Divorce- End of woes or beginning?

[scorpio]

Hi all,

I wanted to discuss about the increasing percentage of divorce cases especially among young couples. I have a team member in my team who is a recent victim of divorce after a turbulent marriage. A young software engineer she is, fell in love and got married a couple of years back. Her life was a roller coaster ride since day 1, with both of them quite egoistic and financially independent. She claims her husband hardly cared about maintaining the house and related domestic chores and she had a dual responsibility of managing both her career and home single handedly. Daily fights matured into severe arguments and after she gave birth to a baby girl few months back, her domestic burden is unmountable. She has served a lawyer notice to him for separation. I really feel sorry for her and I think she has taken a very harsh decision not thinking about how the society will treat her, that too being a single mother. On the other hand, as a project manager, I feel this turbulence eats too much into her productivity in work. Being a love marriage that has ended in agony, her parents too support their daughter getting separated from the husband.

Now, as a well wisher and senior, should I talk to her and convince her to give him one more chance?? Or, wait for her to get her separation so that she can concentrate on my project?? Why are youngsters so impulsive these days?? Any suggestions???

[NM]

Scorpio,
Is she close to you? If yes, I don't see why you shouldn't talk to her. I did to a close friend of mine, long time ago and luckily they patched up!! Perhaps she's undergoing post natal depression? And, her mom's not helping either!! Or maybe, you could talk to her mom :wink:
But, i do agree, youngsters today are very impulsive, its as thought divorce is a priviledge to be used as and when required! :roll:

[nirosha sen]

Well, if acrimony is the order of the day, then a trial separation might be in order, Pa!! NM is right, sometimes it's just post-natal depression but the atmosphere hadn't been conducive earlier either, right????

I feel sorry for those who choose their own partners, Pa!! We are always thrown into the deep-end with no other life-line except ourselves to turn to!!

Problem is most couples don't know the burden of marriage until they tie the knot!! Before that, it was all lovey-dovey!! Seeing eachother only as an aside from the mainstream of one's existence!! The pressure only builds up when we start living with eachother and learn to adjust to one another's quirks! :(

[viggop]

It is the beginning of woes for the baby.

A baby needs both the father and mother and this has been established by scientific studies.
Single mother/Single fathers are not good for the overall development of the child.

Hope both of them throw away their big egos.Then,everything else will fall into place

[aravindhan]

I feel sorry for those who choose their own partners, Pa!! We are always thrown into the deep-end with no other life-line except ourselves to turn to!!
Not necessarily - the way it worked out for us, my mother-in-law always takes my side and my mother always takes my wife's side, so we have each other's mothers as a life-line to turn to in case of trouble!


Problem is most couples don't know the burden of marriage until they tie the knot!! Before that, it was all lovey-dovey!! Seeing eachother only as an aside from the mainstream of one's existence!! The pressure only builds up when we start living with eachother and learn to adjust to one another's quirks! :(
I suppose it depends on the priorities of the people concerned.
அன்பிலார் எல்லாம் தமக்குரியர் அன்புடையார்
என்பும் உரியர் பிறர்க்கு.

[scorpio]

It is the beginning of woes for the baby.

A baby needs both the father and mother and this has been established by scientific studies.
Single mother/Single fathers are not good for the overall development of the child.

Hope both of them throw away their big egos.Then,everything else will fall into place

viggop,

I fully agree with your post..That's why, I'm in a dilemma whether I should talk to her on this issue. On the other hand, I strictly have a boss-subordinate relationship with my team members and feel a bit delicate to discuss personal issues like this. I only give a shoulder to weep when they feel like but do not force my personal opinions on them.. I know for sure, it is not an easy task to raise a girl child being a single mother, that too, in a conservative city like Chennai.

NM - No way, I can talk to the girl's mother and all.. I think it would be best for both of them to visit a marriage counsellor.. but not sure if such people are easily available and approachable in Chennai..moreso, there is no use in only this girl going for counselling..it's the husband who needs to understand that married life is something that has to be jointly pulled by both of them...

Aravindhan - You are lucky. Love marriage has worked very well in my case also..but the truth is, not many couples fall in this category.

Niro - The case I quoted is only an example.. Have come across many such separations in my career so far...Pudhumai pengal??? :oops:

[Anoushka]

Scorpio:

Very interesting topic! Your team member's reasons for divorce seems to be trivial! It seems to be more of a ego clash problem between the husband and wife. Which could be sorted out on counselling.

