ARR "The Rising"

[vijayr]

"Really, if one is attempting to look for an "objective" dimension, what evidence is there but the opinions of others, along with sales figures where available? Aren't "technical" reviews equally contentious and divided? "

Sales figures or opinions of others dont go even a bit to influenece my opinion of the album, but thats just me. Thesales figures are skewed by several factors like the movie performance at BO, presence of a big star etc. Chandramukhi's audio was a hit, IMO, only because of the Rajni factor. Personally, it was an underwhelming album in all respects. I would'nt be misled by the chart positions either, which are sometimes manufactured.

" but then one would have to wonder why you'd want Rising to be a "hit"? Especially since you're not an ARR-fan and don't like the music all that much! "

for the simple reason that lesser MDs are having their sub-par music noticed a lot more because the films are doing well. If Rising does well Rahman would be re-energized and would probably work in a lot of projects both in HFM and TFM too. Thats just one reason. Another reason is though Rising is nowhere near being Rahman's best its relatively better than most of the crap Bollywood churns out. Third, my own sympathy factor for Rahman, for some of his better works like Bose not recognized, or works like Water(which Rahmans calls as one of his best) not finding the light of day at all. I hope its clear to you now. I need not be a Rahman fan or fanatic, to realize that he is still more talented than most out there and still continues to surprise me with albums like Bose/Swades. You seem to think that just because I speak out for him, I must immediately be a staunch Rahman fan. This has always been the problem here in DF. Discussions cannot go by without slotting the posters either into the IR or ARR camp. Its not like I worship Rahman. Its just that I hate the mediocre stuff of other MDs out there even more that I tend to favor Rahman by comparison. My heart will always be with the 60s-80s TFM.


"Only a few years ago it seemed reasonable rather than presumptuous to breathe the question, "Is Rahman the greatest ever?", and indeed it was tossed about in some media/forums (timesofindia for example). Would it be asked today, and if not, why not? With a succession of both high-profile and low-profile failures, I very much doubt it would be."

Well, you have already answered your question and made up your mind, so why discuss it? Secondly, what do you gain out of such a discussion. To me, it seems like you just get some sort of satisfaction claiming once every few weeks or so that Rahman isnt all that great, his recent albums havent been doing well at the BO and so on. Its like you are trying to re-assure yourself that Rahman isnt great.What good comes out of this kind of discussion? Instead time could be better spent on discussing musical aspects of Rahman songs vs other MDs and trying to analyze as to why certain Rahman songs did well or as to why he composed in a certain way and so on.

"Indeed, for all your disparaging of opinion, you refer in another post to the close-to-unanimous (not entirely true, since both sify and indiaglitz rave about it) panning of Anniyan. So you yourself are forced to resort to the opinions of others to buttress your argument. Would you be comfortable with me proposing that Anniyan is a m"

I only referred to them, I dont depend on those reviews, nor do I re-think my opinion based on those reviews. Yes, I would give credence to your thought of proclaiming Anniyan as a classic as long as you have atleast a few valid points/thoughts to back your claim.

" I'm interested in determining if the tide is turning away from Rahman, despite his best (or mediocre, as the case may be) efforts."

why? what do you gain in knowledge or otherwise out of such a discussion?Whats the purpose?

Anyways, If I were to answer, I would say I am not very sure. It seems like Rahman has been non-existent in TFM, but its just that he hasnt chosen to work there in a long time. But whereas in Hindi, despite his commercial failures he still continues to get prestigious projects. (Bajirao masthani? Another Amir film?) He still continues to get paid high. His songs like the recent Ah Aah still continue to top the charts as soon as they hit the market, irrespective of their quality. So, I would GUESS that he is still a force to reckon with. He might not be as dominant as he once was(like Sachin),and there are more Rahman-wannabes out there as alternatives compared to say 10 years back(like Sehwag, the Sachin wannabe) but just like the Indian cricket team, IFM still needs him.

IR is different-none of the above are happening to IR, he is close to retirement from TFM and doing what he does best in a non-filmi setting.

[alias]

Judge, you must be kidding. Thalapathy was a super hit. Well it did not go well in C centers as expecteed but A and B, it was a big hit. I still remembers that day when Talapathy was released and I was dying to get a ticket to see it in Udayam. I took a letter from AmirJaan (anyone remember this dude , who directed Siva and was KB assistant) and still could not get a ticket adn instead got Guna tickets. I had to wait for 50 days tto get tickets in counter. And u say it is flop :-)

[Music4Ever]

"And the it's-not-bad-it's-just-different argument is incorrect since other period albums by Rahman, like Zubeida and 1947-Earth have been highly acclaimed."

Maybe if the Rising album had come before Zubeida or 1947-Earth then it would have been highly acclaimed also, who knows. As far as I can see the quality of songs in each of these movies is comparable (along with those of Meenaxi and Bose). Tehzeeb, IMO is an exception; I consider some of the songs superb. Zubeida was not a musical hit, was it?

The way I see it is that after that initial shock listeners may have gotten used to the "Rahman style" and, unless he reinvents himself, will continue to give the same lukewarm response to his forthcoming albums.

