Periodic Table And Planets

[Nichiro]

Dear Friends,

I have removed this topic and decided to become dormant for good.

Nichiro

[Nichiro]

Next article I will post on Pi and Rahu .

[Niranjana]

Can u pls keep ur posts shorter. It would be easier to read then.
Anyway, it is definitey an interesting topic.

[Sudhaama]

Dear Nichiro,

Quite Interesting... Thanks for your Nice presentation in a simple Language..

But I am sorry to point out... rather suggest... that the Title of the Thread... is LACK-LUSTRE.. so to say is neither attractive not luring enough nor TRULY CONVEY its purpose on the Content ... for the viewers.

Why Not call it... as anyone of the following ? ...as...

(1) GREAT Astrology.!!!

(2) Updated ASTROLOGY

(3) Astrological-Mysteries !!!

(4) Astrology for the COMMONER....

(5) ASTROLOGY the Divine-Science

On this open-minded comment ...I hope you will not take me amiss.

[Nichiro]

Respected Sudhaamaji,

The original title was Astrology And Modern Science ...the scientific proof.
But the problem that I found too much of anti feeling for Astrology. (I think you know this by now).
My next posting in this direction is much more interesting.
Hope you like it.

Nichiro :?:

[Sudhaama]

Dear Mr. Nichiro,

Thanks for your prompt reply.... I am sorry to differ with you... that you are constantly keepinmg in mind ONLY the Opponents Critics and Mockerers... and not beyond...

... towards the DUE crowd of People keenly interested in your USEFUL AND HIGHLY RICH... educative... informative... and enlightening... UPDATED Treasure for the Modern Mankind....

... for WHOSE SAKE ONLY... you are taking so much pains to present here.... and WHOM you have forgotten ... in this aspect...

I hope you might have observed ... how much of... Mockery.. Ridicules.. Criticisms.. Oppositions.. obstructions.... senseless blabbers.. angry attacks... Insults and Hurts.... I am confronting under my various Threads here...

But I consider them... in one way...

... God-given VARIOUS TYPES OF CHISELS AND HAMMERS or such other Tools and DUSTERS...

...helping me to shape my Stone-presentations into better-formed Sculptures

This is the REALITY OF LIFE... We have to LIVE WITH... Am I wrong ?

[r_kk]

Coming back to Astrology, I took up the Astronomical position of Sun and its planets one by one in order of its distance from Sun. And gave lordship on this basis.


4th group leader is Earth and Rahu (Dragon Head)
7th A group leader is Rahu and Moon
ZERO (9th) group belongs to Ketu (Dragon Tail)

Since Vedic astrology has ascribed only Nine planets, 8th group is under Saturn.


Dear Mr. Nichiro
It is nice to note that you are intending to write the scientific basis of astrology. Even though I am not able to consider a "yahoo astrological group" as a eligibile scientific society or journal, I respect your intention to prove a link between the ancestral knowledge with modern science. I have few question to start with.

You had mentioned that you numbered the planets based on it distance from sun. Please explain.
1. What is the equal astronomical term for "Raku" and "Ketu"?
2. Why Moon is at 7th position? Is it based on distance from sun?
3. Why moons of other planets are not taken in to account?
4. Where are the other planets like Uranus, Neptune and Pluto? When you say nine planets, does it mean the major 9 astronomically proven planets or some hypothetical ones?

I hope at least you will not consider my questions as useless interference!!!

[Nichiro]

[/quote]

Even though I am not able to consider a "yahoo astrological group" as a eligibile scientific society or journal, I respect your intention to prove a link between the ancestral knowledge with modern science. [/quote]

Dear r_kk,

I have written about Rahu and Ketu in other thread just now. Please follow the link to know more.

The group that I have posted these article are IMHO the best ever astrologically sound groups moderated by IITians.
I do not want to generate poitless discussions by posting in scientific journals . Their basis and Astrologer's basis may differ.

Moon's position is taken as 7th based on Karakatwa .
Effect of Moons of Saturn, Jupiter etc is compounded with those planets since those Moons are too near those planets and too far from Earth.
Since we are discussing about Vedic astrology, we will discuss planets described by ancient seers.
Planets like Neptune,Uranus , pluto etc are represented by Mercury, Saturn and Mars. who own two houses each .

[r_kk]

Dear Mr. Nichiro,
I had gone through the link provided by you in other thread, explaining Rahu and Ketu.

