Comments on Outlook article & other TiS criticisms

[alwarpet_andavan]

Guys,
Finally Vijay, IR does not need the symphony or RPO to be considered a Maestro. For me and every genuine music lover would agree i think, IR is a Maestro regardless of symphony. Lets not try to degrade a person of IR's stature just to counter someone else's comments about ARR. Both are great composers so lets leave it at that.
Vijay,
I agree with you to some extent. That said, i second the above mentioned point. And your dig at TIS was quite uncalled for, given the fact that you contribute to that thread regularly. I'm not sitting here in judgement but as rprasad said, just for countering arguments and proving points about statistics, reaching a section of people who have always been rather intolerant etc, please don't take digs at works which you yourself know are not capable of being surpassed by anyone in India, ARR or whoever......

[alwarpet_andavan]

13 yrs at the top-nu varsham varshama auto-increment pottukinne poraangoooooo, reality mattum vera ennanamo solludhu :D
:D
For the record, for all this talk about being #1 etc.... currently i think its YSR and VS who are at the top of TFM, Anbe Aruyire being at the top notwithstanding.........

[alwarpet_andavan]

vijayr:

Just like you were responding to my posting, I was responding to an IR-insulting post by alias.

Listen, for you ARR staying for 13 years might be a reflector of his quality. My opinions are different. (People like Karuananidhi, MGR, Jayalalitha, Indira Gandhi have had long lasting fan following - doesnt mean that they are necessarily quality politicians or leaders or even the best alternatives out there. They were just the most popular - they had the most awareness - they were most promoted etc.)



Good point and this is NOT to compare the aforementioned people with ARR in any way........

We may use different yardsticks for asserting our musical preferences. For me, like i've often repeated, IR is GOD and ARR is GOD's son/prodigy....
I don't care if IR doesn't have any fans north of the Vindhyas (a false claim), i don't care if he isn't given a rating by Time, if his symphony wasn't released, if he is not setting the TFM charts on fire. All i care for is that his music touches my heart in a way that cannot be matched by any musician dead or alive........
And no statistic can change that and i don't intend changing anyone else's opinion also.........

[vijayr]

alwarpet, my dig was at IR not towards TIS.And it was definitely called for, atleast in this thread, due to the likes of kr, rajasaranam and their ilk. In kr's terms what IR did was sheer self-hype, the quality of the work notwithstanding.He could have promoted it as an unique crossover experiment or something like that. But saying that it will live for 100 years or 200 years is all just that-hype.

"For the record, for all this talk about being #1 etc.... currently i think its YSR and VS who are at the top of TFM, Anbe Aruyire being at the top notwithstanding.."
ARR is still #1 overall, in terms of technical competence, audience coverage and salary commanded. Its just that his attention has been scattered over projects both North, South and abroad.

"which you yourself know are not capable of being surpassed by anyone in India, ARR or whoever'

Prejudiced comments like these are what that trigger responses like that from me. How do you know tyhat TIS can never be surpassed? Like someone mentioned ARR is just 38. He has lot of years ahead of him. L. Subramaniam has already done equally creative works. There are a bunch of other talented artistes whom I wont even bother mentioning.

"All i care for is that his music touches my heart in a way that cannot be matched by any musician dead or alive........
And no statistic can change that and i don't intend changing anyone else's opinion also.....'

You sound like yet another fanatic, except that you throw a comment in now and then saying that you also like ARR and think he is great, which to me sounds like mere hogwash right now.

"We may use different yardsticks for asserting our musical preferences'

well as long as you just admit thats just your prefernce, everything is fine. if kr had said that he just disliked ARR I would'nt have given a damn. When he started denigrating ARR using words like "quality" (which he hasnt defined still )or dismiss someone's musical achievment as hype thats when things start getting murkier.He his pushing his own prefernces/dislikes under the pretext of doing an objective analysis which he hasnt done so far.

[vijayr]

"People like Karuananidhi, MGR, Jayalalitha, Indira Gandhi have had long lasting fan following - doesnt mean that they are necessarily quality politicians or leaders or even the best alternatives out there'

Same could also be said about IR's 15 year rule in TN. appa mattum oththukka maatteengaLe. Truly objective fans, you guys are :-)

[alwarpet_andavan]

ARR is still #1 overall, in terms of technical competence, audience coverage and salary commanded. Its just that his attention has been scattered over projects both North, South and abroad.

Might be disputed by YSR and VS fans using your own yardsticks... BTW, i wish we'll end this point here......



Prejudiced comments like these are what that trigger responses like that from me. How do you know tyhat TIS can never be surpassed? Like someone mentioned ARR is just 38. He has lot of years ahead of him. L. Subramaniam has already done equally creative works. There are a bunch of other talented artistes whom I wont even bother mentioning.

I'll wait :)
And about L.S, sure he and a lot of others have done similar works, but they're not the same. ie. taking an old Indian literary work and setting tunes for the lyrics and how



You sound like yet another fanatic, except that you throw a comment in now and then saying that you also like ARR and think he is great, which to me sounds like mere hogwash right now.

Well, well well... who's getting fanatical here :)
If i state my opinion on who i rate first and second does that make me a fanatic? When i say, person A's music can touch my heart in a way that nobody else's music can (dead or alive), FYKI, that's called OPINION in the blessed English language. If you say the same about ARR, that's your opinion and i will never call you a fanatic or your statements hogwash nor do i have any valid right to do so.
And you calling my comments mere hogwash doesn't reduce my respect for ARR one bit.
Please try to respect others' opinions even when you disagree....





well as long as you just admit thats just your prefernce, everything is fine. if kr had said that he just disliked ARR I would'nt have given a damn. When he started denigrating ARR using words like "quality" (which he hasnt defined still )or dismiss someone's musical achievment as hype thats when things start getting murkier.He his pushing his own prefernces/dislikes under the pretext of doing an objective analysis which he hasnt done so far.
i believe kr has already explained why he said so......

[thumburu]

"IR announcing that his TIS will live beyond 100 years(and that there will be no more rebirths for him etc. Barathiraja pulled his legs for that comment during the TIS release function)). Why cant he just allow his music to do the talking? I have never heard any other MD say so about their own music. Ironically, IR talks about "blowing one's own trumpet" in several programmes, but he ends up doing it himself." - atleast irfans in this forum are sensible enuff not to take these kind of "medai pechu" from filmi folks seriously. IR's "foot in the mouth" disease is as old as himself. But the cat's crown must be awarded to those who eulogised ARR's adhi arpudha music during "ah aah" release function.Hype la kodambakkam ennikkume sodai ponadhillai
I think the opening up of the skies under the neo liberalization (thanks to Manmohanji) also contributed substantially to Roja's visibility.

[rajasaranam]

I didnt include kr, I said just you were the exception to decent IR fans. Dont try to garner support by putting words in my mouth. kr is far more dignified in his expression.

