k-NO-w !!! ... God ???

[Sudhaama]

.
.."GOD IS NOWHERE"

... wrote one man on the Wall.

Next day another man... drew a Dividing vertical line in between W and H ..

... making the same series of Letters to be Re- read as...

...GOD IS NOW... HERE....

However BOTH the Statements are CORRECT.

.. Indeed God can be meant in both the senses... YES and NO... It is such a Mystery.

But still there are various Religious and Scientific factors behind to get our various Doubts, Questions and Mysteries answered and clarified in a simple and Scientific manner.

... so to say by Reasoning... perceptible enough even to a Common man... an Illiterate ... an Ignorant... or even a School-Boy

... such will be the simple approach in this Topic ...

... without any bombastic scholarly approach of Arithmatics or Scientific Formulae or any high Philosophic extremity...

...resulting in Boredom to the ELEMENTARY-SEEKER of Truth ...

... behind the Omni-potent, Omni-scient and Omni-present. Immaculate Mysterical God !!!

My dear Friends... please imagine.. either your Children or Grand- children ask you...

(1) What is God? Does God EXIST? Is God a... HE / SHE / IT ?

(2) Why Should I believe or Worship God? How can God help in my Life?

(3) If I dont believe in God what will happen?

(4) Believers and Non-Believers both Suffer ... Why ?

(5) Why God is hiding ?

(6) Is God Really IMPARTIAL?

(7) Is God Really a Protector? If so Why Accidents and Calamities?

(8) Why so much of Disparity of Lucky and Unlucky... Fate and Ill-Fate?

(9) What is the purpose and Goal in Life?

...... What will be your Replies ?????

.... Any One or More Questions here may be taken up and answered as .... you my friends ... feel convenient.....

..on which I will join with you... time to time.

By simple Non-Religious and PRACTICAL approach...

...Let us... "KNOW GOD".... the "NO GOD".
.

[genesis]

deleted.

[mellon]

deleted by mellon :)

[mellon]

thiru. Sudhaama AvargaLE!

ungaLukkum ungaL kudumbaththinarukkum, puththaaNdu vaazhthukkaL!

anbudan,

-mellon

[Sudhaama]

Anbaarndha Thiru "mellon " avarhalhae ...

Ungalh Anbukku en Nenjaarndha Nanrhi ...

Ungalukkum Ungalh Kudumbaththaarkkum en Manamaarndha Puththaandu Vaazhththukkalh.!!

Ellaa Nalamum Petru Neengalh Ongi Vaazha Irhaivanai Vaenduhiraen .!!!

Anbudan
Sudhaama

[Sudhaama]

(1) What is God? Does God EXIST? Is God a... HE / SHE / IT ?

Yes... God does EXIST...

(1) Otherwise the operation of the whole Universe coupled with the Nature-forces like Air and Wind-flow, Rain and Water-flows, Sun, Moon etc... in an organisd manner cannot function.

(2) Egg came from Hen ... and the Hen came from Egg... and who created the first Egg or Hen... It was God.... Any creation is made by God.

(3) Simply because we have not seen Him... we should not doubt His existence.... God is the Mightiest Power... You call Him by any Name or even as an Abstract like Electricity, Magnetic-Power... or Wind-Power etc....You may treat Him as you wish in any Form or even Invisible Hidden-power.

(4) Do you know about your Great Grand-father, whom you have Not seen... nor know much about?

...Can you say ... there was No Great Grand-Father for you...

...No... because you know... without your Great grand-father and his wife your Grand-father would not have been born... and without your Grand-father and Grand-mother... your Father would not have born...

And without your Father and Mother You would not have born... Is it Not?

When ... even for just a creature... like Man and other Living-beings...we are unable to deny the root of our progeny... how can we dispute on the Creator and the Protector... who created and is taking care of us.?

(5) A Farmer is able to plough the Fileld and sow the seed... But can he bring the Rains...? No .. He depends upon the Super-Human-Power .. so called Nature... i.e, the Hidden God....

... Suppose he is able to overcome that Hurdle... by digging a well and water the Farms ...Can he make a Crop out of the Seed ... he has sown?

... No... There he seeks the support of Super-Human-power...

... God... the unseen PROTECTOR.... the SAVIOR. ... Omnipotent... !!!.

So God is our CONCURRENT-SUPPORT for our Activities and Existence..

... To Continue.

Questions or further Supplementary Postings are welcome...

[genesis]

Mr. mellon,

Can you please tell me where you see an attack in my message? It is advice and I am very serious about it.

And it will be good if you could watch your words.

[mellon]

deleted :)

[Sudhaama]

Dear mellon,

Well-said...Not only in the Viewers angle ... as you have put forth...

...but also in the participant -posters angle... I have to further CLARIFY...

I initiated this Thread...mainly for 3 Reasons....

(1) I have several RICH informations ... based on FACTS ... gained by my vast experience as well as many others too as I observed for the past about 70 years .

... which I don't want to either LIE BURIED within me nor DIE WITH ME.

.... so...I am anxious to put forth here towards the advantage of those who are interested to get benefited by the Realities of Life...

...by taking the LESSONS from others Worthy Practical Experiences...who had already tasted the sweet-life on one side alongside by burning their fingers bitterly too... due to Realities.

(2) Although there is another Thread on the same Topic .. I am Virtually ... FED-UP with the SICKENING TREND ... not only in the angle of the Viewers .. but also in the Participants angle...

...Since I am unable to see it as a DISCUSSION OR DEBATE-FORUM !

... but only a WRESTLING-PLATFORM... to Defeat the other Person somehow.

... DRY.... DRY.... AND.... DRY.. BORING sort of ADAMANT / OBSTINATE Arguments ... sometimes perverted too...

... Even though almost all the Participants appear to be the remarkable possessors of high Wisdom... well-knowledged in one or more Subjects... ... to an advanced degree and Standard...( on which I am glad and proud of my Friends there)

... but .. Sorry to Say... (Kindly bear with me... my dear friends there... for my Frankness) ... in my Opinion...

... there is a LACUNAE OF MINDS... so to say... Lack of Open- mindedness ... of some of the Participants...

... who have firmly DECIDED TO DISAGREE... as in the case of Courts of Law by the Opponent Lawyers... who go to court ... NOT TO CONVINCE OTHERS NOR TO GET CONVINCED by the Truth...

...but go with a PRE-DETERMINATION on the Side to be taken-up in favour

...as well as to DEFEAT the Opponents to their Stand (already-taken irrespective of Truth or Untruth)...

... that is LOGIC...which was very prominently prevalent in India... once upon a time... by name... "Tharka-Sasthra.".. as the most Superior one Internationally

Subsequently our Acharyas ... have discontinued teaching and spreading it further... after observing its grave DELETERIOUS SICKLY OUTCOME.. of Doom it culminates.

However that subject of Logic is necessary in the court of Law... so as to bring out INITIALLY... the Hidden-truth... on both the sides of the case taken up...

... but the Judgement is rendered by the Judge... not by LOGICAL- APPROACH ... nor on the basis of who argued well...

... but by the MORAL-APPROACH... of Empathy... imagining oneself on both the sides...

... Finally adjudging... and DISCERNING the opposite sides of Arguments

The Judgement is announced ... NOT BY LOGICAL-APPROACH.... but by Moral- Approach.

... which side is acceptable BY HEART.... MORE THAN.... THE BRAIN

Since the Logical-approach takes us NOWHERE.... and also Endlessly...

The MORAL-APPROACH only is the Apt Lens... to feel the meek Voice of God.

... to.. "k-NO-w"... that Mysterious GREAT UNKNOWN Support for our Life

[genesis]

mellon,

I have been watching this sudhaama for few days. I do strongly believe that he is hooked on to some bad ideas (you can always ask whom am I to decide that....)

May be as you suggested I should have sent a PM.

Sudhaama - I am sorry if I hurt your feelings. Still I think you got some wrong ideas.

[mellon]

Come on, genesis!

Let it go! I will delete my earlier post now, as you got the message! :)

[Sudhaama]

"genesis"

// I have been watching this sudhaama for few days. I do strongly believe that he is hooked on to some bad ideas (you can always ask whom am I to decide that....)//

I am unable to unmderstand what you mean...Why do you come around the bush?... Please come out straightforward... in reciprocation to mine...

//May be as you suggested I should have sent a PM.//

Welcome.

// Sudhaama - I am sorry if I hurt your feelings.//

Thanks for your Gentlemanly spirit

// Still I think you got some wrong ideas.//

Yes... my dear Sir... What is that you find wrong in me?.. Please Speak out... If I was really wrong at any time.. . I am prepared to CORRECT MYSELF... with the least hesitation...

..but .if you can justify by Reasoning....

... without any Ill-feeling... nor Fanaticism... nor Hatred towards any Subject or Person or Faith...

[trigit]

Hey Why Bother God when he is busy with tsunami and all other natural disasters. :lol:

[Sudhaama]

"trigit"

// Hey Why Bother God when he is busy with tsunami and all other natural disasters //

So You mean Tsunami... was the.... GOD-MADE.... Disaster?

In fact... it was MAN-MADE... rather Caused by Man's utter Negligence of HUGE CRIES since the past 30 years...

... on the Global-Hot-up... due to GREEN-HOUSE-EFFECT.

Other Disasters... EVEN BY GOD... can be PREVENTED... or at least REDUCED...if there is HUMAN- WILL coupled with dynamic appropriate action!!!

In fact God Wants... expects...anticipates it... by throwing a Challenge to the collective HUMAN-WISDOM

Why Don't you apply your HEALTHY POLICY ... as in your Signature...

.... "NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE"... on which Policy... I am with you....

... But with only DIFFERENCE... I do not BLAME GOD... for our Failures.

[Chappani]

I'am just not able to understand what Sudhaama wants to tell!!

I do appretiate your intentions that you want to share your rich experience with others in this forum, why topics like this which doesn't lead us anywhere and do us any good, why don't you take up topics that would really help the youngsters like - Problems in life you faced and how you over came them, Bringing up good Children etc etc

As you said in the starting of the thread, "This thread is meant for Theists" then why such a discussion is required for people who already beleive in god.
Think again!!

[ManUtdGal]

Hi

I think the reason why this topic was made was so people could discuss it - normally that's what a forum is , a place to discuss things.

Also I'm wondering sudhaama are you a vaishnav?

[Idiappam]

In fact... it was MAN-MADE... rather Caused by Man's utter Negligence of HUGE CRIES since the past 30 years...

I am surprised to hear that from you, Mr Sudhamaa - a retired civil engineer!

[Sudhaama]

Dear Mr. Idiappam,

Yes I mean what I say... TSUNAMI on Dec-26 2004... was the cause of Negligence of Global-Heat-up...

... so to say ... GREEN-HOUSE EFFECT.... due to Over-pollution of Atmosphere... as per the Global Scientists Scholars Findings...

Here... "U"... r.... "I" .... r ... Insignificant.... to be discussed about...

... but only... "V"... as well as.... the Matters posted

Yepporulh Yaar-Yaar Vaay kaetpinum
Apporulh Mey-p-Porulh kaanbadhu Arhivu

[jaiganes]

sudhama wrote:

so to say ... GREEN-HOUSE EFFECT.... due to Over-pollution of Atmosphere... as per the Global Scientists Scholars Findings...

I dont think there is any correlation between green house effect and tsunami.
tsunami is a geological phenomenon while green house effect is a meteorological (weather related) phenomenon.
If there is a connection (scientific) I would like to know. Such a finding (of a connection betwen the two)is worth a Nobel in science.
the english translation of your thamizh quote is that knowledge is the process of finding out the real truth behind a statement made by anyone irrespective of his/her social/intellectual standing.
In this regards, I will give you a benefit of doubt to prove your claims of a scientific theory that links up tsunami and global warming (or heating up as you have put it).

