MGR - IR combination - Would have been a hit ???

[S.Balaji]

Hello dear friends,

I am a diehard fan of IR and MSV.

The whole TFM knows that MGR's love for song making and what efforts he puts to get the best out of the Music directors.
KVM/ MSV / Sankar Ganesh - All those who had worked with him had revealed during various times that MGR was a tough person and will do everything to the best out of the MDs

I am not sure whether MGR - IR combination would have worked out.

IRs composing style might not have fit in to MGR;s taste ???

Any takers for this ??

[Shankar]

I am not sure if it would've worked...But MGR did show some interest in working with Raja. They apparently met in a cine-launch or some other function where MGR expressed to Raja that he would like to work with him.

I cannot completely agree that Raja's style might not've suited MGR. The reasons are,
1. Raja had scored for sivaji and it suited him well (nEramidhu..nEramidhu, and many more)
2. Raja, in those days was giving songs which launched many a careers (can you think of a better opening song for Rajni than podhuvAga emmanasu thangam ? The only song which comes close to it is oruvan, oruvan from muthu)...If he can do that for upcoming stars, he wud've definitely given good score for MGR.

[njv]

Shankar

Man, I totally forgot abt Podhuvaaga Emmanasu Thangam. I always thought IR didnt give best opening for Rajni, though Rakkamma Kaiyathattu itself weight much more than all other Rajni song, but still Rakkamma is not a rajni song, rather IR song, but Podhuvaaga Emmanasu Thangam - damn bets Oruvan Oruvan and many other hits that Deva gave for Rajni.

Which movie was it? I would love to see it if its available in DVD.

[S.Balaji]

Shankar

Man, I totally forgot abt Podhuvaaga Emmanasu Thangam. I always thought IR didnt give best opening for Rajni, though Rakkamma Kaiyathattu itself weight much more than all other Rajni song, but still Rakkamma is not a rajni song, rather IR song, but Podhuvaaga Emmanasu Thangam - damn bets Oruvan Oruvan and many other hits that Deva gave for Rajni.

Which movie was it? I would love to see it if its available in DVD.

NJV,

Podhuvaaga enmanasu - Is from Murattu kaalai

I must mention something about this movie. This movie actually was a major step forward for Rajini to become a Super Star.
Directed by S.P.Muthuraman and produced by AVM.
AVM made lot of money from this movie.
Another news about this movie, Jayashankar made a comeback through this movie.
AVM Saravanan was in a dilemma on how to list the their names - whether Rajini first or Jaishankar first.
Rajini was gentle enough to tell AVMS that Jai's name shall appear in the front.

On Rakamma - you know, its from Dalapathi

[njv]

thanks balaji sir. I watched the movie recently in SunTV but only from the middle. I didnt get a glimpse of the title song. Will try again!

[S.Balaji]

I am not sure if it would've worked...But MGR did show some interest in working with Raja. They apparently met in a cine-launch or some other function where MGR expressed to Raja that he would like to work with him.

I cannot completely agree that Raja's style might not've suited MGR. The reasons are,
1. Raja had scored for sivaji and it suited him well (nEramidhu..nEramidhu, and many more)
2. Raja, in those days was giving songs which launched many a careers (can you think of a better opening song for Rajni than podhuvAga emmanasu thangam ? The only song which comes close to it is oruvan, oruvan from muthu)...If he can do that for upcoming stars, he wud've definitely given good score for MGR.

Shankar,

Good thinking. There is a thread exclusively for - " Those actors who got benefited maximum out of IR " where most of the names are listed . Pls read them.

I think - Naan autokaran ( from Badsha ) / Adhanda edhanda ( from Arunachalam ) were also good starts for Rajini ( by Deva ).

By the way, it would have been interesting if IR had composed atleast one movie for MGR. We are the losers.

[app_engine]

They announced with much fanfare (front page of Dinathanthi, it had photos of both MGR & IR) about a MGR-IR combo movie (I think the name was `unnai vida mAttEn' or something like that) but MGR was into full-time politics (means CM)...It never took off as MGR was very busy, winning election after election (sometimes against all odds) and retaining the CM post for life...he never returned to film field...

IR, with all his brilliance & flexibility to fit into any situation (at least at that point of time), would have come up with fantastic music - no doubt about it...

[app_engine]

An MGR-kind-of song was done for Bhagyaraj, in the film Dhavanikanavugal, `oru nAyakan, udhayamAkiRAn'...

[S.Balaji]

An MGR-kind-of song was done for Bhagyaraj, in the film Dhavanikanavugal, `oru nAyakan, udhayamAkiRAn'...

There is another song - Madhanamoga ruba sundari ( IR deliberately composed that song to feel like an old song )

Yes yes , IR did well for all Bagyaraj's movies and also extremely well for Ramarajan's movies also.

