 10:11 PM

Read some where that Ramanujar was against casteism, is that true ? if so what all did he do against it ?

Yes... Ramanuja was .. Not only by Religious Renaissance he was a HUMANE- EMANCIPATOR,

...but also he was a Great Social-Reformer too... in those days of high Sentimental, Sectarian, Self-centered, Narrow-minded Society.. in general

... by insisting on SOCIAL-EQUANIMITY irrespective of Castes and Religion..

It was Ramanuja.. who introduced the system of pulling "THAER"...for the Deities by one all the members of the Society...

.. without any PREFERENCE OR DISCRIMINATION... but only on one Common- basis... as DEVOTEES.... and Nothing else or beyond.

Yes... Not only by his Propagation but also by Gestures...He advanced INCREDIBLY too far to institute a THULUKKA- NAACHIYAAR SANNIDHI

... within the precincts of Ranganatha Temple at Srirangam...

.. making a Muslim-princess as the Deity.!.. for worship and Pooja... which continues even now.

Urangaa-Villi-Dhaasan, his disciple of a so called Untouchable caste... was his prime accompanist... on whose shoulders Ramanuja used to rest his hand while walking. behind that Thaazhththappattavar.

Maaranaer-Nambi was another such Untouchable... whom he rendered Personal physical service by Medical- treatment of applying Oitments Thailam etc. with that Guru's own hands... on the body of his Disciple.

... by visiting his Hut... within a Harijan- Cheri.... while that Devotee Bed-patient affected with Cancer was miserably FORSAKEN by all others including his own family members..

Thus Ramanuja ensured a clear-cut depiction of LARGE-HEARTEDNESS as the Rudimentary base of self-imposed Code of Practice..... while dealing with any aspect in Life,...

... Be it ones own varying Religious Faith, or Sect or Caste or Occupation or any such other cases.

UNIVERSAL-LOVE coupled with Human-Unity in Diversity ... was his Highlight Message ...

... as well as the ULTIMATE PROPOGATION to the Global Society.

On which I will elaborate soon, with the support of true events.

mahadevan

7th November 2005, 11:16 PM

Hi sudhaama, that was marvellous for a person during those ages to do that. Please continue...

Badri

8th November 2005, 04:26 AM

Hi sudhaama, that was marvellous for a person during those ages to do that. Please continue...

I think that is a wonderful observation, Mahadevan. For a person to be able to do all this in those ages, and still be accepted and revered speaks volumes of Ramanujacharya. We don't really need stories to prove his greatness!

One of his greatest revolutionary acts was the giving of the Ashtakshara Mantra to everyone. Maybe I am jumping the gun here, perhaps Sudhamaa has already planned to talk about this at the appropriate time, but because the topic veered to this, I thought I might put in a note about that episode here.

After great difficulty, Ramanuja obtained the Ashtakshari Mantra from a guru. The guru gave him the usual strict injunction, "This is the holiest of holy mantras. It is not to be uttered loud in the hearing of everyone. It is sacred and secret. Do not reveal it to anyone. By the mere chanting of this you will be liberated. But beware if you let this mantra out. You will surely go to Hell then."

Now, how sacred and how liberating the mantra itself is, is another question. But what Ramanuja did was noteworthy.

He went up to everyone in the village - people of all castes, age, men and women. He told them all to assemble at the Temple gopuram (tower) for he said he had a great treasure to share with them all. He climbed the tower and in loud, ringing tones, chanted the mantra loud to everyone, and exhorted them to chant it and be liberated.

When the guru came to know about this, he was wrath incarnate and berated Ramanuja for his deed, assuring him he would go to Hell. Note his answer, which made him the great emacipator!

He said, "If by my one person going to hell, all these people could be liberated, so be it. I have lived a worthy life."

I think the attitude of absolute selflessness and the way he wantede equality in everything is truly commendable.

r_kk

8th November 2005, 04:44 AM

We don't really need stories to prove his greatness!

He said, "If by my one person going to hell, all these people could be liberated, so be it. I have lived a worthy life."

I think the attitude of absolute selflessness and the way he wantede equality in everything is truly commendable.

Fantastic post Badri....

Sudhaama

8th November 2005, 07:03 AM

Word "RAHASYA" means "SECRET" ... in Sanskrit?

Ramanuja Clarified

Hi sudhaama, that was marvellous for a person during those ages to do that. Please continue...

I think that is a wonderful observation, Mahadevan. For a person to be able to do all this in those ages, and still be accepted and revered speaks volumes of Ramanujacharya. We don't really need stories to prove his greatness!

One of his greatest revolutionary acts was the giving of the Ashtakshara Mantra to everyone. Maybe I am jumping the gun here, perhaps Sudhamaa has already planned to talk about this at the appropriate time, but because the topic veered to this, I thought I might put in a note about that episode here.

After great difficulty, Ramanuja obtained the Ashtakshari Mantra from a guru. The guru gave him the usual strict injunction, "This is the holiest of holy mantras. It is not to be uttered loud in the hearing of everyone. It is sacred and secret. Do not reveal it to anyone. By the mere chanting of this you will be liberated. But beware if you let this mantra out. You will surely go to Hell then."

Now, how sacred and how liberating the mantra itself is, is another question. But what Ramanuja did was noteworthy.

He went up to everyone in the village - people of all castes, age, men and women. He told them all to assemble at the Temple gopuram (tower) for he said he had a great treasure to share with them all. He climbed the tower and in loud, ringing tones, chanted the mantra loud to everyone, and exhorted them to chant it and be liberated.

When the guru came to know about this, he was wrath incarnate and berated Ramanuja for his deed, assuring him he would go to Hell. Note his answer, which made him the great emacipator!

He said, "If by my one person going to hell, all these people could be liberated, so be it. I have lived a worthy life."

I think the attitude of absolute selflessness and the way he wantede equality in everything is truly commendable.

Many are interpreting this event .... in a different direction from the true MAIN sense behind.

On this episode of misconception, my Article in Tamil ...was published under my name Sudhaama in Shakthi-Vikatan Magazine last year... and is .still available in Online.

In brief I repeat here... the main sense behind..

Ramanuja wanted to learn the descriptive intricacies of a Manthra called Thirumanthra- Artha- Rahasyam (Sense of Ashtaakshra-Manthram : Ohm Namo Narayanaya)

In those days, Thirukkoshtiyoor Nambi was a great Scholar well- knowledged in that Manthra. So Ramanuja approached him and appealed to teach.

... But the Guru did not easily consent. but Ramanuja repeatedly persuaded him by walking hundreds of miles from Srirangam near Tiruchi to Thirukkoshtiyoor near Ramanathapuram... 18 times.

Finally the Guru agreed on a condition that it is a Secret not to be revealed. When Ramanuja raised his doubt on the sense of the word RAHASYA... he was silenced by the Guru, that the Norm for the Student was just to Obey the commands of the Guru and accept whatever is taught.

Ramanuja accepted and learnt... Immediately after learning, he sent out his hundreds of Disciples in the town Thirukkoshtiyoor to gather one and all the Devotees who seek to know that important Manthra sense.

Then Ramanuja climbed over the Thirukkoshtiyoor Temple- Gopuram ... addressed the vast gathering assembled around..

.. and. revealed BY PREACHING what he had just then learnt.

On hearing this surprise development.... the Guru became furious and sent for Ramanuja.

" Hae Ramanuja... Did I not lay down a strict condition... that what I teach you is a SECRET ... not to be revealed? and You agreed upon? Then why did you violate?"

"Swami, I am aware that you will get angry with me. But still I did so because of my Confidence in you that you will be open-minded as well as kind enough to re-consider the Truth whoever speaks of.

...The word "Rahasya" is misinterpreted by others... Swami, You being a Scholar, how you too are falling in line with them, I am unable to understand. ...

...If such a Manthra is deemed to be a SECRET...

...what was the purpose for such an Important one to be made at all?... Just to lie buried within the Brains of a few?

In Tamil only, the Word RAHASYA means Secret.... but in Sanskrit it does not mean so...

.. but only as... GYST / SALIENT / IMPORTANT... conforming to its Dhaathu (Sanskrit-Word- Root).. I feel..... Am I wrong Swami?

Accordingly there are various Sanskrit-Texts named ..

Ananda-Rahasya = Salient and important factors on how to be Happy.

Yoga Rahasya = Gyst of important Yoga- principles.

Arogya-Rahasya = Salient and Important factors on how to be Healthy.

Athma-Thathva Rahasya = Important and Salinet factors on Spiritualism

Similarly... Thiru-Manthraartha-Rahasya =

Salient and Important Factors and Guidance on and about Thirumanthra (Ashtaakshra-Manthra: Ohm Namo Naarayanaaya)

... and nothing beyond to mean as... SECRET... NOT TO BE REVEALED or TAUGHT TO OTHERS..

.. Rather in fact this Manthra is meant to be ..." WIDELY PROPOGATED ...

...quite contrary to the Negative- approach hitherto adopted.

Such a Mis-interpretaion was made by some erstwhile Tamilian-Scholars...

... basing on its parallel meaning in Tamil as SECRET,..

... which is being blindly followed by all others... INCLUDING YOU SWAMI?

So, Does that anamoly not need to be corrected?." asked Ramanuja.

" Well, Ramanuja.... Keeping aside that Logic .. I ask you another point..

...Did you not promise me NOT TO REVEAL? And is this not a Violation? And for such a Violation did I not tell you that you will go to the Worst Hell?"

"Yes.Swami.. I remember. I have least forgotten it even while preaching it to others.. ..

.. But by just myself one soul going to hell... if thousands of innocent common-beings can attain Salvation"

...I am happily willing to accept any worst consequence or punishment as due and as I may so deserve." replied Ramanuja and prostrated at the feet of his Guru Thirukkoshtiyoor Nambi.

Immediately the Guru embraced his student Ramanuja,.. shedding tears, rapt with elation and said..

..." Ah.! Ramanuja, You are NOT AN ORDINARY MAN!. How Great You are.!! Only God can be so LARGE-HEARTED. Are you the EMPERUMAAN ( God.. in Tamil) to think so?

.. I am radically convinced by your justifications on the correct and proper meaning of the word RAHASYA in Sanskrit,

...which was wrongly understood and adopted in practice so far."

Ramanuja replied... "Swami, I am sorry if I have hurt you. I have come here on a Mission. So I have to perform my duty"

From that day... Ramanuja got one more name in the Society as EMPERUMAANAAR (Godly Birth) .

.. as CONFERRED by Thirukkoshtiyoor- Nambi.. one of Ramanuja's Five Gurus., in succession.

viggop

8th November 2005, 10:09 AM

Great! really really great!

Sudhaama

9th November 2005, 02:20 AM

[tscii:0a61af9dce]
RAMANUJA: ADHISESHA-AWATHARA: Proved during Lifetime.

Sudhaama Sir

Can you please tell me about the three incidents which prove Ramanujar to be Adi Seshan avathar? I'm very interested.

Yes .. it was categorically proved so .. Three times... on different occasions as described below.

According to Sasthras, there are Two sorts of Devotional-Service (Kainkarya) to God, named as SESHATHWAM and PAARATHANTHRIYAM

- Direct Service to God is .. “Seshathwam” similar to Lakshmana in Ramayana.

- Carrying out the Commands of God... is Paarathanthriyam .. similar to Bharatha.

Episode: (1 ) God's Voice Declaration.

On one Critical situation .. With a good intention to save his Guru .. Ramanuja’s Sishya Kooraththu-aazhawaar volunteered to introduce himself as Ramanuja and proceeded to the Chozha King .. while the Guru had been away to Kaveri River for bath.

On return when Ramanuja came to know of this pellmell he tried to rush to the King for preventing any harm to his disciple ..But the idea was vehemently opposed and appealed against by his other Sishyas.

Under such a dilemma... Ramanuja prayed Lord Ranganatha deity in his Pooja- room seeking His Advice and Order

Immediately came the Divine-Reply ..in a Roar of Voice of God Ranganatha ..by “Asareeri” (Invisible God’s Voice). .. heard by all others around in the mutt.

“ Hae Ramanuja .. this Ordeal for you is my making. Yes .. I have to forcibly thrust it on you .. because you have dragged me to that extremely reluctant stage

Remember, You Aadhisesha.. what for I gave you an Awathaara as a Man on Earth? .. Just for your serving me at Srirangam?.. You are already serving me at Vaikuntam on Seshathwam. Yet I sent you to Earth.for Paarathanthriyam .. to carry out my Orders of Service on Earth. Whereas in spite of my repeaed insistance, you refused to leave Srirangam because You preferred Seshathwam only.. Whereas I do not. Because your services are more needed URGENTLY elsewhere.

So proceed to Melnaadu (Present Karnataka) forthwith and furtheron to other places as you will get calls on my making. Several Earthly Kainkaryas (Services) are waiting for you. So Rush up.”

“Yes, Swami Ranganatha.. if that be your Ultimate Will, I cannot think against it, but to obey. So I will rush out immediately.as per your orders”

So saying he moved out of Srirangam along with his convoy. (This Episode we will look in detail later.)

But the Message here is... the God’s Voice declaration .. the first authenticity .. that Ramanuja is the Aadhi-Sesha-Awathara.

.. To continue ..
[/tscii:0a61af9dce]

Sudhaama

10th November 2005, 09:45 AM

[tscii:ec60d5496c]
.. RAMANUJA : ADHISESHA-AWATHARA .. . (Continued)

(1) Seshathwam ( SEVAKAM in Tamil) =

Direct Service to God / King / Leader...
(“SEVAKAMUM” yaam paadi Varuththamum theerndhu - Thiruppaavai)

(2) Paarathanthriyam (PARHAI in Tamil =

Indirect Service by Carrying out the Orders of God / King / Leader
(Yitrai-p-“PARHAI” kolhvaan anrhu kaanh Govindha - Thiruppaavai)

Out of all others in Ramayana duly recognised by Rama for their worthy services and so invited to accompany Him to Vaikunta...

.. Only Hanumaan refused to accompany ..

.. while all others gladly accepted Rama’s offer,

.. after that Awathaara was completed and so Hanukman was left behind on Earth.

Hanuman sought to continue on Earth, because he had already tasted the pleasure of SESHATHWAM (Sevakam)

.. but yet wanted to have the pleasure of PAARATHANTHRIYAM (Parhai) also more...

.. which is preferred by his Lord Rama / Narayana .. from any of His devotees ..

.. better than the SEVAKAM (Direct service to Himself.).

Similarly the Lord Narayana wanted His best Service-man Adhisesha too be endowed with the pleasure of the other one sort of service (Kainkarya) .. named Paarathanthriyam also ..

.. by which privelege, Adhisesha too can get the Attainment of PARIPOORNA -DHAASATHWAM ...

.. similar to Hanuman, who has consequently become God, Deity of worship.

Thus God made His best Servant Adhisesha too .. as God Ramanuja ..

.. (Thaan-Aana-Thirumeni).. in the same Body and Shape retained at Srirangam Temple precincts ..

.. being worshipped by his Disciples. .. at Moolavar Ramanuja Sannidhi .. now too

.. a Mystery and Miracle .. that Ramanuja is still alive in the same erstwhile body ..

.. even after about 1000 years of his completion of Awathara.

[/tscii:ec60d5496c]

Sudhaama

11th November 2005, 01:32 AM

[tscii:1dd8be6135]
RAMANUJA: ADHISESHA-AWATHARA: Proved during Lifetime- 2

The Jain-King Pittiraya’s daughter,.. rather the Princess of the then Karnataka region, suddenly became Insane... and continued so without any imrovement for several years, in spite of intensive treatment of all sorts by many Doctors of various Schools of Medical profession available those days.

Then the King tried his best by alternative means too.. .. including the Spiritual remedy by Bhuddhist and Jain monks

Doubting the effect of extraneous Evil-force, reputed Manthrikas were engaged .. but with no fruitful result.

So the King was much worried whether it was incurable for his affectionate daughter, the Teen-ager Princess .. due to be married as the Royal-Heir.

At that stage Ramanuja had reached his Kingdom, leaving off the neighbour Chozha desam.. On the recommendation of his Minister, the Jain King invited Ramanuja to his Palace and appealed for advice.

On seing the Princess, Ramanuja asked “ What is wrong with you?”

“Pat came the reply.. “ Hae Swami Ramanuja the ADHISESHA AWATHARA.. I am the Brahma-Rakshasa eagerly waiting for you the Divine-Soul... Originally I am a Gandharva who became a Rakshasa due to a Curse. So to get along the days, I entered this Girls body... waiting for the day of Liberation.

I am prepared to leave off.. if you can grace me Liberation by just touching my Head with your Foot.. because you are AADHISESHA.. Consequently I will be radically cleansed of all my sins along with the evil effects of the curse on me... and thus I can go back to the Gandharva my original form.

Ramanuja complied with the appeal .. and immediately the Evil-force occupying the Princess body left off. The Young girl got up cheerfully as if she woke up from sleep.

The Devils voice declaring Ramanuja as the ADHISESHA-AWATHARA.. was clearly audible to one and all around including the King.

So not only the King started revering Ramanuja highly but also made his people too. by ordering them to pay the due honour to the Aadhisesha Awathara Ramanuja.
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viggop

11th November 2005, 09:48 AM

I read Ramanujar was forced to leave the Chola kingdom because Cholas were Shaivites and ramanujar practised Vaishnavism.This is from the historical point of view.Please correct me if i'm wrong here

Sudhaama

12th November 2005, 10:19 AM

[tscii:daa4893514]
Vedas preach only UNIVERSAL-LOVE of Unity in Diversity ..NO HATRED

"viggop"

// I read Ramanujar was forced to leave the Chola kingdom because Cholas were Shaivites and ramanujar practised Vaishnavism.This is from the historical point of view.Please correct me if i'm wrong here //

I have already touched this point in my last post along with my specific mention that I will elaborate on that another context later, so that the current feature of Seshawathara of Ramanuja taken up now, do not go astray.

However since asked for, I will take it up now itself before proceeding further on the Seshawathara factor.

The Chozha King then was a Fanatic Saiva, so hating all other faiths that he insisted all his subjects be Saivites only... and so he was in the habit of inviting Non-Saivite Scholars and after a Names-sake Religious forum of Debate with his Saivite Scholars, those aliens were mocked at ridiculed insulted as well as many even punished innocently, and finally forced to be converted as Saivites. His main target used to be the Vaishnavite Scholars, the disciples of Ramanuja.

Many Vedic Scholars of visiting Saivites as well as those of other Sub-faiths (Non-Saivites), tried their best to convince him .. suppported by Vedhic quotations...

.. that Vedhas preach only Universal-Love of Unity in Diversity with the least scope for mutual hatred ..

..and even the Saivam’s main theme is .. “Anbae Sivam”.. and so there is no place in the Vedic-Religion for this sort of Sectarian Wrath or Narrow-minded Compartmentalisation ..

.. within this Divine Subject of Religion of high Moral Values and Spiritualism .. the Large-hearted Humane pursuit.

But all such wise and broadminded Scholarly persuasions went into the deaf years of the Fanatic Ruler.

But one interesting and wonderful phenomena of his surroundings was ..

.. that one of his ministers by name “ Naalooraan” was a staunch Vaishnavite disciple of Ramanuja. He was a Kshathriya by birth, a well-competent Administrator, very much useful personally, highly reliable in important deputationary duties and on the whole .. mostly indispensable for the Raja in his rule.

Once the Chozha King asked his ministers to promulgate an Order that in all the Temples te main deity should be only Siva... and so in the Vishnu temples, those deities at the centre should be replaced by Siva-Lingams and the Vishnu deity should be placed as the Praakaara Deva behind Siva deity.

Immediately his minister Naalooraan interfered
..
“Maharaja, I am not interested to argue .. whether Lord Siva, your God-form is supreme or the Vishnu my God-form. I being comon to all the public, I don’t want to enterv into a controversy and thus hurt any sect or people of various Faiths, since Vedas clearly render freedom to every so called Hindu, the Vedic follower..

.. to deem that One Supreme God either as Siva or Vishnu or Kali or any other God- form .. or even as Shapeless Abstract-power..

.. according to the individual devotee’s Concept, Option and Wish.

.. So let us respect each others faiths and leave at that.” said the Minister.

King got angry and said.. “ Manthiri it is my Order. You must implement it.”

“Maharaja when I say .. the same Vishnu we see is Siva for you .. if you so believe .. what can e your objection I am unable to follow... So to say if you worship the deity Vishnu in our Temples chanting Siva-Sthothram.. the same Vishnu will appear as Siva for that Saivite only.”

The King did not agree ..

Subsequently when the King was on tour of his Kingdom alongwith the Minister Naaloraan .. he saw the Vishnu deity procession in one village.

Immediately the King asked “ Hae Naalooraa you are making fool of me by teaching some humbug stories. Now tell me, if I chant Nama-Sivaaya manthram addressing this Vishnu deity now appearing with Naamam.. will change into Lord Siva.. you mean. Tell me clearly. I will test it. If your such formulae fails, I wil chop of your head for cheating me.”

“Yes Maharaja.. I agree”

Addressing the Vishnu-deity on the procession in front... Raja chanted Siva-manthram for a few minutes closing his eyes ..

Simultaneously his Minister Naalooraan too closed his eyes and prayed to his Guru Ramanuja to prove his word as correct by action.

When both of them opened their eyes after a few minutes, they were wonderstruck. .. to see a miracle.!!

.. Yes the same Vishnu deity was having Viboothi on His forehead in place of Naamam.

The King became spellbound and said.. “Naaloora your words have come true. So let my order to convert Vishnu temples into Siva’s be withdrawn. But let Saivas be allowed to worship at Vishnu temples”

“Yes Maharaja” .. and so it was done.

Raja was with that village deity for about one and half hours, performing the due honours for God.

After his departure, the Viboothi disappeared of its own accord, restoring the original look with Naamam.

On reaching the temple... all chould hear an Asarreri Voice of God “ Let this phenomena be repeated as an annual function every year and let all the people know that Naalooraan’s worsds are EVER-TRUE.

Accordingly in that Vishnu Temple at THIRUKKANNANGUDI in Chozha- Naadu in between Thanjaavoor and Nahgapattinam once a year on that day... even now-a-days

.. the Vishnu deity is worn Viboothi for just one and half hours.. during the specifc festival named “THIRUNEERANI-VIZHA”

However the people used to mock at the King at his back... that the King is able to convert all others including the public.. but not his minister closeby who prominently occupies the high seat of the Minister.. wearing a bright Naamam conspicuously on his forehead .. the symbol of a Vaishnavite... amongst the whole Sabha congregation of Saivites all over.

Neither the Saivite scholars nor the King himself personally could win over that Minister by arguments.. Finally one day the Raja asked ..

“Naaloraa ... what is your objection to become one amongst all of us as Saivite?”

“Look .. all your Vaishnavite Scholars have accepted the Supremacy of Saivam .. and still why you are not getting converted to our fold .. by which you can get several more favours from me

“Maharaja even if thousands of Great Scholars, including Vaishnavites.. accept the Overall supremacy of any other God over my Deity Vishnu and preach me so

.. I will not accept, unless my supreme Guru Ramanuja declares so”

Then the King Kuloothunga Chozhan made a new Secret- plan to bring the minister into his fold ...

What is it ?.. We will look next.

[/tscii:daa4893514]

viggop

12th November 2005, 10:52 AM

Sudhaama

12th November 2005, 11:16 AM

I dont understand this thought that "My God is greater than your God".It is very childish to me.It is this type of thinking which leads to communal riots and costs lot of lives in our country.

How can Kulothunga Cholan say he is a Shaivite if he has so much hate on another God?Having hate in your heart means that no God will accept such person as a devotee.Lord Shiva would NEVER agree to have a devotee who has his heart full of hate and anger.It is an insult to the Lord himself.As a lover of Lord Shiva myself,i totally disagree with such fanatic views.This applies equally well to Vaishnavites too.If you harbour hate in heart, then you are farthest from God.
:-(

Yes. Yes.. Yes.. Applicable to any HUMAN BEING... especialy the so called Devotee of God-faith.

No Religion... the God- pursuit .. advocates HATRED towards other Faiths.

Ramanuja's philosophy is the Alwar's Concept of... UNIVERAL-LOVE. and

.. Unified form of ALL GODS CONFINED WITHIN the HOMOGENEOUS FORM OF ONE GOD ...

.. conforming to one of the Concepts of Vedas and Geetha.

Ramanuja's own Scriptures, Descriptive explanations and Life History..

... EMPHASISE this HIGH TRUTH on approach towards the Peaceful Mankind of Global Unity.

lordstanher

12th November 2005, 12:20 PM

Exactly, Mr. Viggop/Suddhama,
As the unchallengable Swami Vivekananda had said, all religions, following different paths, lead to God, the common supreme....just as all rivers flowing thru different places ultimately end up in the sea!
Gr8 man he was! :D

Sudhaama

26th November 2005, 10:27 AM

[tscii:7c50379922]
.. NAAMAM POATTAAR Ramanujar..?.... means Cheated..??

It has become a Mockery-Saying or a Denigrative Pseudo- Proverb in Tamil .. as “Naamam Poattaan” .. to mean somebody’s cheating .

How did such a perverted sense is meant for the Divine Naamam, the Vaishnavite Symbol of God Naryana’s Holy-feet adorned in Temples and such other holy places as also worn on the Devotees’ forehead.?

On what basis such a denigrative meaning emanated.?

Answer for this Question is in the History of Ramnuja’s initial period of stay at Karnataka.

Created by the then Jains, this Tamil-saying had been imported from Karnataka region to Tamilnadu, after Ramanuja’s revolutionary Emancipations performed invincibly there.

Prior to Ramanuja’s entry there, the erstwhile Hindu King named Vishnuvardhana ruling over Karnataka region then, had been converted as Jain by their Scholars and his name was changed as “Pittiraya”. Following their King, a major part of his subjects also got converted to Jainsm.

Eventualy the Jains established a capital for Jainism at Srvanabelegula near Bangalore and were propogating their Religion all over South-India. in a mass scale converting the Hindus and Budhists as Jains.

In the mean time, the Princess became seriously sick due to possession by an Evil-spirit. After all sorts of their best attempts by Manthreekam and Medicines to cure the Princess became ineffective and futile, Ramanujacharya was approached, who could easily drive out the Brahma-rakshasa (Worst-Devil indwelling the Princess), as detailed hereabove earlier.

Then the King was so well impressed on the Acharya, that he appealed to accept him as the follower. The request was accepted by the Guru and so the King was restored to his previous name of Vishnuvardhana, alongside becoming the disciple of Ramanuja..

Following the King’s example, his people too started realising the Greatness of the Visitor Acharya and also got much convinced by his discourses on Religion & Philosophy coupled with Life-code on Earth in union with the Overall Society. So several Jain Scholars along with their followers too voluntarily started to re-embrace Hinduism as Ramanuja’s disciples en masse.

When the Jain heads at Gujarat and Rajasthan came to know of this sudden upsurge, they got alarmed of and rushed to Karnataka. to prevent further erosion of their Religion there.

They vehemently conducted a malefic propoganda stating as..

.. “ Naamam poattaar Ramanujar .. and thus cheated all of you as well as the King...

.. by means of some Gymmicks, Magics and illusory tricks, for which all of you people innocently succumbed.

Besides they made a hue and cry to the King too... and also challenged Ramanuja to win over them by an indepth logical debate.

