what do you hate OR like in MD ? [Archive]

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coucou

25th July 2005, 03:26 PM

DISCUSS here fault and quality of every md

for me
ilayaraja's fault is he don't know use the western instrument in his songs
quality, he is original, use tradition instrument very well, he have own music

rahman's fault: is he take 5 or 6 month to give one album and copy the music of western
quality: good choice of singers, good mix of western and traditionnel music, quality of songs

vidyasagar fault: same style of duppanguttu songs, choice of singers in some songs, singers who don't prononced tamil very well
quality:his "dappanguttu" songs, some melodys

yuvansangar raja fault: his music look like to arr.
quality: his music look like too much arr's, foottapping songs, melodys

hj fault : he is an veritable copy cut of arr, openning of his songs with words who don't exist in tamil.
quality: good choice of singer, melodys.

Shankar

25th July 2005, 03:41 PM

coucou,
what do you mean by 'western' instruments ??
IMO, when it comes to violin (viola, cello, bass), Guitar, Piano, various wind instruments (trumpet, Horns, Clarinet etc)
Raja's the best.

Pls list your 'western' instruments.

dinesh2002

25th July 2005, 03:46 PM

haahahaha...athane parthen,y no one came & talk about that portion yet.....:P:P!yes shankar,he has used many western instruments,but he never succeed in giving a number which rocked the whole world,he cant even do half of what YSR is doing!im sure u agree with me rite?!

MADDY

25th July 2005, 04:15 PM

coucou,

first of all,the allegations that u hve put on MDs are wrong atleast for ARR and IR....

IR has used western instruments but his recording quality was not good...so u feel he has never used western instruments

ARR has never copied from western albums....pls i'm sick and tired of this accusation....its just he has used the s/w loops from western albums....his tunes r original........infact he never uses loops as such- he reprogrammes them and then uses it.......

pls yaar, post accusations after reading our comments atleast :D ....we have explained these things 1000 times atleast....

interz

25th July 2005, 05:11 PM

interesting thread, why did coucou not comment on rahman?? was he afraid of arr rahmans fans reactions??

coucou

25th July 2005, 05:20 PM

i don't say ir don't use western music but he don't know how use in one song. i hate every songs of ir wher he use western instrument.

maddy i want to say arr inspire of western music

coucou

25th July 2005, 05:21 PM

interz i haven't comment arr because i can't find fault in arr. it is most difficile.

dinesh2002

25th July 2005, 05:36 PM

i can,1 of ARR's fault is he gives credit for the musican who is involved in his music,with that,many of the musicans fans claiming that that particular song the musican worked on was composed & done by that musician,like Harris jeyaraj and Ranjit barot..many hJ fans claiming that Mudhalvane in mudhalvan was done by Hj,and many bgm for ARR's movies was done by Hj...Ranjit barot too claiming he composed 2 songs in KKKK...

one more fault is that ARR used many western instruments nowdays,it was soothing to listen Sangamam when it got released...and its been a gap we listen to a pure clasical number from ARR,duncha guys think?!

Shankar

25th July 2005, 05:54 PM

>>yes shankar,he has used many western instruments,but he never succeed in giving a number which rocked the whole world,he cant even do half of what YSR is doing!im sure u agree with me rite?!<<

I generally refrain from arguing with imbeciles...

Shankar

25th July 2005, 06:15 PM

...and in case you know what a bass guitar is, pls listen to songs like "iLam pani thuLir vidum nEram" (from ArAdhanai) to know Raja's expertise in using them.

coucou

25th July 2005, 06:40 PM

other arr's fault he doesn't choose KK. why? WHY? WHY?

coucou

25th July 2005, 06:42 PM

http://www.behindwoods.com/features/Topten/top10musicdirectors/tamil-cinema-topten-musicdirectors-10.html

WHY ilayaraja isn't here?

MADDY

25th July 2005, 07:13 PM

MADDY

25th July 2005, 07:16 PM

dinesh2002

25th July 2005, 07:23 PM

other arr's fault he doesn't choose KK. why? WHY? WHY?

yes he did,in MK ,after he shot fame there,i think ARR let him go on his own way!

dinesh2002

25th July 2005, 07:29 PM

...and in case you know what a bass guitar is, pls listen to songs like "iLam pani thuLir vidum nEram" (from ArAdhanai) to know Raja's expertise in using them.

i though u didin wanna entertain 'imbecile'? y did u bother to answer man,i guess u cant stop ur self from answering!;)...but anywayz,if u didint know,Sivamani mention IR never credits the musicans when they really gave something great,so im sure that particular bit must have been contributed by some1 & IR gets the credit...no time for protg... :twisted:.. :twisted:

dinesh2002

25th July 2005, 07:32 PM

"and its been a gap we listen to a pure clasical number from ARR,duncha guys think?!"

u said wats exactly was on my mind,dinesh :D ......i think there r still many carnatic buffs who think ARR is weak in carnatic music.....he shuld do a "shankarabaranam" style movie to seal their mouths.....i wud definitely travel to chennai to see subbudu's face when ARR succeeds in this.........

yes man,im really thirst for a complete clasical songs from ARR like sangamam!if ARR manage to got some carnatic situational like anniyan,im sure ARR would have satisfy many...but sadly those great situational songs went to waste in Anniyan....

dinesh2002

25th July 2005, 07:55 PM

every md has plus & minus points,but 1 good thing all the current md shares,they introduce new singers & give them a good market!!

Scale

25th July 2005, 08:02 PM

I was expecting Parthiban's Yelelo for ARR to comeback an album in tamil like sangamam, a pure folkish. Unfortunately its shelved.

Hope he reviews it again.

btw, Rising & Meenaxi arent Hindustani classicals.

dinesh2002

25th July 2005, 08:07 PM

Damn! Parthiban's Yelelo is dropped. Hope he reviews it again.

consider yelelo gone man...sure no chance :P

alias

25th July 2005, 09:22 PM

The reason for KK departure from ARR is his arrogance.. KK is very arrogant man and I was watching Fame GuruKul and I saw how arrogant is he like Alka Yagnik when judging the singer.. I dont know who made his Judge under what credibility?

And yes Behindwoods is right in saying ARR is number one out there. And also IR should have around no. 6-7 in the list taking Joshwa Sridhar out of the list.

coucou

25th July 2005, 09:38 PM

numer 2 is hj, number 3 is ysr. idon't agree with this classement. ysr is much better than hj now. what do you think?

njv

25th July 2005, 09:42 PM

Looking at the list, except ARR, HJ, YSR, VS and Bharadwaj, rest of them should be removed.

I am sad to see that IR is not in the list, inspite of giving good numbers this year (MX, AOKK, ONOK), but I am not bothered about it.

I am also surprised that HJ is ahead of YSR. On the long run YSR will be way ahead of the rest of them.

Scale

25th July 2005, 10:12 PM

http://www.behindwoods.com/features/Topten/top10Actors/tamil-cinema-topten-actor-1.html

check the above link (Rajni - CM biggest hit & Kamal missing) and u can understand why IR is not in behindwoods list

Vijayakanth at no: 5 :lol: :lol: pls dont start another thread :evil:

njv

25th July 2005, 10:30 PM

Hmm. Scale you made a good point. They are probably not considering them with the "current" list of folks. Makes perfect sense.

njv

25th July 2005, 10:47 PM

They have "Top 10 Legend", so they will add IR, Rajni, Kamal in there.

Scale

25th July 2005, 11:04 PM

They have "Top 10 Legend", so they will add IR, Rajni, Kamal in there.

njv! I thought the above list is a prediction for 2010. Still ARR rocks.... :clap: so they have ignored all IR, Rajni,Kamal & MR. Apart from others certainly Rajni shud be included for his super dooper hit CM (I am not a Rajni fan). Top 10 songs & movies r the worst list I have ever seen. :twisted:

If your point is on top 10 legends, then will they include IR on top 5, for which he certainly deserves (MSV, MGR, Sivaji, KB, BR, BM, TMS,SPB,KJY, Janaki, actress lists & the missed one IR, Rajni,Kamal & MR.) :poke: pettai rap :rotfl: ....

kola kuthu thaan, better they dont disclose top 10 legends :lol:

Nitya

25th July 2005, 11:57 PM

What I LIKE in MDs is when they give their projects their all and come out with fresh compositions. Fresh is a term that cannot be easily put into words-- one must hear first to know if a song is fresh or not. I think I have mentioned this several times before.

What I HATE in MDs is when they do something just because everybody else is doing it. If MDs are doing this, you will know it.

Regards,
Nityananda Pillai

Shankar

26th July 2005, 11:18 AM

"WHY ilayaraja isn't here?"

maybe they thought he was 2 gr8 to be added in that list :D ....

"listen to songs like "iLam pani thuLir vidum nEram" (from ArAdhanai) "....gr8....but compare it with chaiyya chaiyya interlude.......ARR ceases the competition with superior sound quality.....

ARR fans r learning finer aspects of music.....summa 1980la irundhu oru paatu solli, andha paatu madhiri varumannu bayamooruthathinga...... :lol:

hey 1 aspect that i dislike abt both ARR and IR is the fact that they dont give music for the masses anymore.....not just masses, they dunt even listen to their fan's requests........very bad....maybe gr8 artistes are such........ :D

I don't have to quote some obscure song to prove my point.....If you are an objective listener (as you are so fond of saying every now and then - arr's music has made you tolerant :-) ) listen to this with an open mind...lend ur ears to the Bass guitar in the BG and decide urself...

http://as01.coolgoose.com/music/download.php?id=153093

-

interz

26th July 2005, 03:12 PM

maybe u should try indiaglitz they praise ilayaraja above skyes.

coucou

27th July 2005, 05:19 PM

why arr doesn't inspire of other young md LIKE YSR, vs??
HE WILL BE LIKE BY EVERBODY.
listen's anniyan's song, it is not original, it is inspired (or copy) of songs arr, but it is hit. :rotfl:

coucou

28th July 2005, 02:06 PM

http://www.behindwoods.com/features/Topten/legends/tamil-cinema-legend-1.html

ilayaraja is no 1 legend of india, woooooooooooooooooooov!!!!

Scale

28th July 2005, 02:52 PM

http://www.behindwoods.com/features/Topten/legends/tamil-cinema-legend-1.html

ilayaraja is no 1 legend of india, woooooooooooooooooooov!!!!

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: , I have no regrets for this maestro to be picked as top on the list. ALL IR-Fans (esp. njv) time to celebrate atleast behindwoods have given due credits to the maestro finally.

Is MR at 4, Damn! His 1 movie either anjali or roja will throw everyone/others out of the list.... Personally, I feel a top legend should be only a movie director, who has taken every pain to complete a movie successfully.

ayyo pavam KH - 6th.... kodumada saami.. (An Actor, Singer, Director)

Jacky

28th July 2005, 03:17 PM

[tscii:71a4c3b71a]Balachander might overwhelm anyone with numbers but MR after BR is the big farce.
BR may be a trendsetter in Tamil but it was MR who took Tamil films to National levels.
And Rajni at 5! They’ve treated the self-proclaimed King harshly. :lol:
[/tscii:71a4c3b71a]

Cinefan

28th July 2005, 04:55 PM

Who is at 7,8,9,10(Am not able to go after 6)

KH at 6 after Rajni is a shame.What's the basis for this list?

dinesh2002

28th July 2005, 07:46 PM

that shows music overtakes movies,dirs,and actors....GREAT!!!:D:D:D...MUSIC LIVESS!! :D

alias

28th July 2005, 11:23 PM

This is totally unbelievable...IR now 1...cannot accept it. Legends are the one who continues to entertain ppl. till their end of lives, but IR music has stopped at 90s. So he cannot be called a legend same thing with BR and Balachander... The legends are Superstar, kamal Hassan, Mani Ratnam, MGR, Shivaji Ganesan

njv

29th July 2005, 12:04 AM

Scale

THANKS A LOT. Yes, I am celebrating.

Alias

Like dinesh mentioned, Music overtakes the rest. Music Livessssssss.

njv

29th July 2005, 12:14 AM

Here is my list

Musical Legends
IR, MSV, ARR

Lyrists
Kannadasan, Vaali, Vairamuthu

Actors
MGR, Sivaji, Rajni & Kamal

Actress
Savithri

Comedians
Nagesh, Chandrababu, Manorama, Koundamani-Senthil

Directors
KB, Bharathiraja, Manirathnam

Singers
SPB, KJY, Janaki, VJ

alias

29th July 2005, 02:34 AM

I think just what njv did, they should have seperated in their individual field instead of combining them. And how come Sivaji Ganesan name is missing?

MADDY

29th July 2005, 09:05 AM

so ARR taking india's name to the west is not at all a achievement??gr8,no qualms.........i dunno y ppl. r so happy for IR.....he has the biggest media support in TN after kalaignar.....so no wonder he gets such recognition.....whereas ARR is the fav whip-boy of tamil media and he was packed into a list of lincumpoofs-HJ,YSR,VS.....

it is a disgrace to leave out ARR from legends.....and who the heck r behindwoods to identify legends????let them stay "behind the woods" in dark , ARR and his fame(along with his fans :D ) will march ahead into bright horizons of peace and proseperity......

a big middle-finger slaute to behindwoods.......

Shankar

29th July 2005, 11:40 AM

>>.whereas ARR is the fav whip-boy of tamil media and he was packed into a list of lincumpoofs-HJ,YSR,VS.....<<

This is unfair, maddy...He's been hailed by the tamil media even before he deserved to be called a great ! And Raja is media's favourite ?!?!?! Media has always complained about his straight-fwd talk, and no nonsense attitude and they were more than happy when Arr got along with them well (I'm not saying its wrong...actually, that's how their relation should be) and they started writing-off Raja...

but when a work like TiS comes up, you don't have a choice but to take his side, because of the quality of work...You complain about his work in movies like kaNNAthA, thodaraum etc I will admit, it will be way to obvious if you complain about TiS...The media had to give it to him...Inspite of all this, a non-entity like gnaani was criticizing TiS..again it was not a technical review, he cannot do any technical review, he criticized Raja the person...
I haven't seen any review which technically criticized TiS.

Take it from me, a few weeks later if behindwoods comes up with Arr's name in the legends (and by chance they place him in the no 1 slot), you will say 'nothing like behindwoods' :-)

Shankar

29th July 2005, 11:42 AM

alias,
>>till their end of lives, but IR music has stopped at 90s.<<

you might just want to add IMHFO along with this stmt ...