"I'm interested in determining if the tide is turning away from Rahman, despite his best (or mediocre, as the case may be) efforts. And this can happen even if a minority thinks all the albums are masterpieces, just as the tide turned away from IR although the IR-cult continues to worship every recent album from him."

Most likely, yes, the tide is probably turning away from Rahman. It happened to IR, MSV and others before them, and ARR is no exception. His *best* time is probably up. When I say "best time" it is in the sense of how he attracted mass adulation. Now, however, there are many substitutes giving the approximate Rahman sound at cheaper rates. I believe that he will continue to give numbers of the same quality of the nineties but the people may not be as eager to lap them all up.

[Observer_Is_Back]

Maybe if the Rising album had come before Zubeida or 1947-Earth then it would have been highly acclaimed also, who knows. As far as I can see the quality of songs in each of these movies is comparable (along with those of Meenaxi and Bose). Tehzeeb, IMO is an exception; I consider some of the songs superb. Zubeida was not a musical hit, was it?

Let's not complicate matters beyond comprehension with speculative what-if scenarios when we've barely grasped what is. We know that Rising has been poorly received. If it would've worked better if released earlier, then it was the wrong music at the wrong time. It was a strategic mistake, and as such is Rahman's fault, because MD's are required to display a sensitive awareness to audiences' evolving sensibilities.

It's not about our personal opinions, I'm sure we've all already had the satisfaction of expressing those here or elsewhere. Now why not move on and consider where it went wrong in wowing audiences? What're listeners looking for nowadays and why?


The way I see it is that after that initial shock listeners may have gotten used to the "Rahman style" and, unless he reinvents himself, will continue to give the same lukewarm response to his forthcoming albums.

Most likely, yes, the tide is probably turning away from Rahman. It happened to IR, MSV and others before them, and ARR is no exception. His *best* time is probably up. When I say "best time" it is in the sense of how he attracted mass adulation. Now, however, there are many substitutes giving the approximate Rahman sound at cheaper rates. I believe that he will continue to give numbers of the same quality of the nineties but the people may not be as eager to lap them all up.

At last, a reasonable, common-sensical response! The ARR-defenders, whether fans or not, might choose to be ostriches, but, more neutrally, some of us can hopefully look dispassionately at the string of failures, including the ones we personally love, and read the signs. If we can have at least a few such people who're focussed on the music, and not the personalities, then that adds some useful grit, texture and tang to the syrupy excesses here.

[Music4Ever]

"Let's not complicate matters beyond comprehension with speculative what-if scenarios when we've barely grasped what is. We know that Rising has been poorly received. If it would've worked better if released earlier, then it was the wrong music at the wrong time. It was a strategic mistake, and as such is Rahman's fault, because MD's are required to display a sensitive awareness to audiences' evolving sensibilities. "

Speculation has relevance in light of my second paragraph where I specify "first shock" as one of the possible reasons. It is, then, not inconceivable to suppose that Rising in the mid nineties would have been considered a novel ARR attempt. My whole argument is predicated upon the temporal disadvantage of Rising against, say, 1947 Earth. Indeed, ARR's quality of music has not changed much, only peoples perceptions, reflected by their acceptance (or the lack thereof), of his music has changed, IMO.

Of course, audiences tastes do evolve from time to time, the top incumbent (MD) invariably being the first casualty. It is very tough to keep giving one hit after another for several years, which is why ARR probably said "escape" and stayed away for a while (he has indeed expressed his awe of film music declaring it as an ocean). It is safe to conclude that ARR's spell on the listeners (meaning the general music lover) is broken. HJ, ARR's close competitor, in the sense of having the highest likelihood of casting a similar spell (IMO, ofcourse, some think Yuvan) may sway the audience in the foreseeable future.

[Observer_Is_Back]

Sales figures or opinions of others dont go even a bit to influenece my opinion of the album, but thats just me.

Once again, it's not about personal opinions, it's about the big picture. And if you think that public success can be "manufactured", then no doubt Rahman's success in the past too was entirely manufactured.




for the simple reason that lesser MDs are having their sub-par music noticed a lot more because the films are doing well. If Rising does well Rahman would be re-energized and would probably work in a lot of projects both in HFM and TFM too. Thats just one reason. Another reason is though Rising is nowhere near being Rahman's best its relatively better than most of the crap Bollywood churns out. Third, my own sympathy factor for Rahman, for some of his better works like Bose not recognized, or works like Water(which Rahmans calls as one of his best) not finding the light of day at all. I hope its clear to you now.

It's clear enough, I just happen to think there's no dignity or honor in it. No strong-minded or honest person would be pleased with borrowed or parasitical success, even as compensation for previous and unjustified failures.


"I need not be a Rahman fan or fanatic, to realize that he is still more talented than most out there and still continues to surprise me with albums like Bose/Swades. You seem to think that just because I speak out for him, I must immediately be a staunch Rahman fan. This has always been the problem here in DF. "

Where have I said that you're a staunch Rahman-fan? Please quote back that part to me. When I refer to ARR-fans why do you assume that I'm clubbing you with them? Let's move past this please.



