cricket of yesteryear

[hehehewalrus]

cricketing stories of yesterday follows here.....(coming up soon)

[S.Balaji]

Dear Friends,

Like any other Indian , I am a mad follower of Cricket and I have also played decent cricket up to College level.

Like all average Indians, my attention got diverted to studies and could not play regular cricket.

Lets discuss about famous cricket matches of yester years and analyse here.

Thanks my friend for opening this thread

It was the great westindies series - 1970

Indian travelled to westindies under AJit wadekar's captaincy.

THe team had PROMISING YOUNGSTERS LIKE VISHY, GAVVY, SOLKAR, ETC

apart from senior guys llike - Pras / Chandra / Bedi/ Venkat

In the first match , Sardesai played well and scored runs.

SMG - Gavaskar , made his debut atlast and scored well in that match.

You know , the first run scored by SMG was actually a legbye !!!!

The great sunny went on to score 10000 runs which is a different story.

During that series, Gary SObers ( the greatest cricketer ) also played his part.

Infact, he dropped lot of catches from SMG . SMG himself wrote about this episode

Eventhough Dilip Sardesai ( father of Rajdeep sardesai of NDTV ) scored well ( infact a century and double century )

Sunny overtook every body in that series and went on to record highest number of runs in a series - 774 to be precise.

After that SUnny never looked back

I have just started this very interesting posting and in due course will post more memorable matches soon and interesting scenes


In the second test - SMG

[S.Balaji]

Dear friends,

Indian Cricket , in my opinion shall be split - like before Christ and after Christ --


Before SMG and after SMG

SMG was the first Indian cricketer to bring fame and name to Indian Cricket . He started with a bang right from the first series with Westindies and was very consistent.

I wish we categorise like :

before 1970 - bedi / pras / venkat / chandra / farokh / sardesai / ajit wadekar / subash gupte / lala amarnath etc etc

1970 - 1977 - The glorious period of SMG / GRV / Solkar / etc etc

1978 - 1989 - Kapil dev ( in my opinion , the greatest Indian Cricketer , even better than Sachin and SMG ) / Sandeep Patil / Binny / Madan lal / Kirti Azad / Yashpal sharma etc etc

1989 onwards - Sachin / Sanjay manjrekar / Dravid / Ganguly / Hajbajan / ANil Kumble / Srinath / Prasad /Azar / Jadeja


Looking forward to healthy discussions

[S.Balaji]

I wish to share with you all guys , a fantastic test between India and west indies - in Chepauk - 1974-75 series.

That series was instrumental in bringing out greats like :

1. Viv richards
2. Gordon greenidge
3. Andy roberts

The first test was played in Bangalore. India lost heavily ( pataudi was the captain ). In this match - Gordon greenidge and Viv made their debuts.

WHile Gordon scored well , Viv flopped. He was dismissed by Chandrasekar twice and had no clue to what he was bowling !!!

This fact was admitted by Viv himsel in one programme.

He was almost dropped for the next test in Delhi but luckily was selected. When he was nought , he was caught at forward shortleg and the bowler was Venkat but the Umpire did not rule him out.
Viv went on to score 194 not out !!!! in that innings and went on to establish himself as one of the most dangerous batsman in the world . He virtually ruled Cricket like an emperor.

More about this famous series soon dear friends.

[hehehewalrus]

Dear Friends,

SMG - Gavaskar , made his debut atlast and scored well in that match.

You know , the first run scored by SMG was actually a legbye !!!!
...
Eventhough Dilip Sardesai ( father of Rajdeep sardesai of NDTV ) scored well ( infact a century and double century )

Sunny overtook every body in that series and went on to record highest number of runs in a series - 774 to be precise.
After that SUnny never looked back


Dear bala sir,
a couple of points to add to your post.
there was not much difference between Dilip and Sunny in that series. SMG has 774 and Dilip had 642, which is basically a matter of 1-2 innings. Dilip himself said in one interview that the bowling attack was very weak, they had no genuine world class bowler.

SMG was the Dravid of yesteryear - damn good on decent attacks on good pitches, ordinary on bad pitches and great attacks(This does not mean I am putting him down, I am just referring to England 1974, England 1982 and WI 1982-83 and WI 1983-84. In Dravid's case, Pak 1998-99, Aus 1999-00, SA 1999-00, Aus 2004-05)

[hehehewalrus]

He was almost dropped for the next test in Delhi but luckily was selected.
I think this was because Lawrence Rowe had an upset stomach


When he was nought , he was caught at forward shortleg and the bowler was Venkat but the Umpire did not rule him out.

I think you have read the book 'The Burning Finger' by Madhav Gothoskar :)

Tell us your personal recollections of 2 great test matches, the ones at Eden and Chepauk. I think India won by 85 and 100 runs.

[alwarpet_andavan]

Hehe/Balaji
I thought i'd say something on this thread but on seconds thoughts, i'd rather read on.......
You guys are a mine of cricinfo :)

[S.Balaji]

[quote=S.Balaji]
Dear bala sir,
a couple of points to add to your post.
SMG was the Dravid of yesteryear - damn good on decent attacks on good pitches, ordinary on bad pitches and great attacks(This does not mean I am putting him down, I am just referring to England 1974, England 1982 and WI 1982-83 and WI 1983-84. In Dravid's case, Pak 1998-99, Aus 1999-00, SA 1999-00, Aus 2004-05)

Dear Walrus,

SMG also scored runs in 1976 when we toured West indies after the 74-75 series.

The bowling was spearheaded by :

1. Holding ( by that time, he was proclaimed the best bowler )
2. Andy roberts at his peak
3. Colin Croft

Sunny scored 2 centuries besides a couple of good inniings.

The series also included the famous win of India ( supposed to be the largest 4th innings total a team had chased and won )

That was one of those highs of SMG. Besides SMG also had faced :

1. Roberts
2. Holding
3. Vanburn Holder
4. Colin Croft
5. Marshall ( he did not do well initially but won over him subsequently )
6. Imran khan
7. Sarfraz Nawaz
8. Bob Willis
9. John Snow ( he did not succeed intially )
10. Wasim Akram
11. Richard Hadlee
12. Ian Botham
13. Jeff Thompson ( not at his best but )

Sunny had scored lots of runs against the above attach on various pitches including docile ones.

Suny did not do well against - Lilee .

Oops, this topic is getting diverted now. Lets focus on memorable matches of yesteryears.

[hehehewalrus]

hi Bala sir, alwarpetji
you guys drive the discussion. I will just chip in from time to time. will take care not to digress. Dont worry, we can talk till the cows come home!

Bala Sir, SMG was god between 1975-82. Rest of the time he was very good, NOT great. Some more similarities of SMG with Dravid: (Red indicates good/great)

Eng:
1971: 144@24.00
1974:217@36.00 (fabulous actually - the 57 and 101 were epics)
1972-73:224@25.00 (v Poor attack)
1984-85: 140@17.50
1979: damn good

Aus:
1981 Failure
1977-78 Okay(Feeble Aussie team)

WI:
1975-76 Damn good no doubt!
1970-71 Shillingford+Noriega(Poor attack)
1978-79 742 runs: Clark, Shivnarine, Marshall (Damn poor attack)
1982-83 Failure
1983-84 Good(never mind the 236 booster)

Definitely better than everyone except Lloyd, Chappell and Amarnath

[S.Balaji]

hi Bala sir, alwarpetji
you guys drive the discussion. I will just chip in from time to time. will take care not to digress. Dont worry, we can talk till the cows come home!

Bala Sir, SMG was god between 1975-82. Rest of the time he was very good, NOT great. Some more similarities of SMG with Dravid: (Red indicates good/great)

Eng:
1971: 144@24.00
1974:217@36.00 (fabulous actually - the 57 and 101 were epics)
1972-73:224@25.00 (v Poor attack)
1984-85: 140@17.50
1979: damn good

Aus:
1981 Failure
1977-78 Okay(Feeble Aussie team)

WI:
1975-76 Damn good no doubt!
1970-71 Shillingford+Noriega(Poor attack)
1978-79 742 runs: Clark, Shivnarine, Marshall (Damn poor attack)
1982-83 Failure
1983-84 Good(never mind the 236 booster)

Definitely better than everyone except Lloyd, Chappell and Amarnath


Hello Walrus,

1979- Oval - SMG scored 221 and it was a memorable knock. We could have won the match but for some poor decisions . Vishy was going strong when a drive halfcock was picked by Derick Randall in the covers and it was declared out.
The margin was just 7 runs in the match . It became a draw but it was one of those epic innings of SMG.

WI in India - 83-84

SMG scored 120 in Delhi . Before that match was Kanpur test when in the second innings, SMGs bat flew out of his hand while facing Marshall's delivery and everybody started abusing him and said that thats the end of SMG.
THis innings was a lightening innings wherein SMG started hooking all bouncers to show that he is good at that also.

There was another 90 in Ahmedabad in the same series which was another Tsunami !!!!. Unfortunately we lost the test.


I think we should approach this forum series by series.

Sorry I am goofing up.

[hehehewalrus]

Bala Sir,
Kotla 121 and Ahmedabad 90 were gems without a doubt. Kotla hundred, 50 off 37 balls, 60 not out at lunch and 100 off 94 balls. Ahmedabad hammered 80+ when first wicket fell at 127. (Though it was just Marshall and Holding for these tests)

But Marshall breathed fire at Kanpur & Calcutta and SMG wasnt equal to the task(it is another matter that none could have survived :D )

Aside: SMG in 1970-75 was Version I - cuts, pulls, hooks
SMG post 75 Version II was the mainstay of Indian batting - avoided all horizontal shots till the Kotla 83 innings

Sure..pls carry on series by series...80s were quite dull, so please cover more of the 70s.

Just to add, The hindu brought out a curtain raiser on the 74-75 series and N.Ram the then Sports Editor, picked out debutants Greenidge and Richards as the men to watch. Vaai muhurtham :)

Chandra missed the 2nd Test where Viv made 192. Venkat was made captain. Pataudi making a comeback couldnt handle Roberts.

Eagerly awaiting your first hand recollection of Madras, Cal tests.

[S.Balaji]

Hello Walrus,

Before commecing on Chennai and Cal tests , wish to add one point : 1974 series in India :

1. Venkat was made captain for Delhi test as Tiger was injured.

2. The same Venkat was made 12th man for Chennai test !!!


1983- Series in India

1. Kanpur - Marshall was everywhere and as you said, breathed fire and infact scored 90+ also .

2. Koltakka - Sunny got out to the first ball of the match !!! Caught down the leg side by Jeff Dujon .
In the second innings he was going good but chased a wild delivery from Holding and got caught behind .

Till today, SUnny feels bad about that inning.


YES , FROM NOW WE SHALL MOVE TO THE GREAT EVENTS THAT HAPPENED TO THOSE OLD TESTS.

I wish more postings come out from others who were my peers during those golden days

[hehehewalrus]

The precursor to every season is the Irani Cup. SMG and Vishy made merry scoring 156 and a masterly 200 respectively. Pataudi in the evening of his career struggled to find his usually sharp instincts.


Hello Walrus,

Before commecing on Chennai and Cal tests , wish to add one point : 1974 series in India :
1. Venkat was made captain for Delhi test as Tiger was injured.
2. The same Venkat was made 12th man for Chennai test !!!

It was actually Calcutta Test I think.

bala Sir, this is what I read in Rajan Bala's "All the beautiful Boys". It such either during this series or some other, Pataudi had left the field for injury and the vice captain Bedi too went off. At this point, the players expected Venkat as the seniormost player to be the natural candidate to lead the team. Just then, SMG stepped in and informed that the management had instructed him to take over the leadership should such a situation arise. The fact that this was entrusted confidentially to a junior player without the knowledge of a senior(venkat) shocked everyone.