[Sudhaama]

Dear Sudhaama

Yes, I can clearly see and read what you mean by or identify as God. As you have rightly put it, it is nothing but an individually visualised, capricious entity according to one's own outlook, wish and imaginations; and there is an absolute nothing beyond that mental state of affairs.

I can clearly see and sense your own outlook, wish and imaginations that constantly keep revolving around the wishful thoughts and imaginations of an imaginary entity, variously postulated as God, which you falsely and inaccurately seem to believe as the one and only Indian heritage.

By the way, for your kind information, like Buddhism of Buddha, Jainism of Mahavir did not and still does not assert any kind of Creator or Supreme God. Jainism is absolutely an atheistic religion, it has nothing whatsoever to do with the God of any nature that you have so extravagantly wished and imagined for.

Also I can see you falsely and inaccurately wish and imagine something of your own choice as qualified by some arbitrary and unrecognised agency as to be addressed as God; and in those wishes and imaginations, you strangely see and imagine some logical sense of the world :!:

I also acknowledge your sentimental apprehensions shown in your statement that this thread is not attempting to portray any religion or philosophy neither does it intend to address the intricacy of the God(s) depicted in any religious scriptures. But if you care to notice, such Gods are variously postulated and depicted only in the world's various but utterly conflicting religions and scriptures with logically explosive contradictions and yet you strangely seem to believe that there a logical sense of the world.

I would be greatly obliged if you can elaborate on the exact nature of what you really mean and believe by a logical sense of the world :!:

If you are as honest, brave and courageous as you believe and claim to be, I do not understand why you are so anxious to accept a bit of higher logical sense and attempt to raise your own logical sense to the ultimate level?

If you really wish and desire raising your own logical sense to a much higher level and explore the criticality of the main switching algorithms and required states and levels of energy to power and operate the entire network, please do not hesitate, I would be more than happy to contribute. Else, you may choose to remain contented with the same level as most commonman do. The choice rests with you and only you.

Good Luck! :)

My Reply will follow.... and I want to clarify my policy...

(1) Even though I am capable of proving or establishing every streak of my thoughts and every stroke of my words... based on its due justifications...

...I do not like to indulge in any contradiction or confrontation with anybody who intends to prove superior to me by knowledge or such other senses..

Well... if anybody claims to be more knowledgeable or even better and Superior to me in any respect... I never take pains to contradict... but just try to believe it so... optimistically. ... with no attempt from me, to precipitate.

.. nor interested to ARGUE with anybody... who has DETERMINED TO DIFFER with me... whatever be the fact... similar to the Spirits of the Opponent-advocates... whose Scope and Intention is not to bring out the Truth... but only Win on the side they taken up.

ARGUMENTS TAKE US NOWHERE... but to only aggravation of negative Propensities like Ego, Animosity, Jealousy and Enmity... or at least degration of Friendship..

(2) On the Contrary .. I am happy and OPEN-MINDED enough to discuss and exchange my healthy thoughts... with others . Thus I am even willing to retrace my steps and correct my knowledge.. if I were proved to be wreong at any stage... couples with my whole-hearted thanks.

(3) And I expect a similar RECIPROCAL-SPIRIT from my friends who DISCUSS with me.

Because of these Self-principles, I was keeping off the Arguments with you so far... even though I had several points to differ.

My further participation in reply to Mr Rohit... depends upon his reply. to these factors

[Rohit]

Dear Sudhaama,

Thank you for taking pain to express your views and stand on a very complex matter of Truth, usually but falsely claimed solely based on one’s own beliefs, irrespective of the clear evidences and verifiable facts to the contrary.

I have no doubt of any kind about your capacity as an intractable believer in finding every justification, including the justification for believing them as due in proving and establishing why believers hold such beliefs in the first place.

As you have claimed yourself to be an open-minded person, I hope you would hardly hesitate to accept the fact that there can be no base whatsoever for claiming any Truth without a precise definition of Truth within a universal frame that must be totally detached from all biases, and without proving it in the same universal frame of reference.

Any differences that you may think we may be holding against each other's views cannot be determined by just one in declaring the other as "determined to differ" as the other can make the same allegation. In that case, I hope you would not remain determined to differ with me when I rather say that the choice to differ could never be made exclusively as such choices tend to end-up one in utter regressions, as you might well have noticed such instances elsewhere in other threads.

The notion of winning and loosing only comes when there are opposing views; and as I have said it in the case of "determined to differ", this notion too cannot be sustained exclusively. So, yes, the apprehensions of loosing always persist when the lack of understanding and uncertainties are at odds with one's own beliefs and views.

All genuinely verifiable arguments are meant to eradicate the persistence of ignorance by analysing the validity of the belief system and the claims made based on such invalidated belief systems. Such arguments take nowhere only to the one who would remain engrossed in his/her false beliefs despite the clear evidences to the contrary. If taken in a healthier sense, such arguments should never give rise to any aggravation and make one perceive negative propensities in the other and believe that it would lead to a degradation of a friendship yet to make.

With this, I would acknowledge and respect your stand of keeping off from what you have known as arguments and hope I have not disappointed you in my reply upon which your whole spirit of participation seems to depend. :)

[Shakthiprabha.]

Hey Why Bother God when he is busy with tsunami and all other natural disasters. :lol:

I am laughing hard here! What is tsunami and other natural disaster? A face of SUPER POWER.

Its hilarious to see ppl think god is someone sitting above them, in heaven, planning or to be precise CONSPIRING disasters against us!!! :lol:

God creates disasters SHUN HIM
God creates calamities IGNORE HIM
God creates sorrow DITCH HIM

God ALSO GIVES happiness to us.... Do we remember him????
Answer is NO.

"Nah...not me, I WOULD BE TOO BUSY PARTYING MY SUCCESS/BOASTING about my MIGHTY fame" is the
answer aint not?

Poor GOD! How impartial WE HUMAN BEINGS ARE! :(

[malligai]

Hey Why Bother God when he is busy with tsunami and all other natural disasters. :lol:

:lol: :lol: thats a good one Trigit!!!

I think God is getting ready for his "Final Avatar" :lol:

[sivajayan]

Hey Why Bother God when he is busy with tsunami and all other natural disasters. :lol:

:lol: :lol: thats a good one Trigit!!!

I think God is getting ready for his "Final Avatar" :lol:
You don't mean Poseidon?

[Sudhaama]

INNOCENT was punished?.... GOD'S CRUELTY?

One True Episode... There was one.... famous? / notorious!.... Autorikshaw-driver named Shankar. People used to call him as AUTO-SHANKAR. He was an expert in bringing around and fetching any chosen pretty damsel of any status ... as chosen and sought for... by the so called ELITES, .... including the Government Executives and Police-officers too.... as was reported in the press during those days.

If by chance any girl.... takes it serious enough to antagonise that Pimp or report to the Police... no action used to forthcome. In extreme cases he used to threaten them on dire consequences... since his hands and influence were quite strong. ...When such admonitions too fail to render the anticipated Result... he used to MURDER THOSE GIRLS as well as their supporters ... whom he considers as his probable Future-enemy....CRUELLY.

If and when reported to the police.... it was said, that it fell in the deaf ears. Sometimes, the cases turned against the Complainants themselves, leading them towards innocent imprisonment.

Because he used to earn a windfall gain of lakhs daily... he had a knack of maintaining a big circle of friends at different localities.... since paid well by this Agent.... he was able to manage well. Besides, if any poor person was heard to be of serious sickness... or struggling for life due to any major accident.... there we could find our great man Auto-Shankar, rendering a helping hand, thereby coming forward to rescue the uncared for or orphaned sufferers anywhere in and outskirts of the city. Not only on such situations of shedding tears... but also for marriages he used to pour them lakhs. With the result, nobody used to come forward as witness... even if they know of his crime-cases. Several police-cases taken up by some of the Loyal Police-officers, used to fizzle out... because they could neither build-up the cases sound and strong, nor prove adequately conforming to minimum legal demands... and consequently the cases used to miserably fail in the courts of Justice.

Auto-Shankar used to easily escape... stating as either... Not-Guilty... Benefit of doubt... and the likes... resulting in that Famous-man's coming out of the court of law, with a glee... saying NOBODY ON EARTH WILL BE ABLE TO CATCH ME...

The Relatives of the innocent victims used to cry and cry after knocking all the avenues and pillars to posts. No palpable action even after persistent pursuasions at all possible levels for Justice provided for the Rule of Law....

They used to cry bitterly and shout at several Temples.... ARE YOU REALLY GOD... THE PROTECTOR?....GOD IS DEAD.... NO GOD.

This pitiable state of affairs went on unaffected for about a decade....

On one fine morning.... when the Governor was passing by... One lady suddenly rushed to the mid-road and fell across his Car with tears. When questioned by the Governor personally.... whether she is trying to commit suicide, she said..." No Sir, I want Justice, which nobody else is able to ender me for the past 10 years. My husband is missing since then."

When raked up, the whole History of this Great Shankar came to light.... Just at that time, there was a Criminal-case against this man... pending in the Court of Law. On the Governor's personal intervention, it was taken up seriously.

Then.... the same Auto-Shankar, who never believed God.... used to pooh-pooh and mock at the Believers and Temples.... fetched the pictures of all the forms of Gods to the Prison, fervently started praying to save him... performing poojas incredibly.

He pleaded "Not-Guilty and Innocent.... whereas all his previous friends came forward to declare in the court as the Police-witnesses.... and finally the whole case easily went against him... Rather he could not save himself.

The Judgement was passed as the proven-criminal in the case.... and that he sould be HANGED TO DEATH.

Then he lamented and CRIED ALOUD.... OH GOD, WHEN I DID NOT PRAY YOU, DUE TO MY NON-BELIEF..... I could save myself easily, even though I was REALLY GUILTY in those cases....

...Whereas now, when I started believing and praying you...YOU HAVE UNDULY PUNISHED ME.... EVEN THOUGH NOT GUILTY IN THIS SINGLE CASE...

...YOU ARE NO GOD.... NO GOD.... He Cried openly before a huge crowd....

But the Judgement was carried out... He was hanged to death in a case where he was PERHAPS NOT GUILTY....

We are able to doubt so, from his comparative narrations on different cases as well as about his erstwhile friends who had become his Ungrateful Traitors at last.

Here we have to ....KNOW GOD. .... Very difficult to Understand that Omnipotent-Ruler....

... but by means of Human-Wisdom, we can discern His Law on Life

[Sudhaama]

Dear Friends,

Your THOUGHTS... on the above Episode... and the Lesson implied behind... for our Meaninful Life?

...I will speak as the last man in the Queue.

[Lambretta]

Dear Mr. Sudhaama,
Nice to see a post from u again! :)
Tat was a very touching story u presented!
I'm glad tat man got wat he deserved! He didnt deserve to take God's name in the 1st place.....!
But again, thinking abt the innoncent victims tat he so willingly handed over to pervrted wolves just to make more money than an average auto driver......! ie, the fact tat God didn't seem to come to provide them justice on time wen they truly deserved it!
It makes me wonder.......I was told tat this is all part of the play by God w/ this world, therez no rhyme or reason y this happens.....!
But I'm not really convinced by tat....feeling confused abt it in fact! :?

[Sudhaama]

[tscii:b9533d73c2]



INNOCENT was punished?... GOD'S CRUELTY?


One True Episode... There was one.... famous? / notorious!.... Autorikshaw-driver named Shankar. People used to call him as AUTO-SHANKAR. He was an expert in bringing around and fetching any chosen pretty damsel of any status ... as chosen and sought for... by the so called ELITES, .... including the Government Executives and Police-officers too.... as was reported in the press during those days.