Bagyaraj and Ramarajan intially tried to follow MGR's path . Their songs picturisation and style also resembled MGR.

Applying the same logic, probably IR would have done with MGR as well I feel now.

[Sanjeevi]

IR pattukku MGR nadichurakkara?

[S.Balaji]

IR pattukku MGR nadichurakkara?

Sanjeevi,

Never . Only once MGR discussed with IR before becoming CM but after that he never acted. Thats why this thread is created to analyse how the combination would have worked out.

Regards

S.Balaji

[hehehewalrus]

Considering the way MGR ruthlessly pushed his MDs to the brink, I doubt if the MGR-IR combo would have lasted much long.

[njv]

IR=NTR combo didnt work out well, cuz NTR wanted IR to copy some songs from Hindi and IR never wanted to do that. I posted this in another forum sometime back. After this incident IR didnt want to do any movie for NTR.

MGR is a different person. He do give freedom with in a certain limitation. So probably the combo would have worked okay, but nothing compared to MGR=MSV-Vaali or MGR=Kannadhasan-Vaali combination. They are simply amazing.

[S.Balaji]

IR=NTR combo didnt work out well, cuz NTR wanted IR to copy some songs from Hindi and IR never wanted to do that. I posted this in another forum sometime back. After this incident IR didnt want to do any movie for NTR.

MGR is a different person. He do give freedom with in a certain limitation. So probably the combo would have worked okay, but nothing compared to MGR=MSV-Vaali or MGR=Kannadhasan-Vaali combination. They are simply amazing.

NJV friend,

You have given new twist and thought to this forum !!.

Like you mentioned above - MGR - MSV - Valee and MGR - MSV - Kannadasan,
I wonder what would have happened with - MGR - IR - Vairamuthu
All have sky high egos and it would have been a big war I wonder

[Shankar]

Raja and VM weren't stars yet...So ego clashes wouldn't've happened...From what i heard from my granddad (he was into ditributing movies, and has lots of iteresting anecdotes to say), that while MGR suggested he wanted songs in a particular way, but gave the freedom to the lyricist and the MD. He was more concerned with the lyrics than the music...So, it would've been VM who might've got the stick, and definitely not Raja.

[S.Balaji]

Raja and VM weren't stars yet...So ego clashes wouldn't've happened...From what i heard from my granddad (he was into ditributing movies, and has lots of iteresting anecdotes to say), that while MGR suggested he wanted songs in a particular way, but gave the freedom to the lyricist and the MD. He was more concerned with the lyrics than the music...So, it would've been VM who might've got the stick, and definitely not Raja.

Hello Shankar,

Nice analysis. Yes, IR and Vm were not stars at that time. They could have adjusted to MGs style during the initial days.

You know the strength of MGs taste for music.

He gave some movies to Shankar ganesh and those songs became super hits :

1. Idaya veenai - Pon andhi maalai pozudu

2. Naan paadum padal , nalamaaga vendum

3. Unadhu viziyil enadhu paarvai

4. Chitira cholaigalay ( written by Barathi dasan )

5. Kashmir beautiful kashmir

Till today, Shankar ganesh are being identified by those songs mainly !! . Of course they also did some good ones for Devar and also in Neeya.


Probably our friend, Sharadha and Usha can bring more songs to the above list of hits .

[natha1729]

Raja and VM weren't stars yet...So ego clashes wouldn't've happened...From what i heard from my granddad (he was into ditributing movies, and has lots of iteresting anecdotes to say), that while MGR suggested he wanted songs in a particular way, but gave the freedom to the lyricist and the MD. He was more concerned with the lyrics than the music...So, it would've been VM who might've got the stick, and definitely not Raja.

Hello Shankar,

Nice analysis. Yes, IR and Vm were not stars at that time. They could have adjusted to MGs style during the initial days.

You know the strength of MGs taste for music.

He gave some movies to Shankar ganesh and those songs became super hits :

1. Idaya veenai - Pon andhi maalai pozudu

2. Naan paadum padal , nalamaaga vendum

3. Unadhu viziyil enadhu paarvai

4. Chitira cholaigalay ( written by Barathi dasan )

5. Kashmir beautiful kashmir

Till today, Shankar ganesh are being identified by those songs mainly !! . Of course they also did some good ones for Devar and also in Neeya.


Probably our friend, Sharadha and Usha can bring more songs to the above list of hits .


MGR was the fire thru whom the iron of music became steel and then turned into Gold!!!! If IR was given a couple of movies with MGR, we would've seen a IR who would've given greater emphasis on bringing the lyrics and the singer to the front than shift focus to instruments!