Venkat was not even informed of the captaincy removal - this was announced by the pilot on the flight!

That said, I am not making a case for poor venkat here :lol2: - he has perhaps the worst bowling average among all Indian spinners of last 30 years - a very good bad-wicket bowler but too modest on good wickets. Venkat and Srikkanth are cricket gods in TN but really mediocre even by Indian standards if one cares to look up the records.



2. Koltakka - Sunny got out to the first ball of the match !!! Caught down the leg side by Jeff Dujon .
In the second innings he was going good but chased a wild delivery from Holding and got caught behind .


I have fond memories of the 2nd innings. I think SMG smashed 5 fours as he raced to 20 in the 2nd innings. There was a collapse and India was soon 36-5 at stumps.

The next day I and my brother who were in primary school finished our half yearly exam and impatiently waited for the school bus to take us home so that we could go home and listen to the commentary. We got off the bus and ran at full speed towards the house, the pencils and sharpeners rattling inside our pencil boxes. As we turned into our lane and went running, one of our neighbours, a college student called Ramesh anna, shouted from inside his house - "Odaama medhuva ponga, India all out 90 !! " :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

[S.Balaji]

Walrus,

Nice posting.

I wish you go back 35 years and you will get the truth .

You know why Venkat's average is mediocre, its because during those days the three jiants :

1. Bedi
2. Pras
3. Chandra

were on top of the world but THEY NEEDED SOMEBODY TO CONTROL THE FLOW OF RUNS. They found Venkat as an able guy who can control one end so that there is enough pressure built and you get wickets automatically , the other end.
This is the whole truth behind Venkat's record.

Venkat had variety . Even the great Pras acknowledges Venkat is much better bowler. Yes , Venkat always bowls defensively as he was asked to play that role.

Venkat also had exceptional fielding skills . He along with Solkar ( sad , Eknath Solkar passed away recently ) were two great close in fielders.

I will summarise this way, while other fielders were butter fingered ( including SUnny and VIshy !!! ) , Venkat and SOlkar came to the rescue of the 3 above great bowlers.

You know, during those days, a slip fielder ( for India ) is supposed to be somebody who cannot be placed elsewhere !!. Sunny and Vishy were not agile on the field and they became automatic choice for Slip cardon.

It was after Kapil , the situation changed . We had better fielders but still first slip and Second slip went to Vishy and SUnny !!!

COming back to Rajan Bala - RAJAN BALA IS A THONDAR OF VENKAT .

[hehehewalrus]

dear bala sir
i will reply on venkat's stats later. pls go ahead and cover the rest of the test matches. i have some questions over the 1975 world cup after this

[hehehewalrus]

Walrus,
I wish you go back 35 years and you will get the truth .

No need, diligently go thru the records with an open mind, the truth will be self-evident.


They found Venkat as an able guy who can control one end so that there is enough pressure built and you get wickets automatically , the other end. This is the whole truth behind Venkat's record.
I agree with Sentence 1 - venkat was to the trio what Lock was to Laker. Sentence 2 is incomplete - basically venkat wasnt international class!

Here goes:
(player - tests - wkts - avg - no of 5 wkts - wkts/test)

anil 95 tests 461 wkts 28.23 avg 29 5wks 4.85 wkts/test
chandra 58 tests 242 wkts 29.74 avg 16 5wks 4.17 wkts/test
gupte 36 tests 149 wkts 29.55 avg 12 5wks 4.13 wkts/test
bedi 67 tests 266 wkts 28.71 avg 14 5wks 3.97 wkts/test
hirwani 17 tests 66 wkts 30.10 avg 4 5wks 3.88 wkts/test
pras 49 tests 189 wkts 30.38 avg 10 5wks 3.85 wkts/test
mankad 44 tests 162 wkts 32.32 avg 8 5wks 3.68 wkts/test
doshi 33 tests 114 wkts 30.71 avg 6 5wks 3.45 wkts/test
raju 28 tests 93 wkts 30.72 avg 5 5wks 3.32 wkts/test
ahmed 22 tests 68 wkts 30.17 avg 4 5wks 3.09 wkts/test
ghavri 39 tests 109 wkts 33.54 avg 4 5wks 2.79 wkts/test
venkat 57 tests 156 wkts 36.11 avg 3 5wks 2.73 wkts/test

any unbiased person will see that Spin King Venkat is bottom of the list in terms of BOTH WKTS/TEST and AVERAGE - heck, even Karsan Ghavri and Venkatapathy Raju were better than him he he he

Venkat played 57 tests and got 5w in an innings thrice which is a humiliating fact. Please dont even mention his name in the same breath as the Big Three. I wont even mind Ganguly bracketed with Sachin-Dravid-Laxman but Venkat with Pras-Bedi-Chandra? BIG SORRY!

Interestingly my rating of yesteryear indian spinners would be
1. Gupte 2. Bedi 3. Pras 4. Chandra 5. Doshi - Gupte is top of all while places 2-5 will be a tie.

Doshi was unlucky to make his debut at age 32. He was nearly as good as Bedi if you see BSB's figures after 33 tests

33 114 30.71 6 3.45 <- Doshi
33 124 28.67 5 3.76 <-Bedi



Even the great Pras acknowledges Venkat is much better bowler.
Purely out of modesty. Ian Chappell was the best player of spin those days and he rated Pras as one of the all time best offies. Just look at Venkat's record versus:
Aus 38.45
Eng 46.65
NZ 22.81 [ Rabbit killer!!]
Pak 104
Windies 39.47

Assuming your statement is true that Venkat > Pras and therefore world best spinner ...If these are the records of the worlds best offie, I really regret not becoming a Test batsman :)



Venkat also had exceptional fielding skills
Whole heartedly agree. That saved his skin - otherwise he would have been dropped in favor of Rajinder Goel or Padmakar Shivalkar or Raghuram Bhat.

TN media has simply over-hyped Venkat like anything while the stats show the stark reality. If you will kindly remove your bias, you will see where Venkat really stands. BTW, I have not even considered Harbhajan here, Bhajju can achieve in a series what Venkat achieved in a career.

[hehehewalrus]

V.V Kumar was unlucky not to play more games. TN team in the 60s had Venkat, V Kumar and Vaidyanathan as the spin attack. Vaidyanathan is none other than the dad of tennis "star" Nirupama!! V.Sivaramakrishnan's elder brother V.Ramnarayan was employed with SBI Hyderabad and played for Hyderabad. He was also a test offspin contender but got blocked by Venkat

[hehehewalrus]

waiting for your report of Tests 3 and 4

[S.Balaji]

Hello Walrus,

Excellent analysis of facts . Keep it up. You are very knowledable on records and statistics. Nice to note this.

Wish to add one more to the Calcutta debacle - 1983 series after Sunny scored 5 boundaries etc . I could see Viv Clapping from the slips appreciating the Little master. Immediately after some deliveries, Sunny lashed at a very wild delivery and got caught behind.
The second innings was all Holding and he worked up liquid pace and breathed fire and mopped up the whole Indian battling line up.

In that series, Holding was using a shorter run up. If you had seen the good old Holding in the late 70s, he was called the - ROLLS ROYCE of cricket as he used to have a SMOOTH, BEAUTIFUL runup ( very long run up ) to crease and will hurl the cherry. He used to hold the ball like a lemon !!
Subsequently Walsh followed his style.
Holding and Marshall both took 33 + wickets in that series.

I am stunned by the point by point statistics and your counterpunch launched on me on Venkat !!!. Hats off.
I must acknowledge that you are a great Cricket follower.

Great mate . Keep it up.

I AM UNABLE TO START MY FAVOURITE SERIES 1974-75 as our topic got diverted on 2 things :

1. Discussion / debate on SMG
2. on Venkat !!!

I will definitely start this famous series shortly. Thanks mate for giving me an opportunity

[S.Balaji]

V.V Kumar was unlucky not to play more games. TN team in the 60s had Venkat, V Kumar and Vaidyanathan as the spin attack. Vaidyanathan is none other than the dad of tennis "star" Nirupama!! V.Sivaramakrishnan's elder brother V.Ramnarayan was employed with SBI Hyderabad and played for Hyderabad. He was also a test offspin contender but got blocked by Venkat

Walrus,

VVK was unlucky but he had his limitations as a batsman in the sense , it was true that he moved away in the series against WI . Sad we also did not have any enough skull protectors ( what SMG used ), helmets, arm guards etc etc . Otherwise, VVK would have survived. VVK along with Venkat were 2 kings in Ranji Trophy ( South zone ). In every match in the first innings Venkat would have taken 5 wickets and in the second VVK would have taken 5 w.

VVK played for long - SBI and Venkat was for - SPIC etc .
Ramnarayan was a good bowler but could not go beyond Ranji

Even V. Sivaramakrishnan was not fortunate as he had all the potential. Played well in Ranji scored tons of runs . I remember Abdul Jabbar also scoring double century and was very consistent.
V.S. could not make to higher levels as during those years - IT WAS MUMBAI VS DELHI !!!. SMG packed his favourite bunch of players and Delhi guys ( Bedi ) were equal to his task !!!.
SMG was very biased and partial during those days.

There were other guys like - Prabakar / Kedarnath / Bharat Reddy - All from SBI . They were like DEMIGODS for us during our School / College days when we used to go either Marina ground / VIveka college / University union etc etc to watch these great guys play.

I am not sure whether you know the list mentioned above.
Kedar was a class act and he used to play like GRV. Silken touch and full of class.

Oops, I am getting deeper into TN cricket now .

You know cricket is a great treasure brought to us by Brtishers.

Indian cricket is a wonder

TN cricket is full of mouth cricket !!!

Few guys were lucky like Srikanth. I wonder , for the kind of chances he got, if we had given to WV Raman or Ramesh or Sriram, they would have done much better.

Srikanth was a very lucky guy. Probably Guruvayoorappan saved him ( his favourite God )

Mate, I have a lot to write about Indian Cricket.

I WILL COME BACK AT YOU - ON VENKAT AGAIN LATER !!!

[S.Balaji]

Walrus,

I fondly remember Padmakar Shivalkar - Mumbai. Great spinner who was no inferior to the magnificient quartet ( i will add Venkat also !!! ). Unfortunately he could not make it to tests for obvious reasons. He was doing extremely well in domestic circuit . Sad he faded away from the scene.

Dilip Doshi - had to wait for Bedi to retire and performed reasonably well though he was not a crafty bowler. Not attacking. A very defensive type .

I wonder how guys like - Shivlal Yadav could get opportunities.

Probably, its poorva jenma puniyam !!!. SY also took 100 wickets.


I also wish to analyse and discuss on certain low profile guys but who contributed IMMENSELY TO OUR GLORIOUS VICTORIES AND ACHIEVEMENTS. I wish to highlight a few :

1. Yashpal Sharma
2. Kirti Azad
3. Madan Lal
4. Roger Binny
5. Sadanand VIsvanath ( remember audi car of Ravi and India's victory in Australia )
6. Balwinder Sandhu
7. Abid Ali
8. Eknath SOlkar
9. Farokh Engineer - Stylish , class
10. Kirmani
11. Karsan Ghavri
12. Sandeep patil - sad sad , he quickly faded

etc etc. You have anything to add to this list ??