MADDY

29th July 2005, 05:01 PM

no shanki.....i still remember kumudham or anandha vikatan reviewing Karuthama saying ARR composed it while sleeping......IR has always been pampered, even his sons r pampered now by the media......subbudu is nuthin but a boot-cleaner for IR and he has so much hatred for ARR that he likes HJ also and still criticises ARR.....madan was so happy to publish a IR interview where he used very lewd language to crticise ARR.....even now, i see sapthaswaram on SunTv(abaswaram IMO), that comperer licks so much abt IR and teams singing IR's songs win and teams singing ARR songs lose....have u ever noticed it??? TN media is the most unfaithful for the this legend who has taken Brand India to the west just like SRK and Aish.....i always wish ARR shuld have born as a Maharashtrian........

dinesh2002

29th July 2005, 05:07 PM

Cacaphonix

30th July 2005, 01:52 AM

My dislike (if not hate) of IR and ARR, at present, is their singing.

In general, I feel that in most cases, almost all MDs singers selection is also not great.

MADDY

30th July 2005, 08:47 AM

yaa dinesh....actually subuddu reviewed Kadhalan songs esp. ennavale in anantha vikatan i think.......he told that there were many raga disorders in the song and stuff.....he was most irritated with usage of UnniKrishnan, a promising carnatic musician........

he has always blamed the migration of carnatic singers to film music on ARR.....he did not believe in the versatility and adaptability of his own carnatic singers to both cine and kacheris.....

then he is a ardent admirer of IR....even we r guys...... but this guy went overboard saying IR is the authority in music and ppl. who r popular now r just like trainees for him,.....he obviously referred to ARR.......he also used to sarcastically criticise digital usage in songs in many of his articles..........

and to top it all, he named vaseegara as the song of 2001........he had told that there was some hope for TFM hereafter(entry of HJ)......i dunno wat was wrong in ennavale and wat was so rite in vaseegara.........

(subuddu is a deadly critic who has ended many ppl.'s career in carnatic music/TFM with his hard-hiting reviews, but in TFM, he could not throw out the king and inevitable-ARR :D )

dinesh2002

30th July 2005, 08:56 AM

vaseegara song of no 1 in 2001???????? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

wow,this subbudu guy really hates ARR & loves HJ huh....wow...wonder what he would say for DATING- boys man!! :P:P
do u think he know an album named sangamam exists???im sure he would have comented more worse there!how come no one actually gave him a piece of mind man! i think he is going overboard!!

Shankar

1st August 2005, 11:17 AM

Maddy,
Don't get me wrong...You seem to hate anybody who says anything bad about arr (I'm not complaining - you can expect this from a sincere fan of any person, even ramarajan if he had one :-) )

But, calling subbudu a boot-cleaner of Raja is unwarranted...Just because he found fault with arr, does he become an Raja chamcha ?!?! Raja respects him (and that's why he was one of the privileged few to have listened to Raja's symphony for r.p.o) and vice versa...

about vaseegara - What's wrong with the song ?!?! It gave a great opening for HJ... you have to admit certain facts...Vasaeegara was indeed good, and the most popular song of that year!

>>>
i see sapthaswaram on SunTv(abaswaram IMO), that comperer licks so much abt IR and teams singing IR's songs win and teams singing ARR songs lose....have u ever noticed it???
<<<

Imagination of a prejudiced mind :-) This is not true...

>>
Brand India to the west just like SRK and Aish
<<

Like SRK...well, I would any day prefer a kamal taking India to the west instead of that stuttering dud.

MADDY

1st August 2005, 08:38 PM

shankar ,even i wud have felt proud if kamal had taken India to west but sadly he doesent have the reach of SRK..........

the thing i hated abt subbudu was that he is so prejudiced abt his hatred towards ARR........and to me ARR is near-perfect,so i dunt like ARR being criticised by anyone (not even my GF :lol: ).......

alias

2nd August 2005, 12:10 AM

alias,
>>till their end of lives, but IR music has stopped at 90s.<<

you might just want to add IMHFO along with this stmt ...

Sorry for my ignorance here. what is IMHFO. I know IMO (in my opinion).

alias

2nd August 2005, 12:12 AM

who is subbudu? I can see he needs bashing but why he important like the guy who is condeming TIS :-)

MADDY

2nd August 2005, 11:21 AM

well shankar, in a way i actually want to thank this subbudu character........cos u need a Ravan to prove the gr8ness of Lord Rama..........similarly we need a subbudu to prove the gr8ness of ARR..........

Shankar

2nd August 2005, 12:08 PM

>>
even i wud have felt proud if kamal had taken India to west but sadly he doesent have the reach of SRK........
<<

Do you seriously think SRK has taken india to the west ?!?!
He's taken India to the NRIs in the west...that's all he's done...Is there a different thread/section to discuss actors ? I think that's the place we need to continue this discussion...IMO, SRK is a clown who can never give a commendable performance (in terms of good acting - Pls don't come up with arguments like "he's a tremendous screen presence etc", we are discussing high quality acting...just to preempt any other digression :-) )...He's never done it before, and will never do it in his lifetime...Forget kamal of thevar magan/nayagan....kamal of ninaithAlE inikkum is anyday better than SRK :-)

Shankar

2nd August 2005, 12:11 PM

maddy,
you don't need a bad guy to prop up a good guy's image...I like Rama not because he killed Ravana...because he had high morals and his unconditional love towards his parents and other beings...

If proving arr's greatness is the goal and if i were you, I would rather take the route of discussing his technical brilliance and nothing else (of course with substantial evidence - no handwaving, calling one genre another etc)

MADDY

2nd August 2005, 05:26 PM

if u dunt know abt rama then u r not a hindu
if u dunt know abt rahman then u r not a music lover

i think we have discussed enuf abt ARR's technical brilliance........there's no need for more certification from us....he is already gr8........shankar, ARR is too gr8 to put down for IR and u'll never find ARR fans accepting that he is lesser to IR.....so try ur luck for SRK v/s Kamal, u mite win..........

alias

2nd August 2005, 08:05 PM

Shankar, I dont think you know about Badshah of Bollywood. You have to watch his acting in Baazigaar, DDLJ, Daar and the recent Swades to know what he can do. I agree most of the time he acts the same way but it is not because of him but the movies offered to him. Look at his acting skill in Dilse and u will know why he is called the King of Bollywood. Since Kamal has got the national award, it does not mean he is nowhere near Kamal except he does not want to take the risk. Thats all.

I think if Rama has not killed Ravana, then Ramayan would not have been formed and we would not have known the skills and greatness of Rama. Because of Ravana, we know Rama and same here with jerks like subbudu i guess

MADDY

2nd August 2005, 09:19 PM

rightly said, alias........ :D

pronounce Rahman with 'h' silent....u'll get Raman......... that's ARR......our lord....... :D

Shankar

3rd August 2005, 10:28 AM

>>>>
if u dunt know abt rama then u r not a hindu
if u dunt know abt rahman then u r not a music lover
<<<<

Well, poonai kaNNai moodikkoNdAl ulagamE irunduvittadhu enru ninakkumAm...

>>>>
u'll never find ARR fans accepting that he is lesser to IR
<<<<

Never would a loyal fan accept the other person is great...The point is not accepting it..How do you defend your case in an *objective* manner is what matters...and there, i have seen nobody proving ARR is greater than Raja.

Shankar

3rd August 2005, 10:29 AM

>>>>
Since Kamal has got the national award, it does not mean he is nowhere near Kamal except he does not want to take the risk.
<<<<

Aththaikku meesai muLaichAl chittappA is a popular adage in tamil...mulaichAl dhAnE ?!?! Since he has not done it, there's no point comparing him with Kamal.

alias

3rd August 2005, 07:37 PM

Shankar, what is there to prove that ARR is greater than IR.. The history has already told us. IR was overthrown overnight by the greatest ARR. So what more do u want? If IR was that great, coming of ARR would have not made any impact on his career but we know how his career got affected and he started doing movies which did not made any sense. Only his loyals approached him with expection of Thangar Bachan and Kasi director Vinayan. Else IR would have disappeared from the scene of TFM. This itself proves the greatness of ARR. In Hindi there is a saying "Samajdhar ko ishaara kaafi" means Signal is enough for the wiser.

And coming to SRK, he has long way to go and he will defintely prove and already proven that he is one of the greatest star of India. He can act in any lang. and prove but Kamal has miserably failed in North.

Music4Ever

3rd August 2005, 07:51 PM

"IR was overthrown overnight by the greatest ARR. So what more do u want? If IR was that great, coming of ARR would have not made any impact on his career but we know how his career got affected and he started doing movies which did not made any sense. Only his loyals approached him with expection of Thangar Bachan and Kasi director Vinayan. Else IR would have disappeared from the scene of TFM. This itself proves the greatness of ARR. In Hindi there is a saying "Samajdhar ko ishaara kaafi" means Signal is enough for the wiser."

IR declined after being at the top for nearly 15 years, a significant achievement. You are comparing two whose peaks were in different eras. Can you say with certainty that ARR's peak is greater than IR's peak? ARR is still composing but at the end of the day, I believe it will be 1) Ilayaraja and 2) ARR. And I like ARR's music very much.

alias

3rd August 2005, 07:55 PM

yes music4ever, thats true, I was planning to edit my post. I should have said that. I had never said IR is not great. He is actually far more than excellent during his peak but what irritates me is that when ppl. say IR is still ruling and inferior to ARR. But as you said at the end of day it is 1) ARR 2) IR to me.

MADDY

3rd August 2005, 08:16 PM

"and there, i have seen nobody proving ARR is greater than Raja."

Well, poonai kaNNai moodikkoNdAl ulagamE irunduvittadhu enru ninakkumAm...

repeattuuuuuuuuu............. :lol:

svaisn

3rd August 2005, 08:21 PM

"and there, i have seen nobody proving ARR is greater than Raja."

Well, poonai kaNNai moodikkoNdAl ulagamE irunduvittadhu enru ninakkumAm...

repeattuuuuuuuuu............. :lol:

poonai kaNNai moodikkoNdAl ulagamE irunduvittadhu enru ninakkumAm...

okay vaa :-)

Scale

3rd August 2005, 08:26 PM

but what irritates me is that when ppl. say IR is still ruling and inferior to ARR. But as you said at the end of day it is 1) ARR 2) IR to me.

alias!

Its only (HC)IR fans still dirge & howling for that and not everyone in general.

Utmost, We (ARR fans & whole india(peak)) can just convey our hearty condolences to them. :(

Music4Ever

3rd August 2005, 09:57 PM

"but what irritates me is that when ppl. say IR is still ruling and inferior to ARR."

Alias, perhaps you meant to write "and superior to ARR"? Have you listened to all of IR's songs? His innumerable hit songs boggles the mind. Many of his non-hit songs are also at least of the calibre of many Deva songs of today.

IR is not ruling today, but that is not because of ARR. It is just that he has gotten old and cannot compete with today's music tastes, just like MSV could not compete with IR because of people's changing music tastes of the late seventies. It does not mean that ARR overthrew IR or the latter MSV. Such sentiments, though, can be burning in the "losing" MD's bosoms since they are only human. It is usually hard to digest when you have to step down from a throne which has been all yours for so many years and that may explain why the "losing" MD is usually sullen and blames everybody for his ouster. Everyone has to bow out of the scene some day.

alias

4th August 2005, 12:41 AM

But music4ever, if you see IR decline, it happened right after ARR entry. Yes,one way to put it like what u said and another way, ARR sound mermerised the entire nation and people who were listening the sound of IR for 15 years wanted a change and so IR was left behind forever.

And also Deva is like that drop in an ocean of IR and ARR. So no way to compare these MDs like YSR, Deva, VS, HJ,Bhartwaj etc. They are just drop.

ARR IS AN OCEAN OF MUSIC AND OTHERS ARE DROP IN THAT OCEAN. (EXCLUDE IR OUT OF THIS).

rajasaranam

4th August 2005, 01:15 AM

I dont understand for how many more days, these crap will be repeated that 'ARR overthrew IR' :? till the whole of tamilnadu vote for ARR as the best MD. thats not going to happen in 1000's of years to come.Its IR and Only IR who will be known as their best MD for eons to come.IR is immortal and an eternal ocean of music. Dream on babies :lol:
30 years and still going strong is enough for us IR fans. lets see how many more days ARR will sustain :rotfl: :poke: :notworthy:

rajasaranam

4th August 2005, 01:18 AM

MADDY,

Its 2 years since you took the survey on who is the best MD. go ahead and try your luck now may be times would have changed :D

alias

4th August 2005, 02:39 AM

People like you are dreaming that IR is ruling and best MD till now but dude, please wake up from your dream. It is already fulfilled for us. And as far as ARR substaining the day he will retire, he will retire gracefully unlike IR scoring for a platform directors and producers and asking money to compose symphony

MADDY

4th August 2005, 08:42 AM

hey guys, it was ARR's songs that threw IR's songs out, but it was never ARR throwing IR out.....IR is still the undisputed king in hearts of the ppl. of TN.......India Today attributes a change in face of TN to IR.....wat else is left to say???

ARR's fan base is the smallest with brahmins,economically low class still preferring IR to ARR......for brahmins, ARR is the epitome of western culture and they blindly support IR's gr8ness as he is a xpert in carnatic music.........low class ppl. cannot understand songs beyond pettai rap and ARR has never given songs like vaadi vaadi......when u take the age group, it is ppl. betn 15-28 who grew up to ARR like him.....ppl. above 30 simply hate ARR as they grew up to IR's music........and there r many more factors which makes ARR a very weak and almost a non-existing entity in TN.........

having said all this, his albums sell 10 times more than IR which is a prefect case for "X-files".....can anyone xplain this??? :D

Shankar

4th August 2005, 09:50 AM

Maddy,
>>>>>>>
ARR's fan base is the smallest with brahmins,economically low class still preferring IR to ARR......for brahmins, ARR is the epitome of western culture and they blindly support IR's gr8ness as he is a xpert in carnatic music.........low class ppl. cannot understand songs beyond pettai rap and ARR has never given songs like vaadi vaadi......when u take the age group, it is ppl. betn 15-28 who grew up to ARR like him.....ppl. above 30 simply hate ARR as they grew up to IR's music

<<<<<<<<<<<,

again a classic case of arguing without substantiation !! :-)

I hate to do this...I'm a brahmin (sigh -its idiotic to keep these tags of brahmin, thEvar, mudaliars) ....and I am 27 :-))
You know where my loyalty lies...its not just me, there are thousands (append a few more zeroes if you want) of 'brahmins' who still worship Raja.

Ultimately, any music director worth his salt should be able to penetrate all the classes of people...and I don't think arr has done it...Your arguments and stats are like sify's movie collection stats...they check chennai and chennai alone, and would claim this movie is a super hit...but the movie would've flopped bigtime in places like coimbatore, trichy, madurai etc...Whether you accept it or not...Raja is still the general public's Raja.

