Mankind.. BORN-VEGETARIAN.??..!!

[Sudhaama]

Majority of Mankind are ... Non-Vegetarians... ever since the Man was born on Earth... which continues now.

Why they take Non-Veg... is not the Question here. .. Some preferably like its Taste... Some out of Necessity.. Some out of Practice from childhood since brought up so.... and so on.... Well.

And parallelly... there is another Group ... as Vegetarian... too...!

Such two categories within the same Creature... based on Food-habits... exist only in Mankind....That too with Sub-classifications amongst Non-Vegetarians... like some of them do not relish Sea-Foods... Some totally dislike Chinese or Japanese Foods made of Insects and Snakes and so on...

Whereas... amongst the Vegetarians ... there are no Sub-Classifications... All vegetarians do not avoid any category of Fruits, or such Edibles... but may only have preferences....and Not by aversion like the other Category.... Why? How? ...

While God created the Earthly Creatures... Alongside He has created the due Foods as well as the matching Bodily Organs too, apt enough to reach, capture, cut into convenient shape and size... and consume .... coupled with the matching Saliva and Digestive internal bodily mechanism.... as we see in one and all the Creatures other than Mankind... Biologically..

In that Biological consideration... where does the Man fit in out of these Two..?

... or a Special Category unlike any other Creature...similar to Ant-Eater... which eats only Ants and Bees ... and its Body-Mechanism is quite apt for such unique Food for it.

Scientifically speaking.... Is Man .... a Born-Vegetarian ? ... Or...

...Non-Vegetarian ? If Yes... Why the Sub-Categories of Taboo?..

or.. Suited to Both the Type of Foods ...?.... How ?... Why?

[Dalits]

-deleted-

[santosh108]

Dalits

Why is there a vicious need to give a religious twist to this topic ?

If you think its virtuous being a vegetarian, than you must be disappointed to know that Hilter was also a vegetarian.

[Sudhaama]

Vegetarian?... Only Hitler?.... Several Famous Europians including the Jewish Scientist Albert Eisnsteine, English Writer George Bernard-Shaw , German Medical-Research-Scholar and Founder of Homeopathy....Dr Hanehman and so on .. were also Vegetarians... who felt a pride to say so... amidst many the majority Non-Vegetarians in Dining-Parties.

[Hemant Trived1]

If man was born vegetarian, he would not have DRAGON TEETH.
He would have only MOLARS. :roll:

[Sudhaama]

(1) For every God- created Living-Being,... .... He has created alongside.... the Apt variety of Food too.... matching with its .... Functions and Purpose.... of Life on Earth.... Correct?

(2) Suiting to acquire.... its prescribed Food.... change into convenient form for eating... and further to digest it too... the Nature has provided the apt Physical Organs like... Teeth, Nails, Limbs, Saliva, Stomach as well as the well-matching Digestive-System on the whole coupled with the Assimilative innate Mechanism too which varies amongst the Creatures according to its Functions and Purpose of Existence on Earth.... Correct?

(3) It is an interesting Point to observe... that the Horse eats Grass ... but Not Leaves.. while the Elephant eats Leaves Not the Grass... and the Monkey eats only Fruits ... Not the Grass or Leaves... even though all these are the Varieties of Vegetarian Edible-stuff containing abundant Vitamins, Minerals and such other Nutritious Ingrediants vital for Life.... Why So?

(4) Similarly Non-Vegetarian Creatures too are choosy... why ? Suppose we feed them with different Food-variety... why it hates.... or lead to illness... although all are Non-Vegetarian Foods of abundantly rich Nutritious value?.... Why?

(5) Irrespective of the one of the Varieties of Food each Vegetarian or Non-Human-Creatures eat ... all those Specific Vegetarian Species ...... form into ONE Broad Group... by way of its Living-manners and Habits, as well as Inborn Physical-features too... and Similarly to the other Group too.... Is it Not?... How?.... Why?

(6) All the Born Non-Vegetarian Species eat their Non-Veg. Food without any difficulty ... as the Main Dish without any dire Supplements. Whereas Man is able to eat the Non-Veg. Food Only as the SIDE-DISH...and Not the Main-Dish... which is invariably the Vegetarian stuff. Why so?

[Sandeep]

Though human body is equiped for consuming non-veg it is best suited for having vegetarian food. Human dragon teeth is not has profound as that of carnivorous being. Moreover our digestive system and habits are not suited for non-veg.

But then I assume eating cooked food itself is not something natural.

[blahblah]

I am not too sure about the teeth and the rest of the body,but my tastebuds call for some blood.And,I mean to answer that call ! :twisted: :twisted:

[Sandeep]

I am not too sure about the teeth and the rest of the body,but my tastebuds call for some blood.And,I mean to answer that call ! :twisted: :twisted:

Can't agree more.

Especially if it is a fried Rabbit. :twisted:

[blahblah]

Can't agree more.

Especially if it is a fried Rabbit. :twisted:

Fried eggs belong to veg or non-veg? :twisted: :twisted:

[Hemant Trived1]

Sudhaama wrote,

"while the Elephant eats Leaves Not the Grass... and the Monkey eats only Fruits ... Not the Grass or Leaves..."

Please know biology properly. Elephants do eat grass, Monkeys eat leaves aswell as grass roots and sometimes juicy grass stems.

Human beings are vegetarian by choice and not by birth.

[Sudhaama]

"Hemant Trivedi"

// Sudhaama wrote,...."while the Elephant eats Leaves Not the Grass... and the Monkey eats only Fruits ... Not the Grass or Leaves..."

Mr. Hemant Replied.... ..//Please know biology properly.//

Dear Mr. Hemant....

May be I am a Fool... totally Ignorant of Biology... even though I have read lot of Books on various subjects of deep knowledge.... including Biology... as well as had wide contacts with Experts on multi-fareous specialities too ... since the past more than 60 years...

... In any case I always consider myself as ... a Student... anxiouis to learn from others who know better than me... even now in my Seventees.

And Mr. Hemant, you have to keep in mind... that this is not the Court-of Law... where different constant combatants argue to establish their stands

... Nor a Debating Forum... where each side... tries to defeat the other side... someway or other....

... But just a DISCUSSING-FORUM... of Friends-meet... for exchanging our Knowledge, Thoughts and Views...By means of which all of us are benefitted without the generation of heat or mutual- bitterness as the End-Result unlike the other cases.

You can see ... how I have initiated and conducting the Topic... with Question marks... for which we all have to find a Scientific Answer.

In any case... I have to point out that I feel hurt at your such scathing attack on me personally. Even if I talk something FOOLISH... Can you take Liberty to call me as a Fool ... Even in such cases you can only say .... that I am wrong... or even mine is a Non-sense... so to say only pertaining to the Topic but not on the Person behind....

I am sorry... I did not expect you will say like this... because I am thinking high of you.

// Elephants do eat grass, Monkeys eat leaves aswell as grass roots and sometimes juicy grass stems.//

If I say Human-beings sleep in day-time unlike Owls and Bats... perhaps you may refute it saying that the Night-watchmen and such other Night-duty-Employees on Trains, Air-flights, Hospital-services... etc. do not work in day time but at Night hours... what it will mean?... Same is the case here.

You are right to say... that the Elephants eat some varieties of Grass... like Fibre-varities like Sugar-cane , Bamboo-type shrubs which are Biologically termed as Grass... but in the Forest wealth... they are not classified as Grass... based on the Practical aspect by way of Utility. So to say Sugar-cane like Juicy Fibres are relished much by Elephants but Not the Horse...

What I meant was the General classification of grass... in the common-man's angle. In brief... I mean .. what is Food for One is rejected by the other..


//Human beings are vegetarian by choice and not by birth./

Will you please elaborate and Justify?... The scope of this Forum is to invite multi-fareous angles of divergent factors...Scientifically.

Please speak out more in detail... alongside your replies to all my questions raised hereabove.

[Hemant Trived1]

Dear Mr.Sudhaama,
No need to feel bad. My remark about knowing Biology was meant as a suggestion to know more, not a taunt.
I am , may be the only hubber who walks on the farthest side of the road and have mildest temparament.
Confrontation is not my cup of tea.

Elephants do eat grass which is one of their choice items of food during the day .
I am quoting a piece from net.

"Common Name: African Elephant
Scientific Name: Loxodonta africana

Pachyderm Profile
The African elephant is the largest living land mammal, with its relative, the Asian or Indian elephant, coming in a close second. Adult African elephants reach a length of 18-24 feet and a height of 10-13 feet. They weigh in at 8,800-15,500 pounds. Maximum size is reached at around 25 years of age.

Habitat
African elephants are native to a wide variety of habitats, including semi-desert scrub, open savannas and dense forest regions. However, whereas elephants once ranged throughout Africa, they are now mostly confined to parks and reserves south of the Sahara Desert. Only about 20% of their range is under some form of protection.

Diet
In keeping with their enormous proportions, elephants are big eaters. In fact, they dedicate as many as 18-20 hours of the day to feeding. When full-grown, these huge herbivores can consume anywhere from 300-500 pounds of vegetation per day. In the wild, their diet consists mainly of grass, tree foliage, bark, roots, shrubs and fruit. They'll even ingest soil for its mineral content

UNQUOTE.

Human developed from flesh eating mammals as large as a cat or even smaller.
As millions of years went by, a lot of evolutionary changes took place. What is common among primates and apes is the presence of canine teeth which are four in number. Primary function of canine teeth is tearing flesh.
They are remenants of old legacy of flesh eating.
Humans are born non vegetarians by this fact.
Only due to subtitute their diet with whatever was available, as a means of survival they developed their tastes into accepting vegetarian diet.
Best example is Bear .
Bear is at home with whatever food it gets including fruits, vegetables and also grass .Bear is a true omnivorous animal.

I am sorry if I have pained you inadvertantly. Please accept my apology for my remarks.
Please be assured that it was a suggestion and not a scathing attack.

Rgds

HT

[Ilavenil]

There is no doubt that man like his ancester ape, was a herbivorous, eating mostly fruits from trees, in the begining. When forests were replaced by savana grass land, he still ate few fruits and mostly tubers from the ground. As days passed by, he was a scavenger, eating the leftover corpses. He didn't know his strength then. When he learnt that meat keeps him stay without hunger pangs for longer periods, especially when he was migrating out of Africa by foot, it was very helpful for him. But, now people eat it purely for it's taste. Like some people prefer sweets over spicy food, some like fish and others like chicken. I basically consider vegetable to be bland, with no or subtle taste that you are not as picky as choosing a meat. But, still, you would know the difference between eating grass and egg plant.

[hehehewalrus]

Srini Sir, i was just about to tell you Trivediji didnt mean what his statements sounded like but he himself has clarified :D Take it easy.

I am not that much convinced by the non vegetarian argument. Here are the reasons:

The digestive juices in the human body are less concentrated compared to carnivores.
The amount of acidic content in saliva of humans(pH value) is far less compared to that of carnivores. Just look at dogs/foxes, how frothy their saliva is.
The intestinal column of humans is very lengthy compared to flesh eating animals. Food takes longer to be digested in humans compared to animals, since it is not broken down easily.
A nonveg meal(Indian) is very greasy with lots of oil and heavy doses of masala to be put in it, to overcome the smell of dead flesh and make it pleasant to the tongue. It is disgusting to wash the grease/flesh stained utensils after cooking. Imagine all that stuff inside your delicate stomach :shock: And you have no idea what kind of unclean substances were present in the animal consumed!!!

[hehehewalrus]

I basically consider vegetable to be bland, with no or subtle taste that you are not as picky as choosing a meat. But, still, you would know the difference between eating grass and egg plant.

Nonveg is even more bland, it is consumable only because heavy amount of spices are added to overcome its natural taste and smell. The beauty of veg food is that it tastes fine and healthy even without any addition of spice.

[suressh]

:)

as far i know, there are vegetarians in mankind. but i dont see a non-vegetarians in mankind.

there may be a person - both vegetarian and non-vegetarian but not non-vegetarian alone.

some people accept only vegetarian and never accept non-veg food, and some accept the both.

to add further,

availability of non-veg is not only in the form of food nowadays. we have meat and fats as ingredints in many things. so i wonder whether we have a category called vegetarian at all.

:)

[Roshan]

ayyO suresh.. visu style-A eheyO solli... I'm breaking my head :banghead:

[Ilavenil]

I basically consider vegetable to be bland, with no or subtle taste that you are not as picky as choosing a meat. But, still, you would know the difference between eating grass and egg plant.

Nonveg is even more bland, it is consumable only because heavy amount of spices are added to overcome its natural taste and smell. The beauty of veg food is that it tastes fine and healthy even without any addition of spice.

Well, taste differs from person to person. But, here the discussion is, what was early man eating. I just said, he ate fruits to begin with then tubers were added, finally he started to eat flesh not because of the taste but because Africa was becoming a desert when Ice caps in the poles were sucking out all the moisture. So, less availability of forest with trees, so friuts and more grass lands with animals. It was just survival of the fittest.

BTW, if I were an early (wo)man, and I had pleaty of Mangoes, Bananas and Jack fruits, I wouldn't have become a non-veg :wink: But, what happened was different.

[hehehewalrus]

ok point taken

[Sudhaama]

(1) For every God- created Living-Being,... .... He has created alongside.... the Apt variety of Food too.... matching with its .... Functions and Purpose of Life on Earth .... Correct?

Amongst the Creatures if we classify as the

(a)Mighty by Wisdom and born Soft-natured and endowed with only Defensive Bodily-features
(b)Mighty by Physical-Strength with Wild Offensive Bodily-features

Man is classified as the Most Brainy-Animal... and so considered under (a) Category above.... along with Monkey, Elephant, Horse, Bull, Deer etc.

Lion is classified as the Most wild-animal with a Commanding capacity over all other Creatures... considered under (b) category along with Tiger, Jackal, Fox, Dog etc.

(2) Suiting to acquire.... its prescribed Food.... change into convenient form for eating... and further to digest it too... the Nature has provided the apt Physical Organs like... Teeth, Nails, Limbs, Saliva, Stomach as well as the well-matching Digestive-System on the whole coupled with the Assimilative innate Mechanism too which varies amongst the Creatures according to its Functions and Purpose of Existence on Earth.... Correct?

(a)All the Vegetarian Animals comprises of Monkey, Elephant,Deer, Bull, Horses, Rabbit etc.

(b)All the Non-Vegetarian Animals like Lion, Tiger, Jackal, Fox, Dog etc. form into one Group

(3) It is an interesting Point to observe... that the Horse eats Grass ... but Not Leaves.. while the Elephant eats Leaves Not the Grass... and the Monkey eats only Fruits ... Not the Grass or Leaves... even though all these are the Varieties of Vegetarian Edible-stuff containing abundant Vitamins, Minerals and such other
Nutritious Ingrediants vital for Life.... Why So?

In brief... whether classified as Grass or Leaf or Fibre... the Type of Food eaten by one Specy of Vegetarian is not acceptable to another Vegetarian creatures. One's Food is another's Poison?

(4) Similarly Non-Vegetarian Creatures too are choosy... why ? Suppose we feed them with different Food-variety... why it hates.... or lead to illness... although all are Non-Vegetarian Foods of abundantly rich Nutritious value?.... Why?

(5) Irrespective of the one of the Varieties of Food each Vegetarian or Non-Human-Creatures eat ... all those Specific Vegetarian Species ...... form into ONE Broad Group... by way of its Living-manners and Habits, as well as Inborn Physical-features too... and Similarly to the other Group too.... Is it Not?... How?.... Why?

(6) All the Born Non-Vegetarian Species eat their Non-Veg. Food without any difficulty ... as the Main Dish without any dire Supplements. Whereas Man is able to eat the Non-Veg. Food Only as the SIDE-DISH...and Not the Main-Dish... which is invariably the Vegetarian stuff. Why so?

Comparison between Vegetarian and Non-Vegetarian Animals .....

Vegetarian Animals .................................................. ... Vs ...Non-Vegetarian Animals.
(Monkey, Elephant, Deer, Bull, Horse etc.).......... (Lion, Tiger, Jackal, Dog, Cat etc.)

1. SALIVA : Alkali .................................................. ............. Acid

2. STOMACH-SECRETION : More of Alkali ................ More of Acids.

3. TEETH : Cutting and Munching Teeth more .......... Tearing and Piercing Teeth More.

4. BIRTH: Pregnancy period Longer upto 12 mhs ....... Short... Not more than 6 months.

5. CALF-BIRTH: Active from Birth - Open-Eyed ......... Inactive with Closed-Eyes for a Few-days

..... Similar to Mankind........................................... .................. Contrary to Mankind.

.... To continue.

[mellon]

1. SALIVA : Alkali .................................................. ............. Acid

2. STOMACH-SECRETION : More of Alkali ................ More of Acids.

3. TEETH : Cutting and Munching Teeth more .......... Tearing and Piercing Teeth More.

4. BIRTH: Pregnancy period Longer upto 12 mhs ....... Short... Not more than 6 months.

5. CALF-BIRTH: Active from Birth - Open-Eyed ......... Inactive with Closed-Eyes for a Few-days

..... Similar to Mankind........................................... .................. Contrary to Mankind.

.... To continue.

Have you ever checked the pH of your own "Saliva", Mr. Sudhaama????

Make sure what you are saying is correct, please?