What your team member should think about is if she cannot live with this guy, can she survive alone, can she live with another guy, etc. How long will her parent's support her? She now has a child, if she thinks about re-marriage, will her new hubby treat the daughter the same way the child's father would treat her?

Most people these days think divorce is a solution to their problem, but do not realise that it is only a way of escape and that the problem does not stop there!

There are genuine cases where divorce is a solution, but the above case does not seem so!

There is definetly a change in the way people think these days. It is more like "Life is short, you do not seem to think my way and I do not want to waste my entire life with you" attitude. People don't realise that two people with entirely different opinions and ideas can live together quite happily without any problem!

I would suggest that you talk to your team member and send her to a proper counsellor before things go way out of hand! Even if she gets her seperation I doubt if she will be able to concentrate on her project...

[krishnan]

Are you concerned about your project or her? If it's your project you will have hundreds of people in Q even if she is not able to productively contribute to it. If it's her then why did you bring your project management issue and club it with her personal problems? As wise men say Personal problems should get more priority and attention than work.

If it were one of my team members I would give him / her couple of weeks vacation, and would suggest the couple to go to some resort or book cabin log at smokies and talk (sort) it out and it does help. In one of the cases where the problem was more serious and involved some kind of domestic violence (needless to say she is an Indian) where she dosen't want to complain but just wanted to get divorced, we terminated her contract (she happened to be a sub-contractor), assured her that we'll re-instate her contract and gave her 3 months break. And believe me it worked, and they are happy together now. The only thing that went wrong in that plan was we were able to bring her back only after 6 mons and not in 3 months as promised :) :) . So I would suggest you to give her the break she deserves and point her to a counsellor or give her some vacation ideas and let them sort it themselves without giving heavy handed advices. Afterall both are professionals and hope they are matured enough to handle their personal problems.

[hehehewalrus]

Are you concerned about your project or her? If it's your project you will have hundreds of people in Q even if she is not able to productively contribute to it. If it's her then why did you bring your project management issue and club it with her personal problems? As wise men say Personal problems should get more priority and attention than work.

Why the hell should a team suffer just because 2 immature individuals cant patch up some (ir)reconciliable differences????? It is childish to state such suggestions. Welcome to the real world. As a responsible adult(and parent) one should know how to give atleast 75%(100% is impossible in this case) in the workplace even if the home is hell.


If it were one of my team members I would give him / her couple of weeks vacation, and would suggest the couple to go to some resort or book cabin log at smokies and talk (sort) it out and it does help.
Shankar borrowed "Kadhalan" script from you :P

[krishnan]

Are you concerned about your project or her? If it's your project you will have hundreds of people in Q even if she is not able to productively contribute to it. If it's her then why did you bring your project management issue and club it with her personal problems? As wise men say Personal problems should get more priority and attention than work.

Why the hell should a team suffer just because 2 immature individuals cant patch up some (ir)reconciliable differences????? It is childish to state such suggestions. Welcome to the real world. As a responsible adult(and parent) one should know how to give atleast 75%(100% is impossible in this case) in the workplace even if the home is hell.


If it were one of my team members I would give him / her couple of weeks vacation, and would suggest the couple to go to some resort or book cabin log at smokies and talk (sort) it out and it does help.
Shankar borrowed "Kadhalan" script from you :P

Walrus,

Are you serious? Giving 75% when you are emotionally disturbed? I am not sure about you (as you have he he he in your name I assume that you take everything lighter in your life :D :D ) but to any normal human beings even 10% concentration during trying times is too much to expect. My father met with a bad accident 4 years ago, I was in US expecting advance parole and I was too disturbed that I just could'nt even drive in proper lane let alone concentrating on work.

[hehehewalrus]

Walrus,
Are you serious? Giving 75% when you are emotionally disturbed? I am not sure about you

krishnan bhai,
problems are there for everyone. There are 100s of software youngsters who have fights, breakups with gfriends/bfriends. It's all a part of today's cultural fabric. We cant be giving latitude in every situation.

atleast in this case, the girl's manager comes here to ask ways to help her. Most managers in indian IT industry are rapacious and uncaring(esp. men!). If they find an emotionally unstable employee, they will do their best to avoid getting him into their project and instead look for other workhorses. The disillusioned employee floats around aimlessly, performs badly, gets a bad apprisal or the pink slip.

