About ICSE Syllabus in India... [Archive]

lordstanher

4th June 2005, 08:12 AM

Care to enlighten the rest of us, Diaspora Indians on the merits and demerits of your education system???

"your" education system?? Um......I thot u were originally from India too....? :?

Please start on the very 1st year if you could? Like how many options are there in terms of state sponsored education???

Umm......sorry I didn't quite get the qsn.- afa as I'm aware all subjects in State syllabus r compulsory from 1st -10th standard....the only options I'm aware of (tat too in AP) r choosing language subjects- 1st lang. Hindi or Telugu, 2nd lang. Telugu or Special English (which I reckon is not as tough as the eng. literature we had in ICSE).....

Do private schools have a separate syllabus???

Afa as I'm aware, all schools whether Govt. or private, hav to follow the same syllabus they r registered with, be it ICSE/CBSE/SSC.

What is CBSE, ICSE and SSC???? How do they differ from each other?????

CBSE = Central Board of Secondary Education
ICSE = Indian Council for Secondary Education
SSC = Secondary School certificate (in my parents' time it was known as SSLC, L = leaving)

CBSE & ICSE r both central (Delhi-based) boards......the public exam at the end of 10th is conducted by them....SSC is a State Govt. run board....it provides the option of English Medium as well as local lang. unlike the first 2.......The syllabus of all the 3 boards varies.....
oh yea, forgot one more thing- CBSE has their sec. education upto 12th class, in ICSE/SSC its only upto 10th.....altho I was told tat ICSE 10th passed students can now continue upto 12th (which is known as ISC?)

Please don't look at my queries as tiresome as I'm genuinely interested! :D

Not at all! I'm in fact impressed tat a non-India based person is genuinely interested in our education system when many of our native ppl. think otherwise of it! :D
I hope I've been able to provide sufficient info. to ur queries....? If not do feel free for more clarification..... :)

lordstanher

4th June 2005, 08:16 AM

Stanher, which state did you mean when you said SSC? I think the threadstarter meant Karnataka, I answered for TN and you meant AP!

Yea sorry, I guess I was replying based on my knowledge of AP-based SSC schools! :lol:
So don't SSC schools in TN/other states hav public exam after 7th??
And btw, um....I thot ur based in B'bay?

hehehewalrus

4th June 2005, 08:25 AM

the only options I'm aware of (tat too in AP) r choosing language subjects- 1st lang. Hindi or Telugu, 2nd lang. Telugu or Special English (which I reckon is not as tough as the eng. literature we had in ICSE).....
well in TN, I got thru my entire schooling without learning a single indian language. So you see, the language policies differ from state to state.

Do private schools have a separate syllabus???

Afa as I'm aware, all schools whether Govt. or private, hav to follow the same syllabus they r registered with, be it ICSE/CBSE/SSC.
And in TN, private schools have a syllabi of their own!

Not at all! I'm in fact impressed tat a non-India based person is genuinely interested in our education system when many of our native ppl. think otherwise of it! :D
Nobody contests the fact that it is damn good, I'd say the schooling syllabi is among the world's top actually(for science/engg). The messy thing is that its not a flexible one given the disparity in standards of the different boards. You will ruin urself if you switch from one to other. And I dont foresee a homogenous system for the country considering the diversities of cultures.

And btw, um....I thot ur based in B'bay?
did schooling in TN, latter life was all over in cosmo environments

nirosha sen

4th June 2005, 10:23 AM

Okay Lord - to your query abt me? I'm 4th generation Malaysian Indian, Pa!! Only been to India 3x!! Married to someone who still has a big part of his life left in India!

Indian education has left me always with so many questions but had been too flummoxed to ask further, actually!! In fact, from both your answers, I'm still mystified!!

In M'sia, there is only a uniform syllabus available for all secondary schools!! But honestly, India's system fascinates me!! How do they tie up, by the time you hit college or unversity????? Do institutes of higher learning accept all the above pre-U qualifications or do they set other criteria????

Delhi-based curriculum is what??? Only English medium????? Throughout the 12 years of school?????

Walrus - TN sounds incredibly flexible, Pa!! Do they really allow you to breeze thru school without ever requiring an Indian Lang. as 2nd or 3rd lang.????

My son is still young. Only 13, but yeah, I wouldn't mind scouting around a system, that nurtures him better, than what he gets here, though :(

lordstanher

4th June 2005, 12:31 PM

well in TN, I got thru my entire schooling without learning a single indian language.

Wow......'wish I'd studied there......wud've been as lucky! :wink: :D
Btw, u studied in SSC (State) syllabus rite??
Neways, I guess atleast this eliminates my earlier opinion tat schools in TN r very particular abt including Tamil in their syllabus! :wink:

And in TN, private schools have a syllabi of their own!

U mean schools of all boards or only SSC??

Nobody contests the fact that it is damn good, I'd say the schooling syllabi is among the world's top actually(for science/engg).

Hmm......on a not-too-related note, best thing I like abt our schools is the discipline they emphasise on! :wink:
Like for eg. showing mandatory respect for the teachers by wishing them whenever they walk in/out of the class, even if they just happen to drop in for a min., standing up while talking to them etc.......quite an astounding contrast to our colleges & Univs. (Govt. as well as private!)...... :D

The messy thing is that its not a flexible one given the disparity in standards of the different boards. You will ruin urself if you switch from one to other.

Quite true. Esp. got to avoid switching over from SSC to ICSE after 7th, 'cos the latter had a continuous syllabus in most of the subjects covering 3 successive yrs (8th- 10th)......so if a student decided to join an ICSE school in say 9th or 10th, they'd be in trouble as they wud've missed the entire portion in the previous year/s, which wud ultimately appear for the 10th board exams!
I think ICSE realised tat as I rem. during my time (circa 8-10 yrs ago!) in our school they'd thankfully 'downsized' the syllabus to include only portion from 9th to 10th, instead of 8th onwards! *phew*

And I dont foresee a homogenous system for the country considering the diversities of cultures.

Right again! Esp. when it comes to languages!
I had a hell of a time when my parents had to transfer to Bhuvaneswar (Orissa) in 1991.....I was in 5th then and we had our 2nd lang. as Hindi (or Oriya) and 3rd lang. as Oriya, Hindi only for those who took 2nd lang. Oriya!
So I had no choice but to learn Oriya right from scratch, having more of a burden comp'd to those who'd already mastered the lang. from 3rd onwards! :(
Luckily my father got a transfer back to Hyd. a year later and I continued my 6th there, which was no prob. as I'd switched to a school of the same syllabus (ICSE).....w/ only minor differences in the portion.
Also, I was all the more lucky as in this school, it was not mandatory to learn the native lang. (telugu) as there was an option of Sanskrit as 3rd lang. (tat too only upto 8th) unlike my school in Orissa, which was also of the same syllabus! :D 2nd lang. was of course Hindi, which I was already familiar w/.....
So I agree ICSE shud do sumthing abt this lang. problem.....it might be ok to continue Hindi as a common lang. throughout the nation but they cud give up on the regional lang.s.....?

lordstanher

4th June 2005, 12:47 PM

Okay Lord - to your query abt me? I'm 4th generation Malaysian Indian, Pa!! Only been to India 3x!! Married to someone who still has a big part of his life left in India!

Tats interesting to know! Had a few M'asian Indian friends when I was in Singapore....a few of them even studied in India, there was one girl who finished her grad. in TN......

But honestly, India's system fascinates me!! How do they tie up, by the time you hit college or unversity????? Do institutes of higher learning accept all the above pre-U qualifications or do they set other criteria????

Afa I'm aware all colleges/Univ. in India recognise a valid 10+2 certificate from ne State and ne board during admission......in AP we hav wat's called Intermediate (= +2 & 12th std. altho different) after 10th....this is recognised even if u apply for degree in another state where this system doesn't exist......I guess all the various pre-univ. qualifications r recog'd by the Ministry of Education......

Delhi-based curriculum is what??? Only English medium??? Throughout the 12 years of school????

Well, Delhi-based just means the boards r located in Delhi & controlled by Central Govt.....they set the final (10th/12th) public exams for all the schools in the country affiliated to their boards and the answer papers of all the candidates nationwide go to their board for correction..... :D
And yes, both (ICSE & CBSE) r only English Medium curriculum from LKG to 10th/12th.
In SSC, the board is controlled by the local State Govt. itself and they hav the authority to make ne amends in the syllabus.....sum of these schools r only English medium whereas others hav teaching in local langs. as well.....

My son is still young. Only 13, but yeah, I wouldn't mind scouting around a system, that nurtures him better, than what he gets here, though :(

I understand all schools in Malaysia hav introduced teaching in English recently (b4 which it was Bahasa Melay?).....is it for all the subjects or just Maths/Science?

nirosha sen

4th June 2005, 01:57 PM

hav introduced teaching in sI understand all schools in MalaysiaEnglish recently (b4 which it was Bahasa Melay?).....is it for all the ubjects or just Maths/Science?

No, English was recently re-introduced as the medium of instruction for only Science/Maths, 2 yrs ago. That too starting from Yr 1, Form 1 (7th Std, for Indians) and Lower Six (11th Std). Before that it was only English subject alone.

So, now the new format of instruction has been kept alive for a total of 3 years. But already, there are rumblings of discontment among the Malays to revert back to only Bahasa Melayu!!

So, honestly, we don't know if the present status quo stays or not after 2007!! :(

hehehewalrus

6th June 2005, 01:09 PM

Wow......'wish I'd studied there......wud've been as lucky! :wink:
Btw, u studied in SSC (State) syllabus rite??

Depends on how u define "luck" - I sucked a bit in tamil and my parents got me to drop it(in my school, you'd be fined Rs.5 for every tamil word you use). There are lots of schools teaching French/German - in fact in Pondicherry which comes under TN Educational Board, there were schools which employ French as the medium of instruction!
The upshot of all this is you get badly screwed outside the school gates - I and most pals had a big problem reading tamil words on shops and buses...fed up of the exploitation, I decided to fix the darned problem by slogging it out on my tamil and overcame the perceptible handicaps later on. In a harsh country like India, thats the only way to fix probs, take the system head on or be prepared to be flattened :)

Nope I studied under a private sylab they call Matric. They dont teach foreign langs in SSC schools.