[S.Balaji]

Dear Walrus ( whats your real name mate !!?? )

My humble opinion is - one cannot be judged purely by statistics alone.
We should land up in a virtual situation and go backwards to those relevant years and days and we will realise what happened actually.
For example : to win a match, a single cricketer cannot achieve it on his own - of course - Turbanator is an exception - I love his aggression - Calcutta / Chennai were Harbajan's treasure

It has to be a team effort to win matches or save them atleast.\

Venkat was a great team man during those days. If the other 3 could have better bowling averages , its mainly due to Venkat's controlling line and length on the other end. Venkat was very good at that .
Today , if we analyse GRV's record and average , its low below Saurav and Dilip Vengsarkar but it doesnot mean that Vishy is inferior to them.
One can write a big thesis on Vishy.

Again Shivalkar was a class act but could not even make it to Indian 11.

Sandeep brought new dimension to Indian batting . He was the most aggressive batsman after kapil in the early 80s. Those innings in Adelaide - Lilly / pascoe / Hogg etc etc and against Willis in Old Trafford - 6 fours in an over were all terrific things of Sandeep.
He also did extremely well in 1983 world cup.

But Sandeep was out of the scence immediately. Today,if you consider Sandeep's statistics it will show him in poor light BUT I HAVE SEEN HIM on line and he was the most promising player in the 80s.

Thats the moral of the story.

[S.Balaji]

[tscii:c2655e3da5]Dear Walrus,

Thanks for giving me an opportunity to go back by 30 years and recollect. In fact, I had to refer to my class mates and friends to get a feeler of the GREAT TEST MATCH .

The Madras Test – 1975 Pongal season ( during those years there will always be a test during Pongal holidays ).
Venkat was declared 12th man and there was huge furore on this and there were rumours that match will be disrupted but ultimately nothing happened as we all know Chennai fans are always knowledable and very sportive

Sunny did not play as he was injured. There were wild comments floated around that Sunny was scared to face Andy and Co and that’s why he himself declared unfit !!
Pataudi was the captain.
The start was awful.
Andy Roberts breathed fire and he was everywhere. Took 7 wickets for a small sum. It was a bouncy and fast paced track only Farokh could reach double figures – This I mean the recognized frontline batsman.
Farokh got out to a controversial decision – Gordon Greenidge took the catch in the slip / Gully cardon just inches from the ground. This was the first match incidentally to be covered by our Doordharshan ( Now podhigai channel !!! )
Ofcourse there was Vishy with his favourite square cuts. At one stage , Clive Lloyd kept 2 gullies but still Vishy could penetrate and was getting boundaries at a faster pace. It was one of the best knocks by an Indian and can be matched only by VVS in Koltakka recently. Of course there was another great inning by SMG at Bangalore in 1986 tour of Pakistan – 96 and got out to a poor decision ( oops , I am deviating )
Coming back to the topic – Poor Vishy had only 2 guys to accompany finally – they were Bedi ( 15 runs ) and Chandra !!! . Vishy managed to get 75 additional runs in the process and India got out for 190 .

WI – Viv and Clive played reasonably well in first innings and Pras took 5 wickets. I distinctly remember – Andy Roberts hitting 2 towering sixes of Pras at the end. WI scored 192 in the process.

The Second innings was not great to mention except that Vishy against scored 40+ and Gaikwad played extremely well to score 80 . We ended up 250 +. The final target was 248 ++

All drama happened in WI second innings –

Clive Lloyd was just middling the ball and one delivery from Pras he stepped out and tried to hit out of the ground and got stumped sweetly by Farokh. It was an unforgettable stumping and I still remember that. Clive later commented that if he had connected it , it would have crossed the Canal !!!
Another interesting point – kalicharan was going well and was taking control over the match when Ashok Mankad had him run out – A direct throw from fine leg I think which I still feel that it is not out but for the throw , the umpire got so excited and gave out. This decision was argued for several days and finally put to rest.
Pras again took 4 wickets and ended the match – Victory to India !!

We all celebrated as it was co-incided with Pongal !!!. It was an unforgettable match and still lasts fondly in my memory.

Summary :

Vishy’s knock – 97 n.o. stands still in memory . This adds value as he did not score century. Chandra was quite frequently moving away from the stumps but managed to support Vishy for long
Pras – magnficient bowling , very crafty, teasing arc , line and length – an object lesson to all youngsters.
Vishy’s flashing square cuts - despite Clive keeping 2 gullies were all great things
But for the controversial runout of Kali , the match would have ended much closer .
Ashok Mankad’s only contribution in this match was that great direct hit from fine leg area !!!


[/tscii:c2655e3da5]

[S.Balaji]

Hello Walrus

I feel now as if I had played that match !!!. Its so exhausting now.

But thanks for making me go back by 30 looooong years !!!

[hehehewalrus]

hi bala sir,
thanks for your sporting acknowledgement. Hope I reciprocate your words. Venkat was undoubtedly a great in Ranji but like many of our players lacked the killer instinct to repeat the success on an international level.

In the Calcutta Test 83-84 2nd innings, it was Marshall all the way with 6-37. Holding grabbed 3 of the top 5, next day Marshall took 4 of the last 5. You will remember the team bus stoned on its way to the hotel.

Thanks for pointing out Holding's efforts that series. I always missed out Holding's bowling that series.

V.Siva was indeed unlucky. He was also an excellent fielder with over 100 catches in Ranji. I had the opportunity to see him play an exhibition match where he nearly took his team to victory with some impossible sixes in his late 30s. He was a lion-hearted cricketer!!!

Have you read the articles by V.Ramnarayan called Curd-rice Cricket in chennaionline? I am sure you will enjoy them.

Jabbar was a brilliant hardworking guy. His son Tanveer Jabbar promised much for TN but faded. Jabbar's brother Abdul Azeem was a rousing strokeplayer for Hyderabad.

Do you know about any inside story of Kirmani's dropping for the 1979 England tour which Venkat led? How did Bharat Reddy and Khanna get selected?

Sunny was very biased against Doshi and was responsible for his exit in favor of Shastri. Though Shastri to his credit performed very well as a newcomer.

I used to read about Kedarnath, Manoj Turakhia, the Shanbal brothers, PC Prakash and some other Jolly Rovers, India Pistons, Chemplast cricketers in the TN league. Did the singers Unnikrishnan and Sanjay Subramaniam get to play the TN league or did they step into singing before that? :)

Ramesh, Arun Lal and Carlton Saldanha are quite unlucky unlike Srikkanth. It must be admitted that Srikkanth was very good for ODI's though. He was dropped from tests after 1981-82 in favor of Gaekwad(who was excellent in Ranji 82-83). But Sri single-handedly demolished Srilanka in the One day series 82-83 with some fantastic hitting and since then was selected for one day and Gaekwad for tests.

I read somewhere that Sadanand Viswa got spoiled by wine and other bad habits and faded. Is the rumour about L.Siva and drugs true?

Among the cricketers you mentioned, Madan and Binny are really good. Rest were a little bit lazy, especially Sandeep Patil. He was an extremely lazy fellow at the international level. I have read his book Sandy Storm.

Richards never liked Willis in his county matches with Somerset. He happened to hear about Willis being smacked by Sandeep for 6 fours in the 1981 series. Sandeep met Viv in the 1983 world cup and introduced himself as his fan. Viv asked if he was guy who hit 24 off Willis earlier and took him for a drink. They later met before the final and Viv was delighted that Sandeep had hit Willis for 24 once again in the semifinal and took him to the bar again!

[hehehewalrus]

[tscii:7c3bec67a3]
Thanks for giving me an opportunity to go back by 30 years and recollect. In fact, I had to refer to my class mates and friends to get a feeler of the GREAT TEST MATCH .

hi bala sir, that was a fantastic effort from you. Thanks a lot for the precious memories!! :clap:

It is fantastic to hear first hand account of this great match. What are the games you have attended in person at the stadium??

Roberts was incredible in this game with 20 ovs, 7-64 in first innigns and 5-57 in the second.



Clive Lloyd was just middling the ball and one delivery from Pras he stepped out and tried to hit out of the ground and got stumped sweetly by Farokh. It was an unforgettable stumping and I still remember that. Clive later commented that if he had connected it , it would have crossed the Canal !!!


But alas! Super Cat Clive had his revenge in the final test at the newly constructed Wankhede Stadium in Bombay, as he not only blasted 242 but in the second innings blasted 37 runs off a mere 19 balls to set up the declaration and the series clinching effort in the 4th innings.



Vishy’s knock – 97 n.o. stands still in memory .
He also hit 52 and 139 in the 3rd test at Calcutta which brought india back into the series. Do you have any recollections of that?

About this test, I read somewhere that West Indies ended the 4th day strongly at 150-3 chasing 300 to win the series. The Indian team went into the bar to discuss the strategy. After a couple of hours of relaxing and strategising, Pataudi decided to use the underutilised Chandra and wrote down his name on some paper as the lead bowler. The next day Chandra wiped out the innings before lunch and India won by 85 runs.

[/tscii:7c3bec67a3]

[S.Balaji]

Dear Walrus,

Great to see your posting and nice to observe that you have INDEPTH INFORMATION AND KNOWLEDGE ON OUR CRICKET.

I had a wonderful opportunity to see the Madras Test 1975 but during those days, radio was the medium and we used to just sit eagerly before the radio - me , my brothers, my senior cousins my father and at times my mother also.

My cousins were veterans of cricket before 70 and they used to tell me that they will go and sleep in MAC stadium the previous night to get early morning ticket so that they will get the best spot !!

As is always said, the D - Stand was the most popular stand during our days . I am not sure now as I have moved out of Chennai since 94 and I was based in Mumbai for 9 long years and then I am now in Uganda !!

Coming back to the topic of CHennai test - as I mentioned earlier, Alwvn Kalcharan was going well and but for the controversial run out from Ashok Mankad ( can you pls check with somebody whether the throw came from deep square leg or fine leg ?? ) . It was a direct throw and the umpire got so thrilled that he gave out.

There was no third umpire and TV technology was naive and amateurish and hence nobody could conclude but Kali was very confident that the Umpire spoilt the match.

I have gone through your previous posting and will respond point by point shortly

Love

S.Balaji

[S.Balaji]

[quote="hehehewalrus"]hi bala sir,
thanks for your sporting acknowledgement. Hope I reciprocate your words. Venkat was undoubtedly a great in Ranji but like many of our players lacked the killer instinct to repeat the success on an international level.

Response :

Venkat was reasonably successful. During those years , not many matches were played in a year compared to now. Besides, when Pras is around, you cannot think of any other off-spinner as he was at his awesome best. Very very crafty guy. Also, for Pat , pras was his favourite.

Quote :
In the Calcutta Test 83-84 2nd innings, it was Marshall all the way with 6-37. Holding grabbed 3 of the top 5, next day Marshall took 4 of the last 5. You will remember the team bus stoned on its way to the hotel.

Response :
You are right but I still remember Holding running like a 100 metres race like Ben Johson !! that evening and ripped through the top order . Yes SUnny got the maximum insult in that match. I think after this treatment by the crowd only, Sunny DECIDED NOT TO PLAY IN CALCUTTA FOR EVER.

Thanks for pointing out Holding's efforts that series. I always missed out Holding's bowling that series.

Response :

My humble opinion is , probably Holding is the greatest bowler of my period . Even Dennis Lilee / Andy Roberts will come after him


Quote :
V.Siva was indeed unlucky. He was also an excellent fielder with over 100 catches in Ranji. I had the opportunity to see him play an exhibition match where he nearly took his team to victory with some impossible sixes in his late 30s. He was a lion-hearted cricketer!!!