That said, as far as I see in all of the 4000 odd songs, I don't see a single IR song that is MGR type or MSV/KVM type. Nope. It is pure chance that Sivaji worked with IR and have him give out close to Sivaji type songs of yesteryears - anthapurathil oru maharani, neramithu, aimbathilum, even the fantastic Kaalam maralam (absolutely not a traditional Sivaji type song, but the mood suited this mini-symphonic composition.

It is our loss and IR's loss that he didn't get to work with the rarest of the rare genius of MGR. We would've seen a less hurried compositions, more paced out lyrics and classic music of the highest order. If Sankar Ganesh did exceedinlgy well in MGR films, then IR would've outdone even MSV/KVM/GR!!!!!

By the way, SG are eniuses with some brilliant musical structures not seen from other composers or earlier times even and gave rare songs in non-MGR movies.

1. Unnai Naan Parthathu (tell me an IR song pattern that resembles this,)
2. En Kadali, Naan Sollava (the best of KJY/SPB duets)
3. Nadiganin Kadali - Thai Illammal Naan Illai (Kamal starrer)
4. Devi Vandha Neram
5. Naan Unnai Nenachen
6. Paniyum Naane Malarum Neeye (what a song, what a feeling of the rainy days!)

[alias]

If you are asking for period 70-80s he would have done justice cause he was ruling king but now if u ask for MGR movies, ARR or Vidyasagar would be good. I would defintely say ARR for the music he created for Iruvar and Aa Aaha first song... total MGR songs.

[vimalpercy]

I have some doubt weather MGR and IR combination would have flourished.

If you take Kamal Rajani or for that matter any hero, IR only created music when the situation really demanded such a song.
Eg Pothuvaga en manasu thangam is a song which is for celebrating rajini's win over a moratuu Kallai and i doubt that it is a song created in the same fashion as created in Basshaa or Muthu or recent Rajini movies.

So my point is IR always looked for situation and according to that created music rather than creating a song to suit a actor ie creating a song of the interest of the Actor. In other words IR is more situation oriented MD rather than Hero Oriented MD, otherwise most of the Hero would have been suggesting IR to be their musician in their film.

If you see MD.s like Deva he created song mostly for the Hero, he involved so much in that and wanted to make a song that suits Rajani and i guess MGR would have been more in favour of those kind of MD's who spend time for them specially , rather than people like IR who just dont do like that, but just compose song for the given situation.I can say may be 3 or 4 films they could have done together at the max and i doubt their would have made a successfull combination.

[njv]

IIn other words IR is more situation oriented MD rather than Hero Oriented MD, otherwise most of the Hero would have been suggesting IR to be their musician in their film.

Very good point. Thats why IR-NTR combo didnt work out as well.

[njv]

NJV friend,

You have given new twist and thought to this forum !!.

Like you mentioned above - MGR - MSV - Valee and MGR - MSV - Kannadasan,
I wonder what would have happened with - MGR - IR - Vairamuthu
All have sky high egos and it would have been a big war I wonder
Oh damn. Thavalai Thanvaayalae Kedum - Plz dont start 3 different threads to discuss these combos.

[S.Balaji]

By the way, SG are eniuses with some brilliant musical structures not seen from other composers or earlier times even and gave rare songs in non-MGR movies.

1. Unnai Naan Parthathu (tell me an IR song pattern that resembles this,)
2. En Kadali, Naan Sollava (the best of KJY/SPB duets)
3. Nadiganin Kadali - Thai Illammal Naan Illai (Kamal starrer)
4. Devi Vandha Neram
5. Naan Unnai Nenachen
6. Paniyum Naane Malarum Neeye (what a song, what a feeling of the rainy days!)[/quote]

Hello friend,

Seems you are a fan of Shankar Ganesh. Is it true ?? Those picks above are nice ones of SG.

Add Neeyaa also - Naan kattil melay kanden venilaaa

I will not consider - Oray jeevan ondray ullam - Its a straight lift from nageena.

Naan Unnai nenaichen - Kannil therium kadaigal - Nice one

Do you know about that movie - 3 music directors composed songs - GKV / SG and ........ IR

Ultimately IR's one was the best -

Naan oru ponoviyam kanden idhilay - SPB and PS

great song. IR will virtually play around with all carnatic instruments - Tabala / Sitar / Veena / Fluit etc etc. That was a masterpiece from IR.

There is another song of SG - Muthu radhamoo , mullai charamoo -

Sharat babu and ?? - Jayachandran and Vanee Jayaram.

Picture - not known ??

[Shankar]

Balaji,
Actually 5 guys scored for the movie kaNNil theriyum kadhaigaL...Apart from Raja/GKV/SG, TR Pappa and KVM scored.