Shankar

4th August 2005, 09:51 AM

>>>>>>>
having said all this, his albums sell 10 times more than IR which is a prefect case for "X-files".....can anyone xplain this???
<<<<<<<

Precisely...how do you explain this...one possibility you might want to think about is the veracity of the source you get these info from :-)

Jacky

4th August 2005, 10:27 AM

[tscii:c117b0ee0b]IMHO, two popular fallacies I ever find on this forum

*Attributing ARR's audio sales just to Chennai – I personally don't think Chennai market alone is so big to award ARR a hefty salary for 12 years.

*Attributing IR's lack of audio sales to middle aged/old people who don't buy cassettes but believes in free music through radio. Any good music has penetrating power. Not many would buy Pithamagan cassette for 50rs just for one Ilankatru Vesuthey! People who are below poverty line would probably be content to wait till infinity to listen to their favorite song on radio, others who belong to the middle class would certainly spend 45RS if they find 3-4 good songs in an album. IMO, IR hasn't been consistent in packing an album with at least 4 good songs in last few years.
When he does that he'd sell 1 lakh cassettes in 2 days or even more!
Another biggest loss point for IR is the 'rehash factor' which has its direct impact on sales.

[/tscii:c117b0ee0b]

rajasaranam

4th August 2005, 12:00 PM

MADDY

4th August 2005, 12:03 PM

rajasaranam

4th August 2005, 12:08 PM

And about this Rehash stuff - we dont have anything to argue as IR has himself accepted that he does Rehash and recycle playing with the 7 notes :)
And it seems ARR has more notes than 7 and he creates new tunes and orchestration for each and every song :lol:

rajasaranam

4th August 2005, 12:19 PM

also, IR's music is simple w/o any complexities.......he is more popular than St.Thiyagaraja, that doesent make IR more popular than the saint.........similarly ARR's music is very complex with fusion of western genres & a gr8 recording quality which IR never thought was necessary for tamil ppl..........so ppl look upon ARR as alien moere than their own.......

Its not greatness to make sound a simple song complex. But it is definetely greater to make a complex song sound simple which has been the way of IR.
give me some links which analyse the songs of ARR in musical terms. i can flood you with analysis being done on IR's songs.
Even a dappanguthu like 'Singari sarakku' will have complex rhythm pattern and WCM orchestration but the fusion would be so seamless that no body will know it while listening.
As far Recording quality is concerned yeah ARR beats IR. but we can listen to a IR song in high end playing system as wel as village 'kozhai speaker' Its a balance between both. While try listening to ARR songs in a 'kozhai speaker' youll know why IR's recording were like that :)

Scale

4th August 2005, 12:38 PM

[quote=MADDY]
give me some links which analyse the songs of ARR in musical terms. i can flood you with analysis being done on IR's songs.

One of the best genuine review on musical terms(100%), for an underrated album . Need more.....

Kangalal Kaidhu Sei
A. R. Rahman
Reviewed by Swaps (@ 202.149.218.62) on: Wed Jan 7 09:48:07 EST 2004

Bharathiraja returns after a long time with his directorial venture "Kangalal Kaidhu Sei" (Arrest me with your eyes). The important news is that he teams up with his one-time favourite music composer & our all-time favourite, A.R.Rahman (Isai Puyal Raghuman...as he says!). The last time the two teamed up was 'Taj Mahal' in 1999 which was musically a hit. The speciality of Bharatiraja's music lies in his love & admiration for folk music which was reflected in his previous films. Rahman's major folk tunes were for Bharathiraja's films. Listen to 'Kizhakku cheemayile' or 'Karuthamma' or 'Taj Mahal'; u'll find that Baharathiraja has always explored rich folk traditional tunes of Tamil Nadu. His special choice of singers reiterated the same point- Kunjaramma, T.K.Kala, Shahul Hameed, Sunantha, M.Vasudevan, Mano, S.P.B, Sasirekha, T.L.Maharajan, Sreeram, Kalpana, Arunthathi, Manoj, Chitra, Sumangali, Swarnalatha & others. Rahman-Bharathiraja's greatest magic worked in 'Anthimanthaarai'. Though it was a low-budget film with just 3 songs, Rahman's genius proved again. The song 'Sakhiye' by Unnikrishnan remains one of the best composed Carnatic songs by ARR. Looking back at these musical albums, one agrees that Bharathiraja is one of the few directors who has a musical ear & can extract the best out of a composer. Other such directors being Maniratnam, Subhash Ghai, Rajiv Menon, Shankar.
'Kangalal Kaidhu Sei' came out at such a time when Tamil music had become mundane & monotonous. After the success of 'Boys' every other film was based on youth or adolescence & it had typically youth-oriented music. Rahman's 'E20U18' was no exception either. I remember a poll in some site where they had asked about ARR's future hits which included 'E20..', 'Ayutha ezhuthu', 'New' & 'KKS'. Unfortunately, 'KKS' was the least-voted album. When it came out, everyone felt that its gonna be just another regular ARR album. But, when I heard it, I was the happiest person! I was overjoyed listening to each melody which had a distinct flavour & all those who longed for ARR's 'Vintage' sound, 'KKS' was their end to complain. Truly, this is one of the best albums recently & is a collector's album. All those who cherished 'Roja', 'Bombay', 'Rangeela', 'Thiruda Thiruda' will definitely love this one. Bharathiraja enters the romantic-fiction scene in this film, leaving behind hsi usual folk-based themes. He laeves the bullock-carts running on the raw strets of Tamil Nadu villages & climbs upto BMWs & Mercedes' in foreign locales. This proved to be a boon to ARR. When someone experiments, ARR is the first one to be excited. Rahman has used a lot of young talent in this album as a part of his tradition. One more common factor of Bharathiraja-ARR albums was the prescence of Vairamuthu. This time Bharathiraja gives chance to the young & upcoming lyricist, Pa.Vijay along with Kabilan & Thenmozhi. This film introduces 2 new actors, Priyamani & Vaseegaran. The album kicks off with the traditional Bharathiraja speech (Cud he do without it?).

Rating scale- ***** mind-blowing
**** good
*** average
** could have been better
* nothing special

1. Azhagiya Cindrella (Hariharan; lyric by Pa.Vijay):

One more medal for ARR-Hari combo! This combo has always worked wonders from day 1...'Tu hi re', 'Nahin samne', 'Suttum vizhi', 'Nilakaigiradhu', 'Chanda re' & many more. This song is like those 'candy-floss', extremely sweet & diabetic. Its a soft, romantic number; rendered beautifully by Hariharan. Its very much like 'Pookum malarai' from Udhaya. The arrangements are soft with less percussions and oodles of chords. The song starts with soft beats along with guitars just as Hari enters the scene with the first 2 lines 'Aruvigal melanokki...'. Throughout the song, Rahman has enhanced the sound with lots of chords following each line. These 2 lines give us an impression of Bilawal (exact notations- Re Ga Pa Sa Ni Pa Ga, Sa Ni Pa Ga, Dha Pa, all shuddha swaras) but the very next lines "ennai ennake.." change the whole perception. The chords change while employing a Komal Dhaivat. Its so beautiful that the whole beauty of a song can be change just by adding a different chord. This is Rahman! After all this, Hari renders the punch lines "Azhagiya Cindrella" while one hears support from the piano in the backdrop. With these lines, one can make out that the lover is comparing his beloved to Cindrella (like a fairy tale)! Again the following lines have changing chord progressions...'ennai enakkethaan...' with a strong bass guitar (like in 'Enswasa katre'). Hari uses a seductive voice in these lines as he goes in the upper pitch and the strings follow. The interlude is harmony based. The female harmony takes centre stage to render the lines "konji konji vandhaal". It cannot be termed as an interlude; its a part of the song. ARR has not followed a typical mukhda-antara pattern (as most of his songs). The antara (charanam) is in the same tune as the opening lines of the song. I would like to highlight a portion in the antara. Listen to the lines "indru varai vaazhnthu mudiththen" & then listen to "ennai thoda aavi silirnththen". The 1st time its in the normal tune but the 2nd time, Hari beautifully slips down to a different note (when I heard it for the 1st time, I though he cracked his voice!). Instead of coming down to shuddha gandhar he slips down to komal gandhar; changing the overall mood of the song. This is the best part about the song. Otherwise, the song would have sounded too monotonous & repetitive. The rest is same. The 2nd interlude starts with the female harmony again but with Hari doing different alaaps in the higher pitch (almost like the line 'Preyasee' in Nahin Saamne from Taal). When he's just about to finish, the heavenly saxophone enters. Rahman has got a personal favouritism for the sax of late ('Sabaq aisa' from Tehzeeb, 'Kama kama' from E20, 'Boom Boom' from Boys). The overall melody is based on western symphony with more influence of jive, ballads & blues. The 2nd antara is again the same. If u go to see, the tune is pretty much ordinary; but Rahman infuses such minor elements which lift up the song to become one of the memorable ones. For a layman, its a very simple tune, only a connaisseur can pay attention to the minute details he's worked on. Truly mesmerising! This song has already captured young hearts & is going to become one of Rahman's best romantic numbers.
Rating: ****1/2

2. Anaarkali (Karthik, Chitra Sivaraman; lyric by Pa.Vijay):

Rahman's current favourite singer-couple, Karthik & Chitra Sivaraman (Star, Boys & KKS), croon this beautiful song. It is implied since last few years that there will be atleast 1 track by Karthik. He's a good singer (I loved 'Sakthi kodu' from Baba; a young teenager singing such a mature song for Rajnikanth!). This song is very unique both in terms of treatment & flavour. It has a predominantly Hindustani (North-Indian) flavour with a treatment of fusion. The song starts with a duduk-like sound with lots of manjiras, immediately followed by sargams (solfa notes)...'Ga Re Re Sa Sa...'. The sargams r sung in harmony, the interesting part being, they say the same notes while actually singing different ones. The 1st time its 'Ga Re Re Sa Sa, Ni Sa Sa Sa...', 2nd time its 'Pa Ma Ma Ga Ga, Re Ga Ga Ga', & lastly 'Ni Ni Ni Pa Pa, Ma Pa Pa Pa'. He's maintained the same swaras to avoid chaos & confusion. If all the 3 pieces had to sung differently, it wud have sounded like a mess. This is followed by a traditional Hindustani bandish (pallavi), "Jaa jaa re apne mandirawa". Again ARR uses digital modulations to make the sound more techno-fusion. Interestingly, they havent mentioned the singers who've sung this part. The credits go to brother-singer duo Murtuza & Qadir Ghulam (Fiza, Saathiya). The song is based on Rahman's all time favourite raga Bhimpalasi (Abheri). The song has an interesting Qawwali feel, the main percussion being tabla. This is one of the few songs which can boast of fantastic tabla-work. After singing the lines 'jaa jaa re..', the cymbals create entry for the main song to begin, which is dutifully done by Karthik. The song has the interesting word 'Anaarkali', used from History (Prince Salim's girlfriend; extremely beautiful) while describing his beloved as the most beautiful woman on earth (u r the sky & u r my earth). Karthik 's vocals cannot be doubted, he's one of the few singers whose talent has been rightly exploited by ARR. While Karthik is singing, the tabla continues but it has been faded. Chitra Sivaraman, too, gets her due. Immediately, she follows Karthik to render the pallavi. She's becoming one of ARR's regulars (Boys, E20 & KKS in a row). But when she sings, u can hear a crystal clear Tabla. The guitars supporting the lines 'kaadhal kaatru nee naan paaymaram' is very soothing. The 1st interlude marks the return of Rahman in his vintage days. The rhythm is like a typical qawwali with claps (like in 'Kehna hi kya' from Bombay). The guitars take the centre stage for a while, then Naveen's flute take over. The flute is similar to that of the interludes of 'Khamoshiyaan' from 1 2 ka 4. After that one wonders which instrument has ARR used; it sounds so different. After concentrated hearings, it became clear that its a simple case voice modulation. The voice 'Anaarkali' has been digitally modulated. The charanam, quite usually, doesnt follow the Abheri structure. It shifts from the raga to a western feel. The vocal style is also quite westernised. The strings provide ample backbone thruout. But again, when Karthik sings his lines, it returns to Abheri, with the tabla. The best lines come during the end. 'Nadai nadanthu pogayil..' by Karthik is just very nostalgic. And then the surprise...the last word of the charanam 'nee ilakkiyame' uses a flat/ komal dhaivat (not at all close to the main melody). When Karthik returns to the pallavi, u can hear a pan-flutish sound in the background. The composition is first rate with many minute complications. How must he be thinking of all this? The 2nd interlude is the highlight. Though it has the same opening lines 'Jaa jaa re...', its the tabla that makes u go bonkers. If u just close ur eyes & listen, u may mistaken it for Zakir Hussain! But, its our own Neelkanthan whose tabla speaks. U can acually visualise the intense spees of his fingers. The sound of the 'bahya' (left hand of the tabla producing the bass sound) is something to hear. Its accompanied by ghungroos, manjiras & claps. Then it shifts to a western symphony. The 2nd charnam is identical. The song has come out very well in all the departments. Towards the end, while singing the concluding lines of the pallavi, the beats of tha tabla change. It ends with the sargams & 'Jaa jaa re..' which is again digittaly modulated. The duduk ends the song with the manjiras. What a treat! At 1st listening, the song may not impress much, but I advise u to listen to it with great detail.
Rating: *****