Response :

Poor V.Siva as he is one of those great Ranji players who could not make it big. I have seen him playing tennis ball cricket in P.S.High School once in very close quarters and is a very nice man.
I have seen his innings in Viveka several times ( Incidentally, I am a product of Vivekananda College ). Playing for TNCA first division.

Quote :
Have you read the articles by V.Ramnarayan called Curd-rice Cricket in chennaionline? I am sure you will enjoy them.

Response :
Could not read . I will do it.

Quote :
Jabbar was a brilliant hardworking guy. His son Tanveer Jabbar promised much for TN but faded. Jabbar's brother Abdul Azeem was a rousing strokeplayer for Hyderabad.

Response :
Jabbar, as i had mentioned was a nice teamman and played well for SBI. It was Jabbar , Prabakar , Kedarnath ( we call him as Kedari ) , Raghavan ( very senior man - spinner ) , Babul nath , C.S.Suresh Kumar ( played one test ), Barath Reddy - wonderful characters from SBI.
We used to go regularly for HIndu TRophy to watch these guys play.
By the way, is HIndu trophy being played now ??

Quote :
Do you know about any inside story of Kirmani's dropping for the 1979 England tour which Venkat led? How did Bharat Reddy and Khanna get selected?

Response :
I think this was the aftermath of Kerry Packer episode. When Packer invited all top players, I guess he invited SMG / VIshy /Kiri also . SMG expressed his intentions to the Board initially as he wanted to have a go at the top pace bowling in the world but was rejected and hence withdrew .
However,I think Kiri got a bad name in this episode and was not considered for the 1979 tour .
Here, if you analyse the then scenario- we played against 2nd Aussie team under the GRAND OLD MAN - Bobby Simpson - Old Thommo was there . Lilee went to Packer
Sunny scored 3 centuries

WI - Grade 2 team came here under Kali's captaincy - Marshall made his debut , Sylvester Clarke etc etc were bowlers and SUnny made merry - scoring double century in Mumbai , ( got out to the first ball in Bangalore !! ), scored well in kol , failed miserably in Chennai ( vishy was the king in that match ).

I am just mentioning those series as all the top stars were playing for Packer at that time.

Quote :
Sunny was very biased against Doshi and was responsible for his exit in favor of Shastri. Though Shastri to his credit performed very well as a newcomer.

Response :
Could be right. Not sure but Doshi was already aged at that time. Ravi was summoned to New ZEaland tour overnight after following the Australian series of 1980 - 1-1 tie series. Which saw all tamash - SMG staging a walkout with Chauhan ( WILL WRITE IN DETAIL SOON ABOUT THAT SERIES ALSO )

Quote :
I used to read about Kedarnath, Manoj Turakhia, the Shanbal brothers, PC Prakash and some other Jolly Rovers, India Pistons, Chemplast cricketers in the TN league. Did the singers Unnikrishnan and Sanjay Subramaniam get to play the TN league or did they step into singing before that? :)

Response :
Unni and Sanjay played for MCC before starting singing, I think
The list of names you had made above again has made me go backwards by several years !!! ( gnabagam varudhey , gnabagam varudhey , pokishamaaga manadhil pudhaintha ninaivugal ellam !!! )
There was also :
G.A.Pratap Kumar( we call him GAP ), P.C. Naresh, K. Srinath ( Srikanth's brother and better player than Srikanth !! )
Ram Prakash, C.S.Suresh Kumar, Babul Nath, T.A.Sekar, Bharat Reddy etc etc.

Quote :
Ramesh, Arun Lal and Carlton Saldanha are quite unlucky unlike Srikkanth. It must be admitted that Srikkanth was very good for ODI's though. He was dropped from tests after 1981-82 in favor of Gaekwad(who was excellent in Ranji 82-83). But Sri single-handedly demolished Srilanka in the One day series 82-83 with some fantastic hitting and since then was selected for one day and Gaekwad for tests.

Response :
Sadagopan Ramesh is really unlucky as he played well against Pak and Srilanka. I think he got injured in that terrible series in Ausie - 2000 under Sachin and never could come back except that he scored some runs in Chennai test against Ausie .
Arun Lal - a very mediocre cricketer , not a great batsman , he had his limitations, not a stroke player- but now making money in TV !!
Carlton - Nice player - played for Blr but faded away as SUnny was experimenting with guys like - GHULAM PARKAR !!!

Quote :
I read somewhere that Sadanand Viswa got spoiled by wine and other bad habits and faded. Is the rumour about L.Siva and drugs true?

Response :
Fine wicketkeeper- sadanand - will mostly come head tonsured !!!. He was one of the success story of our famous Audi car victory in Ausie under SMGs captaincy. faded away soon. No idea on his bad habits.
L.Siva - great leg spinner - was backed by Dilip vengsarkar and Kapil for some time faded away -
I had also heard rumours on his personal front but in the absence of authetic information, I will not comment on this.


Thank you friend, its bye from Uganda !!!

[S.Balaji]

Hello Walrus,

Wish to add some more interesting points to that series of WI in India :

1. Kanput test - It was Marshall Marshall Marshall . In the series before the world cup, India toured WI under kapil's captaincy. SMG was sacked as we lost 3-0 in Pakistan due to Imran's INDIPPERS !!! ( I will come to you later )
Greenidge scored runs.

When India started their reply - SMG was beaten the first ball and I think the second ball, he was consumed by Dujon- Caught Dujon bowled Marshall.

I have to go back to our tour of WI . In that series, Marshall tried a new approach

Going round the wicket and targeted everybody including SUnny.

Sunny was a failure in that series except for one century ( it was his 27th ) and that too it was a rain affected match.

Marshall was taking SUnny's wicket regularly in that series.

We all thought that Marshall will again win over SUnny n India also and he did not disappoint us. In both the innings SUnny got out to Marshall. I still remember the delivery in second innings, when SUnny tried to loosen his grip while facing Marshall express delivery but the bat flew from his Hand !!!
Every body said SHAME SHAME SHAME !!!

There was a huge expectation on SUnny in Delhi as we all thought if he fails here, Kapil is going to axe him .

IT WAS ONE OF THE MOST EXCITING AND MEMORABLE INNINGS BY SUNNY I HAVE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE .

That 120 was unforgettable.

Sunny right from the start went on the offensive ( he started hooking from that match which he had curbed in his entire career for the sake of team ).

Runs were flowing from Sunny's bat and at one stage Clive kept 2 fielders in the fine leg and long leg but sunny kept on finding gaps in between the 2 fielders !!!

By lunch sunny touched 60 !! It was an achievement considering his style of batting.

THere was one close call after that when Holding had him trapped right in front but the umpire saved SUnny.

FInally, he reached 100 with a flash .

All those who bowled - Andy / Marshall / Holding all got severely punished.

Finally he got out to a poor straight forward delivery from Larry GOmes !!!!!!

I THOUGHT I SHOULD MENTION THIS INNINGS OF SUNNY as after this innings, Marshall was reasonably tamed and India faced him with better confidence.

Sad , amarnath who did extremely well in WI and the world cup was scoring telephone numbers !!!! 2 1 0 2 1 etc etc

In the second innings sunny was out LBW to HOlding and he himself walked even before the Umpire could raise his finger


I CONSIDER THIS POSTING AS A PRELUDE TO ANOTHER WONDERFUL INNIGS OF SUNNY IN AHMEDABAD THE NEXT MATCH WHERE HE SCORED 90 RUNS AT A MUCH FASTER PACE

Bye for now

[hehehewalrus]

I had a wonderful opportunity to see the Madras Test 1975 but during those days, radio was the medium and we used to just sit eagerly before the radio - me , my brothers, my senior cousins my father and at times my mother also.
Could you please recollect the commentators and your views on them? I think it may have been Vijay Merchant, Raju Bharatan, Suresh Saraiya to name just 2, since I have seen photos of Raju and Vijay Saab in the commentary box. BTW, was Raju's narration similar to his writing style? Although some of my friends came close to be admitted in Kilpauk Mental Hospital after reading couple of Raju's articles :lol: , I am a big fan of Raju and have a file with some 110 articles by him



Coming back to the topic of CHennai test - as I mentioned earlier, Alwvn Kalcharan was going well and but for the controversial run out from Ashok Mankad ( can you pls check with somebody whether the throw came from deep square leg or fine leg ?? ) . It was a direct throw and the umpire got so thrilled that he gave out.
From what I heard, it was from deep point with one stump visible and kalli decide to run since it went to Mankad, usually a horrible fielder.



My humble opinion is , probably Holding is the greatest bowler of my period . Even Dennis Lilee / Andy Roberts will come after him
Thanks. I spent the last weekend with a new DVD of some Aus-WI matches in the 80s. Will play them often to enjoy 'Whispering Death's bowling.



Could not read . I will do it.
I had that file of Ram Sir's articles somewhere. If I find, i will email you. Pls pm ur email address.



Jabbar, as i had mentioned was a nice teamman and played well for SBI. It was Jabbar , Prabakar , Kedarnath ( we call him as Kedari ) , Raghavan ( very senior man - spinner ) , Babul nath , C.S.Suresh Kumar ( played one test ), Barath Reddy - wonderful characters from SBI.
By the way, is HIndu trophy being played now ??

Yes it is still being played. My favorite memory of Jabbar is the 84-85 Duleep Trophy final when he played a match winning 77 to take South to victory over North. I think you are confusing C Suresh with TE Srinivasan. C Suresh made his Ranji debut in 82-83 season only and topped with 481 runs. TE was a vaal-player with a big mouth. Once he sledged Rodney Hogg in the 1979-80 Aussie visit and got bouncers in return. Umpire Gothoskar warned him not to risk his life irritating a pacer like Hogg!



Here, if you analyse the then scenario- we played against 2nd Aussie team under the GRAND OLD MAN - Bobby Simpson - Old Thommo was there
Simmo is my pick for the brainiest cricketer of the century - he is an amazing cricket brain, whether has cricketer or coach. Coming 9 yrs after retirement and hitting 500+ runs vs the Big Three spinners is incredible. Thommo IMHO is another brainless guy like Shoaib Akhtar.



Could be right. Not sure but Doshi was already aged at that time
Age shouldnt be held against Doshi since all spinners mature late. Besides Doshi made his debut in early '79 and was pushed out in early '81 so keeping him for 2 years doesnt make sense. His last game was the Bangalore Test v Pak in 83-84.



G.A.Pratap Kumar( we call him GAP ), P.C. Naresh, K. Srinath ( Srikanth's brother and better player than Srikanth !! ) Ram Prakash, C.S.Suresh Kumar, Babul Nath, T.A.Sekar, Bharat Reddy etc etc.
GAP played for AP. TAS was unlucky that on the 82-83 tour of Pak, some shoddy slipfielding spoilt his figures. He was faster than Kapil then.



Sadagopan Ramesh is really unlucky as he played well against Pak and Srilanka. I think he got injured in that terrible series in Ausie - 2000 under Sachin and never could come back except that he scored some runs in Chennai test against Ausie
Well, compared to Gambhir, Ramesh is inferior. Gambhir is a heavy scorer on the domestic circuit compared to Ramesh and will always be my first choice. Ramesh is more or less in Wasim Jaffer level. He had a great opportunity to play a match winning innings in 2003 Ranji final but flopped.