I know that your contribution to this DF is just limited to "usuppeththal" and little else :-) Thanks for confirming it. Beyond a point its futile to keep responding to your (usupp)peththals, so I stop here.


Finally you singled me out for you werent able to 'sorunjify your arippu with me' :?
Paavam Kr, he is only a junior hubber and doesnt know he is dealing with a 'nalla Paambu' . Soon he will mature and stop responding to your posts.
And your contribution were nothing more except a few jokes repeated again and again, that
#IR has given a lot of DUDs- more than other MD's
#regarding quality output he has given only 20%
#ARR is succesful in north so he needs to be appreciated.
#ARR gives 100% quality when compared to IR.
intha nallu sentencekku porul vilakkam vyakiyanam ellam solli periya periya joke kathai ezhuthina naanga ellam atha padichittu othukanum. illaenaa naanga jaalra goshti, fanatics.
enai single out panna madhiri can you single out one person from this DF who has bought in your crap [apart from ARR camp] despite your futile attempt for past many years?now who is a fanatic- A person who goes on repeating the same thing over and again careless to what others think. Or all of them who doesnt accept this one madmans blaberrings.

[rajasaranam]

I think the opening up of the skies under the neo liberalization (thanks to Manmohanji) also contributed substantially to Roja's visibility.
:) good to see someone else reflecting my own thoughts.

[Cinefan]

Vijayr,
I have been reading all the posts made for the last couple of days now.You accuse IR fan's of being fanatics while all they do is state that for them IR will always remain #1.I don't understand what's wrong with that.If at all they are justifying their opinion(which they don't have to),you can counter their arguments instead of resorting to calling them "fanatics".kr has justified his posts,you might not agree but to act as if he has not given any explanation is downright wrong.

Why don't you pull up ppl like alias,Scale, call them ARR fanantics who degrade IR :?

For me too IR is the MD whose music I listen to&like a lot.Even I FEEL ARR has a long way to go if he wants to be compared to IR.Does that make me a fanatic :?

That's my opinion&Like AA i have no intentions of either trying to change others opinions or changing my opinion just because IR doesn't give gr8 music these days,ARR conquered the North,statistically IR has given more duds then any other MD etc etc etc.

His melodies are more than enough to last my lifetime,if any other MD gives good music-gr8 I will buy a CD,listen to them&appreciate it,thats all.

But IR will always remain my most favourite.

[rajasaranam]

Okie folks lets get back to the topic :)
Next one from Charunivedhitha in recent edition of pudhiya paarvai
http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/bc/40641819_9bfb/bc/RAJA/Rajavin+Aanmiga+Ellai+Ethu+-Charu+Niveditha.pdf?bfhnz.CBDZFOdU7i

[Cinefan]

Okie folks lets get back to the topic :)
Next one from Charunivedhitha in recent edition of pudhiya paarvai
http://us.share.geocities.com/vadivam/RaajavinAanmigaEllaiEthu.Charu.pdf

rs,
when I clicked on the link I got this message : 'page is unavailable for viewing'

Can you give a gist of what he has to say?

[rajasaranam]

cinefan,
try now and reply whether you are able to view it :?

[Cinefan]

cinefan,
try now and reply whether you are able to view it :?

No luck still,is it just me or anyone else out there having a similar problem?

[rajasaranam]

cinefan,

vera link kuduthaenae didnt you notice my edited post. neway iam giving link now check out
http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/bc/40641819_9bfb/bc/RAJA/Rajavin+Aanmiga+Ellai+Ethu+-Charu+Niveditha.pdf?bfhnz.CBDZFOdU7i

[rajasaranam]

trying again :?
http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/bc/40641819_9bfb/bc/RAJA/Rajavin+Aanmiga+Ellai+Ethu+-Charu+Niveditha.pdf?bf_L0.CB_kZRdU7i
Hope its working

[Shankar]

I haven't even read this article....I will do it once I'm back..I'm sure he has another gnani kind of response...Remember, a coupla yrs back there was an article by this fellow, which triggred a major discussion.

[Vysar]

even I thought about the 27 lakhs donation to the temple when his volunteers were literally begging for thousands. I don't have anything against donation but that would have helped Tamil Maiyam and other folks out of debt a little bit because of IRs dream. It is not a personal attack just an observance as a Raja fan.

[rajasaranam]

vysar,

I too agree with Charu about that 27 lakhs donation in the article. while iam against him calling Raja as not a Rare Phenomenon quoting some names of yesteryear composers and Lsubramaniam etall. IR is ofcoures a rare phenomenon in this music world. who else can write such scores for a symphonic orchestra....36 instruments uff... in two days - others can only dream about it.
But the article was enligtening on BobMarley and Victor jara. and the Punch in the Final para was one with which i completely agree.

[prabhudas]

Hi RS,
Linky not worky?

[vijayr]

"i believe kr has already explained why he said so......"

alwarpet, kr hasnt explained anything so far. Stating your preference for IR is one thing, but when you accuse some other MD of being mostly hype and not posessing quality, thren you have to back it up, which he hasnt done and neither have you. Just say that you like IR and move on, when you pass statements that others cannot do such music or others are all hype and dont have quality then you have to back it up. If not, why pretend as if you you are making a rational or objective analysis? what "rational, objective analysis" did kr make apart from just stating his preference? Nothing. If I said that ARR 's music is the one that has quality and IR is all hype then you can accuse me of being fanatical. But I didnt. I am just defending some of the callous statements made on ARR here, in spite of being an IR fan too.

"And about L.S, sure he and a lot of others have done similar works, but they're not the same. ie. taking an old Indian literary work and setting tunes for the lyrics and how "

thats fine, they might have done something which IR hasnt attempted. That doesnt mean IR isnt capable of doing that or that they cannot do what IR has done. Lets not make sweeping statements that no one can do it etc. It sounds silly.

"Paavam Kr, he is only a junior hubber and doesnt know he is dealing with a 'nalla Paambu' . Soon he will mature and stop responding to your posts "

rajasaranam , kr has been around for quite some time, he doesnt need your sympathy.Its you who needs to grow up, not him.

"enai single out panna madhiri can you single out one person from this DF who has bought in your crap [apart from ARR camp] despite your futile attempt for past many years?"

Some of the comments that you have made on ARR wouldnt be bought by IR fans themselves. They will distance themselves from specimens like you. And I know many IR fans who have agreed with what I have said in the past. Check the archives if you want to. Even people who have differed with me on certain points have agreed on IR's innumerable duds and other things. So instead of trying to pathetically garner support by dragging kr or someone else, try to fend for yourself like a grown up kid.

[app_engine]

prabhudas, try downloading the .pdf. That works.
(Though there's little worthwhile to read, IMO...)

[emjay]

Haven't you seen people surrendering their lakh worth jewellery in Tirupathi Hundi where they put 50 paise for a begger waiting outside? It is not a surprise..