Neways, I guess atleast this eliminates my earlier opinion tat schools in TN r very particular abt including Tamil in their syllabus! :wink:

Nope TN is very much open minded in several things. In fact much more open minded than any other state :) The average man-in-the-street knows better english than his counterpart in any other state(Since when a guy conquers Tamil, English and not Hindi is next on the to-learn list)

For one thing, it is unnecessary for tams to learn Hindi since they dont come geographically into the Hindi belt, so why make things tough for their kids? Since we dont encourage Hindi, Hindi-speakers from other states are unlikely to move to TN for employment, our folks are unlikely to move elsewhere for greener pastures, since there are enough opportunities in our state for our people - thats how the system works.

That said, there are some despicable traits in Tamilians too! The "Ivan Nammaala?" ("Is he our man?") culture exists when Tam X meets Tam Y with some-stranger Z outside of TN. Tams expect fellow tams to bond only with tams - Language bonding! Whenever Tams goto Karnataka/Kerala/AP they expect the hosts to speak to them in Tamil, and the hosts obligingly do so - Tams are very xenophobic when it comes to assimilating other cultures - Why sweat picking a new lang when you can browbeat the other guy into speaking your own? :D Not surprising, that MG Road Bangalore has a wall on which was scribbled "Karnataka government, Open statue for God Thiruvalluvar". Opportunistic, heh? :)

And in TN, private schools have a syllabi of their own!
U mean schools of all boards or only SSC??

You're getting confused, so a little history would help here.

There are actually 5 boards in TN - CBSE, ICSE, AISCE(Anglo-Indian), Matric, SSC.
SSC sylab is fixed by the govt. To start with, most schools were SSC and they were govt run. But in 70s, private investment was encouraged and lot of English-type convent schools were started(pre-dominantly by the Anglo-Indians who choose to stay back in India). 90% of these schools fall under AISCE and Matric. They were definitely of a superior standard to SSC and also lots more expensive. Since no staff is on govt payroll, these schools set stringent standards and met them, while the govt SSC schools were sick-ridden with low funds/motivation/strikes/politics. Currently almost every city guy(except in remote villages) goes to a matric school. The Matric Schools became a cash-cow later on for the enterprising investors out to make a fast buck and nowadays it's not merely the service-minded people who start such schools.

Rarely does anyone start a private SSC school. You will have enuff knowledge about ICSE/CBSE I'm sure.

Hmm......on a not-too-related note, best thing I like abt our schools is the discipline they emphasise on! :wink:
Like for eg. showing mandatory respect for the teachers by wishing them whenever they walk in/out of the class, even if they just happen to drop in for a min., standing up while talking to them etc.......quite an astounding contrast to our colleges & Univs

Well thats simple - they demand that out of you. If you're in a govt school and you slight your teacher, who knows, the guy might flunk you for not scratching his ego :P In pvt schools, its worse - I actually had a classmate who was docked 25 marks for receiving his answer sheet with his left hand from the teacher :D
Atleast in college, you're grown up and if your prof has a prob with you, your gang can bash him up outside the campus.

I had a hell of a time when my parents had to transfer to Bhuvaneswar (Orissa) in 1991.....I was in 5th then and we had our 2nd lang. as Hindi (or Oriya) and 3rd lang. as Oriya, Hindi only for those who took 2nd lang. Oriya!

Oriya...hmmm..had a bunch of Oriyan friends...real softies - Orissa is one of the quieter and less-jingoistic states, very nice people, open minded. I guess they themselves had an identity crisis since most times, they get mistaken for Bongs :)) Good group of people, only thing is they simply cannot pronounce the "sh" sound - it is always 'friendsip', 'bullsit', etc.

hehehewalrus

6th June 2005, 01:15 PM

Walrus - TN sounds incredibly flexible, Pa!! Do they really allow you to breeze thru school without ever requiring an Indian Lang. as 2nd or 3rd lang.????

My son is still young. Only 13, but yeah, I wouldn't mind scouting around a system, that nurtures him better, than what he gets here, though :(

Well, you need to pick an indian lang from age 6-9 though, after that its your choice. Flexible indeed, but the real arthritis happens in your interaction with society.

Yes it would be definitely better for your son here but again most things in India are a matter of the will and temperament than anything else - its a pretty harsh and rough place to adapt for those not used to living here previously.
If your son is the type who beats every other kid in the neighborhood to pulp, then he will have no problems, but if not, will require some hand-holding in adapting to a new place. And for a kid expectations can be daunting.

nirosha sen

6th June 2005, 04:15 PM

Thanks guys!! I'm surprised the other M'sians here haven't forayed into this thread yet! So much of infor. to absorb, Pa!!

Okay now, here's my idiotic question, Walrus : You say you have those different boards in TN!! What does this mean????? How do they set their exam papers????? Is it filtered by a single examination board set by the Govt.????? How does your Matric. system work?????

I saw the Matric. schools in Annamalai serial and I was curious as to how these schools function????? Do they manage all subjects, including setting test papers for major exams like your SSC, etc or does Matric by itself have a different criterion in setting/marking papers???! :D

As for my son, Walrus! Am afraid, he can't a speak a single word of any Indian language. In my home neither Tamil or Malayalam!! :( Probably, why I'm zealous in pushing my daughter into a Tamil school lately!!

hehehewalrus

6th June 2005, 05:55 PM

Thanks guys!! I'm surprised the other M'sians here haven't forayed into this thread yet!
they've enough probs of their own, dont worry :)

Okay now, here's my idiotic question, Walrus : You say you have those different boards in TN!! What does this mean????? How do they set their exam papers????? Is it filtered by a single examination board set by the Govt.????? How does your Matric. system work?????

Ok, I dunno how its done at the topmost level(my mom is a princy and some of her friends are holding these very offices, maybe next time i'll ask them for info) - they have this overseer committee for all boards which set up the question papers and grading system for Class X Final exam(for each of the boards), these are administered statewide. The rest of the time, the schools themselves(or the local body of Matric schools in each town) frame the questions for the model tests. The only time staff of Matric schools get on govt payroll is when they are selected to grade any papers for the Grand Final Exam(they are paid a pittance anyway and most would rather holiday the summer away in Ooty!). So basically the Govt has nothing to do with the running of the Matric schools 99% of the time. It's a capitalist system here - atleast for SSC board, Govt puts a finger and pulls strings with respect to hiring staff, admitting students since they're on its payroll - As for Matric, the richer you are, the better teachers you recruit, the better results you produce. So basically if a Matric school is damn good with results, you will find the cream students from all schools flocking to this topgun school to admit their wards - and it will be a ratrace. There is actually an advantage here - you set high standards for a few years, you will starting get the best kids, and they will automatically study on their own with little coaching. So it's actually easier to revive a sick company than, say, improve a school that's flagging in performance.

After Class X, for 11th, 12th, all boards except CBSE(Central Board which is followed all over India) merge into the HSC stream and have a common syllabus. So generally Matric students fare better than SSC folk. Current trends show a different pattern though - Students from tiny cities are rocking leaving the more established cities behind. I guess the simple kids in villages/small cities have lesser distractions these days, city kids getting spoilt with scooters/bikes/girls/gadgets etc. Cities having double income families and with parents away, satellite television/internet/music systems around, a little hell is evolving in most modern households. Good trend, good to see the sincere small-town plodders win and serves the yuppies right for chasing the fleeting distractions! During my days, we smallcity kids freaked at Chennai kids with their suave know-it-all demeanour and aggresive results, currently though the one-time softies are kicking major Chennai butt. Ofcourse with all streams merging into HSC, you can expect higher degrees of corruption everywhere(textbooks not printed in time, confusion of time tables, paper leakage etc)

I mentioned Matrics being a cash-cow and evidence of this is the mushrooming of several 1000 teeny-weeny matric schools with inadequate facilites. Good example is that Kumbakonam school which greased the palms of some officers to get approval, had absolutely rotten facilities and lost several kids in that inferno. Its important to have service-minded people starting schools, recruiting service minded staff to teach(I was lucky that in my school, teachers would work on christmas day/new year/easter to help weak students or house them and feed them in their own homes during exam week, such people are rare these days. You wont see such things in SSC schools though. But these days Matric teachers try to join SSC since it assures them of govt payroll and assured pension after retirement!)

So overall in TN while you see a mix of capitalism and government interference, in the end it all goes down to the basics - plodding away manfully to get results, stick to your studies, not mind the distractions. In other states, I've seen that unless you pump in money for private tuitions for your kids, drive them around, its difficult for them to ace exams. In TN, its a reasonable system where it's not that exhorbitantly expensive, you put in efforts and you reap the rewards. There was this Tsunami-affected kid who topped the state in some exam recently, so adversity is a good way to sift the wheat from the chaff :)

As for my son, Walrus! Am afraid, he can't a speak a single word of any Indian language. In my home neither Tamil or Malayalam!! :( Probably, why I'm zealous in pushing my daughter into a Tamil school lately!!

Not necessary at all - infact i've never heard a Tam living in N.India put his ward in a Tamil school. You are like what, 12% in Malaysia and there's not much good in your daughter knowing Tamil, other than her accent sounding musical to your ears - Let her get a realistic taste of life for now, when she is old enough she can explore and learn indian langs or dig Bharatiyar on her own - thats how we "cosmo tams" do it here. First develop a yearning and you will gulp the arts and graces of the language in a year, better than getting force-fed all your life with it. Plus, when you learning something in school, you might have a lousy teacher or pick up wrong attitudes from peers who hate the subject, so you might gradually develop a resentment for it. So if there's something you really outta know in life, better put the onus of learning on yourself.