Are you intending to say the lunar nodes (shadows of the moon) as planets? What kind of influence these shadows can make on human life?

Do you consider Sun as planet or Star?

Can you explain why thousands of people died in Tsunami? Do you think all those died have some thing common in their horoscope?


Please explain...

[a.ratchasi]

Can you explain why thousands of people died in Tsunami? Do you think all those died have some thing common in their horoscope?

Please explain...

I have been asking questions in similar vein, but to date have not received any sound input.

Hope to hear Mr Nichiro's stand on this.
Thanks, r_kk.

[Nichiro]

Hello r_kk and Ms. Ratchasi,

Sorry to keep you waiting.

Lunar nodes are very powerful points which affect people when Luna/Sun or other plantes are under their influence by being near those points.
They have power similar to a planet hence they are equated to real planets. They are called CHHAAYA GRIHAS.

My research has totally been on Rahu/ketu and if Forum Hub has no objection, I can post articles published in astro groups as to How they affect Human/Mundane lives.

Vedic astrology is Geocentric astrology . Sun is considered as a planet.

Nakshatras are stars.


"Birds of a feather Flock together"
Says a saying in English.
Also you might have seen school of fish.
When these fish/birds are netted, almost all of them are caught/killed.

People having similarity in planetary placements/running maraka dasa periods etc , congragate at a place .
Some event takes place which kills them.
Death is indicated in each and every horoscope.

Hope this satisfies you my friends.

Nichiro :?:

[r_kk]

[tscii]
Hello r_kk and Ms. Ratchasi,

Vedic astrology is Geocentric astrology . Sun is considered as a planet. Nakshatras are stars.

People having similarity in planetary placements/running maraka dasa periods etc , congragate at a place .Some event takes place which kills them.

Death is indicated in each and every horoscope.

Hope this satisfies you my friends.
Nichiro :?:

(bold mark/coloring is done me)

Dear Mr. Nichiro,

Do you really convinced with your own reply?

You said your assumption about planet is geo-centric. Is it true? If you say that you are looking in earth’s perspective, do you assume that the other so called planet also moves with respect to earth?

I feel that your explanation about mass tragedies is totally baseless. This is where astrology miserably fails. If as astrologer claims, horoscope can predict even a small tragic or happiest part of life in life, then how such major tragedies in so many peoples life were not forecasted? If you want to claim astrology as any kind of science (leave so-called divine!!!), can you randomly pick up 10 people died in Tsunami or any major accident/disaster and find out all or at least 75% of the samples had some thing in common (yours so-called similarity of “planetary placements/running maraka dasa periods” etc etc). I make this challenge to any astrologer, who claims astrology as science.

[Nichiro]

Dear r_kk,
Please believe in what you want. I am not forcing you to.
I have not advocated Astrology in my posting on Rahu.
Geo-centric placement is forconvenience .It does not make planets having earth as centre.
Since I do not want to be dragged into poinless controversies, I will not make further comments in this direction.
If you want, please start posting articles as to why Astrology is not a science with proof.
I will neither argue with you nor will I discourage you.

Nichiro

Nichiro

[r_kk]

Dear Nichiro,
Sorry to say that this is where people believe in astrology stops their discussions.

You have not answered to neigther a.r or my basic question.

You are putting the burden of proof on the people those who are rejecting the astrology. Please note that the burden of proof lies with those who claims... that is with you.

Ok, please go ahead with your scientific postings here. I will try to place the alternate views whether you like it or not.

[Sudhaama]

"r_kk"

// Dear Mr. Nichiro... Ok, please go ahead with your scientific postings here. I will try to place the alternate views whether you like it or not.//

Dear Mr. r_kk,

You are WELCOME to continue as you feel proper. I am glad you are raising wise Questions, which are the healthy auguries towards our deep thinking and clarifications ... ensuring a thought-provoking lively presentation here...

... duly meaningful and valuable for the Viewers.... instead of making this as a Class-room or a Lecture-Hall... or a Thesis paper only relevant to Professionals.

As far as possible I will try to answer your Questions... after waiting for the Professional-Experts like Mr. Nichiro.

... Because contrary to Mr. Nichiro I am only just a Client for Astrologers So in the angle of a Customer or Client ... whatever I have gained Knowledge on this subject ... since the past more than 6 decades....out of my own Scientific Curiosity... I am putting forth here.

