Sabari mala

[venkathari]

hi all,
I just joined the hub. I live in California... I was just wondering, if there is anyway I can wear Ayyappa Mala from here and then go to India in december or january to go to Sabari mala... Somebody, if u've any information about this let me know..
thanks ..
Hari.

[ts]

You may contact your local temple. The priest might be able to help.

[Gayathri]

hi all,
I just joined the hub. I live in California... I was just wondering, if there is anyway I can wear Ayyappa Mala from here and then go to India in december or january to go to Sabari mala... Somebody, if u've any information about this let me know..
thanks ..
Hari.

Its a good thought!! But dont you think the viradham could be a bit difficult, how would you walk in the streets of california without patharakshalu :)

is it ok to wear shoes while you are wearing ayappa mala?

[Sandeep]

But dont you think the viradham could be a bit difficult, how would you walk in the streets of california without patharakshalu :)

is it ok to wear shoes while you are wearing ayappa mala?

Hey now a days no one follows those strict rules even in India. Some of the rules may have had some definite reason in olden days but may no more be relevent.

After all the sabarimala temple athorities themselves changed rules so that temple can be opened for first 5 days of every month. Wasnt it driven by comercial realities. Moreover if you are honest in your love and devotion to god, he will not be conserned with your wearing footwear.

[ts]

Hey now a days no one follows those strict rules even in India. Some of the rules may have had some definite reason in olden days but may no more be relevent.


hit the nail on its head....

in the days when they formulated all these rules, sabarimala was totally inaccessible, in the middle of a very dangerous jungle. It has been tamed to certain extent now. walking with bare foot is just to get a feel and practise of the terrain that one has to endure for 40 miles. Nowadays, there is a road that leads up to pamba river and the trek is less than 4 miles on a well laid well lit pathway.
I am not asking anyone to throw away these rules but relaxing them to some extent is not something undesirable to do.

[nirosha sen]

Observing dietary restrictions, I can well understand but why do people have to dress up in those dark clothes? It's more form than substance to me, Pa!!

Anyway, all dogma is anathema to me! I'm still searching though for my spirituality.

[ts]

Observing dietary restrictions, I can well understand but why do people have to dress up in those dark clothes? It's more form than substance to me, Pa!!

Anyway, all dogma is anathema to me! I'm still searching though for my spirituality.

Ayyappa himself is called as "nIlavastradhAri". He wears ablue vastram. The jungles around sabarimala is full of elephants and tigers. I myself have seen fresh elephant dung while trekking through the forest. There are posters and notices all around of that being a tiger sanctuary and in 1994-95 we heard the growl at night once. There are loads of wild buffalo and wild boar around. These animals usually get attracted to bright colours and this is the idea in not wearing bright red or white vastrams. Blue vastram blends with the environment and chances of you getting noticed is minimal. Nowadays people wear all sorts of colour...

[pradheep]

Ayyappa is the son of vishnu and shiva. Vishnu is the sleeping consciousness (sath) and shiva is the dancing awareness (chith). Ayyappa is in the sitting posture to denote the two aspects to be experienced in life (sitting is neither in action (awareness) nor in-action (consciousness). Our true nature is consciousness, but for consciousness to experience itself, it takes a form of a body (awareness). We have taken a human form to experience our true nature, that is consciousness. Unfortunately we are always in the body form and we never experience that our true nature is consciousness. The ignorance is that we are just bodies that take birth and die, hardly ever even understanding that our true nature is not the body but that consciousness which is the power behind the functioning of the body.

Spiritual practices are meant to help us to know that our true nature is consciousness. What we have to break is our concept that we are the body. The vrtham to go to sabarimala is for this purpose.

The 41 days of vritham is to denote life's gestation total period of 41 weeks. Wearing black clothes is the traditional dress to indicate total with-drawl of mind from the action performing state to the awareness state. All colors originate from white but when mixed gives black color. The mind always goes after colors and to transcend that mind from the wavering colors , black is given to focus on the awareness. Withdrawing the mind from awareness to consciousness state is sadhana, which is to realize "consciousness". This is the purpose of life. We cannot give up actions. Through actions we transcend the “mindful state “Consciousness" state. This bliss is referred as "Sath-chith-ananda...which in modern terms is the bliss of "Being" in consciousness-awareness state.

Through objective ways we can never know consciousness because we are confusing with awareness, which is subjective.

Ayyapa vratha is a spiritual journey representing life. We get the knowledge of consciousness (Atma) through a guru and so we first go to a guru to get into the vratham. we use a tulsi mala as a means to do mantra japa holding on to its 108 beads. 108 is a mathematical rhythm of nature.

Then the one who does Ayyappa vratham address everyone as "Swami Ayyappa" to denote he or she is really the manifestation of consciousness. Swamiye Saranam (Thou protect me and I surrender). What has one possess to surrender?., Only the “I” thought. Many mis understand the “Surrender” to God or higher self. One has nothing to surrender other than the “I” thought or the identity to body mind complex thought. So in Ayyappa vrtham one does not mention one’s name or does other’s names or even relationships. Saranam Ayyappa is constantly repeated to drive in the thought that even this body is functioning through the power of consciousness. This is why during vratham the person keeps chanting swamiyae saranam ayyappa, even while eating sitting, walking and all mundane and professional and spiritual actions.