I saw this thread where a.r, NM, shakti, yourself talked about msian Tam schools but dont quite get it. Come on, we Tams are all over India, Malaysia, Singapore, Canada, Sri Lanka, Fiji, South Africa, Tanzania, Guyana, Australia, Norway, Germany, England, Burkina Faso and what not....it's not like the language will go dead if one expatriate temporarily lays it aside, tamil fanatics like the Tamilkudimagans, Karunanidhis and the Jayalalithas be damned.(Most fluent-in-tam youngsters actually waste their time reading trash like Ramani Chandran anyway :) )

nirosha sen

6th June 2005, 08:23 PM

Okay, here's a bit abt our school system, Pa!! :)

The secondary schools all have a common system. Books are the same, public exams the same,etc right up to pre-U, okay??? Which is for us called, Form 1 to Form 6. Age 13 - 18.

Now, the primary schools though are found in 3 different mediums. We have the mainstream Malay medium, for which the Govt. roots for and pumps in enough funds, but is very pro-Malay in character. Malays being Muslim, naturally infuence the entire set-up as per their ethnic identity.

Tamil schools also from Yr 1 to 6, but until 2 years ago all subjects like Maths, Science, Tamil, Moral, Local Studies, PE and Music appreciation were all conducted in the Tamil language. The only exception being English subject and Bahasa Melayu, the national language, hence compulsory.

The same subjects are taught in Mandarin, in the Chinese medium schools too!!

Now, with the change of Science/Maths taught in English, all the 3 medium schools are compelled to teach them in a single lang. only!!

So now, both Tamil and Chinese schools are left with only Moral, Tamil or Mandarin, Local Studies and Music Appreciation in their respective lang. Maths, Science and English subjects are now taught only in English. Announcement and teachers/students freely converse in their ethnic tongue unlike the Malay medium schools, where speaking the mother tongue is banned!!

All the products of these 3 mediums of instruction, finally merge in secondary schools where a single medium of instruction is used with the exception of the English subject!! Of course for Forms 1, 2 and 3 are now using English for Maths/Science as well. Also, the Pre-U group - we call them Lower Six and Upper Six.

7th June 2005, 07:07 AM

So overall in TN while you see a mix of capitalism and government interference, in the end it all goes down to the basics - plodding away manfully to get results, stick to your studies, not mind the distractions. In other states, I've seen that unless you pump in money for private tuitions for your kids, drive them around, its difficult for them to ace exams. In TN, its a reasonable system where it's not that exhorbitantly expensive, you put in efforts and you reap the rewards. There was this Tsunami-affected kid who topped the state in some exam recently, so adversity is a good way to sift the wheat from the chaff :)

I saw Visu's arattai arangam some time back and was amazed with the TN students' speech, their vision, determination and their vast knowledge. We do not see that in malaysia, especially not among the indian students. We are being suppressed so much and indian parents are under tremendous pressure to ensure their kids do very very well in their studies as everything here is based on quota system! So, when the students are pressured, they just study to make the grades. Not many excel in other field. There's no freedom for innovative thoughts/sessions - all priviledge being given to the malays in the country. Thats a sob story, i know, but thats how feel - and thats whats happening in malaysia today. I don't know if Niro or other parents agree with my feeling and thoughts!

I saw this thread where a.r, NM, shakti, yourself talked about msian Tam schools but dont quite get it. Come on, we Tams are all over India, Malaysia, Singapore, Canada, Sri Lanka, Fiji, South Africa, Tanzania, Guyana, Australia, Norway, Germany, England, Burkina Faso and what not....it's not like the language will go dead if one expatriate temporarily lays it aside, tamil fanatics like the Tamilkudimagans, Karunanidhis and the Jayalalithas be damned.(Most fluent-in-tam youngsters actually waste their time reading trash like Ramani Chandran anyway :) )

The mention of my name here is what brought this outburst... :lol: :D
Well, Walrus, whether you realize or no, more and more indians are losing their mother tongue. They forget. The parents speak English to them and they in turn, grow up speaking English. Then, some of them have the nerve to look down on the Tamil speakers. I have several friends who told me and my dad that they feel special and so high-class when they speak english. In India, it is OK, as you said, let the child grow and slowly they will pick up the language. Here, you let the child grow, and slowly, language & culture will be lost. For those who love language and culture will definately feel like me. A Mauritius minister (can't remember his
name) told a press conference when he was in malaysia a few years back that, if we are not careful, Malaysian indians will soon become like the mauritians, don't know their mother tongue and now, they regret for not preserving the language.

Well that's my stand and i seriously do believe, anyone of any race should not forget his/her mother tongue, parents must nurture this in their children from young. Thats the only way the love for the language will flourish! Tho' i am not tamil-educated, i feel proud that i can speak, read and write in tamil (tho' i still hv probs with the "na', 'ra', 'la' .. :lol: ). :D

a.ratchasi

7th June 2005, 12:30 PM

Well, Walrus, whether you realize or no, more and more indians are losing their mother tongue. They forget. The parents speak English to them and they in turn, grow up speaking English. Then, some of them have the nerve to look down on the Tamil speakers.

Unfortunately, what NM has put forth is true, walrus.
We should encourage the young ones to speak without any inhibition. For this to be achieved, it is pertinent for children to know our cultural aspects and heritage so that they too would not fall prey to the supposed social standing (??) as mentioned by NM.

let the child grow and slowly they will pick up the language.

This was what I went through. Tamil was not shoved down my throat (hehehe minus the attempts by my grandma who wanted me to take up POL lessons). Instead, healthy but small doses of cultural influence that my family infused since my childhood triggered my inquisitiveness to speak, read and write Tamil after a certain age though I am from English speaking background. To this day, people (especially distant relatives :evil: ) whom I meet are always pleasantly surprised to hear me talk/reply in tamil.

Sadly, though, the need to atleast communicate using Tamil is not shared by everyone else but instead it is seen as a cause of embarrasment.

I have digressed from the actual topic, havent I? :)

lordstanher

7th June 2005, 12:53 PM

in my school, you'd be fined Rs.5 for every tamil word you use).

Hmm.....I've heard abt such schools b4....good way of making extra income? :wink:
But when I was in Jr. college at Hyd. studying Intermediate in 1998-99, I got wat I personally felt was the worst punishment from ne teacher as a student, for speaking in a local lang.!
I hap'd to be in the 'good books' of my old English teacher then, altho she never openly showed favouritism w/ me in ne way at college......one day in her class, so hap'd tat she wasn't teaching ne-thing so we were free to talk... :wink:
One of my classmates asked me sumthing in Telugu & I absent-mindedly replied to him in the same, w/ our English tchr standing a little away from us! :shock: (firstly we were forbidden to talk in local langs. at college but none bothered to follow tat rule, except in English class!)........
she seemed very cross w/ both of us, esp. w/ me saying tat since I was one of the few good students at English, I shud be encouraging others to talk & improve their English, rather than joining in their lingua franca ('think she saw me as a traitor or sumthing!) and she asked us both to write an imposition of vowing to talk only in English- 300 times! and give it to her the next day.......but we cudn't finish it by then......so she straightaway made it 700 times! :(
My hand went limp & cudn't go on beyond 374-75 (which she accepted nevertheless)......'thot it wud've been better if she'd just given us a slap or a whack w/ a cane.......but more than tat, I was anguished tat I'd given her a bad impression abt me forever......however, it didn't turn out to be like tat afterall! :D

I and most pals had a big problem reading tamil words on shops and buses...fed up of the exploitation, I decided to fix the darned problem by slogging it out on my tamil and overcame the perceptible handicaps later on. In a harsh country like India, thats the only way to fix probs, take the system head on or be prepared to be flattened :)

Hmm.....well, I never learnt to read/write a single word of telugu (altho just a couple of alphs.!) throughout my life in AP! :wink:
However I reckon tat I cud still manage bcos I've lived in Hyd'bad & now Vizag, which r both urban cities & prefer wide use of English (even on buses etc.), as opposed to living in a smaller district/town.....?
Aside, there r also loads of northies & muslims in Hyd'bad who also never learnt to read/write Telugu......in fact muslims in 'old Hyd.' still stick to Urdu as a sole local lang.

For one thing, it is unnecessary for tams to learn Hindi since they dont come geographically into the Hindi belt, so why make things tough for their kids?

Well, u cud think so unless ur parent/s were employed in say, the Central Govt. (mine were working for ICMR) & r under the control of frequent interstate transfers, usually as luck wud hav it, to States w/ totally diff. langs..... :wink:
Even in the South, outside TN its unlikely to find a Tamil-speaking junta (altho in B'lore/Kerala there r sum exceptions).......
In such a scenario I daresay its useful to learn Hindi as its a far more widely accepted lingua franca.....?
Even if u don't learn how to read/write it (better not! :lol: ), it'd still suffice to learn how to speak it, even basically.....

That said, there are some despicable traits in Tamilians too! The "Ivan Nammaala?" ("Is he our man?") culture exists when Tam X meets Tam Y with some-stranger Z outside of TN. Tams expect fellow tams to bond only with tams - Language bonding!

Very true! :D And tat too, I personally noticed, the bond has to be only w/ tams. from TN, or atleast born in TN!
My mom (orig. from Madras) tells me tat when her marriage was fixed w/ my Dad (who was Tam but born/raised here in Vizag w/ only his ancestory from Sri rangam), many of her relatives exclaimed tat she was marrying a "telung-u kaaran" even tho he cud speak Tam.... :D
Ok 'nuff of this digression here.......!

There are actually 5 boards in TN - CBSE, ICSE, AISCE(Anglo-Indian), Matric, SSC.

Ohh yea I rem. hearing mention of AISCE sum time ago.....rings a bell now......!

SSC sylab is fixed by the govt. To start with, most schools were SSC and they were govt run. But in 70s, private investment was encouraged and lot of English-type convent schools were started(pre-dominantly by the Anglo-Indians who choose to stay back in India).