Because u r trying to theorize something based on your data from wherever you got them. I dont know from where u got them.

If your data is wrong, then your theory will flunk pretty badly. Nobody can help you! Please be careful!:)

[Ilavenil]

If man was born vegetarian, he would not have DRAGON TEETH.
He would have only MOLARS. :roll:

Are you referring to "canine teeth"? If life which began as a single celled ameoba and has evoled to all the genous and species on present earth, I don't think it would be difficult to develop canine teeth after human beings started to eat flesh. Moreover to eat flesh, he has to be either be a hunter (it needs lots of skills and tools) or a scavenger. To begin with he didn't have these skills. He was not born as a hunter. I have also read that he ate the bone marrow (lot of fat and some blood tissues) when he was a scavenger. So, he probabily didn't need canine at that time.

[genesis]

1) I do not think there are any 100% Vegetarian people around... you may call them "mostly" vegetarian. Most of the Vegetarian of Indian origin do consume "Dairy" products.. I am not sure anybody will consider milk as vegetarian.

2) Sudhamma says vegetarians eat everything... thats also not true... I know some vegetarians who do not eat roots (any thing underground).
3) I have read somewhere that "uncooked" vegetarian food is best for human body. "uncooked" non-veg food is the worst. Some African tribes eating "uncooked" vegetable diet have highest life expectancy, and Eskimos surviving mostly on meat have shortest life expectancy.

4) Now in present times, it is more to do with choice and customs, than what suits to our body.

There is nothing "scientific" about... may be "evolutionary"??

[Cygnus]

Sudhaama, what is your basis for the various acid-alkai classification? Could you clearly post your 'postulates' in specific tabular form; I have a hard time deciphering your post :roll:

Thank you! :)

[Cygnus]

OK, I tried looking at left hand side (LHS) vs right hand side (RHS).

LHS (Veg animals) or more appropriately 'herbivores'; RHS(Non- veg animals) 'carnivores' .
Now veg animals are more like humans - is this what you are implying? If so, on behalf of all physiologists I beg to differ with your 'notion' that stomach secretions are 'more alkali'. The human gastric fluid pH is around 1.3 on a pH scale of 1 - 14 which is theorized as follows:

1-------------------------------------7----------------------------------14
Strong acid-----------------------Neutral------------------------Strong Base

Anyway, humans could be classified as 'omnivores' based on their feeding patterns since as a general population, we consume both plant-based and meat-based foods.

To answer your question #6:
In Western civilization, meat is the 'entree' or the main dish such as steak and vegetables are side dishes such as green beans, potatoes, etc. You have framed your question with the Indian subcontinent food culture as the basis, while this topic seems to encompass the entire human race, so I'm gathering quite a bit of disconnect :roll:

[Sudhaama]

//In Western civilization, meat is the 'entree' or the main dish such as steak and vegetables are side dishes such as green beans, potatoes, etc.//

Yes... You are correct...In the case of Africans it is still more different and unique.... almost the whole content is the Non-Veg. Varieties... with the least of Veg sometimes !!... Thus I am giving you more supportive points.

But you have to note Two factors ...

(1) In the case of Majority of the Non-Veg- habitual Eaters.... all around the world.... are they able to consume at ease... the Non-Veg without a part of Veg dishes... similar to known Non-Veg. Creatures like Tiger, Cat, Dog ....?

(2) Are they Not ... artificially supporting their body natural mechanism... by means of Drugging ALCOHOL... an Acid-substance to digest Non-veg..... which is Naturally abundant for Lion Tiger and the like species born for Non-Veg. ?...

Which Digestive-base is lacking in man?.... being endowed with more of Alkali secretions to digest Veg- Substances only?

// You have framed your question with the Indian subcontinent food culture as the basis, while this topic seems to encompass the entire human race, so I'm gathering quite a bit of disconnect Rolling Eyes//

Not necessary for Rolling-eyes... my dear Friend.... Indeed the Topic's concern is the whole of Mankind. ... Not Indian alone...If you keenly observe.... the trend... you can see... I am building up data after data to arrive at the Final-Conclusion.... which You all can make easily...at the End of this Topic.

In the mean time... I am taking one and all of you friends with me Hand-in-Hand... whether Pro or Anti on the Discussion-Table.

[Cygnus]

Sudhaama,

Let me clarify that I said that the human 'gastric fluid' is acidic; gastric only refers to stomach here. Human intestinal fluid is alkaline ranging from a pH of 6 to 8 through the small and large intestines. You had stated that the stomach secretions are alkaline which is not true.

I don't understand why this should be a surprise that humans are 'omnivores', in contrast with the 'carnivorous' animals. We grew out of our 'hunter-gatherer' stage and started cultivating our own foods- grains, cereals, pulses, fruits and vegetables. Apart from that, we kept our taste for meat by raising poultry for meat and eggs, cattle for meat and milk, etc.

Meanwhile, all the 'non-veg' animals you mentioned are primarily predatory in nature. They hunt their food and devour them as such. Cats and dogs you mentioned have been domesticated and fed fancy 'chows' by the humans. So they have grown accustomed to cooked and processed food. So they no longer are 'strictly' carnivorous, they eat 'vegetarian' foods too. For eg., domesticated cats in India, are fed 'curd rice' or 'yogurt rice' and they have no problems with that. In fact, a couple of cats raised in our household were such connoisseurs of the 'curd rice' that they would not eat their meal if the curd is a bit sourer than usual!!!

But I agree that in the wild, these animals adapt to the environments such that they can survive on the hunted prey as the sole means of nutrition.

So, it seems to me to be very clear that circumstances dictate food habits and in the case of humans, since our ancestors have both hunted and cultivated their food, we retain both meat and plant-based food as our sources of nutrition. :)

[Ilavenil]

Hi Mr. Sudama,

I actually didn't understand your posts. If you can clearly state what you are saying and why, we could either agree or disagree with you.

--Thanks.

[Sudhaama]

very interesting article:

http://in.rediff.com/news/2006/mar/14msg1.htm

8-)

I'm for Vegetarianism.......but I guess its a personal choice!!

[Chappani]

Dear Sudhama,

I don't understand where this topic and hence the concultion will lead to, as long as people relish whatever they eat be it Chinese, Pygmies Or the Eskimos there is no probs. Also that since Human being is able to digest both the veg and the non-veg food very well he is designed for both of these foods.

[Sudhaama]

Dear Sudhama,

I don't understand where this topic and hence the concultion will lead to, as long as people relish whatever they eat be it Chinese, Pygmies Or the Eskimos there is no probs. Also that since Human being is able to digest both the veg and the non-veg food very well he is designed for both of these foods.

What does the contemporary Mankind relish, prefer by oneself is not the Question here.... nor this Thread-Topic for discussion.... but..

... as per Heading : Mankind BORN-VEGETARIAN Scientifically?

So to say.... By nature, there are Two broad classifications on the Groups of Creatures by birth... as Vegetarians and Non-Vegetarians

For example... Dog, Cat, Lion,Tiger, Eagle,Crow etc are NON-VEGETARIANS by birth

... while the Elephant, Horse,Cow, Sheep,Monkey,Parrot, Sparrow etc. are VEGETARIANS by birth.

Amongst these two Groups, we can find their characterics and Physical-Organs for eating and digesting... within the relevant Group are BROADLY UNIFORM.

To quote a fw amongst many.... all the Vegetarian Species are born EYES-OPEN... ACTIVE RIGHT FROM BIRTH...TEETH SUITED TO VEG. Edibles prominently.... Saliva is Alkali... etc..

...whereas it is contrary in the other case : Non-Vegetarians

Mankind matches to the Vegetarian-Characterestrics SCIENTIFICALLY...as above...

...as claimed by the INTERNATIONAL VEGETARIAN SOCIETY.

What does our Friends here have got to say...PRO OR ANTI?.. Why? and How?

[Alan]

Whereas... amongst the Vegetarians ... there are no Sub-Classifications... All vegetarians do not avoid any category of Fruits, or such Edibles... but may only have preferences....and Not by aversion like the other Category.... Why? How? ...




No, I don't think that's true , I know a vegetarian who has an aversion for watermelon, papaya, Snake Gourd, Bitter Gourd & Gherkins!

Most ppl even vegetarians hate Bitter Gourd......!!!!.

[Alan]

But yes, I totally agree that Humans are meant to be Vegetarians although when I see certain ppl's canines, I begin to doubt that!

[Lambretta]

Most ppl even vegetarians hate Bitter Gourd......!!!!.
Such as urs truly here! :D

[Alan]

I like fried Bitter Gourd Rings put in yoghurt- yummy side dish!

[Braandan]

Until we are weaned from breast milk, each one of us is a non-vegetarian. (Funny, most so called vegetarians of India who drink cow's milk think milk is vegetarian).

[Alan]

Ppl who don't use any kind of animal products like milk or eggs is called VEGAN
Milk users- Lacto vegetarians
Egg users- Eggatarians/ovotarians
Vegetarians who use both egg & milk- Lacto Ovotarians
This is what I read somewhere.

[r_o_j_a]

consider this question

men have a higher level of intelligence than an animal. therefore men can able to differentiate what they prefer to eat.

there is also moral dillemmas surrounding this topic
.. men know what is right/wrong for them..

[Sudhaama]

.
Quote : ALBERT EINSTEINE - Scientist

"Nothing will benefit human health and increase the chances for survival of life on Earth...

... as much as the evolution to a VEGETARIAN DIET."

[skanthan]

Between vegitarian and non vegitarian, I believe that it is much healthier to be a vvegitarian.

[nemesis786]

My opinions:

* This theory as someone discussed " Canine teeth are there to bite the meat so we r all potential nonveg" i just a joke! Does that mean people having strong and long nails are meant to fight like a tiger or people who are obese meant to shout like elephants? :huh:

* As far as i know we are not born for any specific diet , abrahamic religions advocate creationism in garden of eden where fruits and nuts were the main sources of foods all pure ! Evolutionary theory suggest we evolved , on which basis, our diet has also evolved especially after agricultural revolution!


I am an omnivore and currently eating only vegetarian for the past 6 months after which my health has improved a lot more! But still i miss my meat , i dont mind sacrificing it as vegetarianism suits my health which i found only recently!


So it all depends on your taste and especially health! If non-veg provides u health eat it,. or if just veg would suffice eat it why compliant about it :P

[Nichiro]

If humans were born vegetarians, they should not have 2 pairs of CANINE TEETH.
Humans are vegetarians by choice.

Nichiro

[Sudhaama]

.

If humans were born vegetarians, they should not have 2 pairs of CANINE TEETH.
Humans are vegetarians by choice.
Nichiro

Canine Teeth are direly needed for eating some of the Fruits like Mangoes as also for peeling off...

...which Nature has provided to survive under even the critical circumstances.

Just Two pairs of Canine Teeth cannot justify the Vegetarian identity different from the other Group.

If that can be the Scientific factor...why the Great Scientist Dr Albert Einstein was a strict Vegetariaan...

... strongly recommending and advocating it for Mankind? (Vide my last posting..above)
.

[dsath]

.
If that can be the Scientific factor...why the Great Scientist Dr Albert Einstein was a strict Vegetariaan...

Einstein being a vegetarian does not lend scientific credibility to the topic in discussion. There are lots of scientists and mathematicians who are not vegetarians. One of an infamous personality who advocated and followed vegetarianism was Hitler. Now does that allow vegetarianism to be linked with racism - Obliviously no

Environment also plays a major part in shaping the diet of a species.

I saw a species of veggie monkeys becoming non veggies sometime back in the BBC natural world series. Some vegetarian Monkeys were displaced from their natural habitation and ended up in a marsh land. They lost their usual source of food and so they resorted to hunting birds that live in the marshes. This was a surprise because that species of monkey is a known vegetarian and their counterparts in other parts of the world were vegetarians. But still they were happy to live off the birds and some even perfected their hunting techniques.

Not only science but also the environment shapes up the diet. This is an interesting article
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article1759971.ece

[Shakthiprabha.]

If humans were born vegetarians, they should not have 2 pairs of CANINE TEETH.
Humans are vegetarians by choice.

Nichiro

Interesting!!

[tekton]

What I ve been told by one biology scientist is: Humans are omnyvoreous. 2/3 vegetarian and 1/3 carnovorus. That is deducted according to humans digestive tract. teaths, intestines, bowel etc....

[Meera-ssg]

good thread.

Though dont u think, its not so pleasant to intrude in the privacy or other's eating habits?
Whether a person is a veggie or otherwise is his sole choice and nobody can have a say or comment about it.
why do vegetarians eat root vegetables which amounts to killing plants please?

[devapriya]

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/email/news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6180753.stm

High IQ link to being vegetarian

Vegetarianism has been linked to better heart health
Intelligent children are more likely to become vegetarians later in life, a study says.
A Southampton University team found those who were vegetarian by 30 had recorded five IQ points more on average at the age of 10.

Researchers said it could explain why people with higher IQ were healthier as a vegetarian diet was linked to lower heart disease and obesity rates.

The study of 8,179 was reported in the British Medical Journal.

Twenty years after the IQ tests were carried out in 1970, 366 of the participants said they were vegetarian - although more than 100 reported eating either fish or chicken.

Men who were vegetarian had an IQ score of 106, compared with 101 for non-vegetarians; while female vegetarians averaged 104, compared with 99 for non-vegetarians.

We've always known that vegetarianism is an intelligent, compassionate choice benefiting animals, people and the environment

Liz O'Neill, of The Vegetarian Society

There was no difference in IQ score between strict vegetarians and those who said they were vegetarian but who reported eating fish or chicken.

Researchers said the findings were partly related to better education and higher occupational social class, but it remained statistically significant after adjusting for these factors.

Vegetarians were more likely to be female, to be of higher occupational social class and to have higher academic or vocational qualifications than non-vegetarians.

However, these differences were not reflected in their annual income, which was similar to that of non-vegetarians.

Lead researcher Catharine Gale said: "The finding that children with greater intelligence are more likely to report being vegetarian as adults, together with the evidence on the potential benefits of a vegetarian diet on heart health, may help to explain why higher IQ in childhood or adolescence is linked with a reduced risk of coronary heart disease in adult life."

Intelligence

However, she added the link may be merely an example of many other lifestyle preferences that might be expected to vary with intelligence, such as choice of newspaper, but which may or may not have implications for health.

Liz O'Neill, of the Vegetarian Society, said: "We've always known that vegetarianism is an intelligent, compassionate choice benefiting animals, people and the environment.

"Now we've got the scientific evidence to prove it. Maybe that explains why many meat-reducers are keen to call themselves vegetarians when even they must know that vegetarians don't eat chicken, turkey or fish."

But Dr Frankie Phillips, of the British Dietetic Association, said: "It is like the chicken and the egg. Do people become vegetarian because they have a very high IQ or is it just that they tend to be more aware of health issues?"

[Rohit]

High IQ & Good health links to being vegetarian?
But Dr Frankie Phillips, of the British Dietetic Association, said: "It is like the chicken and the egg. Do people become vegetarian because they have a very high IQ or is it just that they tend to be more aware of health issues?"
Correlation is used for describing the observed relationship between occurrences of two events. Also correlation may have both a polarity (+/-) as well as a degree (zero, low, medium, strong, very strong etc.)

Causation describes universal relationships between two events; whereby an effect follows a preceding cause i.e. x is said have caused y if and only if y occurred whenever x occurred; and y did not occur if x did not occur.

Though, a correlation between two observed events can be causally connected, but every correlation between two events does not and cannot necessarily imply a causal connection between the two events, as it is quite possible for the two events to occur incidentally and/or independently, without any causal connection between them, or the two events may occur due entirely to a third or a very remote and unknown cause(s).

Here, the three pairs of observed events are:1. High IQ and good health
2. High IQ and vegetarianism
3. Good health and vegetarianismA correlation between being intelligent and being physically healthy can be attributed to a causal connection between intelligence and good physical health, but good physical health does not and cannot necessarily imply intelligence.

A correlation between being intelligent and being vegetarian can also be attributed to a causal connection between intelligence and having good dietary habits, but vegetarianism does not and cannot necessarily imply intelligence.

Similarly, a correlation between being healthy and being vegetarian can also be attributed to a causal connection between a well-balanced vegetarian diet and good health, but vegetarianism may or may not imply good health.

Of course, for better health, a well-balanced diet is essential. For getting into and then maintaining a well-balanced dietary habit, one must be either naturally/environmentally habituated for eating healthy foods, but need not necessarily be aware of the nutrition value of the food being consumed; or one must be aware of the nutrition value, availability and affordability of well-balanced healthy foods and obtain them for regular/habitual consumption.

In the former case, one may or may not be having a high IQ despite being in habit of eating healthy diet, while in the latter case, person's IQ is causally responsible for his/her choice for a well-balanced, healthier diet.

For example, herbivorous animals are naturally/environmentally vegetarian, while animals like lions, tigers, leopards, cheetahs, hyenas, crocodiles, sharks etc are carnivorous.

Question 1: Are the herbivorous animals healthier and more intelligent than the carnivorous animals?