3. Ennuir thozhiye (Unnimenon, Chinmayi; lyric by Pa.Vijay):

If I go over the board praising this song, I mean it in every sense & with full confidence. This song deserves every bit of praise. The Rahman magic works wonderfully here. After listening to the song, I was assured that all those who requested ARR to compose like his vintage days, will stop complaining. This song has the 'Roja' sound- the freshness of Roja, the experimental nature of Thiruda thiruda, the uniqueness of Bombay & the simplicity of Pudhiya Mugam. I've rarely heard such a beautiful & sweet song in my entire life. Each line of the song is like a honey-drop. The song opens with ARR's solo piano. The sound of the piano is scintillating. ARR attempts a jazz like treatment while sticking to the roots of the main melody. The song is based on the pentonic Raga Durga (Shuddha Saveri- Sa Re Ma Pa Dha Sa), which is premierly used by Rahman. The strings (cellos & violins) support the piano. The piece goes on for about 30 secs & u already crave for more. Its like an alaap any singer starts before performimg a raga in a classical concert. He sets the mood of the song with his magical fingers. The rhythm is set by the heavy bass guitar accompanied by the accoustic guitars. Unnimenon sings the lines 'Ennuir thozhiye'. Unnimenon's real genius comes out in this song. He comes out of the Yesudas mould to deliver an original. The bass guitar used towards the end of the lines reminds me of the title song of Enswasa Katre. Suddenly, the melody shifts to build a musical crescendo. The piano glides over the notes with the cymbals to create a western symphonic sound, employing totally different notes (Ni Re Ga Ma Ga, Re Ma Ga, Re Ma Ga, Re Sa Sa Pa Pa Re, the underlining denotes the notes of the lower octave). The percussion arrangement is also of a western nature. Unni returns to sing the pallavi in Raga Durga. The composition is very smooth. It explores the essence of the raga. After 2 lines, the song changes (as the previous music changed). The lines r 'Ineeyavale...' which r sung in a higher pitch. The 1st interlude is very unique. For once u feel, how beautiful the violin sounds! But no, its not the violin, its vocals. Chinmayi humms the taanams flawlessly. Its done so baeutifully. The piano follows her, when at times just glides from the upper notes to the lower ones as if a river is flowing. The 1st charanam belongs to Chinmayi. She does a fantastic job. Her voice seems so fresh & calm! The opening lines of the charanam 'Ottrai jadayil..' r very catchy. The beauty lies in the way it has been composed. Listen to the 2nd line 'enathu kalla sirippazhagil...'. It beautifully drops from an upper note to a lower one. Immediately, the very next line picks up from Sa Re, Re Dha, Dha Re` (Kattidithe thangam imay paarthathundaa...sign ` denotes the notes of the higher octave) with the strings. This really pours in the tenderness & subtleness in the song. After the lines 'Oru nanjam undu...' u can hear the violin plucks (another favourite ARR style). Lastly, the charanam ends with a rather cross-treatment of notes like Sa`-Pa-Dha-Ma-Dha-Pa-Ma-Re-Sa (Poo-Poo-en-aasai-theernthathu). Unni returns to the pallavi. The 2nd interlude starts with a moorsing-like sound & then pan-flutes enter (both reproduced electronocally). The pan-flute piece resembles a lot like the 1st interlude of 'Thengizhakku cheemayile' from Kizhakku cheemayile. These types of interludes remind u of golden ARR days. The pan-flutes were a common feature then. There's this percussion with heavy bass (dont know the name) which appears in the 2nd interlude & continues till the end. Its played after every 4 counts. Its the kind of percussion used in 'Chinna chinna aasai' from Roja. Coming back, The 2nd charanam is identically same, only difference is that both the singers distribute their lines. The string arrangement is more evident here. Interestingly, when Chinmayi sings the lines 'Endhan seviyil sinungukiraay', u can hear the pan-flute in the background which does not follow the Durga pattern; instead it uses a shuddha gandhar. U'll have to haer it very carefully. In the end, both the singers sing their parts of the pallavi. Unni wraps up the song by extending the word 'enna enna' in a typical classical finale fashion, i.e. in alaap. This song is an absolute treat to listen. It caught my interest from day 1. It can be listed in ARR's best composed romantic sons ever! Singers+Composition+Arrangement+Emotions+Appeal= Full Marks!
Rating: ***** (Can I over-rate it???)

4. Theekkuruvi (Harini, Mukesh, Johnson; lyric by Thenmozhi):

This song can be termed as having the Bharathiraja trademark. Its folkish yet classical. The raw folk numbers in Karuthamma & K.Cheemayile like 'Maanothu mandhayile', 'Ethukku pondatti', 'Ondra rendu', 'Kadu potta', & many more fall in this category. But here Rahman tries to make the sound more appealing to all kinds of audiences. In short, it has a universal appeal. ARR chooses Harini to sing (she's got an extremely sweet voice with a strong classical background) along with 2 newcomers- Mukesh & Johnson. Mukesh is the Mega-Final winner of the popular music talent show called 'Raj Geetham' on Raj T.V. Johnson gets to sing the folk parts whereas Mukesh does the lead singing. The song starts with a fast moorsing-like instrument immediately followed by Johnson's lines. The lines r quite interesting, 'Edhoma edho maadhiri...' which instantly catch ur attention. Johnson has a typical raw folk voice (like Maharajan, M.S.V., Shahul, etc.) & this proves to be an advantage here. Thruout the song, u'll hear temple bells which adds to the ancient/ vintage flavour of the song. After that, u'll really have to lend ur ears close to ur speakers. In the beginning, u'll not understand a word. Its sung so fast., 'thalaival ivathaan sillendru pattaa, kaadhal ivathaan sullunnu suttaa'. Its like those folkmen singing while working or travelling. After these lines, ARR creates an ambience for the song by reproducing wind & wave sounds. Harini begins the song which somewhat seems like a tongue-twister! For others, it may sound wierd. But the melody used is extremely engrossing & captivating. ARR has used a blend of ragas like Hamsadhwani, Shankarabharanam, Arabhi, Kalyani. The chords which he gives in each line r amazing. Its like filling empty spaces. In the last lines 'Theeyinai thee nadhiyinil thaedukiraay thandhiraa', Harini stops at upper Sa & then beautifully decends to the lower Sa with a brisk taanam encompassing all the notes(Sa Ni Dha Pa Ma Ga Re Sa). Mukesh takes over the rest of the pallavi which is prettymuch the same. The percussions r westernised while the melody is purely Indian. This can be called a true fusion. Everytime, they finish the pallavi, Johnson takes over with the opening lines. The 1st interlude is quite brief, with just a small piece of the flute. It reminds me of the 2nd interlude of 'Vellai pookkal' from Kannathil. The piece tends to shift towards raga Kalyani employing the Teevra Madhyam towards the end. The charanams r equally challenging to sing. The female part is handled very well. Harini's voice has been blended cleverly where she sings the same lines in both upper & lower pitches. In the 1st charanam, Harini sings 2 lines & Mukesh takes over. The lines 'Idayoara moondraam piraye muththam aendhi vaa' employ a Shuddha Madhyam which really enhances the beauty of the song. This is the part where the raga shifts to Shankarabharanam. The 2nd interlude is awesome. After Johnson finishes his lines, ARR uses an electronic Mandolin (previously heard in 'Malargale' from Love Birds). Its quite a short piece but is played with great speed & command. U wish this cud continue for longer! When Mukesh starts the 2nd charanam with an alaap, his voice has been digitally modulated with cuts. Harini sings the rest of the charanam. But the real mgic starts towards the end. While Harini ends the song, ARR layers her alaaps. She begins from the Upper Sa to the lower one, Upper Re to Lower Re & finally to upper Ga. This is called Meend in Hindustani terms. And then, everything stands still when u hear her double-speed taanams. God! she's too good. Its really difficult to take taanams at this speed. U feel like applauding already! Finally, Johnson & Harini attempt a jugalbandi. Johnson sings his lines 'Thalaival ivathaan sillundra pattaa' & then Harini sings the taanams Pa Ni Sa Re` Sa Ni Pa, 3 times. The 'vote of thanks' is done by Naveen's ever-dependable flute. He plays the main tune of the song in his style while the temple bells create a climax & by rounding up with the notes of Hamsadhwani. This song has a typical Kerela flavour & u'll agree when u listen to the song 'Padakaali' from Yoddha. Malayalam folk songs have this speciality of singing in double-speed. Other Kerela-flavour songs composed by Rahman r 'Jiya Jale', 'Anjanam', 'Kuluvaalile', etc. This is definitely one of the best composed songs. Actually, the lyrics r so catchy that even if u dont understand a word, it amuses u to the core. There's a certain degree of anxiety & curuosity of what they r singing. Marvellously composed & arranged. Mukesh sounds fresh (very much like Karthik), Johnson's raw voice suits the mood & there's nothing more to say about Harini. Her singing speaks for her.I wish Rahman had used some traditional Indian percussions like thavil or mridangam. It would have added to the beauty of the song. ARR hasnt used the mridangam since a very long time.

Rating: *****

5. Aaha tamizhamma (Mathangi, Reyhana, Blaaze; lyric by Kabilan):

This song is a shift from the other songs in the album. The other songs r either classical-based or folk or romantic. This is a more youth-oriented, carefree number. It carries the 'Boys' & 'E20' tag. Mathangi is ARR's current favourite among the freshers. Reyhana joins her after a long time. Blaaze (Balaji, as written in Tamil on the cover) doesnt get much to do here but again, its just the association & importance one gets after being with ARR. The song does have a Carnatic base but the treatment is totally of a pop song. The song starts with female harmony 'Booyekku booyekku shock...na na na..."(thats what I can hear) with unique percussions (like banging a dish). Thruout the song, u'll hear digital sounds & samples. The main rhythm is similar to that of 'Shakalaka Baby'. Its very catchy & groovy. The song definitely reminds me of the title song of 'Paarthale Paravasam' with the female harmony singers. The keyboard piece which follows is very innovative. Like the voice-cuts, ARR has cut the sound of the entire keyboard piece rhythmically. This piece, as told by someone, is an old Bharatiyaar song. Rahman has remixed it(he's gonna remix an old Tamil number for the film 'New'). The song has some amusing lyrics like 'Aa..ee...uu..ae...oo' (like teaching small kids). The highlight of the song is definitely the female harmony. There r layers of harmonies going on at the same time. When they return to 'booyekku shock...' there's a clarinet-like instrument going in the back. As ARR's trademark, he leaves no corner untouched! The bass guitar needs special mention. When Mathangi sings her lines, u can hear Blaaze singing some wierd words like 'Kaa..kaa..chaa..chaa'. Mathangi infuses a degree of sensousness in the song. There's no fixed structure of a pallavi-charanam. The lines r alternatively sung by the 2 singers. I love the harmony created in the lines 'mooru moorai nee paarthu'. The chorus part after 'thumbikku koondhalai' which is sung in double speed ('sudathida varuvaa)really catches attention. The song gets ample support from the chords department, especially in the charanams. The 2nd interlude is an extension of the opening keyboard piece with ghungroos & hard percussions(seems a lot like the interlude of 'Thiruvalli keni rani' from Udhaya). The charanams r similar. The harsh voice is Reyhana's while the sweet one is Mathangi's. The entire pallavi is repeated in the end. The female chorus sings only in one tone the last time (without the harmony), as if they're chanting. Blaaze ends the song with his wierd sounding words & giggling sometimes. The same interlude piece is used to conclude the song. But, the song ends very abruptly with a Blaaze's strange voice (as if someone's hit him!). The song is unique for its treatment & appeal. It'll appeal to both classes & masses. I'm sure, the youth is going to like it. If they've appreciated Boys & E20, they'll surely love this. Even if the song doesnt have the standard of a master composition, its charm lies in its simplicity & appeal.
Rating: ****

I'm sure many will agree with my comments (though they've come in very late), I would love to recieve ur feedback as usual. I can proudly put this album in the league of Roja, Bombay, Rangeela, Taal, Jeans, etc.

Overall Rating: ***** (this is from my heart!)

P.S.: This review is based on personal judgement & does not intend to hurt anybody's personal feelings.

Long Live The Genius
Swaps

rajasaranam

4th August 2005, 01:13 PM

Scale

4th August 2005, 01:30 PM

One of the best genuine review on musical terms(100%), for an underrated album . Need more.....

Sure Need more... not a Ctrl+V and ctrl+C from an overenthusiastic blogger.
May be this is the only one link you found in net...
But the review was written in great style which has made to think about listening to KKS

RS! Its Ctrl C & Cntrl V (copy & then paste) & not the other way :lol: . I swear I didnt do that, instead i selected the content clicked edit menu copy,switched to forum and again clicked past in edit menu... Didnt U ask for a review on musical terms?

If you need more genuine reviews, get immediately subscribed to ARR YG which has got 6000+ members where you will find more musical genius (master in reviewing an album than yr hindu, sify, IR thread (HCIR fans) etc....) from every part of the world (not just tamil speaking).

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/arrahmanfans/messages

If I can write such an awesome review, I wouldnt be here.Definetly working with ARR.

Hope to see you there with more enthusiasm from you with a different avatar :wink: ( :roll: can certainly guess yr reply here).

Jacky

4th August 2005, 01:32 PM

Rajasaranam,
I wasn't talking WRT to ARR or any pop album composer. Compare the trash he's giving these days to his own good albums like Bharathi, Heyram, and Virumandi. His music for unknown directors is a big let down.
Though a Piraye Piraye deserves the touch it needs, you've just attributed his complete works as situation songs for a movie where it is not the case! So Goldsmith analogy finds no place here except by saying so you may find some solace. He is inconsistent is the truth no matter how you conceal it but I'm never denying the Genius in him. After all it's the Genius in him which makes me expect something good more often that what he's giving nowadays.

Shankar

4th August 2005, 01:33 PM

shankar, even i'm a brahmin, but i hate to be called one after their prejudice towards ARR.....

i'm not arguing w/o substantiation....me and my mba grad friend took a survey of 150 sample in chennai city.........so dunt think i bluff.....i dunt know,but u always think i bluff.......pls sir have respect on other's views......adhu seri IR-fan kitta ithulaam ethirpaarka mudiyuma???

one more thing, ARR hasd sold more than anyone in the history.....u can ask any tom,dick and harry in audio industry, they will say so...Boys revived audio market is a known fact........

IR being more popular is bcos he has gievn the music of the soil.......obviously he will get more support...u know real madrid fans like raul better than zidane and beckham cos raul is their own though beckham and zidane r gr8er.......

also, IR's music is simple w/o any complexities.......he is more popular than St.Thiyagaraja, that doesent make IR gr8er than the saint.........similarly ARR's music is very complex with fusion of western genres & a gr8 recording quality which IR never thought was necessary for tamil ppl..........so ppl look upon ARR as alien more than their own.......only open minded ppl. can accept ARR......

take the xample of u and me,shankar, i can listen to ARR and IR as well....but u cant listen to ARR or accept that he is gr8.......

See...this is the problem with you, maddy....You create your opinion about someone without knowing the complete history...I have never derided good works of arr...and I haven't made childish statements like
>>>>>>
adhu seri IR-fan kitta ithulaam ethirpaarka mudiyuma???
<<<<<<

Your being caste brahmin seems to be true...You kind of have a fixed/prejudiced view of people not belonging to your clan (the so called arr fan(atic)s !!!

You can check my previous posts (i became active participant recently after a sabbatical taken in 2001) in the tfm archives if you have the time and inclination to verify the correctness of my claims.

I am a brahmin too (a proud one at that - doesn't mean i don't respect others...I just love my customs and practices) ...