Importance is not given to physical comforts of body and so no shaving, no nail cutting, no wearing shoes etc is done so that it helps the mind to transcend from the body sense to the awareness state and finally to consciousness state.

On the 41s t day one starts to Sabarimala. The coconut represents the human body, the outer shell of the coconut symbolizes ego, and the ghee is the devotion one replaces the coconut water ( attraction to objects) in it. . Devotion comes over time with efforts and understanding, which is why ghee is used that is obtained from processing milk, churning curd , getting butter and melting it to ghee. Coconuts have three eyes: two eyes represent the intellect and the third eye is the spiritual eye. In the bag there are two compartments. The rear compartment of the Irumudi symbolizes 'Praarabdha Karma' (accumulated worldly possessions). The devotee exhausts all the worldly possessions during the journey and reaches the Sannidhanam with the ghee filled coconut
The walk by foot through the jungle symbolizes that the path to spirituality requires greater efforts.

On the way to sabarimala in Erumeli, one removes one’s own identity which is why in pettai thullal we apply color powder to our body and understand this body is the colorful spectrum of this universe to explore, experience and experience consciousness. The devotee dances in bliss and finally washes in holy pampa river, the identity of mind-body sense complex. This taking bath is the purification of the mind After this transcendence one climbs the 18 steps of "means of knowledge". Reaching the pinnacle, we get the darshan of the lord holding chhin mudra representing the "wholeness of consciousness". Then one breaks the coconut and showers the devotion on the lord. the coconut is finally burned in fire symbolizing knowledge. This act leads us to the understanding of the "Purpose of life"

I have written just a gist of Ayyappa thathva....a great spiritual pilgrimage one can have in life. Even living any where in this world one can do this vritham and understand the "True" nature of one's Being", which is consciousness.

Unfortunately people go to sabarimala to get a better job, house, car, promotion or to overcome physical illness , you name any obligations. One has to clearly understand that these things always comes even without going to sabarimala or praying to God. These spiritual practices and journey is for us to experience the bliss of knowing our own true nature. Otherwise we will one day be dead leaving this body and not knowing the true purpose of getting into this body and living life on earth. The Jyothi in sabarimala is the final indication of seeing our own “Inner Light” the Consciousness” which created this world and through which all manifestations arise and finally dissolves. Swamiyae Saranam Ayyappa.

[sonu gopi]

:P Hi! Pradheep - that was a very detailed explanation and I sincerely appreciate your effort. I believe Vishnu took the avatar as Mohini, the enchantress and a son was created between Mohini and Shiva = SREE AYYAPPAN. :P :P

Can you pls. tell us why women are allowed in Sabrimala only after their fifties (I know the main reason) but I would prefer a comprehensive account on this ancient tradition held and observed by all. :) :) :)

Some say that being a Bramachari he is against younger woman offering prayers to him - I find this hard to accept! :roll: :roll: I trust he is not anti-women - all negative thoughts could be man made!! :lol: :lol:

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SONU GOPI

[Sandeep]

:P Hi! Pradheep - that was a very detailed explanation and I sincerely appreciate your effort. I believe Vishnu took the avatar as Mohini, the enchantress and a son was created between Mohini and Shiva = SREE AYYAPPAN. :P :P

Can you pls. tell us why women are allowed in Sabrimala only after their fifties (I know the main reason) but I would prefer a comprehensive account on this ancient tradition held and observed by all. :) :) :)

Some say that being a Bramachari he is against younger woman offering prayers to him - I find this hard to accept! :roll: :roll: I trust he is not anti-women - all negative thoughts could be man made!! :lol: :lol:

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SONU GOPI

Reasons given by Devaswam board:

The concept about Ayyappa as installed at Sabarimala is that of a 'brahmachari in penance' (not just bhamachari). So women shouldnt disturb him.

41-day penance that is needed before undertaking the pilgrimage is impossible for young women because of menstruation.

[Sandeep]

AYYAPPA AND MALIKAPPURAM:
A pilgrimage to Sabarimala is not complete without visiting to Malikappuram, shrine of goddess at Sannidhanam. Though there are many stories about the relation between the Lord and Malikappuram, the most heartrending is the one portraying the goddess as Ayyappa's lover; certain rituals and practices underscore this theory.Mahishi was a demoness with the face of buffalo who wreaked havoc among villagers and sages. None could kill her as she was insulated with a boon that she shouldn't be killed by anyone born of man-woman relation. Ayyappa is believed to be the son of Siva and Vishnu and the main objective of his incarnation was to kill Mahishi.

After killing Mahishi at Erumely, the Lord danced on her carcass. Then Leela, the previous birth of Mahishi, came out of the dead body and bowed before Ayyappa with a request to marry her which was rejected by the Lord,
who had embraced Brahmacharya.