Question 2: Does a good physical health [as observed in herbivorous animals], causally connected to a well-balanced vegetarian diet, necessarily imply high intelligence?In nutshell:

* A person can be non-vegetarian, healthy and intelligent.
* A person can be non-vegetarian, healthy, but unintelligent.
* A person can be non-vegetarian, unhealthy and unintelligent.
* A person can be non-vegetarian, unhealthy, but intelligent.
* A person can be vegetarian, healthy and intelligent.
* A person can be vegetarian, healthy, but unintelligent.
* A person can be vegetarian, unhealthy and unintelligent.
* A person can be vegetarian, unhealthy, but intelligent.Which shows that vegetarianism or non-vegetarianism have no causal connection to either health or intelligence, but the converse may well form a strong correlation as well as a causal link i.e. intelligence may have both a correlation as well as a causal connection to one being in the habit of having a well-balanced vegetarian or the combination of vegetarian/non-vegetarian diet and being healthy.

:D :) :thumbsup:

[thamiz]

Nice post, Rohit! :)

[Rohit]

Thanks thamiz! :thumbsup:

[Sudhaama]

.

This Topic.. based on WISDOM... has been so far discussed on...

... ONLY ONE ASPECT... Scientifically.... Well.!!

Further we can continue in FOUR other aspects too...

..e.g. Logically.. Morally.. Historically.. Culturally(Based on Literature) as well.!!
.

[Roshan]

Superb post Rohit :thumbsup: :clap:

[Roshan]

.

This Topic.. based on WISDOM... has been so far discussed on...

... ONLY ONE ASPECT... Scientifically.... Well.!!

Further we can continue in FOUR other aspects too...

..e.g. Logically.. Morally.. Historically.. Culturally(Based on Literature) as well.!!
.

As long as my understanding goes, this topic has been discussed for ages in this hub based on many aspects (logical, moral, historical, cultural blah blah included). Both parties had/have their own logical, moral, historical and cultural justifications and have expressed it well from their own points of view. IMO, this topic and the related discussions are an infinite and futile process and will exist until the world exist. To me this is something like MGR Vs Sivaji, Kamal Vs Rajini, Ajith Vs Vijay, IR Vs ARR etc etc :lol:

Let us agree to disagree and try to respect each others' views and move on. That would be the most 'Healthy, Intelligent and Wise' thing to do.

[Rohit]

Thanks Roshan. :thumbsup:

[Badri]

.

This Topic.. based on WISDOM... has been so far discussed on...

... ONLY ONE ASPECT... Scientifically.... Well.!!

Further we can continue in FOUR other aspects too...

..e.g. Logically.. Morally.. Historically.. Culturally(Based on Literature) as well.!!
.

I am vegetarian...okay, I will succumb to the cliche and say Pure Vegetarian. I do not even eat eggs or cheese containing rennet.

However I am not so sure about all this mankind born to eat vegetarian food. Sudhaama has said let us dicuss this culturally, based on literature. Very well.

I want to lay before everyone some portions from Valimiki's Ramayana.

The instances of Rama, Sita and Lakshmana eating deer are too numerous to even list them down. Sita promises Ganga pots of meat and liquour (sura) if they returned safely back from exile.

People may argue that they were Kshatriyas and therefore were allowed to eat meat. Then consider this next story which also occurs in Valmiki Ramayana.

While going to meet the Sage Agastya, Rama narrates the story of 2 demons Illvala and Vatapi to Sita and Lakshmana. In that story, he recounts how Vatapi would assume the form of a ram (male sheep, that is) and Illvala would cook him and serve him to the Brahmin guests at Shraddha ceremonies. That's right, brahmins eating at a shraddha or devasam! When all the guests had eaten their fill of Vatapi, Illvala would call out to him, and he would come out, tearing the stomachs of the guests, thus killing them. These two had killed many a brahmana by this method. When they tried the same trick with Agastya, the sage digested the poor chap and thus vanquished him.

Let the story be.

It is thus clear that even the "brahmins" would eat meat, and that too no less an occasion as the shraddha when even today, households observe extraordinary degree of acharam or orthodoxy!

I don't know about the other literature, the Ramayana definitely doesn't seem to indicate any vegetarianism anywhere.

I would like to hear people's thoughts on this.

[Nichiro]

I endorse whatever Badri has said.

[dev]

Badri, tht's a very interesting info...:) Enakku idhai patthi ellam edhuvum theriyaadhu... I'm almost vegetarian now... I do eat meat once in a while when I feel like having it... I don't have any strong views if mankind is born vegetarian or not... But I do pity those poor creatures which we mankind kill for our food... but at the same time I feel plants, trees are also living things... we kill them, chop them & eat them too... so... I don't take any side on this topic... :|

[Badri]

Same here, Dev.

Here are some more points, in case they havent been made already. If they have been, then apologies for repeating them.

Biologically, our body is made to eat meat. For instance, we don't have any enzymes to digest cellulose, which is the primary structural component of plants. Animals lack it too, but herbivores compensate for it by having symbiotic bacteria to digest it for them; we lack even that and cellulose is simply indigestible for humans!

There are other indications too - most herbivores have eyes to the side of the head, which helps them have a wider range of vision ot avoid predators, while predators have eyes in the front which gives them stereoscopic vision and provide depth required to gauge distances.

Our canines, the length and structure of our intestines also show that while not strictly carnivorous, we are probably more suited to be omnivores. Our closest cousin in the wild is the chimpanzee, which is by and large "vegetarian" although quite well and capable of hunting and eating flesh.

As I said, although I am vegetarian and there are many arguments for being vegetarian, all of which I fully endorse, I cannot stand such nonsensical and scientifically, culturally incorrect statements that mankind is born vegetarian.

Being vegetarian is purely choice, just as wearing clothes is. And while there are damn good reason for both, we are not born wearing clothes!

[dev]

Being vegetarian is purely choice, just as wearing clothes is. And while there are damn good reason for both, we are not born wearing clothes!

:D :D :D

Enakku neenga sonna points ellam pudhusu... thanks a lot for the info...:)

[Shakthiprabha.]

hmmm....interesting point badri :)

[Roshan]

Being vegetarian is purely choice, just as wearing clothes is. And while there are damn good reason for both, we are not born wearing clothes!

:lol: :thumbsup:

Badri,

Thanks for the informative post. Quite useful indeed :notworthy:

[sudha india]

Hi Badri

Very nice post quoting valmiki.
Though we know the stories mentioned in your post, looking in the angle of vegetarianism is NEW.
Now-a-days being vegetarian is absolutely the person's choice.

INTERESTING.

[Badri]

Dev, Roshan, Sudha,

Welcome.

Sudha, not just now-a-days, it has always been a choice

[crazy]

nice post, badri'na :)

[Rohit]

Rat Eaters

The politics of food in rural India. Despite the caste system being illegal in India, in many rural areas it is still rife.

Stefan goes to India's most lawless state to meet the "rat eaters". I always think that programmes about extremes are momentarily titillating but ultimately disappointing.

The one strange food that I went actively searching for was rat.

The Dalits are the lowest rung of Hindu society.

Although caste discrimination is now illegal in India, in reality it's rife outside the cities and blights the lives of countless millions of people.

The Musahars catch rats from the rice fields and in return for eradicating the rodents, the landowners allow them to take the rats for eating We went to one of the poorest and most corrupt areas of India - Bihar - where the rural Dalits are locked in a system of poverty and disadvantage.

We went to find one of the lowest sub-sections of the Dalits, the Musahars, roughly translated as "rat eaters".

We visited a village called Paraiya, which was desperately poor.

After 10 minutes of so, two tiny rats the size of mice were captured and their necks swiftly broken The Musahars catch rats from the rice fields and in return for eradicating the rodents, the landowners allow them to take the rats for eating.

It's a gruesome perk but with little other protein available, the rats are a great treat.

We'd been in Paraiya for about an hour, learning about the rice harvest, when someone ran over to tell us that a couple of rats had been spotted in the fields.

We arrived just as two men had pinned the rats in their holes, and were beginning to dig them out.

After 10 minutes of so, two tiny rats the size of mice were captured and their necks swiftly broken.

Time to dine. Over a tiny fire of old rice stalks and twigs, they burned the fur off the rats, then tugged open their stomach cavities.

After eviscerating them, the rats were roasted over the fire until they looked charred.

I rolled the rat in my hand and bit into the leg. They offered the rat to me as an honoured guest.

I pondered it for a moment - was this going to make me ill? Rats don't seem like the most hygienic animals but these little fellas had been carefully prepared and then thoroughly cooked over flames, so they should be OK.

So I rolled the rat in my hand and bit into the leg.

But roasted rat tastes very much like roasted chicken.

I handed the rat back to my hosts and they demolished the rest of it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/cooking_in_the_danger_zone/6551389.stm

[Rohit]

The South Asian countries of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, and Nepal account for about a quarter of the world's population and contribute the highest proportion of cardiovascular diseases compared with any other region globally.

The researchers found that the average age for first heart attack was lower in South Asian countries (53.0 years) than in other countries (58.8 years). The prevalence of protective risk factors (leisure time physical activity, regular alcohol intake, and daily intake of fruits and vegetables) were markedly lower in South Asian study participants compared with those from other countries.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/01/070116205535.htm

[Sudhaama]

[tscii:2c46f7aa48].
Balanced Mind & UN-EMOTIONAL Approach.. by Food.?



.

This Topic.. based on WISDOM... has been so far discussed on...

... ONLY ONE ASPECT... Scientifically.... Well.!!

Further we can continue in FOUR other aspects too...

..e.g. Logically.. Morally.. Historically.. Culturally(Based on Literature) as well.!!
.

I am vegetarian...okay, I will succumb to the cliche and say Pure Vegetarian. I do not even eat eggs or cheese containing rennet.

However I am not so sure about all this mankind born to eat vegetarian food. Sudhaama has said let us discuss this culturally, based on literature. Very well.

I want to lay before everyone some portions from Valimiki's Ramayana.

(1) The instances of Rama, Sita and Lakshmana eating deer are too numerous to even list them down. Sita promises Ganga pots of meat and liquour (sura) if they returned safely back from exile.

People may argue that they were Kshatriyas and therefore were allowed to eat meat.

....

I don't know about the other literature, the Ramayana definitely doesn't seem to indicate any vegetarianism anywhere.

I would like to hear people's thoughts on this.

The Moola-text of Valmiki Ramayana itself has been under dispute ever since Budhism and Jainism took up the domination over the Vedic Religion, so called Hinduism.

In fact as per History until Swami Sankaracharya took up to revive the Hindu Religion, it became almost extinct in North India, except some pockets here and there. But some Hindu Kings like Gupthas had patronised Hinduism and kept it alive within their Kingdom.

It is reported by some Hindu Research Scholars…

…that during the initial period of spreading Jainism and Budhism which vehemently advocates for VEGETARIANISM…

…the erstwhile Hindu Pundits who got converted to Budhism or Jainism, following their Kings…

… took up a perverted approach …just to please their Bowddha king…

…inserted new Versions as well as Concoctions… within the sacred original Hindu texts especially Ramayana…

…which was the most prominent and widely prevalent amongst the Hindu mass… as an EMULATIVE authenticity…

…exemplified by God personally… to show the posterity of Mankind on the Code of Human-Life.

And those Ex Hindu Pundits… preferred to vociferously attack the very root of Vedic Religion that it was not at all a Religion worthy to be followed…

…since it is just Bestial-culture… of Animal-doctrines… because VEGETARIANISM the basic tenet of Budhism has been ignored in Hinduism.

Whereas according to Budhism, the Vegetarian foods only are Sacred and the only fiiterst …

…for Mankind, the only SPIRITUAL BIRTH created by Nature.

So as to justify their RENEWED STAND… they have surreptitiously corrected the Moola-texts of Ramayana and such other Basic Hindu Religious documents.

Taking it as granted what all I say here is wrong and that no such corrections have ever taken place…

...and that what we have now is the authentic version of Valmiki…

.. if we have an insight deeply into the whole text… we can find several self-contradictions within the same text of Ramayana…

…as well as NON-CORROBORATIONS with the other Hindu Sacred Texts and Doctrines.

Can it be possible in a God's personal Narration?.. a Gospel.?

Vedas, Upanishads, Geetha and the 18 Puranas are the Well-coinciding Hindu documents…

..with NO SELF-CONTRADICTIONS anywhere.. but only more descriptions and elaborations for one and the same concept and sense presented anywhere in any or more of them.

For example, Geetha classifies Food into THREE CATEGORIES… Saathwika, Rajasika and Thaamasic…

Saathwika food caters to the Maximum need of Wisdom for any Creature…

…as also the Mind-culture without SUSCEPTIBILITY for Emotional approach…

…Nor Rash decisions, necessitating subsequent repeantance.

…plus a Basic feed for the Body to conserve the Soul-might..

... by constant enlightenment of Spiritual powers.. the rare might of Humanity.

All the Hindu scriptures categorically assert that the Mankind the ONLY BIRTH …with close proximity to innate SPIRITUAL POWERS… hidden within…

..and Mind-culture is the next Emphasis… all the Religions insist on… so as to ensure a Meaningful Life of purpose…

…WORTHY AS THE SUPREME BIRTH…the Mankind.

To ensure such an unparallel high Human-Calibre… it is quite imperative to be a Saathwika… a person of Calm-temperament… of BALANCED MIND constantly…

..as stipulated by Vedic doctrines... including Ramayana.

So Saathwik foods… so called VEGETARIAN ONLY ARE THE FITTEST Food for Mankind…

…if we intend to resolve our problems UNEMOTIONALLY…

...ensuring Mutual-Respect, Team-work, Social-Unity and UNIVERSAL LOVE of all….

…which alone can culminate in our Individual Peace of Mind, True Happiness, Success, Great Achievements and Advancement too…

...EASILY.
.
.. To Continue.
.[/tscii:2c46f7aa48]

[crajkumar_be]

http://krishashok.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/i-eat-another-kind-of-cell/

[kannannn]

http://krishashok.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/i-eat-another-kind-of-cell/
Some of the facts aren't really true, but the blogger has done a great job in presenting different perspectives.

Just a clarification to Sudhamma's post: Buddhism did not advocate vegetarianism during its initial period. Experts themselves are still divided on what Buddha's last meal was (it could very well have been pork..)

As for me, the dilemma continues..

[Lambretta]

Vegetarians were more likely to be female, to be of higher occupational social class and to have higher academic or vocational qualifications than non-vegetarians.
:shock: Strangely I dont quite possess these qualities despite being a v'tarian! :huh: :? :oops:


However, these differences were not reflected in their annual income, which was similar to that of non-vegetarians.
I guess my present annual income would be similar to anyone who's broke, V'tarian or NV'tarian! :roll:

[suba]

:)

allaarukkum vanakkam....

enakennamo ithu saiva uNavukkaarar allaarum kadavulnum asaiva uNavukkaarar allarum arakkargalnum solla varra maathiri irukku.

erumai maadum kazuthaiyum saivamthaan.

aanaa singam - asaivam.

'singam single-athaan varum'nu perumaiyaathaan allaarum solraanga.

aanaa -

'erumaimaadu maathiri nikkaathada kazuthai'nu thittathaan seiyaraanga....

ennatha naan solla .... :oops:

:)

[Sudhaama]

.

... Just a clarification to Sudhamma's post: Buddhism did not advocate vegetarianism during its initial period. Experts themselves are still divided on what Buddha's last meal was (it could very well have been pork..)

As for me, the dilemma continues..

Dear Kannan,

I am sure what I posted is correct...AHIMSA PARAMO DHARMA .. is the Rudimentary Doctrine of both Jainism and Budhism...

..right from the dates of their origin.

Dhammapada the Budhists Veda... categorically and clearly asserts so... without even the least exception for any of its followers. ...

..unlike Hinduism.. which permits certain specific segments of the Society to be Non-Vegetarians...

...matching with their demands caused by occupation.


:)

allaarukkum vanakkam....

enakennamo ithu saiva uNavukkaarar allaarum kadavulnum asaiva uNavukkaarar allarum arakkargalnum solla varra maathiri irukku.

erumai maadum kazuthaiyum saivamthaan.

aanaa singam - asaivam.

'singam single-athaan varum'nu perumaiyaathaan allaarum solraanga.

aanaa -

'erumaimaadu maathiri nikkaathada kazuthai'nu thittathaan seiyaraanga....

ennatha naan solla .... :oops:

:)

Dear Friend,

Neenga solra maadhiri yaarum edhuvum moasama sollidalai. Andha kodumaiyaana arthaththilae neenga eduththukkalaamaa?

Nobody has either said or meant so...

...a crude comment on one section of Society's likings and preferences.

I am surprised and sorry to find your unfounded surmise of such a negative impression on a wise presentation of facts on the other side.

You are welcome to oppose or defend any point of discussion here...

...whatever you may feel correct in your opinion.
.

[Nichiro]

Dear Sudhaama Avl,

If a new born is fed on Mother's milk, he/she is not born vegetarian.

Nichiro

[Sudhaama]

.
Characters classify MAN as VEGETARIAN by BIRTH.!!!


Dear Sudhaama Avl,

If a new born is fed on Mother's milk, he/she is not born vegetarian.

Nichiro

Oh.! My Dear Friend Mr Nichiro,

Gladly Welcome. Yes. I wish many many learned elite Gentlemen like you must join with us and...

... mutually exchange our Thoughts, Views and Knowledge ...

...in this unique Inernational Forum of Wisdom.

Now coming to your point... I have already answered this Question raised here earlier. However now I clarify further.

Not only Human-being every Mammal is bred by Mother's milk...