It is a matter of personal belief. There is hardly any right or wrong in this aspect. I know people who go to Hawaii spending SEVERAL thousand dollars for just FUN trip!! How much do they donate to charity? Do you think they should instead give $5000 to our charity? Or will you advocate them to do so?

Just for sheer comfort & luxury, I purchase hundreds of dollar worth product every month. I can live with my little boom box.. But, I purchased recently a iPod worth 400!!.

Well, if getting for oneself is defendable, donating to Almighty needs a much more generous heart.

However, it is understandable concern on your part when when tis-usa and Tamil Mayyam is under stress...
tis-usa or Tamil Mayyam didnot take up this effort with money/fame in its mind..So, let us continue to add value to its intent. Let us do what best we can. And I am positive that with a little bit of more vigour, motivation and hard work, we can DOUBLE THE CURRENT SALES FIGURE.

And, He has given us so much with His music to us, our society. Let us work together to support this without much complains and that will show our magnanimity.

I hope you all take my observation in right spirit.

[TISK]

FOCUS is one thing we lack and thus we allow people like Charu, Gnaani who dwell not the project and its worthiness but on other sundries and trash, knowing fully well that there are some gullible people out there who will fall for this and create the needed negative publicity they want to generate for a project.

If only we learn to leave out things which are in the perscpective, right out there and focus on the task ahead, we can achieve a lot.
What IIR does with his personal money is his prerogative and we do not have any moral nor ethical right to comment or criticize on that. period.

He didn't donate to Mokkaambikaa from Tis Money or profits! TiS is not his one and only source of income! And, he did this even before he got any revenues from Wellgate!

So, just leave him alone and as 'emjay' rightly said, focus on how we can promote this great music to more people which alone will silence all these mm's!

TbI is divine and let us get this message out LOUD and CLEAR to all!

FOCUS!
YIA!

[rajdes]

TisK, Splendid attitude!
Basically, it is IR-bashers who want to take mileage out of everything and anything to say something against him
And here we have a person directly affected who has proper perspective.

The attitde of Charu, and others here supporting the "why didnt he help out tis-us" is like "aadu nanaiyudhenu onai azhudhudhaam"

[rprakash]

TISK, I sent you 2 mails trying to find whwther you can post to UK-one clicking on your name in this forum and the other from the contact us link in website. I havent had a reply from u yet-is there a problem with these email id's? I dont know how many sales you are missing out because of this.

[TISK]

Dear Dr. Prakash,
I did reply to you immediately to the id provided!
[I even indicated that 'yes, i am a medical doctor!]
Pl. send me a mail to tisusa@gmail.com, if you will!
Thanks.
YIA!!

[emjay]

Hi-

1) We can check with Pittsburgh temple, Arora and Wheeling temple if they would like to keep some TbI @ their stores!

2) Whenever a new movie is released (say Tamil), we kinda know the persons involved in ticket distribution in our local theatres, right? So, we can contact them to have TbI aside with them RIGHT at the place of distributing tickets @ Theatre..

Makes sense?

[tmrrmt]

Friends -

Very recently, one Mr.Mittal, an NRI business magnate spent more than 450 crores for his daughter's wedding in a single day!

the cost of making a nuclear missile is enough to feed millions for months together

the cost of the total number of missiles (nuclear and non-nuke) spread across the world is sufficient to feed another couple of billion

the amount of money spent in many Indian weddings is more than what is actually required for these weddings (btw, besides one mangalsutra, a fire,faith in your hearts, and the blessings of elders,what else is required for a marriage ?) and can easily feed a few hundred people

the total amount of glittering jewellery which most Indian women and some men adorn can easily buy food for several starving millions

like this, I can go on - why do we crib when IR donates something from his pocket ?

why do we equate a musical genius with the person that he is ? whether he donates 25 lakhs or crores to x,y,z cause is none of our business - it is his chosen path, period

if one goes by this kind of a cribbing, then tomorrow, we may as well start cribbing "why IR is so talented ?", "why not me, or you ?" - there is no end to this

Just one small titbit: Richard Clarke, former chief of antiterror operations for the US, in his book, "Against All Enemies" casually remarks that between, 1960-1990, both the US and the USSR, individually 'manufactured' 25 odd different strains each of Marburg and Ebola viruses (two of the deadliest strains mankind has ever known!), while the whole global scientific community was trying to find a cure to existing pathogenic spread of diseases, slogging day in and out, with many scientists dedicating their lives to these causes

Most people here are projecting as if IR has done something like what is mentioned in this titbit above

[jaiganes]

madhan wrote:

1960-1990, both the US and the USSR, individually 'manufactured' 25 odd different strains each of Marburg and Ebola viruses (two of the deadliest strains mankind has ever known!)
Interesting! I just now finished reading "The demon in the freezer" by Richard Preston and the details cannot be anymore blood chilling. In this cruel world it is individuals like Ilaiyaraja and their heart warming music that is offering any solace. However people like charu nivedita, s.Anand and gnani afflicted by thought process ebolas cannot tolerate even this and try to poison even the gentle breeze of Raaja.
We can only pity such people. Meanwhile Thiruvasagam is filling up every artery and vein of mine and giving me peace. Let the same peace pervade the minds of such people too.

[tmrrmt]

jaiganes - it is not just 'Interesting!' - for scientists like me, it is numbing, shocking and what not!

The National Institute of Health (with HQ in Bethesda, MD, USA),the NICD, the WHO and many other organisations around the world are spending billions of dollars in researching diseases while, at the same time, two superpowers were busy actually 'manufacturing' strains of Marburg and Ebola

What should cause alarm is that, Richard Clarke never mentions in his book, if these strains were completely destroyed or not, after the Cold War was over! -

besides, with the amount of transactions going on around the world in arms and ammunition manufacture, transfer and distribution, we never know if some of these strains changed hands clandestinely and are being kept ready for the future - scary thought, isn't it ?

[Shankar]

I don't know why you give importance to non-entities like gnani and charu...One common thing i noticed with these guys are that they come out with some obscure author from spain/ Latin america (no charu doesn't discuss gabriel garcia marquez/paulo coelho , bcos we all know them :-) ), and talk like they know everything under the sun ...The intetion here is quite clear...they just want to criticize Raja, and they cannot criticize his work, so they crticize him (Isn't the fact that charu has no idea about music when he compares TiS with some mundane fusion works ? - LS has given some good albums like conversations, but give me one album which is as complete as TiS )

[thumburu]

well said TISK

[jaiganes]

madhan!
i am indeed shocked! but not at the fact you are quoting now, coz, I have read about that already in "The demon in the freezer" and it was a blood chilling read, particularly when Richard Preston describes the Russian facility to manufacture and spray small pox spores. Also there are blood curdling accounts of Small Pox outbreaks in India in the same book.
It is a very good possibility that these harmful technologies have moved on to all wrong hands and the only thing that seems to be stopping these people is the fear that they themselves would be affected in a outbreak triggered by them.

Query to Moderators: Can we extract these and post in a new thread in miscellaneous?