But Ayyappa told Leela that he would shed his sainthood if no new devotee visited him during a season. And she began her wait at the adjoining shrine.On the Makarasamkramam day (first of MAlayalam month Makaram falling in mid-January) after the Makaravilakku spectacle, idol of Malikappuram is taken out in a procession accompanied by drums and pipes. The goddess comes on an elephant to the pathinettampadi before proceeding to Saramkuthyaal, a pipal tree one km away from the shrine. New devotees visiting the shrine deposit toy bows and arrows bought from Erumely at this spot, believed to be where the Lord had left his weapons before merging with the Sastha idol.

On reaching the spot the goddess finds out that thousands of toy weapons are dumped at the spot announcing the arrival of many new devotees. The drums fall silent as Malikappuram slowly makes her way back to Sannidhanam
before she begins her one-year wait hoping that no new devotee would trek the mountain next season. One more chapter is added to a celestial love story.

[sonu gopi]

:lol: Thank you Sandeep. So far the story is very interesting - more to continue? How sad - looks like Mallika has to wait forever! :cry: :cry:

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SONU GOPI

[pradheep]

Good question. Now if you understand what I wrote above then it will make sense about my explaination about why women between 11 years and 55 yrs are not allowed in the temple. It is a pity that people literally take the facts of rituals without understanding the intended meaning.

The exercise in Ayyappa vratham is to understand “Consciousness” which is possible only when we transcend from our “Body-Mind” awareness-state to Consciousness-state. This transcendence is called Moksha or liberation, which means freeing oneself from the thought of Body mind to Consciousness. To achieve this liberation one should not “Create” or “breed” more thoughts that again bind us to the body-mind-state. The predominant or the sole-breeding thought of every living creation is to perpetuate itself in the form of Progeny (off-spring). The means to achieve this “Re-creation” is initiated through menstrual cycle. Menstruation represents “ground of fertility “ for creation to happen.

When one realizes “Consciousness” or “Self” then desires to bound to the body-mind sense-complex ceases. But that does mean the person would commit suicide or stop doing anything and sit in lethargy. What this means is that a self realized person understand the big cosmic play is happening through him or her and would perform his or her life like an actor performing a role in stage. He or she considers every individuals in the world as co-artists and would focus on the role the other person plays and not on the individual person. This way they don’t suffer from jealousy, greed, anger, hatred and all such negative emotions. The self realized person would be like an expert tennis player who would consider the ball his opponent and not on the opponent player. His focus is on the game with the ball and not with the opponent player. He understands the opponent player is just to deliver the ball.

This is what Krishna taught arjuna , not to look at Duryodhana as his enemy or his relative but to focus on the adharma that unfolded through him. The adharma is what to be fought against and not Duryodhan. This is like a tennis coach who always tells his student to focus on the ball and not on the player. This is the message of Gita and also the final understanding of Ayyappa vratham.

The problem with the non-self-realized individuals are that they are focused on the individual tennis-players and not on the ball in the tennis court. So they are always caught with the thoughts of the body-mind-sense complex and tend to “Breed” more and more thoughts.

The final message is that we all in our minds have the “seeds” of breeding but avoid the vehicle for that seed to germinate. Male (Purusha) is representation of :”Seed” and Female (Prakrithi) the symbol of the “Vehicle” for that seed to get nourishment and growth. The active “Prakrithi” is what we should avoid and hence in Sabaraimala to denote that avoidance, Female’s in fertile period (11-55) is avoided. The feminist and atheist do not understand this message and so they attack this rule as male chauvinism.

Without understanding this concept we cannot understand why maalika was refused to be married by Ayyappa. Maalika was cursed to become as Mahishini, who was killed by Ayyappa. Ayyappa told her he would marry her when no “New” devotees’s meet him. What does this new devotees mean and when would they stop coming?. Only when no more births occur would New devotees cease to come. Or when the number of people with less desires increase , so would the numbers decline. Presence of New devotees coming is indicated by Saram (arrow) in the Saramkuthu-kaavu. What does this mean?. Only when we liberate our minds from the negative tendencies, which like Ayyappa killing the demons in us, we will be able to transcend to Maalika’s state. Still we would not get into Moksha state, until we are sure that no more thoughts (arrows) arise. This is when Ayyappa weds Maalika. This is when our Awareness weds to Consciousness and attain Moksha.


Each time when we go to sabarimala we have to watch in our minds whether new “Sarams” (arrows) of thoughts (desires) arise. When the thoughts of “needs” supercedes thoughts of “wants” we would experience the Marriage of Ayyappa with Maalika. Without understanding the concept it is a pity for people to think that women’s presence would disturb the brahmachari Ayyappa. Then poor Ayyappa would fall even lower to the caliber of an ordinary human being with no self –control.