Then can we say they are drinking their Mother's Blood and indirectly slow-killing their mothers?

And can we say that all the Human-beings are CANNIBALS?

This Question is Logical. If we approach the matter Logically, we can ENDLESSLY continue arguing...

...but with No SOLUTION... only Confusion and Dilemma.. Not Final Answer... commonly acceptable.

Logics can help to analytically bring out all the hidden truth and factors lying behind...

..but cannot help us to reach the Destination nor Final Answer.

Even in the Court of Law... where the whole Court proceedings are conducted ENTIRELY BASED ON LOGICS...

...the Final Verdict and Judgement is rendered NOT BY LOGICAL APPROACH... THARKAM

..but by MORAL APPROACH only... i.e. Dhaarmeekam...

...i.e. the Hearty approach by Wisdom coupled with Moral-sense.

While most of the Laws are framed based on Logical-approach...

...some Laws are framed by Moral-approach too.!

For example... the Benefit of Doubt... Circumstancial Evidence... Humane-rights etc.

So also in this matter... we will be able to really understand the Nature's law behind.. only by Moral-approach...

...by means of Humane-Wisdom spirit...

...without giving Over-importance to SUBSIDIARY FACTORS like...

...Blindly following the Majority liking, Preferencial Tastes and Emotions.

The International VEGETARIAN CONGRESS has conducted deep Research on the matter..

... analysing on one and all the factors and aspects involved and has reached the Final Verdict... UNDISPUTABLE...

...since MORALLY prevailed by Wisdom... as below.

Here is the Gyst of their detailed Report.

(1) God / Nature has created several categories and Species of Living beings... like Worms, Insects, Water-lives, Birds, Animals etc.

...and also created alongside the apt food as NEEDED for each Living-being...

...suiting to its Functions, Meaningful existence and purposeful Advancement by Mundane Life.

By closely observing their Foods in relation to their Way and Order of Life...

..we are able to broadly classify all of them into Two Main Groups... as Vegetarian and Non-Vegetarian.

(2) The Non-Vegetarian groups are rudimentarily AGGRESSIVE and CUNNING by birth... offensive and of Dominating approach...

..the Degree of which may vary amongst the various creatures.

While Vegetarian Creatures are PEACE-LOVERS Non-aggressive... preferring Peaceful Co-existence... accomodative with other co-habitants... DEFENSIVE and NON-DOMINATIVE approach.

(3) Amongst them... the Maximum Self-disciplined and Wise living beings are Vegetarians...

One strange exception is the LION.

As a matter of honour and Pride... the Kings used to be simulated to the Lion...

..mainly because of its high Wisdom coupled with highest Self-discipline amongst all the Non-Humans...

..and ability for Command and Leadership... of the whole forest.

But it cannot be EMULATIVE for Mankind in other respects... mainly on Two factors.

(a) It greatly differs in its Life Principle with Mankind... rather PRINCIPLE-LESS in the matter of PEACEFUL Co-Existence.

(b) There is No Unity within the same Specy..Lion... So every Lion is solely SELF-DEPENDANT... as also Defenceless.

So in case of Life-Challenges either due to Illness, Sickness, Accidents, Natural Calamities, they STRUGGLE for existence much more than the Vegetarian-creatures of Contrary Principle of Life.

(b) It is mainly depending on its Physical might for existence. Consequently when the Lions get old or seriously injured or physically handicapped...

...they helplessly and pitiably die out of Starvation.

Lions popuation is dwindling in some Nations mainly because of such reality.

Indeed there are some Non-Vegetarian Birds Species.. which are famous for their Unity and Peaceful Co-Existence...

..but in several other respects... they are of Low-calibre RADICALLY UNCOMPARABLE with the Great Creature Human-beings.

Thus it can be easily comparable that... amongst these Two Groups of Overall Creations...

...God and Nature has stipulated BY BIRTH that...

Mankind is the wisest Creature... comparatively weak by inborn physical powers..

...but mainly DEPENDING ON THE WISDOM... more than the Physical Might meakly bestowed by birth.

However with the help of innate Wisdom only... Mankind is able to supersede, dominate, lead and advance over all other Living-beings..

... of even great physical might... wild-nature.. and also poisonous.

Mankind is TOTALLY in line with the VEGETARIAN Characters amongst all the Wordly Living-beings...

So Mankind is the BORN VEGETARIAN... as standardised by Law of Creation.

More Points to follow.
.

[Nichiro]

..we are able to broadly classify all of them into Two Main Groups... as Vegetarian and Non-Vegetarian.

(2) The Non-Vegetarian groups are rudimentarily AGGRESSIVE and CUNNING by birth... offensive and of Dominating approach...

wrote Sri Sudhaama avl.

Dear Sudhaama Avl,

Your tharkam falls flat without scientific and logical proof.
There are wiser, better and kind human beings in every race in this world which does not follow vegetarianism. There are most evil, cunning and Devilish people born in vegetarian population also.

Morally there cannot be a proof to say that Man Kind is borm vegetarians.

You are at liberty to go on and on but it is not going to prove anything except one's stubborn convictions.

Nichiro

By the way, Humans have survived, grown and become masters race not only because of their wisdome but also because humans are most cunning creation of God.
So by your own arguemnt , man is born non vegetarian. because he is THE MOST CUNNING ANIMAL.

[Badri]

(2) The Non-Vegetarian groups are rudimentarily AGGRESSIVE and CUNNING by birth... offensive and of Dominating approach...

That is downright offensive and highly insulting. Sudhaama, request you to edit your posting.

There are many hubbers, I am sure, who are non-vegetarians. Are you calling all of them offensive?

[rajraj]

.

(2) The Non-Vegetarian groups are rudimentarily AGGRESSIVE and CUNNING by birth... offensive and of Dominating approach...
.

Lot of people in Tamilnadu seem to differ ! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Sudhaama]

.

Dear M/s Badri, Nichiro and Rajraj,

I am surprised SHOCKED and sorry to note...

... that you have totally mistaken my statement...

...by your superficial study of my posting...

...QUITE CONTRARY to the Positive...NON-OFFENSIVE Sense meant by my quoting of Research findings.... ON ANIMALS AND BIRDS...



.

(2) The Non-Vegetarian groups are rudimentarily AGGRESSIVE and CUNNING by birth... offensive and of Dominating approach...
.

Lot of people in Tamilnadu seem to differ ! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Pease go through my posting carefully. What I have presented here is the Findings on Research studies...

// on ANIMALS BIRDS etc ONLY.//....

So what is meant here is... NOT ON THE HUMAN-BEINGS...

The International Vegetarian Congress quotes the similarity of Life-code by the Vegetarian species..

...with that of Mankind...

...and Not Vice versa.

In brief... the Life principles in general adopted by the Human-Society on the whole.. irrespective of Individuals...

.. is only the Criteria here.

So to say... what is laid down as Government Law... and Social doctrines for Global Mankind in general.

Our point of consideration is not about the people of any one country or Region...

... nor VEGETARIAN HUMANS.... OR NON-VEBETARIAN HUMANS...

...but the Mankind on the whole, as One Classification and Specy of creation... named as Humans.

Under such comparative study the Research findings assert that the general Basic principles of Mankind as below... for example...

(1) Peaceful co-existence with all the people of other Nations too... internationally.

(2) Faith that the Mankind should and can advance by Wisdom alone.

(3) Unity is the greatest might.

Such a Life-code of practice adhered by Mankind....

...tallies well with the Life-code adopted by the Non-Human Vegetarian Species.

That is only the Point here.
.

[Sudhaama]

.
. Further CLARIFICATION

We are comparing the Species of creations en masse.

So to say...

(1) Mankind is Basically NON-AGGRESSIVE... Because he is not endowed by birth.. the Aggressive features in his body...

...such as Pouncing capacity to capture the prey... Ferocious Teeth.. Firm and Sharp Nails... etc.

That is why... if anybody is found to be aggressive to attack any other person by means of weapons...

..the Society and Court of Justice... used to ask "Are you a Beast? Why you attacked him?"

(2) Mankind is DEFENSIVE by birth. Because he cannot be offensive like the Beasts...

..due to lack of AGGRESSIVE PHYSICAL MIGHT...

...and since his major strength is Wisdom which takes care of him

...without the necessity for OFFENSIVE or AGGRESSIVE approach.

(3) Mankind is able to live as One Society... by means of WISDOM, Mutual-Love, Soul uplift, Spiritual Emancipation etc. unlike other creatures... SUB-HUMANS.

Such an approach... as a matter of Principle laid down as the Code of Practice for Human-beings...

..by means of Government Laws, Social-stipulations, Cultural principles and Religious doctrines...

...corroborate well... with the Code of Practice and Self-Discipline

...adopted by the Vegetarian Species...

... amongst the Non-Human beings... Animals and Birds.
.

[Punnaimaran]

Dear Sudhaama
I see no scientific explanations in your postings other than quoting findings from a group of people whose main aim was to PROVE that Vegetarianism is better than Non-vegetarianism. Donot call your analysis SCIENTIFIC.

[Roshan]

(2) The Non-Vegetarian groups are rudimentarily AGGRESSIVE and CUNNING by birth... offensive and of Dominating approach...

That is downright offensive and highly insulting. Sudhaama, request you to edit your posting.

There are many hubbers, I am sure, who are non-vegetarians. Are you calling all of them offensive?

Badri,

I feel Sudhamma is going over board and is hell bent and desperate in proving that the Vegetarians are better beings than the Non-Vegs. Let us wait and see how desperate and lower he can get.

[crajkumar_be]

Badri,
I feel Sudhamma is going over board and is hell bent and desperate in proving that the Vegetarians are better beings than the Non-Vegs. Let us wait and see how desperate and lower he can get.
:exactly:
Long pointless posts akin to moral science classes and sermons and not an iota of scientific or logical basis to the arguments....

P.S: Vegetarian species are peace-loving and non-offensive, huh? :rotfl:
Then pray tell what do we say about Adolf Hitler and elephants in musk? :lol2:

The argument that human beings were born vegetarian or are supposed to be vegetarian and blindly espousing pages of moral and religious crap not only does NOT do anything to advance that argument but also is an insult to the understanding of the very design and concept of nature. One may chose to be a vegetarian for health/religious reasons or out of sheer personal preference but to take on a moral high ground over non-vegetarians smacks of something else. Try preaching vegetarianism to an eskimo or better still, try being a vegetarian in the arctic/antarctic and then let's see...

[Billgates]

I really like the way Mr. Sudhama had written his notes & its perfectly presented with logical explanations.

Dear Mr. Sudhama, pls continue to enlighten us on Vegetarianism. I like your responses in particular in a very balanced manner.

[Billgates]

Dear Mr. Sudhama sir

However, I have few points to mention :

Vaman avtar of Shri Vishnu supposed to be a Brahman by birth and brought up in a vegetarian environment was very aggressive and equally cunning in his mission. ( to subdue King Mahabali )

Shri Parasurama , another incarnation of Lord Vishu again was a Brahman by birth and a Vegetarian, was also equally aggressive to the core and a very dominating personality.

How both happened ?! In such a case, how strong is your theory ? Pls clarify

[Nichiro]

Any living thing MUST consume another living thing in order to survive. Just as animals, plants also have life . Unless you kill a plant and consume it, it is impossible to survive.

If it amounts to kill anything and consuming to survive, it is sinful act.
Why it is sinful to kill animals and not sinful to kill plants?

I have always maintained that
"Mankind is vegetarian by choice"

Any amount of arguemnts will not take us anywhere on this subject.
If Sri Sudhaama had said that it is better to be vegetarians than non vegetarians, I would have agreed to certain extent.(I am a vegetarian).
But his line of arguement is baseless.

[crajkumar_be]

Well said Nichiro...

[crajkumar_be]

Well said Nichiro...

[pavalamani pragasam]

Nichiro is right. Vegetarianism is a very sensitive issue, purely a personal preference. In our families it is invariably a mixture of both. Nobody is at the other's throat. I became a vegetarian after a certain age( still I continue to take eggs occassionally) & wanted to keep my family members vegetarians. It was an almost autocratic attempt since except my eldest son the other three members were leaning on the other side. While I came down a bit grudgingly after all the children got married & kids arrived the situation has gone beyond my control- now my son & I alone are a pitiable minority!!!! I continue to preach & banter to the majority with no effect!!! But there are no ill feelings! Diwali didn't go without chicken or mutton. This is the beauty of freedom of choice & non-interference with personal preferences. Live & let live!

[Sudhaama]

.
My Dear Friends,

Thanks and Thanks... Very many Thanks a lot...

..for all your active participation... making the discussion Hot and Lively...

So far I patiently waited and eagerly anticipated for ANYONE GENTLEMEN (including Ladies)...

...to defend on the Vegetarian side.

But I am much DISAPPOINTED to see... that I have been LEFT ALONE...

...as a SOLITARY DEFENDER to face a huge mass of learned Gentlemen...

..who are so Super-sensitive even to hear anything different from their Hitherto inference on their Preferencial choice...

...favourite classification of Food.. the Non-Vegetarian dishes.

However I will stand alone... and continue to face your Volly of attacks on the Truth I put forth here.

Well. One point You all have to remember... from the the Way of presentation of my Poll-Questions above.

...where I have given the LAST PRIORITY for Vegetarian Food Classification.

I am just open-minded to hear and know on both siddes... UNEMOTIONALLY...

..whereas I am surprised to find most of you getting Emotional...

..when you hear a different sort of Views and Facts.

You all are welcome to Oppose, Question and Differ with me...

...as you feel proper in your INDIVIDUAL OPINION and KNOWLEDGE.

Please continue.

I have a lot to say the Truth. And I am sure it will be a delicious Feast of Knowledge for one and all of you...

...which is the Healthy Intention and Worthy purpose of my initiating this Thread.

Let us handle the matter... part by part of the aspects.

I have not so far raised the point of Life or No Life in Vegetations... at par with Non-Veg Food Ingredients...

..Nor the RELIGIOUS ASPECT... Sin or No Sin... etc.

What is our present aspect of discusson is...

Comparison of Two sorts of Characters, Life-codes and Self-discipline amongst the Non-Human Living-beings... Vegetarian Species and Non-Vegetarian Species...

Out of those Two... which sort of Characters and Life-code...in general...

..tallies and Corroborates... with that of Life-code and Self-Discipline stipulated by Mankind for themselves...

...through Government Laws... Moral Code of Practice... Social-Laws... Religious Stipulations etc...

...on the whole by Mankind for their Meaningful Life.?.

My stand... based on the Vegetarian Congress established conclusion is...

...Such Life-codes adopted Overall in general by Mankind...

(irrespective of any section Vegetarian or Non-Vegetarian amongst the Humanity)

...MATCHES AND COINCIDES well with the Life-codes and Self-discipline adopted by the Vegetarian Species amongst the Non-Human beings.
.

[thilak4life]

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[*Urmila*]

Wanted to post in this thread, but hesitated. Didn't want to come across as a bigot. But after seeing PP's post this morning, I must plunge in.

My personal experience is this. I have been an occasional eater of meat, excluding the ones most Hindus avoid. It was my desire to become a vegetarian, which is damn hard to do in the west. I gradually cut off certain meats, then fish and made more efforts to sort my lentils. I am now only the occasional eater of eggs.

I am sure there are many with similar desires, but their surroundings do not allow them. People just adapt to their environment like the Eskimos and people in the Middle East where most veggies are imported.

I felt bad about myself for sometime not being able to be a full vegetarian as quickly as I would like, but then I learnt that when the fruit is ripe, it will fall on its own. It happened when I fully understood the benefits and my slow cut backs and of course it was a personal decision.

Having gone through the struggle of becoming a vegetarian with no intentions of turning back, I will never look down upon one who eats meat.

[*Urmila*]

-Duplicate deleted-

by Urmila

[pavalamani pragasam]

"I will never look down upon one who eats meat." :clap:

[*Urmila*]

Thank you PP Maam.

I was going to add: They say in cold countries people need to eat meat to keep the bodies warm. Don't know how true that is. But humans can and most are selective in what meats they eat.

[P_R]

Dear Mr.Sudhaama, the argument, as you have stated here, is not about the preferences over vegetarianism and non-vegetarianism but on whether mankind is born vegetarian. i.e. mankind is biologically suited better for vegetarianism. (whether that is an argument in itself in favour of vegetarianims is a different question altogether)

A couple of months back Badri had written a clear post, which is page 4. Therein he had rejected the argument about Man being biologically suited to vegetarianism.

You had replied to his earlier post with quotes from vAlmiki RamAyaNa by challenging the veracity of parts of the original text. However the subsequent post, where he had made the arguments based on biology remained unanswered. That IMO was the most pertinent post to the topic thus far.

Unless there is an answer to that post, the debate seems, atleast to me, over.

[pavalamani pragasam]

Before agriculture was known, before civilisation took shape how did the aborigines survive/subsist? Not on fruits & roots alone. Hunting for food has been man's first & best occupation in the beginning of history. Even after centuries of civilised living, in extreme situations eating human flesh has been the only solution for survival!!! What do the 'canine' teeth in our mouth imply?

[Roshan]

Dear Mr.Sudhaama, the argument, as you have stated here, is not about the preferences over vegetarianism and non-vegetarianism but on whether mankind is born vegetarian. i.e. mankind is biologically suited better for vegetarianism. (whether that is an argument in itself in favour of vegetarianims is a different question altogether)

A couple of months back Badri had written a clear post, which is page 4. Therein he had rejected the argument about Man being biologically suited to vegetarianism.