[S.Balaji]

Balaji,
Actually 5 guys scored for the movie kaNNil theriyum kadhaigaL...Apart from Raja/GKV/SG, TR Pappa and KVM scored.

Sorry mate,

I stand corrected now. By the way, any song came out of - TRP / KVM ?? and what was the song of GKV ??

Pl let me know.

[Shankar]

KVM - Vettaikkaaran malaiyilae by TMS
TRP - Onnu rendu moonu (sasirekha (?), s p shailaja)
GKV - Naan paartha rathidevi (A L Raghavan)

[MADDY]

also,MGR always supports underdogs......he preferred nagesh instead of chndrababu., valee instead of vairamuthu, latha instead of jayalalitha.....so i think he wud preferred ARR instead of IR.........i think MGR-ARR combo wud have been a landmark one just like MGR-Valee one.......

[nilavupriyan]

also,MGR always supports underdogs......he preferred nagesh instead of chndrababu., valee instead of vairamuthu, latha instead of jayalalitha.....so i think he wud preferred ARR instead of IR.........i think MGR-ARR combo wud have been a landmark one just like MGR-Valee one.......

if u consider arr as underdog then its ok for me :lol: :lol:

[S.Balaji]

also,MGR always supports underdogs......he preferred nagesh instead of chndrababu., valee instead of vairamuthu, latha instead of jayalalitha.....so i think he wud preferred ARR instead of IR.........i think MGR-ARR combo wud have been a landmark one just like MGR-Valee one.......

Hello Maddy,

MGR loves melody and its missing from ARR. I doubt MGR - ARR would have worked out. ARR is full of Jass.

MGR also changed actresses in tune with the times. He tried Manjula also on par with Lata.

But what I could not digest was - Radha Saluja , padmapriya etc etc

[MADDY]

hey i wrote valee instead of vairamuthu.......nobody noticed it....it shuld have been valee instead of kannadasan......

nilavu, when ARR himself praises IR and shows his eagerness to work with IR wat is left to say.......i dunt think any ARR fan can again argue that ARR is gr8er than IR......ARR gave it all away....... :? ........

balaji sir.......ARR got 4 national awards for melodious albums...wat else melody u need????? also ARR's humility wud have suited MGR rather than IR's arrogance........

[S.Balaji]

[
balaji sir.......ARR got 4 national awards for melodious albums...wat else melody u need????? also ARR's humility wud have suited MGR rather than IR's arrogance........[/quote]

Hello Maddy,

I dont deny ARR's capabilities but the point I am stressing is MGR's songs had unique melodies and they are different from others . There will be special flavour to MGR's songs.
Just wish to take you to best of MGR's and you will realise ARR can bring such type of melodies :

1. Oodum megangalay
2. Thottaaal poo malarum
3. Pudhiya vaanam
4. Rajaavin paarvai raaniyin pakkam
5. Sirithaal thanga padhumaai
6. Ulagamengum oray mozhi
7. Poneyil poothathu pudhu vaanil
8. Engay aval
9. Kannay kaniyay
10. Thangathil mugameduthu
11. Unadhu viziyil enadhu paarvai
12. Pon andhi maalai pozudhu

I could just bring some of the goldies of MGR. These are melodies and now I wish to bring ARRs melodies :

1. Netru illadha matram vandhadhu
2. Yen veetu thotathil
3. Ennavalay adi ennavalay
4. Roja roja
5. Kadhal rojaa
6.Thanga thaamarai magalay
7. Kandu konden kandu konden

The problem with ARR is that yesterday's melodies are lost today and today's melodies will be lost tomorrow.
I wonder how many will listen to even the above listed ones

MGR's flair for melody - ARR would not have matched.

ARR might try to bring his usual Jass and western base which MG would have rejected.

While IR was an intermediary between melody and western and he could have fit in better compared to ARR but still I doubt even IR could not have met with MG's scheme of expectations.

Love

S.Balaji

[S.Balaji]

[quote="MADDY"]also,MGR always supports underdogs......he preferred nagesh instead of chndrababu., valee instead of vairamuthu, latha instead of jayalalitha.....

Dear Maddy,

Nice point you injected.

MGR always supports underdogs because somebody has to say Annay Annay always in his movies . If you see the number of ANnay Nagesh used in - Enga veetu pillai and Ulagam suttrum valiban , you will realise that. Later MG even shifted to a guy called - Isari Velan who just copied Nagesh and was running the show. MGR liked Isari so much that he made him represent as MLA - I think for Harbour constituency and Isari won it !!!
On Valee instead of Kannadasan, Valee is more flexible and adaptable person compared to Kannadasan. Ella greatsukkum irukkum style Kannadasananukkum undu ( Kannadasan is like Kambar )