This girl is in her early days in her career and in future will meet more and more demanding and unscrupulous bosses. A cushion effect here will cause an unconscious expectation from future situations and lead to further disappointments in the workplace. My opinion is that during all the vicissitudes of fate, work is often the best antidote. In fact the best solution as well, as it will take her mind off the problem

[Anoushka]

Scorpio:

If you are wondering about counsellors, there are many available now. Each big hospital (like Vijaya, Apollo, Malar, etc) have people to deal with these problems so just direct your team member to one of them! It works wonders...

[krishnan]

Walrus,

I suggested scorpio at the first place because she seemed to be a concerning manager:):). I do agree that most Indian managers expect their sub-ordinates to come to work straight from the hospital after delivering a baby and only thing that bothers them is just their work and not the personal problems of their sub-ordinates. So my suggestions are strictly for concerned bosses and if the resource is too good that you can't afford to loose them.

And yes as you said I would'nt knowingly hire a person who seems to be disturbed. But having hired someone and if he / she has proven themselves and are reasonably good resources then I'll try my best to keep them in the team as far as I can.

[Sudhaama]

DIVORCE... End of Woes.. or Beginning..?

As the Couple concerned make it...

...In which... a WIFE can have a MIGHTIER and More Effective ROLE.

[NM]

Scorpio,
Barathi kanda Puthumai Penn inthe maathiri penn alla! :)
If divorce is the only thing they can think of to get out of this situation, then, its too bad. I see these kind of things happening with girls/guys who have always led a sheltered life. I don't want to misjudge the girl here as I don't know her, but, i've seen many couples split up for silly reasons. And this will escalate when the baby arrives and if there's no one to "talk" to the couple..I don't know if people would want to go for help ie counsellors etc cos' of pride and all...
Anyway, i really think you should at least talk her into going to the counsellors.. :wink: And viggop is right, perhaps you can use that situation to persuade her??

[NOV]

Scorpio

Professionally, you should not get involved. I am sure you are aware of this basic work ethic.

Personally too, I think you should not.
Unless, she first approaches you and wants to discuss the problem. Most bosses think that their subordinates think highly of them and respect them as a person. I am sorry to break the bubble, but in most cases the subordinate has scant respect for the bosses views, opinions or advise and only tolerate them because of their job. ;)

If she really wants to talk, I suggest that you take her away from the office and offer a listening ear as a friend.
Most people anyway, know what they want to do and only talk to you hoping that you will agree with thier decisions. ;)
If you must advise, please be positive - always be in awe of your power over a troubled soul. Talk responsibly and above all, remember that you only are hearing one side of the story.

If you ask me, couples with problems should only talk to independent, non-biased marriage counselors.

[Badri]

Akka: As callous as this may sound, did the girl approach you and say, "Scorps, I am in deep trouble. Dunno what to do. Can you help me?"

If she didn't, then I'd say this is not your problem. Even directing her to a marriage counsellor is not really your job unless she approached you for help. Or unless her being distracted is costing your project too much. In which case too, you must know your limits or you will be treading into dangerous waters.

Assuming that she did come to you for help, again, I think only a professional would be best equipped to help her. You might be influenced by your own personal set of values, the limited knowledge you have of her personality, her background, his personality and background etc. For instance, already your post indicates you do not think this a wise move (use of expressions like "she claims" or "harsh decision". Chances are that if you try to help her out, you'd only be imposing that view on her, while it clearly maynot be the best thing for her.

The long and short of it is: It is not your business, and the best thing you can do is to ask her see a counsellor or talk to family.

Sometimes, wiser and mature members of the family are the best counselllors, having seen her from her childhood and aware of all aspects of the situation and not merely that voiced by the person concerned.

[scorpio]

Hi,
Thanks everyone for yr contributions..

Krishnan,

I need to care about my project as well as I take the first responsibility for a bad delivery. At the same time, I just cannot ask for a replacement for this girl as it will spoil her career in the company. That would have been the easiest thing for me to do, just raise a resource request and release her. Thanks for yr concern but I have no luxury to grant a 2 weeks vacation :)

Walrus -Check my PM :)

NOV ,Badri -More or less same views.. No, she didn't come and ask me what she should do.. but, if she sits in team meetings with a wet handkerchief and rubbing eyelids, it really puts me off and others as well.