You had replied to his earlier post with quotes from vAlmiki RamAyaNa by challenging the veracity of parts of the original text. However the subsequent post, where he had made the arguments based on biology remained unanswered. That IMO was the most pertinent post to the topic thus far.

Unless there is an answer to that post, the debate seems, atleast to me, over.

Well said Prabhu :clap:

[equanimus]

(1) Mankind is Basically NON-AGGRESSIVE... Because he is not endowed by birth.. the Aggressive features in his body...

...such as Pouncing capacity to capture the prey... Ferocious Teeth.. Firm and Sharp Nails... etc.

(2) Mankind is DEFENSIVE by birth. Because he cannot be offensive like the Beasts...

..due to lack of AGGRESSIVE PHYSICAL MIGHT...

...and since his major strength is Wisdom which takes care of him

...without the necessity for OFFENSIVE or AGGRESSIVE approach.
Apparently, these are the costs that man paid in gradual installments for starting cooking animals. And, he didn't mind it at all. It was all the more fun to continue to have good meals without having to sweat it out with them beasts. Not to forget that it sits in well with the claim that "his major strength is [his] Wisdom." Darwin would have approved.

[*Urmila*]

"...extreme situations eating human flesh has been the only solution for survival".

Absolutely! It happened with oriental (Chinese or Koreans) mothers during the war years. They were forced to "echange" their babies with other mothers for killing and eating. It was tough, but the issue was survival when it came to the crunch.

[equanimus]

Also, let's not forget that these points -- tendency to be non-aggressive and suchlike -- do not hold water when it comes to eating cute, little animals that man sees on his ways. The ones he will be able to consume with no difficulty whatsoever, exactly like how he consumes plants. The rather simple instructions would read (again, exactly like how it'd read in case of plants) thus: "Pick the thing with your right hand (left hand please, if you're left-handed and still dumb enough to use the right hand whenever you're told to do so) and drop it in your mouth. If you feel it doesn't work as yet, try cooking it."

P.S. Dinosaurs deserve more empathy than what we tend to show to them, after all.

[Lambretta]

"...extreme situations eating human flesh has been the only solution for survival".

Absolutely! It happened with oriental (Chinese or Koreans) mothers during the war years. They were forced to "echange" their babies with other mothers for killing and eating. It was tough, but the issue was survival when it came to the crunch.
Geeezz!! :shock: This is news to me!!! Ugghh.......I cant believe it though......mothers eating babies!! :x :(
I understand the survival compulsion but still.....! :(

[Sudhaama]

.
. Pasiththaalum Puli Pul thinnaadhu.

. (Tiger will never eat Grass... even under extreme Hunger)


Thank you PP Maam.

I was going to add: They say in cold countries people need to eat meat to keep the bodies warm. Don't know how true that is. But humans can and most are selective in what meats they eat.

We should not LOOK DOWN upon others preferences on Food...

...whatever it be... whether Sea-Foods.. or Turtles & Insects...

..or just Vegetables and Fruits alone.

None of us here mean so.

And if any Vegetarian has changed to Non-Vegetarian...

..due to any cause and justification on his/her own... well, there too we are not interested to know why and how.?

It is their private affair, we do not interfere with.

But let not anybody argue and take excuse or dubious shelter...

...that the Veg Food habits have to be totally changed to the diametrically other side... Non-Veg....

..simply because one is living in cold countries and it is IMPOSSIBLE TO MANAGE the Cold weather by eating Veg only.

No Not correct to say so.

There are several Vegetarians in the worst cold countries like Norway, Sweden, Germany, Austria...

...some Very Strict and so Staunch... that they not only avoid Eggs

...but also the MILK AND SUCH OTHER DAIRY products even.

Some of them are my close Friends, either from India or the Europian Nationals of totally Cacasian origin.

How do they manage to COUNTER the external weather...

...so as to meet the demand of Internal bodily heat.?

By taking PEPPER as part of their daily Food invariably.

Further another ingredient for the same purpose is GARLIC... Occasionally.

Alcohol in some form as Wine, Brandy, Wisky etc... became a part of their Life of Europians...

...only because of Cold-weather... to develop internal bodily-heat to counter the inclement Snow-fall sub-zero temperature.

When this point was raised before the Vegetarian Congress.. it was discussed at length Pro and Anti...

...and was finally declared that STERILE EGG may be consumed on the same basis of Dairy Milk... considered as Vegetarian.

One interesting News.

When all the Religions... do not interfere much on Food...except rendering some advise on the effects of Veg and Non-Veg...

...They all invariably discourage consuming Alcohol for INTOXICATION.

So to mean... without Intoxication... it is nothing wrong to consume Alcohol within limits according to ones taste...

..suiting to the individual constitution and medical advice.

The most interesting News is... there were / are several prominent Europeans too... strict Vegetarians...

For example... George Bernard Shaw... Dr Alfred Einsteine Scientist..

... apart from the present day Indians...

...including Muslims... e.g. Dr. Abdul Kalam, Ex. President of India

So let not anybody claim or argue that... ..under certain unusual circumstances...

...it is IMPOSSIBLE TO EXIST as Vegetarian.!!

May be difficult.. in some Cases and Circumstances.. But NOT IMPOSSIBLE.!!

If there is the Will, there is a Way... as we like.!!
.

[*Urmila*]

Lamby,

Some Chinese students themselves told me that some years back. You can also do a bit of research on it. I tried to see what I could find on the net, but no luck.

Sudhaama,

I also know Europians who do not eat any meat or dairy products. The reason they give is:- their beliefs in animal rights. Some others give reasons such as - animals are just like humans. Yet some of these very people have less value for a human life when it comes to wars.

Why do you think the muslims pray before killing an animal? It is because of the fear in the animal due to the sudden blow. For Hindus it is a Haram act to put fear in the animal or bird and for muslims, the meat becomes Hallal when the prayer is followed by a blow. At least there is recognition for the fear the animal or bird is placed.

[*Urmila*]

Correction: At least there is recognition for the fear the animal or bird is placed "under".

Man born to be vegetarian? Depends on one's logic and understanding of food chain and maintenance of the status quo. This is why it varies from place to place and becomes a personal thing.

The use of pepper to generate body heat. Pepper is not grown or accessible in all cold parts of the world, at least not in the stone ages.

[*Urmila*]

I meant the eco-system, not status quo.

Too much multi-tasking going on, on my end.

[Sudhaama]

.

Correction: At least there is recognition for the fear the animal or bird is placed "under".

Man born to be vegetarian? Depends on one's logic and understanding of food chain and maintenance of the status quo. This is why it varies from place to place and becomes a personal thing.

The use of pepper to generate body heat. Pepper is not grown or accessible in all cold parts of the world, at least not in the stone ages.

Dear Madam Ms. Urmila,

Why are you in a hurry to oppose my stand... when I have just now started to justify.

But if you have any Counter-points to oppose it... right from the beginning...

...well, you are welcome to put forth your reasoning now itself. Glad.

I have not said Pepper is available all over the World as local produce... as also at places of high demand without import.

When the entire Life-requirements... other than Fuel... can be imported to Middle-east countries...

..is it an arduous task to procure Pepper to Europe.? It is available plenty all over Cold-countries.

And another loose talk... about Stone age.!

Did I say anything about Stone-age pertaining to Peppper? What do you intend to mean... I do not follow.

During Stone age how the Human-being could manage without Pepper.? Is it your Question.?

In the Stone-age Mankind had BUSHY HAIRS all over the body... similar to Gurillas... at the Initial Stage.

So did not need much Weather-protection at par with Animals.

They were initially Non-Vegetarians... mainly Fish-Eaters.. and gradually transformed into Vegetarians...

...following the Vegetarian Species like Monkeys, Gurillas and Elephants.

Then they learnt Farming.. which further got developed into Varieties of Veg. diet.
.

[Nichiro]

[tscii:c236420388]Dear Sudhaama Avl.

Monkeys are not pure vegetarians.Please read the following info

"Monkeys are omnivorous, which means that they eat fruit, vegetables and meat. In the wild, they eat things such as roots, vegetables, fruit, herbs, insects, and even some small animals. They are sometimes considered “pests” because they eat farmers’ crops. Primate Center monkeys eat monkey chow, trail mix, peanuts, apples and other fruits.
Unqote.

More info at

http://onprc.ohsu.edu/education/dspStudentsItem.cfm?doc_id=183
During stone age, not all Adi Manavs had bushy hair like gorillas.They needed weather protection and hence they spent rainy season and winters in caves. They covered themselves with animal skins which was reclaimed after eating the animas.

Respected Sudhaama sir, you make me laugh now.[/tscii:c236420388]

[Badri]

If being non-vegetarian makes a person cunning, offensive etc, I wonder if being vegetarian makes one highly stubborn!!

[Sudhaama]

.

If being non-vegetarian makes a person cunning, offensive etc, I wonder if being vegetarian makes one highly stubborn!!

Anybody's Personal Qualities, Propensities, Character etc... are formed at various Stages... by different Means and Causes.

Some of them are INNATE i.e inborn by birth... some are developed on ones own... by his/her trend of Wisdom application...

...and some qualities forcibly thrust upon by his Life-experiences...

...plus some of the Qualities are shaped by means of Food also.

We cannot generalise all the Non-Vegetarians as of Animal Qualities or Wild...

...nor Vice versa on Vegetarians.

Even amongst Dogs... the Non-Vegetarian Specy by birth... some are wild and aggressive.. while some others are not.

Similarly the Elephant.. the Vegetarian Specy by birth... some are Wild too... while some others are not.

So is the case with any Living-being... including Mankind.

But Food also has an important role in shaping the Qualities...

...as asserted by Science and GEETHA.

But the degree of impact due to Food varies between the individuals.
.

[Sudhaama]

[tscii:592eba3043]Dear Sudhaama Avl.

.... During stone age, not all Adi Manavs had bushy hair like gorillas.They needed weather protection and hence they spent rainy season and winters in caves. They covered themselves with animal skins which was reclaimed after eating the animas.

Respected Sudhaama sir, you make me laugh now.[/tscii:592eba3043]

Dear Nichiro,

Glad.. I could make you LAUGH too.

Please observe my words. I have mentioned carefully.. as INITIAL STAGES... I reiterate my statement.

What you say... is also correct and undisputable...

...but it was a later development.
.

[*Urmila*]

Food also has an important role in shaping the Qualities...

Agree 100%, but doesn't answer your question whether mankind is born vegetarian.

Based on my understanding so far, I am inclined to think that mankind is born both vegetarian and non-vegetarian. Just the same mankind is born with both the ability to be good and wicked. With wisdom, they find the balance or seek to elevate themselves beyond. Of course this balance and elevation varies from person to person for other reasons you yourself mentioned. Being a vegetarian itself gives you that sense of elevation and cleanliness, but is it all in the mind or is there some truth to it?

I know some Christians during length stay away from meat to find that balance. And some of us do not eat meat all year round.

I will leave you all to continue with the debate and only watch. But, I find it to be an interesting topic.

[Sudhaama]

.
Food also contributes MAINLY.. in shaping Qualities.!!


If being non-vegetarian makes a person cunning, offensive etc, I wonder if being vegetarian makes one highly stubborn!!

The International Vegetarian Congress conducted deep research on Humans as well as on Animals...

... and discovered the Truth...

...that the Food is one of the Main factors in shaping the Qualities and Character of any Living-being.

From the experiences of my several Friends and Relatives... I too have closely observed this fact.

For example we three Neighbourers shared amongst ourselves Three Pups... of Single delivery.

Being a Dog-lover I brought up my Pup devoting keen attention, love and personal care...

...feeding it Non-Veg Foods... as prescribed by the Vet..

...although I am a Staunch Vegetarian.

While my two Neighborers also brought up their Pups with equal care and attention... as much as myself...

...but as Strict Vegetarian.

To our Wonder we found... my Dog was Ferocious, Aggressive... conspicuously EMOTIONAL... and SUPER-SENSITIVE...

..while the other Two brothers of the Dog.. were Soft-natured and Defensive in approach.

We were told by all the experienced people... as well as the Well-experienced Trainer as also the Vet Doctor...

..that Food alone has made such a difference.

Even amongst the Non-Vegetarians... the different effect of Sea Foods, Chinese Foods... and Common Meat...

...the discerning factors can be observed they say.

Such a Formulae is applicable to any Living-being... I am told...

...including Mankind... but to a varying degree... as already posted.
.

[Badri]

I wish you would post proof, Sudhaama, not your home-grown experiments!

Anyway, I suppose you are truly convinced that your view is right. No problem with that. The trouble is the equal urge to want to convince the rest of the world about the truth of your statement!

Carry on! I am sure there is a purpose to everything under Heaven!

[pavalamani pragasam]

I beg to differ, sudhaama! My kids are very fond of dogs. But I was averse to taking the responsibility of a pet. But after a burglary attempt in our former house we bought a pup & it grew fast showered with love from my children. With my leaning towards vegetarianism I gave mainly, almost only, vegetarian food to our dog. But it was a very ferocious dog, a terror in the neighbourhood. My humble opinion is ferocity or docility is in the genes be it humans or beasts. In humans environment, education & exposures contribute to shaping the tendencies/temperament. Food is responsible for our health, but not behaviour!!!

[crajkumar_be]

I wish you would post proof, Sudhaama, not your home-grown experiments!

[rajraj]

Carry on! I am sure there is a purpose to everything under Heaven!


Badri: Don't you get the hidden agenda here as with many other threads by this author ? :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Sudhaama]

I wish you would post proof, Sudhaama, not your home-grown experiments!

Anyway, I suppose you are truly convinced that your view is right. No problem with that. The trouble is the equal urge to want to convince the rest of the world about the truth of your statement!

Carry on! I am sure there is a purpose to everything under Heaven!

Even the Great Scholars used to differ in certain matters at one or the other stage.

There is a popular proverb... by George Bernard Shaw...

"No Two Time-Watches agree similar to Two Medical Doctors".

When it is so... after all who am I.?

So I expect difference of opinion... on this Complicated Subject too..

..and I welcome various Thoughts and Knowledge.. from my Friends.

I am prepared to add up as also change my conclusions OPEN-MINDEDLY...

..if any of my Friends put forth better points to superesede mine.

But whatever I post here is the well-founded Knowledge gathered from reliable sources...

... such as various Vegetarian Associations of different countries... including the International Vegetarian Congress...

...high personages including Mahatma Gandhi, Swami Vivekananda, Dr Radha-krishnan (Ex President of India)...

..apart from authoritative Books specifically on the subject read...

..plus anxious discussions I had with several Dieticians and Senior Medical Doctors... since the past about 60 years.

So I am sure on what I say..

...although I am unable to prove the Veracity by Quoting the Authenticities.
.

[Billgates]

Why even the Moderators seem to target Mr. Sudhama ! I wish he gives his thoughts / opinion on Vegetarianism. Why this sarcastic comments by many ? If you like it take it. If not, just leave it. WHy this prejudice towards Mr. Sudhama. Well this seems like animosity carried forward from some another thread !
Mr. Sudhama, I fully support your intention that its better to follow vegetarianism. However, one can follow this where it is possible . Zones like Sweden, Norway, its virtually impossible to practice Vegetarianism.

[Sudhaama]

Why even the Moderators seem to target Mr. Sudhama ! I wish he gives his thoughts / opinion on Vegetarianism. Why this sarcastic comments by many ? If you like it take it. If not, just leave it. WHy this prejudice towards Mr. Sudhama. Well this seems like animosity carried forward from some another thread !

Mr. Sudhama, I fully support your intention that its better to follow vegetarianism. However, one can follow this where it is possible . Zones like Sweden, Norway, its virtually impossible to practice Vegetarianism.

Glad to hear One SOLE VOICE...

...of Open-minded Affectionate Tone.!!

Very Many Thanks Dear Mr Bill gates.

Previously until 20 years back... I too was thinking that in Cold regions... it is IMPOSSIBLE to exist by living upon Veg Foods.

But I changed my such a Wrong Notion... after observing some of my Friends who are Staunch Vegetarians...

..managing well... in such remote cold regions and Nations too... despite the Veg scarcity.

For example one of my Friends is in Oslo, Norway... He used to cook his Veg Food at home... until he was Bachelor...

..and now continuing with his wife and children there as Veg only.. ensuring sound health and cheer...

..He is a Tee-totaller.

After Hare Krishna movement spread its Branches far and wide.. all over the World...

...Vegetarianism also is fastly spreading... even amongst the local Nationals of Cold countries.

And they have disproved the myth that...

... Non-Veg food alone is the best suited to Cold Climates.
.

[Roshan]

Carry on! I am sure there is a purpose to everything under Heaven!


Badri: Don't you get the hidden agenda here as with many other threads by this author ? :lol: :lol: :lol:

You are SPOT ON rajraj !! :thumbsup:

And who calls who cunning ! :huh:

[pavalamani pragasam]

It is alright to uphold vegetarianism, even to declare it the best dietary discipline. But it is another thing to push down the theory in everybody's throat. A wild goose chase. If there are 100 reasons to support vegetarianism there are 101 reasons to follow nonvegetarianism. As a kid I used to listen to my father in awe as he described the predicament of the world & its people being choked by uncontrolled/unhunted/uneaten/unchecked growth of fish, fowl & animals. There is no use assuming a 'holier than thou' attitude in a public forum. Criticism & ridicule are self-invited!!!