Yes I rem. one of the first SSC based convent-schools in Hyd. was started in the '70s, a girls' school tat my sis. first attended! Tks for the history bit, btw! :D

Since no staff is on govt payroll, these schools set stringent standards and met them, while the govt SSC schools were sick-ridden with low funds/motivation/strikes/politics.

They sadly r pretty much the same even today! Here in Vizag, I read abt one Govt. school tats never had ne toilet facility so the boys hav to relieve themselves on the walls of their classrooms/corridors! YUCK.......tat is so pathetic! :x

The Matric Schools became a cash-cow later on for the enterprising investors out to make a fast buck and nowadays it's not merely the service-minded people who start such schools.

Exactly......I even had a friend who later joined an SSC school in Hyd. tat seemed to run only for money....he told me it initially wasn't even recognised by the State board......so the candidates had to appear for the Xth public exam carrying the name of another SSC school on their hall tickets!

Atleast in college, you're grown up and if your prof has a prob with you, your gang can bash him up outside the campus.

Actually if u notice, in colleges even the profs. aren't tat devoted to their jobs so 'guess they can't heap the entire blame on the students.....many of the profs. work there only for becoming profs. (if its a govt. college/univ. they continue to get their salary whether they teach or not.......even if they go on a long leave!)........and even they follow lots of politics/superiority etc. in their workplace! :x

Oriya...hmmm..had a bunch of Oriyan friends...real softies - Orissa is one of the quieter and less-jingoistic states, very nice people, open minded.

Very traditional too.....apart from Bengalis..... :D

only thing is they simply cannot pronounce the "sh" sound - it is always 'friendsip', 'bullsit', etc.

Same thing in Bangla too......hence maybe the identity confusion w/ Bongs..... :wink:

tomato

7th June 2005, 01:19 PM

hehehewalrus, lordstaner
Truely informative posts. Never knew much abt ICSE or CBSE as I studied under karnataka state board. So could u guys answer some more queries from me
1. Which r the schools in Bangalore that offer ICSE/CBSE?
2. Where can I get the text books (reffered by ICSE/CBSE) for pimary 1(Ist standard)? During my schooling all text books were available at any book or stationary shop. But now I hear that the books r provided by the school itself. So would like to know if the text books r available at any book stores in Blore, Chennai or Hyderabad?

nirosha sen

7th June 2005, 02:16 PM

:D Absolutely agree with you, Tomato!! It's amazing how much infor. you gather just by discussing it at a slow and steady pace. This was exactly the reason, I was too embarrased to ask any of my Indian relatives back home. Either they didn't know enough or they could only relate to their particular Boards that handled their education.

Kudos to both Walrus and Lordstaner for this gradual and much needed discourse on education and of course, that good ole school system, Pa!! :wink:

It pays to be wandering Nomads, huh????!!! :D

lordstanher

7th June 2005, 02:34 PM

hehehewalrus, lordstaner
Truely informative posts. Never knew much abt ICSE or CBSE as I studied under karnataka state board. So could u guys answer some more queries from me
1. Which r the schools in Bangalore that offer ICSE/CBSE?
2. Where can I get the text books (reffered by ICSE/CBSE) for pimary 1(Ist standard)? During my schooling all text books were available at any book or stationary shop. But now I hear that the books r provided by the school itself. So would like to know if the text books r available at any book stores in Blore, Chennai or Hyderabad?

Tomato,
Um......I'm afraid I've no idea reg. Bangalore schools?
Reg. books, yes they were sold to us at the school itself even during my schooldays.....
still, as for bookstores in Hyderabad, the ones I can (vaguely) remember selling ICSE books r at these places called Koti & also Abids in Hyd.....but has there been ne problem in buying them from the school itself, ie. difference in pricing etc.?

lordstanher

7th June 2005, 02:41 PM

Kudos to both Walrus and Lordstaner for this gradual and much needed discourse on education and of course, that good ole school system, Pa!! :wink:

Ur always welcome, NS......'twas my pleasure of course! :D
Also helped me take a little walk down memory lane to my innocent (really!) schooldays in the process! :D

It pays to be wandering Nomads, huh????!!! :D

R u kidding??!! Whoz been paying me for wandering around (virtually) in this hub?? :lol: :wink:

PS- nice avatar this time......tat Sari looks really nice on her....! :D

hehehewalrus

8th June 2005, 12:29 AM

hehehewalrus, lordstaner
Truely informative posts. Never knew much abt ICSE or CBSE as I studied under karnataka state board. So could u guys answer some more queries from me
1. Which r the schools in Bangalore that offer ICSE/CBSE?

Nowadays selection of schools depends on several factors like 1. proximity to home, 2. availability of transport 3. Quality of teaching 4. Results produced 5. Amount you wanna spend on kid's education etc. So you might want to weigh in all these factors before selecting(There may be some schools with good teaching, but also a hep school where lot of super-rich kids study and your kid might get corrupted as well! - so you need to think about all these :) If you are relatively new to Bangalore, you might want to talk to 7,8 parents who have put their wards in school)

Just for starters, you might want to check this site : http://www.bishopcottons.com/
(Bishop Cotton is Bangalore's most famous school located on St.Marks Road and follows ICSE - i dont have any info about how good it is - talk to more people) You might get some idea of the fee structure and so on - dont be surprised if it costs a fortune to get an education there.

PS: I assume you are mallu, there are lot of smart mallus in bangalore, there must be a really good quality school run by the mallu associations, you would definitely like to put your kid in that type of a place and also run into long-lost relations :P

2. Where can I get the text books (reffered by ICSE/CBSE) for pimary 1(Ist standard)? During my schooling all text books were available at any book or stationary shop. But now I hear that the books r provided by the school itself. So would like to know if the text books r available at any book stores in Blore, Chennai or Hyderabad?

I dont know ur location, are u in Bangalore? What you need to do is get the list of prescribed books from the schools and compare the prices offered by the school and outside, it may differ. After that, if you're planning to buy outside, you might wanna try out Gangarams and Sapna, 2 good stores that stock textbooks and may offer discounts. Gangarams is on MG Road, a stone's thrown from Higginbothams(HB may stock school books as well, but they dont offer discounts). Sapna Book House is close to Majestic and KempeGowda terminus, it's just a 5-8 minute walk, you need to ask people for Tribhuvan Theater, the store is just beside, it's easily spottable since you will find lots of youngsters making their way to the shop. (PS: Gangarams and Sapna offer discounts for college books, not sure about school)

Aside: For novels/fiction, the preferred place is Premier Book Shop, its on a tiny lane called Church Street, just around Bishop Cottons on St.Marks Road - its a good repository of 2nd hand books for cheap rates. Of course, its not like Bombay's Flora Fountain where u can grab a dozen books for Rs.40 or Rs.50 depending on your bargaining power :D

napolims445

8th June 2005, 03:30 AM

hi
i had my entire education in karnataka as its my native state..
Some info about ICSE and SSE-
Just to get an idea- I passed my 10th in 1993..
and when i give any statements they are based of majority...that means there is a minority case which u should keep in mind as well.

My husband had his school education with ICSE in kerala
where as i had my school education in SSE in karnataka.
In SSE-
In SSE that is state syllabus only 10th std were state wise..i mean the same question paper for everyone in sse in karnataka.
and exams for other classes below 10th were set by their respective schools, But syllabus was the same thro'out sse schools. In sse for english medium we had first language english, second language kannada and third language hindi.
but once we go to PUC 1 and puc 2(Pre university college- known as +1 +2 or 11th 12th and more...) i think there was only english medium...and for second language we had options of hindi, kannada, sanskrit)
In school sse we had to study history, geography of the entire world in detail but where as my husband in ICSE did not study the world history and geography.. They just skimmed thro' some important points in brief..
also i have relatives in maharashtra and andhra who had kids of our age...among all the school syllabus people used to say that the Standard of syllabus in karnataka schools is very high but the standard of teaching is not at all good. and the education system here is so much polluted and corrupted now even in the school levels..I see my cousins in so much stress all the time now ..i did not have that prob during my times...then it was only in the college level...I have gone thro''a lot of collge politics and corruption..but in the end i have become a strong person...and can stand for myself in any situation.
No idea about the teaching standard in ICSE and CBSE syllabus schools in karnataka.

I'm very lucky to have got my education in India in karnataka.
in general if a person has his childhood in india he becomes strong mentallyand socially in any situation.

I had my school life in north part of karnataka so i got to learn very GOOD hindi and understand some urdu (influence of nawab)which the south karnataka people cannot talk,
can understand marathi because near to maharashtra and in my place literally it was a labourors language, telugu because neighboring state and had a lot of andhrites in our universities)
and of course kannada, hindi and english..I'm lucky to have grown up there.
Hope this helps for anybody trying to know the education system in karnataka

nirosha sen

8th June 2005, 10:27 AM

Another poser, sorry if I had missed anything earlier!

What abt curriculum development????? Do all these schools under the various Boards share the same textbooks and subjects taught???

Setting of questions for major public exams???? Who sets them????

Thanks in advance! :D

lordstanher

8th June 2005, 10:49 AM

What abt curriculum development????? Do all these schools under the various Boards share the same textbooks and subjects taught???

Unftly no, different boards recommend different books/syllabi for schools under their respective boards......which is y, as I (& Walrus) said, a student will face difficulties when changing schools from one board to another..... :(
Besides, for ICSE atleast the books r published in Delhi and distributed throughout the country......whereas SSC books r published locally in the respective state.......
Oh, and yea I forgot to mention earlier- in ICSE there r foreign languages available as an option.....in my old school in Hyd., French was introduced as a 3rd lang. (in addition to Telugu, Hindi & Sanskrit) sumwhere around 1994...... :)
However, students still had to continue their 2nd lang. (Hindi or Telugu).......

Setting of questions for major public exams???? Who sets them????