"Well, you have already answered your question and made up your mind, so why discuss it? Secondly, what do you gain out of such a discussion."

What does one "gain" out of any discussion? Why do you indulge in posting praises of Rahman's albums, or hoping for their success? What do you gain from it? Ultimately, discussion is a good-in-itself, and forms the foundation of a democratic society or forum. The "why discuss" question seems suspiciously like a threat to silence all dissent, and I vow to fight it to my last breath.


"To me, it seems like you just get some sort of satisfaction claiming once every few weeks or so that Rahman isnt all that great, his recent albums havent been doing well at the BO and so on."

And you don't get any "satisfaction" from your posts lauding Rahman, or scorning IR/YSR?



"Its like you are trying to re-assure yourself that Rahman isnt great.What good comes out of this kind of discussion? Instead time could be better spent on discussing musical aspects of Rahman songs vs other MDs and trying to analyze as to why certain Rahman songs did well or as to why he composed in a certain way and so on."

How is it that you get to set the agenda for discussions, and I don't?



"I only referred to them, I dont depend on those reviews, nor do I re-think my opinion based on those reviews. Yes, I would give credence to your thought of proclaiming Anniyan as a classic as long as you have atleast a few valid points/thoughts to back your claim."

And why, if I did claim that Anniyan is a masterpiece, would I care about your "credence"? Personal opinion is inarguable. I'm not discussing personal opinions.


"why? what do you gain in knowledge or otherwise out of such a discussion?Whats the purpose?"

See above for comments on democracy.


"Anyways, If I were to answer, I would say I am not very sure. It seems like Rahman has been non-existent in TFM, but its just that he hasnt chosen to work there in a long time. But whereas in Hindi, despite his commercial failures he still continues to get prestigious projects. (Bajirao masthani? Another Amir film?)"

Why bother to reply to a question you consider purposeless? And no, Bajirao is at the moment a pipe-dream of the gossip columnists. Rang De Basanti, yes, is a forthcoming Aamir-Rahman movie, but it was signed long ago, and future Aamir movies with Yashraj and Vishal Bhardwaj will not have Rahman.


"He still continues to get paid high. His songs like the recent Ah Aah still continue to top the charts as soon as they hit the market, irrespective of their quality."

Yes, Aa Aah has topped charts, it would be a mockery if it didn't, given Surya's canny publicity campaign, but no records have been broken, no Boys-like craze has been generated, and the consensus appears to be that 50% of the songs of the album don't work.



"IR is different-none of the above are happening to IR, he is close to retirement from TFM and doing what he does best in a non-filmi setting.

I have no idea what you mean here. Why is IR "different"? I suppose everyone is different in a way, but I was pointing to the specific phenomenon of eclipse that several "geniuses" have been afflicted by. IR happens to be one of them.

[Observer_Is_Back]

Speculation has relevance in light of my second paragraph where I specify "first shock" as one of the possible reasons. It is, then, not inconceivable to suppose that Rising in the mid nineties would have been considered a novel ARR attempt. My whole argument is predicated upon the temporal disadvantage of Rising against, say, 1947 Earth. Indeed, ARR's quality of music has not changed much, only peoples perceptions, reflected by their acceptance (or the lack thereof), of his music has changed, IMO.

And my argument is that "temporal disadvantages" are precisely the preserve of the best MD's. There's little use saying, for example, that IR's recent albums would've done excellently if released in the 80's. I don't deny that, but the fact that they weren't fashioned to suit the tenor of the times is, I claim, their main failing. (Of course, IR-fans regard it as a strength!).

Indeed, I've been for a long time toying with the thought that today the real ingredient, the raw material so to speak, that the best MD's are working on and with is audience expectations. At this point, music-making technology is advanced enough that almost anyone can come up with a half-decent song, the real challenge lies in how sensitively the MD keeps a few steps ahead of the audience, somehow both surprising them yet offering certain expected satisfactions. It's almost entirely a mind-game at this point.


Of course, audiences tastes do evolve from time to time, the top incumbent (MD) invariably being the first casualty. It is very tough to keep giving one hit after another for several years, which is why ARR probably said "escape" and stayed away for a while (he has indeed expressed his awe of film music declaring it as an ocean). It is safe to conclude that ARR's spell on the listeners (meaning the general music lover) is broken. HJ, ARR's close competitor, in the sense of having the highest likelihood of casting a similar spell (IMO, ofcourse, some think Yuvan) may sway the audience in the foreseeable future.

I agree with this of course, except that I'd like to add the names of Vishal-Shekhar, Pritam and Amar Mohile to that list. The first two names have had very big successes recently, specifically musical successes mind you. And Amar Mohile was highly praised for his Sarkar score.

[Music4Ever]

"At this point, music-making technology is advanced enough that almost anyone can come up with a half-decent song, the real challenge lies in how sensitively the MD keeps a few steps ahead of the audience, somehow both surprising them yet offering certain expected satisfactions. It's almost entirely a mind-game at this point."