Ignorance of people have been so deep rooted that we fail to see the symbolism and the deep message of life in our spiritual practices. There is no God sitting us and watching us whether we are doing five times prayer and punish or reward us. God is consciousness which is our own true self. Consciousness having took a form and the awareness that comes out of it forgets itself to play the game of life. Spiritual practice is to transcend back to our source to know that we are Brahman or consciousness. This is the meaning of chin-mudra that ayyappa shows. Little finger represents body, ring finger represents mind (that is why in wedding ring is worn in ring finger or mind finger because the event is the joining of two individuals are mind level) . the middle finger is the senses and the fore finger is the “I” or ego thought. The thumb is the consciousness finger or intellect finger without which the other fingers are useless. The forefinger is always found attached with the other three fingers and when it transcends them it merges with the thumb to form a circle which indicates that this consciousness has no beginning and end. This is the thatva of chin mudra that Ayyappa shows and tells his devotees to achieve in life.

Without this realization poor maallika (awareness) has to wait for ever to wed Ayyappa (Consciousness).

[sonu gopi]

:) Thanks again Padheep and Sandheep.

Pradheep - looks like Sree Ayyappa Swami was being very polite to Mallika by giving her such ploy excuse - but in actual fact he was not too keen to marry her. Unless the world comes to an end there is always yearly flow of people! Wonder why she didn't get the message but seem to wait year after year for him - what a romantic saga! :lol: :lol:

Sandheep - The toy weapons (bows & arrows) you were talking about – made from the leaves of a pipal tree about 1 km from the shrine - is it only a tree or there are many trees? Must be aged old tress (just curious)? Is it also to show Mallika a proof of human presence at the shrine? Otherwise she will feel cheated!!:wink:

With so much of restrictions for females (I respect their reasoning) it looks like only a few of them can make it up to Sabrimala. After ceasing their menstrual cycle ( 55 yrs) and lack of natural Estrogen many of them will slowly but surely show signs of weakness in their bones – eg. Osteoporosis. They are also prone to develop diabetes and high blood pressure too. How can they fulfill such strict vradam and proceed this strenuous journey? How very disappointing! Both ways we are unlucky!:cry: :cry:

Besides your reasons it could be also be due to the inconveniences the females encounter during menstrual cycle and hygiene is an important factor when you meet a brahmachari like Sabrimala Sree Ayyappa Swami! :P

Both of your descriptions are so vivid and self explanatory – been to Sabrimala?? :lol: :lol:

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SONU GOPI :)

[pradheep]

Please do not take the story literally. Ayyappa was not making excuses to avoid maalika. Probably I did not explain clearly that there is now no Ayyappa and maalika who are awaiting to get married. There is no excuse of Ayyappa...... our minds makes excuses to delay our awarness to merge with consciousness. it is the flow of desirous thoughts that we have to been in check and find out ways to solve the problem. Every time we make this vratham we have to be aware of our thoughts and finally we can merge with consciousness. The world is nothing but our own mind which everyday gets created and dissolved. In waking state it is created and in sleep it dissolves. This is the mystery of this world and equally beautiful to know its reality.

I have been only three times to sabarimala. After that comming to USA I did not go but do vratham every year. This year I am starting the vratham on November 16th Tuesday. Every year when I finish the vratham I am able to see Ayyappa very clearly and all that I have written here is not bookish knowledge. Its my experience which everyone can experience and probably should experience.

I understand there is no AYYappa sitting and watching the world and blessing devotees whoever comes to sabrarimala. As I mentioned before even without going to sabarimal one's life would go the same. The reason to do ayyappa vratham every year is for "Inner Purification of the mind". Without purification of the mind going to sabarimala is a waste, like a kid going to school without learing its lessons. To summarize Ayyappa vratham is for inner purification and realize God (consciousness).

[pradheep]

Regarding old women doing ayyappa vratham and going to sabarimala when have old age diseases is very good. Vratham not only purifies the mind but also the body. I have heard from many old ladies that when they do the vratham they enjoy many health benfits.


In Gita krishna tells for women no need for tapasya, but serving their family taking care of husband children is real thapasya and way to enlightenment. But today many women folks are neglecting their prime duty of taking care of family and make every one's life miserable. Well we learn out of mistakes.

Our ancient masters request to do spiritual practices atleast in the old age when they missed their entire youth. Women in their youth looking after family and observing vrtham with their husband is enough. Look how our ancient masters have made women easy practice. My wife does vratham along with me, which is equal to going to sabarimala.

[sonu gopi]

I have been only three times to sabarimala. After that comming to USA I did not go but do vratham every year. This year I am starting the vratham on November 16th Tuesday. Every year when I finish the vratham I am able to see Ayyappa very clearly and all that I have written here is not bookish knowledge. Its my experience which everyone can experience and probably should experience.


You have explained everything so clearly - I have always felt it was more of an experience you were writing rather than from the books - but I was waiting for you to say so during your course of writing this article. 8)

Being a Malayalee myself (I presume you are too) I vaguely remember seeing my grand-uncles getting ready to go to Sabrimala and the prayers conducted - but I was very young then when I visited Kerala. I am captivated by Sree Ayyappa Swamiji's sitting position - which always made me wanting to know more and the reason behind it. :roll:

Pls. explain the above quote in blue - I need to know this experience. Is it an illusion or an appearance of Ayyappa swamiji for those lucky ones who have gone thr'u this devout ritual.Thank you so much and all the best for your forthcoming vratham.