Arun Lal - a very mediocre cricketer , not a great batsman , he had his limitations, not a stroke player- but now making money in TV !!
Not really! Arun had very good scores whenever given a chance. I cant believe he was dropped in 1986-87 for Srikkanth after scoring 52 and 70 in the only Test he got. He was the best opener we got in the post-Sunny era.
Regarding commentary, Arun and Kirti Azad are the best Indian comms, compared to other crappy speakers(jokers?) like Maninder, Wassan, Mohinder, Yashpal



Carlton - Nice player - played for Blr but faded away as SUnny was experimenting with guys like - GHULAM PARKAR !!!
Correction, Ghulam never got to play a Test after 81-82. He got just a ODI v Windies at Guwahati where he was Man of the Match. But due to age, he wasnt considered. I am okay with guys like him given a chance, considering the fact that Srikkanth got 43 chances to play tests :lol: :lol:



By lunch sunny touched 60 !! It was an achievement considering his style of batting.
Nice memory there!! I still recollect the 12:40 maanila seidhigal which mentioned SMG's score as 60. The day was October 29 1983 and I recollect the Sportstar cover which had the caption "29th century on the 29th of the month"



THere was one close call after that when Holding had him trapped right in front but the umpire saved SUnny.
Sunny was dropped on 28 by Dujon off a mishook



Sad , amarnath who did extremely well in WI and the world cup was scoring telephone numbers !!!! 2 1 0 2 1 etc etc
Actually Jimmy had terrible sickness at that time. But since he scored 1000 runs before May earlier, selectors forced him to play 3 Tests. The sequence of 0,0,1,0,0,0 was shocking. But he bounced back in the 83-84 Pak tour with a match saving 101* at Lahore.



I was based in Mumbai for 9 long years
Interestingly I was also there for a few years. I went to the last day of the 2002 Test v Windies hoping for a Lara century. But alas, it all ended in 3 hours with Harbhajan's 7-48. Seeing the spineless display, it couldnt believe it was the same country for whom Clive Lloyd had smashed 242 and 37 on that very ground 28 yrs ago :cry:
Since none else is participating, I think it will be better to take this offline over email. I am sending a pm. I have come to know dozens of people over net who actually lived within a kilometer from my house, possibly you were my neighbor in Bombay!!! :D

(Aside: As far as spin goes, I feel Gupte is the best of all! He had a home avg of 30 and away avg of 28 which is great considering that he played a few away series that India lost 5-0. He only played against Eng, WI, Pak and Aus. If he had played NZ, I am sure he would have destroyed them(Even Venkat had 44w off 10 Tests v NZ). Gupte was bowling to top batsmen of the calibre of Weekes/Walcott/Worrell/Hunte/Sobers/Kanhai/Harvey/May/Barrington/Cowdrey/Dexter/Hanif, each of whom are all time greats)

[S.Balaji]

Coming back to the topic of CHennai test - as I mentioned earlier, Alwvn Kalcharan was going well and but for the controversial run out from Ashok Mankad ( can you pls check with somebody whether the throw came from deep square leg or fine leg ?? ) . It was a direct throw and the umpire got so thrilled that he gave out.
From what I heard, it was from deep point with one stump visible and kalli decide to run since it went to Mankad, usually a horrible fielder.

Response :
Could be but it was a direct throw and the umpire got thrilled probably and gave him run out in excitement.



My humble opinion is , probably Holding is the greatest bowler of my period . Even Dennis Lilee / Andy Roberts will come after him
Thanks. I spent the last weekend with a new DVD of some Aus-WI matches in the 80s. Will play them often to enjoy 'Whispering Death's bowling.

Response :
You should watch Holding's bowling in the 76 series in England when he took 14 wickets on a flat surface !!. Most of them were either LBW or Bowled. I remember Boycott commenting that - one delivery was the fastest in the world and before he could lift his bat , the ball touched his bat and sped past the slip fielders !! Such was Holding's pace.



Could not read . I will do it.
I had that file of Ram Sir's articles somewhere. If I find, i will email you. Pls pm ur email address.

Response :
Looking forward to Ram's articles.



Jabbar, as i had mentioned was a nice teamman and played well for SBI. It was Jabbar , Prabakar , Kedarnath ( we call him as Kedari ) , Raghavan ( very senior man - spinner ) , Babul nath , C.S.Suresh Kumar ( played one test ), Barath Reddy - wonderful characters from SBI.
By the way, is HIndu trophy being played now ??

Yes it is still being played. My favorite memory of Jabbar is the 84-85 Duleep Trophy final when he played a match winning 77 to take South to victory over North. I think you are confusing C Suresh with TE Srinivasan. C Suresh made his Ranji debut in 82-83 season only and topped with 481 runs. TE was a vaal-player with a big mouth. Once he sledged Rodney Hogg in the 1979-80 Aussie visit and got bouncers in return. Umpire Gothoskar warned him not to risk his life irritating a pacer like Hogg!

Response :
Repeat, it was C.S.Suresh Kumar only who played a test . This Suresh Kumar was senior to me in Vivekananda college by 2 years and we had played intra college tournament in Viveka in 1983 and I have spoken to him a couple of times. We did B.Com in Viveka.
Suresh kumar also played for SBI later.

About TE , I must give a separate posting as I need to write a lot about him!!


[/quote]
Simmo is my pick for the brainiest cricketer of the century - he is an amazing cricket brain, whether has cricketer or coach. Coming 9 yrs after retirement and hitting 500+ runs vs the Big Three spinners is incredible. Thommo IMHO is another brainless guy like Shoaib Akhtar.

Response :
Thommo lost his pace as he and probably Redpath dashed each other's shoulders while going for a catch and after that he never reovered fully. THommo's best series was - 1975-76 when WI toured Aussies and for Aussie Greg Chappel was the captain. It was 5-1 white wash ( I will write a full posting on this series as well )



Age shouldnt be held against Doshi since all spinners mature late. Besides Doshi made his debut in early '79 and was pushed out in early '81 so keeping him for 2 years doesnt make sense. His last game was the Bangalore Test v Pak in 83-84.

Agreed . Doshi was a relative failure in the series when England toured India and in one particular test in Chennai wherein Vishy and yashpal scored double centuries , we expected a lot from him but he failed in that test ( incidentally we saw that day in Chepauk - full house and not even a single wicket fell that day !!! )



G.A.Pratap Kumar( we call him GAP ), P.C. Naresh, K. Srinath ( Srikanth's brother and better player than Srikanth !! ) Ram Prakash, C.S.Suresh Kumar, Babul Nath, T.A.Sekar, Bharat Reddy etc etc.
GAP played for AP. TAS was unlucky that on the 82-83 tour of Pak, some shoddy slipfielding spoilt his figures. He was faster than Kapil then.

Response
You are right. GAP played for Andhra while representing SBI . Yes TA was unlucky as he also got the break very late in his career. I think it was 28 years or something . Not sure. I have seen his pace in Universityunion once.



Sadagopan Ramesh is really unlucky as he played well against Pak and Srilanka. I think he got injured in that terrible series in Ausie - 2000 under Sachin and never could come back except that he scored some runs in Chennai test against Ausie
Well, compared to Gambhir, Ramesh is inferior. Gambhir is a heavy scorer on the domestic circuit compared to Ramesh and will always be my first choice. Ramesh is more or less in Wasim Jaffer level. He had a great opportunity to play a match winning innings in 2003 Ranji final but flopped.

Response:
Ramesh is a flasy player . Not technically sound to defend bowlers like McGrath or Gillespie but had a decent average.



Arun Lal - a very mediocre cricketer , not a great batsman , he had his limitations, not a stroke player- but now making money in TV !!
Not really! Arun had very good scores whenever given a chance. I cant believe he was dropped in 1986-87 for Srikkanth after scoring 52 and 70 in the only Test he got. He was the best opener we got in the post-Sunny era.
Regarding commentary, Arun and Kirti Azad are the best Indian comms, compared to other crappy speakers(jokers?) like Maninder, Wassan, Mohinder, Yashpal

Response :
I still doubt Arun Lal's capabilities as he was not a great stroke maker. Very vey dull and defensive player. We also had the misfortune of seeing players like - Pranoy roy !!! ( son of Pankaj Roy ).
Your analysis of commentary is nice . WIsh to add only one sentence - Maninder .... to Yashpal - all are Hindi variety and little you can expect from them . Dont compare Delhi with Mumbai !!!
Ravi is exceptional and he is out of SMGs school of cricket !!!.Sanjay manjrekar is following now




Carlton - Nice player - played for Blr but faded away as SUnny was experimenting with guys like - GHULAM PARKAR !!!
Correction, Ghulam never got to play a Test after 81-82. He got just a ODI v Windies at Guwahati where he was Man of the Match. But due to age, he wasnt considered. I am okay with guys like him given a chance, considering the fact that Srikkanth got 43 chances to play tests :lol: :lol:

Response :

Not sure. WIll revert.



By lunch sunny touched 60 !! It was an achievement considering his style of batting.
Nice memory there!! I still recollect the 12:40 maanila seidhigal which mentioned SMG's score as 60. The day was October 29 1983 and I recollect the Sportstar cover which had the caption "29th century on the 29th of the month"

Response :
I am a mad fan of SMG and thank you very much for your excellent recollection of that innings. It will last in my memory forever like anyother fan of SMG. After he scored the century , both Viv and Clive ran all the way and shook hands with Sunny as it was a special occasion - He equalled Sir Don's record !



THere was one close call after that when Holding had him trapped right in front but the umpire saved SUnny.
Sunny was dropped on 28 by Dujon off a mishook

Response:
Yes,initially Jeff missed that hook of SMG and he was lucky but Holding trapped him right in front !!



Sad , amarnath who did extremely well in WI and the world cup was scoring telephone numbers !!!! 2 1 0 2 1 etc etc
Actually Jimmy had terrible sickness at that time. But since he scored 1000 runs before May earlier, selectors forced him to play 3 Tests. The sequence of 0,0,1,0,0,0 was shocking. But he bounced back in the 83-84 Pak tour with a match saving 101* at Lahore.

Response :
Jimmy is one of those technically sound players matched only by SMG. Jimmy also played a wonderful inning in Ranji final vs Karnataka . He was not out until end . It was a big score to chase and finally there was a guy by name Rajesh Peter who slaughtered Karnataka attack and crossed their total. That innings of Jimmy is still in my memory.



I was based in Mumbai for 9 long years
Interestingly I was also there for a few years. I went to the last day of the 2002 Test v Windies hoping for a Lara century. But alas, it all ended in 3 hours with Harbhajan's 7-48. Seeing the spineless display, it couldnt believe it was the same country for whom Clive Lloyd had smashed 242 and 37 on that very ground 28 yrs ago :cry:
Since none else is participating, I think it will be better to take this offline over email. I am sending a pm. I have come to know dozens of people over net who actually lived within a kilometer from my house, possibly you were my neighbor in Bombay!!! :D

Response :
I have been living in Kandivli east - Lokhandwala township - Whispering palms !!. Where were you in Mumbai ??
I was also in Mulund East and Thane west for some time.

Quote :
(Aside: As far as spin goes, I feel Gupte is the best of all! He had a home avg of 30 and away avg of 28 which is great considering that he played a few away series that India lost 5-0. He only played against Eng, WI, Pak and Aus. If he had played NZ, I am sure he would have destroyed them(Even Venkat had 44w off 10 Tests v NZ). Gupte was bowling to top batsmen of the calibre of Weekes/Walcott/Worrell/Hunte/Sobers/Kanhai/Harvey/May/Barrington/Cowdrey/Dexter/Hanif, each of whom are all time greats)

Response :
As I said earlier, my era starts from 1970 and I will check with my cousins and revert

Bye for now

[hehehewalrus]

Suresh Saraiya's voice was very nice and soft and I have heard his voice on Radio along with SUnil Chaturvedi.
By the way , I must mention our good old RAMAMURTHY - well known for his tamil commentary !! When I mentioned Ramamurthy, I must add Koothabiraan also !!! ( Have you heard about him ? He is called vanolee anna !! )

Aha, thanks for reminding about Koothabiran. I remember Ramamoorthy, Jabbar, Manivannan. Also CR Rangachari used to drop in regularly as the expert. He would unfailingly mention clean bowling Don Bradman in the 47-48 series.