.. And my answers are based on the AUTHENTIC- HEARSAY Parrot-Knowledge I gained by analytical reading of several Books and Articles... apart from personal discussions with several Expert-Astrologers.

However I give the due honour to Mr. Nichiro being the Research- Scholar professional in the Field.. So I invite him to VETO my statements ... whenever he feels wrong or misconceived.

And please don't get discouraged or upset by the unpalatable reply from Mr. Nichiro... Please take his wordings in the HEALTHY-SENSE. He means some people the Obstinate Non- believers of Astrology.... who used to be bent upon... repeatedly raising dry-questions... drifting away from the Main-factor... disagreeing and arguing on any and every point clarified....

... because such people have DECIDED TO DISAGREE... similar to the case of Opponent- Lawyers in the Courts of Law..

.. So any amount of Clarification to such Obstinate persons closing their eyes to Truth... . because they are not sleeping but JUST CLOSING THEIR EYES... since already awake.

Is it not a sheer WASTE OF TIME AND ENERGY ... to deal with such such Obstinates?

Whereas there are some other sort of people... who are radically IGNORANT on the subject... and used to mock at it... while curious to get clarified....(I was one such Mockerer laughing at all the People and the Subject as well ... as Bogus.. about 50 years back during my Youth- days)

We don't know so far... which one of these Categories you belong to. So Mr. Nichiro avoids you...

But I need some more time .... to understand you ... correctly.

// ..Sorry to say that this is where people believe in astrology stops their discussions. ... You have not answered to neigther a.r or my basic question. ... You are putting the burden of proof on the people those who are rejecting the astrology. Please note that the burden of proof lies with those who claims... that is with you.//

With all the hopeful optimism about you.... I proceed to reply.. to your Questions.

// Rahu and Ketu.... Are you intending to say the lunar nodes (shadows of the moon) as planets? What kind of influence these shadows can make on human life?//

Rahu and Kethu are called as "Chaya-Grahas" in Astrology... to mean as the Shady-planets, with No Solid-forms of their own. But such shades themselves are very powerful... especially these being the Malefic-planets by nature according to this subject.

For example ... the Rays from Eclipsed Sun or Moon are more Powerful than the Common-rays emanating from Sun and Moon on the normal days.... according to both Astronomical-Science and Astrology as well.

So these Malefic-planets cause peculiar and unusual effects on the person concerned according to their placements, aspects and such other factors.

People who are mad of learning and practising on unusual or rare subjects and Careers... like Magicians, Snake-Charmers, Circus-play,.... Thieving- Craze despite born richness... etc.... are the UNMISTAKEABLE POSSESSORS of Horoscoipes with unusual placements of Rahu and Kethu in their Horoscopes.

Just on one glance of such a Horoscope... even I (A NON-ASTROLOGER) can firmly assert so... about a stranger totally unknown to me....

... as also I can reply (and Identify the particular Boy) to a Snake-Charmer... if he asks me... why one of his Sons of only moderate Intelligence... is bent upon getting highly educated by studying at far off places... taking much physical-strain... throwing-away his Kula-Thozhil (Family-Career) of Snake-catching and making a sumptuous earning easily with least endeavour (following his Father)...

... Contrary to his another Son... a highly Wise and consistent Top-ranker in Studies... but not interesed in further Studies but interested in his Father's Career of roaming in the forest and Snakecatching or Charming... by better methods using his high Wisdom...

... along with his Class-mate who too wants to join with him ..(whose father nor anybody in his family was NOT a Snake-Charmer)

Only to those who know Astrology...Rahu-Kethu show their Hood and Tail... but hiding in the Horoscopes.

//Do you consider Sun as planet or Star?//

Astrologically Sun too is a Planet... since it renders the similar effect and power in a Horoscope like other planets

//Can you explain why thousands of people died in Tsunami?//

// Do you think all those died have some thing common in their horoscope?//

... To continue...

[Nichiro]

Respected Sudhaama ji,
Thanks for taking it upon yourself to explain .
You have correctly written about what I think and feel in not replying or not entering in Vithandavaadam.
Thanks again.
Nichiro

[r_kk]

.... not entering in Vithandavaadam.
Nichiro

Dear Mr. Nichiro,

If you ask any one who studied little bit of science in their life, they will raise similar questions. If you have to call any thing as science, it should have a verifiable and repeatable proofs under controlled conditions/on random samples. Superimposing some forecast on selective incidence is called pseudo science. If any one claims Astrology as science or a valid system, they have to prove their claims through scientifically verifiable process. If you want to call such scientific way of analysing a method as "vithandavaadam" and shy away from replying by blaming the opponent, then I have to assume that your so called theories are for people without any thinking ablities and you are purposefully trying to deceive those.