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SONU GOPI

[pradheep]

Seeing Ayyappa is not through physical eyes. It is not an illusion. Only when one knows consicousness , then one understands what illusion menas. Seein colors lights and all those things are the thoughts in the mind. Also the experience cannot be described in words. No one can explain. That is the mystery and fun of it. One can give only the means to know God (consicousness) but can never describe it. Even modern science is caught in this situtation. So they confuse awareness with consciousness but are both different. The ancient masters have distinguished it both very clearly and this is why they have explained through puranas which through inference we can get it.

To put it simple, there are three levels , just to explain. The first is bodymind sense , then the next level is awareness and then the final level is consciouness.

In normal day to day life activities we are always at the first level the body-mind sense level, and rarely we go into the other levels. We are not able to control (chanalize) our thoughts or overcome it because we dont act at the awareness level. We have to de-clutch from the bodymind level to get into the awareness level. As the awareness mature it automatically transcends into the consciouss level. People who operate only at body-mind sense level also experience the awarness level while in dreaming state. At dreaming state the body sense complex is gone and only the mind remains active dreaming about things and events. Finally in deep sleep theawareness transcend to consciousness level and here e even the mind drops off.

Spiritual practice like ayyappa vratham is to acheive these states even while we are awake. In this way we understand the deep secrets of our mind and this universe. This is the experience one can get.

Hope I am clear in explaining what I meant by seeing Ayyappa. If you are interested I can explain how to do this spiritual practice in the real sense. People take literally everything and that is why everything becomes meaningless. Yesterday in my town the Indian community was celebrating deepavali... it is festival of light. hey did lakshmi pooja lit lamps and brought the light from outside to inside of home with the belief that they are bringing ashta lakshmi's home. It is very sad People do lakshmi pooja without understanding the concept that doing lakshmi pooja is not for material wealth. It is meant bring in our hearts the eight lakshmi's the real wealth for us.
Every year they do this and I see no change in the people. Some become materialistically better and some become worsen than the previous years. I keep telling them this is not for material wealth. Brining light to home is really light to our hearts. Without brining lakshmi in our hearts we can never see lakshmi. Lakshmi will ever remain a picture in a photo or in a statue. To see lakshmi and know cosnciousness, one has to do the intended meaning.

This also applies to Ayyappa vratham. Going to sabarimala for 18 years will not bring any change in the external world when our internal world has not changed.

[sonu gopi]

quote="pradheep"]
If you are interested I can explain how to do this spiritual practice in the real sense.
It is meant to bring in our hearts the eight lakshmi's the real wealth for us. Without bringing lakshmi in our hearts we can never see lakshmi. Lakshmi will ever remain a picture in a photo or in a statue. To see lakshmi and know consciousness, one has to do the intended meaning.[/quote][/color]

Yes I would like that very much…..but before that could you pls. explain:-

1. The sitting position of Sree Ayyappa? - really unique!
2. Sabri means.......?? Is it another name for Sree Ayyappa?
3. Significance of Lakshmi pooja – the intended meanings you are refering to.

Thank you so much for the trouble taken to explain. Appreciate it very much. Pls. take your time.

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SONU GOPI

[ts]

1. The sitting position of Sree Ayyappa? - really unique!
2. Sabri means.......?? Is it another name for Sree Ayyappa?


1. The Meditating Yogic posture of Sri Ayyappa represents the Brahman. This is the typical posture that one sits and meditates wearing a meditation belt. This posture helps one concentrate in his meditation.

2. Sabari is the name of an old lady, in the days of Ramayana, who offered fruits to Lord Rama when he visited this place, searching for Sita. This is the very forest where he met Hanuman and Sugreeva.

[pradheep]

2. Sabri means.......?? Is it another name for Sree Ayyappa?

Sabari is a model of a devotee.....who becomes innocent in her actions like a child. She did not meet or even see Rama but developed devotion on him and when she met Ram, she gave him the sweet fruits of her devotion and avoided the sour ego. This is how every devotee should be. She instantly attained moksha because of this devotion. (Understand that it is not the beelif on Ram that got sabari, the moksha.....but it her mind that has been purified that gave her Moksha...). Hence the forest was named after her, sabari-mala. Ayyappa chose this mountain hills so that devottees would be transformed like Sabari. Beleif on God would not help anyone to realize God, but the practice of purifying the mind is what helps. Even God cannot even purify the mind unless the devotee wanted to do so.