I also remember the SriLankan tamil commentators - One out of 2 srilankans would invariably be a Fernando! In 1984-85 SLBC covered the SL-Pak series. I was in primary school and one day we were having a class test on some "seyyul/thelivurai". Not knowing it properly, I wrote "Asantha De Mel meendum Pavilion munai-yilirindhu varugiraar....." and other crap in the test notebook. My equally clueless deskmate copied it word by word. Mercifully we didnt submit it :lol:

Once while shopping on Flora Fountain, I found some 2nd hand cricket books with Saraiya's name and address on it.



You should watch Holding's bowling in the 76 series in England when he took 14 wickets on a flat surface !!.

Thanks. Here is one of them - the wicket of Balderstone who was making his debut.
http://3lib.ukonline.co.uk/cricket/holding1.mpg

Tony Greig bowled - I think Tony hit a century here
http://3lib.ukonline.co.uk/cricket/holding2.mpg



Repeat, it was C.S.Suresh Kumar only who played a test .

No, Suresh debuted only in 82-83. He didnt even make it to South Zone team. After a successful 82-83 he faded out. No chance of CS playing tests.



Thommo lost his pace as he and probably Redpath dashed each other's shoulders while going for a catch and after that he never reovered fully. THommo's best series was - 1975-76 when WI toured Aussies and for Aussie Greg Chappel was the captain. It was 5-1 white wash ( I will write a full posting on this series as well )

I think you are referring to Alan Turner, not Redpath. Redpath played a great innings in 1969-70 series v India.

Also Thommo was great in the 1974-75 Ashes series which Aus won 4-1 demolishing Amiss completely. Amiss had scored heavily v WI in 1973-74

There was one test v WI in 77-78 where Aus was Packerized. The Windies bounced them in Barbados and a furious Thommo bounced them out in return. It was a torrid spell of bowling - Thommo 6 for 78 in 13 overs!



Agreed . Doshi was a relative failure in the series when England toured India and in one particular test in Chennai wherein Vishy and yashpal scored double centuries , we expected a lot from him but he failed in that test

Nope!!! To be fair to Doshi, it was a BORING series full of BATATHONS. Doshi topped the bowling averages by a tremendous margin:
DR Doshi 267.5 103 468 22 21.27 5-39 1 - 1.75
S Madan Lal 159 34 432 14 30.85 5-23 2 - 2.72
N Kapil Dev 243.1 40 835 22 37.95 6-91 2 - 3.43

Do you recollect Gooch's assault on Kapil at Chepauk in this series?



I am a mad fan of SMG and thank you very much for your excellent recollection of that innings. It will last in my memory forever like anyother fan of SMG.

Nice to know that. I think we can talk about more stuff on Sunny's great knocks if you want.

1) 166* v Pak at Chennai
2) 221 at Oval in that cheated draw
3) 103 v NZ world cup 87
4) Explosive 74 v SL at Nagpur 86-87
5) Masterly 172 v Aus Sydney
6) Farewell innings 188 v MCC at Lords 1987



Response :
Jimmy is one of those technically sound players matched only by SMG. Jimmy also played a wonderful inning in Ranji final vs Karnataka . He was not out until end . It was a big score to chase and finally there was a guy by name Rajesh Peter who slaughtered Karnataka attack and crossed their total. That innings of Jimmy is still in my memory.

Oh yes, the 1981-82 final. Rajesh Peter and Rajesh Shukla took them to victory chasing 706 for a win. The tables were turned on Delhi in the Irani Trophy though - A breaktaking innings by Srikkanth(110 off 67 balls) and Malhotra as ROI chased 424 in 4th innings. Rajesh Peter collided with Madan Lal and was carried off the field.

Do you remember the 1987-88 Ranji final and 1988 Irani Final where VB Chandra dazzled?

Jimmy is a legend. In 83-84 Barbados test Jimmy was hit on the mouth and there was blood on the pitch and his shirt. He calmly washed the blood from his shirt at lunch in order to show the Windies he wasnt intimidated and proceeded to bat. The 91 and 80 he scored are legendary.

[S.Balaji]

Dear Walrus,

Before I can reply to your other points in your earlier posting,

I will complete your query on Gooch's innings in Chennai test .

The Indian first innings went almost up to Lunch time and Vishy was extending his innings along with Yashpal. I think he came very close to SMGs record of 221 ( in oval ) and we ( we used to have SMG vs Vishy during those days !! ) we were worried and concerned whether Vishy will overtake that milestone of SMG as we will have to face the wrath of our friends who are VIshy fans !! Finally when he scored 222 , we were so upset that we all SMG fans moved out of the scene and disappeared for that entire day !!
Incidentally SMG was the captain in that series .

Now England was left to avoid followon and had a huge target to counter.

Enter Gooch with his High back lift like S.V.Ranga rao in Maya Bazaarr !!

I will never forget that knock of Gooch as he tore Kapil and Madan lal to smitherins .

Boundaries were flowing from his bat every over and at one stage I remember Gooch just caressing the bat casually after hitting a cover drive for four.

We were so silly that evening that we started celebrating that Knock and started abusing our VIshy fans that Gooch had overshadowed Vishy !!!

That match went to become a dull draw . We all fet sad that Doshi was the strike bowler along with Kapil but could not exploit the 3rd day pitch . Ofcourse, I also vaguely recollect Ian Botham using his pads to all deliveries of Doshi who had no clue on how to tackle this approach of BOtham.

End

[S.Balaji]

Dear Walrus,

I think the Irani trophy final where Sri and Ashok Malhotra played well - Ashok got selected for the test series also following that and we were closely listening on Radio, that match.

Ashok Malhotra was more of a GRV copy but faded away soon.

He was given enough chances.

VB Chandra played well in that final and got selected to play for NZ I think . VB used to play without helmet and all.

VB was a very good cricketer, very aggressive batsman

[S.Balaji]

In fact I had played against VB also earlier in St. Bede's Ground Mylapore and he scored heavily. We lost by a huge margin. It was a local tournament and we were ejected

[hehehewalrus]

The SMG innings of 96 at Bangalore also coincided with the India-Argentina Davis Cup pre-quarter final. While SMG's knock ended in tragedy, another legend(Ok ok Vijay was nothing internationally, but for an Indian to go that far was something great) covered himself with glory. Yes its the great victory over Martin Jaite I am talking about.

But more on that later. My proudest moment in sport(which is very rare since I dont recall watching any sport where I wanted a particular team to win whether it's india or any other team) was the Davis Cup semifinal of 1987 - India vs Australia Sydney 1987.

September 30 1987, The inaguration of Reliance World Cup by Rajeev Gandhi took place. All the captains were introduced to him followed by a match between India and Pak. We got up next morning and I was surprised to see India winning that game. The same day evening we heard on the news that Wimbledon Champion Pat Cash had pulled out of the semifinal due to injury. This was a dampener as Cash had heroically beaten Pernfors and Edberg in the previous year's Davis Cup final.

Next morning, Ramesh took on John Fitzgerald and won in 4 sets I think. Now Vijay took on Wally Masur. Masur had gunned Becker in the 1987 Australian Open and was in peak form. Vijay played brilliantly and India got a 2-0 lead.

The next day Vijay pulled out of the Doubles as Pat Cash teamed up with Peter Doohan, the same Doohan who gave Becker his first defeat in Wimbledon in 4 years(1984: 16 year old Boris fell down on court against Bill Scanlon in Round Three and got carried off, 1985: Won, 1986: Won, 1987: 18 match unbeaten streak broken)

Vasudevan paired with Anand and they were no match for Cash and Doohan. It was easy to see how Doohan beat Becker! Last game, Doohan fired 3 aces down the middle in a row to win the match.

Final day morning, Vijay lost to Fitzgerald and pressure was back on Ramesh to repeat his deciding final match like against Argentina. Masur went up 4-1 in each of the first two sets but Ramesh fought back and clinched the two sets. I think the score was 8-6 8-6 6-4.

We were able to see only one half of the match as it was sunday morning. I think there was a bulletin over the Radio by 10 AM IST which announced India's triumphant entry to the final. Ramesh's wife Priya was present, I am not sure if Ramanathan Krishnan had come to Sydney. Just that time, his sister Radhika Krishnan had retired after winning the women's nationals, so hope Nandita Krishnan who is now playing juniors keeps up the family tradition started by her great-grandfather TK Ramanathan. (Do the family still live in their Oliver Road residence in Chennai?)

The best part is that with a team like Vijay, Ramesh, Vasu and Anand, it was basically Tamil Nadu beating Defending Champions Australia 3-2 in Australia!! :clap:

[hehehewalrus]

Enter Gooch with his High back lift like S.V.Ranga rao in Maya Bazaarr !!

:lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

But alas, it was not high backlift but his sweeps which drowned india in 87 world cup semifinal.

Eng 254, India 219 in 45.2 overs - The remaining 28 balls tells the story of self inflicted pressure :(

[Thiru]

Enter Gooch with his High back lift like S.V.Ranga rao in Maya Bazaarr !!

:lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

But alas, it was not high backlift but his sweeps which drowned india in 87 world cup semifinal.

Eng 254, India 219 in 45.2 overs - The remaining 28 balls tells the story of self inflicted pressure :(

not to forget the matured captain kapil getting tempted by a 70-year old eddie hemmings offering to hold out to deep mid wicket...

[hehehewalrus]

not to forget the matured captain kapil getting tempted by a 70-year old eddie hemmings offering to hold out to deep mid wicket...

Thiruji,
It was not that horrible an event. Actually, Hemmings was the only Hittable bowler in the English team. The rest were maintaining a very tight line. Hemmings and Gooch sharing 10 overs represented the weak link. All others were giving in the 35-45 run range.

The tactic worked well for a long time. Hemmings was going at over 6 an over and wicketless too despite the turning pitch. Kapil chanced his arm and raced to 30 off 24 balls with Azhar looking very dangerous at the other end. Everyone scored at run a ball and with 15 overs left, India were firm favorites with 6 wickets left. Kapil's early onslaught contributed to it. There was tremendous pressure on India as the crowd might riot. Some they regularly kept the run rate at 5 but the tail played some poor shots.

Kapil's hitting was only part of the tactic. The tail was swept away without any resistance.

[S.Balaji]

[quote="hehehewalrus"]The SMG innings of 96 at Bangalore also coincided with the India-Argentina Davis Cup pre-quarter final. While SMG's knock ended in tragedy, another legend(Ok ok Vijay was nothing internationally, but for an Indian to go that far was something great) covered himself with glory. Yes its the great victory over Martin Jaite I am talking about.

Hello Walrus,

It was a sad end to a great inning from SMG in Blr and I recollect SMG walking very slowly out to the pavilion. He felt that the catch went off his pads and was given out . We lost the match by 16 runs I think.
However we had our proud moment to celebrate as IMMEDIATELY we started comparing that knock with Vishy's 97 NO in Chennai !!!

I cannot forget that great show of VIjay and Ramesh in Aus - Davis Cup. I have been following tennis since 1979 ( i mean Byon Borg Vs Mcenroe days ).
I had to write a big thread about Tennis as I have seen both the finals of 79 and 80 - first one was Borg's 5th WImbledon title and and the second one was won by Mc. The first final went to 5 sets and in the 5th set , Borg showed his experience and won the title.