[Billgates]

Roshan / Rajraj / Badri & others

Even if Mr. Sudhama has some hidden agenda ( as you all presume so ), IMO, what he intends is something good . He is not asking you to commit a crime . After all its about following vegetarianism which is the most ideal way of modern day living . We are in a civilized society today and not like wild animals whose only source of filling their stomach is by killing other living beings.

Mr. Sudhama Sir, requesting you to continue .

Mr. Rajraj, pls avoid using LOL LOL icon against Mr. Sudhama which is grossly insulting on a very senior / pro hubber like him. Just look at his contributions . I have been reading all his old posts and they are very informative and with substance.

[Madh@va]

poRaamai enbathu mudiyAthavargaLin parAttu !

Wow!! :notworthy:

[Roshan]

Roshan / Rajraj / Badri & others

Even if Mr. Sudhama has some hidden agenda ( as you all presume so ), IMO, what he intends is something good . He is not asking you to commit a crime . After all its about following vegetarianism which is the most ideal way of modern day living . We are in a civilized society today and not like wild animals whose only source of filling their stomach is by killing other living beings.

But it's not relevant to the topic. Let him first prove his claims in line with the topic and then try to talk about others. And people here have proven him wrong from all points of view with valid arguments.


Mr. Sudhama Sir, requesting you to continue .

Unga pazhaiya ID-ku poruthamA vElai paakureenga billgates ;)

[Sanguine Sridhar]

Roshan / Rajraj / Badri & others

Even if Mr. Sudhama has some hidden agenda ( as you all presume so ), IMO, what he intends is something good . He is not asking you to commit a crime . After all its about following vegetarianism which is the most ideal way of modern day living . We are in a civilized society today and not like wild animals whose only source of filling their stomach is by killing other living beings.


ok, let me step in

So you mean to say that Plants are non-living thing?! :huh:

[crajkumar_be]

. We are in a civilized society today and not like wild animals whose only source of filling their stomach is by killing other living beings.


ok, let me step in

So you mean to say that Plants are non-living thing?! :huh:
:rotfl:

[Roshan]

poRaamai enbathu mudiyAthavargaLin parAttu !

Wow!! :notworthy:

Hi AR,

Good to see you around :)

[Sanguine Sridhar]

Why even the Moderators seem to target Mr. Sudhama ! I wish he gives his thoughts / opinion on Vegetarianism. Why this sarcastic comments by many ? If you like it take it. If not, just leave it. WHy this prejudice towards Mr. Sudhama. Well this seems like animosity carried forward from some another thread !
Mr. Sudhama, I fully support your intention that its better to follow vegetarianism. However, one can follow this where it is possible . Zones like Sweden, Norway, its virtually impossible to practice Vegetarianism.

He is saying that Non-Veg'tarians are rude,arrogant,cunning! I am a meat eater, indirectly I felt that he is talking about me. Can I say that all veg are 'soranai kettavar's' ?

[dev]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[equanimus]

Hi Sudhaama/Billgates,
I asked this before, but again, what at all is the perceivable difference between eating plants and eating little, pluck-'em-and-swallow animals (lizards, insects etc.)? Except that plants are usually tied at their bottom end while those little reptiles and insects aren't. Coming to think of it, in this respect, the latter breed is at least given a fair chance to survive even as man attempts to consume them.

[podalangai]

Zones like Sweden, Norway, its virtually impossible to practice Vegetarianism.

Since Norway & Sweden import most of their food, it isn't that difficult to be vegetarian in those countries. The problem is that almost none of their traditional dishes are vegetarian, so they would have to give up a good bit of their traditions and culture in order to become vegetarian.

[suba]

:)

allaarukkum vanakkam....

enakennamo ithu saiva uNavukkaarar allaarum kadavulnum asaiva uNavukkaarar allarum arakkargalnum solla varra maathiri irukku.

erumai maadum kazuthaiyum saivamthaan.

aanaa singam - asaivam.

'singam single-athaan varum'nu perumaiyaathaan allaarum solraanga.

aanaa -

'erumaimaadu maathiri nikkaathada kazuthai'nu thittathaan seiyaraanga....

ennatha naan solla .... :oops:

:)

:)

i am forced to repeat my post.

:)

[kannannn]

For those who think vegetarians are superior - in spite of its abundant foliage, the Amazon rain forest is extremely deceptive to the unsuspecting plant eater. If you thought you could survive there by eating plants, think again. Monkeys, boars and other plant eaters regularly visit muddy basins found all over the rain forests for an after meal of mud. The reason? The tree leaves are extremely poisonous and the only way to survive the poison is to eat the mud. The trees there have evolved to become poisonous in order to survive the onslaught of vegetarian occupants of the Amazon.

The moral? Every being wants to live and reproduce - be it plants or animals. Pollination is a way of spreading the population of plants. So is the falling of fruits. That is the basis of evolution. Plucking the plants to stop pollination or picking the fruits to stop the growth of new trees is as cruel as killing an animal.

Truth is truth, no matter how big our ego is to accept it!!

[Sudhaama]

.
. Pained to note... I am Mistaken... MISUNDERSTOOD. !



Why even the Moderators seem to target Mr. Sudhama ! I wish he gives his thoughts / opinion on Vegetarianism. Why this sarcastic comments by many ? If you like it take it. If not, just leave it. WHy this prejudice towards Mr. Sudhama. Well this seems like animosity carried forward from some another thread !
Mr. Sudhama, I fully support your intention that its better to follow vegetarianism. However, one can follow this where it is possible . Zones like Sweden, Norway, its virtually impossible to practice Vegetarianism.

He is saying that Non-Veg'tarians are rude,arrogant,cunning! I am a meat eater, indirectly I felt that he is talking about me. Can I say that all veg are 'soranai kettavar's' ?

All My Dear Friends,

I feel much pained to note... my postings and Stand are thoroughly MISTAKEN...

..and taken in a wrong and crude direction...

Never and Never I meant SO CHEAP...and DENIGRATIVE about any section of the Society...

..especially on Non-Vegetarians ... or on Non-Veg Foods...

When some of my Friends got a bit confused.. I had repeatedly clarified my true spirit and sense of stand...

..that whatever I say here.. is the Comparison amongst the Two classification of Animals...

..and Not a Comparison to the any section of the Great Mankind...

...the Supreme Creation endowed with Maximum Wisdom...

..irrespective of Non-Veg or Veg...

Right from the beginning I am reiterating that choice of Food is one persons individual taste choice by freedom and will..

..and No Food is inferior... deserving to be looked down upon by others..

...even it be the Spanish speciality Sea-Foods... or Chinese Speciality Crabs and Insects or Japanese Speciality Mamushi Snakes...or Moritians Speciality Turtles

The most important factor we all must remember is...

...that the Majority in the World are Non-Vegetarians...

...and they are quite well-off with it.

But what I am trying to invite your kind attention...is..

.. the other side...about Veg Foods... many of us have not peeped into...

...although EQUALLY AND PARALLELLY WISE-THOUGHTS....there too.!!
.

[*Urmila*]

The problem is that almost none of their traditional dishes are vegetarian, so they would have to give up a good bit of their traditions and culture in order to become vegetarian.

This is the same problem here. For someone on the run - extremely busy and stop by a food court or a buffet, all you can see is the main meat types nicely prepared staring at you. There are vegetables, but no substitute protein source other than meat to go with it as a meal. After eating you know you are not satisfied and have another half day outside before returning home. Yes you can take your own cooked food or a sandwich but that is not always possible or convenient.

[podalangai]

This is the same problem here. For someone on the run - extremely busy and stop by a food court or a buffet, all you can see is the main meat types nicely prepared staring at you. There are vegetables, but no substitute protein source other than meat to go with it as a meal. After eating you know you are not satisfied and have another half day outside before returning home. Yes you can take your own cooked food or a sandwich but that is not always possible or convenient.

Yes, absolutely. Once when we were driving across Norway, from the west coast to Oslo, the only vegetarian dish we could get on the way was a wheat & cream porridge. And being invited for dinner is a nerve-wracking process, since your hosts will very often not even understand what you mean when you say you're vegetarian ("Do you mean you only eat potato?"). It is a lot more prudent to say you'll bring your own food!

[pavalamani pragasam]

:roll: :roll: :roll:


:rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2:

[Nichiro]

I think it is time this topic was put to rest.

[Sudhaama]

.
. I feel motivated to render the due replies.. to ALL.!!


I think it is time this topic was put to rest.

The Opponents to the HEALTHY Scope of this RARE TOPIC...

... of WISDOM FEAST...

..to UNRAVEL... the HIDDEN TRUTH lying on the other side of the Screen..

..to bring out the DISCOVERED TREASURE of Human-Knowledge..

..to ENLIGHTEN Humanity...

...towards a Higher perspective of Wider awareness...

...may not be interested to know more.

The BLIND ANTOGANISTS... disinterested even to know the Realities of Life purpose...

..Only will prefer to keep away from this MEANINGFUL DISCUSSIONS.

But... for me, on seeing the ENTHUSIASM backed by volley of postings from various Friends in different aspects...

..I feel motivated to render the due replies to one and all of them...

..in a FRIENDLY MANNER...

..True to the Healthy Spirit of our Forum...

For which this Forum has to become more lively and actve.

So I will continue.
.

[app_engine]

>>..I feel motivated to render the due replies to one and all of them...<<

Yes, please post those "due replies"...silent observers like me are very interested in reading your fitting replies!

[Nichiro]

Sri Sudhaama Avl,

Please continue your quest .
I hope you would see the light at the end of the tunnel.

By the way, what was the name of your friend whose chart we discussed ?

[Sudhaama]

.

Sri Sudhaama Avl,

Please continue your quest .

I hope you would see the light at the end of the tunnel.
...........

Those who find the Tunnel dark now... will see its BRIGHT END..

...when they reach the other end... along with me.

Whereas for me... both the Tunnel as well as the other End...

...are quite BRIGHT.
.

[Nichiro]

.

Sri Sudhaama Avl,

Please continue your quest .

I hope you would see the light at the end of the tunnel.
...........

Those who find the Tunnel dark now... will see its BRIGHT END..

...when they reach the other end... along with me.

Whereas for me... both the Tunnel as well as the other End...

...are quite BRIGHT.
.

Glad to know that your tunnel as well as the end are bright. Why not let people decide for themselves if their way of living is correct or wrong?
You have made your points very clear and most others too have done (like PP Madam, Badri etc) so.
There is no point in going on and on . If you feel that what you say is truth , then you do not need to prove it.
Truth does not need justification or proving.

I will serch for my truth in my way and others will do the same.

I have absolutely no problem if you want to continue your crusade .
But I think people are well educated and wiser than what they are given credit for by elders like us.

Let them decide what is good or bad for them .

By the way why should people find BRIGHT END if they walk with you?

You mean to say you are a Messiah?

[Badri]

The BLIND ANTOGANISTS... disinterested even to know the Realities of Life purpose...

..Only will prefer to keep away from this MEANINGFUL DISCUSSIONS.

News Flash, everyone! Not only are the non-vegetarians offensive, cunning etc, they are also now BLIND ANTAGONISTS!!!!

Sudhaama, so I suppose those who do not readily agree to your words are blind antagonists? Only those who accept every word you say (and that too, with no valid proofs of any kind) are intelligent?

You know I respect you, but it is time you took notice of what you are actually posting, and how it could be perceived by everyone.

To merely say I am pained, and misunderstood is of no avail. If you say that on one hand, and then make such statements, I am afraid that has the potential to sound highly hypocritical.

It would help to think before posting, as words can have their meanings, whether you intend it or not.

[Nichiro]

VILLAGE SCHOOL MASTER


In arguing too, the person own'd his skill,
For e'en though vanquish'd he could argue still;
While words of learned length and thund'ring sound
Amazed the gazing rustics rang'd around;
And still they gaz'd and still the wonder grew,
That one small head could carry all he knew.


Part poem posted.

[Sudhaama]

[quote=Sudhaama] // The BLIND ANTOGANISTS... disinterested even to know the Realities of Life purpose...

..Only will prefer to keep away from this MEANINGFUL DISCUSSIONS.


// News Flash, everyone! Not only are the non-vegetarians offensive, cunning etc, they are also now BLIND ANTAGONISTS!!!!//

Thanks for your frank questions... and I agree with you that I should honour the feelings and sentiments of each and everyone amongst our Hubbers Globally.

So I am carefully wording my postings... without giving room for dubious meanings...

..other than what the words mean grammatically... and what I intend to mean by sense.

But by superficial reading of any cluster of words... they can mean different... on anybodt's posting.

I am surprised to note... that in spite of my repeated clarifications... you are repeating the same MISCONSTRUTION on my healthy postings.

For example... I have NEVER SAID OR MEANT as... any section of Humanity... is Offensive and Cunning... other than stating about Animals.

Yes. What I had clearly worded and meant about the Qualities of Non Veg. Specy Animals.. as reported by the International Veg. Congress.

... and Not on any section of Humans at all.

Now the present point... I mean... anybody who is eagerous to know the Truth on the other side also...

..will only welcome my continuation ofposting. Others who are not interested to increase their awareness...

..will only not interested to participate further.

Here I have not said or meant anything on any section people...

"who agree or disagree with my stand"... How it can be meant so?...

I am unable to understand how you are getting confused on my clear statement... APPLICABLE TO ANYBODY... INCLUDING ME... pertaining to any Forum.

However if any of my posting is inadvertently causing any HURTING to ANYBODY... Yes I am prepared to edit it suitably and Open-mindedly. I respect one and all my Friends here.


// Sudhaama, so I suppose those who do not readily agree to your words are blind antagonists?

Only those who accept every word you say (and that too, with no valid proofs of any kind) are intelligent? //

There is no such word to mean so... Let people accept or disagree with me..It is left to everybody's Freedom. I am repeatedly inviting my friends here to speak out... PRO OR ANTI... whatever they feel on my postings


// You know I respect you, but it is time you took notice of what you are actually posting, and how it could be perceived by everyone.//

Thank you for your personal respects... I assure you to keep up to your expectations in future too...

...because I deal with my Friends UNEMOTIONALLY AND OPTIMISTICALLY... as well as Open-mindedly...ensuring the due EMPATHY.

Still if you feel at any time...that I have failed... contrary to my intentions, you are welcome to point out.

I will CONTINUE to duly honour your words..

...since I too have the due respect for you.

.

[*Urmila*]

Going back to my comment about stone ages and diet and warmth of humans, it seems like the question as to whether mankind was born vegetarian has been answered.

http://www.creswell-crags.org.uk/virtuallytheiceage/Stone%20Age%20People/Food.htm

Sudaama suggested the use of pepper to keep the bodies warm, but they survived during those ages without the use of pepper. This was my whole point. There was no need to use pepper to warm the bodies even if they were known of and available because then mankind were mere fish and meat eaters.

[*Urmila*]

More info on the stone age people:

http://www.creswell-crags.org.uk/virtuallytheiceage/Stone%20Age%20People/index.html

[*Urmila*]

We can see that food habits amongst mankind has changed during evolution. So to answer the question whether or not mankind was born vegetarian, we would first need to determine when mankind was first created. Don't you think? How far back can we go and how accurate would that be?

[Sudhaama]

.
Urmila

. Stone-age People.. Vegetarians.?

I have already answered this Question that...

... initially the Mankind were Non-vegetarians...

..mainly living upon Fish, Eggs and Birds.

Then became Vegetarians gradually by trying with Fruits, Vegetables, Leaves, Tender-Bamboos, Sugar-canes and the like...

..following the Vegetarian Creatures like Monkeys, Elephants, Deers etc.

Then they learnt Farming... which lead to making Grains as their main Food subsequently.
.

[Sudhaama]

.
.World Famous Vegetarians.. Examples amongst many.

Albert Einstein - Germany - Advanced Scientist

Thomas Alwa Edison - USA - Advanced Scientist

Leonardo Da vinci. - Italy - Advanced Painting Artist cum Sculptor.

Pythagoras - Greece - Advanced Mathematcian - Research Scholar in Geometry.

Oliver Goldsmith - UK - Writer cum English Poet.

George Bernard Shaw - UK - Writer cum Dramatist.

Baldwin Billy - USA - Hollywood Actor

Benjamin Franklin - USA - Multi-talented Genius - Scientist cum Statesman.

Dr Kenneth Kaunda - Zambia. - Founder President of Zambia - African Sociologist.
.

[*Urmila*]

It might be good to know why they became vegetarians and in which way any of their reasons support the propositions you have set out in trying to decipher whether or not mankind is born vegetarian in an attempt to find the truth. As it stands, it tells us nothing and only leaves room for more criticism.

[Sudhaama]

It might be good to know why they became vegetarians and in which way any of their reasons support the propositions you have set out in trying to decipher whether or not mankind is born vegetarian in an attempt to find the truth. As it stands, it tells us nothing and only leaves room for more criticism.

None of us here... are either Teacher or Student...

Everyone of us have our own varying stands on this common subject for Mankind.

So whatever information you need... please search and find out...

..leading to your conclusion... to answer the Question of this Thread... if you are so interested.