Well, its definitely the respective boards themselves who set the papers......and tats where the papers go for correction/final results.....
ICSE/CBSE r both Delhi-based boards, whereas SSC being a state board, is located in the respective State itself......

napolims445

8th June 2005, 10:14 PM

[/quote]
Unftly no, different boards recommend different books/syllabi for schools under their respective boards......which is y, as I (& Walrus) said, a student will face difficulties when changing schools from one board to another.....

As lord... said thats very true...

Well, its definitely the respective boards themselves who set the papers......and tats where the papers go for correction/final results.....
...

I dont know about other states but this is not true in Karnataka with the SSE syllabus to my knowledge. In karnataka except for 10 std exams papers all the rest classes exam papers are set and corrected in the respective school itself. But the SSE has same syllabus/text books throughout state with SSE schools.

hehehewalrus

8th June 2005, 11:16 PM

I saw Visu's arattai arangam some time back and was amazed with the TN students' speech, their vision, determination and their vast knowledge. We do not see that in malaysia, especially not among the indian students. We are being suppressed so much and indian parents are under tremendous pressure to ensure their kids do very very well in their studies as everything here is based on quota system!

Arattai arangam? :) Oh dont get too excited by it - here's a description of Arattai Arangam in Lollu Express:
<Begin quote>In that program you can see thaikulam sentiment/appa sentiment/amma sentiment/naikkutty sentiment/poonai & eli sentiment etc...there were times when people used to hug each other and cry(anandha kanner)!Makkal romba unarchi vasa padaranga.<End quote>
AA is merely a packaged program used to whip up sentiments, the mainstream public doesnt care about it - they attend it merely to appear on TV - nobody wishes to practice what is preached there :) Only good is some Rotaract clubs come forward to offer money to the poor.

Ok I understand the repressive policies of the Malay government, just like in Sri Lanka, and the 2nd class treatment handed out to Indians. But dont u think tamils(since 90% of msian indians are tamils) will make a bigger impact if they join the mainstream instead of staying aloof by themselves? As such, there is a certain amount of bickering when tams get together, it cant be helped.

BTW, i keep thinking NM and ratchasi are the same person - due to similar writing style and age i guess, its so hard to distinguish :)

Hmm.....well, I never learnt to read/write a single word of telugu (altho just a couple of alphs.!) throughout my life in AP!

you dont have to - since Hindi is the official language in Hyd :)

only thing is they simply cannot pronounce the "sh" sound - it is always 'friendsip', 'bullsit', etc.

Same thing in Bangla too......hence maybe the identity confusion w/ Bongs.....

Pronunciation of "Sh"? nope. Bengalis proficiently use the "sh" sound even substituting it for the 's' - Even noticed they pronounce "Sarkar" like "Shorkar" and "Saurav" like "Shorub"?

The confusion is with the surnames, Kar and Das are very common surnames used by both bengalis and oriyans - Probably some common ancestry since bengalis are spread all over WB, Bihar, Orissa and further east into Assam, Bangladesh(they are lots of Bangla Hindus who left Bangladesh after 1971). Pure Oriyan names are easily identifiable like Mohanty, Patro, Mohapatra, etc.

But the best way of identifying bongs is by their 'healthy' cheeks - the result of consuming tons of sweets, the average bengali consumes atleast 100gms of mishti every day :) A less surefire method is by their glossy hair - effect of a daily seafood diet.

It's amazing how much infor. you gather just by discussing it at a slow and steady pace. This was exactly the reason, I was too embarrased to ask any of my Indian relatives back home. Either they didn't know enough or they could only relate to their particular Boards that handled their education.
nirosha, its only the tip of the iceberg. what you got was only for TN, for other states it will be totally different.

lordstanher

9th June 2005, 12:12 AM

I dont know about other states but this is not true in Karnataka with the SSE syllabus to my knowledge. In karnataka except for 10 std exams papers all the rest classes exam papers are set and corrected in the respective school itself.

Yes sorry, I was actually referring to the 10th exam papers too :D .....(which r also called board exams as they're set by the board)!
Even in AP in ICSE (& I think even CBSE?), the final exam papers from 1-9th std. r set/corrected by the teachers of the respective schools themselves......but in SSC (atleast in AP), there is a board exam even in 7th, apart from of course, 10th.......

But the SSE has same syllabus/text books throughout state with SSE schools.

Yep, same case w/ the State board (SSC) in AP.......and in ICSE, its the same throughout India atleast for 8th/9th/10th classes (since they share a common board exam paper for 10th).......in the lower classes sum books r common to schools in diff. states altho in my time there were sum minor differences in which classes the same book/s was/were used.......for eg. the same history text bk. tat I studied in 5th std. at Orissa was used only a year later (6th) in my 'new' school in Hyd...... :D
So even tho I'd joined mid-way in 6th at Hyd. I wasn't really worried abt having missed out on the portion in History since I'd already studied it all b4hand! :wink: :D

lordstanher

9th June 2005, 12:33 AM

you dont have to - since Hindi is the official language in Hyd :)

Ur indeed right.......aside, if u might be aware, the Hyderabadi Hindi is quite a lot different from the 'standard' Hindi....so even many local Hindi speakers in Hyd. faced quite alot of difficulties in studying Hindi......esp. for most of us in 8th-10th where we had an old, strict Hindi teacher who, being a northie, was very pro-'standard' hindi..... :wink:

Bengalis proficiently use the "sh" sound even substituting it for the 's' - Even noticed they pronounce "Sarkar" like "Shorkar" and "Saurav" like "Shorub"?

Yes even Oriyas pronounce it tat way.......but I was certainly told tat Bengalis tend to pronounce evn Sha as Sa......?
There was a friend of mine in Sing. who was born/raised in Calcutta.......her name was supposed to be Shweta but she said in her school they pronounced it as Sweta, so tats how it'd been entered in the records! :D

The confusion is with the surnames, Kar and Das are very common surnames used by both bengalis and oriyans -

I knew tat Kar is Oriya......never heard of Bongs having it?? :?
And Das is very much Bengali, but in Oriya in sum cases, its 'Dash'.....which, as I said, makes it similar to Bengali..... :wink:

But the best way of identifying bongs is by their 'healthy' cheeks - the result of consuming tons of sweets, the average bengali consumes atleast 100gms of mishti every day :)

Not to mention the ever famous Roshogullas?? :wink: :D

I find it easier to identify esp. Bengali men tho......

napolims445

9th June 2005, 12:53 AM

On that note-
The bengalis pronounce "Va" as "Ba" varsha as barsha example...
i know that biharis pronounce "Sha" as "Sa" like sheets as seets varsha as varsa etc...because i had a bihar friend in college

9th June 2005, 06:29 AM

Arattai arangam? :) Oh dont get too excited by it - here's a description of Arattai Arangam in Lollu Express:
<Begin quote>In that program you can see thaikulam sentiment/appa sentiment/amma sentiment/naikkutty sentiment/poonai & eli sentiment etc...there were times when people used to hug each other and cry(anandha kanner)!Makkal romba unarchi vasa padaranga.<End quote>
AA is merely a packaged program used to whip up sentiments, the mainstream public doesnt care about it - they attend it merely to appear on TV - nobody wishes to practice what is preached there :) Only good is some Rotaract clubs come forward to offer money to the poor.
Thanks walrus! didn't know that. I just voiced out what I saw on tele and felt proud of the youngsters...

Ok I understand the repressive policies of the Malay government, just like in Sri Lanka, and the 2nd class treatment handed out to Indians. But dont u think tamils(since 90% of msian indians are tamils) will make a bigger impact if they join the mainstream instead of staying aloof by themselves? As such, there is a certain amount of bickering when tams get together, it cant be helped.
Yup, agreed! Tams or rather indians must stand united! :D

BTW, i keep thinking NM and ratchasi are the same person - due to similar writing style and age i guess, its so hard to distinguish :)
Well, didn't you know?? We are twins, separated at birth! :lol:
Anyway, we aren't and are ages apart! Perhaps we were, in our previous lifes?? :lol: :D :wink:

a.ratchasi

9th June 2005, 06:56 AM

BTW, i keep thinking NM and ratchasi are the same person - due to similar writing style and age i guess, its so hard to distinguish

Perhaps, it's due to both NM and I got 'emotional' on the same topic!!
:wink:

Funny that you mentioned it, cos I had a feeling before that blahblah and yourself were the same person!!:)

Cheers to my 'sis'!! :lol:

hehehewalrus

9th June 2005, 08:43 AM

Well, didn't you know?? We are twins, separated at birth! :lol:

Okay, ok. I get the complete story. Before you got separated, your parents taught you the reunion song "Yethanai Kaalam dhaan yemaathuvaanga indha naatile, nam naatile" as an expression of dissent against the malaysian education policies. Both of you kept singing this song(wearing the same yellow-flowers-in-blue background dress which was the color of the dress during your last birthday at home) in your respective Malaysian Indian Women Association functions, hoping to find the long last other twin. Then both got attracted by the contents of this thread and bumped into each other? :)

9th June 2005, 08:45 AM

Well, didn't you know?? We are twins, separated at birth! :lol:

Okay, ok. I get the complete story. Before you got separated, your parents taught you the reunion song "Yethanai Kaalam dhaan yemaathuvaanga indha naatile, nam naatile" as an expression of dissent against the malaysian education policies. Both of you kept singing this song in your respective Malaysian Indian Women Association, hoping to find the long last other twin. Then both got attracted by the contents of this thread and bumped into each other? :)Haiyooh! walrus!! :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: ..Yaadon Ki Bharat is more appropriate! :lol: :lol: Sorry for the digression! :oops:

tomato

9th June 2005, 08:55 AM

Tomato,
Um......I'm afraid I've no idea reg. Bangalore schools?
Reg. books, yes they were sold to us at the school itself even during my schooldays.....
still, as for bookstores in Hyderabad, the ones I can (vaguely) remember selling ICSE books r at these places called Koti & also Abids in Hyd.....but has there been ne problem in buying them from the school itself, ie. difference in pricing etc.?