If by chance any girl.... takes it serious enough to antagonise that Pimp or report to the Police... no action used to forthcome. In extreme cases he used to threaten them on dire consequences... since his hands and influence were quite strong. ...When such admonitions too fail to render the anticipated Result... he used to MURDER THOSE GIRLS as well as their supporters ... whom he considers as his probable Future-enemy....CRUELLY.

If and when reported to the police.... it was said, that it fell in the deaf ears. Sometimes, the cases turned against the Complainants themselves, leading them towards innocent imprisonment.

Because he used to earn a windfall gain of lakhs daily... he had a knack of maintaining a big circle of friends at different localities.... since paid well by this Agent.... he was able to manage well. Besides, if any poor person was heard to be of serious sickness... or struggling for life due to any major accident.... there we could find our great man Auto-Shankar, rendering a helping hand, thereby coming forward to rescue the uncared for or orphaned sufferers anywhere in and outskirts of the city. Not only on such situations of shedding tears... but also for marriages he used to pour them lakhs. With the result, nobody used to come forward as witness... even if they know of his crime-cases. Several police-cases taken up by some of the Loyal Police-officers, used to fizzle out... because they could neither build-up the cases sound and strong, nor prove adequately conforming to minimum legal demands... and consequently the cases used to miserably fail in the courts of Justice.

Auto-Shankar used to easily escape... stating as either... Not-Guilty... Benefit of doubt... and the likes... resulting in that Famous-man's coming out of the court of law, with a glee... saying NOBODY ON EARTH WILL BE ABLE TO CATCH ME...

The Relatives of the innocent victims used to cry and cry after knocking all the avenues and pillars to posts. No palpable action even after persistent pursuasions at all possible levels for Justice provided for the Rule of Law....

They used to cry bitterly and shout at several Temples.... ARE YOU REALLY GOD... THE PROTECTOR?....GOD IS DEAD.... NO GOD.

This pitiable state of affairs went on unaffected for about a decade....

On one fine morning.... when the Governor was passing by... One lady suddenly rushed to the mid-road and fell across his Car with tears. When questioned by the Governor personally.... whether she is trying to commit suicide, she said..." No Sir, I want Justice, which nobody else is able to ender me for the past 10 years. My husband is missing since then."

When raked up, the whole History of this Great Shankar came to light.... Just at that time, there was a Criminal-case against this man... pending in the Court of Law. On the Governor's personal intervention, it was taken up seriously.

Then.... the same Auto-Shankar, who never believed God.... used to pooh-pooh and mock at the Believers and Temples.... fetched the pictures of all the forms of Gods to the Prison, fervently started praying to save him... performing poojas incredibly.

He pleaded "Not-Guilty and Innocent.... whereas all his previous friends came forward to declare in the court as the Police-witnesses.... and finally the whole case easily went against him... Rather he could not save himself.

The Judgement was passed as the proven-criminal in the case.... and that he sould be HANGED TO DEATH.

Then he lamented and CRIED ALOUD.... OH GOD, WHEN I DID NOT PRAY YOU, DUE TO MY NON-BELIEF..... I could save myself easily, even though I was REALLY GUILTY in those cases....

...Whereas now, when I started believing and praying you...YOU HAVE UNDULY PUNISHED ME.... EVEN THOUGH NOT GUILTY IN THIS SINGLE CASE...

...YOU ARE NO GOD.... NO GOD.... He Cried openly before a huge crowd....

But the Judgement was carried out... He was hanged to death in a case where he was PERHAPS NOT GUILTY....

We are able to doubt so, from his comparative narrations on different cases as well as about his erstwhile friends who had become his Ungrateful Traitors at last.

Here we have to ....KNOW GOD. .... Very difficult to Understand that Omnipotent-Ruler....

... but by means of Human-Wisdom, we can discern His Law on Life
....

Life-Lesson:1… God is the COW-HERD.!!!


God has sent the Human-souls to Earth to …LIVE A MEANINGFUL LIF

…for which purpose… each person, according to his Karmas (Outcome of Good & Bad deeds of the past) … is bestowed with certain lucks plus ill-lucks…

Such Positive favors and Negative blows by DESTINY occur to him during different periods.

So the Mankind must REALISE this Reality… and plan his life accordingly…whether palatable or not.

God is like a Cow-herd, if Humans are compared to cows. So to say, He has given individual freedom to each Cow… to varying extents. Hence one can graze within his bounds.

But when it forcibly crosses the boundary, the Cow-herd runs behind just to WATCH and GUARD…

…to ensure the Cow does not get innocently trapped in any danger or unsafe predicaments,

…and sometimes allows to wander…But in its course, some times it hits at other cows, or cause damages to others…

…on which the Guard is TOLERANT…upto a limit. But when it transgresses even the extreme Limit of tolerance…

… the blow from Guard used to be severe.

This is the first point of Lesson for Life….

Oh Man…Constantly Realize your Boundary, at every Moment and Deed

…To Continue.
[/tscii:b9533d73c2]

[SmileAlways]

Hi Everbody...
Gr8 thread!!

I have this query of mine......

It is said that we suffer in this birth bcos of Pavams (bad deeds) done in the previous birth. Why should it be this way?? Why does god let people suffer for soemthing they might have done in the previous birth? As i see it, in the previous birth....u did all the wrong deeds, enjoyed life..and died peacefully. Whereas in this birth...u might be a good person...yet suffer!! Why is this discrepancy?? I firmly belive in getting what u sow...do good deeds..and be good, do bad deeds....get the blow in tht birth itself!! Wont u accept??

[johntony]

HON. Swami Vivekananda told that it has no matter whether one should belives or disbelives in god but it does matter whether he have faith (self-confidence) in himself , if he belives in all the gods of all the religions without no faith in himself he still falls in the category of ATHEISTS, self-confidence is a must.

|| Om Sri Param Pujya Ramkrihsna Paramhansayei koti koti Namaha ||

[johntony]

and have anyone of you know how one can achive superior level of self-confidence?

[ramky]

Hi Everbody...
Gr8 thread!!

I have this query of mine......

It is said that we suffer in this birth bcos of Pavams (bad deeds) done in the previous birth. Why should it be this way?? Why does god lebirth? As i see it, in the previous birth....u did all the wrong deeds, enjoyed life..and died peacefully. Whereas in this birth...u might be a good person...yet suffer!! Why is this discrepancy?? I firmly belive in getting what u sow...do good deeds..and be good, do bad deeds....get the blow in tht birth itself!! Wont u accept??

SmileAlways : According to my beliefs, both good and bad deeds can be together called as Samskara ( or Karma as is commonly known ). And all deeds / actions to which we become attached are like loads on our backs. That is, we perform most of our actions with deep emotional involvement, expecting the results from those actions, and with one's Ego behind it. We feel we did the work, forgetting that the impelling power within us is God. Due to this, deep impressions are formed of our actions which get ingrained not only in a person's subconcious mind, but also in the very soul of the person. These Samskaras prevent a human being from transcending to a higher consciousness. So to work out these Samskaras ( or Karmas ), one has to take birth again. And in the next birth too, the person does many things to which he or she gets attached and the Samskaras of those deeds gets credited into their account. This cycle of Birth & Rebirth goes on endlessly.

Its all based on a higher, divine law of cause and effect. Thats the reason why, one can see a rich sinner continuing to be rich, and a poor but noble person continuing to live in poverty. Whatever is necessary for an individual to work out his or her Samskaras, ( so that they may eventually attain liberation or mukti ), is what that person gets.

So one should think above good and bad deeds and try to become detached from all actions. In the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna had said that a person has the right only to his action, the result is in His hands. It doesnt imply that we should stop doing good deeds at all - only that one should not get attached to the good deed.

Now the question will arise - how can I do any work without applying my Will power behind it, for which one's Ego is also required ?! The way is - to have a sort of detached attachment towards the job to do, and think that it is always God who is actually performing it and not oneself. If one is always steeped in the Constant Remembrance of God or Divine Master, then it becomes easy to have this sort of detached attachment. As a result, the Samskara ( or Karma ) of that deed which should normally gets acrued to us, will not be so. When we follow this principle in each and every action we do, ( no matter however mundane or however lofty / glorious ), eventually a stage will come when no Samskara gets credited into our account at all. So that one can exhaust one's Samskaras in this birth itself and be free of rebirth in the physical plane of existence.

[ramky]

and have anyone of you know how one can achive superior level of self-confidence?

You can try Meditation. There are many methods of Mediation - seek out and find the one which suits your purpose and follow it consistently. You are sure to achieve self-confidence. Not only that, but also you will find many positive changes in your personality & life.

[SmileAlways]

Thanx @ Ramky

Somebody once told me this :

Itz not as if a person will do many bad deeds in one life. Just tht bad and good deeds accumulate...until in one birth u pay either way.

Just like how the last tomato put on the scales adds up to 1/2 kg...itz not as if tht last tomato weighed 1/2kg by itself!!

So......slowly..ur bad deeds/good deeds get accumulated...and u have all the good luck or bad luck in a particular birth!!

[crazy]

"IN GOD WE TRUST"


My dear God-believer Friends... please imagine.. either your Children or Grand- children ask you...

(1) What is God? Does God EXIST? Is God a... HE / SHE / IT ?

(2) Why Should I believe or Worship God? How can God help in my Life?

(3) If I dont believe in God what will happen?

(4) Believers and Non-Believers both Suffer ... Why ?

(5) Why God is hiding ?

(6) Is God Really IMPARTIAL?

(7) Is God Really a Protector? If so Why Accidents and Calamities?

(8) Why so much of Disparity of Lucky and Unlucky... Fate and Ill-Fate?

(9) What is the purpose and Goal in Life?

...... What will be your Replies ????? .... Any One or More Questions here may be taken up and answered as .... you my friends ... feel convenient..... on which I will join with you.

hm , if i have a child. i would try to answer :

1 God is love, God is energi and God is the source for living. God is what u believe. God is male, God is female and God is everything! Yes God excist.

2 Iam not forcing u to believe i God, but I believe in God and I would encourage u to do so! why? coz there is no use in trusting or believing Humans neither science or anything! Idont know how God can help in life directly, but reading and knowing religious books and scripts might help us all!

3 nothing will happen if u dont believe. its not important being a believer or not. the point is that u r a good human being! so live like a human, thats enough!

4 i believe in karma, i believe we suffers b'coz of ur previous act or b'coz of our act in previuos life :roll: and what is life if there is no suffering?

5 God isn't hiding dear. he is overall. th one who seeks will see him, the one who knows will feel him! u should open ur eyes and heart to let him come! God is in u and so do in me. God is in everything so see him in everything :)

6 doesnt gonna make any difference to u dear?

7 God only knows what he wanted to do with the earth, universe, u, me and everything! he is protector and he is destroyer. what is life as i asked before, without sufferings, joy, pain, peace, acccidents and calamities?

8 hm the answer is just what i wrote above.

9 goal in life: we all have certain way of thinking. for me the goal is to reach God. To be a good human being. to help the needy.
for someone else it might be earning money or fame or being good human or making sense or etc etc.
u should find our goal, u should understand ur life and u should find it out by urself!

i dont know how much it helps. i never asked these questions to my parents neither grandparents. iam not saying that iam genius.................no not at all. i read a lot of books.
maybe i would ask my child to read different religious and holy books to get a hint of God and life :roll: or i would ask my child to travel around and talk to different people to understand and know life and God!

[kannannn]

INNOCENT was punished?.... GOD'S CRUELTY?
Then.... the same Auto-Shankar, who never believed God.... used to pooh-pooh and mock at the Believers and Temples.... fetched the pictures of all the forms of Gods to the Prison, fervently started praying to save him... performing poojas incredibly.