Is Mankind.. BORN VEGETARIAN.??.!!

If you feel... the answer is NO.. please post so here... elaborating your thoughts and justifications.

What is there to criticise.. either Pro or Anti.?

After all this is just a DISCUSSION FORUM.

.. I am just one amongst you all...
.

[Badri]

.
Urmila



I have already answered this Question that...... initially the Mankind were Non-vegetarians.....mainly living upon Fish, Eggs and Birds.

Then became Vegetarians gradually by trying with Fruits, Vegetables, Leaves, Tender-Bamboos, Sugar-canes and the like...

..following the Vegetarian Creatures like Monkeys, Elephants, Deers etc.

Then they learnt Farming... which lead to making Grains as their main Food subsequently.
.

Ok, by your own admission, you say mankind was initially non-vegetarian, but later evolved to become vegetarian. If that is the case, then how can you claim they were born vegetarian?

Did cows, deer, elephants - all start off by being non-vegetarians, before evolving into a vegetarian (herbivorous, to be correct) species?

[*Urmila*]

Sudhaama,

With all due respect, it might be a good idea to change your question to something like:- Is vegetarianism a good or bad thing, by examining the effect it has on the lives of individuals. You might be able to gather more evidence to support answers.

With the present question, I see an anxiety to take a "subjective" position and to do so prematurely which could have been the basis for so many attacks.

I know your intentions are good, but you have made conclusions and pointed fingers while you claimed that the discussion is still going on in search of answers.

[Sanguine Sridhar]

[tscii:f32a365ce1]

The moral? Every being wants to live and reproduce - be it plants or animals. Pollination is a way of spreading the population of plants. So is the falling of fruits. That is the basis of evolution. Plucking the plants to stop pollination or picking the fruits to stop the growth of new trees is as cruel as killing an animal.

:exactly: Blood shedding is not the only way to find out that you are actually ‘killing’ a life.

In fact plants are more innocent it doesn’t have any strong self-protective mechanisms, we took this as an advantage, that’s it!



Truth is truth, no matter how big our ego is to accept it!!

Bang! :thumbsup: [/tscii:f32a365ce1]

[Sudhaama]

.

Urmila

I have already answered this Question that...... initially the Mankind were Non-vegetarians.....mainly living upon Fish, Eggs and Birds.

Then became Vegetarians gradually by trying with Fruits, Vegetables, Leaves, Tender-Bamboos, Sugar-canes and the like...

..following the Vegetarian Creatures like Monkeys, Elephants, Deers etc.

Then they learnt Farming... which lead to making Grains as their main Food subsequently.
.

Ok, by your own admission, you say mankind was initially non-vegetarian, but later evolved to become vegetarian. If that is the case, then how can you claim they were born vegetarian?

Did cows, deer, elephants - all start off by being non-vegetarians, before evolving into a vegetarian (herbivorous, to be correct) species?

God created various creatures and suiting to their Functional demands, he created the Apt foods too.

He also shaped the Bodily features for each creature... to reach, acquire, eat, digest and assimilate into the system.

In such a course... Nature has created certain Living-beings as Vegetarian Species and some others as Non-Veg Species.

For example Dog is a Non-Veg Specy. But there are cases... where the Dogs have been brought up as Vegetarian only all along.

But it cannot concluded even in that case that Dog is a BORN-VEGETARIAN.

similarly there are some Monkeys which live upon Insects and such other NV stuff. But that cannot change its Innate classification as Born-Vegetarian.

It is the Food compatibility... matching with the Activities and Bodily Features.

For example the Scorpian has been made as one of the Foods for the Lizard. So its body is immune for the Scorpian stings and Poison... while eating its prey.

Man is the most Brainy creature... God has ever created...

.. with minimum needs of Bodily functions. But maximum by Wisdom.

In such a case.. what is the broad Classification amongst the two groups?...

..Apt for Mankind?.. which means the answer...

Mankind Born V or NV.
.

[*Urmila*]

[tscii:6e7e42fd08]I am so carried away with this topic for some reason. Sorry.

One would imagine at the time of creation of man, God was closest to man and would have instructed what kinds of foods to eat and the reasons for such choices rather than leaving man to figure it out by trial and error and with uncertainty remaining.

Even in the time of Christ, his disciples were instructed to eat animals with hooves (described in a certain way that excludes pigs), fishes with scales… The only ones I can remember. There were good reasons for such choices when compare to alternatives – other animals, fishes and birds.

So my question is - if man was told what to eat and what not to from inception, why is it that through later discovery, man is in the position to make better decisions in foods choices? How should this be related back to the initial question?
[/tscii:6e7e42fd08]

[Nichiro]

Sudhaama Avl wrote,

"Mankind is the wisest Creature... comparatively weak by inborn physical powers..

...but mainly DEPENDING ON THE WISDOM... more than the Physical Might meakly bestowed by birth.

However with the help of innate Wisdom only... Mankind is able to supersede, dominate, lead and advance over all other Living-beings..

... of even great physical might... wild-nature.. and also poisonous.

Mankind is TOTALLY in line with the VEGETARIAN Characters amongst all the Wordly Living-beings...

So Mankind is the BORN VEGETARIAN... as standardised by Law of Creation.

"
Unqote

you have already proved that manking is born Vegetarians as per your scientific theory (LOL).
Why go on and on ?

[pavalamani pragasam]

Since it is quite clear he is too desperate to advocate vegetarianism, seeing his insurmountable obsession with his belief, I am making a dignified retreat.

[Sudhaama]

.

Urmila

I have already answered this Question that...... initially the Mankind were Non-vegetarians.....mainly living upon Fish, Eggs and Birds.

Then became Vegetarians gradually by trying with Fruits, Vegetables, Leaves, Tender-Bamboos, Sugar-canes and the like...

..following the Vegetarian Creatures like Monkeys, Elephants, Deers etc.

Then they learnt Farming... which lead to making Grains as their main Food subsequently.
.

Ok, by your own admission, you say mankind was initially non-vegetarian, but later evolved to become vegetarian. If that is the case, then how can you claim they were born vegetarian?

Did cows, deer, elephants - all start off by being non-vegetarians, before evolving into a vegetarian (herbivorous, to be correct) species?

God created various creatures and suiting to their Functional demands, he created the Apt foods too.

He also shaped the Bodily features for each creature... to reach, acquire, eat, digest and assimilate into the system.

In such a course... Nature has created certain Living-beings as Vegetarian Species and some others as Non-Veg Species.

For example Dog is a Non-Veg Specy. But there are cases... where the Dogs have been brought up as Vegetarian only all along.

But it cannot concluded even in that case that Dog is a BORN-VEGETARIAN.

similarly there are some Monkeys which live upon Insects and such other NV stuff. But that cannot change its Innate classification as Born-Vegetarian.

It is the Food compatibility... matching with the Activities and Bodily Features.

For example the Scorpian has been made as one of the Foods for the Lizard. So its body is immune for the Scorpian stings and Poison... while eating its prey.

Man is the most Brainy creature... God has ever created...

.. with minimum needs of Bodily functions. But maximum by Wisdom.

In such a case.. what is the broad Classification amongst the two groups?...

..Apt for Mankind?.. which means the answer...

Mankind Born V or NV..

Continuation.

How is it ascertained in such cases of change of Food habits also.. as the Specy.?

Vegetarian Congress... had conducted the Research.. by which they learnt that...

..when a different sort of Food is eaten out of Survival demand or by Forcible feed... as in the above quoted cases...

..it has been observed that even though with such alternate food the particular Animal is able to just survive...

..it becomes unable to maintain its Unique functional capacities.

For example the Horse is the BORN GRASS EATER...

..but out of Survival demand... in extreme cases... if it eats leaves however nutritious it may be...

..the Horse falls sick in course of time.

Or becomes too weak to perform its basic activity to run.

Even in the case of same classification of Vegetarian ingredients.. viz Grass and Leaves...

..when we are able to notice conspicuous difference of impact..

..how far the contrary classification of Food can affect its well-being and Normalcy ofLife can be imagined.

Biologically the Bodily features and Digestive system of the Vegetarian Species amongst the Animals...

..are directly tallying with the Features and Life-style of Mankind asserts the Vegetarian Congress.

And by Comparative analysis testing with Veg and Non-Veg Foods on the Babies have rendered a clear finding...

..that the Mankind behaves different according to the Food consumed.

A Calf fed with Donkey's milk... behaved like a Donkey when grown up. Similarly if fed with Donkey's Food too...the same result.

Man is a Subtle, Non-emotional, Soft-natured Defensive Non-Violent creature as shaped by God by birth....

..unlike the Non-Veg Animals exhibiting its Wildness and Aggressive Offensive attitude right from birth.

Food is one of the Contributing Main factors... which changes the approach, attitude, tastes and intentions...

...of Mankind too... making him far different...

... from any Brainy creature such as Monkey, Gurilla, Elephant etc.

... which degree differs from person to person.

Thus the Veg. Congress asserts that Food not only contributes as Nutrition...

.. but also towards the Qualities... CONSPICUOUSLY.

However we cannot generalise. There are rare exceptions.
.

[crajkumar_be]

Since it is quite clear he is too desperate to advocate vegetarianism, seeing his insurmountable obsession with his belief, I am making a dignified retreat.
:lol:

[Sudhaama]

Since it is quite clear he is too desperate to advocate vegetarianism, seeing his insurmountable obsession with his belief, I am making a dignified retreat.

I am not despearate. You can judge from my maximum number of replies occupying maximum amount of space of the day.

This is a TOUGH SUBJECT... of highly disputed topic... since several decades.

I am yet to clarify WITH MORE POINTS a lot.

But when I find the antagonists here.. are VERY EMOTIONAL AND SUPER-SENSITIVE...

..even to hear a Contrary View... I have to be patient to put forth.

All others are not like you Madam.

So I should not be hasty to overload with too many points at a time.. but gradually one by one.

So it must not be mistaken as my WEAKNESS TO SUBSTANTIATE.
.

[Badri]

Since it is quite clear he is too desperate to advocate vegetarianism, seeing his insurmountable obsession with his belief, I am making a dignified retreat.
:lol:

Wise decision, Mrs PP!

There was even a poll on this, right at the beginning and the results seem to indicate little support for the Born Veg theory!

What was the point of the poll, if one person chooses to impress his theory on all others, even when almost everyone disagrees?

[Billgates]

[tscii:5e771ed900]1. What are the different types of vegetarians?

There are several different variations of the vegetarian diet. Strict vegetarians, called vegans, eat no animal products at all. The staples of their diets are fruits, vegetables, legumes (beans and peas), grains, seeds, and nuts. Lacto-vegetarians eat dairy products in addition to plant foods. Lacto-ovo vegetarians include dairy products and eggs as well as plant foods in their diets.

People who eat animal flesh (meat, fish, chicken) are not considered to be vegetarians. However, as the health benefits of a vegetarian diet become more widely known, many people reduce or eliminate animal products. For example, they may eat fish and chicken but no red meat, or they may eat meat in small portions only a few times a week. These people can most accurately be described as following a semi-vegetarian diet.

2. What are the health benefits of a vegetarian diet?

Vegetarian diets are lower in saturated fats, cholesterol, and animal protein. They’re also high in folate, anti-oxidant vitamins like C and E, carotenoids, and phytochemicals. Overall, vegetarians have substantially reduced risks for obesity, heart disease, high blood pressure, diabetes mellitus, osteoporosis, and some forms of cancer - particularly lung cancer and colon cancer. Vegetarian diets that are low in saturated fats have been successfully used to reverse severe coronary artery disease. (1)

3. Is it possible to get enough protein on a vegetarian diet?

Absolutely, it’s actually difficult to become protein deficient unless you quit eating all together. Just about all unrefined foods contain significant amounts of protein. Potatoes are 11% protein, oranges 8%, beans 26%, and tofu 34%. In fact, people have been known to grow at astounding rates (doubling their body size in only six months) on a diet of only 5% protein. These people are infants and they do it during the first 6 months of life, fueled by breast milk, which contains just 5% protein. (2)

4. How much protein do I need, anyway?

The Recommended Dietary Allowance (R.D.A.) for protein is 0.8 grams a day per kilogram of bodyweight. (Divide your weight in pounds by 2.2 to get kilograms.) Athletes may require more protein, but the amount is small (1.0 to 1.5 grams per kilogram of bodyweight), an amount easily obtainable from a vegetarian diet.

Excess protein consumption can cause a variety of problems including bone mineral loss, kidney damage, and dehydration. Your body can only use so much protein, the excess is either broken down through oxidization, placing an enormous strain on the kidneys, or it is stored as body fat. Neither option is particularly desirable. (3)

5. What’s the difference between complete and incomplete proteins?

Animal protein contains all nine of the essential amino acids, so it has been referred to as a "complete" protein. The nine essential amino acids can also be found in plant proteins, however no single plant source contains all nine of them. Therefore, plant protein has been referred to as "incomplete."

It was once widely believed that vegetarians had to carefully combine plant protein sources in each meal in order to obtain all nine essential amino acids. However, scientific studies have shown that the human body can store essential amino acids and combine them as necessary. So, while combining beans and rice, or peanut butter and bread produces a complete protein, it’s not necessary to consciously do this at every meal. If you eat a varied diet and adequate calories, combining proteins is not an issue. (2)

6. Why do people become vegetarians?

There are a variety of reasons. Many people switch to a vegetarian diet for weight loss and improved health. Some are concerned about the safety of meat following recent outbreaks of salmonella and e. coli bacteria. Others feel that it is moral or spiritual issue. Some individuals deplore the suffering of animals in modern factory farms. Still others are concerned about the environment and world hunger. A few just don’t like meat. For many vegetarians it is a combination of issues.

7. How does vegetarianism impact the environment?

Throughout the world, forests are being destroyed to support the meat-eating habits of the "developed" nations. Between 1960 and 1985, nearly 40 percent of all Central American rain forests were destroyed to create pasture for beef cattle. More than four million acres of cropland are lost to erosion in the United States every year. Of this staggering topsoil loss, 85 percent is directly associated with livestock raising, i.e., over-grazing. Much of the excrement from "food" animals (which amounts to 20 times as much fecal matter as human waste) flows unfiltered into our lakes and streams. (4)

8. What does vegetarianism have to do with world hunger?

Raising animals for food is an extremely inefficient way to feed a growing human population. The U.S. livestock population consumes enough grain and soybeans to feed more than five times the entire U.S. population. One acre of pasture produces an average of 165 pounds of beef; the same acre can produce 20,000 pounds of potatoes. If Americans reduced their meat consumption by only 10 percent, it would free 12 million tons of grain annually for human consumption. That alone would be enough to adequately feed each of the 60 million people who starve to death each year. (4)

9. What do vegetarians eat? Don’t they miss their favorite foods?

Vegetarians have a variety of great food choices. Many of them are just slight variations on old favorites. Some popular dishes include: pasta with tomato sauce, bean burritos, tacos, tostadas, pizza, baked potatoes, vegetable soups, whole grain bread and muffins, sandwiches, macaroni, stir-fry, all types of salad, veggie burgers with french fries, beans and rice, bagels, breakfast cereals, pancakes, and waffles just to name a few. The freezer sections of most big grocery stores carry an assortment of vegetarian convenience foods such as veggie bacon, burgers, and breakfast sausages.

10. Are vegetarian diets always healthy?

Not always, if a vegetarian replaces the meat with high fat cheeses and oil, they’re not helping matters much. It’s also important to remember that there’s no meat in ice cream, potato chips, and fudge brownies. It’s certainly possible to be a vegetarian and still consume large quantities of high-fat empty calories. Vegetarian or not, a healthy diet is low in cholesterol and saturated fat and is based around fruits, vegetables, whole grains, and lean protein. Eliminating the meat doesn’t automatically make for a healthy diet
[/tscii:5e771ed900]

[Billgates]

[tscii:68dd591ab0]11. Is it hard to eat in a restaurant when you’re a vegetarian?

It’s actually surprisingly easy. You can always get beans, rice, and tortillas at a Mexican restaurant. Chinese restaurants offer all kinds of vegetable, rice, and tofu dishes. Italian restaurants are known for spaghetti, ravioli, vegetable lasagna, and minestrone soup. Even a steak restaurant is guaranteed to have big salads, baked potatoes and bread.

Fast food chains are surprisingly accommodating as well. Sandwich shops offer an assortment of vegetables and cheeses on a bun with mustard, mayo or whatever you prefer. Burger places are willing to leave the meat off of your sandwich. Many fast food places now offer salads, baked potatoes, or meatless pita sandwiches. The big pizza delivery companies have all kinds of delicious vegetable toppings. They’ll even leave the cheese off if you ask.

12. Is a vegetarian diet safe for children and teenagers?

According to the American Dietetic Association, vegetarian diets satisfy the needs of infants, children, and adolescents and promote normal growth. Emphasis should be placed on foods rich in calcium, iron, and zinc. They also stress that growing children need frequent meals and snacks, and that it’s okay for children to have some refined foods and foods that are higher in fat in order to meet their energy demands.

13. Aren’t vegetarians frail and weak?

No, that one is a myth. Former champion bodybuilder, Bill Pearl is a vegetarian. So is the legendary 6'8, 320 pound wrestler, Killer Kowalski; fitness guru, Jack LaLanne; Olympic gold medalist, Edwin Moses; and 6-time Ironman Triathlon winner, Dave Scott, just to name a few. Burly vegetarians from the animal kingdom include bulls, elephants, rhinos, and gorillas. Try telling one of those guys that you can’t get big and strong eating your leaves and twigs!