I'm just back after a brief meeting with the HR head. I understand fully that I'm already biased that her option of divorce is totally wrong and would certainly advocate it to her whether she likes it or not, if I sit for a discussion... Just appraised my HR head of the issue and requested him to have a one-to-one sitting with her..she'll feel more at home discussing about personal issues with a Personnel Manager than a project manager :) Very experienced and a through professional he is, I hope he can amicably guide her into whatever she decides would suit her best..

[Anoushka]

Good decision Scorpio! Here there are a few companies where the HR guys actually send people to counsellors for problems like these. That helps quite a bit!

[simplysimran]

Children should be given the most consideration when considering divorce, every problem will have a solution, it's just some try to avoid it rather than face it, some ignore little misunderstanding which leads to bigger disputes leaving both couple in bitterness.

Women can put with any men, except alcoholic / abusive husbands and womenisers.

Indian divorce rate is high abroad, it is rather sad and shocking :cry: :cry:

[blahblah]

Women can put with any men, except alcoholic / abusive husbands and womenisers.


Uhmm!!!!!!

I am not so convinced.I have grown up in a cicumstance where everyone drinks and almost daily.I had a feeling that women prefer to be with honest men who have a weakness for alcohol than with frauds who do not drink. :D

[rajasaranam]

Women can put with any men, except alcoholic / abusive husbands and womenisers.


Uhmm!!!!!!

I am not so convinced.I have grown up in a cicumstance where everyone drinks and almost daily.I had a feeling that women prefer to be with honest men who have a weakness for alcohol than with frauds who do not drink. :D

Though i agree with blahblah we should also note that if alcohol is combined with abuse then it really makes a wife hate a husband :?

[Raghu]

Women can put with any men, except alcoholic / abusive husbands and womenisers.


Uhmm!!!!!!

I am not so convinced.I have grown up in a cicumstance where everyone drinks and almost daily.I had a feeling that women prefer to be with honest men who have a weakness for alcohol than with frauds who do not drink. :D

Yes, so that they can empty the wallet of Drunken husbands

[a.ratchasi]

I am not so convinced.I have grown up in a cicumstance where everyone drinks and almost daily.I had a feeling that women prefer to be with honest men who have a weakness for alcohol than with frauds who do not drink. :D

Yeah, I agree to what you have said, blahblah.

[nirosha sen]

This couple sounds rather too young to be calling it quits, Pa!! I think the option for divorce is merely a ruse to bring the other partner to heel!! It's a whole lot of misplaced anger at work at worst! Obviously, forgive and forget is not there yet!

If she's sitting there crying out her eyes even during meetings, no harm in having a pep talk Pa!! Sure, we can all say, look the other way! But we are all humans, not automatons, who could just keep the nose to the grindstone!! Reaching out to a hurting human being is quite simply humane!!

I think Scorpio - what you are trying to gauge here is itself, an effort to see if you could test the waters too, Pa!! As a Woman to another, I say go for it!!

Talk to her and help her!! At least you could ease your conscience now. What if the situation got out of hand??? All that pent-up hurt might even lead to suicide or something????? Be a kind soul, Pa!! TALK TO HER!!

[scorpio]

Niro,

I agree with yr views. I can sense that she approached the lawyer to scare that guy primarily and make him bend. Now that it is not happening, she must be worried about her future and her kid's but her ego is too big to mend the tear.

'Talk to her' - That's what my HR will do. I feel it is best handled by them who are trained in personnel relations than me. I'm making her to join me for lunch for the past couple of days and make her feel comfortable. I really hope things will take a pleasant turn for her..

[a.ratchasi]

scorpio, this sounds like another ' triple somersault' case. :wink:
My advice is, don't jeopardise your reputation.

[nirosha sen]

Ratchasi - What is this triple somersault, Pa??? What are your misgivings???? Please share them too. It maybe somebody else's pain we are discussing here, but marital woes are not confined to any one couple.