Accordingly the debate took place at Sravanabelagola, their Southern- Regional Headquarters. Solitary Ramanuja sat on one side, facing more than a Thousand Jain Religious Scholars on the otherside of the curtain..

Jain-Scholars had come with a nefarious plan, to raise all their volley of Questions, ensuring least gap of time in between, or...

.. simultaneously as well, such that the Acharya could not have adequate time to ponder or deeply think over enough to answer the Intricate and Confusive Interrogations. on high Philosophy.

Since Ramanuja anticipated the cunning plans of his opponents, he insisted to conduct the debate from behind the curtain only.

To the amazement of the whole mass of Jain Scholars, the Replies from a single person Ramanuja pounced back towards the Questioners within a split second...

.. quite apt, as well as stupendously too... as a Simultaneous Roar of multiple voices equal to the number of Questioners..

.. as also different replies in response to various complicate questions on the tough subject of Philosophy.

Consequently the Jain-scholars were left with no other alternative than to accept the Splendid Answers of Ramanuja.

Then Ramanuja took up his turn to question them back... in the same manner i.e. simultaneous multiple-voices addressing the mass of different persons on the opposite side..

They could neither face the persistent onslaughts of Tough Questions, nor could answer them and so became dumbfounded.

By the spur of curiosity, one of their Scholars stealthily peeped through the gap of the curtain and found Adhisesha in place of Ramanuja sitting with his multiple hoods and replying to the simultaneous volley of Questions from the other side of the curtain.

On his passing on the news, several others too ascertained the fact by personal verifications and so furtheron communicated the miraculous truth to their Chief.

The Chief monk asked “ Hae Ramanuja, by the mysterious way of your simultaneous roar of multiple voices of unheard of high Philosophy, we doubt you cannot be the normal mortal but a super-human. May be you are the Adhisesha. Please tell us the Truth. Are you the Adhisesha awathara.?

Pat came the reply from Ramanuja. “See for yourselves”... Suddenly the Curtain was cleared off. And all could see Adhisesha alone sitting there with a Divine Shineglow. After a shortwhile, He appeared back as the cheerful Ramanuja at the same seat..

Rapt with a hgh spirit of fervour, invariably all the Jain Scholars prostrated at the feet of Ramanuja and said,

...“ We agree our Defeat, since you won over us in the debate on our Questions, as well as by making us dumbfounded by your Questions. Above all, we are well-convinced that you are the Super-human God Adhisesha.

So we all surrender and appeal to you to accept us as your disciples, along with our followers al over India as well..

Accordingly Ramanuja converted those mass of Jains as his Hindu- disciples... whoever so volunteered and offered for.

Even now, it can be found at Sravanabelegola of Karnataka an Inscription in the Jayasthambam in Tamil :

“Thiru Ramanujachariar Jainarkalhai Vaadhil Venrha adaiyaalha Jayasthambam”

Thus by means of the above narrated three episodes on diiferent occasions,. it was proved that Ramanujacharya was undoubtedly Adhisesha awathara.

[/tscii:7c50379922]

Sudhaama

25th February 2006, 06:12 PM

Main Differences between the Concepts of RAMANUJACHARYA MADHWACHAYA and SANKARACHARYA.

As far as possible I want to run this Thread as a Commoners Forum.... without going deep into the Philosophical intricacies. So I will superficially touch the points of interest and concern.

The three Acharyas Sankara, Ramanuja and Madhwa differ only on the aspect of Philosophical-concept on MUTUAL-RELATIONS between the Creator-God and the Creations.

Sankara's and Madhwas Philosophies....diametrically opposite in the sense.... named ADHVAITHA(Monism) and DHWAITHA(Dualism) were their own concepts of their personal-perceptions on the Brahma-Soothra (Treatise on Vedas)....

... whereas Ramanuja's Philosophy... named VISISHTADWAITHA.... was not his own concept nor his creation.... since that Philosophy was the only Doctrine already existed right from the days of Vedic-origin.... but became extinct due to heavy and persistent onslaughts of Foreigners invasions.... not only on the Indian Nation but also on their Unique Culture and Heritage too.

The Great Sankaracharya.... the Awathara (Re-incarnation) of Lord Shiva..... had accomplished within just a short period of 16 years... by walking all over India....and rendered an unparallel yeoman service to Humanity especially to Indians... by reviving the Vedic-culture with dynamic approach and voluntary challenges to the relevant Scholars of Budhism and Jainism which Religions only prominently existed then apart from six other Non-Vedic Philosophies.

All such new faiths had overpowered the Vedic-Religion so called Hinduism.

Then the Mahaan Sankaracharya had given life...rather RESURRECTION ... at the right moment.... to the Great Vedic Religion..

...the emulative Human-Life-path so called Hinduism, the Unparallel Gospel of Large-Hearted Universal-Outlook....

...intended to emancipate the Mankind by means of Soul-Realisation coupled with Social-advancement.

If Sankaracharya had not taken the awathaara in India then.... perhaps the present whole India.... would have been chanting Budham Charanam Gachaami.... being Budhists predominantly..... similar to Thailand, Burma, Srilanka and the like...

... and eventually Vedas would have become radically extinct ...

...culminating in the death of the Vedic-Religion, Hinduism in the whole world.

On the foundation laid by Sankaracharya, the next Acharya Ramanuja subsequently built up the further stage of VISISTHA-ADHWAITHA (Qualified Monism)...

...a Via-media Philosophy of VISISHTA-ADHWAITHA.... partly accomodating with both Dhwaitha and Adhwaitha thesis.....

...but ensuring completion and Totality of description on Brahma-Soothra... filling up the gaps left over untouched by the other two Acharyas.

...thus giving life to that pre-existed Doctrine....VISISHTA-ADWAITHA... the Original-concept of Vedas..... even prior to Sankaracharya's birth.

But the Great Sankaracharya had done his best to Humanity....

...what he felt APT and suited to that time..... DIGESTIBLE BY THE THEN-MANKIND

.... To Continue.

viggop

25th February 2006, 06:54 PM

Sudhaama

26th February 2006, 09:00 AM

Dear Sudhaama Sir
Shankaracharya is supposed to be an "extension" of Shiva.He is not a avathar of Lord Shiva.Shiva had chastised him once which made him sing Manisha Panchakam.He was also a normal human being who was blessed by Shiva.He has composed slokas on all Gods/Godesses.He finally merged with shiva lingam, i think.

According to the Biographic versions by the accredited Scholars of Kerala, on Sankaracharya....

... it is asserted categorically that his parents fervently prayed to Lord Shiva at Vadakkunathar temple of Thirussor.....

... who appeared in the mother Aryaamba's dream and stated that He would take birth as her Son. So the child was named as SANKARA.

Special honour to Vadakkunaathar-Shiva at this Temple by other deities as a grand annual celebration named POORAM-FESTIVAL... is mainly on this cause.

The above-said Biographical version is presented in the Malayalam School Text-books too... approved by the Government.

Such is the basic belief amongst his disciples in general, all over the world, as far as I know.

Dear Mr. Viggop, if I am wrong.... please correct me.... by quoting from SANKARA-VIJAYAM... the authentic Biography of the Great Acharya.

viggop

26th February 2006, 11:21 AM

Dear Sudhaama Sir
I have not read "Sankara Vijayam".What I had read was Shiva appeared in his parents dream and gave them a choice.Whether they would like 100 sons or a bright son who will live for a short time.The couple chose a bright son.I do not think that Shiva said he himself would be born as a son for them.In honour of Lord SHiva who granted them a boon, he was named "Shankara"

Shankara has also composed lot of slokas on Lord Shiva.Shiva will not compose slokas on himself! Also, soundaryalahari is supposed to have been certified by Lord SHiva in Kailash itself.
Shiva appeared once before shankara with four dogs representing Vedas and corrected him.Adi shankara got sick and composed "subramanya bhujangam" in praise of Murugan at tiruchendur(or thiruthani).Lord Murugan cured him of it.Hence, from these incidents i think, Shankara was a human being who was an "extension" of Lord Shiva and one who was blessed by the Lord.I do not think Shankara was the Lord himself.
This is just my belief. If you think otherwise, I'm sorry if I had hurt you.

Anyway,let us continue discussion on Ramanujar on this thread.

Sudhaama

27th February 2006, 12:19 PM

Main difference.... between SANKARA, RAMANUJA and MADHWA Acharyas.... Continued - 2

Similar to SANKARA-BHAASHYAM and MADHWA-BHAASHYAM... (Analytical Meaning / Discourse)

...Why Not called RAMANUJA-BHAASHYAM?...Why named SRI-BHAASHYAM?

Vedas say.... the Creator-God is the Omnipotent-Power, so called PARAMAATHMA.... meaning SUPREME-GOD... irrespective of the Name of Diety.

...The powers within the Created-Lives like Humans, Animals, Birds etc..... which conducts them are named as JEEVAATHMAS or CHITH... Abstract-living-power within the bodies... which are under the Overall control of the Paramaathma.

...The lifeless creations of Nature like Stone, Tree, Earth and the like Jata-Vasthu are named... ACHITH.

Both in the Vedas, Upanishads, as well as the Brahma-Soothra.... there exists three different classifications of Terminologies.... found at different locations and contexts... which are grouped under BEDHA-SRUTHI, ABHEDHA-SRUTHI, and GATAKA-SRUTHI.

BEDHA-SRUTHI : The Terminologies .... which convey and depict that both the Paramaathma and Jeevaathma.... are TWO DIFFERENT ENTITIES OR OBJECTS.... but One called Paramaathma, the Creator-cum-Ruler, is the Mightiest and Purest.... while the Other, the Jeevaathma, the Created-life ruled-over is the least powerful but a sub-servient to the other one... Paramaathma.

ABHEDHA SRUTHI : Such Terminologies... which mean both these Abstract-powers are.... one and the same.....even though named different.... The Sense diametrically opposite and Contrary to those of Bedha-Sruthi Terminologies.

GATAKA-SRUTHI : Such Terminologies which mean that both these powers of the Creator and the Creations.... are Inter-dependant... like the Doctor and the Patient, Teacher and the Student, Ruler(King) and the Subject(People).... irrespective of their Opposite Characteristics, Purpose and Needs.

SANKARACHARYA coined his own Philosophy.... named ADHWAITHA.... by selectively choosing ONLY ABHEDHA-SRUTHI Terminologies.... which alone well-suited his Theory... But left-off the other Two Terminologies of Bheda-Sruthi and Gataka-Sruthi... UNTOUCHED.

MADHWACHARYA coined his own Philosophy... named DHWAITHA.... by selectively choosing ONLY BEDHA-SRUTHI Terminologies... which alone well-suited his Opposite-theory.... But left-off the other Two Terminologiesof Abheda-Sruthi and Gataka-Sruthi... UNTOUCHED..... Whereas....

RAMANUJACHARYA .....DID NOT COIN A NEW SELF-MADE THEORY.... but only enlivened the erstwhile existed Vedic-sense in TOTALITY.... named VISHTAADHWAITHA... which name alone he coined.... to differentiate from the other Theory, named Adhwaitha... already brought to vogue, prior to Ramanuja.

So to say....even though in some respects those Terminologies appear to be SELF-CONTRADICTORY... and the implied senses Non-Congruent...

... Ramanuja dealt with all the above-mentioned three different classificated Terminologies....... Leaving NO PARTS UNTOUCHED... unlike other Acharyas....

... and described analytically linking one with the others without any INCONSISTENCY....

... ensuring a Complete- description of TOTALITY ...unlike the other two Acharyas

During those three Acharyas periods.... there existed one SARASWATHI- PEETAM .... a Temple in Kashmir for Goddess Saraswathi ..

.. who used to bestow Dharsana to the true devotees.

On completion of his Bhaashyam (Analytical- meaning and description / Discourse), Sankaracharya placed it under the holy feet of that deity, the "Goddess of Knowledge"...and prayed for Her approval...

... Saraswathi-devi appeared before him and granted Dharsana... named his Bhaashyam as ....SANKARA-BHAASHYAM.

Madhwacharya during his time subsequently as the last.... placed similarly his another Bhaashyam at Her holy feet and sought approval....

... Saraswathi-devi gave Dharsana to him too... and named his Bhaashyam as.... MADHWA-BHAASHYAM.

In between the times of these Two Acharyas.... Ramanujacharya too during his time.... placed his Bhasshyam at Her feet seeking approval.

...Saraswathi-devi appeared and granted the name for the Ramaanuja's Bhaashyam as...

... SRI-BHAASHYAM .... Not Ramanuja-Bhaashyam.... because it is not his own making or a newly founded theory like the other two.... but the Original one.

SRI-BHAASHYAM means.... the Complete-Description.... Total-Sense.... The most Divine-Doctrine.

Since so named and declared by the Saraswathi-Devi herself.... in the presence of Kings and Scholars of that time....

....Even now it continues to be identified and quoted by one and all concerned.... of all the various faiths.... as SRI-BHAASHYAM only

But we must note.... that the name coined by Ramanucharya for that Theory of Totality.... as VISISHTA-ADHWAITHA (Qualified-Monism).... conveys the sense of linking more with that of ADHWAITHA.... than the other one.

Ramanuja was a Born-Adhwaithi.... the erstwhile follower of Adhwaitha, as the Sankaracharya's disciple.... but subsequently converted to the Visishtaadhwaitha School of Doctrine.

Sudhaama

3rd March 2006, 12:07 PM

[tscii:b3e6d42082]
... Guru attempted to cruelly MURDER his Student RAMANUJA

Ramanuja, a born-Adhwaithi being the only child of his father Kesava-Somayaji and the mother Kanthimathi, who were the staunch followers and disciples of Aadhi Sankaracharya. His Native- place is SRIPERUMPUDHUR.

The first Guru (Teacher) for Ramanuja was also an Adhwaithi, Yaadhava-prakasa, with whom Ramanuja underwent the Gurukula-Vaasam at Thirupputkuzhi village near Kanchipuram

We have already seen, how that Guru misinterpreted an important Upanishad-Terminology .. KAPYAASAM... describing the Lord Vishnu’s eyes ..

.. as Similar to MONKEY’S BUTTOCKS ... instead of its correct meaning as... Similar to LOTUS-FLOWER..

.. which fact was highlighted by Ramanuja .. intervening the Guru’s teaching in the class of several pupils.

Similarly on many an occasion, the Student Ramanuja volunteered to correct his Guru’s misinterpretations... resulting in making the Scholar-teacher, a Laughing-stock in the Society.

Consequently the Guru felt not only ashamed, but also got so infuriated and jealous,...

... as also started fearing that the day might not be too far, when the Guru Yaadhavaprakasa might lose his Scholar-honor...

... leading his Seat to be occupied by this Boy-student Ramanuja, overthrowing his Master.... very soon

So he planned to surreptitiously MURDER HIS STUDENT-BOY Ramanuja,by drowning in the holy River-Ganga...

He preferred such a mode of murder... because it was his own personal belief... that the Murderer would not become a Sinner for the Crime, since the victim could gain Moksha by dying in the holy-River Ganga....

...thus rendering good only to both.. by means of such a Murder-plan... TWO GAINS BY MEANS OF JUST ONE ACTION....

... coupled with No-consequence of Sin to the murderer Guru... even though such a cruel-action is deemed by the Society as Crime...

...Radically a False-belief.... all as per his own baseless contentions.

Accordingly he took up a Pilgrimage to Kasi (Benares) along with Ramanuja and his relative Embar.. amongst all his team of students .. all the Boys of tender age of about 7 to 10.

While passing through the forest of Vindhya region, near Nagpur,... Embar stealthily overheard the discussion of the Guru with four of his students, which revealed the nefarious plan of the Master to kill Ramanuja cruelly by drowning in the River Ganga.

Immediately he informed the secret to Ramanuja and advised him to stealthily part-off the Pilgrims-team and return.

Ramanuja a boy of 9 had no other choice than to return and walk solitarily through the dense forest of Narmada region.. in the DARK NIGHT.

Chanting God’s name Narayana Narayana... he proceeded step by step.

In the mean time... Ramanuja's relative Boy, named Embar told the Guru Yadhavaprakasa that Ramanuja was missing and could not be traced out in the dense forest.

On hearing this message, the Guru felt happy that his task of killing his student had become unnecessary...

...since simplified by God's kindness... by getting him killed by some wild animals. ....Then they proceeded onwards to Kasi.

The innocent victim-boy Ramanuja left alone in the dense forest at darkness.. as a stranger, was blinking how and whereto proceed!!!..

... fervently chanted and prayed Lord Narayana to save him from the ordeal.

Suddenly he saw a beam of light.. from a Theevatti (Fire-Torch)... held by a Tribal-Couple.. approaching towards the forsaken lonely boy Ramanuja.

“ Oh Boy, where are you going in this dense forest.. lonely..at midnight?”

“To Kanchipuram.”.. Ramanuja narrated his innocent plight

“I see... We too are proceeding to the same place... Yes, come with us. We will escort you. Because you neither know the route, nor will be able to pass through this dangerous wild-forest.. with your tender feet, being just a boy.

So saying the Tribal-male carried Ramanuja on his shoulders, while his Tribal-wife walked along, entertaining the Boy by singing songs and Lullabies.

On the way .. they took rest beneath a tree. Then the woman said she felt thirsty. Ramanuja got up to fetch water, but not permitted by both of the couple...

The husband said to his wife….“ Oh, where can we get water in this forest at dark midnight.? Be patient.. and take rest awhile.. Soon we will reach Kanchipuram, where you can have the holy-water to appease your thirst.”

Ramanuja shed tears.. feeling much for his inability to carry out his wish to serve the helpful Tribal-couple,... at least as a matter of gratitude.

All of them fell asleep under a tree in that Vindhya-forest at dark midnight.

Suddenly Ramanuja woke up and found... he was lying beside a Well, at the outskirts of Kanchipuram .. and the day had just dawned. The Tribal-couple had left him.

He wondered how he could reach that far-off place within one night.. that too, while he was asleep!..

And also he felt much disappointed to note the stealthy disappearance of the Kind-hearted Tribal-Escorts.... and especially for his inability even to express his gratitude before parting off.

...alongside his failure to keep upto his INDEBTEDNESS and wish of appeasing the thirst of those kind-hearted Tribal- couple...

... who rescued him mysteriously at a critical juncture voluntarily and selflessly.

The Boy Ramanuja took bath at the well.. and rushed to Varadaraja temple to pay his gratitude for promptly answering his prayers.

From Varadharaja deity at the Temple-Sannidhi... a roar of Voice by Asareeri poured out... “Oh Ramanuja,.. It was I, Varadharaja and the Godess Lakshmi, Perundhevi who rushed to you.. in the disguise of Hunter-couple.. when you fervently prayed to us. So you are saved. Be rest assured.. I will take care of you and protect your interests further too.... Have faith in me.”..

With uncontrollable tears.. caught in an inexplicable spirit of elation... Ramanuja said.. “Hae.. Varadharaja, now I understand what you have in mind. You meant that Well whereto you brought me.. INCREDIBLY WITHIN A SHORT TIME..

... contains holy-water, which alone can appease your thirst. So hereafter I will carry water from that SAALAI-KINHARHU daily for your Abhishekam...

..and ... I accept you as my Kula-dheywam Deity for my daily Aradhana(Worship at Home)”as a gesture of my immense gratitude.

Accordingly he made it a daily Routine-practice and divine-convention to personally fetch water from that well... and carry on his shoulders to the temple,... during his stay at Kanchipuram.

Further he arranged to continue that service by his disciples during his outstation tours

Accordingly even now the water from that Saalai-Kinharhu situated at the outskirts of Kanchipuram is fetched daily...

.. for Abhishekam and such other holy needs of the deities Varadharaja and Laksmi Perundhevi...

.. even now from that HOLY WELL, called SAALAI-KINHARHU.

Subsequently, after about 15 years... the same Guru, Yadhava-prakasa repeanted for his follies...and appealed to Ramanuja to accept him as the Disciple which was accepted and implemented.

Thus the Teacher became the Student of his erstwhile Student and Vice-versa...

.. The Scholar-Guru, Yadhava-prakasa became Ramanuja's disciple who was renamed as GOVINDA-JEEYAR.
[/tscii:b3e6d42082]

kalnayak

3rd March 2006, 02:25 PM

Lord S(h)iva is pirappili. Lord Vishnu took avatars but Lord Shiva appears as Lord Shiva only in all his Thiruvilayadal as well as in his interactions with Naayanmargal and other devotees. This was mentioned by some body in one of these threads when Lord Hanuman was told that an avatar of Lord Shiva. Then how can Adhi Sankara be considered as an avatar of Lord Shiva?

santosh108

17th March 2006, 08:19 PM

Australian visistadvaita

http://www.srimatham.com/

Sudhaama

13th April 2006, 11:49 PM

...Adhi Sankaracharya... a SAIVITE?

Lord S(h)iva is pirappili. Lord Vishnu took avatars but Lord Shiva appears as Lord Shiva only in all his Thiruvilayadal as well as in his interactions with Naayanmargal and other devotees. This was mentioned by some body in one of these threads when Lord Hanuman was told that an avatar of Lord Shiva. Then how can Adhi Sankara be considered as an avatar of Lord Shiva?

Veda says even about Lord Narayana ... as .. AJAAYAMAANAHA... means Birthless....

...but further adds.... BAHUDHAA-VIJAAYATHAE.... which means..."yet takes several REBIRTHS as Awathaaras.(Re-incarnations)

But Nowhere it is mentioned in any Puranas or Vedas that the Lord Siva is "Pirhappili".... Vide Thiruvilhaiyaadal-puraanam... where Lord Siva has taken several Disguises and Re-Births... as Fuel-Wood(Virahu)-Seller, Student-Singer etc.

In the Naayanmaars-Charithram... Lord Siva appeared before Thiruneelakantar as a Sivan-Adiyaar and played a drama with a Earthen-Begging-bowl... You know.

However if at all any God-form.... either Vishnu or Siva or Muruha and other Gods... is attributed as PIRAPPILI anywhere... it has to be positively understood in a HIGH-SENSE...as....

... NON-COMMITTED FOR REBIRTH... due to Karmas of past births... like the Humans and other Creatures..

...Yet took Rebirth to make people understand them better, by means of His/Her actions on the field....

In the case of Lord Sankaracharya.... there are two sorts of Faiths amongst his Disciples...

(1) He was just a Holy-Soul...unlinked to any Gods Rebirth....but a Staunch Vishnu-devotee....

...who created a New Philosophy of Adhwaitha....So, being a Vaishnavite.. he was wearing on his forehead. and all over his body... CHANDHANA-PUNDRAM (Symbol of Vaishnavite).... and chanting constantly Narayana-Nama-Japam....

...as also ordained Vishnu-supremacy in all the Kerala Temples... be it a Siva or Ambal or any such other deity...

...stipulating to chant "Amme Narayana in Bhagawathi Temples or Acha-Narayana in Siva-temples

..Such a faith is mostly amongst Namboodris ... so called his Birth-communioty people.. They have their own justifications to fortify such a belief....

Even in Kaladi... where the Acharyas Samadhi exists... and is worshipped by his devotees....only Chandana-Pundram is worn to Sankaracharya deity... as a Vaishnavite.... and Not Viboothi(Saivite-sign).

(2) Another faith amongst a section of his devotees... especially the Peetaadhipathis at Kanchi, Sringeri etc.... including a part of the Kerala people....it is believed...

... that the Aadhi-Sankaracharya was the Awathara of Lord Siva, Vadakkunathar- Swami at Thirussor Temple.... by whose benign grace to his parents, the Acharya was bestowed as the Remarkable Human of divine Re-birth. of Lord-Siva....

...so, being REINCARNATION OF LORD SIVA... his Idols at some places, including Kanchi and Sringeri- Peetam Temples... Viboothi is worn... as well as by themselves his disciples as Saivites.

I have nothing to argue Pro or Anti... other than putting forth here... the various sects' (All of them, his Disciples only) personal beliefs of reverence.... towards the Great Sankara- Acharya.

However the most interesting point to be observed here is....

...While as per SRI-BASHYAM of Acharya Ramanuja... the supreme God is denoted by him mostly as just EESWARA(Which word is common to all the forms of Gods... including Siva and Vishnu) ... even though by the word Eeswara, he means Lord Narayana only.

...Whereas the Acharya Sankara was very careful not to mention anywhere, the word EESWARA or some such common terminology attributable to more than one form of God.....

And so in his SANKARA-BASHYAM, the Adhwaitha Acharya has all along attributed the Supreme-God as Narayana, Vasudeva, Paramaathma ,Kesava and the like specific names and adjectives prescribed exclusively for Lord Narayana only.

Sudhaama

16th April 2006, 06:24 PM

Sankaracharya and Ramanujacharya....

...the Great Emancipators of HUMANITY...

.. Salient-factors of COMPARISON..

(1) Both of them lived, practiced and manifested categorically as VAISHNAVITES... rather Vishnu-devotees... and preached so ONLY.

Ramanuja was the follower of Alwars, whereas Sankara was the follower of neither the Alwars nor Nayanmars... but independant on his own.

...In brief, Sankaracharya was .. NOT A SAIVA....but a SMARTHA
(One who performs Athma-Smarana that " I am God. God Himselves am I").

(2) The age 32 in both their cases was significant...but in different respects....

... Sankara became the Guru and commenced his Preachings from his age 16, and ended his Earthly-Life at the Age 32...

..whereas Ramanuja took up Sanyasam (Sainthood) became the Guru and ... commenced Preachings plus Social- Reforms from his Age 32.

(3) Sankara created a New Doctrine... ADHWAITHA, whereas Ramanuja did not create any New-Doctrine... but only named the already existing Philosophy on Vedas, as VISISHTA-ADHWAITHA ....and CLARIFIED on it....through his propogations.

(4) Both of them prominently differed in the DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSITE directions... only in their respective Philosophies i.e., the Relation between God and His Creations as well as our Ordained Approach to God... and NOTHING ELSE.

Ramanuja vehemently opposed Sankara's Two Doctrines predominantly. One is Maya-vaadham... and the other is Smaartha-Brahma-Vaadham...

Maya-vaadham of Sankaracharya states that the World is Maya(Mirage)...Not Real. Only the Supreme God is Real.

...Whereas Ramanuja strongly opposed it stating that the world and other creations are NOT MAYA....but the Real-existence in their respective forms and Names... as the creations shaped by the creator God...

... but in contrast to God. ...such creations have an End and Rebirths... being PERISHABLE or PROBABLE FOR TRANSFORMATION into other shapes... like Water into Ice or Steam.... Wood into Ash... Earth into Dust....etc.

Smaartha-Brahma-Vaadham according to Sankaracharya... states AHAM BRAHMAASMI, BRAHMAIVA AHAM-ASMI... which means " I am God...God Himself am I"....

...whereas Ramanuja opposed such a doctrine and stated that " I am NOT GOD...But only His Creation"

...To Continue.

Sudhaama

2nd May 2006, 10:08 PM

Today: Same BIRTHDAY for...

.. SANKARA AND RAMANUJA ACHARYAS... And?

Yes... Tamil-month ...CHITHTHIRAI ...Birth-Star : THIRUVAADHIRAI..

..For Sankaracharya and Ramanujacharya... the SAME STAR too.

Besides for Ramanujacharya, there is an added Importance and Significance for his Birthday, is...