What you call "mind-game", I call "casting a spell", in which the audience is usually "hoodwinked" into accepting a new flavor. They invariably come out of it eventually, only to be again "hoodwinked" by a new one who is able to deliver what they want (trendy stuff) at that point of time. It is almost impossible for a MD to keep reinventing himself all the time, and somewhat harsh too when the same quality is not expected from other film personnel. HJ's MinnalE was a smashing success but I doubt if he has lived up to those high initial expectations.

One may, however, equally well advocate a strong case for staying away from discussing who is best according to current taste, which at best is fleeting.

"I agree with this of course, except that I'd like to add the names of Vishal-Shekhar, Pritam and Amar Mohile to that list. The first two names have had very big successes recently, specifically musical successes mind you. And Amar Mohile was highly praised for his Sarkar score."

It's been a while since I listened to Hindi albums, so I am going to stay away from this topic.

[dude]

We have had predictions of Rahman-killers for a very long time. Do you remember these MDs that burst into the music scene: Ranjit Barrot (VIP), Suresh Peters(some sarat kumar movie), Mahesh(Nammavar), Jerry-Someone(Thotta sinungi), etc.

More recently, there are these MDs like HJ, Pravin Mani, Joshua Shridhar, Jassie Gift whom everyone has called the next ARR or ARR-killer, and what not.

Even in the north, Vishal, Sandeep Chowta, etc. were intorduced as ARR-ousters. And we also have this guy, Ismail Durbar who himself claims that he is better than ARR. Oh well...

But I agree, it is inevitable that ARR will be ousted some day. But I am reserving my judgement until that new MD comes along...

[MADDY]

so wat's ur bottomline observer??? u dunt want ARR to be credited for mangal's success, isn't it??? i dunt think apart from ARR fans, anybody is gonna credit him for this success......so chillax and ARR will not take credit for any success in the future as well.......he has the right to take criticisms for failures only..... :D

go and get some sleep buddy :D

[Shankar]

so wat's ur bottomline observer??? u dunt want ARR to be credited for mangal's success, isn't it??? i dunt think apart from ARR fans, anybody is gonna credit him for this success......so chillax and ARR will not take credit for any success in the future as well.......he has the right to take criticisms for failures only..... :D

go and get some sleep buddy :D

But who said Mangal is a success :rotfl:

[vijayr]

"Once again, it's not about personal opinions, it's about the big picture"

I dont understand what "big picture" you are talking about. Just the top 10 on Sun TV is it? Guess what, Aah aah is there right at the top.And "manmadha raasa", "Oh Podu" were there too not long time back. Have you "analyzed" as to what made those songs great musical successes? :-)

"It's clear enough, I just happen to think there's no dignity or honor in it. No strong-minded or honest person would be pleased with borrowed or parasitical success, even as compensation for previous and unjustified failures. "

Rahman is not going to depend on Rising's commercial success. Nor is he any parasite. Its me, as someone who has liked some of his past works that havent gotten the acclaim they should have in my opinion, wishing that Rahman get some attention through Rising. I wouldnt mind, especially when I see underwhelming albums like Anniyan and Chandramukhi get the attention because of the stars. Its MY wish-it has nothing to do with Rahman himself. Please dont confuse the two.

"And why, if I did claim that Anniyan is a masterpiece, would I care about your "credence"? Personal opinion is inarguable. I'm not discussing personal opinions. '

well then why did you ask me the question about Anniyan in the first place?Here is your question
"Would you be comfortable with me proposing that Anniyan is a masterpiece based on my own "yardsticks" and dismissing all the reviews you cite as mere "uneducated opinion"? "

And I said Yes, as long as I find reasonable points in your review.

"Yes, Aa Aah has topped charts, it would be a mockery if it didn't, given Surya's canny publicity campaign, but no records have been broken, no Boys-like craze has been generated, and the consensus appears to be that 50% of the songs of the album don't work. '

Boys-like craze hasnt been generated by anyone else either. And if Surya is to be credited for Ah Aaah's opening then I could extend it to most other musical hits this year too. I could say only movies that have done well or have had decent directors/banners supporting them have been musically chartbusters and hence most of the credit in those cases should go to the director or advertising too, right?

"and the consensus appears to be that 50% of the songs of the album don't work."

whose consensus? As long as the album stays at the top of the charts thats what matters to you right? Hasnt that been your only yardstick to criticize some of Rahman's recent works? Well, looks like Rahman needs to be just 70% of himself to hit the top of the charts. That speaks of his competition(or lack of it) in TFM at the present. But of course you would credit it to the director and not Rahman in this case.And by the same "consensus" that you are referring to, Bose was unniversally praised. Its no surprise then, that I didnt see you around much talking about Bose.

"Where have I said that you're a staunch Rahman-fan? Please quote back that part to me. When I refer to ARR-fans why do you assume that I'm clubbing you with them? Let's move past this please. "

why are you referring to ARR-fans repeatedly when you are talking to me then? Stop this and we'll then move past it.