[alwarpet_andavan]

Rajasaranam,
You can find the link to the Charu article in one of the IR fan club yahoo group messages..... I'm sorry i can't do it now as i'm rushing on a trip right now........

BTW, haven't read it myself yet......

Cinefan, as usual you've articulated my (your) points well :)

[alwarpet_andavan]

"but when you accuse some other MD of being mostly hype and not posessing quality, thren you have to back it up, which he hasnt done and neither have you.
1. I categorically stated that i DID NOT believe that ARR was all hype
2. Quality is subjective. If you can say ARR is superior because of technical competence (undefined!), kr can say IR has more quality (FOR HIM, as cinefan clearly put it)....Moreover, i dont think a thing like quality can be defined in clearly universally acceptable terms... preference again.....If you say ARR has more quality by your yardsticks, its perfectly fine with me and so it should be with kr i guess....

Bottom line: We are stating opinions here, nothing more nothing less... i don't subscribe to the view that ARR is hype and has no quality, its just a question of who i prefer more.......

I hold TIS in a very emotional and personal high esteem and to me, none can bring me an experience like what i experience while listening to TIS .... However, maybe ur right that IR may not have done something done by say L.S, or the band Shakti.... fair enough....Again, a question of preference... so to rephrase, i'm not judging LS or Shakti vis a vis IR, just stating my preferential ranking.....

Lastly, vijay, i wish we end this here and continue with other amicable discussions :) No point having a bitter taste in the mouth at the end of the day.....

[vijayr]

AA, I ended the discussion yesterday itself:-) But to re-iterate(so that you may remember what transpired), if kr wanted to state just his prefernce for IR, none of this would have happened. Even I have a prefernce for IR's music. But unfortunately he didnt stop with that. He talked about lack of quality etc. in Rahman's music. When you have to denigrate another MD in order to state your prefernce then you run the risk of being called a fanatic. Did I say anytime that IR's music lacked quality, in this whole discussion? Even you are wrongly assuming that I prefer ARR's music, not true. I was just defending ARR from baseless accusations, thats all, although I might not be a big fan of his like alias. If quality is completely subjective(which is not entirely true, there are certain paramters that we can use to grade music), then why did kr throw in terms like "objective analysis, "rational analysis " etc.? THat was my beef. If he was just stating his opinion, then its not any "objective analysis", you know that. Just because he can express himself eloquently that doesnt make his posts technical or objective :-) I'll stop it here too.

[genesis]

From the book "Zen And The Art of Motorcylce Maintenance" by Robert M. Pirsig....

Quality -- you know what it is, yet you don't know what it is. But that's selfcontradictory.But some things are better than others, that is, they have more quality. But when you try to say what the quality is, apart from the things that have it, it all goes poof! There's nothing to talk about. But if you can't say what Quality is, how do you know what it is, or how do you know that it even exists? If no one knows what it is, then for all practical purposes it doesn't exist at all. But for all practical purposes it really does exist. What else are the grades based on? Why else would people pay fortunes for some things and throw others in the trash pile? Obviously some things are better than others -- but what's the ``betterness''? -- So round and round you go, spinning mental wheels and nowhere finding anyplace to get traction. What the hell is Quality? What is it?

Instead of one single,uniform Quality now there appeared to be two qualities; a romantic one, just seeing, which the students had; and a classic one, overall understanding, which the teachers had. A hip one and a square one. Squareness was not the absence of Quality; it was classic Quality. Hipness was not just presence of Quality; it was mere romantic Quality. The hip-square cleavage he'd discovered was still there, but Quality didn't now seem to fall entirely on one side of the cleavage, as he'd previously supposed. Instead, Quality itself cleaved into two kinds, one on each side of the cleavage line. His simple, neat, beautiful, undefined Quality was starting to get complex.

[app_engine]

http://216.65.197.170/kumudam/310805/pg3.php

It's surprising that kumudam is soft on Raja nowadays...

[krihoo]

I too read the article in OUTLOOK.....these guys are bad people who disturb great and creative ppl like IR....for their selfish reasons ....thats very bad...they might not be able to contribute good things anyway...atleast they shud not disturb ppl who are doing good.....and i was very angry at that photo they showed on top...i think they purposely cut the photo into half and showing as if IR is guilty of some mistake of his and bowing his head in that...but anyway down below they shown the full pic...else ppl anyway will kill them....ha hahaaa

these things show how bad they are !!! I think IR better be careful when talking with this PRINT media...norma video interview is no problem...but print media is very different and very dangerous since its misleading as it hides the persons facial expressions....which will be exploited full by these ppl......eg: i might say naveen is a rascal while laughing.....samething if printed as KRIHOO SAYS NAVIN IS RASCAL....in headlineS its complety misleading!!

[thumburu]

app_engine why don't u explain very briefly what it is about?

[Cacaphonix]

thumburu,


What is your opinion about IR's words "I am beyond those trashes" to the question about the 'revolutionary music' of Bob marley, Bob dylan, paavalar varadharaajar, asked in Outlook?

Arasu: It is not necessary that IR should know about those "greats artists" just because IR knows about music. Let Raaja listen to marley's famous songs and the path breaking music of dylan. It is fortunate that IR did not say about John lennon.

This is what, i guess, app_engine is referring to. It is kumudam arasu badhilgaL section.

[thumburu]

Cacaphonix, IR was right in rebuffing an irrelevant question asked with an ulterior intention

[kavin]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,5673,1563360,00.html

support for the view that live-8 is garbage

[app_engine]

And at least two of my African American friends termed `Bob Marley' as equivalent to `drug addiction'...which IMHO is same as `garbage' (whatever music he produces doesn't mean anything if he promotes drugs...)

[r_kk]

[tscii:45025d928a]I have kept away from this discussion after Alvarpet Andavan made post asking to put on end. But recent comments made by “app_engine” and “Kavni” made me to write this.


And at least two of my African American friends termed `Bob Marley' as equivalent to `drug addiction'...which IMHO is same as `garbage' (whatever music he produces doesn't mean anything if he promotes drugs...)

Do you want to project IR as better than Bob Marley, just by mentioning Marley’s addiction to Marijuana? Please note that our famous Tamil writers Bharathi, Jayaganthan and many more were/are also addicts to this plant. The addiction to Marijuana is still very common among many spiritual seekers (!) wandering around Ganges and Himalayas!

Many of the famous artists and poets (example Kannadaasan, Omar Kayam) were/are addict to Alcohol. It doesn’t mean neigther such addiction can be considered justifiable or their personal habits and weakness need to be justified. But we can not downgrade their great whole hearted love towards humanity by raising questions on their personal habits. I request you to read and compare the life of Bob Marley as well as the life of IR (before his spiritual inclination) before making such comments on Bob Marley.