...that it is his Reminiscense-day of his DEMISE TOO

Ramanuja was informed...rather FOREWARNED... by Lord Ranganatha,

..to get prepared to END HIS EARTHLY DUTIES on his 120th Birthday.

Accordingly, Sri Ramanuja passed on the Divine-message to his disciples ..

.. and wound-up his final-commitments for the mundane Lives, from 48 days in advance...

...duly advising the posterity, as well as offloading and distributing his responsibilities to his followers, to be continued even after his absence.

On his 120th Birthday, his Body reached the SAMAADHI-STATE...a Living Divine-body....

Yes the same body is kept open daily for worship, since the past about One Thousand years, at Srirangam.

Lord Ranganatha visits this Ramanuja-Shrine, once a year...and his Disciples thus worship their Acharya Ramanuja in his own Same Bodily- form too.

...Called "THAAN-AANA-THIRUMAENI"... located within Ranganatha Temple.

P_R

6th May 2006, 07:47 PM

Sudhaama

6th May 2006, 11:58 PM

Dear Sudhaama, a very enjoyable series of posts. Thank You.

On this episode of misconception, my Article in Tamil ...was published under my name Sudhaama in Shakthi-Vikatan Magazine last year... and is .still available in Online.

Do you need subscription to read it ? A I searched a bit but couldn't get the link. If it is not too much trouble can you post the link ?

Dear Prabhuram,

Thanks. My Article piblished in the Sakthi-Vikatan in 2004 was titled as...

...GOPURAM AERI RAMANUJAR SONNA RAHASIYAM..

I am not supposed to reproduce it elsewhere, since it will mean an infringement on the Vikan-publications Copyright... as also a Violation on my agreement with them..

I believe, it is still Available for the Online- Subscribers of Vikatan- Group publications.

In case of any problem, you can send an Email to them if you are a Subscriber, quoting the Article-Title as above... by the Author SUDHAAMA.

They will communicate the Article.. to your Email address.

However the same matter and content, I have reproduced here under this thread too..

Only difference is, that it is here... in English.

P_R

7th May 2006, 12:21 AM

Thank You. I am not a subscriber so I guess I'll rest content with your translation. I'll give it another shot nevertheless. Hope to read more in this thread.

Sudhaama

8th May 2006, 07:37 AM

Thank You. I am not a subscriber so I guess I'll rest content with your translation. I'll give it another shot nevertheless. Hope to read more in this thread.

Dear Prabhu Ram,

For your convenience, I reproduce it herebelow :

http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?p=250997#250997

P_R

17th May 2006, 03:44 PM

Dear Prabhu Ram,

For your convenience, I reproduce it herebelow :

http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?p=250997#250997
Sorry for the delayed response I was away from the Hub for a while.

Thank you Sudhaama. I have already read this as I have been following the thread from the start. I was reading silently because I had nothing to add.

Sudhaama

18th May 2006, 12:57 AM

...

Ramanuja-acharya preached SOCIAL EQUANIMITY...

Discriminatory MANU "DHARMA SASTHRAM" ?..Genuine ?

Vedas & Geetha stipulate COMMUNAL-DIVISIONS?

There are Two sorts of Service to God. according Vedic-sasthras.

...SESHATHWAM (Sevakam in Tamil) =
Direct Service to God... similar to Lakshmana of Ramayana

PAARATHANTHRIYAM (Parhai in Tamil) =
Command-services as ordained by God... similar to Bharatha of Ramayana ... which is preferred by God, more than the other.

Lord Ranganatha of Srirangam advised His Seshawathara Ramanuja and further persuaded him to perform "PARHAI" services on Earth as per HIS COMMANDS...

Whereas Ramanuja relished more on SEVAKAM of direct service to Him and so preferred to continue at Srirangam only ...

... without moving out anywhere else, contrary to his purpose of Reincarnation on Earth... to Emancipate the Humanity.

Lord Ranganatha did not approve his Serviceman Ramanuja's stand and so after waiting for some time He intentionally created a crucial situation as below... practically urging him to quit Chozha Kingdom forthwith

..Vide my Posting in Page:2... dated November 08, 2005... with the Heading as..

Ramanuja AADHISESHAWATHARA proved during Lifetime: Episode-I

http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?t=4854&
postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

Eventually he was left with no other alternative than to quit Chozha dhesam immediately...

Because of the Reasons...

(1) To save his Disciple Kooraththaazhvaan ... who had already reached Chozha King and protracted himself as Ramanuja... with a noble intention to protect his Guru Ramanuja...

(2) Insistance from his disciples... that Ramanuja's life is in danger if he continues anymore at Srirangam whereas his services will be better utlised alongwith the due honour and reverance by the Kings of other regions of the country Bhaaratham, far contrary to the aversion by the Chozha King.

(3) God's wishes cannot be postponed anymore, especially after His ultimatum by Asareeri voice.

So Ramanuja along with a batch of his dedicated Disciples... surreptitiously rushed out of Chozha- Rajyam towards Melnaadu... the present Karnataka,

Ramanuja MINGLED freely with the DOWNTRODDEN

In the course of Pallanquin-Travel .. the convoy had to Night-halt and HIDE at a Farmers Hamlet.... comprising of Harijans / Backward community... exclusively

... Rather the Acharya along with his Team stayed with those so called "Untouchables" of those Monarchy days...

...while he being a Brahmin as well as an Acharya-peetaadhipathi stipulated to be STRICTLY ORTHODOX

But Ramanuja did not feel any aversion nor dejection but felt happy and proud that it was a BLESSING IN DISGUISE... being rare opportunity for him

...to INTERACT WITH DOWNTRODDEN mass of the Society... enabling him to do his best towards their Social- uplift.

So he called for an assembly of all the Inhabitants... to his hut. and discussed.

The Acharya asked the people overall..." Do you ever worship God in any manner or at least go to Temple?"

" Why should we worship God... or go to Temple? We are after all Farmers confined to do our duty on Agriculture only...

...whereas it is you peoples duty to worship God...ON OUR BEHALF TOO...

Ramanuja was stunned to hear such an unexpected reply. and asked back...

" If you mean the duty of Brahmins and Acharyas like me, is supposed to perform Yagas, Yagjnas, Veda-paarayana for the sake of the whole Society,...

.. Well you are correct. But how do you exclude yourself from worshipping God, who is common for all. ?

...Especially the Temples are intended mainly for the COMMONFOLKS like you... at the lowest strata of Society. Then why should you not think and worship God there, at least once a week? ".... asked Ramanuja.

"No, Sami,... we are Untouchables... we fear to pollute the sacred places..

...by which we may add up our sins as also inevitably earn the wrath of God" ... a section of the people said.

Another group said, "We are prepared but NOT ALLOWED TO ENTER the Temple."

Then the Acharya gave a detailed Lecture in a simple Language... conducive enough to the reach of those uneducated simpletons at a low perception capacity.

..and by means of an open-minded dialogue... face to face... convinced them...

...that the God is One... Worshipping Him in any form and method of ones own choice is NOT CONFINED TO ANY ONE OR A FEW COMMUNTIES ONLY...

...but one and all of the Society... individually and collectively as well...

...God is the Supreme-might... the Common- Protector of our Social Prosperity and Life on the whole...

...and so, all have to pray God... at least as a MARK OF GRATITUDE....

And further he assured them that he will ensure the Downtrodden too to be allowed to enter Temples and worship the deities there... as soon as possible.

Accordingly, on reaching his destination Melnaadu, he proposed to the King...after gaining his confidence and reverence.

"Hae Raja, Why should you not allow the Harijans to worship in the temples, at par with other Hindus... ensuring SOCIAL EQUANIMITY?"... asked Ramanuja.

"Swami, if you so command, I have no objection to implement it. But I fear it may result in a persistent Social-Turmoil...

...since the Forward community people will not accept such a sudden BREAK- THROUGH...

...a Gross Violation of Vedic Codes and Hindu Dharma- sasthras" the King replied..

"Oh! ..Wherein such Prohibitory Laws of discrimination have been authenticated in Hindu Scriptures? Hae Raja, arrange for a Scholars- congregation of the Hindu Philosophical experts and Pandits..

...I will convince them based on the True sense... of our holy Scriptures...

....Vs their SELF- WILLED CONTENTIONS and Unbased Surmises"... said Ramanuja.

Accordingly the Experts-congregation of Vedic Scholars and Temple-Pandits was convened,...

... where the Acharya raised the same point with the Hindu Scholars...

In reply to the Acharya on such an erstwhile UNCHALLENGED QUESTION,... the Scholars defended their stand by quoting from Vedas, Geethas and Manu-Dharma-sasthra...

... trying to justify their parochial MEAN-MINDEDNESS... in counter to Social Equanimity.

Discriminatory MANU-DHARMA SASTHRA .. Ever approved Social- Code?

Ramanuja replied...

(1) So called Manu-Dharma Sasthra is... NEITHER A DHARMA.....NOR A SASTHRA... but only Adharma.... plus Autocratic-code for Domination by the Dictator Kings.... in the guise of implementation of Religious commandments...

... under the False-label of Divine-Gospel.... ...although made by an ordinary man ... NOT ORDAINED BY GOD...as you people are thinking.

The name MANU-SMRITHI.... means "The code made out by Manu"... Not Manu-sasthra.

Another section of Experts argued that the word "Manu" indicates "Mankind". So it is the Sasthra commonly laid out for the sake of Mankind of four divisions or strata, varying from the lowest to the highest.... on the basis of their community of birth

How Manu-Smrithi Originated?

It started with the then Kalinga-desam(present Orissa)... whose Dictator King documented this Manu-Smrithi... composed by his Minister named Manu. a Kshathriya by birth.

In those days of Monarchy in general, the Kings preferred to have the least content of Army.... that too confined to only for Self-defense against foreign invasion...

...and NOT FOR POLICING... which function was taken care of by the local team of Guards...separate for each colony. The team was made up of one member from each family of Residents by turn.

For functional convenience and representations with the King and the Clients as well, alongside the Social-security ensuring amity... the Workers of Specific skills preferred to stay together as a group residing within one colony.

Thus each colony became the Residences of Carpenters, Farmers, Cobblers, Musicians, Pandits and the like... by separate entities in each colony of its own ... located apart.

To ensure self- discipline in each colony at a negligible cost.

... the King announced an Annual Prize-award to the colony best ensuring Peace.

And the Self-imposed Codes for each colony was demanded for monitoring by the Government on the orderly conduct and proper implementation.

So each Community-wise Segmental leader, in consultation with their members framed the Social-codes for themselves... which were presented to the King

Then the Kalinga minister prepared a Comprehensive form of all the various Segmental-codes... into one Text... which was later named as Manu-Smrithi by the Kalinga King.

Further he made it as a Law... in the names of Castes, based on various Skills mostly. Further some communities were created by the King or the Society by way of Negative outlook.

Even during those days, it was not accepted by the Social-Scholars, stating that the punishments are disproportionate... that discremination on the basis of birth is UNETHICAL... and it is practically impossible to identify or prove anybody to belong to any specific caste...

... especially in a mixed Society of different communities... The Kings themselves caused such embarassing mixtures by maarying several girls from different communities. .

So it had been DROPPED FROM PRACTICE... since it became a practical failure... causing persistent Social upheavels...even during those days of law-origination.

So Manu-smrithi is totally out of consideration"... Ramanuja declared.

SOCIAL- DISCRIMINATION by birth ..Ordained by Vedas and Geetha.?

Then it was argued by the Scholars that the Vedas have affirmed on the Communalisation of the Society mass....

...and DISCREMINATION.... BY BIRTH.. as high and low... by the terminologies...

...in Purusha-Sooktham, the most important part of Vedas... as below.

"Braahmanosya mukham aaseeth.... Baahu Raajanya krithaha... Ooru thadhasya yadh Vaisyaha... Padhmyaagum Soodhro Ajaayatha.".

And Geetha says that the Four Communal -divisions... are MY MAKING .. meaning "by God"...

... by the words... "Chaathur Varnam Maya Srushtam"

Ramanuja immediately laughed at them... and said...

... "What a FOOLISH MIS-INTERPRETATION?

...To Continue....

Sudhaama

27th May 2006, 03:23 AM

...
...Geetha stipulates CASTE-DIVISIONS ... as God-made.?

Ramanuja-acharya Clarifies.... (In continuation of previous posting)

The Vedic-Scholars Assembly argued with the Ramanuja-acharya, that the Vedhas, Geetha alongside other Scriptures of the Vedic-Religion... ordain the Social-Strata by Caste-System...

... asserting the right and claim for Social-discrimination... evaluating the individuals on the basis of birth in a family.

Quoting for example ... "Geetha says that the Four Varnas ...Communal-divisions... are MY MAKING .. meaning "by God"...

... by the words... "Chaathur Varnyam Maya Srushtam".

Ramanuja immediately laughed at them... and said...

... "What a FOOLISH MIS-INTERPRETATION?... If anybody in darkness just touches an Elephant's Foot only, and declares that the Elephant resembles a Pillar...

... what can you understand about him.? So....is your argument based on Part-data, which is misleading...

... and so You mean these Castes or Communal-divisions ....WERE CREATED BY GOD... and that you all are ordained to follow the GOD-MADE DISCRIMINATION by birth.!!...Is it not?

But in fact, it is NOT SO...The full version of the relevant Geetha-sloka....

Chaathur Varnyam maya srushtam, Guna Karma vibhaagasaha
Thasya karthaaramapi maam vidhyadhyakarthaaram avyayam

... which means... "Four Classifications (of Humanity) by birth, is my creation... on the basis of their VARIED QUALITIES. Although I am the creator of such divisions by birth, I do not conduct them furtheron so. (I intend them to develop and raise up themselves.. by the best and ultimate opportunity by the Super-birth as Mankind)

Such divisions on the basis of innate Propensities have no connection nor concern with your own basis of Caste-divisions... and Social-discrimination.

By the above Sloka... it means... there may be a Born-Brahmin in a Cobblers family...by his high quality of pure "Sathva" ...

... similar to Nandanar, Tukaram and Thirupaanh-Aazhvaar...

... who deserve to be classified as Brahmins, even though born to the so-called Soodhra-parents and Heirarchy totally.

Similarly... due to the innate complex form of qualities of Thamo-guna plus Rajo-guna... there can be a BORN-SOODRA in a so called Brahmin-family...

...although born to Brahmin parents as well as Heirarachy totally....

Ajaamilha belongs to this category as Soodhra...because of his Non-Sathva qualities but of Thaamasa plus Rajo-gunas...by his thoughts and deeds...

... despite his birth to Brahmin parents and Family-lineage.

Lord Vishnu is called a SUDDHA-SATHVA...a high Brahminic-Quality according to all our Holy Scriptures.

But even amongst HIS various Awatharas ... we can notice this strange phenomena of varied qualities.

For example...Lord Parasurama is considered as Brahmin, since born to Brahmin parents

...but in the Realistic-sense, he was a Kashathriya by the matching qualities....

...being endowed predominantly with Rajo-guna alongwith Sathva-guna...

Otherwise He would not have chopped off His mother's head...under any circumstances... even on the commands of his father.

If he were a Brahmin by qualities, he would have pleaded with both his Father and Mother... basing on Dharma, requesting his Mother to apologise alongside appealing to his Father for pardon....

...or in the worst case... to render the due punishment to the Wife by the Husband himself, keeping off the son from the picture.

And in the case of Lord Rama....by the Brahminic qualities of Suddha-Sathva He proved Himself as a Brahmin although of Kshathriya heirarchy according to your basis....far different from the Vedic norms.

In brief... the Same names of classifications of Mankind as per the Vedic-Scriptures, have been adopted by the Kings for the families...

... on the basis of their occupation or some such divisions of Ruling- convenience.

So both these Basis should neither be connected nor inter-related... nor be based upon as Sacrament.....

.... asserted Ramanuja emphatically.

[We can understand this sense better by our present World History.... from the word INDIANS.

People born in the country called India... are considered as Indians.

And the ancient Tribes like Red-Indians of USA... Australian-Indians of Australia, and like... are also called as INDIANS.

Are both the same?... Is there any mutual Relation in between?

But only NAMED SO.... FOR CONVENIENCE.... of the Kings or Rulers]

So such a PAROCHIAL OUTLOOK of Social-discrimination cannot be taken shelter under either the Vedic Scriptures or under the name of any God- form

All over the Vedic Scriptures, you can find the insistence on ONLY UNIVERSAL EQUANIMITY...

....asserting the least inconsistency nor Self-contradictions anywhere all through.

So nobody is higher or lower by birth. It is sinful to consider or treat anybody so.

Social-Equanimity is the UNDOUBTEED GOSPEL...

...ORDAINED by all Scriptures including Geetha and Vedhas... declared Ramanuja.

bis_mala

28th May 2006, 04:40 PM

srivatsan

28th May 2006, 07:51 PM

Sudhaama

29th May 2006, 01:52 AM

Chaathur Varnyam maya srushtam, Guna Karma vibhaagasaha
Thasya karthaaramapi maam vidhyadhyakarthaaram avyayam

... which means... "Four Classifications (of Humanity) by birth, is my creation... on the basis of their VARIED QUALITIES. Although I am the creator of such divisions by birth, I do not conduct them furtheron so. (I intend them to develop and raise up themselves.. by the best and ultimate opportunity by the Super-birth as Mankind)

Pardon me, just to clear by own doubt, in the Sans verse you cited, what are the Sanskrit words, which stand for the phrase: "by birth"?(which occurs in the interpretation above).

Ms.Sivamala "Guna Karma vibhaagasaha" means "According to Character and Kind of Job", which was what it is meant to be......I think, the translation and interpretation is wrong......thanks that you caught it. :)

Dear "bis_mala" and "srivatsan"... Welcome.

(1) Birth : In every Creation of Human-being.. it involves CREATION at the womb followed by BIRTH subsequently. So the sense of "Birth" is also implied by just the one word "Creation" in this case. however to emphatically stress on both these senses, I have mentioned as CREATOR and BY BIRTH.

(2) Guna-Karma Vibhaagasaha :It has to be analytically understood as... KARMA-GUNA VIBHAAGASAHA..

KARMA is the outcome of the Soul's Good and Bad deeds ..during the previous births.

So, according to the Karma-gunas accrued to the Soul... every Soul is ordained to take a minimum of 7 births of Strata... Starting from the WORM... upto its Final stage as MANKIND.

Worm is the most Inferior birth... due to its possession of only the SINGLE SENSE of Wisdom...

...while Mankind is the most Superior birth ...being the possessor of SIX SENSES of Wisdom.. wholly... deserving as the Super Intellectual.

Since each soul becomes Karma-bound due its varied past deeds, the subsequent birth is individually decided according to the degree and grade of past earnings of Karmas.

After series of such strata of births, finally the Soul reaches the Human-birth as the last opportunity for Self-emancipation.

Mukthi is the Final Goal of every Soul....as Non-return or Rebirth anymore..

But even for that ultimate choice as Human-birth, some souls do not get qualified due to its heavy accumulation of Karmas. However out of compassion and Hope ...

... God gracefully grants the highest Birth as Human...selectively to some souls...even though UNQUALIFIED for Human-birth..

Consequently... a Snake gets a Human-birth.... innate with the Snake- qualities.... although in the shape of Mankind...

....similarly a Cow, Fox, Tiger etc. too...get the most advanced Human- birth...

... mixed alongwith some other Souls,... fully qualified to be uplifted as Mankind...

They used to be of Ideal Human-Qualities... apt, EMULATIVE AND EXEMPLARY.

So on the basis of each Soul's pre-birth qualities... SO CARRIED-OVER

.... God classifies under one or the other of the Four Varnas(Species / Divisions) as due and apt... by the God's evaluation and judgement...

...IRRESPECTIVE of the Past and the Present PARENTAGE or HEIRARCHY

bis_mala

29th May 2006, 09:52 AM

Sudhaama

29th May 2006, 05:13 PM

I have mentioned as CREATOR and BY BIRTH.

Thanks for admitting that this "by birth" is neither from the Geeta nor from the celebrated Ramanuja but your own mentioning. Grateful for clearing my doubts!!

Dear bis_mala,

What is this FUNNY ARGUMENT AND INFERENCE on your own... irrespective of my clarification?

I have already mentioned that the SENSE OF BIRTH IS.... IMPLIED .... "by Creation"....

... whether I pinpoint it or not. Rather in any case, it means so.. However I added EMPHASIS by repeating the sense once more.

So, even if I don't emphasise... the meaning will not go different.

If anybody says... "God created Sun"... will you understand it... that...

... it does not mean the... Sun's BIRTH.... ALSO !!!

Sudhaama

2nd June 2006, 07:43 AM

[tscii:95afca0b6b]...

Geetha authorises “Social Discrimination” ?

Ramanujacharya continued his reply to the Vedic Scholars…

No doubt further too...in Geetha there are Slokas specifically mentioning as Brahmana, Kashathriya, Vaisya and Soodhra classifications of Mankind CREATED SO BY BIRTH by God.

But invariably in all those slokas, it clearly declares undoubtedly… that such categorizations are based on their varied standards in Sathva, Rajas, and Thaamas qualities… inborn by nature,…

...conveying the same concept of the above-mentioned Sloka more analytically

So to say, even in one and the same family of any Caste, amongst the four Sons of the same Parents of one Blood-relation...

...there can be one born of Kshathriya qualities while his brothers may be Brahmana, Vaisya and Soodhra... conforming to the sense of Geetha.

Thus, such a Quality-basis is totally unrelated to the Communal-theory of the so called Manu-Dharma Sasthram...

...NOT A SAASTHRAM.... NOR DIVINE, since NOT MADE BY GOD....

... but AUTOCRATICALLY stipulated by the Kings, the Human-beings.

...imitating the same names mentioned in Geetha and Vedas..for their Caste- Names..

Then the Scholars raked up the Vedic sense in relation to Geetha....

...Claiming that the Geetha follows the Vedic-concept of Communal- discrimination by birth as high and low...

...in the Strata of Society comprising of Brahmana, Kshathriya, Vaisya and Soodhra....

... Purusha-sooktha of Yajur-Veda... says

Braahmanosya Mukham.aaseeth. Baahu Raajanya krithaha
Ooru thadhasya yadh Vaisyaha Padhmyaagum Soodhro ajaayatha

On hearing so... Ramanuja laughed at them and said

....“What a PERVERTED MEANING.!!”

...To Continue.
[/tscii:95afca0b6b]

s_anandaraj

8th June 2006, 10:42 PM

sudhama sir,

Excelent job, keep going. can you please tell about 'Madhvacharya'
and his time and contribution to vedic literature.

Sudhaama

10th June 2006, 12:35 AM

sudhama sir,

Excelent job, keep going. can you please tell about 'Madhvacharya'
and his time and contribution to vedic literature.

Thank you. I will be happy to write on Madhwacharya too. But very much tight-timed.

See out of about 170 threads I am participating... most of which initiated by me...

...how I am progressing!... very very slow. !!

s_anandaraj

11th June 2006, 02:39 PM

yes, i saw and wonder perfection on your works. pl. go ahead on your work.

thanks

Sudhaama

1st July 2006, 02:32 AM

[tscii:dbb23340ba]...

Vedas authorize CASTE-DIVISIONS of Society?

Ramanujacharya replied to the Vedic pundits …refuting their False-Claim that Vedas authorize CASTE-DIVISIONS …

…on the basis of….. “ONE’S BIRTH and PARENTAGE.”…

…in support of which they quoted…

Vedic Quotation:---

Braahmanosya Mukham.aaseeth. Baahu Raajanya krithaha
Ooru thadhasya yadh Vaisyaha Padhmyaagum Soodhro ajaayatha

Ramanuja clarified that their contention was the perverted sense of the Vedic terminologies… while their proper meaning is as below.

Here the words of Brahmana, Rajanya, Vysya and Soodhra… are not all the Caste-names but only the related Qualities of Sathwa, Rajasa and Thamasa gunas…

…showing their relevant roles in the God’s conducting the Universe.

God being SATHWA-FACED…looks and decides on the basis of Sathwa guna…

...the outcome of Wisdom, Righteousness, Justice and Uniform Love towards all.

Being RAJASA ARMED..His actions are dynamic, forceful, Supreme-
Commanding.

Being VYSYA –THIGHED…God’s whole Rule or Rein is supported by
the Complex quality approach towards His creations by more of Love and Equanimity … totally free of Anger and Hatred

Being SOODRA SOURCED BY FEET… He is Service-minded, towards
His creations with a Fatherly-spirit towards his children…

…irrespective of His Supremacy in all respects.

…His whole body stands on such a humble Service-spirit like an affectionate Mother towards her babies.

Simply because these Vedic terms have been adopted by the Kings and used for labeling the children for some sections of. Society…

…on the basis of their Parentage… it does not relate to them at all.

In the Vedas or Geetha…is there any mention of such Names relating to their Parentage or Community?

This Vedic Sloka only means… that although God is a SUDDHA-SATHWA …with an approach by Wisdom…

His actions by reality are the Complex forms of three gunas…

…matching with the similar qualities amongst His creations.

And this Sloka has nothing to mean the Man-created Caste divisions …

…since all His creations are His Children deserving equal Parental Love and Justice

So God is IMPARTIAL with UNIVERSAL LOVE.…concluded Ramanuja
...[/tscii:dbb23340ba]

Sudhaama

1st July 2006, 08:55 PM

...
High and Low Castes.!..GOD-MADE SOCIAL-STRATA?

Silenced by the undisputable Counter-arguments from Ramanuja Acharya...

... the Vedic Pundits. raised another point of SOCIAL-STRATA .. and asked...

"It is confusing for us and appears to be INCONSISTENT and Self-contradictory in Vedas....

Why God's face is depicted to BRAHMANA... Arms (Hands) to KSHATHRIYA, and Thighs to VAISYA and the Feet to SOODHRA...

...presenting the picture of Castes order of Superiority and Inferiority from Top to Bottom... as a Social-strata?

On hearing so...Ramanuja laughed and replied....

"Repeatedly you are unnecessarily and IRRELEVANTLY bringing in the Social picture of Communal-divisions, which has nothing to do here... simply because of the mention by words Brahmana, Kshathriya, Vaisya etc.

Hereby I further clarify. Brahmana, Kasthathriya and the like here denotes the relevant Qualities attributed.

No doubt Sathva-guna is superior than the two other Qualities...But that does not mean all the Brahmanas born in the caste you have named so....are of Sathwa-guna...

...nor the most Inferior Quality of Indolence and Servitude can be found in one and all the so called Soodhras

...because everone of the so called socially Soodhra... INVARIABLY is not inborn with Thamasa Qualities... based on Parentage.

Similarly even a Brahmana or Kshathriya-caste person may or may not be so inferior by qualities BY BIRTH.

Vedas, Geetha and the like Gospels.... Nowhere mention these names for Castes or the Communal- divisions...

...but only for the Qualities of Humans born with... Irrespective of PARENTAGE.... as I have already detailed that amongst the Brothers and Sisters of One and the same blood and Ancestry....

...One may be a BORN-BRAHMANA ...while the other a Born-Kshathriya... and another a Born-soodhra too.... based on their INNATE QUALITIES...

...a Varied STRATA OF PERSONAGE. The Yardstick is Not Parentage... but Inborn Qualities... IRRESPECTIVE OF CASTES !!!