1. The sitting position of Sree Ayyappa? - really unique!

I have explained this earleir in this thread about the uniqueness of the sitting posture. To rephrase it...........consciousness is static and awareness is dynamic. These two aspects are shown in the lying posture of vishnu and dancing posture of shiva. To rest and relax we go into lying posture (consciousness) . To perform action we take standing posture (action represented by dancing) To observe or watch something we most often take sitting posture. Ayyappa is in the sitting posture means the observing state. This state gets one to the conscious-awareness (observing) state which is called sat-chit-ananda. Sitting is neither in action state nor in inactive state, it is pure observing state. This is the meditative state. Meditation is not just simply closing eyes, crossed legged for many minutes or hours. We should be in this meditative state when we are awake. The belt Ayyappa wears signifies the realm of the observance. It is like we sitting to observe a soccer match. We draw a boundary between the realm of the player and we observer. That boundary (belt) is what shown in ayyappa's sitting posture.

We normally are always in the standing (dancing) posture which means always engaged in performing actions. Once we are totally in action we cannot observe. when we de-clutch us from action we can observe ourself. It is spimply observing us doing things. Then we observe the duality in us. We observe ourself doing actions and this observing nature is very important to transcend into consicousness state.

It is exactly like an actor's performance. An actor acting a role. if the actor is self-aware that he is an actor perofrming a role, he is in obderving mode. He is so clear that he the actor and role he is performing is so different. Because he is himself watchign his actions he gives a very good performance and so for the external movie watchers they forget him as the actor and feel he is the role.

Similarly we have to watch ourself doing a role of a scientist, actor, doctor, bussinessman, saint, criminal, terrorist, teacher, student, mother, father, child etc. Unfortunately we forget to watch ourself and so attached to the roles we are performing.

So instead of getting in the lying posture (total in-action) in which we cannot experience anything (samadhi), it is best for experience to be in this consciousness-awareness state. This is the sittign posture of ayyappa.


How to get into this state. Spiritual practise. Many masters give many different ways. For me the best was to chant a mantra "Accept". This means I accept people and situations as they are. This does not mean i dont react and be like a stone. I mean inwardly I accept people as they are. This makes me de-atached and be not angry on any one else, be free from jealousy, hatred, pride, ego etc etc. This freedom of mind is the bliss. This is the way I could do the ayyappa vratham as seeing everyone as ayyappa, because there is no judgement on any one else...only analytical. Being judgemental on people I become analytical. being analytical is good.

This "acceptance" is not easy in the begining.....our ego does not allow this to be practice. it gives all temptations. That is where the practise gain momentum.

Hope this helps to begin with. Let me know if you are interested to know more.

[sonu gopi]

1. The Meditating Yogic posture of Sri Ayyappa represents the Brahman. This is the typical posture that one sits and meditates wearing a meditation belt. This posture helps one concentrate in his meditation.

2. Sabari is the name of an old lady, in the days of Ramayana, who offered fruits to Lord Rama when he visited this place, searching for Sita. This is the very forest where he met Hanuman and Sugreeva.

Thank you ts for your prompt reply - appreciate it very much. I almost thought Sabri was a name given to a man!! :oops:

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SONU GOPI :lol:

[sonu gopi]

It is like we sitting to observe a soccer match. We draw a boundary between the realm of the player and we observer. That boundary (belt) is what shown in ayyappa's sitting posture.

So instead of getting in the lying posture (total in-action) in which we cannot experience anything (samadhi), it is best for experience to be in this consciousness-awareness state. This is the sittign posture of ayyappa.

For me the best was to chant a mantra "Accept". This means I accept people and situations as they are. This does not mean i dont react and be like a stone. I mean inwardly I accept people as they are. This makes me de-atached and be not angry on any one else, be free from jealousy, hatred, pride, ego etc etc. This freedom of mind is the bliss. This is the way I could do the ayyappa vratham as seeing everyone as ayyappa, because there is no judgement on any one else...only analytical. Being judgemental on people I become analytical. being analytical is good.

This "acceptance" is not easy in the begining.....our ego does not allow this to be practice. it gives all temptations. That is where the practise gain momentum.

Hope this helps to begin with. Let me know if you are interested to know more.

Pradheep - your explanations are clear but I think it needs a lot of thinking and concentration. I have to read carefully all what you have written in this thread - copy and print it out. You are talking all the time about consciousness within us – how to attain this consciousness is what is confusing me - what sort of training do one have to go thru'?

Sree Ayyappa's sitting position – I always thought the belt was a support for him to sit in such a position – not to lose balance! How wrong I was! Samadhi - isn't a sitting position when an holy man/guru dies?

Perhaps you could write book on methods of meditation/ developing consciousness for people like me to understand further – step-by-step.

Life is full of mystery – the power of God - is it within us in our conscience mind too? Our birth/death is a mystery also. If you detach yourself from hatred, jealousy, greed, pride and ego then do you develop love, kindness,concern, goodwill, support as well or detach from that too! (sorry if my sentence is not constructed properly) What is this bliss you experience?

I am interested in knowing everything you are willing to write. Hope I am not troubling or taking too much of your time. Thank you again.

**********
SONU GOPI

[pradheep]

Thanks Gopi,
Yes I will help as much as I can. I can only show the way, you have to walk through it. I have already written a book explaining all these concepts. If you are interested you can buy it in amazon.com or ebay or at my site www.matrixjourney.com
I have explained consciousness and awareness using matrix movies as a platform in the book "Journey To the Source decoding matrix trilogy".