"And you don't get any "satisfaction" from your posts lauding Rahman, or scorning IR/YSR? "

This is what I am talking about. Why would you assume that I scorn IR and laud ARR all the time? You are slotting me into the ARR-camp, without saying as much. I have spent more time in this forum lauding IR's works and have spent an equal amount of time criticizIng Rahman's works as well.I just consider ARR to be a better MD than his counterparts in both HFM and TFM currently, however good or bad ARR maybe in his present form.Thats just my musical assessment -if that makes me a fanatic or a ARR camp flag-bearer then I cant help it. By the same token, can I say that you are fanatically against ARR? After all, fanaticism works both ways. Who knows? Maybe you are a Harris Jayaraj/YSR fan pretending to analyze what's wrong apparently with Rahman's music these days. We have seen such characters before in TFMDF here. Lets give each other the benefit of the doubt and move on.

"Why do you indulge in posting praises of Rahman's albums, or hoping for their success? What do you gain from it?"

That wasnt a discussion. That was a single post from me, as someone who has enjoyed some of Rahman's music and hence would'nt mind him getting some attention out of a movie's success, even if Rahman himself could care less. I just posted my thoughts/wishes in this thread. I didnt aim to make a discussion out of it. But apparently you did. You could have left it alone as someone else's wish/prefernce but instead responded and made a "discussion" out of it, where nothing new was discussed.

"I have no idea what you mean here. Why is IR "different"?'

Read the previous lines of that post for the contextual connection.

":The "why discuss" question seems suspiciously like a threat to silence all dissent, and I vow to fight it to my last breath. "

well, where is the "discussion" that you have mentioned? All I see you doing is finding an opportunity to bash Rahman's recent works and quoting box-office figures everytime. And when the box-office figures indicate Rahman's recent TFM album is at the top you attribute it to marketing and hype. THats suspiciously close to a typical HJ/YSR's fan's behaviour in this forum.(how do you feel now, being slotted? :-))

Like Music4ever, no MD can continuously throughout their career make the huge strides that they would have made in their early years. Its true for MSV,IR,ARR etc. Its a regular phenomenon we have seen. Once your style has been exposed enough, there are going to be copycats who are going to latch on to your style. Deva did that with IR briefly in the mid-90s. HJ is doing it now to a certain extent, with ARR. Its unfair to expect a 1995-Rahman from a 2005-Rahman.
No MD in the past has created a bigger trend in their 10th or 12th year than they did in their first 3 or 4 years. But Rahman isnt done yet. He isnt even 40.He has a string of films in the pipeline. Its not like he is sitting at home worried about his next assignment.

Also,another thing is no one amonst the current new crop of MDs have been able to create any big trends or make huge strides that Rahman/IR etc.accomplished in their early years.In fact Rahman took it a step further and made huge strides in HFM too.Has any current MD created such an impact? You tell me.Rahman might feel that to survive in such a competition, he need'nt rake his brains to come up with a Boys-kinda album every 6 months.Who can blame him? His average effort(IMO) in Aah Aaah is at the top, despite what you think.

[MADDY]

"But who said Mangal is a success "

the world says so(except IR fans).........now tell me, Anniyan was declared a hit as soon as it recovered the money, if the same logic is applied Mangal pandey has already recovered its cost and is going very strong in UK,US and in Mumbai where again there is a long weekend(raksha bandhan,saturday,sunday)......so mangal pandey is set to double its profits........concentrate on ONOK, shankar instead of making smart alecky comments in a discussion that least means to u......

[Jacky]

[tscii:1569570c0a]Uttar Pradesh residents may have objected to 'Mangal Pandey -- The Rising' but cinema-lovers all over the country have taken the film well. So claims, INOX Leisure Limited, who have invested in this film and also have been screening it in their various multiplexes spread across the country.

The spectacular opening of 'Mangal Pandey – The Rising' on August 12, last week, has taken Bollywood to new heights. Released simultaneously across the globe, the film is off to a flying start. Despite mixed reviews from critics, 'Mangal Pandey – The Rising', is taking the International market by storm, claims a press release by INOX.

In the U.S., the film has overtaken the other 4 Hollywood openers of the weekend with a per-screen average of $8,429. This average is better than recently released big films like Wedding Crashers ($3,779), Charlie and the Chocolate Factory ($2,243) and War of The Worlds ($1,610).

In the U.K., the film has emerged the biggest Bollywood opener of 2005. The opening of 'Mangal Pandey - The Rising' is, in fact, higher than the combined openings of the last three Aamir Khan starrers in U.K.: Dil Chahta Hai [£57,600], Lagaan [£91,281] and Mela [£58,614]. The first 3 days’ gross collections of 'Mangal Pandey - The Rising' from the U.S. and U.K. markets together has crossed the magic figure of Rs 4 crores.

In India too, the film’s Rs 10 crore-plus collection over the 4-day weekend has broken all previous box office records. With the elements of production and distribution competently handled by the best in the industry, the final countdown was aided by co-producers INOX Leisure Ltd, says a press note released here.

The leading National multiplex chain that has made its debut into film production with this multi-million dollar film, conceptualized, planned and executed an extensive promotional campaign through its 7 multiplexes spread across 6 cities in the country.

According to Shrikant Hazare, Vice President, Marketing, INOX Leisure Ltd., “Our investment of time, money and efforts into the marketing of this film is repaying us with well-earned dividends. Most importantly, the response from our patrons has been very positive. We are even extending some of our promotions and collectibles to the next weekend. The norm is that each movie promotion only runs for the first weekend. But Mangal Pandey is definitely an exception to the rule.”