Here the Veda describes God's approach towards His Creations... and not to mean Social-Divisions.

...To Continue.

pizzalot

3rd July 2006, 07:49 AM

...
No doubt Sathva-guna is superior than the two other Qualities...But that does not mean all the Brahmanas born in the caste you have named so....are of Sathwa-guna...

...nor the most Inferior Quality of Indolence and Servitude can be found in one and all the so called Soodhras

...because everone of the so called socially Soodhra... INVARIABLY is not inborn with Thamasa Qualities... based on Parentage.

Similarly even a Brahmana or Kshathriya-caste person may or may not be so inferior by qualities BY BIRTH.

Vedas, Geetha and the like Gospels.... Nowhere mention these names for Castes or the Communal- divisions...

...but only for the Qualities of Humans born with... Irrespective of PARENTAGE.... as I have already detailed that amongst the Brothers and Sisters of One and the same blood and Ancestry....

...One may be a BORN-BRAHMANA ...while the other a Born-Kshathriya... and another a Born-soodhra too.... based on their INNATE QUALITIES...

...a Varied STRATA OF PERSONAGE. The Yardstick is Not Parentage... but Inborn Qualities... IRRESPECTIVE OF CASTES !!!

Here the Veda describes God's approach towards His Creations... and not to mean Social-Divisions.

...To Continue.

You are contradicting your own statements. First of all, you are saying the divisions are not based on parentage. Next thing you say is the divisions are based on innate-qualities a human is born with.

How do you know with what qualities he is born with until after he grows-up to exhibit them ?

So it was the parentage that was the yard stick isn't it ? Was there an instance where someone born a Sudra ever declared as Brahmana by Ramunajacharya ?

Is it you or is it Ramunajacharya I am faulting ?

Badri

3rd July 2006, 07:56 AM

Sudhaama: You are no doubt aware that any reference to caste is not allowed in this Forum. Request you to kindly refrain from any such discussion even if it is relevant to your topic.

Sudhaama

3rd July 2006, 08:23 AM

Sudhaama: You are no doubt aware that any reference to caste is not allowed in this Forum. Request you to kindly refrain from any such discussion even if it is relevant to your topic.

Yes, my dear Badri... I am already keeping in mind constantly... and carefully handling the matter... since it is a sensitive issue., I know.

But certain minimum is UNAVOIDABLE... to alleviate the misconception and WRONG INTERPRETATION by some people.... thus SULLYING the high Sense of Vedas and Geetha. If I totally refrain from REVEALING THE TRUTH... as brought to light by the Great Acharya, Ramanuja... I think I will be doing a GRAVE INJUSTICE ... not only to Ramanuja but also all the people who are dumfounded UNABLE TO COUNTER the RADICALLY WRONG PROPAGANDA against the High values of Indian Heritage ..of Large-hearted approach towards mankind.

Let people criticize my statements. I welcome and will be able reply UNEMOTIONALLY and also ensuring non-interference of anybody of fanatic malefic intentions.

You know ... I am carefully protecting the interests of our Hub... conforming to Regulations.. and will continue to do so.

But please don't discourage me by asking...

... to SHY AWAY from THROWING LIGHT TOWARDS DARKNESS.... based on the Great Ramanuja's approach.

If I make it incomplete to convey the True sense of that Great Acharya's noble Services towards the Society...

...it will mean my failure to Unravel the False-shelter by some miscreants under the Holy- scriptures ...

...preventing their undue domination over the Healthy Gospels... as ESTABLISHED by the Great Acharya ...

... for the sake of United Advancement of Society with mutual Humanitarian- Love.

Sudhaama

3rd July 2006, 08:30 AM

You are contradicting your own statements. First of all, you are saying the divisions are not based on parentage. Next thing you say is the divisions are based on innate-qualities a human is born with.

How do you know with what qualities he is born with until after he grows-up to exhibit them ?

So it was the parentage that was the yard stick isn't it ? Was there an instance where someone born a Sudra ever declared as Brahmana by Ramunajacharya ?

Is it you or is it Ramunajacharya I am faulting ?

All these questions have aleady been answered in detail in this Thread. Please see my earlier postings..

aravindhan

3rd July 2006, 07:18 PM

So it was the parentage that was the yard stick isn't it ? Was there an instance where someone born a Sudra ever declared as Brahmana by Ramunajacharya ?

Ramanajucharya said that a person's birth and / or caste was utterly irrelevant to his status. He accepted non-Brahmins as his gurus, and he made his followers venerate non-Brahmin azhwars and other vaishnava devotees. His point was not merely to make non-Brahmins Brahmins, but to do away with the idea that one's birth conferred status.

Here is his teaching as recorded by Pillai Lokachariar in the Sri Vachana Bhushanam. It is in manipravalam, but if you know Tamil it is easily understandable:

bhāgavatāpacārandhān anēka vidam
athilē oṉṟu avarkaḷ pakkal janma nirūpaṇam
athai mātru yoni parīkṣaiyōṭu okkumeṉṟu śāstram sollum

That is extremely strong language, wouldn't you say? I hope it gives you a better idea of what he was trying to achieve.

Sudhaama

3rd July 2006, 10:02 PM

...
Ramanuja propogated TRUE SPIRIT OF HUMANITY.

So it was the parentage that was the yard stick isn't it ? Was there an instance where someone born a Sudra ever declared as Brahmana by Ramunajacharya ?

........ Here is his teaching as recorded by Pillai Lokachariar in the Sri Vachana Bhushanam. It is in manipravalam, but if you know Tamil it is easily understandable:

bhāgavatāpacārandhān anēka vidam
athilē oṉṟu avarkaḷ pakkal janma nirūpaṇam
athai mātru yoni parīkṣaiyōṭu okkumeṉṟu śāstram sollum

That is extremely strong language, wouldn't you say? I hope it gives you a better idea of what he was trying to achieve.

The same Text also says...

Bhagawadh-apachaaraththinum DHOORTHAM Bhaagawadh-apachaaramirhae.

...which means ...Guilts to God-Servicemen are WORSE than...

... the Guilts to GOD HIMSELF.

bhāgavatāpacārandhān anēka vidam =
There are several types of Guilts to God-servicemen

athilē oṉṟu avarkaḷ pakkal janma nirūpaṇam =
One of them is.... PROBING into the Value-proof of THEIR BIRTH-ORIGIN.

athai mātru yoni parīkṣaiyōṭu okkumeṉṟu śāstram sollum =
which equals to EXAMINING his MOTHER'S CHILD-DELIVERY-PATH...
... declares Saasthras

(1) Ramanuja did not convert anybody from one Caste to another. But only preached ...

... BY BIRTH Nobody is Superior or Inferior... ALL ARE EQUAL in the Society.

(2) His first Guru on the Philosophy of Visishtadwaitha... was Thiru-Kachi Nambi, a Vaisya... as ordained by Lord Varadaraja.

(3) He broke the convention... for KAILAAHU ( Accompaniment with the Acharya or Saint in front of him, taking the Guru's hands to rest on the Disciple's Shoulders) by Ilhaiya-villi-dhaasan, a Thiru-Kulathor (Harijan)

(4) He has documented in KOYIL-OZHUHU ... Srirangam-Temple- Regulations on the Ritual conducts.... stipulating EQUAL TREATMENT for all the God-Serviceman....(irrespective of their Birth origin)..

Thus a Vedic-pundit, Bhattar (Poojaari), the Potmaker, Dhobi(Clothe Washerman), Pandhal builder....

...was and is rendered EQUAL HONOUR towards their varied sorts of Temple- services in the Ranganatha Temple at Srirangam and elsewhere following his Faith.

(5) As an honour and recognition ... for True devotion towards Lord Narayana..

...Ramanuja incorporated a Thuluka-Nachiyar sannidhi within the precincts of Ranganatha Temple at Srirangam...

... for a Muslim-princess !.

(6) He Volunteered to develop the sense of Devotion amongst the Downtrodden ignorant-Villagers... named them as THIRU-KULATHOR ... making them feel high-spirited and Self-elated as Humans... irrespective of Heredity.

(7) After his personal strenuous endeavour to convince all the Four segments of Society....Viz. Kings, Pundits, Reluctant Harijans, Willing Devotee-Harijans barred by others.... Ramanuja arranged for Worship in all the Vishnu- temples under his control.... starting from Thiru-Narayanapuram in the present Karnataka.

(8) Ramanuja introduced a new tradition of ... PULLING RATHA (God's Chariot) UNITEDLY by all the Devotees at par, which healthy practice was accepted by the Kings and adopted in all other Temples too subsequently all over South India... supplemented by Orissa Puri Temple.

(9) Amongst the devotees, he inculcated a Father-Child Spirit of Royal -affection by Paternal-values coupled with Simplicity from God....

... by newly introducing the Uthsavar to visit around the Residential Streets of Devotees....

... which practice too was appreciated by the Kings and adopted in all other Temples of South India.

(10) He also introduced a new System of showing equal regard towards all the Devotees... irrespective of Age and Knowledge too....

... on an only consideration ... that before God, all His Devotees are SIMILAR TO DUST-PARTICLES...

So it is quite immaterial...and there can be No Meaningful Consideration as to ...

... WHICH ONE DUST IS SUPERIOR OVER THE OTHER...in the Oceanic Realm of God.!.
...

Rohit

5th July 2006, 01:44 AM

Sudhaama

5th July 2006, 08:27 AM

[quote="Rohit"]Dear Sudhaama,
Your commitment to maintain Ramanujacharya as the great philosopher and social reformer is, without any question, commendable.

You have briefly touched upon Ramanujacharya's life and the differences between Sankaracharya, Ramanujacharya and Madhwacharya. You have also clarified his stand on some contentious and controversial scriptural issues.

I have searched the entire topic, but couldn't find anything on Ramanujacharya's views on human suffering and the framework he used to explain suffering in general.

May I request you to elaborate on Ramanujacharya's views on human suffering and the framework he used to explain it?

Thank you :)[/quote

Dear Mr Rohit,

Thank you very much for detailed Feedback and ENCOURAGEMENT. to me.

Ramanuja's various Treatises...... including Brahma-soothra-Bashyam for Vedas... and Geetha-Bashyam too....

as well as his approach are entirely based on the Concept of Thiruvaaymozhi of Nammazhwar....

...although he has not quoted so anywhere all through... because All- India Philosophical Scholars in and out of Vedic Religion, did not value any Tamil-scriptures as divine or authentic God-say ...

...or even as the Tamil-form of Descriptive-Veda... despite such a fact...

....ONLY BECAUSE OF THE MEDIUM LANGUAGE TAMIL. .

Rather all the Scholars including the Kings of those days decried Tamil very low before Sanskrit, so called Vedic-Language of Divinity.

But they all realised the Truth ...due to the strenuous endeavour by Ramanuja...

... after he could excel and win over all his critics and opponents.. invariably.

... when the Nation could realize that Ramanujacharya was the Re-incarnation of Adhi-sesha ...

...and that the Alwars too were God-sent ..So their words should be treaed as Gospels of God emanated through them.

So Thiruvaaymozhi has the clear answer for all your questions... which sense was propogated by Ramanuja to the Overall Society.

In brief....

(1) Vaikuntham puhuvadhu Manhnhavar Vidhiyae =

Birth and Sufferings are because of KARMAS... outcome of past deeds. Mankind's birth is the last opportunity to get rid of furthermore Re-births. So every man is destined to end his series of births and must strive to reach Moksha / Mukthi / Bliss... by sincerely adhering to Dharmas in the present birth... and by TOTAL-SURRENDER to God.

(2) Saranham-aahum Thanadhu Thaalh Adaindhaarkku yellaam,
Maranam-aakki Vaikuntham kodukkum Piraan.=

God is the only ULTIMATE GOAL for Man... not only for Post-death period... but also for the present days. So Man should surrender to God by true sense and spirit... in his EVERY THOUGHT TALK and DEED.

Consequently God will end the Sufferings soon, gracefully blessing the Devotee for Liberation.

(3) Onrhu ena, pala ena, Arhivarhum vadivinulh ninrha Nanrhu ezhil Naaranan, Naanmuhan, Aran ennum Ivarai, "ONRHA" num Manathu vaithu... ulhlhi num iru-pasai arhuththu..... Avanidai nanhnhinam naamae.=

God is One. But he appears and showers grace in the various Forms and Formless too... according to the choice of the devotees.

One God Narayana appears as Siva, Brahma and other deities too.

But the easiest form of worship is.... ONE UNIFIED FORM of all Gods within One God Narayana.... without any dilemma or duplicacy.

Accomodation with the Global-devotees of various Faiths including Atheists, is unavoidable.

Social Unity... is utmost important... although of Mosaic-faiths and Non- faith.

Collective-prayer fetches fast Results.

Surrender to Unified- Narayana is the "Easiest means" to lead a Happy Life and ULTIMATE HUMAN GOAL
...

Rohit

6th July 2006, 03:02 AM

Dear Sudhaama,
Your commitment to maintain Ramanujacharya as the great philosopher and social reformer is, without any question, commendable.

You have briefly touched upon Ramanujacharya's life and the differences between Sankaracharya, Ramanujacharya and Madhwacharya. You have also clarified his stand on some contentious and controversial scriptural issues.

I have searched the entire topic, but couldn't find anything on Ramanujacharya's views on human suffering and the framework he used to explain suffering in general.

May I request you to elaborate on Ramanujacharya's views on human suffering and the framework he used to explain it?

Thank you :)
Dear Mr Rohit,

Thank you very much for detailed Feedback and ENCOURAGEMENT. to me.

Birth and Sufferings are because of KARMAS... outcome of past deeds.
Dear Sudhaama,
A man like you, with such a demanding undertaking, is bound to be in exigency for positive feedback and encouragement. You are most welcome for that, but the pleasure is all mine. :)

Thank you very much for providing the expected answer. :thumbsup:

Believers and Non-Believers both Suffer
Therefore, the rest of information in your reply is absolutely redundant.

Thank you :D

Sudhaama

6th July 2006, 07:57 AM

Rohit

6th July 2006, 11:46 AM

Believers and Non-Believers both Suffer
Therefore, the rest of information in your reply is absolutely redundant.

Thank you :D

Dear Mr Rohit,

I never said so... and if I have said there must be under a context and conditions for it.

....But even then.... rather in ANY CASE... both the persons of opposite approaches, cannot be EQUALLED....

...Nor their Approaches can be the same.... Nor of EQUAL POSITIVE VALUE

That was the statement from an Atheist, about 3 years back, in another Thread,...( I remember well ... who and where... but I don't want drag him here now unnecessarily, because he is out of Hub now-a-days.)

... which I vehemently opposed and justified how two persons of Positive and Negative propensities...

...differently react to Onslaughts of Fate in a discerning manner.

I can further elaborate and justify if you want.

Psychologists and Philosophers speak in One Voice... although their Routes and approaches are different.

That conclution is the ULTIMATE TRUTH.... UNSHAKEABLE...by Positive outlook.

Ramanuja too establishes the same Large-hearted approach of GOD IS LOVE.
...
Dear Sudhaama,
I can understand the reason for your dissonance, but please go to that thread and check it for yourself whether you have said it or not.

Nonetheless, it is a belief that makes a Believer; and whatever Believers have said so far, are saying now and will ever say, were/are/will be based on a belief, which does not and cannot alter the wider and serious implications of the believed principles, irrespective of the context or the condition. That is all I can say to you for now.

Thank you :D :thumbsup:

harishkumar09

20th July 2006, 07:21 PM

Very good posts

gayatri yanamandra

19th October 2006, 11:31 AM

Sudhaama

21st October 2006, 10:03 PM

.
- BEST ADVANTAGE of the Wisdom & SOUL- POWERED ..

...Global Human-Birth... towards their HAPPINESS? How.?

Dear Sudhaama,

Your commitment to maintain Ramanujacharya as the great philosopher and social reformer is, without any question, commendable.

You have briefly touched upon Ramanujacharya's life and the differences between Sankaracharya, Ramanujacharya and Madhwacharya. You have also clarified his stand on some contentious and controversial scriptural issues.

I have searched the entire topic, but couldn't find anything on Ramanujacharya's views on human suffering and the framework he used to explain suffering in general.

May I request you to elaborate on Ramanujacharya's views on human suffering and the framework he used to explain it?

Thank you :)

Ramanujacharya's Counsel to HUMANITY... Salient Factors:--

Ramanujacharya.. being a born Advaithi as the Descendant-disciple of Adhi Sankaracharya... got converted to Visishta-Adhwaitha system of Philosophy... was well-versed in both the Adwaitha and Visishta-Adwaitha Philosophies. Such an extensive and thorough knowledge on both the systems could help him to analyticallly present the Descriptive meanings to several intricate terminologies of Veda, Geetha as well as controversial events in Puranas too.

Consequently such a discerning Analytical-Research Treatise on Brahma-Soothra (Conceptual Gyst of Vedas)... could fetch him the highest honour for his Descriptive-Treatise (Bashyam) as...

... SRI-BASHYAM by the Godess Saraswathi in person at Kashmir... Saraswathi-peetam Temple...

... and NOT .. RAMANUJA-BASHYAM... similar to the parallel honours conferred to the other two Bashyams... by the same deity..

.. as SANKARA-BASHYAM... for the Adwaithic treatise by Sri Sankaracharacharya.. and...

-- MADHWA-BASHYAM...for the Dwaithic treatise by Sri Madhwacharya....

Rather by the Title "Sri-Bashyam" .. Saraswathi meant that it is TOTAL and COMPLETE....

...Since both the other Acharyas have handled only the respective parts of Vedic-terminologies...

... of one amongst the Two Sections...Adwaithic or Dwaithic...

... the DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSITE CONCEPTS of Bedha-Sruthi and Abedha-Sruthi sections...

...While Sri Ramanujacharya... has not left out any sections of Vedic-texts, untouched for description... but in total... even though each such parts of Adwaithic and Dwaithic, are self-contradictory and appears ...INCONSISTENT too, at some texts of Vedas...

And further, the most important truth is...Sri Ramanuja only has taken up the Third-concept of Gataka-Sruthi terminologies of Vedas...

...which both the other Acharyas had left UNTOUCHED...

.. since those Acharyas could not feel it compatible nor comfortable to their respective Theories... of Monism and Dualism...

.. and also might have felt embarassed to describe the Gataka-Sruthi terminologies of Vedas...

... that God is DEPENDANT on his Creations at certain stages...

... similar to a Teacher with the Students, Doctor with the Patients, King with the Subjects...

... [although both are placed in the opposite status as the GIVER and RECEIVERS...

... the Supreme and Sole- Omnipotent (Benefactor) Vs Succourless and Mercy-dependant Creations (Beneficiaries)]

Whereas Ramanuja could handle all the three divergent sections, at ease... based on Visishta-Adwaithic Philosophy...

...the main basis of which is that GOD IS LOVE...like our Parents... Not as Ruler.

Based on the above Concept, Ramanuja could find No difficulty nor embarassment to undisputably answer even the intricate Questions by the several learned Scholars not only amongst his disciples but also of other Schools of philosophy and Religions who challenged the veracity of Ramanuja's stand.

And further, towards the opposite strata of Society... the so called Illiterate downtrodden too... he could convincingly answer to their Questions right from the Scratch Rudiments of Theism like...

Does God exist?.

Why should we believe and Worship God?...

Is it necessary every one should worship God? Can the deputation of Representatives on our behalf, solve our problems?...

If God exists, why so much of disparities and Sufferings in Life?

Why should we seek Salvation...Liberty from Rebirths...Why not make Earth a Paradise?

How to be HAPPIEST IN LIFE...taking the Best Advantage of Human-birth?

He could find it comfortable to answer .. based on Thiruvaaymozhi PRIMARILY... supported by Geetha and Awathara-Puranas Like Ramayana and Mahabharatha

Now let us look into his TEACHINGS TO HUMANITY... imbibed with Universal-Love.

(1) Being endowed with Greatest Intellectual might along with the Freedom of Mind-Power, Human-birth is the Supreme birth... ever on Earth, when compared to other inferior births like Animals, Insects and Worms. And it is the last Birth-opportunity in Kaliyuga to ENJOY MAXIMUM ON EARTH... when compared to other Creatures. So we must not lose this Best opportunity towards our Happiness and Purpose of birth.

(2) God-faith (Theism) is Vital for Humanity... since Human-birth only can take the best advantage of his hidden Soul-power too... the Fourth-power of Greatest might... in addition to Physical, Wisdom and Mind Powers.

(3) All the Several Religions are God-made... suiting to the respective sections of the Global Society...

... and propogated through His Venerable Prophets and so deserve to be mutually respected... with the Human-spirit of Unity under Diversity.

(4) God is One... whether you worship in different forms or shapes and deities... at your own will and choice....

... He is Narayana (Vishnu) who appears to you in the way and form as your Preceptor / Guru has taught you....

... But all the Divine-faiths and Holy-pursuits ultimately reach that One Omnipotent God...

...similar to several Rivers from different directions, sources and paths... ultimately reaching their common destination... the Ocean.

(5) Various Religions or Faiths of God-realisation... are meant for HUMAN-EMANCIPATION... and Advancements only...

...and not for Mutual Quarrel or Disputes

... or annihilation in the name of the Sacred God's paths of diversity...

... God of any Religion or Faith... will never be Happy nor encourage to see His own creations' Suicidal- approach...

...despite their Best opportunity as the MOST INTELLECTUAL HUMAN BIRTH...

... born to UNITEDLY ENJOY and COLLECTIVELY ADVANCE...

... with the Hearty Global Human- Spirit of Universal-Love.

... To Continue.
.

Sudhaama

25th October 2006, 08:59 PM

Hi all

after i read so much abt ramanujacharya, i wanted to share the beautiful krithi on ramanujacharya by annamaya

Gathulanani Kilamaina kaliyuga mandu
gathi ithade chupe ghana guru daivamu..

this is just the pallavi... this krithi throws light on life of ramanujacharya.. all imp aspects of his life..

great work sudhamu garu...
thank you.

Thanks a lot !!!... Gayatri yanamandra, Hats off to you.!!

Will you please post the AUDIO URL of the above Song here, along with the LYRIC and Meaning?

If you are unable... Will you please let me know the source.... so that I can try.

Our Viewers will be happy and thankful to you.

Thanking You,
Sudhaama.
.

gayatri yanamandra

26th October 2006, 01:34 AM

hello sudhama gaaru

thanks for your interest in the krithi.. ill be more than happy to share the krithi and meaning with you..

this krithi was beautifully composed sung by G Balakrishna parasad garu and i think it was accompanied by sri chinna jeeyar swamy garu of ahobalam matt..
his divine voice enhances the beauty of this krithi..

i shall upload the audio file in a day or so..

pallavi:
Gathulani kila maina kaliyuga mandu nu gathi
ithade chupe ghana guru daivamu..

In this age of kaliyuga he is our destiny and he is the guru and god for all us...

charanam1

ithane karuna ney ga ila vaishanavula mithi
ithane valaney kanti ni tirumani ni
ithane upadesaminchenu astakshari mantramu
ithade ramanujulu iha para daivamu..

it is becoz of him we are vaishnavas and he is the one who showed us the tirumani (lord venkateswara) he is the one who gave us the astakshari mantramu ,he is none other than ramanujulu our lord in both worlds..

charanam 2:

valainchey ithadu ga vedapu rahasayamu
chalami ithade chupe saranagathi
nilipi nadu ithadega nija mudra adharmuu
valasi ramanujulu mataladey daivamu..

he gave us the secrets of vedas , showed us the right path
showed us the mudras and he is kind of lord withn whom we can communicate.

charanam 3

niyamamulu ithade ga nilipe parapanulukuu
daya tho mokashambu chupe dhara ithadu
nayame sri venketsawara nagamatey vakkitanu
daya chuchi mamu intey tali thandri diavamu

he is the one who gave all the beings the rules
which can lead us to the path of salvation..
just like lord venketesawara he is our mother, father and god .

this is my understanding of the krithi , pls bear with me if i my wrong..
thanks once again sudhamu garuu for ur interest...

gayatri

Sudhaama

26th October 2006, 08:31 AM

Dear Ms Gayathri,

Glad and Thanks for your prompt and sincere response.

And I am ANXIOUSLY waiting to hear that Song... by your Audio URL... here.

Further herebelow, you can find my Article on Thiruvaaymozhi - 8 of October issue of our Hub Magazine...

... which narrates the backgrounds and the challenging experience of Ramanujacharya to climb over the Thirumala Hills jungle on those days...

... his FIRST ENTRY... about 800 years back.!!

...when there were no paths nor Road nor steps... especially very tough in the Valley (The Photo posted is self-explanatory)..

...especially the Fifth Hill...which gave him Dharsana of Live ADHI-SESHA... and made him bend his Knees and climb further with the knees...

...and further the Miracle played by Lord Venkateswara...!!!

If you cannot read Tamil Script, some of your friends may be able to help you.

http://hubmagazine.mayyam.com/oct06/?t=8027

Please read and comment to me as your Feedback....

... as also all other friends... whatever they may feel... to speak out frankly..

.. I will not mind even the Negative comments and Criticisms.. And will duly reply.

With Best Wishes,
Sudhaama.
.

gayatri yanamandra

26th October 2006, 10:32 AM

hi sudhama garu

here is the link to the krithi..
http://music.cooltoad.com/music/song.php?id=277565

you need to download the krithi from this site ...

hope you ll like it..

gayatri

gayatri yanamandra

27th October 2006, 01:19 AM

hello sudhama garu,

I was not able to read the magazine from the link you gave me, looks like there is error on the page..
though you have outlined the salient features of those wonderful script... would you please be able to summarise the content in english.. whenever you can..
(i really want to know the miracle played by lord venkateswara..)

i hope you have enjoyed the krithi..

thanking you
gayatri

Sudhaama

18th February 2007, 09:05 PM

.
How to be HAPPY and PURPOSEFUL in Human Life.?

.Ramanujacharya's Guidance to GLOBAL HUMANITY:--

Ramanuja's preachings were mainly based on Nammaalwar's THIRUVAAYMOZHI, Bhagwad GEETHA and VISHNU-PURANAM..

... called as Purana-Rathnam, which has been extensively quoted and based upon for their Philosophical conclusions, by Krishna chaithanya, Sankaracharya and Madhwacharya too.

(1) Mankind is the rare Super-creature on Earth endowed with superlative Brain-might and Soul-power, with the support of which, Man only can enjoy the maximum pleasure and utlity of birth when compared to other creatures... innate with only Sub-human propensities.

So, Oh! Man! Make use of your best opportunity for your true advancement and realistic purpose of this birth towards your Ultimate Goal... Liberation from further Re-births.(Mukthi / Moksha / Salvation)

(2) God-faith for Mankind is an Inevitable-must. Such a Spiritual-pursuit may be of any ordained path of diversity of Religions and Sub-Religions as propounded by the authentic Prophets... left to the Radical choice and freedom of the Individual devotee- aspirant concerned.

(3) God is ONE only... He is Lakshmi-Narayana. All other Gods are His manifestations. He is amenable to be treated and addressed by any Name or Form or status, the devotees may choose to ascribe and believe.

(4) All the World Religions are divine since created by the One Supreme God, to suit the varied Tastes, Needs and Assimilation- capacity of the Individuals. And all the Divine-paths lead towards One God only.. similar to all the Rivers ultimately reaching One Ocean.