Ok, Ok I must explain my position better. I'm currently residing in singapore. And my six year old son will be starting his primary 1(Ist std) from Jan 2006. (Singapore local school- academic year is jan to dec). But in a couple of years I'm planning to go to India(Bangalore) for good. So I just want to go thru the books reffered by schools in India now so as to prepare my son in advance. Though I studied under state board I would like to go for ICSE/CBSE for my son cos of its uniform sylabus throughtout the country. And we do have 2 Indian international school here in singapore: Bhavan's -folllows CBSE(I think) & DPS - Follows ICSE(again not sure). But I find these school absurdly expensive and hence not worth it. Also on one of my visits to DPS, I did not like the atmosphere very much-snobbish parents ect. And thru friends I have not yet got a good report of Bhavan's school either. Most parents I talked to here send thier children to these schools coz they think thier child will be more comfortable in an 'Indian' kind of environment and it will be easier to settle into schools in India if and when they return to India.
lordstaner, can u pls give me the exact addresses of the book shops u have mentioned. i have folks in H'bad who could post me the books, but I need to give them the correct address coz they themselves r a bit new to the city.

tomato

9th June 2005, 09:23 AM

Nowadays selection of schools depends on several factors like
1. proximity to home, 2. availability of transport
3. Quality of teaching 4. Results produced 5. Amount you wanna spend on kid's education etc. So you might want to weigh in all these factors before selecting(There may be some schools with good teaching, but also a hep school where lot of super-rich kids study and your kid might get corrupted as well! - so you need to think about all these :) If you are relatively new to Bangalore, you might want to talk to 7,8 parents who have put their wards in school)

You seem to have covered all the points that I myself will consider when I look for a school. I'm not at all interested in sending my child to a school full of rich brats. We do not have a roaring family bussiness for him to join when he grows up. So he has to carve a niche for himself and as parents we can only give him good education, support and guidance.

Just for starters, you might want to check this site : http://www.bishopcottons.com/
(Bishop Cotton is Bangalore's most famous school located on St.Marks Road and follows ICSE - i dont have any info about how good it is - talk to more people) You might get some idea of the fee structure and so on - dont be surprised if it costs a fortune to get an education there.

Thanx for the link. Heard of this school-quite reputated. It is also centrally located. The fee structure also looks OK. But as u said I need to talk to parents sending their children there. Only draw back I see is that it is a Boys only school. I personally prefer a mixed(both boys and girls) school as I feel it will encourage in healthy interaction and better social skills. In a mixed school u learn to accept and respect the opposite sex.

PS: I assume you are mallu, there are lot of smart mallus in bangalore, there must be a really good quality school run by the mallu associations, you would definitely like to put your kid in that type of a place and also run into long-lost relations :P

I'm amused at your assumption , but sorry to dissapoint U I'm not a mallu.

2. Where can I get the text books (reffered by ICSE/CBSE) for pimary 1(Ist standard)? During my schooling all text books were available at any book or stationary shop. But now I hear that the books r provided by the school itself. So would like to know if the text books r available at any book stores in Blore, Chennai or Hyderabad?

I dont know ur location, are u in Bangalore? What you need to do is get the list of prescribed books from the schools and compare the prices offered by the school and outside, it may differ. After that, if you're planning to buy outside, you might wanna try out Gangarams and Sapna, 2 good stores that stock textbooks and may offer discounts. Gangarams is on MG Road, a stone's thrown from Higginbothams(HB may stock school books as well, but they dont offer discounts). Sapna Book House is close to Majestic and KempeGowda terminus, it's just a 5-8 minute walk, you need to ask people for Tribhuvan Theater, the store is just beside, it's easily spottable since you will find lots of youngsters making their way to the shop. (PS: Gangarams and Sapna offer discounts for college books, not sure about school)

Aside: For novels/fiction, the preferred place is Premier Book Shop, its on a tiny lane called Church Street, just around Bishop Cottons on St.Marks Road - its a good repository of 2nd hand books for cheap rates. Of course, its not like Bombay's Flora Fountain where u can grab a dozen books for Rs.40 or Rs.50 depending on your bargaining power :D

Thanx for the info on book shops, I'll peep into gangaram and sapna book shop on my next visit to India.

nirosha sen

9th June 2005, 12:51 PM

That was news, Tomato, abt Indian International schools in S'pore! Why do you find them snobbish???? Aren't most of them kids of Indian expats themselves????

I'm curious abt your son's education in S'pore. Isn't it easier to enrol him in a S'porean school where it's fully English medium???? Don't Indian schools accept kids, transferred from a Singaporean school???!! :o

lordstanher

9th June 2005, 02:30 PM

On that note-
The bengalis pronounce "Va" as "Ba" varsha as barsha example...

Again, so do Oriyas.....they had this CM called J B (Janaki Ballabh) Patnaik :D
And yes, just rem'd.....Oriyas also pronounce 'ksha' as 'kha'.......eg. Akshay as Akhay......and 'ya' as 'ja'.......eg. Yogi as Jogi.......
Oops......tats it for the digression! :D

lordstanher

9th June 2005, 03:07 PM

lordstaner, can u pls give me the exact addresses of the book shops u have mentioned. i have folks in H'bad who could post me the books, but I need to give them the correct address coz they themselves r a bit new to the city.

Tomato,
At the present I'm afraid the only bookshop at Hyd. I can recall perfectly well is Nagarjuna Book Depot.......its just outside Taj Mahal Hotel at this place called ABIDS (most auto-drivers there r familiar w/ this place & wud be able to guide ur relatives)......
I just tried searching for other ICSE bookstores in Hyd. via google and also www.khojhyderabad.com but surprisingly no results found...!
Nevertheless, if this isn't urgent for u, I've planned to go to Hyd. on the 16th for a few days.....and hope to visit my ex-school there this time....if so I shall try & enquire from my old teachers etc. there.......they'd be knowing better I'm sure! :D

PS- I'd lived in Singapore for 2 and 1/2 years until April this year......I knew abt Bhavan's Intl. (& also Indian Central School)......as for the snobbish bit, um......it might be bcos those particular parents take too much pride in being NRIs?? :wink: :D

hehehewalrus

9th June 2005, 07:13 PM

These days it is very difficult to identify and find ways to tackle peer pressure affecting kids in our schools. Earlier, there used to be niche schools where all the children of rich people go. These days, due to the growth and prosperity of the middle class, the line of demarcation has become extremely blurred.

It is not merely peer pressure that corrupts children but also the environment provided to the child. Since most of the cases, both parents are working leaving the child with the maid/babysitter, children grow up neglected. I am seeing this happen in smaller cities not just metroes. In order to assuage their guilt, parents pamper their kids with watever they request.

Due to the software boom, double income families are the norm even with the lower middle class families. Thanks to the growing "nouveaux riches" culture, there is really no telling what is actually a 'posh' school and what is not - the gap has narrowed tremendously. In the long run, ultimately only those joint families which retain traditional values will provide a safe and protective environment for the kids, which is why community bonding is a must

Napolims, are u from Dharwad side?

hehehewalrus

9th June 2005, 07:29 PM

Only draw back I see is that it is a Boys only school. I personally prefer a mixed(both boys and girls) school as I feel it will encourage in healthy interaction and better social skills. In a mixed school u learn to accept and respect the opposite sex.

Personally, I will NOT put "my" children in a co-ed either for school or even college if the city in question is Bangalore, knowing about student lifestyles there and the influence of the callcenter boom :) I'd prefer to have the intermingling of sexes in a familial/friends' circle environment. But thats only me

Thiru

9th June 2005, 07:29 PM

It is not merely peer pressure that corrupts children but also the environment provided to the child. Since most of the cases, both parents are working leaving the child with the maid/babysitter, children grow up neglected. I am seeing this happen in smaller cities not just metroes. In order to assuage their guilt, parents pamper their kids with watever they request.

That is so true... Parents start this habit of bribing the kids with something to hide their mistake or guilt... This is a way of educating the kids that you can still get away by doing something wrong...joint family has its own advantages and disadvantages when kids grow up.. Grandparents are usually not strict enough and give a free pass to kids mistakes.. Sometimes kids grow so attached to grandparents that it induces a complex in certain moms....

lordstanher

9th June 2005, 07:52 PM

Walrus,
U hav explicitly highlighted the problems of increasingly common peer pressure plus the increasing cosm. environment around youngsters today......not to mention the increasingly materialistic attitudes in many of today's parents tat r making family values take the last seat!
Altho I feel tat co-ed is a good system, there cud also be students who take undue advantage of it & sumtimes cross the limits (as occured in the Delhi schoolgirl incident tat we all wud know abt)........
I rem. tat back in my schooldays (even in 10th) many of us boys considered the girls as sisters & even had them tie 'rakhies' for us b4 tat festival....(I was particularly upset tat hardly ne girl tied one on me, in 9th class!).....
And not more than 7-8 yrs ago, when I was in Intermediate (= plus 2 or 12th), half of my class had girls in it, and there was a lot of stirct moral policing in our college abt interacting w/ girls (except for studies they said)....
But even then, there were hardly ne of us boys who cared to talk to the girls during those 2 years....! Or maybe we hadn't reached tat stage yet (until degree?).......
There were very few GF-BF pairs in our entire college (not just my class) then, and even they used to be quite discrete abt it......and there was just this one incident where one girl in our class was 'rumoured' to've had an abortion!
However, within just a few years, today the change is overwhelming, all this actually crossing the borders of colleges/Jr.colleges & is seeping into the more orderly world of schools!
Of course, contrary to the need for parents to be strict, there r also sum parents who believe tat being too strict w/ children spoils them!
I reckon they might be right in a manner of speaking.......however if the children obviously seem to veer off the right track & do sumthing tat can never be approved, they must take a firm (but not nec. harsh) stand in such situations.....?

rajraj

9th June 2005, 07:54 PM

Thiru,
The effects of outsourcing and open economy(MNCs) in India? :(

hehehewalrus

9th June 2005, 08:14 PM

lordstanher

9th June 2005, 08:14 PM

Sometimes kids grow so attached to grandparents that it induces a complex in certain moms....