I hope that is not a comment on Atheists in general. On going through the many messages, one gets the impression that every man has to answer for crimes commited in the 'previous births'. That leads to the question. Why are we born at all? What is the point in creating man and testing him for moral and ethical righteousness? Why was there 'creation' at all? Why couldn't 'God' let the planets be barren and just take rest.

[crazy]

I hope that is not a comment on Atheists in general. On going through the many messages, one gets the impression that every man has to answer for crimes commited in the 'previous births'. That leads to the question. Why are we born at all? What is the point in creating man and testing him for moral and ethical righteousness? Why was there 'creation' at all? Why couldn't 'God' let the planets be barren and just take rest.

i wonder why? i didnt get an answer, so i thought it isnt worth asking! :roll:

[nms]

INNOCENT was punished?.... GOD'S CRUELTY?

One True Episode... There was one.... famous? / notorious!.... Autorikshaw-driver named Shankar. People used to call him as AUTO-SHANKAR. He was an expert in bringing around and fetching any chosen pretty damsel of any status ... as chosen and sought for... by the so called ELITES, .... including the Government Executives and Police-officers too.... as was reported in the press during those days.

If by chance any girl.... takes it serious enough to antagonise that Pimp or report to the Police... no action used to forthcome. In extreme cases he used to threaten them on dire consequences... since his hands and influence were quite strong. ...When such admonitions too fail to render the anticipated Result... he used to MURDER THOSE GIRLS as well as their supporters ... whom he considers as his probable Future-enemy....CRUELLY.

If and when reported to the police.... it was said, that it fell in the deaf ears. Sometimes, the cases turned against the Complainants themselves, leading them towards innocent imprisonment.

Because he used to earn a windfall gain of lakhs daily... he had a knack of maintaining a big circle of friends at different localities.... since paid well by this Agent.... he was able to manage well. Besides, if any poor person was heard to be of serious sickness... or struggling for life due to any major accident.... there we could find our great man Auto-Shankar, rendering a helping hand, thereby coming forward to rescue the uncared for or orphaned sufferers anywhere in and outskirts of the city. Not only on such situations of shedding tears... but also for marriages he used to pour them lakhs. With the result, nobody used to come forward as witness... even if they know of his crime-cases. Several police-cases taken up by some of the Loyal Police-officers, used to fizzle out... because they could neither build-up the cases sound and strong, nor prove adequately conforming to minimum legal demands... and consequently the cases used to miserably fail in the courts of Justice.

Auto-Shankar used to easily escape... stating as either... Not-Guilty... Benefit of doubt... and the likes... resulting in that Famous-man's coming out of the court of law, with a glee... saying NOBODY ON EARTH WILL BE ABLE TO CATCH ME...

The Relatives of the innocent victims used to cry and cry after knocking all the avenues and pillars to posts. No palpable action even after persistent pursuasions at all possible levels for Justice provided for the Rule of Law....

They used to cry bitterly and shout at several Temples.... ARE YOU REALLY GOD... THE PROTECTOR?....GOD IS DEAD.... NO GOD.

This pitiable state of affairs went on unaffected for about a decade....

On one fine morning.... when the Governor was passing by... One lady suddenly rushed to the mid-road and fell across his Car with tears. When questioned by the Governor personally.... whether she is trying to commit suicide, she said..." No Sir, I want Justice, which nobody else is able to ender me for the past 10 years. My husband is missing since then."

When raked up, the whole History of this Great Shankar came to light.... Just at that time, there was a Criminal-case against this man... pending in the Court of Law. On the Governor's personal intervention, it was taken up seriously.

Then.... the same Auto-Shankar, who never believed God.... used to pooh-pooh and mock at the Believers and Temples.... fetched the pictures of all the forms of Gods to the Prison, fervently started praying to save him... performing poojas incredibly.

He pleaded "Not-Guilty and Innocent.... whereas all his previous friends came forward to declare in the court as the Police-witnesses.... and finally the whole case easily went against him... Rather he could not save himself.

The Judgement was passed as the proven-criminal in the case.... and that he sould be HANGED TO DEATH.

Then he lamented and CRIED ALOUD.... OH GOD, WHEN I DID NOT PRAY YOU, DUE TO MY NON-BELIEF..... I could save myself easily, even though I was REALLY GUILTY in those cases....

...Whereas now, when I started believing and praying you...YOU HAVE UNDULY PUNISHED ME.... EVEN THOUGH NOT GUILTY IN THIS SINGLE CASE...

...YOU ARE NO GOD.... NO GOD.... He Cried openly before a huge crowd....

But the Judgement was carried out... He was hanged to death in a case where he was PERHAPS NOT GUILTY....

We are able to doubt so, from his comparative narrations on different cases as well as about his erstwhile friends who had become his Ungrateful Traitors at last.

Here we have to ....KNOW GOD. .... Very difficult to Understand that Omnipotent-Ruler....

... but by means of Human-Wisdom, we can discern His Law on Life

I am remembering a poem by Vethathiri Maharishi.

"Seyalilae Vilhaivaaga
theiva Ozhungamaipirukka
Payanenna thavarizhaithu
Paramanaippin Vaenduvathaal"

For every thought and deed of us ..either positive or negative ..there is an effect...
The timing of the effect could not be guessed but there is always an effect.. Cause and Effect are inseperable twins.....

This can be a better example..

Japan was bombed in 1945..but still the chemically polluted land has it's own effect on the health of the Japanese...

US being a mighty power was attacked by lowly equipped nomadic terrorists..

[johntony]

and have anyone of you know how one can achive superior level of self-confidence?

You can try Meditation. There are many methods of Mediation - seek out and find the one which suits your purpose and follow it consistently. You are sure to achieve self-confidence. Not only that, but also you will find many positive changes in your personality & life.


thanks ramky to reply me,
i think meditation is helpful to improve concentration of mind, and to feel peace or improve mental ability. but it is not sufficient to acquire higher level of self-confidence only with meditation in my opinion. there must be an another way to achive it.
you definately been heard or read this line of an urdu shayari
'' khudi ko kar buland itenaa, ki khuda bandey sey puchhey bataa teri rajaa kya hai''

in this line poet gives a message that means '' improve your guts to such a higher level when the god himself ask to fulfil your willings''.

[Sudhaama]

How to Build-up SELF-CONFIDENCE.?





and have anyone of you know how one can achive superior level of self-confidence?

You can try Meditation. There are many methods of Mediation - seek out and find the one which suits your purpose and follow it consistently. You are sure to achieve self-confidence. Not only that, but also you will find many positive changes in your personality & life.

thanks ramky to reply me,
i think meditation is helpful to improve concentration of mind, and to feel peace or improve mental ability. but it is not sufficient to acquire higher level of self-confidence only with meditation in my opinion. there must be an another way to achive it.
you definately been heard or read this line of an urdu shayari
'' khudi ko kar buland itenaa, ki khuda bandey sey puchhey bataa teri rajaa kya hai''

in this line poet gives a message that means '' improve your guts to such a higher level when the god himself ask to fulfil your willings''.

No doubt... Meditation helps in Building-up Self- Confidence... because Meditation implies MIND-EXERCISE....

... but in addition to Meditation.... the following processes speeds up fast and effectively.

(1) Develop Friendship or acquaintance selectively.... with Cheerful Achievers, Successful personages.

... Achievements and Success can be gained only by the persons of STRONG WILL-POWER...backed by SELF-CONFIDENCE.

(2) Avoid spending time or to move with the Habitually dejected or morose persons...

... always lamenting on some of his/her Problems, Shortcomings, Setbacks, Failures, Disappointments etc..

... You must spend time only with the people who are able to discuss on Solutions.

(3) Always read books and magazines or Stories... highlighting Hope, Confidence and Success.in life.

(3) Believe in yourself... by realising your Plus-points compared to several others far below you... in one or the other respects...

... and never compare yourselveswith the other group, who are better better than you today.

(4) Time always changes.... so is the Life. If today is not as good as you wish to be.... believe that by God's grace... the near future will be better. Constantly LIVE WITH SUCH A HOPE.

(5) Never attempt to do anything which may lead you towards GUILTY CONSCIENCE at a later day.

(6) Always be kind and good to others, ignoring their criticisms or ill-comments on you.

(7) Believe God.... coupled with the AUTO-SUGGESTION... that

..."When God is, and will be with me....

...because of my clean thoughts, good deeds and high intentions...

....what anybody...even my enemy or competitor can OUTBEAT ME?

[ramky]

sudhama, sometimes a person is so dejected, depressed or out of synce with his ( or her ) surroundings that, the person may not be able to make friends with anybody. and the person may not be able to think about what is right or wrong at that point of time. so many things you have suggested may not be possible for that person to do. in such a situation, meditation has a much better chance of bringing the person back to normalty. of course, being in such a state of mind, the person would have to be forced or compelled to try the first medttation session.

later on, his ( or her ) thinking will become in tune with their surroundings and it will be possible tor that person go follow the advices you have given above.

[Sudhaama]

...

God is Love... Love is the Divine-Basis ... LOVE IS LIFE!!!


sudhama, sometimes a person is so dejected, depressed or out of synce with his ( or her ) surroundings that, the person may not be able to make friends with anybody. and the person may not be able to think about what is right or wrong at that point of time. so many things you have suggested may not be possible for that person to do. in such a situation, meditation has a much better chance of bringing the person back to normalty. of course, being in such a state of mind, the person would have to be forced or compelled to try the first medttation session.

later on, his ( or her ) thinking will become in tune with their surroundings and it will be possible tor that person go follow the advices you have given above.

As I already said... Meditation... no doubt.. helps a lot in ones Self- improvement by Health and Character... especially the Mind and the Soul.

But under the condition of Despair or Dejection... sometimes even extreme to the extent of a Suicidal tendency...

....do you believe anybody can have a mind for Meditation?

If you are able to resort to such an Ideal remedy... Well I appreciate your Mind-Culture. But cannot be generalised nor possible by Reality.

In such cases... the best Remedy is God-Faith.... So TRUST GOD....

...Think of God... Pray to Him... Love Him.... Because Love is Life.!!!

[ramky]

...

God is Love... Love is the Divine-Basis ... LOVE IS LIFE!!!


sudhama, sometimes a person is so dejected, depressed or out of synce with his ( or her ) surroundings that, the person may not be able to make friends with anybody. and the person may not be able to think about what is right or wrong at that point of time. so many things you have suggested may not be possible for that person to do. in such a situation, meditation has a much better chance of bringing the person back to normalty. of course, being in such a state of mind, the person would have to be forced or compelled to try the first medttation session.

later on, his ( or her ) thinking will become in tune with their surroundings and it will be possible tor that person go follow the advices you have given above.

As I already said... Meditation... no doubt.. helps a lot in ones Self- improvement by Health and Character... especially the Mind and the Soul.

But under the condition of Despair or Dejection... sometimes even extreme to the extent of a Suicidal tendency...

....do you believe anybody can have a mind for Meditation?

If you are able to resort to such an Ideal remedy... Well I appreciate your Mind-Culture. But cannot be generalised nor possible by Reality.

In such cases... the best Remedy is God-Faith.... So TRUST GOD....

...Think of God... Pray to Him... Love Him.... Because Love is Life.!!!

Sudhama Sir,

Kudos to you for starting a discussion about God ! But I beg to differ from some of your views. It is not possible for everyone to have a Love for God under all circumstances in life, or for even to believe that there's a God. I myself had to go through many phases and experiences before I got converted from an Atheist to Agnostic to finally a Firm Believer in God. But I also understand that, for some people, this Love for God, Faith in God is so ingrained, that nothing on earth can shake this feeling.

I happened to notice that, in replying to another member's querries, my post is slightly deviating from the main topic of disucussion started by you. Please excuse me for this, but I think I have to clarify the points I had made above. The statement I had made about Meditation helping a despearte person to overcome his or her feeling of dejection, is based on a couple of specific cases which I personally know of. I am not generalising that Meditation is the only panacea which can help a dejected person or one who has suicidal tendencies.