Coming back to Indian's best tennis in Aussie, Perter Doohan was a moody player , never consistent.
Before he beat Becker, Becker was called - BOOM BOOM BECKER , THE LENDL RECKER !!
After Doohan beat him , the news item next day read - DOOHAN, THE BECKER RECKER !!!
Waly Masur was a nice player. Vijay probably played his best tennis of his life in that match.

Pat Cash - I remember after beating Lendl in the Wimbledon final , he ran up to the guest box and hugged his father and fiancee I think. Others followed that style subsequently !!!

My all time favourite is - MAGNIFICIENT PISTOL PETE SAMPRAS !!!

Oops, are we deviating from Cricket ??

[S.Balaji]

There was a news item in Hindu showing GOoch practising sweep shots the previous day on the Mumbai semifinal.

Gooch was very particular as he had to face Ravi and Maninder the next day.

Yes, the next day news paper was titled - GOOCH SWEPT INDIA OUT OF THE WORLD CUP

Poor Sunny got bowled to Phillip D'frietas for just 4 runs.

Kapil, after playing well, sudden rush of blood tried to hit Hemmings out of the attack and was caught by Gatting in deep mid wicket. It was great presence of mind from Mike to position himself for that catch.

Again the same mike did a reverse sweep against Border and England lost the final in Kolkatta !!

[S.Balaji]

not to forget the matured captain kapil getting tempted by a 70-year old eddie hemmings offering to hold out to deep mid wicket...

Thiruji,
It was not that horrible an event. Actually, Hemmings was the only Hittable bowler in the English team. The rest were maintaining a very tight line. Hemmings and Gooch sharing 10 overs represented the weak link. All others were giving in the 35-45 run range.

The tactic worked well for a long time. Hemmings was going at over 6 an over and wicketless too despite the turning pitch. Kapil chanced his arm and raced to 30 off 24 balls with Azhar looking very dangerous at the other end. Everyone scored at run a ball and with 15 overs left, India were firm favorites with 6 wickets left. Kapil's early onslaught contributed to it. There was tremendous pressure on India as the crowd might riot. Some they regularly kept the run rate at 5 but the tail played some poor shots.

Kapil's hitting was only part of the tactic. The tail was swept away without any resistance.

Walrus,

Atleast here I will emphatically say that the turning point of the match was Kapil's dismissal as he going on well and had the match at his feet. But for that rash slog to deep midwicket where Gatting was waiting like a vulture for hits prey.
I have seen at times Kapil playing very rash cricket. He was sacked for trying to hit somebody out of the ground in that England series in India. He deserved that treatment.
Even when he was reinstated after the sacked match, Kapil was the same kapil , tried to prove his critics by attacking straight away. These were unfortunate moments for Kapil otherwise the Greatest Cricketer of our Country

[S.Balaji]

Dear Walrus,

Though I am again touching tennis , I wish to add one more memorable match played in the late 70s - another davis cup match in India - Vs Aussies

It was Vijay Vs Alexander. The match was probably the longest in the history of Davis cup for many years and it was so dark at one stage that it got extended to next day !!
It was a five set thriller but ultimately Alexander won that match.

I also remember Vijay beating Mcenroe once in a 3 set match

In one Wimbledon Vijay was 2 sets to nil up against Jimmy Conors but lacked killer instinct and lost the next 3 sets

Again VIjay was going well against Borg in one Wimbledon ( VIjay was basically a Grass court player ) but again lost to him in one 4thround or quarters , I am not sure

Sorry for moving away from the topic

[hehehewalrus]

I have seen at times Kapil playing very rash cricket. He was sacked for trying to hit somebody out of the ground in that England series in India. He deserved that treatment.

Hi Bala Sir,
I remember seeing this game. It was Sunday afternoon when Siva bowled Richard Ellison to take 6 wkts and England all out 418. SMG opened with Prabhakar in the 2nd knock. Cowans was very pacy and I remember him removing Manoj and clean bowling Vengsarkar with an express delivery. SMG and Jimmy hit 65 and 67 I think.
India all out 235.

In Kapil's bio he asks why he should be blamed when 7 others also threw their wickets away for < 100 runs. Fair point. Sandeep Patil was as much guilty of throwing his wkt away.

Kaps topscored with 60 in the 1st knock, I remember watching that innings too. The dropping was illogical. He was dropped for Test 3, returned for Test 4 and again topscored with 53.

It was a sad event



These were unfortunate moments for Kapil otherwise the Greatest Cricketer of our Country

That said, Kaps was a very very ordinary bowler. If you pull up stats he was a no hope after 1984(age 25). His stats post-1984 are similar to Prasad, Venkat, Yadav etc.

[hehehewalrus]

Dear Walrus,
Though I am again touching tennis , I wish to add one more memorable match played in the late 70s - another davis cup match in India - Vs Aussies

It was Vijay Vs Alexander.
Again VIjay was going well against Borg in one Wimbledon ( VIjay was basically a Grass court player ) but again lost to him in one 4thround or quarters , I am not sure


Which one is that? John Alexander? I am not much aware of this. There was one great victory by Ramanathan Krishnan against Koch of Brazil in the final of 1966 in Calcutta.
In 1969 When Rod Laver was going for his second grandslam, he ran into Premjit Lall at Wimbledon Round 2. Lall got the first 2 sets, then got elbow cramps, and lost next 3. Laver commented that the civil engineer's cement got inside his elbow!

Jaideep, Ramanathan and Lal were known as the three musketeers. It is sad that Lal attempted suicide in 1991 and failed.

the finals of 79 and 80 - first one was Borg's 5th WImbledon title and and the second one was won by Mc. The first final went to 5 sets and in the 5th set , Borg showed his experience and won the title.

Vijay lost to Bjorn in 4 sets in 1979 Wimby. Also reached the quarters of 1973 and 1981. In 1973 the professionals boycotted and Vijay lost to Jan Kodes in the quarters.



the finals of 79 and 80 - first one was Borg's 5th WImbledon title and and the second one was won by Mc. The first final went to 5 sets and in the 5th set , Borg showed his experience and won the title.

The great one was actually 1980. In 1979 Roscoe Tanner was the runner up. Tanner had a stunning powerful serve. I am looking for video of the 1980 game but cudnt get it. I got some DVDs of 87-93 tennis though.

McEnroe survived 7 matchpoints in the 4th set tiebreak and won 18-16.

Borg went up by a set in the 1981 final. But his last in Wimby as Mac won the next 3 sets.

My favorite moment in the 1984 Davis Cup final where US with Jimbo and Mac were crushed 4-1 by Sweden having Wilander and Sundstrom. Unknown Sundstrom outgunned both Jimbo and Mac on clay.

[S.Balaji]

[In Kapil's bio he asks why he should be blamed when 7 others also threw their wickets away for < 100 runs. Fair point. Sandeep Patil was as much guilty of throwing his wkt away.

Kapil's argument is ridiculous as the key wicket at that moment was Kapil's ... not others..... If Sandeep threw his wicket away earlier... it doesnt mean that Kaps should follow his foot steps.. not a logical justification by Kaps...
Following that test, I think we also lost Chennai test as well. There was a left handed opener... forgotten his name .. who scored double century .. this was under Gower's captaincy.. and england won that match.. Could be the last test in Chepauk the foreign team winning.... .




Kaps topscored with 60 in the 1st knock, I remember watching that innings too. The dropping was illogical. He was dropped for Test 3, returned for Test 4 and again topscored with 53.

It was a sad event

Still feel that he deserved it. Just immaturish batting. He went for a big drive i think after hitting a six or a boundary the previous ball.
Worst part was , in the test he came back.. right from the first ball, he was trying to hit..... to silly..
Otherwise a VERY DEDICATED CRICKETER. MORE SINCERE THAN SMG.






These were unfortunate moments for Kapil otherwise the Greatest Cricketer of our Country

That said, Kaps was a very very ordinary bowler. If you pull up stats he was a no hope after 1984(age 25). His stats post-1984 are similar to Prasad, Venkat, Yadav etc.

Dont go by pure statistics ( though its one factor for judging ).
Fastest indian to get 100 wickets after Pras I think...
Great allrounder...... but cant be equated with Botham class as Botham WAS A COMPLETE BATSMAN
Even Imran is better than Kapil on batting.

[S.Balaji]

Walrus,

On Kapil's statistics.....

Do you have an analysis of the number of tests played in India..... all docile wickets... spoilt by SMG only as he went for dull draws ...
SMG's approach was very simple those days... if you dont have match winners.. .better go for draw instead of losing.....
That stems out of his defensive technique probably !!!

[S.Balaji]

Which one is that? John Alexander? I am not much aware of this.

It was Alexander for sure.... not sure whether John



There was one great victory by Ramanathan Krishnan against Koch of Brazil in the final of 1966 in Calcutta.
In 1969 When Rod Laver was going for his second grandslam, he ran into Premjit Lall at Wimbledon Round 2. Lall got the first 2 sets, then got elbow cramps, and lost next 3. Laver commented that the civil engineer's cement got inside his elbow!
Jaideep, Ramanathan and Lal were known as the three musketeers. It is sad that Lal attempted suicide in 1991 and failed.

No idea on the period before 1978 as we started watching Tennis courtesy Doordharshan from this peiod only.
Also remember Martina vs Evert.. great battles ... but Martina was physically stronger while Evert was delicate......



Vijay lost to Bjorn in 4 sets in 1979 Wimby. Also reached the quarters of 1973 and 1981. In 1973 the professionals boycotted and Vijay lost to Jan Kodes in the quarters.


perfect. Those days reaching quarters or 4th round was a big achievement and Vijay was one of those. Nice guy . gentleman to the core. Highly respected ....




The great one was actually 1980. In 1979 Roscoe Tanner was the runner up. Tanner had a stunning powerful serve. I am looking for video of the 1980 game but cudnt get it. I got some DVDs of 87-93 tennis though.
McEnroe survived 7 matchpoints in the 4th set tiebreak and won 18-16.
Borg went up by a set in the 1981 final. But his last in Wimby as Mac won the next 3 sets.

Correct. Roscoe Tanner was a threat in that wimbledon for his big booming serves.. I think he served the fastest at that time. But not a complete player.... more like Ivanisevic variety......
Once the serve is returned ... he is gone... but Goran went on to win at the ripe old age !!!



My favorite moment in the 1984 Davis Cup final where US with Jimbo and Mac were crushed 4-1 by Sweden having Wilander and Sundstrom. Unknown Sundstrom outgunned both Jimbo and Mac on clay.[/quote]

Oh great Mats Wilander..... a clay court specialist.... He beat Ivan Lendl in one final at a very young age...... I think it was a record for French open ?? Pl clarify.
That Davis cup was played in Clay .. in Sweden I think and it was alwa eating for Swedish guys!!!


By the way, there was a great artist ... very inconsistent guy by name .... Miloslav Mecir....... excellent player but faded quickly.

On Lendl............. one of my idols for various reasons.... will write later....

[hehehewalrus]

[quote="S.Balaji"]
Oh great Mats Wilander..... a clay court specialist.... He beat Ivan Lendl in one final at a very young age...... I think it was a record for French open ?? Pl clarify.

Wilander beat Vilas in the 82 final as a 17 y/o. Lost to Noah in the 83 final. Dont know about 84 which Lendl bt McEnroe. Bt Lendl in 1985 final. Lost to Chesnokov Round 2 in 86. Lost to Lendl in 87 final. Won 88 final.

Yes I think it was a record till Chang beat it.

Your alwa-eating statement is right :D but Jimbo Mac had reached the 84 Wimby hence the US were favorites to begin with.
I read a book 100 years of Davis Cup by BBC. The tie had tremendous ego clash between Jimbo Mac and Arthur Ashe. Ashe vowed never to coach US again after that. Ashe never expected his team to win the final.