I agree! :D In my case, it introduced a complex even in my Dad, when I was very attached to my grandpa (Dad's father) until he passed away in 1997......
I observe tat most parents today r so focussed on their children's academic achievements/under-achievements tat they fail to take notice of other important things such as their character, personality development, maintanence of our morals/values (tat our greater society takes so much pride in!) etc......its distressing to find most parents today stressing on "concentrating on studies", "getting good marks", "getting a good rank in class" right from KG onwards! Not tat they shudn't care abt these aspects but rarely do I hear ne of them telling their children the importance of values/character and developing themselves into strong-minded, righteous individuals in life!
And later on, in more cases than otherwise, its the same parents who complain abt their children not following ne of our culture/values......!
If u notice, many of the young professionals of today who've successfully climbed up the academic ladder & hav landed in prime jobs w/ MNCs/software cos./BPOs etc. (w/ mostly fat pay-packets no doubt) don't really hav ne idea of wat life is really abt.....most of them don't think for a min. abt settling down in life w/ a family for eg.!
They just think tat they've fulfilled their goals (or rather parents' goals) in life, and tats in fact proved by the well-to-do jobs/positions they've got themselves.......so there's nothing else in life tat matters to them......bcos this is all tat most of their parents wud've shown to desire of them as well! And so this is the main/only purpose in life tat'd been ingrained into them from childhood!

lordstanher

9th June 2005, 08:27 PM

Lord Stanher,
I did NOT wish to go overboard and sound like a "moral policeman" regarding this aspect of school-life - it is just one of many risks involved in modern times. But what I am observing in small cities(Not Level 1 cities like Madras, Blr, Hyd, Cal, Bom, Del) is that good number of co-ed schools are making it into girls only or boys only schools. Level 1 city schools surely would not take such a drastic step since it may result in loss of business. But the fact that more managements are making it unisex does indicate potential for problems in co-ed schools.

Well, sorry if I'd gone a bit overboard/carried away into the 'moral policing' bit there! :D
Altho co-ed system does hav its problems to deal w/, I personally feel tat even in non co-ed schools, it might be all the more difficult to manage students in Boys only schools, and maybe not girls in girls only schools.....?
When I was in 10th for eg. we were 2 sections, and ours had only Boys in it! And tat did seem to make most of them feel they had much more um- freedom at all times as opposed to the other secn. w/ girls in it, which made the boys there more 'timid' in their general behaviour! :wink:

lordstanher

9th June 2005, 08:36 PM

Personally, I will NOT put "my" children in a co-ed either for school or even college if the city in question is Bangalore, knowing about student lifestyles there and the influence of the callcenter boom :)

Um......pardon my ignorance but how wud the call centre boom influence schoolkids?? Surely kids tat young don't work in them?? :? The min. age I heard was 12th/plus 2 pass......
Neways, I do agree w/ u abt the youth lifestyle in B'lore.......but I thot tat Del/Bbay r the same.....even more cosmo. in fact??
As for me, it depends on wat kids I hav! If I've a daughter, I wudn't mind her attending co-ed until say 6th or 7th (b4 teenage), which shud be safe enuff...... :D after which I'd put her in a girls' only school & of course college......

I'd prefer to have the intermingling of sexes in a familial/friends' circle environment. But thats only me

Nope, tats me too! :wink:

rajraj

9th June 2005, 08:47 PM

hehehewalrus/lordstanher,

Are there schools that promote/develop individual thinking and creativity? Most of the schools seem to promote 'rote learning' to do well in examinations! :(

hehehewalrus

9th June 2005, 08:57 PM

Um......pardon my ignorance but how wud the call centre boom influence schoolkids?? Surely kids tat young don't work in them?? :? The min. age I heard was 12th/plus 2 pass......

I mentioned the callcenter industry for the foll reasons:
1) During my time in school, most of us were unsure of a future in engineering, so we slogged like hell. There were no time for fooling around. No, the number of colleges have multiplied 10 fold and everyone who leaves school can take for granted that he will be an engineer. The seriousness of school life is lost.
2) Secondly, callcenters provide employment for all graduates. Gone are the days when a commerce/arts student dreaded his lack of opportunities for employment. So basically, one can be a smooth-talking Casanova in his college days and still strike it rich in the callcenter industry :)

Neways, I do agree w/ u abt the youth lifestyle in B'lore.......but I thot tat Del/Bbay r the same.....even more cosmo. in fact??

Though Del/Bbay are wilder, they are not cash-rich cities like Bangalore and IT jobs are tough. Besides the exhorbitant cost of living means that youngsters there have to sweat to survive. You dont get that many opportunities to fool around, because getting a job and buying a 1 bedroom house will be a great achievement in itself.

As for me, it depends on wat kids I hav! If I've a daughter, I wudn't mind her attending co-ed until say 6th or 7th (b4 teenage), which shud be safe enuff...... :D after which I'd put her in a girls' only school & of course college......
As for me, if i've a daughter, all her schooling will be in one of the Ramakrishna Mutt schools and college in Meenakshi College only :)
Not even thinking of the women's colleges like Vaishnav, Stella Maris, Queen Marys...I heard reliable insider info that there is increasing lesbianism catching on in Stella and other unisex colls of conservative chennai.

Thiru

9th June 2005, 09:16 PM

well, both my sister and BIL are working and have a tight schedule and they have 2 daughters (one 10 years old and the other 4 years old)..my sis comes home from office at 6 pm and my BIL is always late (anytime between 7.30 to 10)..and he cant give up his TV watching europen soccer.. now my sister wants her elder daughter to be a jack of all trades.. she has enrolled her for music class, dance class, swimming, abacus (some maths class) etc... she also wants her to play and therefore lets her play badminton.... and ofcourse being 10 years old, my neice wants to watch cartoon network and play games on the PC as well.. With all these things, my sister is worried about her daughter's grades... I've told her several times that she has to draw a line on what she can do and what she cant.. if she spends the rest of the evening with her elder kid, then the second kid feels left out... and ofcourse there are household duties like cooking, cleaning and shopping... Either she has to quit her job (a bank job which is tough to get) or cut some of my neice's activities... Its easily said than done.. every parents aspiration is for their kids to be good in everything... Parents in the US are good in this aspect that they dont put the kid through everything... They tend to judge by the kids interest and involvment and go with that.. People in India have to realize that.... They have to make the kids realize that there is a future in everything.. The problem in India is that there is a such a gap in salary between the professionals(doctors, s/w people, Chartered accounts) and the non-professionals (clerks, officers) that people tend to enforce that the only way to make money is to be a professional... There is a similar gap here in the US too but thats not noticeable when you are respected and paid enough for that profession...

hehehewalrus

9th June 2005, 09:48 PM

Well, sorry if I'd gone a bit overboard/carried away into the 'moral policing' bit there! :D

No I didnt hint that you went overboard. I was just taking an insurance helmet for myself so that no one accuses me of straying from the topic :lol2:

Are there schools that promote/develop individual thinking and creativity? Most of the schools seem to promote 'rote learning' to do well in examinations!
Rajraj, i dont know about other states, but in TN parents and educators follow the safety-first approach which is to seek out an admission into a professional course. As you may be aware of the Landmark decision of the TN CM to do away with the Entrance Exam in Tamil Nadu - the people most affected are the 50 crore worth "teaching shops" which run rigourous crash courses for the entrance tests. [In AP too, there are these IIT prep trainers like Narayana Institute which are into this industry. Atleast they are much much better than their TN counterparts :) ]. There is really no time to 'experiment'.

The other thing is that, the responsibility of teaching is solely left to the educators, parents absolve themselves of all responsibilities and no one looks at the home as a stage for learning. Personality development and cultural values are given the short shrift and as a result youngsters learn values only from their peers. There was a phase during my time that it was 'uncool' to be seen shopping/outing around with one's parents, dont know if that idea still holds today!

rajraj

9th June 2005, 10:05 PM

Thanks hehehewalrus! I asked that question because I have been asked many times why India has not produced more Nobel prize winners. I think it has to do with the school system that relies on rote learning. The number of bright children who go for pure sciences is also dwindling. Even though India has a large talent pool it does not show up in prestigious awards and patent filing.
I think it is about time people thought about revising the system drastically.

lordstanher

9th June 2005, 10:52 PM

Are there schools that promote/develop individual thinking and creativity?

A very thought-provoking qsn. indeed! :D And I now rem. asking myself this qsn. too, partic. when I was in Inter/Jr. college..... :D
And to this day I havn't found a definite answer so far.......? :?
Even in most of the reputed schools I can think of, they seem to encourage individual thinking & creativity only in the KG/primary students (w/ all the play/activity tat goes on in their classes)......!

Most of the schools seem to promote 'rote learning' to do well in examinations! :(

And most parents, as I said, go hand-in-hand w/ them in this! :(

napolims445

9th June 2005, 11:25 PM

walrus,
no i'm not from dharwad...

hehehewalrus

9th June 2005, 11:37 PM

The number of bright children who go for pure sciences is also dwindling. Even though India has a large talent pool it does not show up in prestigious awards and patent filing.

Rajraj, here is a telling example of what you pointed out:
http://www.newindpress.com/NewsItems.asp?ID=IET20050606095151&Topic=0&Title=Southern%20News%20-%20Tamil%20Nadu&Page=T

2 girls wrote this award winning Botany paper in their XI std. Currently they are pursuing IT.

lordstanher

9th June 2005, 11:45 PM

1) During my time in school, most of us were unsure of a future in engineering, so we slogged like hell. There were no time for fooling around. No, the number of colleges have multiplied 10 fold and everyone who leaves school can take for granted that he will be an engineer. The seriousness of school life is lost.

This is very much true.......aside, many who take it for granted tat they'll become an engineer don't even really seem to hav a clear idea of the field w/ respect to their own interests/likes......ie, every tom/dick/harry (even among girls) today just automatically say they r going to do engg......they're just like blindly running the rat race (at the end of which one remains a rat!)....