So none of the other Religions or Divine-paths should be under-rated nor their Prophets decried by others... since created by One common God.

(5) All the Individuals and Segments of Mankind are EQUAL by birth... So no Superiority or Inferiority of Human-status on the basis of Parentage should be practised..

Social discrimination on the basis of birth is not only against the Rudimentary principles of Vedic Spirit .. but also UNETHICAL, INHUMAN and SINFUL.

Conforming to such preaching, he documented the Organisation- Standard Stipulations named "KOYIL-OZHUHU" for conducting the Srirangam Ranganathar Temple.

Accordingly all the Temple Servicemen get EQUAL HONOUR of Parivatta- Mariyaadhai at that Temple...

..irrespective of their Birth-background, Social-status or the Type of service they render.

So to say, the orthodox Brahmin Archaka (Poojari), the Vedic-Scholar chanting Vedas, the Garland-maker named Sathathaar (SC), the Pandal-builder (SC), Pot-maker, and the Dhobi (Washerman) receive equal recognition and honour for their respective varied services.

Such a strict Regulation initiated by Ramanuja about 800 years back, continues in practice even now-a-days.

(6) Amongst the Advanced-creatures, Man is the only creature innate with NO WEAPONLY ORGANS in the Body..

... like fierceful Teeth and Nails or forceful Beating- might or Hitting physical strength for attacking others.

In this respect, one proximate creature to Man, is the Monkey... which is practically the HAPPIEST, most SUCCESSFUL...

... and maximum utilizing its inborn potentialities of Heart and Brain, more than the Physical might.

So Oh Man!.. Are You INFERIOR TO ANIMALS?

.. If you do not know the Art of Living ...

... at least learn it from the exemplary Monkey,

.. the Friend of all Animals and Birds... in addition to its own Kind or Specy

.. resulting in Peaceful ALWAYS HAPPY Life of EASY SUCCESS with the least problems.

.. To continue.
.

smith

22nd March 2007, 02:25 PM

Sudhama,

Ur posts on Udaiyavar are truly remarkable.

There is criticism that he tried to project Lord Vishnu & black out Lord Ganesh in the Vishnu sasranaamam "Shuklam bharatham Vishnum..." thus portraying him to be a fanatic.

Please explain on this.

Though many Udaiyavar followers belive that His Thiirumeni is enshrined in Srirangam Temple, many Vaishnavaite sholars have disputde the claim. They say that it is not mentioned anywhere, even in the Koil ozhugu & also no mention has been made by Manavala Mamunigal, Udaiyavar's ardent follower. They say that a statue has been raised over his mortal remains.

Ur thots on this too, please.

Sudhaama

23rd March 2007, 10:23 AM

.
Shuklaambara dharam SLOKAM: Ramanuja's Fanaticism.?

[quote="smith"]

// Sudhama,... Ur posts on Udaiyavar are truly remarkable.//

Dear Smith ... Thanks for your FEEDBACK and healthy Spirit.

// There is criticism that he tried to project Lord Vishnu & black out Lord Ganesh in the Vishnu sasranaamam "Shuklam bharatham Vishnum..." thus portraying him to be a fanatic. Please explain on this. //

So You mean... the Slokam "SHUKLAAMBARA DHARAM..." is NOT ON VISHNU... but the Prayer meant and intended towards the God Ganesa.!...

Well.. Will you please explain... the meaning of the words VISHNUM... CHATHUR-BUJAM (Four-Hands)...Applicable to Vinayaka?

How it turned and got named as Ganesa-Dhyanam also...

...in addition to its Original true sense of Vishnu-dhyana Slokam... there is a Political History.

After you get clear on this question, I will take up your next question.
.

smith

26th March 2007, 12:08 PM

Actually, I don't remember the contents, but there was an article stating that Shuklam in the sloka referred to Lord Ganesa & there were subsequent debates on that, in this hub.

The inference was that the sloka was actually a prayer on Lord Ganesha, but Ramanuja was a fanatic who wanted that to be erased.

I ( & I suppose, many others) were really pained to see such comments.

It would be wonderful if U can give the true picture.

It is really heartwarming for Udaiyavar followers like me to read such informative information posted on HIM by you.

I request U to post all that U know of Udaiyavar in this hub so that many can benefit.

Sudhaama

27th March 2007, 09:09 AM

[tscii:91afbe5550].
.Shuklaambara dharam... VISHNU DHYANA SLOKA

This Vishnu-dhyana Slokam is a part of VISHNU SAHASRA-NAMAM ... which is a section of Mahabharatha...

...written and recorded by the Lord Ganesa as per the dictation by the sage Vyasa.

But the Sahasra-naamam including this Dhyanna-slokam was composed and chanted by Bheeshma .

... as a reply to the Questions from Yudhishtra.... in front of Lord Krishna.

Meaning :--

Shukla = White-coloured

Ambara-dharam = One who wears the dress.

Vishnum = Vishnu (Him)

Sashi varnam = Moon-like lustred /colored and pleasant- natured

Chathur-bhujam = Four-armed

Prasanna-vadanam = Cheerful / Benefic- faced

Dhyaayaeth = be prayed by Dhyaanam

Sarva-vigna = All Obstacles

Upa-shaanthayae.= Let get clear off… causing Shanthi (Peace).

Ramanujacharya has no hand nor any history of his interference connected with this common prayer...

... addressing Lord Vishnu only... ... applicable for all the Vedic devotees.

He was always defensive, polite and Non-interfering in others affairs and faiths.

...In fact he was sincerely preaching and practicing UNITY UNDER DIVERSITY.
.

[/tscii:91afbe5550]

smith

27th March 2007, 11:40 AM

Thanks a lot for the post, sudhaama.

I have a few doubts :

1. I have read that when Ramanuja was summoned by the king, his disciples took his place & made Udaiayavar escape to melkote. When they were produced before the king, they were asked to sign the proclaimation that Lord Shiva was a greater God than Lord Vishnu & when they refused, they were punished.

Assuming that the above is true, when ramanuja is so large hearted, what prevented his followers also to be so?

I know there is some explaination here which I would like to hear from U.

2. Also I have read that since he was saved by harijans or dalits (as we call them now) from the clutches of robbers when he was returing from delhi to melkote, he "allowed" them to enter the shrine for 3 days in a year.

Now we know that udaiyavar's large heartedness knew no boundaries, if that is the case, why only "the 3 day period?

My intention is not to cast aspersions on the Maha Purusha (Avarai paththi vimarsanam pandrathukku yarukkume thagudi illai geradhu ennodiya abiprayam).

I only want to clear certain misgivings, that's all.

As an ardent udaiyavar devotee, it pains me when certain people cast aspersions.

Also, i wonder why U have stopped posting on Udaiyavar, of late. Please continue to do so. It is of immense benefit & delight to Udaiayavar devotees like me (& I am sure to many others as well).

Sudhaama

28th March 2007, 07:59 AM

.
. King Kulothunga Chozha's RELIGIOUS FANATICISM

Chozha Kings were ardent Saivites... and had highly patronised Saivam...

... but in general they had not hindered nor interfered with their people following other Religious faiths...

... thus encouraged PEACEFUL CO-EXISTENCE.

Whereas the one and only King KULOTHUNGA-CHOZHA- III.... was the only exception....the worst SAIVA-FANATIC.. to forcibly convert his people as well as the other Religious leaders.. as Saivites.

Those who refuse were severely punished.

But to the amaze of one and all... he could not convert his own Vaishnavite Minister NALOORAAN... the ardent disciple of Ramanuja.

Consequently the people were mocking at the King anonimously.. and he felt it as a matter of shame due to his failure in that case only.

But that minister was the so much trustworthy and highly competent executive, the King could not afford to lose... just by causing any displeasure to him.

Naalooraan's stand was that if his Guru Ramanuja agrees and declares that...
... the Lord Siva is supreme over all other Gods... including Vishnu...according to the Gospel VEDAS...

...he would abide by it and get converted to Saivam.

The King took it as a challenge to get such a statement of declaration... signed and authenticated as a permanent document from the All India famous Scholar Ramanuja... the then leading Non-Saivite residing in his country.

But most of the employees in his palace including the King, had never seen that Acharya. Even the few who could identify preferred to hide their knowledge.

During NAALOORAAN's absence...while he had gone to his native village, the King played a secret plan.

In the early morning, the Kings men arrived at Ramanuja's matam at Srirangam... and sought for the Acharya....while he was away for morning bath at Kaveri River.

KOORATHU- AZHWAR, Ramanuja's intimate disciple could smell the wicked-intention of the cruel King... and feared the probable harm to his Acharya... from the well-known Saiva-fanatic hating other faiths.

So he rushed to wear Ramanuja's Saint-robes and came out saying "I am Ramanujacharya... If the King wants me to meet him, well I am prepared to come".

Ramanuja's Guru, PERIA-NAMBI... could foresee the imminent grave danger to the innocent and selfless disciple Koorathu-Azhwar...posing as Ramanuja, due to his high spirit of Sacrifice to save his Guru.. So he too rushed to the Pallanquin introducing him as Ramanuja's Guru... interested to accompany.

Noticing such a sudden turn of circumstances... the Kainkarya-paras... the Ramanuja's Servicemen... rushed out of the matam in full batch and parafernalia... Thiru-chinnam, Chaamarams and Yekkaalam... etc.

... and took their respective positions in front of the palanquin... to pilot their Acharya...

Kattiyam-kaarar in his high-piched voice shouted... the ceremonial Kattiyam...

..."Jaya Vijayee Bhava... Ramanujacharya sreshta mahanubhaava... the Sri-Vaishnava maha Acharya Yathiraja... ... Paraak Paraak."

Because all of them were anxious to rush out... before the real Ramanuja's return from Kaveri.. probable at any moment.

This drama enacted collectively by all concerned... in a hurry within a few minutes... but with a noble intention... made the King's commander believe... that it was the real Ramanuja alongwith his Guru... sitting in the pallanquin..

The convoy started... while the perplexed people were helplessly watching with eerie silence.

In the Urhaiyur Chozha palace... the King straightaway asked Alwar to sign on a Palm-leaf declaration...

...stating SIVAATH- PARADARAM NAASTHI... meaning "There is No other Supreme God over Lord Siva"

The word SIVA has several meanings... one of its various meanings is LORD SIVA.

And one of the other meanings is... UZHAKKU (1/8 Measure) in Tamil.

Alwar being a great scholar meant the word Siva by that different sense... and wrote below the pre-written line as follows...

..."DRONAM ASTHEETHI THADAH PARAM"... and then put the seal of Ramanuja beneath..

By this Alwar meant the Word SIVA by its another meaning.. as "Uzhakku" (1/8 Measure)... and DRONAM = Aazhaakku (1/4 Mesure) which leads to its overall meaning that...

... One-fourth(1/4) is greater than One-Eighth(1/8)... (Lord Siva is totally out of picture.)

The King became furious and forced to accept that as per Vedas.. the Lord Siva is supreme over Vishnu.

Koorathu-Alwar and Peria-Nambi politely and persuasively argued with the Saiva pandits and the King... thus.

(1) We are not interested to denigrate any Vedic gods... be the Siva or any other God... because all the Vedic Gods are the various options available for the varied devotees suiting to their liking and individualities. And since they all are the part of our Holy Scriptures we duly regard all the Gods.

We expect the same spirit from our Ruler King... as well as other Saivites too... on all the Vedic Gods.

(2) If all of you Saivites believe that the God Siva is the supreme... even over the Lord Vishnu... well... you can believe so and follow accordingly. We are not interested to dispute with you, because it is your personal-faith... on which others are not supposed to interfere.

(3) But please do not force us to accept your Personal faith... deviating from our personal faith... since our Sect-faith is different as we follow our Vaishnava-gurus.

(4) Similar to your Ancestor-Kings... as also all other Kings... we expect you our Ruler to protect us equally as much as Saivites... without domination over our personal-faiths and beliefs.

(5) It is NOT CORRECT to say that Vedas declare Siva as the supreme... No Not so... nor it is proper to preach such a false propaganda in the name of Veda... other than your such a personal faith..

Vedas clearly state...

Narayana Para-brahma thathwam = Narayana is the Supreme God by Principle and Mights ..

Narayana paraha = Narayana is the Supreme Ruler over all other Gods....

Narayana Paro-jyothi = Narayana is the Supreme graceful Jothi imparting Grace- light to other God-Jothis..

Aathman Narayana paraha = Narayana is the Paramaathma- Omnipotent.

Yacha kinchith jagad sarvam drusyathae srooyathepi vaa, anthar bahischa thath sharvam vyaapya Naraayana sthithaha =

= whichever be objects or things even the tiniest in the Universe... either audible or visible... within all such ones...as also externally, the Lord Narayana is all pervasive... stable, permanent and eternally... true to the meaning of His another name VISHNU.

All the various Gods are the creations by ONE AND THE ONLY Supreme God... Narayana.... as stated categorically by Vedas and Upanishads undoubtedly.

Saivite pundits could not disprove such Gospel-statements...

Then the King interfered and passed a judgement that both these Vaishavites are Raja-drohi (Traitors to the King)...

.. be made BLIND by Sharp hot-rods... as the due punishment... It was carried out immediately.

Guru Peria-nambi... the aged man, could not bear the cruel brunt of the hot-rod piercing the eyes and so died immediately.

The blinded Kooraththu Alwar returned silent to Srirangam... was received by a large crowd.. weaping, lamenting and crying aloud...

But the Alwar consoled them and cried aloud... shedding Bloody-tears... WITH JOY...

..."Oh God, Thank you... You have saved my Great Guru Ramanuja Acharya... from this INHUMAN CALLOUSNESS AND CRUELTY.!!...

... received right from our Protector King...just because of different God-faith...

...Is it our CRIME to be Vaishnava... a NON-SAIVITE? "
.

Sudhaama

1st April 2007, 02:49 AM

.
Ramanuja-Acharya was not aware of all these sudden turn of events...

... occurred even before DAY DAWN...

.. since he was away at Kaveri River for early morning bath.
.

Sudhaama

2nd April 2007, 10:35 AM

.
PERIA-NAMBI Ramanuja-Acharya's Guru... volunteered to join with KOORATHU- AZHWAR...
...just to share with his heavy task of facing the SAIVITE-FANATIC Kulothunga Chozha King.

Only because they did not agree to become Saivites...

...both of those Scholars were victimised by the King.. to be made BLIND... by piercing Hot Rods..

.. which Tyranny PERIA NAMBI, Ramanuja's Guru could not bear...

.. and he immediately died after inexplicable suffering and agony.

. ... at his old-age... 105.
.

Sudhaama

7th April 2007, 10:38 PM

.
. Ramanuja's UNIQUE SERVICES to Mankind.

// Thanks a lot for the post, sudhaama.//

Thanks for your Healthy Comments and Feedback.

// I have a few doubts :

1. I have read that when Ramanuja was summoned by the king, his disciples took his place & made Udaiayavar escape to melkote. When they were produced before the king, they were asked to sign the proclaimation that Lord Shiva was a greater God than Lord Vishnu & when they refused, they were punished.

Assuming that the above is true, when ramanuja is so large hearted, what prevented his followers also to be so?

I know there is some explaination here which I would like to hear from U.//

Now I hope You are clear about the True-event... as per my narrative posting

// 2. Also I have read that since he was saved by harijans or dalits (as we call them now) from the clutches of robbers when he was returing from delhi to melkote, he "allowed" them to enter the shrine for 3 days in a year.//

This is radically a Cheap and False-Story. I will post the True-event soon.

// Now we know that udaiyavar's large heartedness knew no boundaries, if that is the case, why only "the 3 day period?//

Ramanuja's greatness is that he used to value and honour the views, faiths and sentiments of each and all the sections of the society.

So although he could convince one and all the opponents to Temple-Entry by the THIRU-KULATHOR (Harijans)...

.. he did not like to force them to accept for the whole year... valuing their sentiments.

So initially he made it as Only one day in a year as the First phase.. then improved it to 3 days... as the second Phase.

Parallelly, the other side... the Harijans, were contented with 3 days in a year, because they feared that the Sanctity of the Temple may be vitiated due to their unorthodoxy..

....eventually adding up to their sins.

Ramanuja's Preachings were :--

(1) Devotion to God is a must for every Human-being irrespective of Caste or any such segmentation of the Society.

(2) Prayer and Worship must be performed directly also... without confining it to the representatives conducting on others behalf... be he a King or a Rich man or a highly Learned Scholar.

(3) Mutual-Love amongst the Devotees is the primary requisite... prior to offering worship or prayer to God...

...since God does not allow nor pardon anybody harbouring hatred or neglect of other devotees of any status..

...from any individual devotee... however great he/she may be in other respects.

In brief...GOD IS LOVE...like the Parents... more than a RULER.!
.

smith1

31st July 2007, 01:11 PM

Sudhaama,

I have a few more questions on Sri ramanuja.

1. Some scholars have said that ramanuja lived only upto the age of 80 years & not 120 years as is commonly beleived.

2. Regarding his sannadhi at srirangam, is it that the body was interned & an image raised above it or is it his actual body that has been placed for darshan?

Sudhaama

1st August 2007, 03:11 AM

.
.Ramanuja still alive as FLESHY IDOL.!!..God-made.!!!.

Dear Friend "smith1",

Sudhaama,

I have a few more questions on Sri ramanuja.

1. Some scholars have said that ramanuja lived only upto the age of 80 years & not 120 years as is commonly beleived.

Ramanujacharya was born in the year 1017 A.D ... Tamil-Year PINGALA ... Month : CHITHIRAI... Birth Star: THIRUVADHIRAI (Arudra)

He lost his last breathe in the Year 1137... Tamil Year PINGALA... Month : CHITHIRAI... Demise-Star : THIRUVADHIRAI (Arudra).

Now you can arrive at the true Arithmatical figure of his Life-time duration... Is it 120 Years ? Or just 80 years?

2. Regarding his sannadhi at srirangam, is it that the body was interned & an image raised above it or is it his actual body that has been placed for darshan?

Immediately after Ramanuja breathed the last, the Asareeri -commandment (Invisible Divine Voice) from Lord Ranganatha, could be heard by one and all in the Temple...

(1) "Ramanuja is None else than the ADI-SESHA (holy-Serpent of Maha-Vishnu at Vaikunta-loka)...

(2) He is the UDAYAVAR..(Owner of both the Worlds viz Vaikunta and Bhooloka- Earth and...

... he will rule over the the rest of the Kaliyuga period in the Idol-shape named THAANAANA-THIRUMENI..

...in his present body form of Flesh and Bones... unaffected eternally...

He will be the Protector for those who worship him and follow his Preachings.

(3) So the Acharya's Thirumeni/ Body should not be disposed off, but honourably installed in a separate Sannidhi within my Temple premises...

... and duly worshipped by his Disciples and Devotees... who repose faith in me....

..Because he is my Glorious Godly-Servant of mine at both the worlds.

(4) Whoever believes and worships Ramanuja... will be fully taken care of by me...

...and ultimately granted Moksha / Mukthi / Liberation from further Rebirths.

Accordingly it was carried out by his Disciples.

While there was an Muslim -invasion on the whole of South India, including Ranganatha Temple, to loot its wealth...

...each Vaishnava-Acharya of that time, volunteered to share amongst themselves, the several tasks to protect the Temple, Deities Moolavar / Uthsavar, including this Ramanuja's Shrine.

One of such Acharyas, Swami Desika took up personal commitment to save all the Moolavars, including this Ramanuja's Thirumeni.

Along with his team of followers and devotees, he built up overnight Camouflage walls covering up Ranganatha Moolavar Sannidhi as well as all such Sannidhis, including this Ramanuja-Moolavar's.

He made Duplicate Moolavars for every Sannidhi... posing deceptive looks...

...including Ramanuja's Sannidhi... in another Sannidhi structure fastly raised up in front of the original Ramanuja behind....

A Duplicate Statue made of Wax and Clay was installed in that dubious Sannidhi.

...while the Original Ramanuja's body was smeared by SAANDHU-KAPPU.. a Variety herbal-mix paste...

...to protect the Human Skin by any probable attack of Germs and Anaerobic Bacteria, under coverage in darkness.

As expected, the Muslim Invaders attacked and destroyed all such Duplicate Idols... believing them to be the Originals...

...including Ramanuja's Duplicate idol made by Swami Desika, overnight.

Srirangam whole town, including the Temple, was under the Muslim Invaders rule for about 8 years,

...and later on when it was got extricated back to the Hindu's custody such Camouflage Structures were cleared off, duly reopening all the Original Sannidhis...

...and the customary Vedic poojas and services were restored... by the Hindus then.

But they feared to scrape out the protective Herbal-paste on Ramanuja's body... which action may probably cause pains or any Skin Injury or Damage to the Holy Ramanuja-Moolavar, alive.

Furtheron it has become an Half-Yearly Festival... so called SAANDHU-KAAPU UTHSAVAM...

...to re-apply such Herbal pastes repeatedly over and over.

Besides, there was one more reason. Several bitter experiences in such other holy Hindu shrines, were Lessons to them.

For example, on his last day, Jothi Ramalinga Swami entered a small room at Vadalur after strictly advising his followers, that he was leaving the Earth ultimately...

... and Nobody should open the room for ever in future.

Whereas after a few weeks of the Swamis entry into the room locked up from inside,

...some of his Opponents and Enemies lodged Complaints to the Collector, raising doubts..

...that the Swami had committed Suicide by hanging secretly within the room

Consequently the Locks were broken and the Room was forcibly opened by the British Collector...

...but found the whole room Empty. ! ... It has No Windows or Ventilators !!

..which truth made them realise that Jothi Ramalinga Swami is a Mahaan who had reached Sivaloka..

...by totally disappearing from the World... along with his Body and Dress too... MIRACULOUSLY.!!

So the Ramanuja's disciples did not want to take chances by any such probable future Enemies.

So they wanted to continue in that same deceptive look as if it is just a man-made Sculpture.

There are several stories and episodes on this matter.

Even this posting may be disputed by some on its authenticity.

But this is the Truth... although cannot be proved on its veracity.

Ramanuja's skin only has been protected... but not the Flesh and bones.

The whole body is still in unaffected shape and Life even after about 860 years.

So we strongly believe that ...

.. as the whole-hearted Well-wisher for the entire Global Humanity, irrespective of the multi-facted faiths...

...alongside the Glorious Emancipater of Mankind... on the purpose of Earthly birth...

...the Great Ramanuja... is still alive in His THAANAANA- THIRUMENI... at Srirangam...

...as the currently LIVING GOD on Earth...

... for those who BELIEVE SO.
.

smith1

1st August 2007, 08:34 PM

[tscii:4280ec3a63]Thanks, sudhama. The vedintha desika episode was news to me.

I read in the net thus :

The traditional biographies of Ramanuja place his life in the period of 1017–1137, yielding a lifespan of 120 years. However, the unusual length and roundness of this lifetime has led scholars to propose that Ramanuja was born 20–60 years later, and died as many as 20 years later than the traditional dates.

Any chronology depends crucially on the major historical event mentioned in the traditional biographies: the persecution of Vaishnavas under the Chola king Kulothunga and Ramanuja's subsequent 12-year exile in Melkote, in Karnataka.

In 1917, T. A. Gopinatha Rao proposed a chronology based on the traditional lifetime of 1017–1137.

He identified the Chola king with Kulothunga Chola I (reigned 1070-1120), and dated the exile to Melkote from 1079 to 1126 CE (Rao 1923 cited in Carman 1974:45).

However, this would extend the period of exile to 47 years, and in any case, Kulothunga I was not known for being an intolerate Shaivite.

A different chronology was proposed by T. N. Subramanian, an official in the Madras government (Subramanian 1957 cited in Carman 1974:45).

This chronology identifies the Chola king with Kulothunga Chola II, who reigned from 1133–50 and was known for his persecution of Vaisnavites. It puts Ramanuja's exile from c. 1137 to 1148.

Subramanian's hypothesis is aided by a fragment from the late Tamil biography Rāmānujārya Divya Caritai, which states that Ramanuja completed his most important work, the Śrībhāṣya, in 1155–56.

Nevertheless, temple inscriptions in Karnataka indicate the presence of Ramanuja and his disciples before 1137. Carman (1974:45) hypothesizes that the traditional biographers conflated two different visits to Mysore into one. This later chronology has been accepted by several scholars, yielding a tentative lifetime of 1077–1157.

Hence my doubt regarding his age.

Regarding the thirumeni, some of my friends said that if it were indeed Ramanauja's body per se, it would have been mentioned in the koil olugu. It has not been done so.
[/tscii:4280ec3a63]

smith1

1st August 2007, 08:41 PM

I have had the good fortune of worshipping all the 3 thirumenis of Udaiyavar.

In fact the say I went to to Srirangam this year, I was told that the 'sandhana kaappu" was to be performed 3 days later.

Seems it is performed twice a year. The sannadhi is closed during the "thirumanjanam" & opened only after it is complete.

I also had the privelege of worshipping Udaiyavar on his Jayanthi in 2004 at Sriperumbudur.

I request U to post more on Udaiyavar for the benefit of everyone.

Ur posts have been extremely educative, informative & fulfilling.

Sudhaama

1st August 2007, 09:24 PM

.
.SAANDHU KAAPU UTHSAVAM at Srirangam Temple.

Dear "smith1",

Thanks for your lively postings and meaningful questions, enabling me to post the intricate details.

In fact I feel enthused to post more interesting facts...

... due to such wise and pertinent questions...

...from any of our Hubber friends... Globally.

Welcome.

....... I was told that the 'sandhana kaappu" was to be performed 3 days later.

Seems it is performed twice a year. The sannadhi is closed during the "thirumanjanam" & opened only after it is complete.

I request U to post more on Udaiyavar for the benefit of everyone.

Ur posts have been extremely educative, informative & fulfilling.

It is not CHANDHANA-KAAPU... but SAANDHU-KAPU... so to say... a SAANDHU / Paste made from several Herbs are applied over the previously applied existing coatings...

...during the so called SAANDHU KAPU UTHSAVAM... periodically conducted only at Srirangam Ranganathar Temple...

... to protect the THAANAANA THIRUMENI.

I am not sure... whether it is performed Annually or Half-Yearly.

Our Well-Knowledged Friend (Moderator) Mr Badri knows better on this point.

Dear Mr. Badri... Please clarify.. Is it an Annual or Half-Yearly Celebration?
.
.

Badri

2nd August 2007, 05:07 AM

It is done twice a year. A mixture of camphor and saffron and other herbs is made into a paste and applied over the tanana thirumeni, which explains why it has an orangish hue.

P_R

2nd August 2007, 02:38 PM

As always, very interesting posts Sudhaama and smith.

When we went to Srirangam last year we asked about the idol to the Archakar there (since I had also heard that it was Ramanuja himself). The Archakar said that, after hie breathed his last, Ramanuja was interred and then he rose in his present form (like a Swayambu) with the asareeri announcing his resurrection.

One of such Acharyas, Swami Desika took up personal commitment to save all the Moolavars, including this Ramanuja's Thirumeni. I read somewhere that when the invasion happened, Vedanta Desikar took charge of the works of Vaishnavite philosophy, that remained unfinished at the time of Ramanujar's demise and took them with him (to Kanchipuram?), to work on the translations and commentary. And MaNavALa MAmunigaL , along with a Vijayanagar chieftain ensured the safe transportation of the moolavar of the temple.