If you say Raja's music is not complex, I don't want to argue with you any more...You again seem to make the same un-substantiated statements...Raja has given more complex music than any Indian composer I have known....We guys can speak to any technical stud you can get to argue with us. I'm sure you never listened to the link i provided (it seems, you don't want to arugue objectively - you said arr let you down when He said Raja is great :-) ).

your sampling again seem to be within chennai (150 cds, :-)) )....My distant relative who's in film distribution business gives me data once in a while...While boyz was a hit everywhere, not every arr album sells like hot cakes...I still maintain, when it comes to a place in their heart, most of the people in TN have Raja ahead of arr.

MADDY

4th August 2005, 01:41 PM

good scale...keep it up....dunt leave the forum(fight)...IR fansukku kaatuvom ARR kya cheez hai......

"but we can listen to a IR song in high end playing system as wel as village 'kozhai speaker' Its a balance between both"

no RS sir.......i had played punnagai mannan to my frnd on a very high end system and beleive me it sounded pathetic......my frnd was laughing at the end and told me that he could not make out half of instruments played in it bcos of its poor quality.......i felt it was like watching a cricket match on TV with grains all over it......IR's recording quality is a big zero........

MADDY

4th August 2005, 01:49 PM

"I still maintain, when it comes to a place in their heart, most of the people in TN have Raja ahead of arr."

i completely agree with this...even my findings said so.....when i asked ppl. who was the gr8est MD according to them 53% told it was IR and only a partly 30% told it was ARR........so i dunt think i'll deny my own findings........but wat i feel is that ARR is hard-done here when he has taken tamil/india to west and got so much fame with ppl. like me(living in north) feel proud to call ARR a tamil........

IR fans r closed minded....there's no denying it.......i have never seen a IR fan calling ARR gr8, but we,ARR fans hold IR at such high esteem.......IR fans always think ARR is lesser to IR whereas we never think on those lines.....u can never deny this shankar.....

Scale

4th August 2005, 02:14 PM

Maddy! Excellent avatar! shall try one for myself ARR facing the other side. Wouldnt it be great?!

Let them come up with any anaylsis either in terms of sales, awards, technicall brilliance, achievements, vocals, chorus, instrumental themes. We have facts & figures available to prove them at any point of his career after "Roja"'s muscial revolution.

"
IR fans r closed minded....there's no denying it

Isnt this topic what do u like and hate in MD?

Shankar

4th August 2005, 02:18 PM

>>>>>>
IR fans r closed minded....there's no denying it.......i have never seen a IR fan calling ARR gr8, but we,ARR fans hold IR at such high esteem.......IR fans always think ARR is lesser to IR whereas we never think on those lines.....u can never deny this shankar.....
<<<<<

This sweeping generalization is unacceptable :-)...You can atleast see one in me calling arr a great ;-)....All I'm denying is the argument that "arr is better than Raja" !!...Unless someone proves it to me 'technically', I won't accept the argument...I am also inviting you guys on behalf of 'objective' Raja fans who are ready to counter your arguments 'technically'...Pure handwaving won't help...Life is in details, and lets get into the details of each composers' work, analyze them and then decide who's better.

For one, we had Raja and arr score for the same movie !

Raja for kadalukku mariyAdhai and arr for dholi saja ke rakhna...how about starting an objective argument, giving no space for personal/baseless attacks, checking each song on its merit (such as how does it suit the situation) ??

I'm game...

dinesh2002

4th August 2005, 04:00 PM

For one, we had Raja and arr score for the same movie !

Raja for kadalukku mariyAdhai and arr for dholi saja ke rakhna...how about starting an objective argument, giving no space for personal/baseless attacks, checking each song on its merit (such as how does it suit the situation) ??

I'm game...

be prepare to face defeat! ;) . . .Doli sajakhe rakhna songs r def much much better (please know that DSKR is not a hit like KMariyathai,so def the songs fited the movie rather than appealing the audience,rite Rajasaranam?;)& suited the situation more... take for instance the brother-sis song...

rajasaranam

4th August 2005, 04:57 PM

Scale,

Iam already a member in that group from 2002 with the same avatar 'Rajasaranam' :)

And i havent found many reviews speaking musically except 'awesome' 'great' etc.,

alias

4th August 2005, 07:39 PM

Jacky and alias,

Sure i do accept that Sales figures have always favoured ARR after his entry. But we dont have any Databank for the 80's or late 70's. which were IR's peak period. If at all they had some Then this case of ARR selling more than Britney, madonna etc., will become obsolete....
IR's music is very much movie oriented and he does not believe in giving a complete album to make it a hit. He gives songs for situations which are better watched along the movie. Even the movie 'pagalil oru iravu' had some songs apart from the super hit 'Ilamai enum poongatru' which are unknown for many of us. Sigappu rojakkal had only 2 songs, tik tik had only 3 songs, sathya had 3 songs, guna had 4 songs, which means IR believed that the songs are for movies and there was not a necessity to have 5 songs perse and making it sound great to make a hit album.
While ARR had this standard of 5 songs atleast for all his movies and concentrated more to make all 5 songs a hit.
So the case of complete album doest work out for 2 diff MD's who have different notions on making music.
Pithamagan had Piraye and Adadaaa [ apart from the medley and elangathu] which were songs that enhahced the scene in the movie while they may not sound great listening to alone for many of the people. hence its sales would be definitely low comparitive to KKS/ E20U18.
I accept that There has not been a single Complete album from IR in the recent past according to your perspective or ARR's standard. But thats Ok for us as we view IR as a Film music composer not a POP album composer :) And its a world wide view too that they dont expect a Zimmerman or goldsmith to sell more than MJ, Madonna or britney :?

Now you have come to the point. If the sales figure does not show up for IR, then it is failure of IR that his music is not reaching any more to the public. And his current music is a failure. I remember those time when IR music was going to be released, I use to stand there for him to open the shop and most of the time, they would be ppl. already standing waiting for teh shop to open and buy the new released cassette lik Thalapathy, Uzapalli, Agni Natchitram etc and the reason was his popular music which is no more now. So the point is here, the time for IR is gone , so all u fans of IR should accept. I know there are fans like njv, who has moved on with times but it is fans like rajasarnam who are like Gennathu Thavalai and for them the time has frozen.

And Maddy, what u r saying about the small base of brahmins might be true since most people are still influenced by IR soil rooted songs and carnatic flavour but that was only for short period. Now all people not only in TN but entire India have accepted that ARR music cannot be ignored for now and he is legend who has taken Indian music globally for the first time in the history of IFM.

Cacaphonix

4th August 2005, 07:55 PM

ellaa brahmin-um brahmin-illai ARR-ai
vaazhthum brahmin-ae brahmin

IR-ai pORRum brahmin-um brahmin-aa
IR-ai AeRRum brahmin brah-mean-ae

What next? ADMK has many thevars; JJ is IR hater so all thevars are mean because they would also hate IR. Extrapolate this further to vanniyars, parayars, nadars, chettiyaars, piLLais and all other castes. There will be stunning revealation by one or two from these castes declaring why they are why they are not proud to be that caste people.

We can easily codify and classify each castes based on the aspect whether a few of that caste people like/hate this or that MD. What a splendid idea. Votebankers can take cue from this idea.

MSV is a genius MD because he is unparalleled when it comes to tunes. IR is a genius MD because he is incomparable when it comes to usage of umpteen different ways of usage of WCM idioms and ICM idioms to the lighter Film music.

I need to know what ARR is, to term him genius. Yes, he has revolutionized sound aspects of TFM. But that is secondary aspect when it comes to music. This doesn't mean that ARR is merely a sound engineer (earler I too believed so, more due to my prejudice). Definitely ARR is a great MD. He gave many very nice tunes, and many well orchestrated music. He could have remained a lalla, laala laa MD and still could have become popular with the help of his revolt but he chose not to be so and gave very good quality music (not sound, not hits aspect). He is above the league of SARs, Devas; Imans, HJs, VSs; YSRs. But his path breaking contribution to TFM is not in terms of musical aspects of songs but more in terms of packaging aspects of it.

I also saw some inapproprate comments on subbudu. If you go and tell him that sangamam songs are great carnatic tunes, definitely he will tear them apart. Then you record & publish only his replies and show that as though subbudu has prejudice and make your readers to feel so. I guess this idiocy started when subbudu said "kEdhaaraththukku sEdhaaram" about ennavaLE song which was raved as a great tune in kedhaaram. FYI, subbudu said the same about pOn maalai pozhudhu (kEdhaaraththukku sEdhaaram) what that song became popular. IR had explained the reasons why he (subbudu) should not view it from one angle, about that song. Then rest is history. If my memory serves correctly, sometime back in ROS thread of TFMPage I read that "Sendhoora poovE" cannot be classified under one raaga. A fellow knowledgeable DFer told (I guess it was MS) that he found almost all the 12 notes in that song. But sendhoora poovE is one of the most liked song of subbudu. Not because subbudu liked IR, not even that song is a pure raaga song. Subbudu was quoted saying something like "nowadays i feel shanmugapriya in some kutcheries started wearing pyjaama khurtha. I would rather go and listen to vEl muruganukku motta onnu pOda pOrEn dOi, cinema song for that raaga than sitting in such kutcheries (pardon me if the raaga name is incorrect)". This does not mean that subbudu disliked Hindustani, but it means that when someone claims that his is pure carnatic in shanmugapriya raaga subbudu expects that the grammar(syntax & semantics) is not violated in it even when you are showing your imagination.

One thing is sure, one might like ARR. One might be a fanatic of his music also. It is not wrong. There are many such in IR camp. There were many such in MSV camp. But with limited knowledge one should not pass judgement.

Given this, I too believe and it is a fact that after ARR's advent IR's chances went down. IR is no way as popular as he used to be. Nor his albums are hit as they used to be. ARR gave new dimension to film songs listening. He was seen as the icon of the then building up generation when he arrived.

If one see TFM history - MSV did not single handedly overthrown any previously ruling MDs (KVM was also equally popular during MSV's tenure). But MSV is a genius. IR toppled MSV but still he is also a genius. ARR toppled IR, ARR is a great MD but his revolution is not, as I said earlier, in the musical aspect (song making aspect). Who knows someday there might be someone who will topple ARR who may be of the grade of YSR or even SAR.

Dragun

5th August 2005, 01:28 AM

ARR brought technology into TFM (and IFM in general) by using synthesizers and loops in a unique way as well as better recording quality. But he is not just an electronic MD. Even Deva and the like have all those tools, but ARR knows best how to use them.

He also does interesting things with orchestration as well. Listen to Kulirithu Kulirithu from Taj Mahal. The way the pizzicato strings and flute, for example, are orchestrated is absolutely marvelous. ARR creates soundscapes in his works, by using a variety of instruments and the technology at hand too.

Also, he uses some instruments in a novel fashion. In Urvasi Urvasi from Kaadhalan, the sarangi solo is quite original. Who would have thought to use a sarangi in a pop song like this? But it works.

ARR brought more Hindustani and even Middle Eastern sounds into TFM as well.

MADDY

5th August 2005, 02:03 AM

good post Cacaphonix........but u say ARR hasn't created a revolution, well ARR's entry was the most blistering of entries not only in TFM but tamil film industry as a whole.......he converted the systems to digital which was the first step for globalisation.....watever IR fans mite argue but his 80's and 70's songs r not at all presentable globally simply bcos of sound quality.....(there mite be some musical geniuses like a frenchman who is a gr8 fan of IR, who can see music without the sound quality........)

and reg subbudu, he is clearly a prejudiced man attacking ARR for reason best known to him only........if ARR gives tunes with raaga-shudham then only he will listen.....how will ppl. like me wud listen to pakka carnatic songs???see, everything comes in a package today for better selling.....u buy a mobile phone then u have a camera,FM,calculator,bluetooth and wat not......so carnatic music has to be packaged with raaga-diversions/fusion otherwise it is not listenable for paamarans like me.......(my dad told me that subbudu has ended many ppl.'s career with his deadly reviews but he cud not move a inch in ARR's case......game,set,match - ARRahman 6-0,6-0,6-0 :D )

MADDY

5th August 2005, 02:13 AM

hey i had to take the brahmins name here as they r sadly opnion makers in TN.........Iyeru sonna sariya than irrukkum.......tell me, havent u guys heard this a lot in TN??? newys i apologise if i had hurt anyone's sentiments or provoked anyone sentiments with caste names..........

:oops:

Cacaphonix

5th August 2005, 02:36 AM

but u say ARR hasn't created a revolution, well ARR's entry was the most blistering of entries not only in TFM but tamil film industry as a whole

Did I say so?

if ARR gives tunes with raaga-shudham then only he will listen.....how will ppl. like me wud listen to pakka carnatic songs???

I don't know who is prejudiced here subbudu or you? Subbudu's job is to scrutinize whatever is termed as a carnatic output. If you give an input to him and ask his opinion he would answer based on that period. It is not his fault. It might be your fault (not ARR, but the people who termed ARR's particular song to be a carnatic song) what Subbudu can do about it. Remember the "vEli-la pOra Onaana...." anology.

game, set, match, tournament, hall-of-the-fame ellaamE ARR-aa irundhaa nalla irukkum thaan. naanum virumbuvEn. aana adhu unmayaa illayaannu thaan theriyala.

btw brahmins opinion makers? hmm...a news to me. even if they are why should that be a sad thing? Lets leave the caste stuff here and move ahead with our HCIRFs v/s HCARRFs :)

slperson1

5th August 2005, 07:40 AM

Likes:
ARR - use of technology,sound quality,fusion - he is the best in this department,use of singers,different music with each album
IR - doesn't change with the time gives hi same old pattern (the melodies of his i like)
VS - his melodies and fast paced numbers
YSR - gives out many songs and all are decent,his modern songs, able to mix rock and indian music well, his use of KK
HJ - errrr once inawhile he shines
KR - orchestration
Deva - can give some good melodies once in awhile (thaimadiye from red)

Dislikes:
ARR - long periods between films, not enuff commercial films
IR - sound quality his cds come out as tape quality until very very recently! hasnt come out of the 80s
VS - his attempts at making modern numbers
YSR - doesnt give it his all with every album u can tell which ones are rushed
HJ - ARR clone no style of his own,the way he reuses his own tunes
KR - WHERE ARE YOU!? his selection of projects
Deva - nuthin needs to be said haha

Shankar

5th August 2005, 11:23 AM

>>>>>>>
But with limited knowledge one should not pass judgement.
<<<<<<<

precisely...noboby wants to discuss things technically...Coming up with parameters which are subjective would not prove anything...we'll keep shouting at each other without moving anywhere...Look at the following post (NOM Dinesh)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
be prepare to face defeat! Wink . . .Doli sajakhe rakhna songs r def much much better (please know that DSKR is not a hit like KMariyathai,so def the songs fited the movie rather than appealing the audience,rite Rajasaranam?Wink& suited the situation more... take for instance the brother-sis song...
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

What's technical in this discussion....Some empty threats like "be prepared to face defeat"....Dear Dinesh, I will gracefully accept my defeat if you can argue technically and prove your points...Since arr fans' main point in their argument (though definitely non-technical) is the sales figure, I am forced to compare the sales figures of the albums...Everyone (whose head is in place) knows KM is a clear winner sales wise...IMO, Quality wise too, KM wins hands down.
Now, I invite you for a technical argument.