Bob Marley’s Reggae or Gadder’s “Parai” or any other similar efforts are basically and sincerely aimed to use the art for the uplift of suffered people. In my opinion, such effort will remain much longer than any melodious /heart soothing (or melting) spiritual music/art, as Swami Vivekanda once said God/religion is no use for the people with empty stomach. Any service/effort to suffered human beings is more than any prayers or any divine works including so-called divine music. In my opinion any spiritual music which rejects humanism, is waste even it has high quality music and made with expensive troops. TIS might be heart soothing but Gadder’s “parai” or Bob Marley’s “Reggae” are brain awakening and it is more divine (in my opinion) considering the level of humanism involved.

In a recent hardtalk extra (BBC TV program), one of the great musician of our time Pandit Ravi Sankar praised the effort of Live8 in bringing world attention towards poor people of South Africa. He is also a spiritual man and considers his music is divine similar to IR, but doesn’t reject the effort like Live8 as garbage. Please don’t start a war comparing Pandit Ravi Sankar (the best known Indian Musician as BBC called) with IR.

I had also listened the TIS few times but frankly I couldn’t able to appreciate it. It may be due to my lack of knowledge or interests in such western music. I still feel IR own music troop would have been done better music of my choice. I still prefer to hear Bharathi or Nizalgal or Mouna Raagam or Alaigal Oaivathillai or Johny or even Priya than TIS. You all can call me as “Gnana Suniyam” but please note that every one has their own likes and dislikes. I also fan of IR music but it is not necessary that I have to accept whatever IR produces as great. You all may have entirely different views.

If you want to praise IR or TIS, you all have the rights to do. But calling other sincere artists or their sincere efforts as Garbage is not at all necessary and it will lead to only nonsensical debates.

If you don’t want to look at any opposite views about TIS or IR recent comment, then just ask the moderator to delete this kind of threads, call the people with opposite views as useless dusts and just praise and praise your lords/gurus/musicians/ideals. It is all up to you.

[/tscii:45025d928a]

[app_engine]

r_kk,
Let me make something clear first - I'm not defending IR for his interview. My post is only a part of the discussion about those whom he trashed.

Now you said:

"The addiction to Marijuana is still very common among many spiritual seekers (!) wandering around Ganges and Himalayas..."

I won't think for even a second to dump such efforts as ABSOLUTE TRASH! Adding big names like Bharathi does not enhance the claims to legalize drug addiction in any way. If anything, it's a black mark for such illustrious people and I NEVER ATTRIBUTE THEIR CREATIVITY TO THE POLLUTING OF THEIR BODIES AND MINDS WITH SUCH STUFF.

Now, my comments w.r.t Bob Marley was not just related to his addiction but promotion of drugs among his followers...what I learnt from those who listened to his music that even THE CONTENTS OF HIS ALBUMS PROMOTED DRUGS AND SUCH DELINQUENT BEHAVIOUR. And personally I hate to listen to any such stuff that promotes drugs / alcoholism / sexual perversions etc.

While we can dismiss his own addictions as something personal, how can we accept him promoting such vices to others (either by his setting up a public model or through his artistic output)? If that is not trash, then what else is?

Once again please don't mistake, I'm not bent upon `defending IR' for whatever remarks he makes from time to time...he could be outspoken and even outrageous at times. At times, criticism of his opinions is definitely in place.

That does not mean that everything he speaks is out of arrogance either. After doing my own research on Bob Marley (and his effects on community), I've reached certain conclusions.

Again these are as per certain values / standards which I've arrived at for myself over the 40 yrs' lifetime, which may not be the same as yours.

All I can say is please do not jump into some extremist bandwagon / group (usually brainwashed by jolna bags sitting in a corner of India and producing / reading a distinctly `colored' literature but never directly interacting with or actually visiting any lands / peoples outside)...I personally had discussions with a number of them and often found them severely lacking information about what others believe...Theirs is equivalent to the superstitions people have such as `I was born as one' `My grandpa taught this' etc...only the words are different... `so-and-so says so' `science claims so' etc., never digging in to find whether that is absolute truth or just a theory.

And my remarks about Bob Marley are no way related to the others in question - Live 8 or Gaddar or Pavalar, about whom my knowledge is zero and I haven't done any research either...

[kavin]

r_kk,

thanks for taking the trouble to respond to my post.

I have to state that my comments are limited to live-8 only and nothing else. I followed live-8 since its announcement, its attempts to reach to decandent mass, the sms gimmicks, and till the day it happened. as i watched live-8, the opinion that it was whatever I think it was rooted firmly in my mind. I challenge you to change my opinion about live-8. IR's comments about live-8 came much later and i was just happy to see that HE, whose music i relate strongly with, also sharing my opinion and hence my efforts to contribute in this thread.

this has nothing to do with TIS or other eminent personalities you have stated. I still believe that IR's comments were about live-8 and not about Marley or Dylan or whoever else. if you read the article again it is pretty obvious that it was unethical journalism. Unless IR tells me otherwise I am quite unlikely to change my opinion.

I am quite happy to take this discussion further if it is about live-8.

[rajasaranam]

app_engine,

What about Lord Shiva Who himself is a Marijuana addict about whom IR/Manickavasagar praises in TIS. Hope IR Finds time to say that Lord shiva Is a garbage :)

[app_engine]

rs, `netRikkaN thiRappinum, kutRam, kutRamE':-)

[njv]

app_engine,

What about Lord Shiva Who himself is a Marijuana addict about whom IR/Manickavasagar praises in TIS. Hope IR Finds time to say that Lord shiva Is a garbage :)

Yenna Rajasaranam, neengathaan sivanukku potlam kodutheengala. Chumma naathigangara perula yedhavena sollalaamnu ninaikatheenga.

[r_kk]

Hi app_engine,
Please read my post again. I didn't suppot drug addiction as well as personal habits well known poets and writers. Personally myself is a stern non-smoker.

I can quote the words of Jaykanthan about marijuana and attach lots of web links to show how many so called spiritual seekers including famous gurus use this. It all doesn't mean such acts can be justified. But I can certainly say that Bob Marley whole hearted wish is much beyond promoting marijuana.

I accept that the religious sect "RASTAFARIANS", which Marley subscribed to, use marijuana for the so-called elevated spritual level to communicate with so-called God. The same is common among many sufi sects, Tibetian buddhism and Tantric hinduism. If I write details about usage of this marijuana in various religious sects, this post will become too big and entirely out of the subject of current thread. But I also accept your calling of promoting such mind control plant as trash. But unfortunately many religious beliefs also fall in to this category.

Then, I request you to check the following web site, if you have some time.

http://www.hoboes.com/html/Politics/Prohibition/Notes/Marijuana12000.html

http://www.puffmama.ca/articles/hist2.html

Hi Kavin,
regarding Live-8 and its effectiveness, we can discuss in separate thread. I will provide my views whenever I have some spare time.