This was offered by the author as one of the possible root for the sectarian split. One sect claiming lineage to those who undertook to great physical risks to protect the idol, while the other chose an 'easier' path. While the other sect stressed that saving the philosophical works was the bigger contribution.

Perhaps, at some time you deem appropriate to the flow of this thread, you can tell us something about what actually happened at the time of the invasion.

smith1

2nd August 2007, 05:14 PM

Prabhu,

I beg to differ here. Either the idol is ramanuja himself or else it is a wax image interned over his remains.

I have not heard about your version at all.

Also, vedanta desika lived from 1269 to 1370.
Manavala mamunigal was born only in 1370.

smith1

2nd August 2007, 05:18 PM

Pillai Lokacarya lived all his life in the great temple of Srirangam. When the temple was raided by Muslims in 1309, tradition says that he walled in large images and took the smaller images to a village for their safety.

P_R

2nd August 2007, 06:05 PM

Prabhu,
I have not heard about your version at all. :-) Me neither, till the archakar gave this explanation last year when I went to Srirangam.

Also, vedanta desika lived from 1269 to 1370.
Manavala mamunigal was born only in 1370. Hmmm....guess I goofed. Perhaps I am confusing between MaNavALa MAmunigaL and PiLLai LOkachAryAr. :oops:

The theory that I cam across was from a book about the Origin of Two Sects - a TTD publication. Authored by a lawyer sometime in the pre independence era.
Sorry I am unable to quote the source exactly.

Sudhaama

2nd August 2007, 09:18 PM

.

When we went to Srirangam last year we asked about the idol to the Archakar there (since I had also heard that it was Ramanuja himself). The Archakar said that, after hie breathed his last, Ramanuja was interred and then he rose in his present form (like a Swayambu) with the asareeri announcing his resurrection.

(1) I am sorry we are overstretching the matter.. violating the Secret Code of practice... strictly being adopted by the Disciples of Ramanuja.

As I have already mentioned, quoting the bitter experience of the Mahan Jothi Ramalinga Swamis case, Ramanuja's followers purposively maintain it as a Secret. So No more discussions please on the Material substance of the Ramanuja Moolavar at Srirangam.

However for the sake of the Acharya's followers.. I highlight here one interesting point.

The Tamil terminology... THAAN AANA THIRUMENI... must clarify all the doubts... which glorifies the holy Moolavar as the worshipful Great.

Let us leave at that.

........................

One of such Acharyas, Swami Desika took up personal commitment to save all the Moolavars, including this Ramanuja's Thirumeni. I read somewhere that when the invasion happened, Vedanta Desikar took charge of the works of Vaishnavite philosophy, that remained unfinished at the time of Ramanujar's demise and took them with him (to Kanchipuram?), to work on the translations and commentary. And MaNavALa MAmunigaL , along with a Vijayanagar chieftain ensured the safe transportation of the moolavar of the temple.

This was offered by the author as one of the possible root for the sectarian split. One sect claiming lineage to those who undertook to great physical risks to protect the idol, while the other chose an 'easier' path. While the other sect stressed that saving the philosophical works was the bigger contribution.

Perhaps, at some time you deem appropriate to the flow of this thread, you can tell us something about what actually happened at the time of the invasion.

You are confusing yourselves with Amavasai and Abdul kadar... So to say with unconnected factors. The cause of Sectarian split is radically a different subject altogether unconnected with this event of Muslim invasion.

At that time there were NO TWO SRI-VAISHNAVA SECTS... but all One, including Swami Desikar.

It has been proved in the Court of Law categorically and UNDISPUTABLY... in case of Srirangam temple.

Swami Desika took charge of personal custody of Sri-Bhashyam Original Palm-leaf text of Ramanuja, even before the Hindu Temple invasions by foreigners...

..while there was a constant threat from some Jains and Buddhist Kings.

But it is not correct to say... that Ramanuja left any of his works incomplete.

As I already said... immediately on hearing the news of advancement of the Foreign-invaders forces towards Srirangam, all the Sri Vaishnava Acharyas called for a meeting and discussed amicably on the due Protective and Defense measures.

Apart from the subsequent Defensive military counter-fights by the Ranganatha devotees... they protected the Idols Moolavars and Uthsavars under different custodies... well in advance... OVERNIGHT...

...by the selfless toil of the thousands of united devotees at Srirangam.

Pillai-Lokacharya took charge of Ranganatha Uthsavar... called Nam-perumal and carried with him out of the temple. It is a pathetic episode how he sacrificed his life for it.

...those invaders' main target used to be the Hindu Temple Uthsavars...

...on which they took Sadistic- pleasure to denigrate them by using as the Footsteps for their places of worship.

Swami Desika took charge of all the Moolavars and protected them as already detailed hereabove.
.

P_R

2nd August 2007, 09:29 PM

Dear Sudhaama, Thank You.

But it is not correct to say... that Ramanuja left any of his works incomplete. :oops: Just some careles reading (quoting) and writing on my part. I was just motivated by curiosity is knowing the history, that is all. Hope I did not come across as being disrespectful regarding this or anywhere else in my post.

smith1

3rd August 2007, 09:20 PM

Sudhaama,

I read that Udaiyavar tried to bring abt reforms in temple worship in kerala but was prevented from doing so by the kerala priests & even threatened.

Similarly in Puri Jagannath temple.

Is it true?

The reason for my above posting is not to pass judgement or cast aspersions on Udaiyavar.

I am only concerned that such news posted on the net do not misguide viewers.

Hence I am asking for a clarification.

smith1

3rd August 2007, 09:30 PM

Regarding his idol at Sriperumbudur, it is called "thaan ugandha thirumeni" (the idol liked by him).

I also read that he breathed life into the idol & as it was being installed at Sriperumbudur, his body started weakening.

Is that correct, Sudhamaji?

I make it a point to meditate for a few minutes in the Srirangam sannadhi of Udaiyavar whenever I go there.

I find scores of people doing so. Many persons have told me that the postive vibrations emanating from Udaiyavar have had a rejuvenating effect on them. I could feel that too.

A friend of mine travels from thanjavur to srirangam once every 6 months just to meditate there. It says it is spiritually enlightening.

I suppose quite a few hubbers would have experinced that too.

Sudhaama

4th August 2007, 02:10 AM

.

.Ramanuja's services.. Kerala, Poori, Sree-Koormam

Sudhaama,

I read that Udaiyavar tried to bring abt reforms in temple worship in kerala but was prevented from doing so by the kerala priests & even threatened.

Similarly in Puri Jagannath temple.

Is it true?

The reason for my above posting is not to pass judgement or cast aspersions on Udaiyavar.

I am only concerned that such news posted on the net do not misguide viewers.

Hence I am asking for a clarification.

Bhagawad Ramanuja the Awathara of Adi-sesha was sent to Earth by the Parandhaama Narayana...

...to set right the Battle-like Living Conditions of Mankind...

...and inculcate the Humane spirits and Soul-realisation.....

...especially by the Devotional approach of the... WHOLE GLOBAL HUMANITY...

...irrespective of Religious differences, Social disparities and Political boundaries.

He never interfered with the other Religions and Faiths... nor criticised them in any manner...

... even as Secondary to Vaishnavam... and that Vishnu-bhakthi is the Supreme-path of devotion...

But he only preached to one and all the Commonman of the Society... to believe God in some form...

...and to follow anyone path propounded by any Acharya of the devotees choice.

Whereas to his disciples... he preached the Greatness of Sri-Vaishnavam... the overall true picture of Vedic sense...

...and for the Questions and Doubts raised to him on God and mundane Life... he clarified all the doubts..

...with the underlying spirit of UNIVERSAL-LOVE...

...coupled with SOCIAL UNITY... and GLOBAL PEACE.

So his Main Scope and Intention was... Not to propogate SRIVAISHNAVAM...

... nor thrust HIS PHILOSOPHIC GOSPEL Visishtadwaitham... on the Non-Seekers...

....unlike all other Acharyas...

...but to emancipate the Humanity availing the abundant divine options available towards the purpose of Human-birth.

He was receiving time to time Divine-instructions from the Lord Narayana...

....and was closely guided and assisted by the Lord Garuda-deva during some of his worst ordeals.

While no doubt the whole Bharatha... so called India... is a Punya-bhoomi...

...Kerala-desa... created anew by the Chiranjeevi Narayana- awathara, called Parasurama... is ever-believed as the God's Land...

...visited by Lord Vamana on their New Years day... every year...

...and in that Vishnu-bhoomi, all the different Gods in their temples are the manifestations of One God... Narayana...

...as propounded by the Great Adi-Sankaracharya.

So all the Gods take care of them.

During Ramanuja's era... after Sankara's era... once there was a decline of proper conduct of Poojas and Orthodox customs stipulated by the Vedic order...

...which culminated in the fast Epidemic spread of Cholera... in the Thiruvangoor region... causing heavy amount of rapid deaths en masse.

Such a sudden onslaught on the people... made an awakening amongst all concerned as well as the Ruler King too...

So they did their best to revive the tradition and set right their failures and setbacks.

At one stage... when they found that such a Social disaster was rising uncontrollably...radically unabated in some regions...

...inspite of their strenuous endeavour... within the bounds of all their mights...

... some people approached Ramanuja and invited him to set his Holy feet there... so that the sins caused by anyone inadvertently... may be pardoned by God.

Accordingly Ramanuja visited Thiruvananthapuram temple and prayed to Lakshmi and Padmanabha... shedding tears... to grace pardon to the innocent people of Kerala.

With the result, Lord Padmanabha answered his prayers immediately... and the Kerala people got their heavy blow of sufferings mitigated miraculously.

Thiruvangoor King duly honoured Bhagawad Ramanuja.

Then the Acharya left the place and visited other Kerala Divya-desas.. so called MALAI NAATTU THIRUPATHIGALH sung by Alwars.

It is not correct to say that Ramanuja tried to preach his Theory... competing over Sankara's Theory....

...and that he was driven out of Kerala by the Adwaithi devotees there.

No. Not at all. Kerala people although mostly Adwaithi followers of Sankaracharya... used to feel like-minded with Ramanuja's disciples too...

... because both the entities are Vaishnavites after all... although different by Philosophic approaches.

At Poori... no doubt the King duly honoured him... where the Acharya introduced many reforms especially the famous Car (Thaer) festival... developing over the lines of the King's wishes.

Ramanuja found fault with the system of poojas conducted at the Poori temple... violating the system of Vishnu-Samhitha... already stipulated by the Sankaracharya.

So he corrected them to properly follow their Guru Sankaracharya's stipulations on the Temple Poojas and Festivals order.

But the local people at Poori... got enchanted by the Ramanuja's daily discourses... and fastly became his disciples en masse.

This sweeping trend caused a fear and jealousy in the minds of some local Adwaithi Gurus...

...who decided to secretly abduct and kill Ramanuja... overnight.

While Ramanuja along with his assistants were asleep at midnight... his Mutt was surrounded by the miscreants holding deadly weapons, as directed by such wicked Gurus...

Then a Miracle happened !!... When the violent attackers forcibly entered the mutt... Ramanuja was found sleeping there... but suddenly disappeared.!..

...both the visions of presence and disappearance winessed by not only all the people in the mutt, but also the Rowdy Gang.

All of them got puzzled.!!

When Ramanuja woke up at the subsequent pre-dawn hours... he found himself lying solitarily, on the banks of the Temple Tank at Sri-Koormam... of Andhra.

He wondered and prayed to God... why and who brought him there.?

Smilingly Garuda-deva appeared and told that it was He who lifted him out of Poori-mutt...

... narrated the violent background there while the Acharya was ignorantly and innocently asleep.

.. and that he was urgently needed to solve a local dispute at Sree-Koormam temple

Accordingly Ramanuja solved the tough dispute at Sree-Koormam temple, easily and quite amicably.

It is another interesting Episode.
.

smith1

6th August 2007, 03:39 PM

Sudhama,

Thank you for the illuminating posts. Please continue.

I have also heard that Udaiyavar nominated women successors to the various mutts. But over the years that has been diluted. What is the reason?

Vaz

7th August 2007, 09:35 PM

Dear Mr Sudhaama,

It is good to have you in this Hub along with some other very knowledgeable persons...

Thanks for your very valuable posts.

Please carry on so that we can learn more and more and more from such Great Beings!

Sudhaama

8th August 2007, 05:49 AM

.
.INVITED to ENJOY Reading.! and COMMENT Please.!!

Those who can read Tamil... are invited to read my Serial Article :

...THAMIZH MARHAI THIRUVAAYMOZHI... in our Hub Monthly Magazine.

...which is written with a Broad-outlook... in the true Sense and Spirit of Thiruvaaymozhi...

...in a NON-SECTARIAN Approach... acclaimed to be QUITE INTERESTING to even any common man... as per Feedback so far.

Being a very simple style... coupled with several stories or events related to the Topic.. it must be interesting to you too.

Invariably each Article of the month contains some Life-episodes, Events and Stories of Ramanuja too... in relation to the Topic.

With matching Pictures and Audio URLs... I believe... YOU ALL WILL LIKE IT.

Am I correct?... Is it interesting to You?... Any Doubts and Comments are Welcome.

I am anxious to reply.... WELCOME Please.

August 07 issue.
http://hubmagazine.mayyam.com/aug07/?t=10166

Thanking you with Best Wishes...

Affectionately.... Your SUDHAAMA.
.

smith1

21st August 2007, 12:18 PM

sudhama,
I am unable to read the font in Ur serial article.

Request U to post updates on Udaiyavar in this forum itself.

Sudhaama

21st August 2007, 08:30 PM

.
.Homely Food.. and Restaurant Foods.!!

sudhama,
I am unable to read the font in Ur serial article.

Request U to post updates on Udaiyavar in this forum itself.

Dear Smith1,

Have you Clicked... TAMIL FONT HELP...?...

...and Downloaded MURASU ANJAL Tamil Font.?

This Forum in English... I handle in a different angle, in the general perspective...

... under the common aspect of SOCIAL-PURVIEW mostly..

...while superficially touching other aspects.

Whereas under my Tamil Article Serial...

...THAMIZH MARHAI THIRUVAAYMOZHI... of our Hub Magzine..

...You can find more interesting Reading-matter with matching lively Pictures and Audios...
...alongside the unique presentations of the Text in a light style... with Narrations of Stories, Anecdotes, Events and Episodes...

...important Life-codes, Morals, Doubts on Life, Rudiments on God, Purpose of Human-birth on Earth, and Dilemmas on practical Life-Problems... etc.

...in the Global Human-sense...

... applicable to any Common-man, irrespective of Religion and Nationality or any such boundaries.

It includes Ramanujacharya's Biography too... invariably in each monthly issue.

It has been appreciated and received well by many so far.

And so I am sure You also will like reading it.

Please try once again to get the Font.. Read and Comment.

... Welcome.!!! ENJOY READING.!!!

August 07 issue.
http://hubmagazine.mayyam.com/aug07/?t=10166

Whereas here, in this Forum let us all DISCUSS...

...MUTUAL-EXCHANGE of Knowledge, Thoughts, Opinions and Conclusions...

..as also Doubts and Questions if any.... for which I will try to reply.

In brief... that Tamil Article under Hub-Magazine is a HOMELY FOOD...

...prepared by a Mother and served to her Family-members and Guests.

While this Forum is a RESTAURANT... where the Foods are prepared by several cooks...

...and served according to the SEEKERS' CHOICE and Preferences.!!
.

Sudhaama

2nd September 2007, 04:01 AM

.
. Repayment of Gratitude.?.. !!

Thanks a lot for the post, sudhaama. I have a few doubts :

// 1. I have read that when Ramanuja was summoned by the king, his disciples took his place & made Udaiayavar escape to melkote. When they were produced before the king, they were asked to sign the proclaimation that Lord Shiva was a greater God than Lord Vishnu & when they refused, they were punished //..

Incorrect and Distorted Version... denigrating the Seers so Cheap.

The True Episode... exemplary for Selfless approach of the Acharya and the Disciples... caught unaware at a critical moment.... I have already posted.

Further if any you have to ask... please speak out. Welcome.

//Assuming that the above is true, when ramanuja is so large hearted, what prevented his followers also to be so?

I know there is some explaination here which I would like to hear from U.//

I do not follow...What you mean.!

What is meant by Large-Heartedness.?.. To declare a False statement as True... contrary to Vedas?

Should the Acharya or his Disciples obediently bow down to the commands of the King and declare any Untruth as Truth?

// 2. Also I have read that since he was saved by harijans or dalits (as we call them now) from the clutches of robbers when he was returing from delhi to melkote, he "allowed" them to enter the shrine for 3 days in a year.

Now we know that udaiyavar's large heartedness knew no boundaries, if that is the case, why only "the 3 day period?

My intention is not to cast aspersions on the Maha Purusha (Avarai paththi vimarsanam pandrathukku yarukkume thagudi illai geradhu ennodiya abiprayam).

I only want to clear certain misgivings, that's all.

As an ardent udaiyavar devotee, it pains me when certain people cast aspersions.//.

There was no such event... confronting Robberers by Ramanuja on the way to Delhi.

Even if it were true... why should the Acharya repay his Gratitude by just allowing the Harijans in the Temple at Melkote.?

Better they could have been rewarded by Wealth and Properties... which the Mysore King would have granted... on the Udayavar's commands.

Whereas in another case... while Ramanuja in exile... enroute to Melnadu (Mysore state) from Srirangam in Chozha-desam...

...not to get caught by the chasing Chozha warriors... (on the commands of the Fanatic Sadist Kulothunga King.)

...had to stay hiding their whole convoy entourage for a few nights at different Hamlets of Tamilian Aboriginals... callously downtrodden ... rotting amidst the thick jungle.

Those Aboriginals named PARAYAS and CHANDALAS... the Debarred citizens of Chozha-Nadu... being the Loyalists of the erstwhile Kings defeated...

Those evicted innocent citizens held high status during the previous regimes... regarded highly and Trusted Direct-Assistants of Kings... being Ministers, Military Commanders, Spies and Suicide Squad-members... etc.

...directly dealing with the previous Kings as their Trustworthy Patriots of the Kingdom.

When Ramanuja had to stay within their Hamlets... they avoided meeting him...

...because they SELF-DENIGRATED themselves as the Worst Sinners, being the Untouchables...

...while the Acharya was the Divine birth.

Ramanuja could have just kept hiding silently... without any other activity there... other than his purpose of visit.

But he took it as the best God-given opportunity to have a close rapport with the downtrodden and understanding the Real situation.

He went in search of them... called for the congregation of all the Residents to one Hut-Assembly...

..and had free exchange of discussions on Facts, Thoughts and News.

He felt not only much pained to see their pathetic ordeal.. and Sub-human Animal-like Living- condition...

...due to the autocratic INHUMAN TREATMENT meted out by the so-called Protector-Kings, the Rulers..

...to an INNOCENT & BLOTLESS section of exemplary Good people deserving Glory.!...

...and also surprised to know of their Self-denigrative attitude... considering themselves as unqualified to mingle with the Overall Society.

Ramanuja broke such a False-belief... unfounded by any Religious Doctrine or Social-Law... and convinced them to raise themselves up by means of his support.

He advised them not to return to their Original country Chozha-Nadu... where they are unwanted and evicted Aboriginals...

...but to make their living in the adjacent Melnadu... after hearing from him in the near future.

Accordingly, as soon as Ramanuja stabilised his position well with the Mysore King...

...with his consent, Ramanuja got all the Tamilian-aboriginals... shifted to Mysore Region and got them well-settled there...

...providing adequate means for Living, Well-being and Human-dignity... at par with the other local citizens.

Then as the next step... after getting over all sorts of Obstacles and Objections from the King and Pandits...

...as also the RELUCTANCE OF THE DOWNTRODDEN... being disinterested in Bhakthi cult...

..alongside their Fear that they may become the Worst Sinners... by means of their Temple-entry... since the Sanctity might be vitiated by the untouchables close contacts...

Ramanuja took them into the Temple... after convincing on the true sense of Humanity in the United Society of sorts...

...and inculcating in them the Devotional spirit of God-faith... and Social Integrity.

Ramanuja categorically asserted.... that the Primary duty of One and all...is the...

..Humane Spirit of Social-Equanimity plus God-faith... without exception.
.

Sudhaama

27th October 2007, 05:18 AM

[tscii:3ddeb9a93b].
"Why should we worship God?

Is it not YOU people’s duty to pray on our behalf?"...

...Tribes asked Ramanuja.

Ramanuja replied “Social duties have been distributed and specifically assigned to every Community amongst the Subjects of the Kingdom… so to say the people…

…so as to ensure … Each and every Social-demands of the Overall Society is radically taken care of… unfailingly.

According to such a prevalent rule of Law… One community has been assigned to perform SPIRITUAL DUTIES... through Soul-might...

..such as Chanting Vedas and other Recitations, performing Yagas, Rituals and Poojas, Teaching, Preaching and the like transcendental pursuits…

…so as to take care of the Divine-commitments for fetching the God’s grace towards the benefit of the overall Society…

… especially for getting the due showers of Rains.. by way of regular periodicity as well as by the apt quantum…

..abundant growth of Farm-products and Cattle-wealth like Cow’s Milk …

…Non occurrence of Natural calamities, Disasters, Epidemics etc.

But that does not mean… other communities are totally absolved from their rudimentary Human-commitments and the basic Moral-duties…

…to worship God for the sake of confirmation of one’s own God faith…

…for our own well-being and God’s grace for the individual’s Life-Success…

…as well as to pay our Gratitude to God..

...for every Unparallel support and Divine advantage we received from that Super-human power.

In brief.. God-worship in some Form and Pursuit of the Individual’s choice and convenience…

…is a MUST for every Human-being in his/her own interests…

… of Meaningful Life and Purpose.

You have wide Options and Freedom to choose and adopt... from amongst the Varied Choices.

Whichever path you may resort to and whatever God form… you may repose faith…

…indeed you will get the grace of God EQUALLY.

But do not forget that the God is One… He is Lakshmi-Narayana who is showering you the grace from behind all.

Similar to all the Rivers ultimately reaching one Ocean…

…all your prayers to different God-forms reach ultimately that One and the same Goal…

..which is the ORIGIN too.. for all !.. ...as categorically declared by Vedas.

That One God... Supreme God "Sriman Narayana"… answers your prayers…

...directly or indirectly as you individually approach..

...and showers His benign grace to all.! REMEMBER.!!!"
.
[/tscii:3ddeb9a93b]

devapriya

27th October 2007, 07:38 AM

Sudamaaji,

Keep posting reularly.

Your Knowledge is good tonic for us.

komban

6th November 2007, 11:52 PM

[tscii:25cbf77dbc]

…all your prayers to different God-forms reach ultimately that One and the same Goal…

..which is the ORIGIN too.. for all !.. ...as categorically declared by Vedas.

That One God... Supreme God "Sriman Narayana"… answers your prayers…

...directly or indirectly as you individually approach..

...and showers His benign grace to all.! REMEMBER.!!!"
.

Will this Lakshmi-Narayana ever have time to restore peace in Pakistan or Afghanistan or Iraq ? Aren't the prayers from people of those region doesn't reach him ? Is the mobile signal weak...?

BS!!![/tscii:25cbf77dbc]

Sudhaama

7th November 2007, 12:47 AM

.
.What one sows... he reaps.!!

[tscii:56ceffa8d0]

…all your prayers to different God-forms reach ultimately that One and the same Goal…

..which is the ORIGIN too.. for all !.. ...as categorically declared by Vedas.

That One God... Supreme God "Sriman Narayana"… answers your prayers…

...directly or indirectly as you individually approach..

...and showers His benign grace to all.! REMEMBER.!!!"
.

Will this Lakshmi-Narayana ever have time to restore peace in Pakistan or Afghanistan or Iraq ? Aren't the prayers from people of those region doesn't reach him ? Is the mobile signal weak...?

BS!!![/tscii:56ceffa8d0]

For the SUICIDAL ACTIONS of ... ALL CONCERNED... we cannot blame God.

The Sufferers are facing the Consequences of their PAST MISDEEDS.!

What Ramanujacharya or Lakshmi-Narayana... have to do.?
.

komban

7th November 2007, 09:38 AM

.
.What one sows... he reaps.!!

[tscii:f4e5ca8c9a]

…all your prayers to different God-forms reach ultimately that One and the same Goal…

..which is the ORIGIN too.. for all !.. ...as categorically declared by Vedas.

That One God... Supreme God "Sriman Narayana"… answers your prayers…

...directly or indirectly as you individually approach..

...and showers His benign grace to all.! REMEMBER.!!!"
.

Will this Lakshmi-Narayana ever have time to restore peace in Pakistan or Afghanistan or Iraq ? Aren't the prayers from people of those region doesn't reach him ? Is the mobile signal weak...?

BS!!![/tscii:f4e5ca8c9a]

For the SUICIDAL ACTIONS of ... ALL CONCERNED... we cannot blame God.

The Sufferers are facing the Consequences of their PAST MISDEEDS.!

What Ramanujacharya or Lakshmi-Narayana... have to do.?
.
Care to explain what are such misdeeds that those innocent people did to lose their lives for no fault of theirs ?

Embracing Islam ?

Sudhaama

7th November 2007, 06:21 PM

.
.What one sows... he reaps.!!

[tscii:6959a63a33]

…all your prayers to different God-forms reach ultimately that One and the same Goal…

..which is the ORIGIN too.. for all !.. ...as categorically declared by Vedas.

That One God... Supreme God "Sriman Narayana"… answers your prayers…

...directly or indirectly as you individually approach..

...and showers His benign grace to all.! REMEMBER.!!!"
.

Will this Lakshmi-Narayana ever have time to restore peace in Pakistan or Afghanistan or Iraq ? Aren't the prayers from people of those region doesn't reach him ? Is the mobile signal weak...?

BS!!![/tscii:6959a63a33]

For the SUICIDAL ACTIONS of ... ALL CONCERNED... we cannot blame God.

The Sufferers are facing the Consequences of their PAST MISDEEDS.!

What Ramanujacharya or Lakshmi-Narayana... have to do.?
.
Care to explain what are such misdeeds that those innocent people did to lose their lives for no fault of theirs ?

Embracing Islam ?

Dear Komba,

The direction of the Topic you are dragging me is too far out of the way.

It is a SENSITIVE QUESTION.. I am not interested to elaborate on...

...because my answer, even if it be based on truth... may hurt any one or the other segments of the Global Society... our Brethren.

Your previous Question itself is out of topic... a digression of the Thread.

However I did not ignore your valid question... and briefly touched the answer... by stating...

..Suicidal past actions of ALL CONCERNED...

Yes I reiterate the Words..."ALL CONCERNED"...

... irrespective of any Religion or any such vivi-sections of the Global Society.

This Question of Human-woes is UNENDINGLY irking in the minds of all the Social-minded mankind...

So I valued your heartfelt humanitarian feelings for the Suffering masses...

...irrespective of Religion, Nationality or any such segmentation of Global Kinsmen.

What any Religion has got to do in the Question you have raised?

Islam is one of the Great Religions of the World, through which the revered Sal / Mohammad has reformed the huge mass of erstwhile downtrodden Arabians initially and also...

.. paved a Sacred path for the uplift of Humanity...

..utilizing the innate Soul-power which is endowed only by Mankind.