[Nichiro]

From today, I have decided to be a dormant member only.

[r_kk]

Dear Mr. Nichiro,
It is sad to note that you are leaving the disucussion at middle. 12 hours back I was drafting a post requesting you to participate in a joint case study based on verifiable actual field data. I am very keen and open mind to understand real truth behind astrology. Whenever you feel ready for such scientific process of verification, please come back to this thread or pm to me.

[Sudhaama]

Nichiro"

//From today, I have decided to be a dormant member only.//

that means.... You will be KILLING YOUR OWN BRAIN-CHILD...

Dear Mr. Nichiro... I a actively participating... because you are in the LEAD as also the INITIATOR.. who is generally expected... to see his making does not die off.

Just fearing for One Person... are youtaking such a RASH DECISION.

I assure you.... that I am also with you.... in facing the Critics and Questioners...Only in such a spirit...

So far I have taken initiative to reply to the Queries... even though NOT ADDRESSED TO ME... but to YOU ONLY.

Dear Mr. Nichiro... once again I reiterate.... THIS IS LIFE... and such Questions or Criticisms or EVEN MOCKERY are the Augries towards our more deep enlightenment on the matter we have taken up.... as I have already detailed..

So I REITERATE... I am with you to ensure... NOBORTY CAN HURT YOU... since I will strongly support youin such a case and fight with all the Quarters concerned .... DEFENDING YOU... if you have really such a valid Reasoning..

So PLEASE GO AHEAD... further towards the Purpose you started this Valuable Topic.

[Rohit]

"Nichiro"
From today, I have decided to be a dormant member only.that means.... You will be KILLING YOUR OWN BRAIN-CHILD....

And exactly that was and still is the precise plan behind the philosophies of non-thinking human machines and robots.Yes... Yes... Yes... But behind such Non-thinking Artificial-Brains... there is an Organiser cum Monitor in a form of unseen Human-wisdom either pre-stored or working concurrently
http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?p=127157#127157
I don't know if Mr. Sudhaama really knows that he has unwarily implied that Nichrio would be unknowingly killing the "Organiser cum Monitor" itself.

Or else, I wonder if this would amount to an explicit degeneration of relations and correlates of the situation, and thus resulting into such inconsistent and contradicting statements by Mr. Sudhaama at different times at different places, completely nullifying one another when viewed simultaneously together!

[Sudhaama]

My Dear Mr. r_kk

Aahaahaa...Now you have DEMONSTRATED ... what VITHANDAAVAATHAM .. (Perverted Dry & Wasteful Arguments).... means...!!!

Dear Friend... You are unnecessarily wasting your precious Time and Energy... as also ours...in such Hair-splitting Insignificants

Well I am glad to notice in you a high degree of Wisdom... So I expect and Wish you to devote your attention towards the MEANINGFUL DIRECTION.... useful for all of us..

As I too used to face a big mass of others... while I being a Solitary Opponent.. to such Antagonists... in the Board of Directors as well as some of the Religious or Cultural- Associations or Social- Service organisations...

.. where too I had actively participated in the past ... typically experienced... So I am able to imagine your plight... of ISOLATION.

So I suggest you.... your personal Views may be anything... Pro or Anti to ALL OTHERS

Towards such a Healthy- direction... I reiterate... I anxiously WELCOME YOUR WISE- POSTINGS only ... at least in future.

I will be with you.... fully supporting you in principle... in such Wise- cases.. .

... EVEN IF YOU TOTALLY DIFFER WITH MY VIEWS... and thus Oppose me. !!!

[r_kk]

Dear Mr. Sudhaama,

You can't call the sinciere call for a scientific process of verification as vithandavatham.

If you think views of communists, social uplift movements for suppreesed people, skeptical organsisations as dry and wasteful, then you are wrong.

"Wise postings"

Do you expect me to speak your voice and consider it as wise?
Can you expalin what "wise posting means" please?

[Sudhaama]

Dear Mr. r_kk,

Please go through my Last-posting... OPEN-MINDEDLY, DEEPLY... and UNEMOTIONALLY

Since all your present Questions.. have ALREADY BEEN ANSWERED there.