Secondly, callcenters provide employment for all graduates. Gone are the days when a commerce/arts student dreaded his lack of opportunities for employment. So basically, one can be a smooth-talking Casanova in his college days and still strike it rich in the callcenter industry :)

Hmm.....well, I'm currently pursuing B.A. in English (tat too via IGNOU) and yes, ppl. did suggest tat I work for a call centre, citing my proficency in English......but I was reluctant, despite the fact tat I cud've made a lot of money in this job, mainly 'cos in my heart of hearts, I wasn't int'd in the nature of work in ccs....(also heard from reliable sources abt the um- happenings inside most call centres.....esp. during night shifts! :wink: )....
Nevertheless I've been able to apply for a part-time job teaching spoken English here, alongside completing my grad.
Of course the pay is low but the imp. thing is its a job tat I like doing & am capable of doing on my own.....besides, I still hav 50+ yrs to build up on the money issue......so I don't want to blindly chase cash w/out even liking wat I'm doing.......but tats me! :D

Though Del/Bbay are wilder, they are not cash-rich cities like Bangalore and IT jobs are tough. Besides the exhorbitant cost of living means that youngsters there have to sweat to survive. You dont get that many opportunities to fool around, because getting a job and buying a 1 bedroom house will be a great achievement in itself.

Hmm......so, sweet r the uses of adversity?? ('rem. this from my Eng. lit. text book of Shakespeare's in 9th class :wink: :D )

Not even thinking of the women's colleges like Vaishnav, Stella Maris, Queen Marys...I heard reliable insider info that there is increasing lesbianism catching on in Stella and other unisex colls of conservative chennai.

Ohhh dear........'donno wat to say abt tat....... :shock: :roll:

napolims445

9th June 2005, 11:51 PM

as thiru said-

People in India have to realize that.... They have to make the kids realize that there is a future in everything.. The problem in India is that there is a such a gap in salary between the professionals(doctors, s/w people, Chartered accounts) and the non-professionals (clerks, officers) that people tend to enforce that the only way to make money is to be a professional.

I agree that parents should encourage their kids to do anything they want to.
but The gap in salary is for a reason-
In india doctors put in minimum of 7 years of hardwork including the 11th and 12th where they study like crazy to do their best for the medical entrance ,
engineers put in minimum of 6 years of hardwork including 11th and 12 again and struggle thro'out to outperform others..
Chartered accountants too put in minimum of 6 years of hardwork..and i heard from one of my friend that preparing for chartered accountant exams is not a joke at all...

compared to clerks and officers...
in case of commerce and arts background- not as much hardwork in 11th and 12th - they have a bindaas life compared to science students..and then they get into a 3 year degree and again not much of a hardwork and then become a clerk or an officer if he has a masters degree which again compered to the professionals hardwork is nothing.......In which case i dont see any reason why there should not be a gap in between a clerks salary and other professionals salary mentioned above....

The more hard work and efffort u put in the higher ur salary..

One thing always holds good in any big things is LUCK...which if one does not have the most intelligent person can end up being a clerk..

I really believe that the gap in salary in india has its justification.

Thiru

10th June 2005, 12:05 AM

well napoli,
the gap might be justified but the way in which the gap is created is certainly not justified... if you want to be a doctor, why should you score 90-95% in maths and physics... If I want to be a computer science engineer, why should I score 90% in chemistry which by the way has nothing to do with my future... why cant a guy be an absolute genius in biology and be very poor in physics? doesnt he deserve a chance.... Our educational system is so much theoretical that the person who can memorize 200 pages of print can end up as a doctor or an engineer... Its the marks and grades that counts and not the knowledge or talent...

lordstanher

10th June 2005, 12:11 AM

No I didnt hint that you went overboard. I was just taking an insurance helmet for myself so that no one accuses me of straying from the topic :lol2:

Ohh.....so I daresay we were suspecting each other?! :wink: :lol:

i dont know about other states, but in TN parents and educators follow the safety-first approach which is to seek out an admission into a professional course.

Same thing here in AP as well.......the irony is tat even I'd taken up Maths/Phy/Chem. in Inter (originally having aimed to study B.Arch!)......and in our college we had to undergo coaching for a popular entrance exam here called EAMCET (Engg./Agri/Med. common entrance test)......u might've heard of it?
And sum Jr. colls. give mandatory IIT coaching as well......
So it was like 8 and 1/2 hrs of college for us evryday plus an EAMCET mock test every Sunday morning.....! :banghead:
Well, ftly or unftly maths hap'd to be my bugbear, which is y I cudn't get a good enuff rank in EAMCET finally.......so gave up on this route & following a few yrs of taking roads where I kept getting lost, I finally decided to take one I knew, even tho it was less travelled by! :wink:

As you may be aware of the Landmark decision of the TN CM to do away with the Entrance Exam in Tamil Nadu - the people most affected are the 50 crore worth "teaching shops" which run rigourous crash courses for the entrance tests.

I daresay tats a wise decision?? :D Btw, do u mean ent. exams inc. TNCET (heard abt it from a friend once....)??

[In AP too, there are these IIT prep trainers like Narayana Institute which are into this industry. Atleast they are much much better than their TN counterparts :) ].

Um....I was aware tat Narayana gave prep. for EAMCET.......not sure if it gives for IIT as well.......in Hyd. however, there r 2 competing institutes exclusively for IIT prep. considered to be the best there- Ramaiah's and Krishnamurthy study centre.......
As for them being better, depends on how u define 'better'? :wink:

The other thing is that, the responsibility of teaching is solely left to the educators, parents absolve themselves of all responsibilities and no one looks at the home as a stage for learning.

Very true again.......parents only know when to complain tat their kids ren't studying at home at all during the parents' meet......'known it from my own experience! :wink:
Little do they realise: "parents r our first teachers"...... :wink:
In fact I even came across this fitting quote from a site:

"Young people do not learn only in school. Their surroundings and the times in which they live have as much, if not more, influence on them than teachers!"

There was a phase during my time that it was 'uncool' to be seen shopping/outing around with one's parents, dont know if that idea still holds today!

I was dimly aware of it existing during my schooldays as well.......when I was in 7th, I rem. my classmates commenting in awe abt spotting me once going shopping w/ my mother! :D

napolims445

10th June 2005, 12:39 AM

Our educational system is so much theoretical that the person who can memorize 200 pages of print can end up as a doctor or an engineer... Its the marks and grades that counts and not the knowledge or talent...

I understand that our educational system is full of flaws.
But as u say that just by memorising 200 pages a person cannot cannot become a doctor or engineer...may be in his whole career he might have memorised 10%-15% of his studies..memorising may help in 11th and 12th to get marks but not in professional degree courses where questions are based on practicality which comes from real knowledge and concepts.

there is a saying if u are aware of-
"College is a place where diamonds are dimmed and pebbles are polished"
I agree completely with that...

Thiru

10th June 2005, 01:19 AM

True... but the damage had already been done..... the problem is the fact that the guy who memorizes will still walk out with a professional degree (may be not as the topper) whereas the other guy has to choose a different profession altogether....

hehehewalrus

10th June 2005, 03:22 AM

Regarding the points in Thiru vs Napolims debate, I do not think it is feasible in our system for a person to be strong in Subject X, weak in Subject Y and still pursue Subject X in depth - Our educational system does not have enough infrastructure or facilities to have large number of courses like American Universities. Few courses, large candidates - hence Elimination system is a necessary evil to determine the selection of candidates. If we change the system to accomodate weak areas of everyone, then really no one can be eliminated.

Secondly, while there are lot of areas of improvements, I will not fail to neglect the positive aspects of the system. For instance, the TN method of placing emphasis on mugging and reproduction has been bashed by everyone - I still appreciate some aspects of the system. Our mother tongue is not English but still throughout our education, the medium of instruction is English. There are so many who may grasp the subject in their minds but their power of expression is poor. They will not be able to transmit their thoughts effectively using their own words. Even though I studied 14 years in an English-emphasising school, I lacked fluency and power of expression in English till the time I joined the workforce - it was only after regular usage that I was able to improve in this area.

I know sufficient number of people from moderately educated backgrounds(both parents at most High school only) who did masters in top universities abroad and transformed their family situation. All these people started as "Muggus" writing answers to questions 5 to 10 times in the beginning, then gradually learnt proper methods of study. I dont think CBSE would allow that especially if your ability to convey ideas in own words is restricted. So there are definitely some postives in the "Muggu" system.

And abt the demerits and lifestyles of people working in BPOs, there are many many youngsters from poor backgrounds who are able to support their families with earnings of 5K or 6K per month. Call Centers are not just for posh spending/loose living kids(that will honestly be less than 20% I dare to say). Leave the negative aspects aside, call centers have given livelihood to many hopeless youth.

About parents pushing their children and driving them to wrong goals, I will share a true experience. In school, I had opted for foreign Lang in my Language elective, since after initial investment, it was a high scoring option and demanded little study - this helped me to concentrate on my more important science subjects. While I was finishing school, my mother's friend sought advice for her daughter on the Language elective. Despite my opinions, my mother convinced her to pick up tamil, stating that her own son learnt zero tamil in his school. Years passed by and when the girl finished school, she missed an engineering seat in a good college by a whisker - I am definitely sure she would have made it if she had decided smartly and practically instead of using sentiments !!

NOTE: There are good and bad in any system, do not waste time fighting or resisting any system. Compromises have to take place some time or the other. (An example is that of recent laws banning bar girls in Chennai/Mumbai restaurants - they banned the profession and within one week 80% of the bar girls were about to take to prostitution as the only source of income for their families in small cities) IF THERE IS SOMETHING GOOD THE SYSTEM LACKED, TAKE PERSONAL INITIATIVE LATER ON AND PRACTISE IT BY YOUR OWN EFFORT INSTEAD OF EXPECTING A COMPLETE OVERHAUL OF THE SYSTEM.