That holy Soul-pursuit is further emancipating the followers towards higher sphere of Spiritualism...

...the Language of God irrespective of any Religion.

...similar to any other Great Religions of the World.!!!

While I was in Saudi Arabia.. I had the rare plus one more opportunity of diversity...

...a rare prevelege to closely observe and understand practically why any Religion is necessary for Mankind?...

... and how any Religion helps humanity in Life...

...by means of unshakeable God faith.!!

I used to admire their sincerety... not to miss even a Single Salah in the holy Mosque...

...and at every stage of talk they utter with wholehearted faith... INSHAH ALLAH.!!!

Besides I learnt a lot on the high values of Islam

Ramanuja duly recognised such God-faith of one Muslim princess of Delhi...

... whom he made as the Godess to be worshipped by all his disciples in the Sannidhi he shaped .

.. as BHEEVI NACHIAR at Ranganatha Temple at Srirangam.
.

kamath

12th November 2007, 10:42 AM

Sudhamaji,

Ur posts on Udaiyavar in the hub section are illuminating.

Hats off to U for the great work.

Sudhaama

8th December 2007, 06:14 AM

.
. Ramanujacharya 's ENGINEERING MARVEL.!

While on his tour... visiting the local people at the Karnataka region... volunteering to enquire their welfare...

..he came to know of acute water-scarcity... not only for Irrigation, although fertile lands...

..but also for Drinking needs. So to say entirely depending upon seasonal rains very badly.
He replied "Oh I see... let me think over what to do. Lord Lakshmi-Narayana will indeed show me the solution."

Then he left the place and proceeded with his onward jouney ....

...fervently praying... followed by constant Naama-Japam... for the sake of the people.

Suddenly he stopped at one place and called for the local Village officers.

"Make an Earthen Dam here... connecting those two Hills... from this point to that point... which will solve your water-problem for ever...

..because this will form a large Water-Storage lake.

Accordingly the word was sent to the King Vishnu-vardhana the King of Mysore... and on his immediate sanction, the Earthen Dam was built...

..conforming to Ramanuja's instructions.

To the amaze of all... it became a large lake to store water for all sorts of local needs for minimum seven years...

...even without any Rain.

The King wondered and thanked the Acharya and said.."Even our Engineers could not find out this simple solution...despite their strenuous brainwork...

..whereas you Swamiji have solved it easily and very simply.

He named that Reservoir as RAMANUJA - LAKE ...

...which continues with the same Name and fame even now.

More than the factor of Eternal solution... on a perennial Public problem of several centuries...

..the most important factor here to be remembered is...

..that just being a Relgious-Head cum Saint... he need not have taken undue pains...

..and personally involved himself as also applied his abilities for this Social issue...

..pertinent to the Government only.

Whereas he PERSONALLY intervened... voluntarily transgressing his bounds of Scope and Purview...

..only due to his Hearty spirit of Universal Love...

...More than the RELIGIOUS SPIRIT... his only concern and purpose.
.

Sudhaama

13th January 2008, 09:12 PM

.
. Why UTHSAVAR of Temple-Deity VISIT STREETS?

Conforming to Vishnu Aagama-Saasthras.. e.g. Pancharaathra or Vaigaanasa Systems...

...Every Vishnu Temple has MOOLAVAR (Unmoved Idol located beneath the Vimaanam, and within the Garbagriha / Sanctum-Sanctorum)...

..and parallelly another Idol.. named VIGRAHA... closeby the Moolavar... for the same deity.

But... Visiting the Streets by Uthsavars... named in Tamil as VEEDHI-PURAPPAADU... we can see only in places of contacts by Ramanuja's followers... i.e. mostly in South India. Why.?

That too only since the past about One Thousand Years.?... after Ramanujacharya took birth in 1017 AD.

The Concepts of Uthsavar and Moolavar are far different and contra-distinctory... although of the same Deity in the relevant Temple.

Moolavar is the functional form as the Graceful Ruler God.

...while the Uthsavar is the simple and humble form of Soulabhya in an affectionate paternal (Fatherly) outlook towards His children...

..showering abundant grace without insisting much formalities from the Seeker-devotee.

... thus ignoring His Supremacy and vast disparity between the Seeker- Creations and the Sought- God, the Protector.

Ramanujacharya thought ONE STEP FURTHER ahead..

If and while the Omnipotent Protector God has voluntary taken up another parallel role.. as the Humble and Simple Father... predominantly exhibiting affection (Vaathsalyam)...

..Can He afford to be Static and UNMOVED.? .. and

...Can He be contented to always confine Himslef to the four wall boundary of the Temple only.?

...If any child residing far-off from his affectionate Father... does not communicate adequately with him... what will be his reaction.?

...Will he keep quiet restfully.?.. Or get angry.?.. Or ignore his child's interests.?

...No..the Father rushes voluntarily towards his child... doubting of some probable problems and impediments... like Sickness or Over-work or onslaught of new worries etc....

..interfering in the dutiful, sincere and affectionate son's communication...

..Or else.. perhaps the Son might have got engrossed on some other secondary affair...

...which may be undeserving to be given priority over the mutual affection and concern between the Father and the Son.

So the Father reminds his Son.."Oh my dear Boy... I have rendered enough of Freedom to make the best use of YOUR Life and Enjoy the days...

...But do not forget.. I have my due roles too to play in Two different ways..

....One is CO-ORDINATORY and the other the SUPERSEDING Role... being your dutiful and affectionate father. So do not either forget me nor ignore my important roles...

..intended ...NOT IN MY INTERESTS... but for You and You only...

Besides, My dear Son.. even if you fail in your duties as a Son to His Father...

...I cannot forget nor ignore my duties to you... nor retaliate on you... for neglecting me...

... Hence I am visiting you and standing at your door... What is your RECIPROCATION and Reaction to my voluntary Simplicity...

...by my stooping down to a Servant's attitude.?"... Father questions his Son.

Similarly Ramanuja wanted to highlight such a voluntary gesture of healthy Paternal Vaathsalya spirit...

..alongside to instil the Reciprocal Son's spirit and Sense of duty from the BENEFICIARY creation, the Mankind.

So the Acharya introduced the new system of Uthsavar visiting the Streets...

...when the devotees become duty-bound to duly reciprocate by coming out of their houses and properly receive with the committed respect to the God-father.

Further Ramanuja introduced Uthsavas... Festivals too, outside the Temples... which were till then conducted within the precincts of the Temples.

Much impressed by these principes... the South-Indian Kings then... adopted the same Healthy system in all the Temples.

Thus the God is frequently reminded... in the midst of unnecessary THRUST of undue mundane thoughts...

...alongside the Devotional-spirit is enhanced and often rejuvenated.
.

Sudhaama

1st April 2008, 01:15 AM

.
. ONE Goal.. THREE Ways.!!!

All the three Acharyas Sankara, Madhwa and Ramanuja... are the GREAT AWATHARA-PURUSHAS.. REVERENTIAL SEERS..

...sent to Earth.. by One and the same Supreme God.. at different times..

..to EMANCIPATE the Mankind on the whole.

But each of them preached divergent and Contradictory Philosophic Theories.. although based on One and the same Moola-Texts... Vedas, Upanishads and Brahma-Soothra.

[html:50ec97eee0]
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p213/sudhaama/2008/Thiru-Apr2008/Narayana14.jpg
[/html:50ec97eee0]However they all UNANIMOUSLY asserted only ONE GOD as the Common Goal for all

... and that One God is Vishnu as the Supreme-God.. PARAMATHMA.. who created all other Gods...

..as clearly laid down in Vedas, Upanishads as well as the universally Common 18 Puranas.

Their difference lies.. Not on God's identity... but on the way to approach and gain His grace.

So to say... their difference is only on the Philosophical aspect..

..by way of varied sorts of Mutual- Relations between God, Man and other Creations...

Sankaracharya has rendered a yeoman service to God and the Mankind...

..by studying and learning from his Guru thorougly... just within 16 yrs age...

..and boldly ventured to revive the Vedic Religion.. which almost became extinct before Sankara...

..since its place was occupied by mostly Budhism and in some other areas Jainism... relegating the Vedic Religion to a few Kingdoms like that of Gupthas... apart from some Pockets here and there.

[html:50ec97eee0]
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p213/sudhaama/2008/Thiru-Apr2008/Sankara21-1.jpg
[/html:50ec97eee0]Hence the Vedic Religion got REBIRTH..or Second term of life because of Sankaracharya.

He established a new Vedic Philosophy named ADHWAITHA... Monism.

Subsequently, about 300 years after Sankara.. Ramanuja took Awathara.. and he developed and built up a huge Tower of Vedic Religion... in its ENTIRETY...

..on the FIRM FOUNDATION already laid down by the Great Sankara earlier.

After Ramanujacharya, at last Madhwacharya took Awathara and created a new Philosophy DHWAITHA (Dualism)..totally NEGATING Sankara's ADHWAITHA Philosophic Theory (Monism).

Does the Vedic Text give room for Self-Contradictions.?

Vedas, Upanishads and Brahmasoothra... describe the THREE SORTS of Relation and Propensities between God and His Creations.

(1) God prevails in all forms of Shapes and Shapeless ABSTRACT Forms.. as if anything and everything in the Universe... what we see and feel... are the multiple Manifestations of One God in varied forms... Whether Air, Fire, Water, Mountain, Plants, Animals, Humans.. etc.

[html:50ec97eee0]
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p213/sudhaama/2008/Thiru-Feb2008/Madhwa5.jpg
[/html:50ec97eee0]Such unique attributions are described through the First sort of Terminologies named as ABEDA- SRUTHI words...

...based on...which alone... Sankara built up his whole Philosophy of ADHWAITHA (Monism) meaning...

...All which exists are one and the same....Only one... that is God.

(2) God is the Supreme powerful Almighty... OMNIPOTENT, OMNISCIENT and OMNIPRESENT.. He created several other Gods... as also Earthly creations like Living-beings and Lifeless objects like Mud, Trees, Mountain etc.

Such unique attributions are described through the Second sort of Vedic Terminologies named as BEDA Sruthi words...

..based on... which alone... Madhwa built up his whole Philosophy of DHWAITHA (Dualism)

...laying out another Philosophic Theory.. contradicting Sankara's ADHWAITHA...

...that whatever exist in the universe... fall under two categories... CREATOR and CREATIONS.

(3) God although the Supreme in all respects.. He the CREATOR and CREATIONS are in some respects.. mutually INTER-DEPENDANT also.

Such unique attributions are described through the Third sort pf Terminologies.. named as GATAKA sruthi Terminologies.

How and Why the Difference and Contradictions by Three different Philosophies.?

(a) Sankara established his First Novel Philosophic- Theory.. ADHWAITHA... only based on the terminologies suited to his approach...

...under only one Section, amongst the Three... named as ABEDA Sruthi Terminologies..

..but he avoided descriptions for the other Two sorts of Vedic Terminologies... BEDA and GATAKA.

(b) Madhwa established his Second Novel Philosophic Theory...DHWAITHA...

...based only on the second sort of terminologies suited to his own pursuit..

...under only one section, amongst the Three.. named as BEDA Sruthi Terminologies...

..but he too avoided the descriptions for the other Two sorts of Vedic Terminologies...ABEDA & GATAKA.

[html:50ec97eee0]
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p213/sudhaama/2008/Thiru-Feb2008/Saraswathi-15.jpg
[/html:50ec97eee0]

But Ramanuja alone rendered describtions wholly...

... for ALL THE THREE SORTS OF SRUTHI Terminologies.. without skipping off any part of the Moola text.

.. as to How one and the same God can have three sorts of Intra- Contradictory Propensities.

[html:50ec97eee0]
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p213/sudhaama/2008/Thiru-Apr2008/Ramanuja11A.jpg
[/html:50ec97eee0]Goddess Saraswathi Devi gave Darsana in person to Sankaracharya...

... and approved his treatise naming it as.. SANKARA BHASHYAM.

At another occasion the same Goddess Saraswathi devi appeared in person and gave Darsana to Madhwacharya too...

...and approved his different Treatise also... naming it as MADHWA BASHYAM.

At another occasion, the same Goddess Saraswathi devi appeared in person and gave Darsana to Ramanujacharya too...

..and approved his FAR DIFFERENT Treatise also...

...naming it as SRI-BASHYA.

..Not as RAMANUJA-BASHYA.!.. Why.?
.

Shakthiprabha.

6th April 2008, 01:33 PM

Yes... Ramanujacharya was the RE-INCARNATION of Adhi-Sesha... which fact came to light not only by such a statement by the then Gjanis lived along with him... but also proved THRICE during his Lifetime.events.
Dear Mr Sudhaama,
why you are contradicting yourselfs? Some times you are saying that veda's lead to single universal God but many times you are attaching so many parivaars to god and Devas. Do you believe literal meaning of Adi seshan, Parkadal and reincarnation of Adiseshan too? Why you can't you please discuss history as just history? Why can't we look Ramanujar as simple human being with the wholehearted motive to express the truth he knows to all human irrespective of birth?

Dear r_kk,

I personally believe there is NO CONTRADICTION here. Its on how we perceive or understand any terminology.

'Truth' is like an ocean, each person describes either a single droplet or a limited quantity(quality) of water , from which THEY TRY TO say this is what truth is.

Truth is incomprehensible. Truth is this and that and everything, also, truth is neither this and that and nothing too. That which is everything becomes that which is NOTHING, if we undrestand it in its complete ONENESS.

So, RE-INCARNATION does not mean there is an adiseshan sitting in its all physical form and it re-enters the body. Some ppl comprehend it that way. Thats right for their perspective and CANNOT BE ARGUED wrong.

Whist some ohters my comprehend it as cluster of energy with similar characteristic / identical to the qualities of adiseshan (or any terminology which is termed as 'adiseshan' )

So, where is the contradiction here? Does not everything depend on how we understand?

Shakthiprabha.

6th April 2008, 01:37 PM

.
At another occasion, the same Goddess Saraswathi devi appeared in person and gave Darsana to Ramanujacharya too...

..and approved his FAR DIFFERENT Treatise also...

...naming it as SRI-BASHYA.

..Not as RAMANUJA-BASHYA.!.. Why.?
.

yes plz sudhama ? waiting for more.

(However, I request u to present it in fewer paragraphs for easy reading :oops: )

When everything is ONE, there seem no contradiction even in great philosophies of DWAITA, VISISHTA-ADWAITA and ADWAITA. It is but the same nature in different perspectives or stand points.

Shankara might not have NEGATED dwaita or interdependance of jeevatma and paramatma(visishta-adwaita). He might have just said, THE ROOT, when sought for, is adwaita. i.e. to say CROWN of the search is adwaita .

Sudhaama

6th April 2008, 05:02 PM

.
.Ramanuja's Philosophy TOTALITY, unlike Other Two.!!!

...Taken up Only one Third... either as ADHWAITHA or DHWAITHA...

...SKIPPING OFF the Other Two Classifications of Moola Text.

.
At another occasion, the same Goddess Saraswathi devi appeared in person and gave Darsana to Ramanujacharya too...

..and approved his FAR DIFFERENT Treatise also...

...naming it as SRI-BASHYA.

..Not as RAMANUJA-BASHYA.!.. Why.?
.

yes plz sudhama ? waiting for more.

(However, I request u to present it in fewer paragraphs for easy reading :oops: )

When everything is ONE, there seem no contradiction even in great philosophies of DWAITA, VISISHTA-ADWAITA and ADWAITA. It is but the same nature in different perspectives or stand points.

Shankara might not have NEGATED dwaita or interdependance of jeevatma and paramatma(visishta-adwaita). He might have just said, THE ROOT, when sought for, is adwaita. i.e. to say CROWN of the search is adwaita .

(1) Unlike the other Two Acharyas for Adhwaitha and Dhwaitha.. who took up ONLY ONE SECTION amongst the Three of the Moola-text...

..skipping off the other two sections of Varied Qualities of Creator.

..Ramanuja's Visishta-Adhwaitha is the Totality of the whole Moola-text, Brahma-Soothra...

...covering all the three types of Qualities of Creator...Adhwaitha, Dhwaitha and Gataka propensities...

...in relation to Creations.

(2) Sankara's Philosophy approaches the matter... that there is NO SECOND category in the Universe... other than the Supreme Soul... the Almighty Creator.

..which virtually constitutes to mean as... NA-DHWAITHAM.. although named as A-DHWAITHAM... says Ramanuja.

Whereas the Vedic Terminologies under ABEDA-SRUTHI are termed as ADHWAITHA...

..to mean, there exists the Second matter too... but HIDDEN and unperceptible through the elementary Potential- means of His Creations...

..but can be felt basically upto some extent... by Wisdom

I will try to elaborate step by step in a simple Language in an interesting manner...

..as to how one and the same Creator can possess Three sorts of Self-contradictory propensities in relation to His Creations.

..as clarified by Ramanuja... approved by Saraswathi Devi as the

...COMPLETE one.. named SRI-BASHYA.

On these points, I have already written in simple style... in my Tamil Serial Article of our HUB MAGAZINE Monthly...

...under the Title: THAMIZH-MARHAI THIRUVAAYMOZHI.
http://hubmagazine.mayyam.com/apr08/?t=11332

If you know Tamil... you can understand and get the answers to your questions better there ...

...Simpler and more interesting too... because of Tamil Language.
.

harishkumar09

7th April 2008, 10:21 AM

However they all UNANIMOUSLY asserted only ONE GOD as the Common Goal for all

... and that One God is Vishnu as the Supreme-God.. PARAMATHMA.. who created all other Gods...

Completely wrong analysis.

Madhva does not agree devathas were created by Vishnu inspite of maintaining the superiority of the latter. They and the souls which incarnate as humans are eternally created. BG clarifies this point when it says "ajo nithyo sashvato..." meaning "souls are eternally existing" and were unborn or uncreated. Madhva rejects both Ramanuja and Shankara's interpretation as incorrect.

Also Madhva has given equal importance to Abheda shrutis and proved that what those verses talk about is qualitative equalilty and not quantitative equality.Likewise the bedha-abhedha shrutis of Ramanuja have been interpreted to mean the qualitative equality and quantitative difference. Thus he has not ignored any verse. Also its incorrect to state that Madhva has not given any importance to Lakshmi Devi.

harishkumar09

7th April 2008, 10:44 AM

haathur Varnyam maya srushtam, Guna Karma vibhaagasaha
Thasya karthaaramapi maam vidhyadhyakarthaaram avyayam

... which means... "Four Classifications (of Humanity) by birth, is my creation... on the basis of their VARIED QUALITIES. Although I am the creator of such divisions by birth, I do not conduct them furtheron so. (I intend them to develop and raise up themselves.. by the best and ultimate opportunity by the Super-birth as Mankind)

Pardon me, just to clear by own doubt, in the Sans verse you cited, what are the Sanskrit words, which stand for the phrase: "by birth"?(which occurs in the interpretation above).

Actually no word states birth here.

The verse can be lterally translated as

The four-varnas are created by Me on the basis if karma and guna
But even the I am the creator , I am not one of them.

The Lord says that the four types of people are created by Me.Created in the sense the four types are pre-existing , but the Lord energised them and manifested them on earth. But nothing is there to say that therefore it has to be decided by birth alone as the Lord says it is decided by Guna and Karma. But socially speaking it proceeds in a hereditary way as it is easier that way and also convention and also a sense of duty.Those days there were no careers , society was based on duties and usually people born in respective families continued in the same profession and this was the case all over the world. So I dont understand why hindus are so upset by the caste system.

harishkumar09

7th April 2008, 10:58 AM

Also another difference is Madhva does not accept all religions are one and the same. He states that only the Vedic religion is the correct one and all other are false. He holds his interpretation of the Veda alone to be the correct one and capable of giving moksha. He says that it is mandatory to denounce falsehood in this world to attain salvation and so urges his followers to denounce false religions and critique incorrect commentaries on the Veda. According to him the true Vedic religion should be defended by both intellectual and physical means. World peace and prosperity reigns when the false religions are defeated by all possible means and true Vedic religions is accepted by one and all.

Sudhaama

22nd April 2008, 08:42 PM

.
.All Rivers lead to ONE OCEAN.!!!

...So are All the World Religions towards ONE GOD.!!!...

...although addressed and practised different by various Religions.!!

...Say Upanishads... which was quoted by Swami Vivekananda in the International Conference on Religions held at Chicago...

..and further was repeated in most of his Lectures...

..to affirm that the Vedic Religion is the One EMULATIVE Religion... UNPARALLEL...

...being imbibed with the True Humane-Spirit of...UNIVERSAL OUTLOOK... with Voluntary Love towards All the World and Nature...

..giving No room for Hatred or Domination or Ill-will towards other faiths...

..nor EVEN towards the Non-Hindus... Nor EVEN towards the Non-believers God... so to say Atheists.

That was an UNIQUE stand taken by Swami Vivekananda... was UNDISPUTABLE...

... nor anybody could COMPETE or VIE to boost up the image and impressions of the Common Mankind on other Religions.

Such an invaluable FOUNDATION-VALUE of Vedic Religion was the True Spirit of Ramanuja too...

..while comparing the Vedic Gospels with other popular Faiths in the Global-perspective.

In that respect Ramanuja got substantive amount of support and Clarifications from the Tamil-Vedas...

....So called ALWARS' DHIVYA PRABHANDHAM...

..especially THAMIZH-MARHAI THIRUVAAYMOZHI.. the Gyst of Sama-Veda...

...in an analytical approach on Vedic Philosophy... IN TOTALITY.

Thus Ramanuja preached to Global Mankind..

(1) ESCHEW HATRED or Ill-will TOWARDS OTHER FAITHS...

..even though disputable... based on the Yardstick of our Vedic Faith...

(2) Allow full Freedom for every Individual to choose his/her own Religious path of choice...

...as one may feel proper and befitting for oneself... in his/her personal interests on Life Goal

(3) Religious spirit emanates from UNIVERSAL-LOVE... towards one and all... including Animals and Worms...

..because after all, they too are God's creations and are the parts of Nature...

...deserving to be left undisturbed and NON-INTEFERED by others.

Such an Apllied Spirit innate for Mankind of TRUE HUMAN-VALUES...
he propagated...

..FAR DIFFERING from other Leaders and Connoisseurs of other Faiths.

Consequently Ramanujachaya could gain the Reciprocal Love and Veneration from all his parallels... REMARKABLY.

In brief Ramanuja's DRUM-BEAT MESSAGE to Humanity is that ...

...Religions are intended to generate MUTUAL-LOVE of Social-spirit rudimentarily...

...alongside EMANCIPATION of Mankind towards the higher Sphere of the due purpose of Earthly birth...

..but NOT TO DIVIDE nor BREAK the Web of Humanity...

...the One SUPREME SPECY... created by One Common EMPEROR PROTECTOR God.!!!

.. for our COMMON ADVANTAGE and Well-being of One and All. !!!
.

Sudhaama

9th May 2008, 08:30 PM

.
.DON'T OPPOSE Nor COMPETE with Other Faiths.

Because any Religion is NEITHER a BUSINESS Nor ENEMY ...

...but intended to UPLIFT the respective sections of Vast Humanity

...of multi-hues with varied tastes and understanding...

..similar to FOODS of varied sorts.

So said Ramanujacharya... the FIRST LEADER... in the entire world..

...especially a Religious Leader... amongst all the Religious Heads.

One Supreme God has created several Divine paths and has spread the GOD-FAITH and His Gospel... of different varieties...

...through His Divine Prophets...

... to make the Mankind develop God-faith... in some form.

Which alone can ensure a HOMOGENEOUS GLOBAL SOCIETY...

...of Universal Mankind...

..ensuring Peace, Happiness and PROSPERITY all over the Globe.!!!"

... preached Ramanujacharya... the First Voice UNIVERSALLY.!!!
.
...

Sudhaama

22nd December 2008, 01:02 AM

.

. Life-History - RAMANUJA ACHARYA - Movie.

http://www.rajshri.com/tamil/devotional/nowplaying.asp?Genre_Id=devotional4

.
.

Sudhaama

22nd December 2008, 07:33 PM

.
Ramanuja... the PIONEER of Humanity.!
.

.

. Life-History - RAMANUJA ACHARYA - Movie.

http://www.rajshri.com/tamil/devotional/nowplaying.asp?Genre_Id=devotional4
.

In the above Movie-presentation of Biography...

..there are several Contradictions with the True History.

For example...

(1) Ramanuja and his Parents are shown as Iyengars / Sri-Vaishnavites.. by birth.

No... Ramanuja's Father Kesava Somayaji and his Mother Kanthimathi.. were Iyers / Adhvaithis / Smaarthas.. So called Disciples of Adhi Sankaracharya.

Ramanuja got converted himself as Iyengar / Sri-Vaishnava Brahmin...

...later, on the Commands from God.. Kanchi Varadaraja Perumal.

(2) Contrary to this Movie sense... Ramanuja's Wife Thanjamambal too was an Iyer / Adhwaithi ..

...who never got converted to Iyengar / Sri-Vaishnava.

(3) Ramanuja's First Guru.. Yaadhava-prakasa... an Adhwaithi / Disciple of Adhi Sankaracharya...

...who hated Ramanuja and unsuccessfully attempted to murder the Boy Ramanuja by surreptitiously drowning him in the Ganga River...

..subsequently repeanted and sought Ramanuja to be his Guru.

Ramanuja accepted that erstwhile Guru... as his Present Disciple...

..and named him as GOVINDA-JEEYAR.

It is incorrectly stated in the above Movie... that his another name was... Arulhaalha Perumaalh...

In fact Arulhlaalha-Perumalh .. was another person... named Yagjna-moorthi... a high Adhwaithic Scholar from Kashi (Varanaashi)...

..who voluntarily approached Ramanuja... and challenged him on the Veracity of Ramanuja's Sri-Bashya... Visishtadwaitha Philosophy

..the Totality by Coverage of the whole.. on the Vedic-Content and Concept as well.

After 18 day Debate... Yagjna-moorthi had to accept his failure and sought to be the Disciple of Ramauja...

...which request was accepted... and the New name as the Disciple of Ramanuja...

...titled by him to Yagjnamoorthi the erstwhile Adhwaithi.. was ARULHAALHA PERUMAALH.!

More to follow.
.

Sudhaama

15th January 2009, 09:15 PM

.
.
. Why Saraswathi-devi titled as SRI-BASHYA.?..

..Why Not as RAMANUJA-BASHYA.?

.
Similar to the other Titles... Sankara-Bashya and Madhwa-Bashya... why the Ramanuja's Treatise on the same subject... is not named

..as Ramanuja-Bashya... but as SRI-BASHYA,?

.

Is it because Goddess Saraswati was so much impressed and gave this prefix SRI??

Just to make it in brief...

When Sri Adhi Sankaracharya, the Incarnation of Lord Siva... took Awatara...

..the status of Vedic-Religion was extremely poor... and NOT MUCH FAMILIAR.

Because Buddhism was prominently prevalent in most regions of India...

..leaving some pockets for Jainism and Vedic-Religion so called Hinduism.

Buddhism is practically ATHEISM by Soonya-Vaadham..

...although it stipulates high HUMAN-VALUES... by Self-Dscipline.!

God wanted Theistic Values of God-Faith.. by making Mankind truly understand the Super-Human Power... through Vedic concept...

... and get emancipated by God-Realisation... the SELF-ENDEAVOUR...