[Nichiro]

Dear r_kk,
My decision has nothing to do with your stand and questioning.
You have an active inquiring mind which is civil. appreciate your inputs.

Dear Sudhaama sir,

This is for you too.

I thank and respect your efforts to support me.

Nichiro

Nichiro

[Sudhaama]

Dear Mr "Nichiro"

// My decision has nothing to do with your stand ....

Dear Sudhaama sir,....This is for you too....I thank and respect your efforts to support me. //

If you stop playing your FLUTE in this Concert-dais.... where is the necessity for my Drum- beat? ...

Then.... I too will have to Pack-off... and QUIT.

[Nichiro]

Dear Sudhaama Sir,
I am a great fan of your's in the sense that you have a lot of fight left in you.
May be it has to do with board room meetings.
I am a very tired man. Too tired.

There are a very few people in Forum Hub who are capable of enriching the hub and people.
You are needed here. Please do not consider packing your bags.

Adios
Nichiro

[r_kk]

[tscii:0d34fada4b]Dear Mr. Nichiro/Sudhaama,
Since both of you are yet to clarify the basic question on astrological ability to corelate mass tragedies with horoscope and decided to QUIT this discussion blaming my argument as “vithandavatham”, I drafted a more reasonable approach to continue this discussion.

In order to prove my positive attitude towards this subject with open mind, I am ready to sponsor a project through this forum hub (if this forum hub is interested) using my hard earned money, considering that this effort may help to understand the truth behind such old system believed by large segment of people. No other bad intentions.

Why can’t we test the validity of Astrology in a very systematic way?

I consider that it will help both believers and non-believers to determine whether it is real science or pseudo science. The following approach is just only a suggestion and if you or any one has any better idea, we all openly discuss and decide.

We can select 25 verifiable horoscope or data of people those who died in any mass tragedy (Tsunami or Kumbakonam school tragedy). This could be done either by advertising in famous newspapers or contacting some social organizations who can collect the data. Since the Kumbokonam incidence is a local one and still many NGO’s are working on remedial programs, the basic data can be collected from the social organizations working in that area without hard effort. We can pay up to Rs.500 for each data (horoscope or DOB/time/location) and 5000~10,000 to the newspaper advertisement or to the social organizations (can be managed by a reliable body set by hub). We can publish the basic data in the forum hub and then randomly select 10 horoscopes using some simple software tool or voting process.

We can nominate 3~5 hubbers who had shown integrity and logical way of thinking without much prejudice (like Rohit, Badri, he3walrus, aravindhan, Jayganes, a_ratchashi, roshan…) as Juries for the entire process. Both sides can nominate one jury mutually acceptable from the list and the balance 1~3 juries can be selected by other hubbers through voting process and/or mutual agreement between both parties. The Juries can form the rules and provide their conclusions based on your justification. The view, which get majority of Juries vote, can be considered as the correct one. We need not expose our identity to forum members except to the personally nominated jury and/or administrator.

If Mr. Nichiro can prove some common unique planetary position or valid common astrological evidence which leads to tragedy, then I will accept that the astrology as a science and Mr. Nichiro is real professional who is trying to help the people with our ancestral science. I will not write any thing against astrology in future till I prove that my views against astrology as correct through similar scientific process.

If Mr. Nichiro can not prove it, he and Mr. Sudhaama should bear all the expenses and declare in this hub that both accepts astrology as pseudo science and then Mr. Nichiro should not practice as an astrologer in future till he personally prove his belief through similar scientific process.

Can this forum hub ready to take up (data collection, financial dealing etc) this kind of scientific process of verification? If necessary, I can also bear the reasonable expenditure that will occur due to the various overhead jobs of HUB, related to this project.

Do you (Mr. Sudhaama & Nichiro) feel this approach as a wise method? If not propose some alternatives.
[/tscii:0d34fada4b]

[rajasaranam]

Dear Mr. Sudhaama,

You can't call the sinciere call for a scientific process of verification as vithandavatham.

If you think views of communists, social uplift movements for suppreesed people, skeptical organsisations as dry and wasteful, then you are wrong.

"Wise postings"

Do you expect me to speak your voice and consider it as wise?
Can you expalin what "wise posting means" please?

Wise posting means you should post only when, you get old enough, rotting in the same superstitions for longer time until you get absorbed into the lies which you will feel is the reality/ truth.
Other wise you will be wrong if you try out logically/ rationally to find out the truth.