MADDY

5th August 2005, 12:43 PM

hey shankar, wat technical aspects u need to discuss here abt DSKR and Kadhalakku Mariyadhai????neways ,DSKR sounded better to us than Kadhalakku Mariyadhai and for u it wud have been otherwise.......so with this prejudiced notion we will not be able to accept each other's points......

okk fine, if u still want a comparison on these 2 movies then pls tell me on wat criterias shuld we compare them???? see , we ARR fans r commom men whose basicallly get attracted by the sounds and packaging of the songs.......so, go ahead and list me the criterias..... :D

"I don't know who is prejudiced here subbudu or you? Subbudu's job is to scrutinize whatever is termed as a carnatic output"

i dunt understand and cannot stand carnatic music and there r millions of youngsters like me who r influenced by Bryan adams/Kurt cobain rrather than unnikrishnan/bombay jayshree.......we r the market(sadly, maybe :wink: ) so wat do u xpect ARR to do???he has to give music that we will buy and rave abt.......a reviewer cannot even take this into consideration???? and also he has always criticised ARR for migration of carnatic singers to film music.......y blame ARR only????

Jacky

5th August 2005, 02:16 PM

[tscii:34d18e1740]
>>>>>>>
IMO, Quality wise too, KM wins hands down.

If you compare the situational songs
Keva re keva and Aiyya vidu – either isn't clearly better than the other. IR has composed many songs like this while the Hindi version was killed by Sukwinder. Kailash Kher would've done justice to a good tune but he wasn't around that time. I feel they are on par.
Jula bhahon ko and Aanada kuilin pattu - Hindi version sounded a lot sweeter and the tune was also more catchy.

Taram pum and Oh Baby baby – IR's song was simple so it gets my vote. ARR's version was average by his standards.
Oru pattampuchi – KJY's voice never suited a guy like Vj, I don't find anything special in the tune. Bole sajni wins it hands down – just listen to the Hindustani alaap and songs variations.
Kissa hum likenge and Thalata varuvala – Tie. Both were awesome!
I don't think KM was better than DSKR, I quite liked DSKR for 3 songs I mentioned while in KM only Thalatta varuvala is in my playlist.
[/tscii:34d18e1740]

thumburu

5th August 2005, 02:42 PM

It hurts to see an expert carnatic music critic like subbudu being bashed mindlesly by few ARR fanatics (who by their own admission have no inkling about carnatic music)just because he criticized one of his songs.Even Arr would cringe to see the disrespect showered on the doyen.
Subbudu's comment was not a statement, but a curt
reply to an idiotic interviewer who did not do his homework properly and foolishly gushed about Kedharam usage in "ennavaLe".
Kupps, "vel muruganukku"is in Mohanam and a pure one at that. I doubt if he would have commented on "Pon malai pozhudhu " song as it faithfully adheres to kedharam , leaving the wcm laced interludes apart.

dinesh2002

5th August 2005, 04:10 PM

ok i agree Ennai thalatha varuvala is 1 of the greatest song that year,but what else in the mvie songs that sounded as good as that,simple situation, my aunty a great fan of IR,and she never praises ARR (the normal thing i gues :wink: ),when during KM released,she bought the cassette,and listened only to that Ennai thalatha varuvala song,and others ,nope...she keeps on rewinding & i couldnt resists asking y..she said " mathathu avala nallale,ithu than best pa" and i let her listen to DSKR songs,after around 1998,i told her its the same movie of KM,but in hindi (not mentioning the MD :wink: )she said " ellam paatu supera iruke paa,i didint know hindi people can compose so great" and eventually she stole that cassette from me :P:P:P . . she was in shock when its by ARR,but she couldnt resists enjoying the songs...there was more in joy in her when all the songs came in tamil as Jodi,that she could enjoy the songs in our language,and def Jodi sounded 10000X better!

so what more i need, and IR fan, without knowing the md for the hindi movie is by ARR, praised it ,enjoyed it, & not to forget stole it :P:P..

Shankar

5th August 2005, 04:15 PM

>>>>
Kissa hum likenge and Thalata varuvala
<<<<

A TIE ?!?!?!?!?! Gaaawd...I don't want to argue anymore...Sorry, folks, our arguments would never end :-)

maddy,
>>>>>>>>>
hey shankar, wat technical aspects u need to discuss here abt DSKR and Kadhalakku Mariyadhai????
<<<<<<<<<

"Sounding" good is not technical...by technical, i mean handling of Ragas, interesting interludes...if there's a shift from one raga to another, how has the MD handled it, are there any interesting deviation from the way you expect the song to proceed...I can give inputs only from the score viewpoint (as I am not quite familiar with Carnatic classical, and i cannot identify only very few ragas)...I am a student of WC, and i can only discuss the technical aspects of the usage of instruments (how was the chord in the BG when the main song is being played...In the first interludes there was an interesting counter point between time x & y and such things)

Shankar

5th August 2005, 04:19 PM

Jacky

5th August 2005, 04:30 PM

">>>>
Kissa hum likenge and Thalata varuvala
<<<<

A TIE ?!?!?!?!?! Gaaawd...I don't want to argue anymore...Sorry, folks, our arguments would never end Smile "

I must not have posted when you said KM was overall a better album than DSKR.
Probably you should find some other forum where ppl will praise IR no matter How bad/good the songs sound. After all the feel is unimportant :rotfl:

Cinefan

5th August 2005, 04:32 PM

Shankar, :lol: that was good .

MADDY

5th August 2005, 04:42 PM

shankar, u have shown ur true colors.....u just dunt want to accept any ARR song is better than a IR song.......so there is no need for me to speak to a person like u.......

i think jacky hit the nail on the head, there is no need for us to reply as u r never gonna listen.......bye shanki.......

MADDY

5th August 2005, 04:44 PM

mr.thumburu, if u feel bad that i bashed subbudu then isn't it fair enuf that i feel bad when subbudu bashes ARR????adha yen kanna yosikka maatengiringa?

Shankar

5th August 2005, 05:32 PM

>>>>>>>
Probably you should find some other forum where ppl will praise IR no matter How bad/good the songs sound. After all the feel is unimportant
<<<<<<<

This feel, sounding this way sounding that way are all subjective...I am a big supporter of Raja, no doubt, but I don't want to argue with people who claim "How bad/good the songs sound" - I had chosen an album which was a hit both commercially, and was praised by the reviewers...and I didn't want to discuss "rajasthan" or "thodarum" which according to me are lousy albums by Raja...I would rather call *you* biased bcos, you said an album like DSKR is better than KM :-)

Shankar

5th August 2005, 05:39 PM

>>>>>>
shankar, u have shown ur true colors.....u just dunt want to accept any ARR song is better than a IR song
<<<<<<<

"You, ARR fans" (thanks for that phrase, maddy :-) ) talk only about commercial success (which acc to you are the only parameter, "you arr fans" use to judge an album) of an album, and if it sells a 100 more, the album is better...Even in that way, KM was better than DSKR...

I knew your true colors when you made a comment like - "the judges in sapthaswarangaL are biased to Raja" and Indiaglitz is a Raja chamcha (now the moment they say arr is the king with some chennai-only sales figure of ah..aah , you will jump up saying indiaglitz is the most unbiased site !!

Jacky

5th August 2005, 05:47 PM

I gave my explanations for why i liked the hindi one better that too as an album overall. Just go back and see you've been calling for an objective debate, and you clain you're into analyzing ragas, orchestration etc yet you haven't said anything Bole sajni or Jula bahonn ko where classical interludes are evident. You just keep harping on your point (KM is better than DSKR) without much substanstiation!
I don't think I'm as biased as you :rotfl:

Music4Ever

5th August 2005, 05:52 PM

"the judges in sapthaswarangaL are biased to Raja" and Indiaglitz is a Raja chamcha (now the moment they say arr is the king with some chennai-only sales figure of ah..aah (did SJS name it while having an orgasm ?, i wonder) , you will jump up saying indiaglitz is the most unbiased site !!

On the other hand, it is clearly obvious to any objective observer that the conductor of the SapthswarangaL (Ranganathan or whoever) drools ceaselessly at the mention of a song by IR. Many shitty songs of the late eighties get immediate kudos from this fellow.

If DSKR songs are the same as Jodi then they should be good. Kadhalukku Mariyadhai songs are also good.

MADDY

5th August 2005, 06:41 PM

"did SJS name it while having an orgasm ?, i wonder"

dunt lose ur self-respect shankar........

hey hey hey wats ur problem buddy........i'm saying that ARR is not lesser to IR and u r sayin that IR is not lesser to ARR---which means we both r saying that they shuld not be compared.........we r after all saying the same point........come on man :D cheer up.......

"On the other hand, it is clearly obvious to any objective observer that the conductor of the SapthswarangaL (Ranganathan or whoever) drools ceaselessly at the mention of a song by IR. Many shitty songs of the late eighties get immediate kudos from this fellow. "

see shankar, ppl. have felt it...........so dunt think it is just me........condemning that man is not condemning IR....pls undestand it........

dinesh2002

5th August 2005, 07:33 PM

dinesh2002

5th August 2005, 07:46 PM

yes music4ever,DSKR is Jodi's songs...the Vannapoongave is the sis-bro song...so u should know why i said that song stands the best,y,even the album...

Shankar baba,if ARR thinks comercial album is so imp,he wouldnt be doing movies like Andhimanthirai (1996),Fire (1996),Kisna(please realise that he only did 2 songs and he did the BGM for the movie,that shows he dun accept offers for comercial),Bose,Mangal Pandey,1947 earth,Kannathil Mutamittal,Lagaan,Tlobs,Meenaxi,Tehzeeb! so please,get ur facts right!!!

and about Ah aah...man...seriously..i didint know ur thoughts r very shallow...yuckz!

Cacaphonix

5th August 2005, 08:01 PM

Mythila :wink:

Thanks for the clarification on the raaga of vEl muruganukku song.
Regarding the kEdharaththukku sEdhaaram part about pon maalai pozhudhu I rememeber reading the comment of Subbudu and IR's reply in one of the magazines. Infact both comments were scanned and posted in one of the threads of old TFMPage. Perhaps RR (or) * (prabhu) could help us digging that thread out.

I guess subbudu's then remark was not on the pon maalai pozhudhu song's raaga adherence per se. Perhaps he might thought about the mixture of WCM like interludes to be inappropriate. IR would have explained him about the fusion part and subbudu would have appreciated it based on the fact that the song as such did not have any slippages to the raaga and hence he would have accepted the pon maalai pozhudhu song.

so carnatic music has to be packaged with raaga-diversions/fusion otherwise it is not listenable for paamarans like me.......

Carnatic-la fusion-nna oru carnatic song-la raaga ththa keduththu (anniya swarangaLaa pOttu thaakki) fusion paNNi adha fusion in carnatic-innu sollaradhu kidayaadhu. Classical music like carnatic is and ought to be grammar strict. A fusion attempt should never debase this fundamental principle of it.

To the best of my knowledge none of ARR's song qualifies for a review by subbudu based on carnatic idiom (this is not to say that ARR's songs have no merit, its only that ARR's songs don't fall under that criteria thats all). There may be some songs of ARR to be in carnatic that I have not heard of. May be some one, if want, can ask subbudu's review on those songs. But if one picks a wrong song

i dunt understand and cannot stand carnatic music and there r millions of youngsters like me who r influenced by Bryan adams/Kurt cobain rrather than unnikrishnan/bombay jayshree.......we r the market(sadly, maybe Wink ) so wat do u xpect ARR to do???he has to give music that we will buy and rave abt.......a reviewer cannot even take this into consideration??

Now I clearly understand who is prejudiced. btw there is nothing wrong in ARR giving popular music. The request is for some half-baked not to claim any of those songs to be set in carnatic and tries to get review from subbudu and sensationalise the issue based on subbudu's review. ARR did not even care to answer subbudu's "kEdharaththukku sEdhaaram" comment as he very well knows that his song is merely a popular song and not one that can be claimed to be a carnatic based song. IR did it, in his turn, because his case was different. In both cases IR and ARR are not not idiots and so is subbudu.

also he has always criticised ARR for migration of carnatic singers to film music..

Subbudu's remark was about unnikrishnan's case. Subbudu was concerned that Unni, being a very good carnatic singer, was losing his grip in his kutcheries and it was because subbudu felt the reason being unni singing in film songs. But doesn't subbudu know that a lot of carnatic singers were earlier singing in films? From GNB to BMK to KJY in male and from MSS to MLV in female were popular in film music. It may be that unni's voice/singing capability might have got eroded because he chose film music also, whereas it didn't happen in the case of, say, KJY. So subbudu was not worried about KJY.

my dad told me that subbudu has ended many ppl.'s career with his deadly reviews

I request people to count me as one of those whose life was ruined by Subbudu even before I joined to sing in carnatic kutchery. What a wretched fellow subbudu is, why can't a carnatic ignorant like me sing a song in carnatic sabha and claim that to be in "pure carnatic raaga". People like subbudu should be hanged till death for ruining my career..nay..life in carnatic world.

alias

5th August 2005, 08:15 PM

>>>>>>
my aunty a great fan of IR,and she never praises ARR (the normal thing i gues Wink )
<<<<<<<
Yeah...My aunty's ammanji's son is 12 year old, and is an arr devotee...and gave him the "Rajasthan" CD (one of the worst by Raja), and he listened to it and said these songs are zillion times better than Roja/thirudA thirudA (and as you did, i too didn't mention it was Raja)..and when I said the MD was Raja, he decided not to listen to arr any more and ran to Raja's house in chennai and took deekshai....pOdhumA, enakkum burudA vuda theriyum :-)

I thought nowadays the kids are not so stupid to listen crapest songs like Rajasthan when they have Thiruda Thiruda or Roja.