...complying with the due PURPOSE OF HUMAN BIRTH.

So as a Rudimentary INTRODUCTION TO GOD... a bit TANGENTIAL with Buddhism...

..Adhi Sankaracharya... felt the URGENT DEMAND OF THE TIME.. by only a PART OF THREE VEDIC Concepts.

So Sankaracharya CREATED a New Philosophy named ADHWAITHA ...

..basing on only one section of Three parts of Vedic Concepts as Abedha-Sruthi (Adhwaitha)... Bedha-Sruti (Dwaitha)... and GATAKA-SRUTHI

...according to His Own Unique Interpretation of Vedic Terminologies and Concept.

That level and Degree of God-Realisation was cosidered as ENOUGH for the Time...

...and so Saraswathi-devi approved it as SANKARA-BASHYA...

...Silently meaning the Authorship of Sankara for ADHWAITHA Philosophy...

... newly created by Sankara's own School of perception.

Similarly when Madhwacharya the Incarnation of Vayu-deva, another form of ANTHARYAMI-VISHNU...

..took birth subsequently... He might have felt the necessity to convince another section of the masses who could not perceive the Paramathma in the Adhwaithic Concept.

So he INVENTED another Philosophy named DWAITA... basing on another section named BEDHA-SRUTHIS of the Three Vedic Concepts...

..which also was approved by Saraswathi-devi as relevant to another section of the Human-Society....

..and SHE titled it as MADHWA-BASHYA...

..Silently meaning the Authorship by Madhwa on Dwaitha-philosophy... His own School of perception.

Thus Sankara and Madhwa have dealt with ONLY PARTLY...

... taking up only one another respective parts of Totality... suiting to ones own...

..ignoring the other Two parts amongst the Totality or SAMPOORNA Three Veda-concepts Bedha, Abedha and Gataka Sruthis.

Whereas Ramanujacharya took up WHOLLY all the Three varied and MUTUALLY CONTRADICTORY Concepts of Bedha, Abedha and Gataka Sruthis...

..and rendered the Composite sense of Vedas in TOTALITY...

...so to say... SAMPOORNA-PHILOSOPHY of the Vedic-perception..

....ANALYTICALLY LINKING the True-sense behind all the three CONTRADICTORY Concepts...

..WHICH ALONE could clarify well on the TRUE CHARACTER of Paramaathma... the Supreme Soul...

..CONVINCING enough...to all, from Lay-man upto any highly Intellectual Scholar of any and all Religions.!

So Saraswaithi-devi approved Ramanuja's Bashya as SRI-BASHYA...

..since it was NOT NEWLY CREATED by Him... as MAN-MADE...

...but only the UNRAVELLED TRUE-CONCEPT and sense of Vedic- Philosophy...in Totality...

..which already existed.. but became extinct... during the Interim era... prior to all these Three Acharyas

SRI-BASHYA means Totality of the Vedic-Concept in True Sense.
.

Shakthiprabha.

29th January 2009, 11:08 AM

Great sudhama

:bow:

lovely info :bow:

I however reserve my perceptions and comments on "buddhism is atheism dealing on soonya vadham"

Talking about atheism or soonya vadha is out of the bounds of this thread. So let it rest :)

Sudhaama

11th February 2009, 09:31 PM

.

Australian Christian turned Disciple of Ramanujacharya...

.. after studying Judaism, Christianity and Islam...

..got named as Rama-Ramanujacharya... and now..

..Running Religious Instituition to propogate Ramanuja's Philosophy

[html:256713e979]

<img src= "http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p213/sudhaama/2008/Thiru-MAR-09/Rama-ramanuja1.jpg" width=300 align=right>
[/html:256713e979]..in Australia.

Sri Rama Ramanuja Ācārya

Prior to his initiation into Sri Vaisnavism, Sri Rama Ramanuja Ācārya spent 8 years in the Middle East studying Hebrew, Arabic, Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

He studied Sanskrit in Varanasi and then spent some time in South India studying Tamil, Vaisnava philosophy and Pancharatra Agama.

Sri Rama Ramanuja Ācārya was instructed by his guru, Sri Varada Yatiraja Jeeyar...

... to establish an independent Sri Vaisnava Math in Australia. Sri Ramanuja Matham was conceptualised...

... in Sydney, Australia in early 1998.

Following his guru's instruction, Sri Rama Ramanuja Ācārya,

....with his savings, purchased a house from which to conduct classes and establish a centre for the propogation of Vedanta.

http://www.srimatham.com/home.html
.

.

Sudhaama

3rd May 2009, 12:54 PM

.
Ramanuja propogated HUMAN-VALUES of Vedic- Spirit.!.

When Sri Sankaracharya took up the DIVINE-TASK...

..practically the Vedic Religion was almost extinct...

..just in some pockets of the then India... here and there, so patronised bya few Hindu Kings.

But Buddhism was well firm-routed since highly patronised by the Hindu converted Buddhist Kings...

..alongside Jainism in some other Regions.

So Sankara felt the urgent necessity to revive the Vedic Religion... within a short period..

..and so he achieved marvelous transformation by means of His strenuous endeavour...

...just by walking all over India...

His approach of propogation was far different from that of Sri Ramanuja.

Sankara used to go in search of Antagonist scholars and challenge them.. by dragging them into argument...

..with a pre-condition, that whoever amongst the two opponents gets defeated by arguments...must become the disciple of the Victor Acharya...

...along with the en masse of followers.

Thus Sankara won over one and all His opponents invariably... and converted all the Non-Hindus into hindus... within a very short time.

Whereas the approach of Ramanuja who took birth in the year 1017 A.C... about 300 years after Ssankara..

...was far different.

Ramanuja did not volunteer to challenge His opponents... nor propogated to the followers of other Faiths.

But only accepted the Challenges of others... and won over them UNCONDITIONALLY by defensive arguments..

However the erstwhile opponent scholars were so fully convinced on the Vedic-sense, as UNRAVELLED by Ramanuja...

..they volunteered to become His Disciples along with their vast followings.

Yes. Ramanuja never preached to others... except to his own Disciples.

But He used address the vast gathering of commoners from different Religious faiths as well as Atheists...

..insisting them to BELIEVE IN GOD... in some form of individual choice and will...

..as well as to MAINTAIN HUMAN-VALUES..

..ENSURING SOCIAL-UNITY...irrespective of mutual differences of faiths and beliefs...

...without HATRED TOWARDS ANYONE... NOR DECRYING OTHER FAITHS.

God is One.! He cannot be perceived by the ORDINARY Five-senses of Humanity...

...such as Seeing, Hearing, Touching, Tasting, Smelling

..but possible by means of your INNER-FEEL only.!!!

You can and have to perceive Him... by ENHANCING YOUR INNER SOUL-POWER ...

..which is possible by your own persistent endeavour on GOD-DEVOTION..

..plus SELF-REALISATION.!!!

The emulative RARE opportunity...

... endowed only for the great birth HUMANITY.!!!

Real Happiness can be gained only by means of Peace of Mind...

..sincere adherence to Self-duties...

..and CLEAN Congruence of Thought, Talk and Deed (THRI-KARANA SUDDHI) .!!!

The conspicuous points of difference from other Acharyas...

..on which Ramanuja emphasised, are...

(1) The Whole Humanity are the God's children... as of ONE GLOBAL FAMILY. So treat all others as your brethren.

(2) Nobody is superior or inferior by birth... So you must ensure SOCIAL-EQUALITY... in every and all respects.
.
(3) While dealing with others... maintain the SELF-DISCIPLINE of EMPATHY ( Imagining yurselves in the other relevant man's position)

(4) God-faith and Devotional pursuit... in some form.. is UNAVOIDABLE DUTY... to one and all...

..irrespective of Caste, Duties, Circumstances or any such factor.

(5) Gods grace is the must for everyone... He being our Sole Protector..

..which must be acknowledged daily and frequently...as the BENEFICIARY.

..with SELFLESS GRATITUDE... similar towards your parents.!
.

P_R

22nd June 2009, 05:48 PM

இராமானுஜர் பங்கேற்ற அரங்க நிகழ்வுகள் - வரலாறா? கற்பனையா?
எஸ். இராமச்சந்திரன் (http://sishri.org/ramanuja.html)

Article written in response to certain strong claims made by former head of the TN Archaeology Department Head R.Nagaswamy's book Ramanuja - Myth and Reality

Plum

22nd June 2009, 08:20 PM

Sudhaama

1st September 2009, 09:22 AM

.
.

.FALSE CRITICISMS.!... Salient Points Replied.

இராமானுஜர் பங்கேற்ற அரங்க நிகழ்வுகள் - வரலாறா? கற்பனையா?
எஸ். இராமச்சந்திரன் (http://sishri.org/ramanuja.html)

Article written in response to certain strong claims made by former head of the TN Archaeology Department Head R.Nagaswamy's book Ramanuja - Myth and Reality

I am shocked to note the daring FALSE STATEMENTS... and SULLIED IMAGE painted on a proven Great Acharya... Bhagawad Ramanuja...

....a Religious cum Social Reformer of World repute.... a crusader of Social-equality who propogated Human-Values coupled with UNIVERSAL- LOVE.

Although I can repudiate and justify point by point... I am not interested to waste my time...

...in replying to such intentional insults from the enviers... throwing False statements far from proven truth based on authentic History.

I am eagerly waiting to see what the Vaishnawa- Scholars have got to reply to this parochial untrue statements against a Seer

However to appease the curiosity of my Friends.. I will touch a few points... in a BROAD OUTLOOK.

மைசூரிலிருந்து ஸ்ரீரங்கம் திரும்பிய பின் அவர் ஸ்ரீபாஷ்யத்தைப் பூர்த்தி செய்தது சகாப்தம் 1077 அதாவது கி.பி. 1155-56-ஆம் ஆண்டு ஆகும்.

இக்கொடுஞ்செயல்களின் விளைவாக இராமானுஜர் மாறுவேடத்தில் மகிஷபுரிப் (மைசூர்) பகுதியிலுள்ள தொண்டனூர் என்ற ஊருக்குத் தப்பிச்சென்று பிட்டிதேவன் அல்லது விஷ்ணுவர்த்தனன்
எனப்பட்ட ஹொய்சள அரசனின் அடைக்கலத்தில் 12 ஆண்டுகள் வாழ்ந்தார் என்றும், அவரைத் துன்புறுத்திய சோழன் கிருமிகண்டம் (தொண்டைப் புற்று) நோயினால் துன்புற்று இறந்தான் என்றும்,
அதன் பின்னர் இராமானுஜர் திருவரங்கத்திற்குத் திரும்பினார் என்றும் வைணவர்கள் நம்புகின்றனர்

Ramanuja was born in the year 1017 AD.. and completed his Earthly life in the year 1137.A.D... after living exactly 120 years.

He wrote Sri-Bashyam treatise on Vedas with the help of Kooraththu-Azhwar prior to returning to Srirangam...

...followed by miserable punishments to his Disciple Koorathu Azhwar as well as his Guru Peria-Nambi... who were made blind.. by the cruel King.

So can the above statements corroborate with the True authentic History.?

விசிஷ்டாத்வைதத் தத்துவத்தை நிறுவிய இராமானுஜர்,

Ramanuja did not establish a new philosophy named Visishta-adwaitha... unlike Sankaracharya's newly established Adhwaitha... and Madhwacharya's Dhwaitha too newly created.

Rather Ramanuja revived the originally existed Vedic-philosophy of totality... for Vedas, which was extinct for about 400 years until Ramanuja's revival. Such a revived Philosophy was
titled later as VISISHTA-ADWAITHA... by Ramanuja's successive Acharyas... to identify the differences between the newly introduced ADWAITHA philosophy by Sankaracharya..

வைணவ சமயத்தில் பன்னிரு ஆழ்வார்களையடுத்து மிக உயர்ந்த இடத்தை வகிக்கிறார். வேதம் தமிழ் செய்த சடகோபரான நம்மாழ்வாருக்கு இணையாக இவரைக் கருதுவதுண்டு .

Acharyas are far different from Alwars... Ramanuja was an ardent disciple of Nammalwar.. and so Nammalwar's Padukas at his birthplace Alwar-Thirunsgari.. is named as Ramanuja.

So Ramanuja getting re-christened as ALWAR is utterly irrelevant and nobody even attempted for it..

இராமானுஜர் சாதி உயர்வு தாழ்வுகளை எதிர்த்தவர் என்பதும் சோழ அரசனின் பகைமைக்குக் காரணம் என்ற கருத்து உண்டு.

No Not at all. Chozha Emperors were totally not bothered about Caste-differences... because their several wives belonged to various castes.

இராமானுஜருக்கும் சோழ அரசனுக்குமிடையே நிலவிய பகைமை குறித்து ஆராய வேண்டும் என்ற ஆவல் ஏற்படுவதற்கு, அண்மையில் நிகழ்ந்த இரு நிகழ்வுகளே காரணமாக அமைந்தன. அவற்றுள்
முதல் நிகழ்வு, பரவலாகப் பேசப்பட்ட, 'தசாவதாரம்' திரைப்படத்தில் இடம் பெற்ற, சிதம்பரம் கோவிந்தராசப் பெருமாள் சிற்பம் கடலில் எறியப்பட்டது தொடர்பான கலையுலகச் சித்திரிப்பு ஆகும்.

Yes. This episode shown in the Movie "Dasawatharam"... that the Chidambaram Govindaraja-perumal MOOLAWAR was thrown into the Sea.. is PURELY A FICTION.

Only the Uthsavar was thrown into the sea at night... by the surreptitious stealing... on the secret arrangements by the Chozha King.

When the Archakas found at the next morning.. that the Vigraha was missing.. they rushed to Thirupathi.. where Ramanuja was camping then.

Ramanuja got this shocking news in his dreams as a message from Garudalwar.. even before the arrival of Chidambaram archakas. So Ramanuja sent the Royal warriors in the disguise of
merchants to Chozha Kingdom and secretly picked up the Uthsava vigraha lying under the sea,...

..and installed it ar Thirupathi.. after constructing a new Govindaraja Temple there. Then the Moolavar was newly made and installed by Ramanuja... while the Uthsavar vigraham.. even now
existing at Thirupathi.. was from Chidambaram Govindaraja Temple.

Subsequently after the death of the cruel Kirumi-kanta chozha who died of Cancer-decease...

..his successor son repeanted for his father's misdeeds, apologised to Ramanuja and invited him to render the due pariharas..

Then Ramanuja returned to Chozha Kingdom.. and got a new Govindaraja utsawar vigraham made... and installed at Chidambaram Temple.

Thus the present status is...

At CHIDAMBARAM Govindaraja Temple :--- Moolawar is the Original as existed since Alwars periods... UTHSAVAR newly made and installed by Ramanuja.

At THIRUPATHI Govindaraja Perumal Temple:--- Uthsavar is the Original but transferred from Chidambaram.... MOOLAVAR was newly made and installed by Ramanuuja.

..To Continue.
]

harishkumar09

17th September 2009, 11:07 PM

Very good information.Please continue to enlighten.

Sudhaama

1st October 2009, 08:24 AM

.
..
Moving Song on Ramanuja... by Mahaan Sri Annamacharya...

...Lord Sri Venkateswara-graced Keerthana:--

Annamacharya's Keerthana on RAMANUJA. - Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgSxup5NJV8&NR=1

Will anyone here kindly let me have this Telugu Sahithya Text.. LYRICS..

...along with the Meaning.. word by word..?

THanks.

Affectionately,
Sudhaama
.

Badri

8th October 2009, 09:21 AM

Annamacharya, who was initiated into Sri Vaishnavism, naturally holds Udayavar in high esteem. Just how much is revealed in this song, where he considers Sri Ramanujacharya as not only a Guru in the Guru Parampara but as the talking God himself!

Here is the meaning of this song along with the lyrics

gathulanni khilamaina kaliyuga mandunu gathi eethade chupe ghana guru daivamu

In this kaliyuga, when all other efforts are of no use, he is the great guru, the god, that shows us the true path

Ithani karunane kaa ila vaishnavula maithimi, ithani vallane kantini thirumani

Because of His grace only I could become a Vaishnava in this life on this earth and because of Him I could see/wear thiruman

Ithade upadesamichenu ashtakshari mantramu...ithade ramanujulu iha para daivam..

He is the one who gave upadhesha of the ashtakshari mantra. He is Ramanuja, the god of here and hereafter (ubhaya-vibhuti)

Velayinche eethadekaa vedapu rahasyamulu, chalamai eethade chupe saranagathi.

He disclosed the secrets of the Vedas, He showed the path of surrender (saranagathi),

nilipinaadeethade kaa nijamudraadhaaranamumalasi ramanujulu matalaade daivamu...

He established the correct source (the custom of wearing the Sankha and chakra on one's shoulders); for this reason Ramanuja is the talking God

Niyamamulu ithade kaa nilipe prapannulaku, dayatho mokshamu chupe thaganeethadu,

He established the rules and regulations to all the prapannas, He, with His mercy shows (gives) us the Moksham

nayamai Sri Venkatesu nagamekke vaakitanu....daya chuchi mammu nitte thalli tandri daivamu

He, with His mercy on us, will take us to the door steps of Lord Sri Venkateswara, He is our mother and father and God

Sudhaama

9th October 2009, 01:14 AM

.

gathulanni khilamaina kaliyuga mandunu gathi eethade chupe ghana guru daivamu

In this kaliyuga, when all other efforts are of no use, he is the great guru, the god, that shows us the true path

Dear "Badri"

Well done. Many Thanks.

One point I want to get clarified. Please advise me how far I am correct to understand so.

For the words above-quoted... with my knowledge of Telugu... I understand the meaning as ...

'In the Kaliyuga when all the Ultimate Resorts / Means of Refuge... are DETERIORATIVE / DELAPIDATIVE...

...He being the Great Guru and God... is the only Refuge [for the Seekers]...

...since competent enough to show [the correct / best path]."
.
Also I request... One and all our Telugu Friends here...

...to clarify and analyse the depth of meaning further.

Thanks.
.

.

Sudhaama

6th November 2009, 04:52 AM

.

Ramanuja... the ONLY Religious- Leader... UNIQUE.!!!... Emulative.!

....Who never propagated his Doctrines...

..amongst his Non-Disciples.!

"No Religion is Inferior...

Common God, for Mankind ... through different Faiths.... is ONE and the SAME."... said Ramanuja.

When Ramanuja had to leave off Chozha-nadu... due to UNDUE INTERFERENCEs and Over-Domination ON RELIGION ... by the King

...Kulothunga Chozha... the SAIVA FANATIC...

...and SEEK THE REFUGE in the Neighbour Kannada state...

...the INDIRECT DRAMA... thrust on Him... by Lord Ranganatha...

... took a pleasant turn....

Spiritually He could redress the unsurmountable grievance of the King... ....his daughter Princess under the possession of a mighty Evil force... Brahma Rakshasa.

.. which miracle revealed the hidden Divine truth....

....proving Ramanuja to that Jain King as the Transcendental Aadhi Seshawathara..

The Princess got cured within a trice... on Ramanuja's commands... and the Brahma-Rakshasa bowed down to Ramanuja... announcing openly on His divine background.

The Jain King Pittiraya appealed to Ramanuja to accept as his Disciple.. which request was approved and implemented.

Consequently Ramanuja became the all ever powerful in the Kingdom.

Then the Kings Jain Gurus fled away the Kingdom... deserting their followers.

Left in the lurch, thousands of Jains of the then Mysore approached Ramanuja... and sought His advice...

....whether they were bound to get converted to Hinduism as Vaishnavite-disciples of Ramanuja...

... and that they were willing to comply with, accordingly.... if ordained so, either by the King or Ramanuja, the Rajya-Guru..

Whereas Ramanuja calmly replied stating that He does not accept any FORCIBLE RELIGIOUS CONVERSION....

...and that He does not preach amongst the Non-followers that the Vedic Religion is the BEST AMONGST ALL RELIGIONS.

It is a question... everyone has to search by own wisdom... and decide, which is the apt and best Religion... APPLICABLE IN HIS / HER CASE.

..In any case, I have advised the King to....

.... TREAT ALL THE PEOPLE OF VARIOUS RELIGIONS EQUALLY.

...so you are at Liberty to follow any Religion of your individual choice

...but keep one important point in your mind... DON'T FORCE OTHERS TO FOLLOW YOUR PATH of any Religion...

....you must allow EQUAL FREEDOM TO ALL...to follow ones own choice of anyone Religious pursuit amongst various sorts of GOD-FAITHS..

And the MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR... I ADVISE TO ALL OF YOU...

... BELIEVE IN GOD in some form and Name... Follow any Religion... as you personally PREFER....

Mutually respect others Faiths too.!... No Religion is inferior... all are various paths towards One common Goal..

...So You all must learn to live peacefully and amicably.... imbued with the Humane Spirit of UNITY IN DIVERSITY.... like a Rainbow.!

And.... Don't be an Atheist. (Nasthika)

Yes Everyone of Mankind must TRUST IN GOD... through anyone Religion....

..ALL the various SORTS OF PRAYERS.... from various Hearts... LEAD TO ONE COMMON GOD...

...said Ramanuja.
.
.

Sudhaama

10th November 2009, 06:09 PM

.

MEANING and Sahithya - Annamacharya Keerthana on RAMANUJA.

- Gathulanni khilamaina

http://annamacharyulu.blogspot.com/2007/04/annamayya-kirtana-gatulanni-khilamaina.html
.

.- Song - Video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgSxup5NJV8

.
.

Sudhaama

24th September 2010, 05:48 PM

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.

"Oh Man,

...Your EARTHLY PARADISE... in YOUR Hands.!"

For all Current Era PROBLEMS & QUESTIONS of Mankind,

--Ramanujacharya only, REPLIED CLEARLY,

... Simply convincing ANSWERS ... and...

...PRACTICALLY FEASIBLE SOLUTIONS .!!!,

[html:a95288f952]
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p213/sudhaama/2008/Thiru-Apr2008/Ramanuja11A.jpg
[/html:a95288f952]The SALIENT POINTS are...

1.Vedic Religion is a COMMON TREATISE to preach HUMAN-VALUES to the ENTIRE MANKIND.

Yes. They are applicable to ANYBODY and EVERYBODY of any Nation, Religion or even an Atheist.

2. You are the SUPREME BIRTH, as Human—the ONLY CREATURE born to ENJOY also side by side---

---the worth of EARTHLY BIRTH, because you are a Specy in between the Beasts and God.

So to mean, You are a REFINED ANIMAL.

Hence if the Refinity leaves you--- then you will be treated by others as Animal only.

3. You Human are Supreme, because of HUMAN-VALUES, which must be sincerely NURTURED and carefully maintained to ensure your MEANINGFUL LIFE on Earth.

4. You Human are Supreme, mainly because You only are innate and endowed with SOUL-POWER, the Greatest and Mightiest, than the other three mights you possess by Wisdom, Mind and Physique.

So you have to conserve Soul power by any and all means constantly. Otherwise you will lose your worth as Human.

5. You have to BELIEVE GOD --- the SUPREME POWER ruling over all the Universe, including You and me. Such a pursuit only can make YOUR LIFE WORTHY.

6. In whatever way, you may perceive, believe and worship God by way of any Religion or Faith---

...God is ONE & the SAME only, common to the entire Mankind, in whatever Name and Form or Formless, you may choose to accept as your SAVIOR Protector.

7. The WHOLE MANKIND must be deemed as of ONE GLOBAL FAMILY, ensuring HUMAN FRATERNITY.

8. If you are REALLY A GENTLEMAN of Human-Calibre, you must equally respect Others beliefs and Faiths also...

---even if anyone or more of those varied GOD-GIVEN Options for the Mosaic Mankind may not suit you, nor CONVINCING to you, nor found acceptable to you.

9. Whether you believe in God or not, if you are an ATHEIST too,

-- even in such a worst case of a Member of Mankind,

---You too are One amongst the members of Vedic Religion.

(Yes. Hindu Religion only accepts even an Atheist also as another sort of Hindu).

10. Even if You do not Trust in God --- You cannot avoid TRUSTING NATURE---

--- another FORM OF GOD, which is nurturing you to live, thrive or even EXIST and SURVIVE.

11. The whole Universe has been created by God as EGALITARIAN.. So One and All His Creations possess EQUAL RIGHTS to exist, thrive and advance...

... as much as You the Supreme birth, the Mankind deserve. reserve and claim as YOUR RIGHTs...

... to utilize the same Earth, Your TEMPORARY ABODE towards YOUR BEST ADVANTAGE.!

So SHARE Your Rights along with other Creatures too.!

12. And also PROTECT, CONSERVE and Pay back to the Nature God including the Living-beings as well,

--- a part of your EARNINGS from Nature, as well as by SOCIAL SERVICE,

--as a GENTLEMANLY OFFER Voluntarily in return,

-- the due PRICE for Your EARTHLY WORTH, by means of VITAL FEED from Nature to You.

13. You are a part of Nature as one of the Limbs of God, similar to any part or Limb of Your Body to You.

Similar to You being able to efficiently conduct yourself, only because of the sincere CO-ORDINATION of all your parts of Your Body and Soul, effectively synchronizing with your decision by your Wisdom coupled with Mind.

... so is the case of God too in the conduct of Universal orderly functions, super-monitored by God.

So try to understand and duly CO-OPERATE and CO-ORDINATE as also ABIDE by the Laws of Nature as well as the Laws of Government--

... alongside the Religious Doctrines and Stipulations of the God, you follow with UNIVERSAL-LOVE,

... by implementing your due role on His COMPREHENSIVE PLAN for the Society as a whole.

14. The Rudimentary principle of any Human is TRI- PURITY by one and the same intention backed Thought, Speech and Action.

Otherwise, not only you are a HYPOCRITE but also INFERIOR than Animals.

In such a Negative case as BEASTLY MAN you will be rejected and ILL-TREATED...

... by not only the Ruler Government, Society and Your own Family as well---

-- but also by God, Your SUPREME PROTECTOR.

Yes. EVERY LIVING-CREATURE including the mighty Beasts and easily vulnerable Worms...

...maintain SELF-DISCIPLINE in adopting ONE UNIFIED CONDUCT, by sense of TRIPARTITE PURITY, by Mind ( Thoughts and Intention), Wisdom, and Body.

So, by neglecting the vital need of YOUR TRI-PURITY, which is the Basic Factor of HUMAN-VALUES,

... You lose even the FUNDAMENTAL Qualification for any form of Human.!

With such a SELF-DECLINING Pursuit on Life and the Society, as well as towards YOUR OWN-SELF too...

---does it mean or not... that You will become INFERIOR / WORSE than even BEAST, your Sub- standard creature, the Wild-mean.?

So You can JUDGE YOURSELF... Are you a Human or Beast.?

15. You can fetch Your EARTHLY DUES, Only commensurate with YOUR REAL WORTH to God.!

.. Rather You cannot achieve the REAL WORTH OF EARTHLY LIFE.. by being SELFISH,

...but by Only the True spirit of EMPATHY.!

So to mean... You must think, intend, behave, do and deliver, in the same manner to others VOLUNTARILY...

...what you will expect and wish to receive from them, by RECIPROCAL SPIRIT.

16. Your EARTHLY PARADISE rests in YOUR HANDS.!!!

... because You are the DEMY-GOD innate by birth, and so...

...if You TREAT and CONDUCT Yourselves as HUMAN.!!!

.
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