One of the most expensive films made in Bollywood, 'Mangal Pandey-The Rising' has got off with a bang. The sustained performance over the extended weekend in India and the continuing box office success internationally, has proved that the film has succeeded in living up to the pre-release anticipation. With such a fantastic opening, the film is sure to leave its mark on Bollywood history, adds the press note.



http://www.daijiworld.com/news/news_disp.asp?n_id=13801&n_tit=Goa%3A+Criticism+apart%2C+Mangal+Pandey+Movi e's+Collections+are+Rising![/tscii:1569570c0a]

[Shankar]

maddy,
http://us.rediff.com/movies/2005/aug/17mangal.htm

Do you think these guys are lying ?

[Shankar]

If you believe bobby bedi's words, god save you :-)

[Shankar]

maddy,
did you see what subhash.k.jha had to say about those lies by ketan mehta ?? I'm sure you wud turn a blind eye....

[Shankar]

>>>>>>>>>
concentrate on ONOK, shankar instead of making smart alecky comments in a discussion that least means to u....
<<<<<<<<<<

I don't give a damn about ONOK...When did *you* become the moderator of this forum ? Who are you to decide which forum i should visit or avoid ?

I do have to come here to respond to some smarta**es...

[united07]

it's a patriotic movie thread...but there's no peace in here....

ingayum oru porattum nadathumma!...ade kadavulle!

[Shankar]

united07,
>>>>>>>
it's a patriotic movie thread...
<<<<<<<

That would make another interesting discussion...Mangal was "made" a patriot by some people...We can go the misc section if you want to discuss th details.

[sureshmehcnit]

Review on Mangal Pandey Background Score

http://ursmusically.blogspot.com/2005/08/mangal-pandey-background-score-review.html

[MADDY]

maddy,
did you see what subhash.k.jha had to say about those lies by ketan mehta ?? I'm sure you wud turn a blind eye....

then u say bobby bedi and ketan mehta lie and subash.k.jha only tells truth....... :D

[MADDY]

>>>>>>>>>
concentrate on ONOK, shankar instead of making smart alecky comments in a discussion that least means to u....
<<<<<<<<<<

I don't give a damn about ONOK...When did *you* become the moderator of this forum ? Who are you to decide which forum i should visit or avoid ?

I do have to come here to respond to some smarta**es...

y do IR fans always resort to foul language and personal attacks....i was so decent in my post referring u....but u being so elder to me talk like this???

and i'm not the mod, but when u come with an intention to disturb our views then it makes it imperative for me to air my views abt ur saddistic behaviour.......

[njv]

y do IR fans always resort to foul language and personal attacks
Age factor :lol: Maddy, just keep ignoring them. Dinesh is doing a good job on that. Its just you and alias sometime couldnt control yourself. Take my word, just keep quite for couple of weeks.

You need two hands to clap!

[njv]

Do you remember these MDs that burst into the music scene: Mahesh(Nammavar)

But I agree, it is inevitable that ARR will be ousted some day. But I am reserving my judgement until that new MD comes along...

Mahesh died after couple of assignments after nammavar, I believe due to cancer. Poor guy. Nammavar songs were pretty good.

ARR can not be ousted at all. Only the taste of poeple will change. I am thinking with new set of directors and MDs coming up, ARR will find it difficult in TFM in next 5 years in TFM and 10 years in HFM. Hopefully by then he will have more international fame that he dont have to bother TFM/HFM anymore.

[thumburu]

Finally saw "The Rising" and the experience was anything but hair raising :( . Neither the movie nor the music rises above mediocrity for all the hype and hooplah around it . Forget the gross distortion of history, the movie lacks even the visual verve . Looks like ARR desperately needs MR to bring something good from him.

[alias]

Thumburu, I dont know where you watched whether in Thiruthu VCD or Big screen. But watching in big screen was an a really good experience. It is a good movie, well there is distortion of history like every reviewer talks but since there is little information about Mangal Pandey in our history books, they have to give little cinema dimension to this movie. So they have added few incidents to that. I would say no one would have done better job than the current crew of Bobby Bedi.

[Shankar]

maddy,
check your pm

[Shankar]

njv,
>>>>
age factor Laughing Maddy,
<<<<<

Are you sure what you're talking about :-)

[alwarpet_andavan]

The songs in the movie can be better enjoyed when watched in the movie.. especially the rousing start ("Mangal mangal") and ending....(listening to it in a loop :))
RR was good, though not great.....

[alias]

For all those who said Rising is flop or average, this is slap on their face. Rising is Super Duper Hit in India and overseas. Long Live Aamir, ARR and the entire team of Rising.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/film/4179770.stm

[ezy0265]

Has anyone got any idea about ARR's 3rd Dimension World Tour. Is it going to be predominantly a hindi show. Has the tour begun elsewhere yet?

Me and my freinds are planning to go, but they are wondering if it is going to be a hindi show? We are Tamilians, nothing against his hindi songs.