Yes I agree with you completely that when a person is seriously contemplating suicide ( or has become a Drug addict ), he or she will have no inclination to even think of meditation - at that juncture, only God can help the person. I also agree that having Love for God will also help a person. But it is not possible for everyone to maintain that love for God under all circumstances. When inspite of strong Faith in God, something untoward happens, it shakes the very foundation on which such love or faith is based.

Let me now cite a specific case I know, of a person who attempted suicide. There's obviously some strong reason why the person thought of suicide in the first place. It could be failure in a love affair, or having lost one's honour & being deserted by a so called lover, failure to do well in exams, financial problems, and so on.

But after somewhat recovering one's mental balance, what is that person's mental state ? What is he or she going to do next ? Some of them recover from such a state of dejection. Fine. Thats very good. But there are so many others who dont - witness the recent spate of suicides by Tamil TV actresses. The feeling of suicide, once it enters the mind, never goes away - unless the root cause of it is rectified or removed. So till such a thing happens, there's a very high possibility that he or she will contemplate suicide again.

And the next time he or she may not have the same faith in God as they had previously. They tend to think, I trusted in God to help me but even He has deserted me, so what's the point in living, who can help me now if even God is not willing to help me.... this type of thinking makes the person go the full way the 2nd time and they actually commit suicide.

My point is that, after he or she recovers from the first attempt, they can be counselled by experienced people about the benefits of meditation and to just try it for a change. Once the person gets into the regular groove of doing meditation, it helps the person in atleast two ways : The meditation process calms the person and makes them think more rationally. The peace he or she gets after a session of meditation, makes them try it again. So eventually the person becomes regular in the practice of meditation, and becomes less self-involved - that is, he or she stops thinking always about thier pitiable situation in life. So the negative thoughts become lesser and positive ones become greater, thus making the person act and think normally after some time.

The second benefit is that, the person gets into a routine of sorts by doing meditation regularly morning and evening. This routine gives the person less chance to think continuously about whatever bad incident had happened in their life. Like the old saying goes, an idle mind is a devil's workshop. Morover, he or she will meet other people like themselves at the place of meditation - persons whose situation in life is similar to theirs - and the person who contemplated suicide earlier, now begins to accept whatever bad has happened and reconciles to their current position. The reason is, they see at first hand that, the same thing or something similar has happened to others also.

And last but not the least, the process of meditation slowly brings back the Faith in God, for that person. Now they start feeling that the past is past, whatever happened was God's Will & that they were not deserted by Him. After regular practise of meditation, this Faith in God gets reinforced to such an extent, that the person doesnt think of suicide again - even if the situation becomes worse than the previous time.

And I would like to add that, all this I have said is based on my personal observations - of actual incidents which happened to a person.

When I say Medittation, I am talking about a specific method followed in a Spiritual Organisation I know of, where, Meditation is not just a hobby, but a way of life.

[johntony]

dear friends,
i am maditating since 10 years and my choise is naadbramha, on meditating this i am able to read any (not all) persons mind to some variable extent(depends on will power,knowledge& mental ability of them) by analysing his voice,face,& body-gestures, also i am able to recognize whether one should telling a lie or truth(though there are some exceptions when i am fells to recognize some lier peoples immediately which costs me to pay more, most of them are clever shopkeepers)

so my experience is that real meditation is takes place when our food is simple, veg, healthier, energetic, non-spicy and motto is towards truth & we are not involved in any evil deeds by physicaly & mentally.

as we know according to ashtaang yoga ,The eight limbs of Yoga are Yama, Niyama,asana, Pranayama, Pratyahara, Dhyana, Dharana, Samadhi, the meditation(dhyan) comes on 6th place, the perfect meditation which top yogis experiences can not be achived with out first five stages, and it is nearly impossible to an avearge person in our present society about to think first stage.

i found that even if we follow some few rules & regulations( not all ) mentioned in first 2 or 3 stages of yoga in accordance with our choice, physical capacity, social status & without interrupting demands of job we employed, then there would be more & quick positve results of meditations.


more info on http://www.yogapoint.com/info/ashtanga.htm

Thanks
Have A Nice Day

[ramky]

and have anyone of you know how one can achive superior level of self-confidence?

You can try Meditation. There are many methods of Mediation - seek out and find the one which suits your purpose and follow it consistently. You are sure to achieve self-confidence. Not only that, but also you will find many positive changes in your personality & life.


thanks ramky to reply me,
i think meditation is helpful to improve concentration of mind, and to feel peace or improve mental ability. but it is not sufficient to acquire higher level of self-confidence only with meditation in my opinion. there must be an another way to achive it.
you definately been heard or read this line of an urdu shayari
'' khudi ko kar buland itenaa, ki khuda bandey sey puchhey bataa teri rajaa kya hai''

in this line poet gives a message that means '' improve your guts to such a higher level when the god himself ask to fulfil your willings''.

johntony : I want to clarify that when I say Meditation, I am referring to it as being practised in a particular spiritual organisation. But I think as per rules of this forum I cant give the links here. In this type of Meditation, one tries to see Divinity or God in oneself, through the process of Meditation ( for which initiation is required ). And I have personally seen people gain lot of confidence after doing this particular type of Meditation.

Is Dhyan ko achi tarah karne ke baad, bandha khuda ko chahne lagta hai aur Khuda ko apne andhar paata hai. Jab apne khud ke hridaya mein hi Khuda virajman ho, to bande ka aatma vishwas apne aap aa jata hai aur kabhi dalta nahin. To, isme hum khuda ko humme dekhte hain, aur khud buland ho jaate hain !

[johntony]

and have anyone of you know how one can achive superior level of self-confidence?

You can try Meditation. There are many methods of Mediation - seek out and find the one which suits your purpose and follow it consistently. You are sure to achieve self-confidence. Not only that, but also you will find many positive changes in your personality & life.


thanks ramky to reply me,
i think meditation is helpful to improve concentration of mind, and to feel peace or improve mental ability. but it is not sufficient to acquire higher level of self-confidence only with meditation in my opinion. there must be an another way to achive it.
you definately been heard or read this line of an urdu shayari
'' khudi ko kar buland itenaa, ki khuda bandey sey puchhey bataa teri rajaa kya hai''

in this line poet gives a message that means '' improve your guts to such a higher level when the god himself ask to fulfil your willings''.

johntony : I want to clarify that when I say Meditation, I am referring to it as being practised in a particular spiritual organisation. But I think as per rules of this forum I cant give the links here. In this type of Meditation, one tries to see Divinity or God in oneself, through the process of Meditation ( for which initiation is required ). And I have personally seen people gain lot of confidence after doing this particular type of Meditation.

Is Dhyan ko achi tarah karne ke baad, bandha khuda ko chahne lagta hai aur Khuda ko apne andhar paata hai. Jab apne khud ke hridaya mein hi Khuda virajman ho, to bande ka aatma vishwas apne aap aa jata hai aur kabhi dalta nahin. To, isme hum khuda ko humme dekhte hain, aur khud buland ho jaate hain !


i am agree with u that meditation about existence of god in oneself hearts takes him or meet him to the god(when he found vision of god himself & every where in this world) this phenomena is called in indian sprituality the aatma-sakshatkar it is also called awkening of kundlini super power, which is the target of all yogis and yog sadhanas, this stage can not be achived so easily and a spritual guru is must.



but in previous topic where i give ref. of an urdu poem ,dont go on wordly meanings of that see it through bhava meanings ( every word & every sentences always have two meanings one by wordly
& second by what are the feelings ( bhava [sanskrit] of them, extract of them, quintessential of them) generated by them.

so when i extracted bhava meanings of that poem , i found that poet has told indirectly the situation when god arrived himself in ones heart. and to occurance of god in ones heart it is must that his
heart, mind & soul must be pure from every aspects,

truth can never be defeated, so if someone is weaker but if he follows path of truth he never ever be defeated. and path of truth is the only way towards super confidense, towards all blessings of god in my opinion. but which type of truth
, the one that does not harm to anyone.

but in todays world we can not live without telling lie
because corruption every where, then whats the way ?

[Sudhaama]

.
. Why INNOCENT Victims...turn OPPOSITE?

While we closely observe some of the two prominent groups of the worst sufferers in Life...

...especially the INNOCENT VICTIMS of extraneous Cruel blow...

... we used to feel surprised as to how the same sort of eventualities of Severe Onslaught..

..has changed one person to get his God-faith ENHANCED...than before..

...while the other of the same boat... turned totally against.. as NON-BELIEVER of God.

Yes.. for example... we know the miserable plight of the Pakistan Refugees...

... the INNOCENT VICTIMS of Circumstances.!!... No words to console them.!!

But now all of them are well-settled in Life... But..?

..some of them have become Staunch believers of God in one or the other form...

..while there exists another Segment.. who have become TOTALLY ATHEISTS...

...Non-believers of God.!!

Another example is the famous Late Cine-stars M.K. Thyagaraja Bhagawathar and N.S.Krishnan...

..who were said to be the INNOCENT VICTIMS in the Lakshmi-kanthan Murder case.. in which they were the accused.

After getting released from Prison duly acquitted... MKT became more of God-faith..

..while NSK became the opposite than before.. as a NON-BELIEVER of God... an Atheist.?

What made them So.?... Apart from the same and similar circumstance.?

People of one and the same same boat.. got different and OPPOSITE coloured

...caused by the same Boat-Travel.!! How ? and Why.?
.

[anbu_kathir]

.
. Why INNOCENT Victims...turn OPPOSITE?

People of one and the same same boat.. got different and OPPOSITE coloured

...caused by the same Boat-Travel.!! How ? and Why.?

.

Well.. a note on the question. I think you do know, Sudhaamaji, that our destiny is governed by our own choices. There could be many decisions that we are not conscious of, but we are given exactly what we ask from the depth of our souls.

So whats the point of such a question as this - There was a fork at the end of a road. X turned left, Y turned right. Why so?

Well, people are free to make their own decisions. And how can we judge why they made it or whether the decision they made is right or wrong? We cannot claim to have known their minds, their conditioning, their 'vaasanas' across lifetimes.

We can give opinions, but utmost that is equivalent to blind men giving opinions about the elephant, if you know that story.

Love and Light.

[Sudhaama]

.
.

.

. Why INNOCENT Victims...turn OPPOSITE?

People of one and the same same boat.. got different and OPPOSITE coloured

...caused by the same Boat-Travel.!! How ? and Why.?

.

Well.. a note on the question. I think you do know, Sudhaamaji, that our destiny is governed by our own choices. There could be many decisions that we are not conscious of, but we are given exactly what we ask from the depth of our souls.

So whats the point of such a question as this - There was a fork at the end of a road.

X turned left, Y turned right. Why so?

Well, people are free to make their own decisions. And how can we judge why they made it or whether the decision they made is right or wrong? We cannot claim to have known their minds, their conditioning, their 'vaasanas' across lifetimes.

We can give opinions, but utmost that is equivalent to blind men giving opinions about the elephant, if you know that story.

Love and Light..

Good point... dear "anbu kathir"...

Under the extremely pitiable and pathetic situation and plight of the Innocent victims... so called Pakisthan-refugees... to India..

When they were placed in an unnecessary and unduly awkward predicament in Life...

..to START THEIR LIFE AFRESH... as a totally new Lease of Life...

...since left EMPTY-HANDED in all respects.

On any of other matters and factors like changing one's Career... or choice on Marriage... or the Country where to settle down... etc.

...The Question what you point out... is applicable.

Yes.. We do not know nor possible to justify as to why and what made them decide different ...from person to person.

That is quite common in Life for anybody under similar circumstances.