And also even if it was for technical reasons, ARR is way way ahead of IR. Name one movie of IR which went beyond south (please do not take songs which are copied from him and composed in north. that proves IR could not compose his own song in other flavour). ARR is the first bring middle eastern, spanish, pure western flavour mixing with Indian raagas which IR could not do in his span of 15 years. I agree he is king of folk song and he composed good carnatic. But that was his territory and he could not move beyond that. That shows his limitation and ARR is still researching and bringing new sounds. Yes stupid ppl. will say he is copying but as they say "Kuzhudhaiku theriyuma karpoora vasanai" :-)

What gaawdd man.. :evil: . If you take KM, only one song was hit but in DSR all songs are super hit that itself shows how ARR can take over IR in a single album. As rajasarnam said, IR gives one hit in an album but ARR gives all hits in one album.

arun

5th August 2005, 11:09 PM

Cacaphonix

5th August 2005, 11:15 PM

nice to see history repeating itself.

whatever were discussed, disserted, ground three years ago, to the best of my knowledge, is being done once again, amazingly with same set of words.

enjoy.

MADDY

6th August 2005, 02:20 AM

Arun, praising IR is not the only intelligent thing........okk......by not penetrating in the north means his music doesnt have a global appeal........he loses to ARR in this aspect.......now dunt say that north indians r dumb...they have recognised ppl. like SDB/Shankar-jaikishen/O.P.Nayyar...so they too have gud taste........

cacaphonix, subbudu had this grudge with ARR...he had made fun of his composing style as well which were totally unneccesary.......he praises HJ, who has a similar style of composing, which means he hates ARR only.....and moreover subbudu is a public figure so he will come under scanner by ppl........just bcos he worships IR will not save him........ppl. will condemn his STUPID OBSERVATIONS......

arun

6th August 2005, 05:08 AM

Maddy, I am not not saying that praising IR is an intelligent thing to do. I am just saying its not intelligent to criticize IR for the fact that his works are not accepted in the North. No mortal man can compose music that appeals to all people. This talk of global appeal is all bunkum. This is a very poor parameter to judge someone's ability. As I said earlier in my post, works of classical composers like Bach, Tchaikovsky.. have very little appeal beyond a small group of people who actually follow classical music.

For that matter the works of composers like RD,SD Burman, Naushad never really appealed to the Tamil masses the way they appealed to people from most other states. So are they any inferior for this?

If global appeal is a scale you use to judge musical ability then you would be forced to accept pathetic musically challenged people/groups like Britney Spears/Beatles as the greatest composers/groups. Not only that, by this logic Britney Spears is a greater musical figure( Pun unintended :-) ) than Bach because Bach loses in this aspect.

MADDY

6th August 2005, 09:35 AM

arun, then global appeal is not at all a achievement by ARR isn't it????neways IR is a phenom with or without global appeal.........we all know it.... :D

but global reach,improved sound quality,pop flavor in tamil music, mastering north indian folk music, innovative loops/samples r all achievements by ARR......if IR fans go on denying each and every point here then how wud ARR fans keep quiet.......ARR fans r supposed to be "yelasunga" :wink: ,its obvious that ppl. wud react.....

look at my signature guys, ARR fans have huge respect for IR but sadly it is not vice-versa.........i think it is high time that IR fans respect ARR for wat he is and stop finding faults with him which has been done for the past 13 yrs.......

Shankar

6th August 2005, 04:26 PM

oru buruda vuttA, adhai refute paNNa innoru buruda vuttEn....adhai pOi seriousa discuss paNra makkaLa enna solla :-))

Scale

6th August 2005, 10:11 PM

Scale,

Iam already a member in that group from 2002 with the same avatar 'Rajasaranam' :)

And i havent found many reviews speaking musically except 'awesome' 'great' etc.,

RS! To my surprise! I have never seen a single post from you on ARRYG. Reg many reviews musically (current albums), I do visit IR threads/Groups and I need to fold my pants (like boys harini) above my knee while passing the thread.

Scale

6th August 2005, 10:52 PM

bayanghara kola kutthu thaan pola irukku. Rendu naalu illana naaradichidureengha....

Shankar! neengha adhi bayanghara medhavi, buruda master, isai gnani or isai sishyan eppadi vena vachikoongha........... paaratukkal

First of all I dont understand how can u compare those two albums on situational basis. My points are below with a limited knowledge (absolutely No musical knowledge).

a) Is the album worked/released at the same time like dilse or yuva (just two diff versions)?
b) Are the directors/cast were same in both hindi and tamil?.
c) Dont u find the language difference? (tho the script is same, On MD's point, IR can compose more easily in tamil than ARR in hindi & just imagine the pressure at what ARR had worked). He has completely given all different songs not like Anu Malik (Gentleman, Viraasat) or any other mediocre MD's.
d) Situational songs (Who has more option to change the situation, while building the script Fazil/IR or Priyadarshan/ARR?)
e) Isnt the movie bombed in hindi!. How can you compare it with the tamil blockbuster since being the original?.
f) How many of them know ARR/PD/AK in hindi at that time than IR/Fazil/Vijay in tamil?

Considering all the above, the one and only thing we can compare is the sales,mass appeal and not only on technical aspects. I am sure many of the non-speaking hindi ppl in chennai & all over india have DSKR in their collection yet than KM in tamil spking ppls collection. I still believe ARR can score more points in boli sajni & kissa hum. You havent produced any one techinal aspects on raaga yet for a layman like me......

How are you going to explain a layman which album is better on technical terms?

Kudos to Jacky who has perfectly hit the nail for even a common listenere & you neither want to give a thought nor admit it which proves again and again... : IR Fans are Incorrigible and the 100% sure the reason being origin, community, prejudiced to their personal taste & few IR's evergreen songs (in 1 GB of HD 5MB of ROM files).

Just wanna ask 1 more thing, Are you ppl (IR Fans) sleeping peacefully after 1992 Roja album? (pavam ARR, manasukkulla yenna yenna thittureengalo).

Whereas that man simply ignores everything and concentrates on his projects...

arun

7th August 2005, 01:32 AM

Scale,

There are nut cases in both the camps. I think you are being unfair in singling out IR fans. I have met some ARR fans who are incorrigible as well; the kind of folks wo would go on forever with statements like - ARR caused IR's downfall, AR is superior to IR because he is popular in North India, blah blah..

And by the way I am just curious about this - what does one's community/origin got to do with being an IR fan?

MADDY

7th August 2005, 08:13 AM

arun, u havent answered my questions yet.....pls read my post.... :D

arun

7th August 2005, 08:50 AM

Maddy, I missed your post! Yes, ARR is brilliant enough to compose music that appeals to N.Indians and to some extent to people outside of India. For a man raised in Chennai, its commendable that he could compose such brilliant music for films like Taal/Rangeela/Lagaan, that is so different from south Indian film music. And as you observed he is the first Indian composer to elevate the technical aspects of film music to international standards.

As for your sweeping statement that IR fans never respect ARR - I would not agree on this. I am a huge IR fan. But I also have a very healthy respect for ARR.

MADDY

7th August 2005, 10:21 AM

gr8 arun......even if ARR gets a third place in history of TFM(behind IR & MSV) then it wud be a token of his acceptance from TN public... :D

Scale

7th August 2005, 10:27 AM

Scale,
There are nut cases in both the camps. I think you are being unfair in singling out IR fans.

arun! I am talking about the majority on either camp. Mostly thalai's. It is not the same in ARR YG/fforums.

I have met some ARR fans who are incorrigible as well; the kind of folks wo would go on forever with statements like - ARR caused IR's downfall, AR is superior to IR because he is popular in North India, blah blah.

We ARR Fans still listens to HJ,VS,YSR. There are mere & numerous evidences from the latters still copying/re-hashing from earlier ( ARR/IR) tunes, (ARR) beats, pattern etc.

Whereas ARR has brought a new trend (entirely diff from Raja) and still invading in to every form of music (rec. meenaxi, Bose,swades & rising). In this 13 years none of the IR fans can say that he has given a similar song like IR. ARR has been domintating the whole industry anonymously (both Tamil & Hindi). What we have been explaining/requesting IR Fans is not to pull/compare/bash ARR(specifically) for worshipping on IR's greatness

And by the way I am just curious about this - what does one's community/origin got to do with being an IR fan?

Its my personal judgement in 10 years and Its tractable you skip that and avoid discussing it in this public forum.
Thanks a lot!

alias

8th August 2005, 08:31 PM

alias,

"IR gives one hit in an album". Can you substantiate this statement please? I can list out scores of albums by IR in which all the songs were hits.

"Name one movie which went beyond south". So according to you according to someone is great only if he is accepted by North Indians? Can you please explain me this wonderful logic? Going by your logic Bach, Dvorak, Tchaikovsky...are all poor composers. They never appealed to people beyond pockets of Europe/N. America. Well certainly not to North Indians.

Forums are meant to be a place for intelligent discussions please...

How many albums of IR had all the songs hit? Tell me in his albums of 1000? Probabaly very few and we can probably name it easily. That is not an achievement at all. Music is Global and it has to reach everyone. If only south listens to IR then there is something missing in IR music.

Who said Bach, Dvorak music never reached beyond the border of America and Europe. I know IR get lot of inspiration from Bach and so in Asia which clearly shows how music has inspired a person in remote town of South India.

Yes if it is for intelligent people then why are u here? :lol:

arun

8th August 2005, 09:27 PM

Thanks Maddy and Scale. Alias, I said this place is for intelligent discussions( not intelligent people ). Let us not degrade this with
ad hominem arguments.

rajasaranam

8th August 2005, 10:35 PM

app_engine

8th August 2005, 11:26 PM

"but i can think of atleast 300-400 albums in which all songs were blockbuster hits"

...even if not 300 or above, we can easily name 4-5 times the number of 100% hit albums of ANY of current MDs (& may be the past MDs with the exception of MSV-KVM, where it may just be double the number)

app_engine

8th August 2005, 11:33 PM

"global appeal" - a very interesting term...

Some thoughts :

1. Tiruppur banian products can claim to have a 'global appeal' (they are being exported / sold everywhere), they are mfd in Tiruppur, with some design / creativity etc. from the locals, but are they `Indian' products that have global appeal (for e.g. Saree?)

2. Indian software programming talents seem to have `global appeal' too...but what'll happen if all the source code is written in Tamil (say TSCII, just for hypothesis)? How much global appeal it will have?

alias

8th August 2005, 11:34 PM

alias - scale,
i did not make it final statement as to the hits of IR. Its generally 1 or 2 songs only becoming hits but i can think of atleast 300-400 albums in which all songs were blockbuster hits. I was generalizing on how IR compose for the situation expalined by the Director, not having in mind the aspect of whether it will be a hit or not.

As far as the discussion on Global appeal by ARR--- yeah are you people serious about it?? my take is he is popular only among the Indian Diaspora, all around the globe not among other ethnic communities while IR too have a great popularity among the south Indian Diaspora all around the globe. So If you say ARR has global appeal the same standards can be applied to IR also.
dont think in terms of ALW,vanessa mae or a laslo Kovacs, john scott, massimo simmoni etc., they are just 1 or 2 persons getting impressed by ARR/IR that doesnt mean that ARR-IR have global appeal .

Rajasarnam, you must be defintely kidding. We did not ask how many albums u liked, we are asking how many albums are there where all the songs are hit like hit :) and got appreciated by the public... 300-400...dude, please be practical. just bc u like IR does not mean all his 300-400 albums are have all songs hit.

And arun, if there are intelligent people only then there will be intelligent discussion and thats why I asked why u r there? Not meant to offend you.

Shankar

9th August 2005, 09:46 AM

alias,
Rajasaranam isn't kidding...From 77 - 88, 90% of the movies Raja scored were (musically) hits !

vijayr

9th August 2005, 10:13 AM

"Rajasaranam isn't kidding...From 77 - 88, 90% of the movies Raja scored were (musically) hits !"

Now you must be kidding.Check out 1987, we have already gone over that in another thread
http://www.raajangahm.com/ric/film/FL-1987.html

I can spot atleast 15 duds straightaway. Amongst the rest only 5 or so albums can be termed "hits". Same with 1984,86 and 88.
Many albums had just 1 or 2 good(or popular) songs at the most.

Scale

9th August 2005, 10:56 AM

Thanks Vijayr! Atleast ppl like you are here to enlight us pre 1992 IR hits (Paambin kaal paambariyum).

Scale

9th August 2005, 11:00 AM

Alias! henceforth if u need any list of IR hits at any period just google & evaluate yourself instead of asking (HC)IR fans. Earlier we had a similar occassion :rotfl: when they claimed IR gave more hits than ARR post 1992 :lol: . Hope u remember!

Now buruda master will come to refute the (buruda) post of Vijayr. :lol:

Scale

9th August 2005, 11:06 AM

Shankar

9th August 2005, 12:15 PM

Shankar

9th August 2005, 02:07 PM

scale,
in any case I am not like you - handwaving without any proof...

Scale

9th August 2005, 02:58 PM

Shankar! IR threadla pressure yeriduchinnu nenaikkiren. Payamburuthureenghala. :notworthy:

I was really awestrucked by the proof you have given on the following

1) DSKR Vs KM (Technical aspects, 1 nna kooda kaanum)
2) 77-88 hits (90% - 100/100 unmai, unmayai thavira veru yedhuvum illai)

Keep up the good work and let me keep handwaving.... :notworthy:

rajasaranam

9th August 2005, 03:24 PM

Shankar

9th August 2005, 03:37 PM

Shankar

9th August 2005, 03:43 PM

Scale

9th August 2005, 06:49 PM

Scale

9th August 2005, 07:08 PM

scale,
and in case you didn't notice, I have posted my data for the year 77...I am yet to check 81/82 which I think had more than 30 movies (each year) by Raja...Will take you on once I'm back to work.

shankar! You can get back to work,cafe,home anywhere and prove me anytime that IR has given 90% hits rite from 1977-1988 (all songs).

alias

9th August 2005, 07:15 PM

1978 - 25 movies were released and the good ones - buvana oru ?, avaL appadithAn, chittu kuruvi, iLamai oonjalAdukiradhu, KVG, KizhakkE pOgum rail, muLLum malarum, Priya, sigappu rOjakkaL, sattam en kayyil, idhu eppadi irukku,
achchANi, thyagam .

6 of them didn't have any songs. So, out of the 19, three were non tamil movies,so, I have no idea how the songs were, assuming they are duds, we have 13 good ones out of 16/17

Shankar dude, First of all from your post, I can prove that IR did not have that many hits. Name the songs of these movies which had all songs hit. chittu kuruvi, KVG (I dont know what movie is this? looks like another buruda from Shankar), sattam en kayyil ,idhu eppadi irukku,achchANi, thyagam (name all the songs of these movie which were hit). Nobody would have heard achchani, thyagam, KVG. Shankar, here is the song for you.