Hi All,
The following is one of the best web article, comparing Bob Marley's music and IR. You may all reject Saru Nivedita who wrote this article as useless dust and ignornet self drum beat because of his other articles againt TIS, just read this article to understand the life of Bob Marley and his music.
http://www.charuonline.com/kp152.html

[sureshmehcnit]

My take on Charu and Gnani's post against Thiruvasakam

http://ursmusically.blogspot.com/2005/08/worst-criticism-on-thiruvasakam-album.html

[Shankar]

>>>>>>>>>>>..
What about Lord Shiva Who himself is a Marijuana addict about whom IR/Manickavasagar praises in TIS. Hope IR Finds time to say that Lord shiva Is a garbage Smile
<<<<<<<<<<<

RS,
idhu enna pudhu kadhai...I just want to know who supplies marijuana to Lord Shiva, idhu enda e v ramasamy oda varisu avuthuvutta kadhai ??...Nonsense!!

[Kupps]

illaadha, karpanayaana sivan kanja kudichcha enna illa thanni adichchaa enna?

so aathiganOda sivan kanja kudichcha naathiganOda thooimayaana mahaangaL kuduikanumaa illa kanja kudichchaa thappu illangara maadhiri paattu paadalaama?

but there should be some limit to all these idiocy. All these crappy talks that IR told correctly or IR committed blasphemy by talking about them and all base their premise on some crooked fellow twisted one word of what IR told and some drunkard idiots wrote something based on that.

read rosavasanth's blogspot for correct details.

[Shankar]

kupps,
wud appreciate if you give a pointer to that blogspot.

I cannot comment on bob marley, for I haven't listened to those "trash" as Raja put it (only instance was when I listened to buffalo soldier when someone said Deva copied this number, and I didn't bother to listen to it fully) If bob marley did indeed promote drugs, the whole "good-intent" of his is nullified...what 'upliftment' are we talking about here when you ask ur followers to spend their money on drugs??

[Shankar]

r_kk,
If you are promoting bob marley using charu's blogs, U've lost it! think about someone worth his salt talking about bob marley or whoever.

[Shankar]

>>>>>>>>>>>..
I accept that the religious sect "RASTAFARIANS", which Marley subscribed to, use marijuana for the so-called elevated spritual level to communicate with so-called God. The same is common among many sufi sects, Tibetian buddhism and Tantric hinduism.But unfortunately many religious beliefs also fall in to this category.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<

These kind of cults do come and go every now and then (remember heaven's gate ??)
None of the religions that have survived the change in times have subscribed to these ideas (hinduism, christianity and islam in their purest forms haven't got anything to do with these beliefs)

[r_kk]

Hi sureshmehcnit,
The web link you had given again takes to the another bloc of IR forum. Most of them equate Gnani (X) and Saru (Y) as dogs barking against Sun (IR). For an IR fan, IR may be sun and others may be just X and Y or garbage. But for a Jamican or fan of African music, Bob Marely might be the sun. For the supprssed people of Andra, Gadder might be the sun. So the term "Sun" is very relative. Saru or Ganani might not have done great achivement or have great fame what IR have through his commercial music. It doesn't mean that whatever they had written are nonsence and should be rejected. Just leave aside the achivement of X and Y and look in to what they are telling. If possible, place a counter argument or request IR to give a single statement (note-1) against the outlook article.

(Note 1: still I doubt whether IR really meant it or not, whether he knows sure about what he was talking to Outlook reporter Anand, whether first all he knows about Marely or Gadder or not)

Hi Shankar,
Please check the Hasish usage among Indian spiritual seekers and find the mythical stories behind it.
http://lankawatchdog.org/hemp.htm

Have you ever tasted the "bhang" milk during Holi festival. If you tell yes, then you may loose the credit to talk against marijuana.

http://www.holifestival.org/tradition-of-bhang.html

For Marijuana usage in other major beliefs, please refer the following
http://paranoia.lycaeum.org/marijuana/culture/

[sureshmehcnit]

r_kk: personally i do feel that IR should not have said like that. It is one of the biggest mistake he has commited in recent times. by giving statements like these, he is contradicting himself. he has said many times that "all music are same, no music is inferior to the other" then i don't know why he himself criticizes other forms of music and its creators.

Regd my blog, i wrote against charu and gnani mainly becasue they wrote bad agianst Thiruvasakam which is a great music compostion. In case of opposition against IR for his statement in the outlook interview i am very much on Charu and Gnani's side.

hope you understood my stand

[Kupps]

http://rozavasanth.blogspot.com/2005/08/blog-post_13.html

[Shankar]

r_kk,
I am proud to say that I haven't consumed these stuff in any form...I have been to holi during my engineering days, and have never touched bhaang...I have neither smoked nor boozed. I am very emphatic on these points purely on those virtues :-)

Reg the spiritual seekers...I don't call them spiritual seekers...They are like heaven's gate to me :-).

>>>>>
Saru or Ganani might not have done great achivement or have great fame what IR have through his commercial music.
<<<<<

You don't need any qualification to criticize anyone...When you are a public figure, any non-entity can comment on your work...My beef with their argument was, they were criticizing Raja the person, they had no idea whatsoever about the music he had composed, and instead of commenting on his work, they spoke about Raja the person.

For all you know, these 2 might also be bigtime users of any of those things mentioned above....I am sure about one of these 2, the other one i have no idea about. If that were the case, its the idealogical difference they have with Raja ,eclipsing the objective people in them, making them comment like this about Raja. This again is incorrect.

In an interview to SUN TV, Kamal beautifully put it, "Raja and I have been working together for 26 yrs, and we are good friends inspite of our beliefs. That's bcos we speak only about our common interest, and leave out the rest"...Why can't these non-entities do that ?

[r_kk]

http://rozavasanth.blogspot.com/2005/08/blog-post_13.html

Thanks kupps, very useful link. having lot of information.

My quote to Saru's article is just for giving the best informationa available about Bob Marly (in Tamil). Your links also gives similar opinion.

Hi Sankar,
Bhang is just one form of addiction. If we have to reject a genius based on his/her some of the habits which we can't accept, then we have to reject many geniuses who smokes Cigrates, drinks Alchocol (including wine!) and etc (so many). My personal opinion is that we can't judge them as "trash" based on our own views.

[app_engine]

r_kk, I appreciate your clarification as well as your personal stand on drugs.

If you read my post again, it focussed not on the habits of individuals in itself but mainly on the content of their output as well as their influence on the audience - both by their output and their personality.

That's where the problem lies, contrary to what you suggest like "But I can certainly say that Bob Marley whole hearted wish is much beyond promoting marijuana."

No decent individual in TN remembers Bharathi or Jayakanthan or even KD PRIMARILY as a promoter of drugs. Most of their creative output is also not related to such substances (though KD has some output like `oru kOppaiyilE' etc., it was negligible compared to the high quality work done otherwise).

OTOH, when I talk to any decent individual of African origin (there are a tons of them in Detroit and I do have many friends from this background), they seem to relate Marley with drugs and not with any of those things that are claimed to be `much beyond'...looks like this man who is called `reggae king' and died at the age of 36 did leave an unpalatable legacy...