The tickets are high priced and decent seats are going for S$150 and the best seats for S$500. Is it going to be worth it? If it is not then I have to bear their grunt!!! Cos I am going to book tickets for all.

[Nerd]

http://us.rediff.com/movies/2005/aug/26raja.htm


the lesser said about A R Rahman's sleepily composed soundtrack, the better.

:roll:

[MrJudge]

http://us.rediff.com/movies/2005/aug/26raja.htm


the lesser said about A R Rahman's sleepily composed soundtrack, the better.

:roll:

Most of his fans reviewed the album and said mind blowing stuff from tb. But i think there are people not to think so...Well, that is his opinion. I am expecting replies from his fans something similar to... what this reviewer knows about music?, rediff is against arr!, etc.

[united07]

MrJudge,

it's just like how some some syncronized bird chirping sounds like a master piece for some, and sounds...just like a bird chirping to others....

:lol:

[alwarpet_andavan]

http://tinyurl.com/8ekyf

[alias]

Judge, everyone does not have similiar taste. Raja Sen seems to be against Mangal Pandey movie itself (probably for portraying Mangal as a drunkard and womenisier as many claim). So there is little hope that he will talk good about music.

[MrJudge]

For all those who said Rising is flop or average, this is slap on their face. Rising is Super Duper Hit in India and overseas. Long Live Aamir, ARR and the entire team of Rising.

Be ready to get slapped on both sides of your face. I read in BW mag and today's BL newspaper both saying that the movie is a flop and will not make money at BO!

So the list goes on and on and on and.....

[alias]

Judge, I think your dreams will not come true since it has been declareed a hit by the trade pundits. For more information visit indiafm.com and read box office review from Taran Adarsh (who is chief in making BOX office results :-)) and KARIYEA POSIKOO :lol:

[muzammil84]

Mangal Pandey - The Rising - Week 3
Mumbai - 37,53,117

Ahmedabad - 7,72,396

Jamnagar - 2,30,580

Bhavnagar - 1,10,200

Nasik - 95,747 (27 sh.)

Delhi - 28,62,522

Noida - 3,58,398

Kaushambi - 1,79,140

Gurgaon - 6,09,093

Ghaziabad - 60,775

Moradabad - 32,000

Aligarh - 52,000

Dehradun - 1,34,988

Bulandshehar - 17,000

Faridabad - 2,21,950

Bhilai - 54,503

Bangalore - 5,34,922 (56 sh.)

Chennai - 5,94,469

(Average per print:1,36,844)


woooooow really rocking the mangel pandy

[MrJudge]

"Mangal Pandey drops heavily again and the film may not hit the 30 crore mark as the film came of many screens at the end of the third week.The third week had over 300 prints in play while the fourth week will have less than 150."

Source: BOX OFFICE UPDATE-3rd September 14.00 IST

Running at 150 places only after 3 weeks??? did I hear outstanding success in india at bbc website? Hmmm, that's interesting :)

[alias]

Dude, thought it dropped in 3rd week, from the collection it has collected 24 crores in 3 weeks and this just includes India. In overseas it is a superhit which means it collected more than Indian market. Does this interest you? hmmmmmm.

[app_engine]

"The review, in fact, is good; it's only that it says the film has too many songs and too much masala. Had there been no songs, the film's message would have come across more clearly."

Interview with Aamir:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1226288.cms

[alias]

That interview is by Farrukh Dhondy not Aamir because Aamir has not written the story of Mangal Pandey.

[sureshmehcnit]

Check out my Mangal Pandey Background Score Review

http://ursmusically.blogspot.com/2005/08/mangal-pandey-background-score-review.html

[MrJudge]

Dude, thought it dropped in 3rd week, from the collection it has collected 24 crores in 3 weeks and this just includes India. In overseas it is a superhit which means it collected more than Indian market. Does this interest you? hmmmmmm.

Did I hear super duper hit in India and abroad? It is even struggling to recollect its investment, get real.

[MADDY]

Mr.Judge- Dass,OKK,KNM r all big audio flops....wat rights do u have to spit on ARR & us????they have all bitten the dust, YSR is literally losing his market with ARR,sorry,TB grabbing all plum projects.....

DONT THROW STONES WHILE SITTING IN A GLASS HOUSE-Sunil Gavaskar to Steve waugh on chucking issue......i think it suits perfectly to u nattamai......u can start speaking when YSR delivers a hit....till then close all ur , i need not say.......

for a fact, movies today earn money b4 release, how???
They get sponsors using their movie for their products like TVS,Titan and many other co. using MP for their promos which fetched around 10 crores,
overseas business- MP is still 13th in UK and 27th in US........
opening -MP was the best opening recorded in history of hindi movies, recovering 2/3 rds of cost within 4 days of release.....

[MrJudge]

Mr.Judge- Dass,OKK,KNM r all big audio flops....wat rights do u have to spit on ARR & us????they have all bitten the dust, YSR is literally losing his market with ARR,sorry,TB grabbing all plum projects.....