POI SOLLA ENDHA SHANKARKU THERIYADHU
THERINDHA VERUM BURADA THAN :-) (from your IR son YSR song)

Jacky

9th August 2005, 07:51 PM

http://music.indya.com/discographies/ind/ilayaraja.html

I think this is a random list of IR's albums till 2000. Even in this list i find duds like Vietnam Colony, Poovarasan etc.
100% albums by IR is far less than 300 or 400. 50% albums - 2-3 good songs will show better numbers for IR...say albums like Veera, Devadhai etc.

rajasaranam

10th August 2005, 12:44 AM

Scale

10th August 2005, 10:08 AM

alias - scale,
So If you say ARR has global appeal the same standards can be applied to IR also.
dont think in terms of ALW,vanessa mae or a laslo Kovacs, john scott, massimo simmoni etc., they are just 1 or 2 persons getting impressed by ARR/IR that doesnt mean that ARR-IR have global appeal .
.

RS! Do you want me to prove that ARR has got the global appeal on his Ist movie(Roja) itself?

yes prove!

http://www.time.com/time/2005/100movies/0,23220,soundtracks,00.html :lol: :rotfl: :lol: :rotfl: :lol:
Thanks for the fun you provided :lol:

RS! I do expect it & nothing surprises me. For you ppl, such international acclaim is always fun if somebody else got it other than IR. Can you elaborate whats wrong in that? I do have one more proof immediately after the release of Roja which I kept to post it later on yr response. Shall book in advanced some more emoticons of YM,MSNM etc.... which will be more useful for you to that post.

thumburu

10th August 2005, 11:53 AM

" Name the songs of these movies which had all songs hit. chittu kuruvi, KVG (I dont know what movie is this? looks like another buruda from Shankar), sattam en kayyil ,idhu eppadi irukku,achchANi, thyagam (name all the songs of these movie which were hit). Nobody would have heard achchani, thyagam, KVG. " - alias, this is just your assumption. I can state the hits in these films.
1. chittu kuruvi - this is remembered only for music and it had super hits like "en kanmani un kaadhali", "adadada maamara kiLiye", "unnai nambi nethiyile" , "ponnula ponnula"
2. KVG - Kaatril Varum Geetham perhaps. Has evergreen hits like "kanden engum poomagaL, "oru vaanavil pole" , "chithira sevvaanam". Nobody remembers the actors or the film itself. But I can vouch for these song's freshness even today
3.achchANi - had 2 good songs which regularly featured in radios "maadha un kovilil" and "thaalaattu piLLai undu thaalaattu" (SPB/PS duet)
4. thyagam - Not only the film, even he songs were big hit those days. "Then mallipoove" , "vasantha kaala kolangal" and "Nallavarkellaam" were radio regulars.
It is better you guys verify with those who were around that period and then make a sensible observation instead of just throwing up a knee jerk reaction

app_engine

10th August 2005, 05:12 PM

KVG - kAtRinilE varum geetham:-)

alias

10th August 2005, 07:39 PM

Yes scale, if BBC says Rakamma song is on the top of the list then IR fans want to have international acclaim but if ARR goes global then all these nonsense talk of global and giving examples of musician who are not popular beyond Europe and america crap. dudes...accept it.

And from what Thumburu has listed, it looks some songs in the album are unknown to ppl. So all the false claims of IR albums have hit songs is proven false.

Take the example of Annakili (IR first album). Except the title song which other songs are hit. But it is not with Roja... Every song is gem and trendsetter. That is power of ARR.

ARR IS AN OCEAN AND OTHERS ARE A DROP

rajasaranam

10th August 2005, 07:41 PM

RS! I do expect it & nothing surprises me. For you ppl, such international acclaim is always fun if somebody else got it other than IR. Can you elaborate whats wrong in that? I do have one more proof immediately after the release of Roja which I kept to post it later on yr response. Shall book in advanced some more emoticons of YM,MSNM etc.... which will be more useful for you to that post.

Even If IR gets such an acclaim i would not go far as you saying that He has got global acclaim. Then IR composing for RPHO shall be considered as he got a global acclaim. but sadly that is not the case.

Global acclaim means for me such as what 'Beethoven' has, irrespective of country, creed, ethnicity all people who knows about WCM or atleast music in that case will have great regards for Beethoven. right from Africa to Australia, from Chile to Japan- that is what global acclaim means for me. Our ARR has not yet reached so far except reaching to the mass of Punjabis at london and tamilians all over the globe. Read my post careuflly before you jump into conclusions.
for exmaple even Michael jackson had global appeal during his peak period - Americans to vadugapattians - all knew him and revered him as the king of POP and Dance. Is that the kind of Global appeal you say that ARR has got . Urrrrgh...... can you be more elaborate on enlightening me on how many Brazilians or greeks or Italians or southAfricans or Newzelandeans enjoy ARR's mujik.
Advanced thanks for you to reserve me some Emoticons, but the emoticons from Forumhub will be more than sufficiant for my purpose :twisted:

app_engine

10th August 2005, 08:16 PM

"Take the example of Annakili (IR first album). Except the title song which other songs are hit."

rajasaranam, shankar, kr :

Can't you see the knowledge / awareness level of people who you are discussing / trying to reason with?

If you are just having fun, passing time etc....it's probably OK (i.e. for you guys, definitely not OK for me even that way)...but serious discussion? You people obviously know there are better things to do in life:-)

alias

10th August 2005, 08:36 PM

App_Engine, if you cannot answer, then shut your back and leave. Dont act as if you are a Philosopher. If you have the guts to prove it then talk else just accept it.

How many people in this TFM know all other songs of Annakili other than the title song? Please tell me.

alias

10th August 2005, 08:38 PM

Rajasarnam what u r talking about Global is a global like how Coke, Pepsi and Michael Jackson has reached and that very few people on this earth would have reached. What we are talking is people who are aware of indian music are aware of ARR. It has been proved since Zubin Mehta, ARR is only MD to reach globally. So dude, get the meaning straight :-)

Scale

10th August 2005, 09:09 PM

Alias! Tho I saw RS post, I stopped replying when RS started comparing to Beethoven & MJ (global appeal - americans to vadugapattians) to ARR (thiruppi pottu vanginar ARR, vadugapattians - americans), a potential composer who is still composing for film music.

alias

11th August 2005, 12:09 AM

Here is to prove Roja is far far better than Annakili.

Annakili had 5 songs with title song getting repeated twice.

1. Annakili Title - SJANAKI - No words excellent song and it was craze all over TN (please note.not even outside TN).
2. Adi Rakiyee - Janaki - good not sensational
3. Sonthamillai - Susheela - Very poor.
4. Annakili Title - TMS - As the original
5. Maachane Pathelaga - Janaki - very Good.

Now lets compare Roja

1. Rukumani - sensational.. This songs had so much craze all over India with Baba Sehgal voice in Hindi and in Tamil, I remember in Devi paradise the people were going crazy.
2. Chinna Chinna - Do I have to say anything for the song which changed the face of IFM.
3. Kadhal Rojave - par Excellent. One of the best sad romantic song ever produced in IFM.
4. Pudhu Vellai Mazhai - Excellent. Look at the tune and composition of this song. Name any song in this catagory which matches its calibre.
5. Thamiza Thamiza - National Anthem for Tamilians across the world.

Now comparing them and reading the below article about IR which actually praises IR, it says kavikul in 1977 established his position and only one song from Annakili (1976) that made IR hit.

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/mag/2002/01/06/stories/2002010600150500.htm

So IR dudes, ARR is way beyond compare and if you guys have guts prove it wrong. ARR became a sensational from album 1 and all his songs in Roja are beyond comparision to IR Annakili where only one song is big hit.

app_engine

11th August 2005, 12:31 AM

One last post in this thread:

"Ilayaraja came on the scene 45 years after film music had first appeared. When he entered Tamil films in the mid 1970s, there was stagnation, in film music and in the type of films that were being made. Ilayaraja's innovative creations came as a whiff of fresh air. The song that made him famous in his debut film "Annakili" (1976) "Annakili Unnai Theduthu" (Annam is looking out for you) was authentically folk and soon was playing throughout Tamil Nadu. The film "Kavikuyil" (1977) stabilised his position in the film world. "

Quoted from the above Hindu article...where does it say "only one song from Annakili" was a hit?

People seem to have problem, not just in being poorly informed, but even in grasping what information is available on print:-(

Precisely why I said earlier, that, it's pointless to take part in such discussions...

(Those interested in annakkiLi history, check http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?t=425)

rajasaranam

11th August 2005, 12:45 AM

alias,

You may remember people going crazy over 'Rukumani' while we remember people coming from all over TN to see the face of Raja on the Silver jubilee function of 'Annakili'
All the songs from 'Annakili' were super duper hits all over TN and only ignorant fools like you would say only one song was sensational from that movie

rajasaranam

11th August 2005, 12:52 AM

rajasaranam, shankar, kr :

Can't you see the knowledge / awareness level of people who you are discussing / trying to reason with?

If you are just having fun, passing time etc....it's probably OK (i.e. for you guys, definitely not OK for me even that way)...but serious discussion? You people obviously know there are better things to do in life:-)

24 hrs free net connection vachitu vera ennathan panna mudiyum :lol: obviously its fun :twisted:

rajasaranam

11th August 2005, 01:00 AM

alias iam reading your post on comparing Annakili and Roja - Vaayaala sirikkala naan :lol: :rotfl: :lol: :rotfl: :lol:
Thanks for making my day this fun filled :thumbsup:

alias

11th August 2005, 02:33 AM

Rajasarnam, If you want to escape by calling it fun, thats fine with me.. paavum what will u do. Roja is incomparable with album like Annakili. RS, only people from TN was coming to see IR but the entire nation woke up to see this great MD ARR.

"Ilayaraja came on the scene 45 years after film music had first appeared. When he entered Tamil films in the mid 1970s, there was stagnation, in film music and in the type of films that were being made. Ilayaraja's innovative creations came as a whiff of fresh air. The song that made him famous in his debut film "Annakili" (1976) "Annakili Unnai Theduthu" (Annam is looking out for you) was authentically folk and soon was playing throughout Tamil Nadu. The film "Kavikuyil" (1977) stabilised his position in the film world."

app_engine, it says The song that made him famous in his debut film.... "Annakili Unnai Theduthu".... and soon was playing throughtout TN". If it would said "The Annakili movies songs were playing throughout TN", then it is album of annakili that made IR famous, but i do not see anywhere that kind of statement. You think you know everything but it is you who could not identify the phrase no me :-)

Sorry bro... there is no wrong in accepting once ignorance.

kingvj

11th August 2005, 02:44 AM

I am really sorry if this sounds rude, but the comparison between Annakkili and Roja were pathetic, to put it mildly.

rajasaranam

11th August 2005, 04:41 PM

Rajasarnam, If you want to escape by calling it fun, thats fine with me.. paavum what will u do. Roja is incomparable with album like Annakili. RS, only people from TN was coming to see IR but the entire nation woke up to see this great MD ARR.

Atleast now you accepted that only this nation 'woke up to see this great MD ARR'. and not the whole globe according to your prior claims. You are improving :thumbsup:

dinesh2002

11th August 2005, 05:31 PM

Rajasarnam, If you want to escape by calling it fun, thats fine with me.. paavum what will u do. Roja is incomparable with album like Annakili. RS, only people from TN was coming to see IR but the entire nation woke up to see this great MD ARR.

Atleast now you accepted that only this nation 'woke up to see this great MD ARR'. and not the whole globe according to your prior claims. You are improving :thumbsup:

atleast he did 10 times better than what IR did for his 1st debut da,its good u agree THE WHOLE NATION WOKE UP TO SEE THIS GREAT MD ARR ,ur improoving!! :lol:

alias

11th August 2005, 07:51 PM

yes Dinesh, I think RS is fast. RS, I said whole nation woke up to see the great MD ARR FOR ROJA and whole globe woke up to see the great MD ARR FOR Bombay Dreams.

rajasaranam

11th August 2005, 09:54 PM

* deleted *

alias

11th August 2005, 11:55 PM

Rajasarnam, I know you will steep to this level of comparision. You could not prove me with regards to Roja-Annakili and u start saying this. You need guts to prove it. You,kr,app_engine, go and hide behind IR, he will save u. One thing you need to put in your brain.

ARR IS THE CURRENT RULER OF IFM AND IR IS PAST. SO STOP SINGING YOUR LOST GLORY. ROJA IS FAR FAR FAR BETTER THAN ANNAKILI (FLUKE HIT).

jaiganes

16th August 2005, 01:44 PM

Another jolt for someone who thought IR is haughty , arrogant and has no respect for other MDs. In Kairali TV yesterday (15th august), he was talking eloquently about Devaraj master and his compositions.

vijayr

16th August 2005, 11:48 PM

jaiganes, IR has tremendous respect for MSV and a whole bunch of old HFM MDs. Of late, he has been mentioning them again and again. He has sung "nenjam marapadhillai" in several meetings and TV interviews and has talked about how "mayakkama kalakkama" changed his life and so on. Only when it comes to talking about his own music, he is unpredictable. Can sound modest at times and a little egoistic in other instances.

jaiganes

17th August 2005, 10:01 AM

vijay!
did u see that program?
It is a program on all Music Directors and their masterpieces.
IR was talking in Malayalam in that program

vijayr

17th August 2005, 09:30 PM

jaiganes, nope I didnt. Although I wouldnt have understood much, would have been interesting to see IR talk in mallu.

interz

7th September 2005, 08:28 PM

starting to hate they make too many remixes of old songs now.

coucou

13th September 2005, 09:24 PM

http://www.behindwoods.com/features/Topten/top10musicdirectors/tamil-cinema-topten-musicdirector-1.html

arr the number 1 :wink:

mr_karthik

14th September 2005, 12:43 PM

starting to hate they make too many remixes of old songs now.

Toomany remixes means, ippO uLLavangalukku 'sarakku' theerndhu pOchunnu artham.

YSR kooda 'DOSS' padathula, avanga appAvOda pAtu 'adiyE manam nillunA nikkAdahdi' yai thiruppi adichirukkAr.

already TR's 'en Asai mythiliyE' vai repeat panniyathu, well known.

app_engine

16th September 2005, 01:10 AM

"Pointing out that musicians like Ilayaraja and A R Rahman have made music composed in Chennai popular all over the country, the Prime Minister said Tamil people have worked hard to make the state one of the most prosperous regions of the country."

http://www.newkerala.com/news.php?action=fullnews&id=19765