But I am asking only one BASIC POINT... on God-faith... and NOTHING ELSE.

And I am not entering into the delicate aspect of...

...Which is RIGHT?...and Which one WAS WRONG... on God-faith.

However there is a GREAT LESSON for COMMON Humanity... from their practical Life-Experience. .. OVERALL.!!

...to... KNOW GOD.???.... the.... NO GOD.!!!

What is that.? Please think over... DIFFERENT...

...and please put forth your views...

...on this Basic factor of GOD-FAITH...

Yes please.. All others too... WELCOME.!!!

.. Are you able to find out the Life-Message.?...

..From such incredible PRACTICAL EXPERIENCES.!!!...???

...Either radical TRANSFORMATION.. or the Opposite... FORTIFICATION...!!!
.

[Sudhaama]

.
. Why INNOCENT Victims...turn OPPOSITE?

While we closely observe some of the two prominent groups of the worst sufferers in Life...

...especially the INNOCENT VICTIMS of extraneous Cruel blow...

... we used to feel surprised as to how the same sort of eventualities of Severe Onslaught..

..has changed one person to get his God-faith ENHANCED...than before..

...while the other of the same boat... turned totally against.. as NON-BELIEVER of God.

Yes.. for example... we know the miserable plight of the Pakistan Refugees...

... the INNOCENT VICTIMS of Circumstances.!!... No words to console them.!!

But now all of them are well-settled in Life... But..?

..some of them have become Staunch believers of God in one or the other form...

..while there exists another Segment.. who have become TOTALLY ATHEISTS...

...Non-believers of God.!!

Another example is the famous Late Cine-stars M.K. Thyagaraja Bhagawathar and N.S.Krishnan...

..who were said to be the INNOCENT VICTIMS in the Lakshmi-kanthan Murder case.. in which they were the accused.

After getting released from Prison duly acquitted... MKT became more of God-faith..

..while NSK became the opposite than before.. as a NON-BELIEVER of God... an Atheist.?

What made them So.?... Apart from the same and similar circumstance.?

People of one and the same same boat.. got different and OPPOSITE coloured

...caused by the same Boat-Travel.!! How ? and Why.?
.

.. k-NO-w GOD.!!!

Two Brothers of the same Family.. have taken different conclusion on God...

...Diametrically OPPOSITE to each other..

..rather one became a highly GOD BELIEVER..while the other became an ATHEIST...

..although caused by the same circumstances.!!

Indeed person to person..Life approach is different...

..and so, each one may take different paths on their Life matters, as well as career and Personal affairs... there is NO WONDER

..But why on God... the basic Source of FAITH, CONFIDENCE and OPTIMISM?

...the Fundamental basic Foundation for Enthusiasm, Peace of Mind and Impetus.?

Because the One who got fortified in the God Trust.. ignores the past but looks foward towards the Future with high Confidence...

..since he has learnt from Practical Experience..

... the truth... that MAN PROPOSES... and the GOD DISPOSES.

Thus he has learnt the Lessons from the past and got prepared

...to forget the undue bitterness of the past..

..by keeping in mind the Sweet Dreams of Hope on future...

Thus HE HAS STARTED LIVING THE PRESENT DAYS... forgetting the previous dark-days.

Whereas his Brother who has become an Atheist..

...brooding and complaining UNENDINGLY and SOLELY.

... continues to LIVE IN THE PAST.

He has yet to learn Lessons on Life-Reality.
.

[anbu_kathir]

Two Brothers of the same Family.. have taken different conclusion on God...

...Diametrically OPPOSITE to each other..

..rather one became a highly GOD BELIEVER..while the other became an ATHEIST...

..although caused by the same circumstances.!!

Indeed person to person..Life approach is different...

..and so, each one may take different paths on their Life matters, as well as career and Personal affairs... there is NO WONDER

..But why on God... the basic Source of FAITH, CONFIDENCE and OPTIMISM?

...the Fundamental basic Foundation for Enthusiasm, Peace of Mind and Impetus.?

Because the One who got fortified in the God Trust.. ignores the past but looks foward towards the Future with high Confidence...

..since he has learnt from Practical Experience..

... the truth... that MAN PROPOSES... and the GOD DISPOSES.

Thus he has learnt the Lessons from the past and got prepared

...to forget the undue bitterness of the past..

..by keeping in mind the Sweet Dreams of Hope on future...

Thus HE HAS STARTED LIVING THE PRESENT DAYS... forgetting the previous dark-days.

Whereas his Brother who has become an Atheist..

...brooding and complaining UNENDINGLY and SOLELY.

... continues to LIVE IN THE PAST.

He has yet to learn Lessons on Life-Reality.
.

I agree with you on this Sudhamaji. This does seem to be the general case.

But what is GOD anyway? I agree that God is the source of all enthusiasm optimism etc, as you say. But if this is the definition of God, then one doesn't need to believe in a 'Higher power' or any personal God for this.

Also the idea that God faith 'helps' while not having it does not is subjective I think. The human being is a complicated subject and the thoughts words and actions that come from him/her are governed by so many factors.

Primary of these factors is one's idea of how Life works, I guess. And I agree that this has a close connection with one's idea of how God works , if one believes in God.

If one does not believe in a 'personal God', I don't think that necessarily translates to the belief that Life is (in general) hopeless, and always working against us. Similarly I don't think that a belief in a personal God always translates to a belief about the goodness of Life(in general, again). However the probabilities to that these beliefs are linked are quite high, I must agree.

Love and Light.

[Sudhaama]

.
. God can be perceived .!... BUT.?





Two Brothers of the same Family.. have taken different conclusion on God...

...Diametrically OPPOSITE to each other..

..rather one became a highly GOD BELIEVER..while the other became an ATHEIST...

..although caused by the same circumstances.!!

Indeed person to person..Life approach is different...

..and so, each one may take different paths on their Life matters, as well as career and Personal affairs... there is NO WONDER

..But why on God... the basic Source of FAITH, CONFIDENCE and OPTIMISM?

...the Fundamental basic Foundation for Enthusiasm, Peace of Mind and Impetus.?

Because the One who got fortified in the God Trust.. ignores the past but looks foward towards the Future with high Confidence...

..since he has learnt from Practical Experience..

... the truth... that MAN PROPOSES... and the GOD DISPOSES.

Thus he has learnt the Lessons from the past and got prepared

...to forget the undue bitterness of the past..

..by keeping in mind the Sweet Dreams of Hope on future...

Thus HE HAS STARTED LIVING THE PRESENT DAYS... forgetting the previous dark-days.

Whereas his Brother who has become an Atheist..

...brooding and complaining UNENDINGLY and SOLELY.

... continues to LIVE IN THE PAST.

He has yet to learn Lessons on Life-Reality.
.

I agree with you on this Sudhamaji. This does seem to be the general case.

Well. Everybody has personal Right and Freedom... according to ones own perception... either to Believe... or Disbelieve in GOD, as an Atheist...

We are not interested to interfere nor Comment on his / her Inference on God- Faith... the Life-Reality.

But One Truth.. a common Message for all, we all must keep in Mind.

...If we analyse the History of any and all Nations... we come to know that there existed CONSTANTLY... the Atheism also parallelly alongside Theism...

...amongst the several Mosaic Theistic-faiths of One Society.

Even Puranas are not the exception.... although they fundamentally preach Theism...

Yes. We may feel surprised to know that right from the first Kritha-Yuga age... there existed both Theism and Atheism parallelly... and UNENDINGLY.

God created His own Disbelievers and ENEMIES TOO.!

During the ancient days... one Religion named "CHARAU-VAAHAM".. was prevalent... which is nothing but Atheism.

Even the Great Lord Krishna has indirectly preached Atheism to Yadavas... and redirected them to worship the Govardhana Hills... which gives them their Livelihood...

..instead of worshipping the so called Indra God... whom they had never seen.!

Then does it mean.. Krishna was an Atheist... nor encourages Atheism too... parallelly.?

No... His intention was to arouse their Wisdom.

In general we can find... in any popular Religion... especially in the Vedic Religion (so called Hinduism), we find the presentations in an approach of Reasoning... rather Questions and Answer methods.

For example, Adi-Sankaracharya had made a Text named PRASNOTHARA-MALIKA... wherein he has voluntary raised several probable and Negative Questions too...

... and rendered the due Answers... justifying his Theory Adwaitha... one sort of God-faith... by Universal-outlook.


But what is GOD anyway?

I agree that God is the source of all enthusiasm optimism etc, as you say. But if this is the definition of God, then one doesn't need to believe in a 'Higher power' or any personal God for this.

I never said, nor meant... that God is JUST the Source of Enthusiasm, Optimism etc... ONLY.!

...but more than that... FAR BEYOND.!.. by Reality... as we observe our Day to day Life... as well as the events around on which we are unable to either control or deviate or even UNDERSTAND the Justification and Reasoning behind... SPECIFICALLY on each case.!

For all such Rudimentary factors... on which even a Child can raise questions to us...

...we can find answers... expressed in Scientific approach... by the God-believing famous Scientists like Albert Einsteine, Issac Newton, Thomas Alwa Edison and such others.

For Commoners... the simple answer we get by understanding a Family-management system... i.e., Father-Child relation

A child wants to spend her whole time in playig only... because she enjoys at it... more than any other options available to her.

But her Father insists her to attend the School... although she is not interested.

Why the Father does so... even FORCIBLY.?

...The Child does not know what is the Good and Best for her... which her Parents alone know and can decide.

She wants to eat only Chocolates... But her Father intervenes and curbs her limit.... and insists on the the Balanced food... with part consideration only for palatability... towards the varieties of Tastes... Sweet, Sour, Salty, Spicy... plus Bitter too. Why.?

Because her Nutritional needs for Health.. free srom Sickness.. is the utmost importance.

Then the Father advises her to marry... although not sought for by the Girl... and gets it implemented too.!

Thus the Father has a primary important Role in the Lives of his Children...

...as well as owns a COMMITTED DUTY... in the Successful upbringing towards their bright fiture.!

His Children may not be able to even understand the Justifications.!

So to say... the Child has got her own Limited- role and Schedule for herself.... which we call as VAAZHVU... Human Life-Plan in Tamil...

...within the bounds of her Father's Overall Schedule.... which we call as VAAZHKAI, the God's Life-Plan in Tamil.

So both have their own different and parallel Commitments and duties...

...within the ambit and Overall Schedule of God's plan...

...which we can learn from our Scriptures.. as the basis of our own Life-plan the Self-imposed Code of Practice,

...and further understand by the turn of directions.

Ninaippadhu yellaam nadandhu-vittaal Dheywam yaedhum illai.!

Maaruvadhai purindhu-kondaal Mayakkam thelhindhu-vidum.!



Also the idea that God faith 'helps'...

... while not having it does not... is subjective I think.

The human being is a complicated subject and the thoughts words and actions that come from him/her are governed by so many factors.

Primary of these factors is one's idea of how Life works, I guess. And I agree that this has a close connection with one's idea of how God works , if one believes in God.

God's plan... irrespective of any Religion... is VERY SIMPLE. !

..Creator - Creations... Protector - Protected... Father - Child...

...Equality of Mankind... all the Children of Global One-Home under Common Sky-roof.!



If one does not believe in a 'personal God', I don't think that necessarily translates to the belief that Life is (in general) hopeless, and always working against us.

God never works against us. He is the KIND-HEARTED Supreme Protector.!!!

Theedhum Nanrhum Pirhar thara vaaraa

For those who believe Him... even under all Odds... He is the sincere Serviceman cum Strong- Supporter.

For those who disbelieve Him... He is a Mystery.! He plays with them more...

...and ultimately makes them realise the TRUTH... of their own accord One day... that GOD EXISTS.!

No doubt about it. Practically we have noticed several cases... as the proof.