Yes , i will help you to know consciousness. If you can follow just this acceptance of people and situations you can see light. That will help you to know further. I understand people know about atma, god blah blah blah. I found the sad thing is that they know all this but lack experience. Experience comes only out of practice. It is like reading dummy's book for driving car and knowing it how to drive it. Unless one sits in car and with a help of an instructor drive it practically, one will never learn to drive a car. The same is with spiritual practice. I wanted to know God and for that i read many books. Finally I went into practice which found is the only way. I have been helping a few of my freinds and they found this acceptance is helping me a lot.

we have a satsang where we get together for an hour on saturdays. Instead of teachign Gita, I give the essence of every chapter and tell the means to realize that essence in everyday life. For one week the members practice and we discuss the following week. This has tremendous impact. Our experience is that people with 20 to 40 years of sadhana are seeing light with this every moment practice. One could apply this at home and at work and every where one finds only success.

Due to request of friends we will be posting in the web site practice for every week. In december we will start to post this and hope you can also read and get benfitted.

I can also share the information here. I will explain more of the questions when I get time in this thread also soon. Just try to do the acceptance ....... that will open your inner doors. I tell my friends this is the password to get access to the cosmic computer. The password is "Accept".

[sonu gopi]

I can only show the way, you have to walk through it. I have explained consciousness and awareness using matrix movies as a platform in the book "Journey To the Source decoding matrix trilogy".

We have a satsang where we get together for an hour on saturdays. Just try to do the acceptance ....... that will open your inner doors. I tell my friends this is the password to get access to the cosmic computer. The password is "Accept".

Greetings Dr. Pradheep – I didn’t know that I was having such an interesting and educational conversation with a scientist who in fact has written a book – Journey to the Source!

Imagine me suggesting you to write a book – I feel so ashamed for not reviewing further. Your explanations were so absorbing that I kept looking forward for more and thought to myself that how productive and beneficial these information could be for all - if bound into a book!

What do you call your “satsang” group? Do you also explain on visions and dreams too besides Sree Ayyappa consciousness?

Yes, I do love to purchase this book which I hope is within my means. The password "Accept" is acceptable by me, Sonu!

Looking forward to your response on all my queries. Thanks.

********
Sonu Gopi

[pradheep]

Please address me as pradheep. Dont feel ashamed. We are all here on earth to help each other in our journey to the source. All native cultures have this in their tradition. We from India also have the same concept.

Satsang means the sangam (gathering) for knowing the sath (truth, reality). Instead of just dwelling on doing rituals, prayers, bhanjans, spiritual discourses, a group of people in our town we search for the truth in all the spiritual practices. We concentrate more on Gita because it is very easy to follow and very interesting.

In the introduction chapter we discussed why have we gathered here. what are we seeking and why we seek through gita?. These were the questions we first asked ourselves.

Krishna is not only a teacher of Arjuna but also the cousin as well as brother in law of Arjuna. So many times they have met in life. So why did then krishna impart the knowledge of Gita to arjuna only in the battlefield?. This is a very important question to ponder.

We found that when Arjuna had met with many life crisis , like escaping death in the wax palace, lost the kingdom, wealth, family, wife being humiliated, went to 13 years of exile etc etc. Interesting is that even is such crisis he never asked krishna for any knowledge because he felt that these crisis he can manage. All those lost materialistically he can win over. He felt he can do that because he had the ability.


Now look at the condition when he looked for Krishna's knolwedge. When he found that soemthing that his intellect cannot solve, nor his life experience can give clarity, the mystery of life he dropped all his weapons and stood as an act of surrender to krishna. This was the moment krishna imprated Gita to Arjuna.

Look at us. We are also like arjuna....many a times we get in many different types of crisis....and we might think we can solve it and ofcourse we do. But at a certain point in life or situation we find ourself helpless and we know that whatever experience or information we have cannot solve our problem. This is the moment when we start our spiritual quest. For different people different reasons trigger the spiritual quest. Some of out of loss of dear ones get into the path of spiritual enquiry. Some out of financial difficulties and some out of boredom in life. For me luckily these were not the reasons. For me it was my deep interest in science that finally culiminated in this path. I used to go into depths of different branches of scinces -physics, chemistry and biology more intensely. But one question was always a mystery. That made me to search through the spiritual science and finally what i did not get resolved I got through spirituality. For me spirituality and science are two different paths leadign to the same goal.

There is only two different directions of enquiry. Science goes outside the body to find answers and spritual turns inward. The outside enquiry stops at the last step , while the inward takes one to the source.

So in the group we discussed that we have come to Gita just to find the ultimate meaning of life. Krishna did not teach Gita unless asked for it. So that is why he says its secret. Why is vedic wisdom called secret?. People wrongly interpret it. it is secret because it is only told to some one who really needs it and given to one who knows the worth of its greatness. it is not something to be preached and used for convertion of people or brainwashing into a belief system. This is a total enquiry and has nothing to believed. To tell the truth this is a system to break all beleif systems and see the truth as it is.