[Nichiro]

Dear r_kk ,

Thanks for your efforts and offer for the project.
I have not quit the discussion but I have quit from all threads including food and poetry.
This is my personlal decision.
Hence I will not be posting anything, anywhere, anymore.
I will be a mute member only.

Only one suggestion.
At one point of time in my life, I was of the same opinion as your's with regard to astrology.
Those days were the days of Cultural revolution .
Even though since age of four , I was immersed in atmosphere of astrology, I never really believed in it.

Once while in school, I read Mao-ze-Dong's lines.
"To Destroy a system, First know the system."

I set about proving astrology as humbug by learning it.
Our house had a huge library of astrological books and magazines.
At the end of may be four or five months, I don't know when I got converted.

In Astrology, there is a pattern. Things, events and people follow this pattern.
So my request to you is,
"Start learning astrology to help you destroy the myth(If you think it as myth).

This will be my last posting .

Nichiro

[Sudhaama]

Dear Mr. r_kk,

For all Your such Questions on the Fundamental-factors about Astrology .. which You raised in another Thread here on the same subject...

... I have already replied in detail... quoting the copies of experts... including one Christian foreigners Statements.

And now you are RAKING UP the same points here too... deviating from the RELEVANCE OF THIS THRERAD... which deals with the Advanced degree of Astrology...

... And that too ... NOT A DEBATE... but a Discussion only..

on which you are not interested I understand... But it seems your Intention is to...

... SOMEHOW THRUST.... YOUR BULLETs... IN OUR GULLETS... forcibly.

Dear Friend.... if you are interested in a debate on Astrology... please open another Thread ...

... named as; "Astrology-Debate" (As I too have done so on Tamil in two exclusive Threads)

... in which too I will participate .. if you really mean the Healthy sense behindf your approach.

This is a serious discussion.. on which many other viewers including me ... are anxious to know.

So...Please... Please DON'T INTERFERE ... ANYMORE... diverting away from the Topic-relevance here

[Sudhaama]

Dear Mr. Nichiro,

The Eleventh House... so called "Laabha-sthaanam"... is considered to be good for all the Planets... so to say even a bad or Malefic-planet positioned there will render only Good.

(1) What about Rahu there at 11th House... and eventually Kethu in the Fifth House (Poorva-punhya / Puthra-Sthanam)?

(2) If Moon also is in the Eleventh House along with Rahu?

(3) And if it is of Meena-Lagna... the Karaka., Guru in the 7 th House (Kanya)... aspecting Lagna as well as the Laabha-Sthanam (11th House)... .. the Birth-Star is Sravana of Makara-Rasi?

Rahu in this case... is Malefic or Benefic?... How ?

[r_kk]

[tscii:8fea7eea4a]

Can you explain why thousands of people died in Tsunami? Do you think all those died have some thing common in their horoscope?Please explain...



Why can’t we test the validity of Astrology in a very systematic way?


I came forward for the verification of your answers on my own cost too.




//Can you explain why thousands of people died in Tsunami?//

// Do you think all those died have some thing common in their horoscope?//

... To continue...

Please tell me the meaning of " to continue"?. Please ask yourself whether you had anwered or not.
But both of you are keeping away from the core question and beating around the bush and calling me as "vithandavaathi" etc....

In this thread you only started claiming that it as a science. I just recommended a scientific method of verification.



(4) Astrology for the COMMONER....

(5) ASTROLOGY the Divine-Science
.…

Go ahead Mr. Sudhaama… You can claim any thing here in this thread from now-on, just ignore my basic question and blame me as unwise etc. Let the readers decide what is wise.

My questions and proposal for a verification process will remain....
[/tscii:8fea7eea4a]

[Rohit]

Dear Nichiro,

It is really sad to see you withdraw. If some disputing interrogations have, in any way, dispirited you, I would request you to take them in a more positive sense and see if you can locate an alternative source of your uneasiness, which comes inherently when such emotionally charged topics are confronted by more vigorous fields of science and scientific methodology. Otherwise, no one has ever intended to dishearten anyone.

I cannot think of any sensible and rational person failing to see that r_kk is raising only valid questions while trying extremely hard to get some valid answers by whatever persuasions he could employ. It is obviously clear that r_kk’s questions are posing serious problems, leading towards a very familiar situation whereby the blinded followers assume attitudes that are becoming more dogmatic, compelling them to use various forms of fallacies as the only defence available to them.