God... the Supreme Governing-Power... has to be perceived by PERSONAL REALISATION... by Inner-feel by One's own Soul backed by Heart and Wisdom...

...Not by Wisdom alone... by which confined Human- pursuit, it is Neither ACCESSIBLE for the Feel... NOR POSSIBLE to justify.



Similarly I don't think that a belief in a personal God always translates to a belief about the goodness of Life(in general, again)

The Basis of any Religion is Social- Outlook to start with...

...so to mean, for example... Think of others intersts TOO.. as Thine.! (Empathy).

Then Nurture and Maintenance of Self-character... towards ones own Morality...

...coupled with Conscience- bound approach... on Life..

....which ensures the meaningful purpose of birth as the Supreme- mankind....

....KEEPING YOUR HEAD HIGH...

...which alone can make any person to steady ROYAL WALK...

...with LEAST FEAR.!.... Always.!...

..even under all sorts of Impediments... Hurdles, Failures, Disappointments... Ups and Downs.. etc.

Rather the God-believer ONLY... can ensure Ever-constant Balanced-HAPPINESS coupled with Peace of Mind...

...UNFAILINGLY... under any sort of varied circumstances.!

Thanakku- uvamai- illaathaan Thaalh saerndhaarku allaal
MANA- KAVALAI maatral aridhu.



However the probabilities to that these beliefs are linked are quite high, I must agree.

Love and Light.

God-Realisation can be achieved by SELF-ENDEAVOUR...

...by means of INDIVIDUAL SEARCH...

...for Answers on the Wise Questions...

...Raised to ONE'S OWN INNER SELF.!

Till such time... let us allow the Atheists to continue so...

...as they want themselves to be.!

True God-believers are the WELL-WISHERS to All.!...

...Even towards the Strangers and Opponents... anywhere and all over the World.!!!

Yes... Vedas declare such a Large-hearted sense by the Gospel...

... Lokah Samasthah sukhino bhavanthu.!!!

.

[anbu_kathir]

Sudhaamaji,

You left so much comment that I don't remember what exactly was being discussed. I am just going to try and keep the discussion to your last post alone. The most important point of my last post ( to which you have replied to ) was this :



If one does not believe in a 'personal God', I don't think that necessarily translates to the belief that Life is (in general) hopeless, and always working against us. Similarly I don't think that a belief in a personal God always translates to a belief about the goodness of Life(in general, again). However the probabilities to that these beliefs are linked are quite high, I must agree.


In short, I was putting a very direct question.

Do we need a (personal) God (or a 'religion') to be a good human being?

( Note: By 'God' and 'religion', I specifically mean these terms as meaning to a common man, and not about the Advaitic 'Brahman', or religion in a mystic sense. )

My personal answer is no. I personally believe what is required in every action is the feeling of creating and experiencing oneness, avoiding separatist attitudes, in short, acting out of Love for all beings of the planet.

Now, can a belief in God/Religion deliver such attitudes? Yes, for sure they can. Is it a proven fact that religion/God can serve this purpose with efficiency? I don't think so. There have been counter examples, if you see. Religion and God have been time and again been used to divide mankind, develop attitudes of 'us' against 'them', develop superiority and inferiority among people, wage wars of monstrous violence, etc.

While one acknowledges the fact the Religion/God serves a good purpose, one must also acknowledge that it has created such hatred at several times. Ultimately it is upto the followers of the religions to make up their minds about how they interpret and utilize their idea of God and their religion, and if at all any good has to come out of that, then it is a must that they take Love and Oneness principles into account.

Other comments on your post follow.

Love and Light.

[Shakthiprabha.]

In short, I was putting a very direct question.

Do we need a (personal) God (or a 'religion') to be a good human being?


My personal answer is no. I personally believe what is required in every action is the feeling of creating and experiencing oneness, avoiding separatist attitudes, in short, acting out of Love for all beings of the planet.


I agree with you, THOUGH, we cannot overrule the importance of personal god or religion for the want of spirituality to be embedded amongst people in EVERY LEVEL of evolvement.

So, someone like anbu may be evolved to find the oneness, we cannot preach the same to people of varied level of understanding.

Yes when we rise to a higher perspective, ONENESS is observed everywhere and RELIGION fades away.

Its like we need universities to do thesis, we also need primary education for youngsters and kinder garten for lil ones.


Religion is important, unfortunately its misled and misunderstood at root levels. This is the way it functions, this is the way it wuold, this is the way it has. :)

My 2(few) cents. :)

[sarna_blr]

So, someone like anbu may be evolved to find the oneness, we cannot preach the same to people of varied level of understanding.


we can :)

தெய்வத்தாலாகாதெனினும் முயற்சிதன் மெய்வருத்த கூலி தரும் 8-)

[anbu_kathir]

In short, I was putting a very direct question.

Do we need a (personal) God (or a 'religion') to be a good human being?


My personal answer is no. I personally believe what is required in every action is the feeling of creating and experiencing oneness, avoiding separatist attitudes, in short, acting out of Love for all beings of the planet.


I agree with you, THOUGH, we cannot overrule the importance of personal god or religion for the want of spirituality to be embedded amongst people in EVERY LEVEL of evolvement.

So, someone like anbu may be evolved to find the oneness, we cannot preach the same to people of varied level of understanding.

Yes when we rise to a higher perspective, ONENESS is observed everywhere and RELIGION fades away.

Its like we need universities to do thesis, we also need primary education for youngsters and kinder garten for lil ones.


Religion is important, unfortunately its misled and misunderstood at root levels. This is the way it functions, this is the way it wuold, this is the way it has. :)

My 2(few) cents. :)

Funny, I find oneness principles far more obvious and simple than the complicated rules of religion and those of our economics-driven society. I don't believe Religion is 'level 1' in spirituality, and the 'feelings of oneness' are somehow higher.

Religion itself evolved from these, the feeling of being connected with the All. So that's in a way much more basic and rooted in human beings. The New Ageys have a saying for this ' Fake it till you make it'.. meaning ' Act as if you are One with the world, and you will be'.

Answering whether we are acting so at every step will simply eliminate many of our defective behaviors. Its a simple rule of thumb, really. Although, from experience, I must say its not that easy to remember to ask that question, answer that truthfully and carry out the corresponding action.

Love and Light.

[Shakthiprabha.]

Would you feel, perfect in a world where no religion prevails, just enlightening ppl with the 'SCIENCE of being', when a kid grows up and be ready to understand the theory / science of being?

I suppose it would be just putting across facts and nothing more emotional involved there.

[anbu_kathir]

Would you feel, perfect in a world where no religion prevails, just enlightening ppl with the 'SCIENCE of being', when a kid grows up and be ready to understand the theory / science of being?

I suppose it would be just putting across facts and nothing more emotional involved there.

Pantheism would be the way to go.

http://www.pantheism.net/

We would go back to worshipping to Sun, the moon, etc. Humanity inherently has a way of making certain things as 'sacred'. Nature would be the first one among them. Everyone will perceive naturally beautiful things as sacred, until they are told not to (mostly by the morals of religions).

Religion is something that one would create personally for oneself, simply because of the fact that other than nature, different aspects of Life may be beautiful to different people in different extents. The foremost among these would become the personal Gods.


Separation attitudes can easily be done away with in Pantheism. After all, I think it makes sense (to me atleast) to treat something which keeps me alive (physically and enthused in spirit) as sacred, and at the same time accept that different people might be enthused by different things in life.

If we can imagine the same with whatever scientific facts we have, I think we could have much more interesting world for the kids to grow up in, one where religion doesnt stop making sense, rituals don't become mere routine, even after the kids grow up with a scientific education.

Not saying that religion should be done away with, but the rituals, the Gods, must have some personal meaning to each, which connects us with everything else. This should be the prime reason for any of those religions to be practised, otherwise Vadivel solgiramaadhiri, building strong, aana basement konjam weak aagividum.

As for the mystic ways, I have no comment.

Love and Light.

[Shakthiprabha.]

Convincing post :thumbsup:
I have nothing to say. :)

[viraajan]

Good discussion is going on :)

[Sudhaama]

.
.

. Arabic-Gospel... Holy Koran.!.. GOD's MESSAGE.!...

...Mis-interpretation playing WORLD-WISE HAVOC.!


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. "Kaaphir hai voa joa Bandhae nahee(n) Islaam kae.!"- Holy Koran.

Meaning: One who does not follow Islam (Allah's / God's.. Message).. is an Atheist (God's Enemy).!!

Does it mean that the Non-Muslims are the Atheists... Opponents / Enemies of God.?

No. Holy Koran is the God's Message of UNIVERSAL-LOVE... which does NOT MEAN SO MEAN.!... Nor Can Mean so.!

..because Allah is Akbar (Great)... and is Rahman (Merciful) also.!!

It has been PRACTICALLY proved so... to the entire Humanity comprising of Non-Muslims too.! How.?

Let us look at the History of these Holy Words of the Gospel Koran.

The Revered "Sal", the Great God's Messenger / Prophet... Mohammad nabi... has narrated the God's Message to his Disciples... in the form of Holy Koran.

He uttered these criticising words about "Kaaphir" (Atheist)... at a Critical Juncture...

....and it is applicable to that Specific Context only...

...as also identifying ONE PARTICULAR SECTION of the local Society at the holy Mecca of those days only...

..who behaved as GOD'S ENEMIES.!

.Why and When he had to say so.?

In those grand old days... prior to the divine birth and advent of the Great God's Messenger / Prophet... Mohammad Nabi on Earth... at the holy Mecca...

...the People of the Middle-East Region, so called Gulf-countries like Saudi-Arabia, Palestine, Qatar, Dubai and Iraq were very poor not only by Living standards by Life struggle for their daily minimum needs of Food etc....

..but also by their Wisdom as well as by their standard of Life-codes...

..with NO KNOWLEDGE on God... Nor on the Existence of God... Nor GOD-REALISATION... Nor God-Belief or Super-Human Faith... in any form.!

So to say they were living as Savages... the Human-shaped Animals by Qualities and Propensities.!...

The MERCIFUL GOD... so called Rahman Allah... pitied on them and directed His Prophet, Mohammad Nabi to correct and emancipate them as the proper Humans...

...as due to their Birth as Mankind... at least to the minimum calibre as the Non-Beast.!

The Revered Mohammad Nabi heard the Holy Koran directly from Allah... and preached by Reiteration to those who trusted that Great Divine Messenger / Prophet at the Holy Mecca.!!!...

...addressing the vast crowd of believing people (Disciples) assembled to get guided on Life Advancement.!

But some powerful local Leaders at Mecca, the Non-believers on God... got worried and jealous on the fast-gaining popularity and Divinity in the Stranger Prophet...

..and so became the Enemies of Mohammad Nabi and his Followers...

They started every sort of troubles for them... making their day to day Life tself a struggle.!

Then the Prophet, along with his mass of followers shifted his Head-Quarters from his Birth-place Mecca to another town, Medina... since chosen by him as the better peaceful venue in those days.

But to his surprise... during Namas at Medina, the Revered Mohammad felt the presence of Allah the Omnipotent God... only at Mecca... specifically at Kaaba...

..and so he prayed God by Namas... turning his face towards Kaaba at Mecca... chanting the Holy Koran.

Consequently he felt that such a sacred place Mecca with the holiest Treasure.. Kaaba...

..should not be allowed to be continued anymore to be at the custody of Atheists... the Non-believers of God.

So he gathered all his Disciples as a united Revolutionary force at Medina... and ROARED LIKE A LION to them.!...

...by uttering these Sacred Words... Kaaphir hai voa, joa Bandhae naheen Islam kae...

..and asked them to invade on the holy Mecca and gain possession under the custody of God-Believers...

..relieving from the Evil-clutches of Atheist leaders of the then Mecca.