[hehehewalrus]

Bala Sir,
By the way, I used to go to these book exhibitions in Ketan Hall, it was fabulous!! You can get some 10-12 great books for about 300-400 bucks :)

[hehehewalrus]

By the way, there was a great artist ... very inconsistent guy by name .... Miloslav Mecir....... excellent player but faded quickly.


Mecir came to India in Jan 1986 for the Quarterfinal with Tomas Smid and beat Vijay and Ramesh with ease. A really lazy mover but very clever player. He reached the final of US Open 86 and Aus Open 89 and won the Seoul Olympic Gold.

Mecir was known as the Big Cat who likes to eat swedes. He has a great record against them. He ruined Wilander's hope of Grandslam by beating him in Wimby 88 Quarters.

The famous event of Mecir is mesmerising Edberg in the Wimby 88 semis, taking first 2 sets. I was delighted that Lendl will crush Mecir in the final. To my disappointment it was a triple tragedy for me - Edberg rallied back to beat Mecir, Becker outgunned Lendl and Steffi ousted Martina for the first time in Wimby. It was sad to see Steffi's bullet forehands whizz past Martina :cry:

[S.Balaji]

The famous event of Mecir is mesmerising Edberg in the Wimby 88 semis, taking first 2 sets. I was delighted that Lendl will crush Mecir in the final. To my disappointment it was a triple tragedy for me - Edberg rallied back to beat Mecir, Becker outgunned Lendl and Steffi ousted Martina for the first time in Wimby. It was sad to see Steffi's bullet forehands whizz past Martina :cry:[/quote]


Great memory of the Mecir vs Edberg !! It was Mecir everwhere in first 2 sets and Edberg had no clue to his cross court Crips winners. They were outright winners!! but Edberg rallied to beat him.

[S.Balaji]

Bala Sir,
By the way, I used to go to these book exhibitions in Ketan Hall, it was fabulous!! You can get some 10-12 great books for about 300-400 bucks :)


Alas... I am with Africans now :cry:

[S.Balaji]

Steffi ousted Martina for the first time in Wimby. It was sad to see Steffi's bullet forehands whizz past Martina


Some years later , Martina rallied to beat Zina Garrison ?? to win the title again ??

Steffi lost in round 1 I think ??

[hehehewalrus]

That was 1990. that was the only way martina could win - in steffis absence. Zina bt Steffi in 1990 semifinal.

[S.Balaji]

Do you recollect the epic semifinal - Lendl vs Becker..

Becker won the first set.

Lendl the second and third

And was 4 sets to 2 in fourth I think when rain interrupted.

After the resumption, Becker's FAMOUS BACKHAND started talking and Lendl was out .

the next day Hindu article read.... Becker will tell his grand children about the match....

Probably that was the best grass court tennis Lendl had ever played... coutesy Tony Roche...

We were hoping against hope that night that somehow Lendl will take the trophy. It was a sad moment.

Ultimtely we had some satisfaction as Beker lost to Edberg in FInal ??

[hehehewalrus]

Bala sir,
oh my God, i will never forget that match all my life :cry:

I have written about it here:
http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?t=2352&start=30

[S.Balaji]

Bala sir,
oh my God, i will never forget that match all my life :cry:

I have written about it here:
http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?t=2352&start=30



Walrus,

Great.. I saw your posting just now there and stunned ..... Great work.. especially you mentioned the first service game of Lendl vs Pat cash... Yessss he took a lot of time to finish that game and I remember that set going to tie break .
Did lendl beat Edberg in semis earlier in 5 sets and it was also a cliff hanger.


COming back to Lendl vs becker epic semfinal.

Do you recollect the words used at one stage by Lendl to the umpire....

OH I AM ALREADY FINDING IT DIFFICULT..... YOU GUYS ARE MAKING THINGS MUCH MORE DIFFICULT FOR ME.... !!!!

Do you remember those words.... It was a sad moment for one of the game's greatest and intelligent personality could not reach the summit of his life.
Lendll......... very intelligent...... can solve the cube games quickly..... lot of things I can write about him

Ultimately he settled down in Greewich COnnecticut with his charming wife and had 3 children ??
only to give training to Pete and get defeated in US open quarters later !!!

Another match of Lendl vs Mcenroe..... US open... where he beat him in straight sets.... I think it was in 1985 ....
Lendl was a good finalist until then French open...As you had mentioned in your other thread........ MC was up 2 sets to love and Lendl beat him clinically in the next 3 years and that was his first grandslam title .

Lendl...... Even today he can win US open from his bed !!

[hehehewalrus]

Walrus,
especially you mentioned the first service game of Lendl vs Pat cash... Yessss he took a lot of time to finish that game and I remember that set going to tie break .
Did lendl beat Edberg in semis earlier in 5 sets and it was also a cliff hanger.

Bala Sir, glad to find someone who follows lendl so closely!! Yes, with cash, i knew it was always going to be a struggle.
With Edberg it was a 4 setter, and wasnt too difficult. I never feared that much when it was Edberg.
But when Lendl lost to Wheaton in third round of 1991 wimby, I knew that Father's Time cruel sentence had been passed :(



OH I AM ALREADY FINDING IT DIFFICULT..... YOU GUYS ARE MAKING THINGS MUCH MORE DIFFICULT FOR ME.... !!!!

Do you remember those words.... It was a sad moment for one of the game's greatest and intelligent personality could not reach the summit of his life.

Another match of Lendl vs Mcenroe..... US open... where he beat him in straight sets.... I think it was in 1985 ....


Atleast Goran my other all time favorite had the luck of an upset-ridden 2001 to get wat he wanted..

Yes after that match only he became world #1, and lost it after losing the US open final of 88.

[S.Balaji]

Walrus,

Those days it was a mystery for us ... we were wondering why Lendl is losing so badly in Wimbledon in June but comes out with refreshing ease and wins US open in Aug so comfortably .
I remember he annihilated Andre Agassi several times in US. Nobody could dare touch Ivan until Becker in one great final and after that it was all lendl until Pete broke him in one quarter final. It was Arjuna beating Drona !! ?? as Pete took some coaching from IVan earlier .

Earlier Ivan commented ... Grass is for cows only !!

later he went on record to say..... I will give my french open... my australian open ... even my us open....... FOR ONE WIMBLEDON...

Strange are other facts as well :

1. Borg ..... never won US open
2. Connors.... never won french
3. Macenroe.... never won french ( the best tennis he played was against Ivan but Ivan ultimtely won and that was his first grand slam . Am I right ?? )
4. Ivan ..... never won.. french
5. Pete Sampras..... never won french

Probably agassi was a complete player...... I remember the Wimbledon title of Agassi. I think he beat your goran ??


Now....... Roger Federerer..... no french title yet....... ???

[S.Balaji]

Please read my earlier posting... one correction...

Ivan .... never wimbledon.... and not french...

[S.Balaji]

Get back to Cricket mate....

I heard once .... when TE went to Australia in 1980 series.... in nets he saw one stroke of Dilip Vengsarkar and advised him to play it differently or something...... Veng got upset and complained to SMG and things were different for TE after that. Is it true ??

Also, TE upon landing .... reportedly told the media that TELL LILEE... TE HAS COME !!!!

Wonder whether this was true ?? Big rumour during those days.

[S.Balaji]

GRV played another match winning knock against WI - Grade B team in Chennai. It was like a repeat of 75 type..

Vishy playing a solo again... THis time against.... Sylvester Clarke and Co.

The match was very close despite and Kaps hit some lusty blows at the end to the finish the match.

I remember the winning run was a bye .. Kaps and Kiri ?? ran . The keeper was David Murray ( Junior Murray ?? )

SMG was totally failure in this test.

However, he scored a big century in the next test in Calcutta.

Marshall was hit to all parts of the ground in that match.

The same Marshall troubled SMG like anything later before was tamed again by SMG back to back.

[hehehewalrus]

bala sir,
the TE incident is true. TE Said "Tell Dennis TE is here".

Yes the bye incident is also correct.

Check this out: (17 MB - to download, click on the Free button, link will come back soon)
http://rapidshare.de/files/3666007/Kapil_Dev_Sixes.wmv.html

Kapil!!! :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:

[S.Balaji]

bala sir,
the TE incident is true. TE Said "Tell Dennis TE is here".

Yes the bye incident is also correct.

Check this out: (17 MB - to download, click on the Free button, link will come back soon)
http://rapidshare.de/files/3666007/Kapil_Dev_Sixes.wmv.html

Kapil!!! :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:


Walrus,

Thanks for the url but the downloading message says.... remaining hours... 4 hours etc.... ?

[S.Balaji]

Poor TE made his debut at the age of 29 I think....

He was given couple of one day chances in Aus.... 1980..

Did not do well....

The entire series was ... Sandeep's................... 65 + in Sydney ... got injured.... came back and played well

Sunny... got out in the first over to Lilee and in second innning.. .to Hogg I think... failed



Adelaide..... 174 ?? brilliant attacking knock... of Sandeep...

Sunny started well .. took control over the situation but unfortunately.... the ball hit his pads and hit the stumps ... off Len Pascoe I think...
Failed in 2nd inning ......

I think SHivlal Yadav and Ghavri ?? saved the final stages.... Greg Chappel bowling and taking some wickets.......

Third test... Melbourne.... Vishy scoring 114 +....

Sunny going good in knock 2.... was on 80 ?? when Lilee trapped him but it was an inside edge... Umpire gave LBW...

It was a prestige issue match for SUnny as he wanted to prove to the world that he can score against Lilee also. Was well set for a ton but this sad incident......
Walked out with Chetan chauhan..... finally the manager had to restore normalcy and sanity......

After that it was Kapil's match.... high fever... took pain killers .... came back and won the match the next day...

Much damage was caused by Ghavri... bowling spinners and Greg chappellll getting bowled for a duck....

Doshi bowled well...

Border was caught behind on the previos evening but was not given out... the next day he got out ....

Doug walters dug in and was going well but ultimately we won the match....

Memorable series...

[hehehewalrus]

hi Bala Sir,
will reply over email.

[S.Balaji]

Wish to mention about the golden jublee test played in Mumbai some time back with England...

Vishy was the captain in that test. Vishy is also well known for his sportsmanhip.

In that test , India was well positioned at one stage when we removed the top order and it was Botham with Taylor ( wicket keeper ). There was a caught behind decision I think against Taylor which was declared out by Umpire.

Taylor was not happy and reacted immediately.

Vishy intervened and recalled him back !! That was probably the start of Saturn effect on Vishy....

Botham and Taylor had a big partnership. Botham scored century ....

The second innings was all Botham.... WIth his customary... trade mark.... lovely outswingers and India had no answer to that...

We lost finally .. what we should have won had VIshy not recalled .

I dont remember any incident of any batsman getting recalled before and after this incident.

Vishy got a very bad name after this match as it was a special occasion to celebrate and we lost the match .....

It was another unfortunate incidents.....

[S.Balaji]

[tscii:da5e82e351]The Selectors have been wise in chosing Ganguly as the Captain and reposing faith in him
This in no way undermines the ability of Dravid or their confidence levels but they must have felt that after all Ganguly had done extremely well as a captain … Loss of form is temporary…
However this could the last chance for Ganguly to come back to form as he no longer can continue purely as a captain…

If Ganguly fails with the bat again… It will be curtains…. But I don’t think so… as Zimbabwe should be the ideal opportunity for all out of form players to come back…
[/tscii:da5e82e351]