That is where lies the problem. Those `much beyond' are probably just the wishful promotion of Gnani kind of jolna bag groups in India (and similar sites on the web), merely to promote their radical ideas. These individuals / sites may not really have a grip on the actual influence of such artists upon the public (may be they do not care or may be they even like such bad influences)...especially on the impressionable youths.

(Disclaimer - I'm fortunate that none of my friends frequent the shady neighborhoods of motown...I may get a different opinion about Marley otherwise)

[Sanjeevi]

My take on Charu and Gnani's post against Thiruvasakam

http://ursmusically.blogspot.com/2005/08/worst-criticism-on-thiruvasakam-album.html

:thumbsup:

Vikatan.com la oru article bathi munnadiye Saru nivedita IR fans kitta irunthu nalla vangi kattiirukkaru. He told like "Niraiya theenikal kotti vittana" in his next article.

[r_kk]

r_kk,
Those `much beyond' are probably just the wishful promotion of Gnani kind of jolna bag groups in India (and similar sites on the web), merely to promote their radical ideas. These individuals / sites may not really have a grip on the actual influence of such artists upon the public (may be they do not care or may be they even like such bad influences)...especially on the impressionable youths.


There are few ways to analyze Bob Marley. First way is to go through his lyrics and understand what he was promoting. The second way is to ask some Jamaican's (not few selective, with other kind of strong prejudiced beliefs). The another way is to read his personal life in total. Without doing anything, we can't call him as mere marijuana promoter.

Then here most of us conveniently ignoring the same kind of promotion during our holi celebration and some times during Maha Sivarathiri celebration. Please try to understand its usage before "Bhang"ra dance. One side Indian community accepts its usage during their spritual and cultural festivals and other side the same community is calling others who use as part of their ritual as trash. We have to either call both as trash or both as the acceptable one.

As my personal opinion, usage of marijuana in both should be considered as "trash", but degrading a entire belief system based on just one point may not be correct.

[Shankar]

r_kk,
I clearly understand the point you are trying to make...My take on this is, it doesn't matter whether bob marley takes it or my cousin in the north uses it, in my set of vices these find a place, and I won't subscribe to that practice just bcos someone known to me/close to me does it.

I also agree that one should not write-off someone else's work because he's addicted to drugs/alcohol (example barathi, KD, flute mali)...but again, my arguments are against those unworthy people, who have nothing in them to look upon, and you know the examples :-)

[tmrrmt]

[tscii:159af9e140]Hello everyone - my few cents on this topic of drugs usage:

Dr. David R. Hawkins renowned psychiatrist, physician, researcher and lecturer, author of "Orthomolecular Psychiatry" (co-authored with Nobel Laureate Linus Pauling), and "POWER vs. FORCE", conclusively proves the ability of kinesiological testing to distinguish truth or falsehood in any statement—an astonishing idea in itself, with far
reaching implications for every aspect of human life.
He goes on to demonstrate the application of his method (explained clearly for the layman) in commerce, art, sport, etc. Then he explains its spiritual application, as a path to enlightenment

For instance,as per his calibration scale, feelings like anger, guilt, envy, greed, get a value less than
200, while compassion, selflessness, tolerance etc are
all above 200 - as per his model, all those recognised as prophets and saints have a consciousness level rating of 1000, i.e., the more one conquers ego,greed, anger and other negative feelings, the more saintly one becomes and one's consciousness level keeps going up accordingly on the calibration scale that Dr.Hawkins has modelled

So far so good - while much of his work is highly laudable, he talks nonsense, when he claims that consuming alcohol in the form of wine, increases one's consciousness level to a calibrated state of 400

Equating 'a temporary sense of euphoria' to increased level of consciousness is absolute rubbish - and that too a scientist of Dr.Hawkins' calibre making such statements is not only misleading, but dangerous for science and value systems of societies - this is more so because, consuming alcohol in any form results in the consumer losing his/her sense of discrimination between right and wrong and consciousness levels actually go down - increased levels of consciousness levels actually make you more aware of yourself, whereas intoxicants do the opposite -

at this rate, someone tomorrow, might come up with a cock -and-bull theory that consumption of ganja, brown sugar, cocaine and related drugs will increase one's consciousness levels to more than 1000 perhaps and thus equate or even elevate drug users and alcoholics to a state above that of the great Saints and Prophets who incarnated on this earth, for some sublime reason!

IMHO, for the above reasons, we should be very careful in judging the works and the ideologies/beliefs of popular artists such as Bob Marley - even Santana, the great guitarist was a big-time addict (of some drug or the other)

As per the Indian yogic system, which forms the base/ foundation of much of Indian philosophy and Hindu beliefs,
the ultimate objective in life is to have complete mastery over/control one's senses, which is IMPOSSIBLE to do, in a state of inebriation/addiction - to remain completely detached from everything, while doing everything is what Gita-Upadesh also emphasises on

whereas drugs/booze actually take the consumer LOSE his/her senses - there is a huge difference between CONTROLLING one's senses and LOSING them!

CONTROLLING the SENSES takes one closer to the ultimate reality while LOSING THEM, makes your inner self more CHAOTIC and less QUIESCENT

hence, all this drama about junkies turning into musicians and vice-versa in per se unacceptable and takes one away from the real objective, which is 'TRUTH' that exists at a different plane[/tscii:159af9e140]

[tmrrmt]

And what I have tried to communicate applies as much to the so-called spiritual seekers high on drugs as they apply to folks like Bob Marley

[app_engine]

Good points, Madhan.

r_kk, thanks for your objective posting. I'm with you on trashing ANY use of substance abuse.

OTOH, I do not agree with your suggestion for a 'deep-dive' into a known drug-addict's life/works to come to a conclusion about his value to humankind. Such a person - who failed to have control over his own body / life - is not a worthy enough model to study & spend any more time.

If we already have familiarity / introduction with the works of such a person before such knowledge - or are bombarded involuntarily with the products of such a person, it's a totally different issue...but not the voluntary deep-dive, after learning about such shady involvements / promotions.

'idhu uNmayilEyE kuppai dhAnA' endRu sila kAriyangaLai kiLaRippArkkum aLavukku time is not so cheap IMHO. Instead, we probably need to spend time studying the life / works of someone more reputed -like Gandhiji- to enrich our lives, which will be time well spent...again IMHO.

[Shankar]

Folks,
http://www.charuonline.com/kp143.html

This fellow has a personal grudge against Raja ! Statements like , "TiS sounds like BG Score for a movie like jurrasic park" speaks volumes of his "isai gnAnam" :-)

[rajdes]

Shankar,
This guy doesnt stop with earning the wrath of IR Fans. Now, he has decided that he hasnt had enough of the brickbats so what's the next level? Why, bash ARR, ofcourse. Apparently, Manirathnam movies are nothing but a young chap wooing young girls with "music lifted from Sufi or Arabic sources by ARR" in the background. (words in quote charu's)

Now, Maddy & co,. there is a worthy for you to direct your bile upon.
(Tamizh padikka varuma?).