Accordingly on his Emulative Leadership... Mecca was invaded.

Such a Battle... he named as JEHAD... meaning "Holy-Battle.!"

He won over the Mecca-Atheists in the Battle... and took possession of Mecca Region under his custody.

So he identified ONLY those SPECIFIC NON-BELIEVERS OF GOD (Atheists) AT MECCA in those days... as KAAPHIR

...who forced the Prophet Mohammad to move away from the Sacred place Mecca... they being the so called Enemies of God (Allah) ...

Whereas it is a pity... some persons mis-interpret these Divine words of Holy Koran.!..

..to pervertently mean the Sacred Word "Islam"... as the Islam-Religion... which another sense does not apply here.

The Great Religious Scholars of Islam as well as their authentic Imams categorically assert its meaning in the Arab Language... under this context, as

...Islam = God's Holy Message...

...Kaaphir = Atheist / Non-Believer of God.

The Great Allah God's Divine Message... through the holy Koran in the Arab language concurs very well... as also coincides and corroborates... with one and all the different Gospels of various Religions too.!...

..conveying the same concept in such parallel Holy-Messages of other Great Religions too...

... like Christianity... through Bible in Hebrew Language...

..as well as Vedas and Geetha in Sanskrit Language... of Hinduism the Vedic Religion.

Yes. All the popular Religious Gospels mean the same sense...

..."Whoever is an Atheist (Non-Believer of God) is the God's Opponent / Enemy"

Thus we understand... that although the Mankind worships and address Him differently as Allah, Easwara, God and the like...

...He is the ONE and the SAME.!... ONLY GOD Supreme.!..

That One Sole God's Divine- Message the Gospel is... also the same uniformly...

...although those Gospels are named differently in the various Divine- Languages... as Koran, Bible, Vedas, Dhammapada, Grantha-saheb and so on.

...Yes.! In God We Trust. !!!


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. Commonly applicable to the entire Mankind.!!!

..Being the Equal Children of One and the Same God.!.

...although holding Different Names and Paths...

...by Varied Religions.!

.

[anbu_kathir]

.
.

. Arabic-Gospel... Holy Koran.!.. GOD's MESSAGE.!...

...Mis-interpretation playing WORLD-WISE HAVOC.!


Sudhaamaji,

Although I understand the intentions with which you posted, I have a question to ask.

What is it that makes this interpretation (whatever you have written as the correct one) the correct one?


Let bygones be bygones. Trying to justify the misgivings of any religion as mere mis-interpretations is not going to change things, because from the fundamentalist's point of view, it is us who are mis-interpreting it. They have the exact same rights to the religion as we have.

Every religion has some text which is considered 'sacred' by ( a section ) of its followers, and which has deliberate words that can be straight away interpreted as to spread hate and division among humans. Such words were born out of minds filled with hate and fear, and it is the responsibility of any sane individual to accept that there were such people in positions of power in the old times, who were considered to be religious heads of the society.

It is for the present generation to keep a rational and compassionate mindset and put both before any doctrine from any holy book. Only that will create universal brotherhood and not pointing out fingers that "they are misinterpreting it ", while "we are correctly interpreting it". Such games of pointing-the-finger will only instigate more division and hate.

Love and Light.

[Sudhaama]

.
.No Shelter Nor Support for MUTUAL HATRED.!

... in the Name of God.!!! or Varied Religious Gospels..

...Conveying One Sole Message... UNIVERSAL-LOVE towards All.!

...Rudimentary Gospel of All Religions...as the Basis to All Humans.!

... From One & the Same Supreme-Ruler.!... Common to Global Humanity



.
. Arabic-Gospel... Holy Koran.!.. GOD's MESSAGE.!...

...Mis-interpretation playing WORLD-WISE HAVOC.!



Let bygones be bygones. Trying to justify the misgivings of any religion as mere mis-interpretations is not going to change things, because from the fundamentalist's point of view, it is us who are mis-interpreting it. They have the exact same rights to the religion as we have.

Every religion has some text which is considered 'sacred' by ( a section ) of its followers, and which has deliberate words that can be straight away interpreted as to spread hate and division among humans. Such words were born out of minds filled with hate and fear, and it is the responsibility of any sane individual to accept that there were such people in positions of power in the old times, who were considered to be religious heads of the society.

It is for the present generation to keep a rational and compassionate mindset and put both before any doctrine from any holy book. Only that will create universal brotherhood and not pointing out fingers that "they are misinterpreting it ", while "we are correctly interpreting it". Such games of pointing-the-finger will only instigate more division and hate.
.
.Any and Every follower of any Religion or Branch of Several pursuits of God-Faith... has Liberty to approach and perceive God... in the way he / she chooses...

..for which One may be able to find Justifications...

Yes.. We do not Interfere... Nor Oppose.... Nor decry... Since it is a matter of Varied Personal Faiths

But One Basic Truth... our FORCEFUL INSISTENCE... is the Foundation Human-spirit... being the Super-Birth on Earth.!

So... We, the Others amongst the same Global-Mankind are reminding all our Global-Brethren one Basic fACTOR...

...whether others (who OPPOSE OR DIFFER with us, on the Policy- Stand)... relish this REALITY OR NOT...

...All of us cannot deny one Truth....

That is... We all the different segments of Global Mankind are peeping at the SAME Sky.... as of other Global Humans...

... through other Windows of our Common One Global- Home...

...although are different each of our own... by various paths of God-Realisation... so called Religions.

Some others can Even DENY on the Existence of God, the Omnipotent Protector faith itself..!

OK. It is the Free-Will of the Varied Individuals!... But...!!!..???

Let Not anybody take Shelter in the Name of God.!!!..
..

..for their Own contentions and Surmises.!

...Nor anybody MIS-INTERPRET... the Sacred Gospels of the Supreme-Father... PROTECTOR GOD...

...the Embodiment of Mercy (Rahman)... and Great (Akbar) by each and every stroke of Letter... and every Streek of voice... addressed towards the Humanity... the God's Children.

When such poisonous self-willed contentions...Self-twisted inferences and Self-concocted attributions... Self-distorted CONTRADICTIONS...

...impossible to understand since INCONSISTENT and SELF-CONTRADICTORY... to the RUDIMENTAL CONCEPT itself as God

... since vastly deviating and conspicuously NON-CORROBORATING with the other sections of the same Scriptures... Holy Koran... .

...or such other Revered Gospels of other Religions in different Languages.

All such ONE God's Divine-Messages addressed to GLOBAL HUMANITY through various Prophets...

...are EQUALLY Holy... so to say... Koran , Bible, Dhammapada, Grantha-Saheb, Vedas and the like Basic Treatises...

...intended to ELEVATE & EMANCIPATE Mankind... towards the Highest Goal.. to be achieved by means of the Supreme Birth as Mankind...

..in the interest of each and everyone of Humanity...

...by UNITEDLY taking the BEST ADVANATAGE.... towards the Overall COLLECTIVE PROSPERITY...

...by TRULY UNDERSTANDING the God-Spirit conveying One & the Same Uniform BASIC-CONCEPT...

...by HUMAN-VALUES.!... towards MEANINGFUL LIFE... for Ones own.! "



Although I understand the intentions with which you posted, I have a question to ask.

What is it that makes this interpretation (whatever you have written as the correct one) the correct one?

Already I have clarified on this VALID QUESTION... convincingly answered by the Islamic Religious Scholars...

..who forcefully assert... addressing their own Brethren Muslims .!..

"Dear Brethren, We appeal to You...

You can Say anything whatever you feel right as per your Wisdom.!

..But for God's sake... PLEASE DO NOT TAKE SHELTER ON the Holy Koran...which addresses the WHOLE HUMANITY... with the Godly Spirit of UNIVERSAL-LOVE...

..Because the God Allah is the Greatest (Akbar)... as also Merciful (Rahman)

Nowhere in the holy Koran... it means Non-Muslims are Kaaphirs (Atheists)...

..or Anti-God... equal to Saithan as named in Koran.

...or Satan as named in Bible

...or Asura as named by Vedic Puranas.

Besides the Great Prophet Mohammad did not preach HATRED towards other Religious Faiths...

..which too parallelly existed all over the world...

..by different Names and Paths.

Yes. That "Sal" antagonised only one particular section of the then Mecca people mislead by a few AUTOCRATIC DOMINANT Leaders...

...who were REALLY ANTI-GODS.... whom alone he meant and fought against as the Kaaphir (Atheists / God's Enemies.!)

..Not other Religious Followers... who are NOT ANTI-GODS...

...since they also are the Real God-Believers in some form.!"
.

.

[Sudhaama]

.

. My TRUE EXPERIENCE.!... Miraculous.!!!

While I was employed as the Project-Engineer In-charge... at a Chennai Construction site... in 1954 (About 55 Years back)...

...I repeatedly tried to visit Thirumalai Temple... just to worship Venkateswara... for the first time in my life.

For more than One Year... my sincere endeavours repeatedly failed.

In a depressed mood.. I shed tears and prayed to Venkateswara one night.

Then the next day morning... My Project-Manager rushed towards me unexpectedly... at the early morning hours 06-30 am.

He used to visit my site once in a week... was not at all due then...

...because he had just visited the site on the previous day.

He informed me. "Oh.! You have been transferred to Thirumalai Hills. You must start immediately"

"Transfer.? To Thirumalai Hills itself.? Why now.? This Chennai works is at the Final stage... Yet to be completed. Why now I am disturbed.?..

...Any Bad name for me?..." I asked.

"No No.! In fact you have earned a VERY GOOD NAME by means of your hard and sincere work. So you have been promoted.!...

..Yes. Our Chief Engineer phoned to me last night at 11-00 pm...

..stating that the Executive Officer of TT Devasthanams.. Thirupathi phoned to him at about 10-00 pm...

..asking him to post immediately... one Qualified Civil-Engineer... substituting the present Site-Engineer at Thirumalai Hills...

So I consulted with different Executives in search of a suitable person.. for the post. I feel your Project-Engineer is the best choice. So relieve him immediately and send to Thirupathi.'

Accordingly I was packed off... and directed to Thirumalai Hills.. immediately.

The wonder was...

...The TTD Executive Officer Mr. Anna Rao at Thirupathi had suddenly got the idea... just immediately after my prayer at 10-00 pm. at Chennai.!!!

And that Top Exeutive officer was waiting to receive me at Thirumalai Hills... personally took me me to worship the deity Venkateswara at the Temple...

..with special attention and rare preveleges...

I could not control my tears out of fervour and asked Venkateswara "Oh God.! I just sought for ONE VISIT to you for worship...

... Did I seek for such a great honour for me an Ordinary Man.? Do I deserve it.?

...That too by my stay at your place... for construction of your property.?!!!

..for about Two long years.!!!.?"

Such a ROYAL TREATMENT... continued during my every visit to the Temple... especially during VIP's visits...

... during my Two years stay at Thirumalai.... on Construction for TTD.!


.God... in one or the other Form and Name... INDEED exists.!...

...for those WHO BELIEVE HIM.!!!.
.
.

[anbu_kathir]

.

. My TRUE EXPERIENCE.!... Miraculous.!!!


I could not control my tears out of fervour and asked Venkateswara "Oh God.! I just sought for ONE VISIT to you for worship...

... Did I seek for such a great honour for me an Ordinary Man.? Do I deserve it.?

...That too by my stay at your place... for construction of your property.?!!!

..for about Two long years.!!!.?"

Such a ROYAL TREATMENT... continued during my every visit to the Temple... especially during VIP's visits...

... during my Two years stay at Thirumalai.... on Construction for TTD.!


.God... in one or the other Form and Name... INDEED exists.!...

...for those WHO BELIEVE HIM.!!!.
.
.

Totally moving :).

Love and Light.