So do share, Pa! :D

[Querida]

Women can put with any men, except alcoholic / abusive husbands and womenisers.

oh they put up with them alright...just the children have to suffer because of her bitter 'sacrifice'...at situations such as those i have to blame the woman just as much as the man...blahblah is true as well i guess....though non-drinkers are good frauds then :P but only wealthy women get away with comfortable lives - any emotional trauma...all others have over major finance problems...most of unemployed here are single mothers....dare i say the utter horror caused by her new-found depression/drug-use/alcoholism and fiend of a new bf? :x

[blahblah]

oh they put up with them alright...just the children have to suffer because of her bitter 'sacrifice'...at situations such as those i have to blame the woman just as much as the man...blahblah is true as well i guess....though non-drinkers are good frauds then :P but only wealthy women get away with comfortable lives - any emotional trauma...all others have over major finance problems...most of unemployed here are single mothers....dare i say the utter horror caused by her new-found depression/drug-use/alcoholism and fiend of a new bf? :x

I have seen a lot of families breaking up, and according to me the main reasons are infidelity,dishonesty and ofcourse,drug abuse and alcoholism.,of which,alcoholism comes last!One of my close friends[female,whom I have accompanied to the family court many times] told me that she would have put up with her man if only he was honest ,and if people from every company he worked for , didn't come looking for him.He was a cheat and she hated him for just that reason.

It is my belief that a woman will willingly sacrifice her whole life even for a poor husband and stay with him in poverty and sickness provided that he doesn't offend her dignity as a woman.'Love' is a magic word and that will hold lives together in happiness and poverty,in sickness and good health,in happiness and grief! :D

[nirosha sen]

The other is indifference, Pa!! Nothing could kill a woman's spirit than the dying of that spark that had kindled their love, in the 1st place!

In the absence of any kind of nurturing, a marriage just wastes away and descends into mere existence minus the warmth to keep home and hearth warm........ :(

[Shekhar]

Hi,

Scorpio, (the boss :) ) What Nov is saying has a lot of sense. You do not have any right to give her any advise unless she has solicited. How much do you know about her or her husband that you can solve their problem? They are the best judges of themselves and their relationship. Only they can solve their problems (if they really want to). They are responsible for their marriage, you are not, nor have you got any right to interfere. They are adults so let them handle their lives.
More damage in this world is caused by do gooders with their good intentions than bad people.

Btw,
Do you know husbands may NEED alcohal to savour their marriage? :lol: :lol:

[a.ratchasi]

Ratchasi - What is this triple somersault, Pa??? What are your misgivings???? Please share them too.
So do share, Pa! :D

Me mentioning no names here, Niro, but I think we all did experience a similar scenario just weeks earlier thanks to a kind and understanding 'sis'.


maybe somebody else's pain
You got that right, Niro. It is somebody else's pain. Nobody knows the actual scenario. Not you, scorpio or myself for that matter. Our speculation will be based on nothing. My question is, how would a speculation based on nothing help the couple?
The girl did not approach scorpio. Nor is scorpio aware of her family background to gauge the girl's possible outlook in the matter.


marital woes are not confined to any one couple
Agreed, but not all marital woes are the same and there is no single winning formula that we can reuse again and again to end the anguish faced by one and all. A minor incident in one couple's life wont be as such in another.

Coming back to the thread, scorpio had asked whether she should be uninvited counselor, my answer is definately no-again!:wink:

[blahblah]

Coming back to the thread, scorpio had asked whether she should be uninvited counselor, my answer is definately no-again!:wink:

Come on Ratchasi,it makes sense for sure! :D

And I don't think even invited counsellors can do much in a marriage either.You can't answer a question which runs into a full paragraph by just reading the first line.It would be better if the people who pose those questions answer it themselves.

A marriage is between just two people and anything beyond that is an intolereable excess. :cry:

[nirosha sen]

A marriage is between just two people and anything beyond that is an intolereable excess.

What do you mean by the above statement, Pa????? I thought this couple was going thru a break-up! By the look of it, being a concerned superior in the project, Scorpio was trying to reach-out. Do you think that's wrong????? :roll:

[blahblah]

What do you mean by the above statement, Pa????? I thought this couple was going thru a break-up! By the look of it, being a concerned superior in the project, Scorpio was trying to reach-out. Do you think that's wrong????? :roll:

Concerned superiors are supposed to work on their own projects.Reaching out in to marriages is always an excess.And I believe that is wrong.A marriage is supposed to be between two individuals and unless they can solve their problems between themselves,I would suggest that they break up.I am sure that the people involved have as much thinking capacity as you or me.

Thank God I am not a problem solver!