[vijayr]

why do you guys bang your head over Charu's opinions? I would be more upset if I read reviews like that from someone who has atleast a smattering of music. There are better reviews from bloggers online.

[rajdes]

vijayr, absolutely. I dont care a hoot what Charu, or even a discerning blogger says about music I like.
But this guy is fun to read.It's like watching those vijayakanth movies - and the viewer making comedy scenes out of intended action scenes :-)

[Shankar]

vijayr,
As raj has mentioned, i had a big laugh after reading it and thot I will share this with dfers...You guys might want to read another piece called "yAsikkirEn" where he compares his "poverty" with Barathi's !!! Soooper comedy !

[thumburu]

poor charu!!! aiyoo paavam, he could not even distinguish his intellectual, musical poverty to the material kind which Barathi suffered.

[Shankar]

I have read excerpts of his novel "zero degree", he's a pervert !! If you have doubts, you can check his website, there's a chapter, and you decide yourself what kind of a person this guy is.

[Sanjeevi]

Thiruvasagam & Brahmins
---------------------------------

A dialog between me and a audio shop owner (before 40 days)

i: How was sales of Thiruvasagam sir
o: Super sales, even after one month of release it is selling
i: It is a huge success
o: But we can't listen this in temple, Ayyars did not like this
i: i didn't know but it is very nice to hear and it give a sprit experience while listening without any disturbance
o: May be, but Ayyars blames this album


Thuklak Q & A section by Cho Ramaswamy

q: How is thiruvasagam.
a: There is no interest on this album. I feel it looks like a chiristian song.


A dialog between me and my friend (when i listening Thiruvasagam)

f: what is this
i: Thiruvasagam
f: IR is doing often like this and he is earning lot of money
i: He is not a money minded people. Tell if you know Raja otherwise not
f: But brahmins will ignore this.
i: who care about brahmins (with little angry)



Dear friends,

What do you think about this. Some of you could be a brahmine.

[Cinefan]

Sanjeevi,
I think it's baseless to generalize like this.Anything out-of-the-box will have resistance.Let's say,if IR reworks christian songs in the kanda Shasti kavacham or any other Hindu religious tune,will it will be welcomed with open arms?

Can anyone dream of meddling with quranic verses?

Those three brahmins were just expressing their opinion,no one has started any agitation against IR right?

So why crib&most importantly bring in their caste into it.Are you saying there are no Hindu's(belonging to diff caste)who have not liked it.

What about Kamal hassan,Sujatha,Bala Murali Krishna who have expressed their admiration for it?

Assuming the above mentioned ppl were saying good words for effect,

In this hub too myself,Shankar,tmrrmt,A_A,Jaiganesh are some of the brahmins who have liked TiO&we have no need to please IR :D

Stop this Brahmin bashing plz.

[Sanjeevi]

Sorry Cinefan

I like brahmins and I have gr8 respect to them. But some of them especially older generations don't like to come out their circles, IMHO. However, also it is common to all caste, all religion communities. BTW the last person is not a brahmin.

And another matters with tamil christian songs. I've listend many songs (veru vazhi illamal - a friendly comment don't take serious christian friends) during my college hostel life. I think, tamil christian songs has 80+% IRish always (heavily inspired by IR). So, some people may think TiO as like christian songs. It is not IR fault.

[Jacky]

What next Ashtotram in symphony? And if Brahmins refuse to use it in temples you will blame them? I am quite for Astotram, thiruvasagam, thirupavai and everything in symphony so that common ppl can decipher and enjoy it better but not in a place where religious niceties are at its highest.
If one blames the Brahmins for refusing them in temples, it only shows their ignorance. :lol: :lol:

[Cinefan]

Sorry Cinefan

I like brahmins and I have gr8 respect to them. But some of them especially older generations don't like to come out their circles, IMHO. However, also it is common to all caste, all religion communities. BTW the last person is not a brahmin.

And another matters with tamil christian songs. I've listend many songs (veru vazhi illamal) during my college hostel life. I think, tamil christian songs has 80+% IRish always (heavily inspired by IR). So, some people may think TiO as like christian songs. It is not IR fault.

Yup,I made a mistake on that one :oops:

Not just Brahmins,all ppl from the previous generation find it difficult to adapt to change.Who knows,we might face the same problems with our children. :D

[*]

Perceptions wont disappear easily. Dont make much of these stray observations guys.

[Sanjeevi]

Sorry Cinefan

I like brahmins and I have gr8 respect to them. But some of them especially older generations don't like to come out their circles, IMHO. However, also it is common to all caste, all religion communities. BTW the last person is not a brahmin.

And another matters with tamil christian songs. I've listend many songs (veru vazhi illamal) during my college hostel life. I think, tamil christian songs has 80+% IRish always (heavily inspired by IR). So, some people may think TiO as like christian songs. It is not IR fault.

Yup,I made a mistake on that one :oops:

Not just Brahmins,all ppl from the previous generation find it difficult to adapt to change.Who knows,we might face the same problems with our children. :D

exactly you told what i think

[Shankar]

sanjeevi,
Forget about my being a brahmin...I have already quoted an example of a temple (a very popular one at that) playing TiO every morning.
>>>>>>>>>
But some of them especially older generations don't like to come out their circles, IMHO.
<<<<<<<<<

It applies to every caste ? Old generation people, regardless of their caste might have differences with the current generation (that's the definition of the word 'generation' :-) ).

[thumburu]

Namadhu paarambariyathai sidhaikkaadha yendha oru pudhu muyarchikkum than muzhu adharavai tharugiradhu Kalki yendra "madisaar maami"[a pet dig] magazine.Adhanaal thaan TIO release functionai attai[IR flanked by Kamal and Rajini] padathil pottu gowravithadhu.TIO vai patri oru nalla article kooda yezhudhiyadhu. Idhai vida Brahmins kitta irundhu vera yenna angeekaaram vendum?

[rajdes]

I find this need for angeekaram from brahmins itself interesting. I dont understand what value that adds to the product? Does it help more sales? Does it help influence popular perception? Even if it did, how does it change the inherent quality of the product?

Or is it like a litmus test - do you guys like this work or not? Like the famous test set by a british minister for britishers of asian origin?

I dont think this discussion has a place here anyway.

[raja_fan]

Thuklak Q & A section by Cho Ramaswamy

q: How is thiruvasagam.
a: There is no interest on this album. I feel it looks like a chiristian song.

Cho is a very ardent fan of MSV..So this is expected from him.

[Shankar]

asking cho about music is as bad as asking Raja/msv about politics and asking jai akash about acting :-)

[Sanjeevi]

asking cho about music is as bad as asking Raja/msv about politics and asking jai akash about acting :-)

hello Shankar you are wrong IMHO.
IR has much political awarness as like you and me.

[*]

http://kosappettai.blogspot.com/2005/09/blog-post.html
:)