DONT THROW STONES WHILE SITTING IN A GLASS HOUSE-Sunil Gavaskar to Steve waugh on chucking issue......i think it suits perfectly to u nattamai......u can start speaking when YSR delivers a hit....till then close all ur , i need not say.......

for a fact, movies today earn money b4 release, how???
They get sponsors using their movie for their products like TVS,Titan and many other co. using MP for their promos which fetched around 10 crores,
overseas business- MP is still 13th in UK and 27th in US........
opening -MP was the best opening recorded in history of hindi movies, recovering 2/3 rds of cost within 4 days of release.....

I can very well understand your anger. This is not a thread to compare YSR's movies with MP. We can do that in current topics (KNM, Gajini ..Aah), can we just stick with "The falling" here?

Please tell me how much the distributors get their share from the promos you have listed? I heard that even the album failed miserably? is it true? or it is doing outstanding business only in Bombay like you always claim? hahaha

[IsaiRasigan]

" YSR is literally losing his market with ARR,sorry,TB grabbing all plum projects..... " ........ yeah all the plum/plump projects may go to ARR but his output still sucks

[Music4Ever]

I wonder whether Observer_is_back will make a repeat appearance. Here I am quoting from one of his earlier posts:

Begin Quote

I agree with this of course, except that I'd like to add the names of Vishal-Shekhar, Pritam and Amar Mohile to that list. The first two names have had very big successes recently, specifically musical successes mind you. And Amar Mohile was highly praised for his Sarkar score.

End Quote

At the time our discussion was going on, I was unaware of Vishal-Shekar, Pritam etc. Recently, however, I happened to listen to a number in Salaam namaste which goes My Dil goes mmmmmmmm, composed by Vishal-Shekar. This song was Number 1 in Hindi countdown recently, and is an Anu Malik/HJ kinda number -- catchy at first but stale after a few listens. The song reminds one of many old numbers, which one cannot nail down immediately. However, listen to a tamil number in Prabhu Deva's Alaudin that goes Goyyaakka or something. The mmmm part of the above hindi number is exactly like the Goyaakka number. Also listen to ARR's Alley alley alley in One two ka Four more closely and you will be able to discern some resemblance. The less said about Pritam the better, if one is to go by several recent reports on his penchant to lift left right and center from various sources.

To summarize, one of the MDs is already looking stale and the other is a candidate for plagiarism allegations. And these are the kinds of MDs who are produced as alternatives to ARR!

I must admit that I have not yet listened to much of Vishal-Shekar save the above mentioned song, so it may be the case that he is really good. However, one would expect him to produce better (read as innovative) numbers early in his career. And what do we have except some stale number climbing to the top of the charts. ARR, leave alone the genius and legend IR, is anyday better.

[Observer_Is_Back]

Sigh! Glad to be remembered, less happy about the small-minded attacks on anything and anyone that poses a threat.

What are your arguments? Plagiarism? As always, it's "inspiration" if your god does it, copying if others do it. Early in Rahman's career, his Pakaadhe from Gentleman betrayed an uncanny resemblance to Osibisa's Kilele, to cite just one example; where were you then?

Staleness? It's your prerogative to feel such a thing, and to assert it whenever and wherever you can. But that won't affect in the slightest the fact that Salaam Namaste has been hugely appreciated, and marks yet another milestone in Vishal-Shekhar's scorching race to the top.

Given that you appear to be unaware that Vishal-Shekhar are a composing duo, not a single person, why not relax your negativity and watch how far they go? This link might help: http://tinyurl.com/eyhp8

Here's a link to Pritam addressing the plagiarism allegations:
http://www.indiafm.com/features/2005/10/06/735/


Oh, yes, about my "repeat appearances" - I'm always around, but my policy dictates that I speak up only when I have something to say.

Have fun,
Observer.

[Music4Ever]

I think I have unwittingly offended your sensibilities. So that our future discussion will always be mutually respectful, I offer my apologies for causing any unintended offence. However, when you talked about the two hindi MDs, you raised my expectations about them. When I heard the chart topper by Vishal-Shekar (The fact that they are two instead of one is not germane to the topic; if at all it is, it strengthens my case that two instead of one should have created something more remarkable than that number.), I was puzzled why this kind of song should receive rave ratings. I thought it is a quintessential Annu Malik kinda number and there was nothing special about it. Indeed, Annu Malik churns out such numbers dime a dozen every year. And then I realized that the catchy part is essentially used in at least one other song (incidentally a tamil one). It may be the case that the MD genuinely created it but then that begs the question whether the number is anymore innovative. Especially when little known MDs produce comparably good tunes (If My dil goes mmmmmm is good so is Goyakka, IMO). Isn't innovation very important for someone who is being introduced as an alternative to other great and established MDs? Vishal-Shekar may be making their "scorching" way up the ladder but so did Bappi Lahiri in the late seventies and early eighties. So what? How good are they really? We will have to wait and see.
As for ARR reproducing the Osibisa number, IIRC that number may have been a chart topper, but other numbers in that movie were stunningly innovative and trendy. Even today "en veetu thottathil" is a nice benchmark for a carnatic tamil melody. On the other hand, "Ottagatha kattikko" was remarkably different in orchestration and tune, IMO. In every sense of the word Rahman was setting a trend in tamil (and Hindi as well).