Having understood this in the introduction chapter of Gita, we took the message of practising acceptance for a week. Acceptance is to drop all notions and be ready to accept people and situations as it is. But it does not mean to go and sit in himalayas and meditate. if that was the teaching of Gita (as wrongly understood) , krishna would have told Arjuna , dont fight, this world is an illusion......so go and sit under a tree or a cave in himalayas and meditate. Not did he say fighting is evil , it is non-violence, it is a sin to kill people and so give them the kingdom they wanted. Not did krishna tell arjuna, why are you after materialistic possession, which would ultimately go from you one day. He did not say anything like this in Gita. Krishna infact asked Arjuna to fight.

Here we decided to fight a world of notions in our minds. This is the message of the introduction.

I would post the message of first chapter in my next post. probably once a week and so if you wish you could also practice it for a week.

[sonu gopi]

Thank you Pradheep - looking forward for your postings. :lol:

How many of you are in this small Satsang group? Do you have others besides Indians participating as well?

*********
SONU GOPI

[pradheep]

Our group is small around 12 members and 50% are americans and 50% Indians.

Getting back to Ayyappa story......the mahishi was in her previous birth leela. Leela was the daughter of a sage and was married to datta. Datta was the combined energy of the trinity's (brahma vishnu mahesh) and leela was the combined energy of the wives of the trinity's (sarawati lakshmi pravati). Datta in his old age told leela that he wanted to give up family life and take to sanayasa. Leela wanted to continue for more time in wolrdly life and so they often had quarells about this matter. One day out of anger datta cursed leela that because of her attachment to the world life too much that she will be born as mahishi.

Next birth leela was born as mahishi and was the cousin of mahishasura which durga later kills. Mahishi got a boon that she will be killed only by a guy who would be born to two males. Thinking that such a birth would never happen she brought terror in the world. Finally Ayyappa born out of shiva and vishnu killed her and got leela out of her curse.

Since leela was not ready to take up sanyasa to attain moksha with datta, she had to wait to marry ayyappa till he helped others to attain moksha.

These stories go into the depth of human pysche and teach us about moksha. Moksha is something not got after death. it is acheived right now in this human life in this human body.


Everyone wishes for moksha but very few get it. Why?. It is like in a classroom where all students wishes to get top grades. But only a few get it . why?. Only those who give effort to it achieve it. This is the same in spiritual life too. Many have the wish to know consciousness (god/ atma/ reality etc) but only few get it because more than the wish the effort (sadhana /practise) is mandatory.

[sonu gopi]

These stories go into the depth of human pysche and teach us about moksha. Moksha is something not got after death. it is acheived right now in this human life in this human body.

Everyone wishes for moksha but very few get it. Why?. It is like in a classroom where all students wishes to get top grades. But only a few get it . why?. Only those who give effort to it achieve it. This is the same in spiritual life too. Many have the wish to know consciousness (god/ atma/ reality etc) but only few get it because more than the wish the effort (sadhana /practise) is mandatory.

How is Moksha attain then? Is it thru' meditation/vrtham/unlocking the conscious mind? What is Moksha Deepam? Usually they apply this for the dead?:roll:

Appreciate your guidence, Pradheep. :lol:

********
SONU GOPI

[pradheep]

Moksha is not given by anybody....it is the freedom from the prison of our minds. We are trapped in the hands of our minds and so suffer from all limitations, concepts etc and never know the reality. There is no God comming and giving us moksha........it is through teaching we get this. This is why Guru (means one who means ignorance) is given so much importance without which we cannot get moksha....

Moksha deepam is symbolic of the light ....of death. Death of what? Death of ignorance.

[pradheep]

Only in Hinduism there is no concept of good and evil at the absolute level. At the relative level it is clear that these are concepts and help the soceity to work properly. But at the absolute level there is no good and evil. Look at various puranas and especially ayyappan purana where leela is the tri-sakhi's born as demoness mahishi and datta born as ayyppan as divine. there is always the battle between the desire (male) and its expression (female). Watch our thoughts......thoughts of desire do arise but it is our choice to allow expression of it. Those who allow expression without any check manifest as evil and those who does with control brings forth good actions.
This is why the basic principle of ayyppa practise and religion is to reconginze the divinity which is unque from other philosophies and religions.

[Hema]

peneggel sabimalai aiyapaney vanakalama?

[sonu gopi]

peneggel sabimalai aiyapaney vanakalama?

I am very sure we can just as how we pray to the other deities. However, women are only allowed at Sabarimala after reaching certain age.

Pls. refer to the articles written by pradheep which is self-explanatory.

I am sure he will explain in detail on this to further enlighten us.

**********
SONU GOPI

[pradheep]

Detailed information of symbolism of sabarimala , ayyappa, the rituals and meaning are given here in this link

http://sakthifoundation.org/sabarimala-2.htm