14. How do you make the transition to a vegetarian diet?

That depends on the individual. Some people just decide to do it and never look back. Others make gradual changes to their diets. They may start by having one or two meatless meals a day just to try it out. Some people set aside one or two days a week to go veggie, or even one day a week to eat meat. Some people start by eliminating red meat and work from there. Others just cut back on the amount of meat in their diet, using it as a condiment instead of the main course.

15. What if you live with a family of meat-eaters?

This isn’t as tricky as it sounds. It’s possible for vegetarians and meat-eaters to coexist peacefully at the same dinner table. Many dishes are a combination of vegetables, grains, and meat. The idea is to serve the various elements separately or to add the meat last.

Some suggestions include: a pizza that’s half meat / half veggie, Mexican food like tacos or fajitas that everyone assembles themselves, pasta dishes like spaghetti and meatballs with the meat added after the vegetarian has been served, or cookouts where the meat-eaters grill hot dogs and hamburgers and the vegetarian grills veggie dogs and veggie burgers. Don’t forget about meatless favorites like bread, beans, potatoes, pasta, rice, casseroles, and desserts that everyone can enjoy.

16. What do vegetarians do about travel, and social functions?

Major airlines have vegetarian meals available but you need to request it when you make your reservation. At catered events like weddings and parties, you may want to mention your dietary preferences to the host. Caterers can provide a vegetarian meal for you if they know about it ahead of time. For an important business lunch in an unfamiliar restaurant, a quick phone call to inquire about the menu options can help to put you at ease. If you’re invited to dinner in someone’s home, let the host know that you’re a vegetarian. You can also offer to contribute a dish to a dinner party or family gathering. That way you’re assured of having something good to eat.

In all of these cases, you can choose as much or as little advance preparation as you want. If you’d just as soon hang yourself with a dinner napkin than try to make special arrangements, it’s perfectly acceptable to go with the flow and make the best of what’s offered. I haven’t encountered a dining situation yet that didn’t include some variation of vegetables and bread.

17. Do vegetarians need special vitamins and supplements?

In most cases they don’t. A well-rounded vegetarian diet that includes a variety of foods usually meets all nutritional requirements. One possible exception would be vitamin B-12 which is found only in animal products. Vegetarians who limit dairy products may also want to pay special attention to getting enough calcium. Good calcium sources for vegetarians include: tofu, beans, dried figs, collard greens, blackstrap molasses, and calcium fortified orange juice or soy milk.

18. Who are some famous vegetarians?

Leonardo Da Vinci, Charles Darwin, Socrates, Plato, Sir Isaac Newton, Thomas Edison, Clive Barker, David Duchovny, Drew Barrymore, Candice Bergen, Kim Basinger, Paul McCartney, Chelsea Clinton, Woody Harrelson, Steve Vai, Eddie Vedder, Lisa Simpson, Hank Aaron, Alec Baldwin, Bryan Adams, Peter Gabriel, Mary Tyler Moore, Leonard Nimoy, Alicia Silverstone, Liv Tyler, Jerry Seinfeld, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Mark Twain, Henry David Thoreau. (5)

19. What do the experts say?

The American Dietetic Association says that appropriately planned vegetarian diets are healthful, are nutritionally adequate, and provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases
[/tscii:68dd591ab0]

[Billgates]

[tscii:785266475d]11. Is it hard to eat in a restaurant when you’re a vegetarian?

It’s actually surprisingly easy. You can always get beans, rice, and tortillas at a Mexican restaurant. Chinese restaurants offer all kinds of vegetable, rice, and tofu dishes. Italian restaurants are known for spaghetti, ravioli, vegetable lasagna, and minestrone soup. Even a steak restaurant is guaranteed to have big salads, baked potatoes and bread.

Fast food chains are surprisingly accommodating as well. Sandwich shops offer an assortment of vegetables and cheeses on a bun with mustard, mayo or whatever you prefer. Burger places are willing to leave the meat off of your sandwich. Many fast food places now offer salads, baked potatoes, or meatless pita sandwiches. The big pizza delivery companies have all kinds of delicious vegetable toppings. They’ll even leave the cheese off if you ask.

12. Is a vegetarian diet safe for children and teenagers?

According to the American Dietetic Association, vegetarian diets satisfy the needs of infants, children, and adolescents and promote normal growth. Emphasis should be placed on foods rich in calcium, iron, and zinc. They also stress that growing children need frequent meals and snacks, and that it’s okay for children to have some refined foods and foods that are higher in fat in order to meet their energy demands.

13. Aren’t vegetarians frail and weak?

No, that one is a myth. Former champion bodybuilder, Bill Pearl is a vegetarian. So is the legendary 6'8, 320 pound wrestler, Killer Kowalski; fitness guru, Jack LaLanne; Olympic gold medalist, Edwin Moses; and 6-time Ironman Triathlon winner, Dave Scott, just to name a few. Burly vegetarians from the animal kingdom include bulls, elephants, rhinos, and gorillas. Try telling one of those guys that you can’t get big and strong eating your leaves and twigs!

14. How do you make the transition to a vegetarian diet?

That depends on the individual. Some people just decide to do it and never look back. Others make gradual changes to their diets. They may start by having one or two meatless meals a day just to try it out. Some people set aside one or two days a week to go veggie, or even one day a week to eat meat. Some people start by eliminating red meat and work from there. Others just cut back on the amount of meat in their diet, using it as a condiment instead of the main course.

15. What if you live with a family of meat-eaters?

This isn’t as tricky as it sounds. It’s possible for vegetarians and meat-eaters to coexist peacefully at the same dinner table. Many dishes are a combination of vegetables, grains, and meat. The idea is to serve the various elements separately or to add the meat last.

Some suggestions include: a pizza that’s half meat / half veggie, Mexican food like tacos or fajitas that everyone assembles themselves, pasta dishes like spaghetti and meatballs with the meat added after the vegetarian has been served, or cookouts where the meat-eaters grill hot dogs and hamburgers and the vegetarian grills veggie dogs and veggie burgers. Don’t forget about meatless favorites like bread, beans, potatoes, pasta, rice, casseroles, and desserts that everyone can enjoy.

16. What do vegetarians do about travel, and social functions?

Major airlines have vegetarian meals available but you need to request it when you make your reservation. At catered events like weddings and parties, you may want to mention your dietary preferences to the host. Caterers can provide a vegetarian meal for you if they know about it ahead of time. For an important business lunch in an unfamiliar restaurant, a quick phone call to inquire about the menu options can help to put you at ease. If you’re invited to dinner in someone’s home, let the host know that you’re a vegetarian. You can also offer to contribute a dish to a dinner party or family gathering. That way you’re assured of having something good to eat.

In all of these cases, you can choose as much or as little advance preparation as you want. If you’d just as soon hang yourself with a dinner napkin than try to make special arrangements, it’s perfectly acceptable to go with the flow and make the best of what’s offered. I haven’t encountered a dining situation yet that didn’t include some variation of vegetables and bread.

17. Do vegetarians need special vitamins and supplements?

In most cases they don’t. A well-rounded vegetarian diet that includes a variety of foods usually meets all nutritional requirements. One possible exception would be vitamin B-12 which is found only in animal products. Vegetarians who limit dairy products may also want to pay special attention to getting enough calcium. Good calcium sources for vegetarians include: tofu, beans, dried figs, collard greens, blackstrap molasses, and calcium fortified orange juice or soy milk.

18. Who are some famous vegetarians?

Leonardo Da Vinci, Charles Darwin, Socrates, Plato, Sir Isaac Newton, Thomas Edison, Clive Barker, David Duchovny, Drew Barrymore, Candice Bergen, Kim Basinger, Paul McCartney, Chelsea Clinton, Woody Harrelson, Steve Vai, Eddie Vedder, Lisa Simpson, Hank Aaron, Alec Baldwin, Bryan Adams, Peter Gabriel, Mary Tyler Moore, Leonard Nimoy, Alicia Silverstone, Liv Tyler, Jerry Seinfeld, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Mark Twain, Henry David Thoreau. (5)

19. What do the experts say?

The American Dietetic Association says that appropriately planned vegetarian diets are healthful, are nutritionally adequate, and provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases
[/tscii:785266475d]

[Sudhaama]

.
. Majority Views.. NEED NOT BE CORRECT.!!




Since it is quite clear he is too desperate to advocate vegetarianism, seeing his insurmountable obsession with his belief, I am making a dignified retreat.
:lol:

Wise decision, Mrs PP!

There was even a poll on this, right at the beginning and the results seem to indicate little support for the Born Veg theory!

What was the point of the poll, if one person chooses to impress his theory on all others, even when almost everyone disagrees?

Dear Badri,

After all...with the opinions of just 34 persons... you are coming to a conclusion.!!

There are Hundreds of Viewers waiting to give their Verdict. please WAIT AND SEE.!!

How many agree or disagree with me is NOT IMPORTANT for me or for the Hub.

But to what extent and standard of Argument I am able to substantiate ULTIMATELY...

..is alone important.

Dear Friends... I have already made clear.. I am yet to say a lot of Main points.

But I should not be hasty... under the present trend.
.

[Billgates]

How many agree or disagree with me is NOT IMPORTANT for me or for the Hub.

But to what extent and standard of Argument I am able to substantiate ULTIMATELY...

..is alone important.

Dear Friends... I have already made clear.. I am yet to say a lot of Main points.

But I should not be hasty... under the present trend.
.

Mr. Sudhama Sir

You are not the sole rep of Vegetarianism. Dont worry. I am with you on this mission possible. Let the verbal violence unleashed on you & the taunts get annihilated. Truth will prevail ultimately. Cheers Sir

[Sudhaama]

.
Dear Bill Gates,

Thank You. Welcome.
.

[Roshan]

Since it is quite clear he is too desperate to advocate vegetarianism, seeing his insurmountable obsession with his belief, I am making a dignified retreat.
:lol:
That's the wise thing. Let us leave this thread for Mr.Sudhamma's obsessive ramblings :clap:



But I think people are well educated and wiser than what they are given credit for by elders like us.

:thumbsup: :notworthy:


Hemantji,

Hope you are doing fine :) Take care.

[Nichiro]

Since it is quite clear he is too desperate to advocate vegetarianism, seeing his insurmountable obsession with his belief, I am making a dignified retreat.

With all my ignorence, I too follow wiser people.
I too retreat .
Amen

[Sudhaama]

.
.World Famous Vegetarians.. Examples amongst many.

The Below-mentioned Elite-Gentlemen were brought up by their Parents as Non-Vegetarians...

...but subsequently changed as Total Vegetarians VOLUNTARILY...

...after getting convinced that the VEGETARIAN FOODS are the BEST-SUITED for Mankind.

When questioned by others, they replied with the due practical justifications for the Truth-discovery.

Albert Einstein - Germany - Advanced Scientist

Thomas Alwa Edison - USA - Advanced Scientist

Leonardo Da vinci. - Italy - Advanced Painting Artist cum Sculptor.

Pythagoras - Greece - Advanced Mathematcian - Research Scholar in Geometry.

Oliver Goldsmith - UK - Writer cum English Poet.

George Bernard Shaw - UK - Writer cum Dramatist.

Baldwin Billy - USA - Hollywood Actor

Benjamin Franklin - USA - Multi-talented Genius - Scientist cum Statesman.

Dr Kenneth Kaunda - Zambia. - Founder President of Zambia - African Sociologist.
.

[*Urmila*]

Only to support what I said earlier in this thread about the Eskimos:

http://www.workersforjesus.com/esk.htm

Bye, Bye.

[Sudhaama]

.
. "We err in copying the Lower animal world -

...if we are SUPERIOR to it....


I do not regard flesh-food as necessary for us at any stage and under any clime...

..in which it is possible for human beings ordinarily to live.

I hold flesh-food to be unsuited to our species."


Mohandas Gandhi

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[*Urmila*]

Don't know if there is anything scientific to this quote, but I do know that animals are classed and animals lower than human beings eat the flesh of animals that are vulnerable and fall prey to them not that these preys are inferior in class. Superior man would be eaten by a lion or a tiger.

[*Urmila*]

Logic says one thing, but envirnoment and circumstances tells you another. Logic varies from person to person depending on perception.

[*Urmila*]

Sudhaama Sir,

It might be of interest to you to watch some discovery channels of the behavior of animals towards one another in the animal kingdom. Their behavior towards birds and animals and in the wild. You may also be able to see the behavior of reptiles towards birds and animals.

There is an interesting part on change of weather in India (forest life during and after the monsoon rain) and in Africa during migration of animals during certain seasons. You will see these changes affect animal behavior and which animals becomes preys and how they are attacked. This may provide you with a broader understanding of animal behavior including humans towards food and survival.

[Sudhaama]

,
, Nothing will benefit Human health...

.. and increase the chances for survival of Life on Earth...

... as much as the Evolution to a Vegetarian diet.


The vegetarian manner of living by its purely physical effect on the Human temperament...

... would most beneficially influence the lot of Mankind.

. Albert Einstein - Advanced SCIENTIST.
.

[Iqbalvora]

Dear Mr. Sudhama,

Wish introduce myself . I am IqbalVora from Godhra . Basically a Gujarathi born and brought up in Ahmedabad .
Since childhood, I have been used to eating Non-vegetarian food. Besides, our religion also indirectly permits this.
However, I realized the virtues of being a Vegetarian by the age of 25 year. Believe me, I have totally stopped eating Non-veg. And even egg, I am trying to avoid ( though its a bit unavoidable as its being used extentively on cakes , icecreams etc which have become a common man's eatery now )
Even during Ramzan / ID , generally Muslims celebrate , breaking the fast by eating non-veg. But I am totally determined now to shun NOn-veg. So, even during these occasions , I am totally a vegetarian now. However, my family continues to remain non-veg eaters ( I mean my elders and peers ). As regards my children, I am educating them with the virtues of being a vegetarian on humanitarian grounds and also on ethical values. I hope I will make my children / next generation also totally vegetarian.
Wish to share with you all, my personal experience after converting myself to Vegetarianism :
1. I was over arrogant / rude / violent during the early 20s. I have become more matured, diplomatic, restrained, and controlled in expressing myself.
2. During my non-veg years, I will even think of eleminating someone who was totally against my views. Rather I was a radical guy but thanks to vegetarianism, I am totally a Gandhain to say now ! How I got transformed to such a level, only Allah can answer this mystery.
3. WHenver I meet my school/ college friends, I share this changed concept of my life with them . Some took it in right spirits but others said that I got influenced by some philosophy or school of thought. I told them that I am persoanally experiencing a laterial change in my life
4. My own body mechanism has changed drastically ! This has also been proved by Science I believe. I am more relaxed, able to solve office / business problems with much ease , able to withstand more pressures and above all, able to sleep peacefully without getting the knightmares of having eaten some living being ( harmless )

Yes, I will also vouch for your writings on Vegetarianism. Insha Alla, I will be able to convince more human beings on the virtues of Vegetarianism. Your articles here will be the guiding force to me .
Thank you sir.

Regards

IqbalVora

[Shakthiprabha.]

Actually I wondered if at all my sharing of thoughts is NECESSARY here, then just decided to write A SINGLE POST.

Just to answer few questions I write here.

____

1. Whether or not ONE CAN be vegetarian or non-vegetarian IS ONE'S OWN CHOICE. No outsiders can interfere here.

Each one has the RIGHT to live his life.

Instead of discussing this amicably, Sudhama has been left and right BASHED. But yes, he INVITED it upon himself mainly beucase OF THE WAY HE COMMUNICATED here.

Sudhama has been MISUNDERSTOOD mainly because of the WAY HE PUTS forth his points. I have EQUALLY found hurting words directed towards him too, which he handled politely.

What Sudhama is trying to do, is to PUT FORTH the ADVANTAGES of being vegetarian.

Those who are comfortable can take his arguments, else IT CAN BE IGNORED.

IF the SAME ADVANTAGES was said by a doctor, on harmful effects of harmonal injections done to animals is far worse than pesticides or fertilizers on vegetables.... or if you read similar such things in a magazine, MOST OF U, WOULD SIT BACK AND THINK. Wouldn't you?

____

I wanna put forth and highlight some advantages of being vegetarian

Ofcourse its each one's choice. So relax JUST READ and if u dont find my points convincing, THROW my points OUT OF UR MIND considering it as dumb ones.

ITS just MY VIEW... thats all.

thankyou .
___


I AM a VEGETARIAN. I dont FIND myself different or inferior or superir to A NON-VEGETARIAN. Its each one's choice.

I wanna just elaborate WHAT MADE ME STICK TO BEING VEGETARIAN ( Most of u may find it silly... if yes, PLEASE IGNORE :P :) )

cheers.!


__

1. I was BORN vegetarian, so, NO BIG SACRIFICE from my part OR no big deal in sticking to as vegetarian for me.

2. There are some foods which are prone to increase some qualities in us. Basically ANIMALS have gunas (qualities ) which may be tamasic, rajasic or satvic.

tamasic = leads to dull sluggish qualities
rajasic = leads to egoistic qualities
satvic = leads to serene calm qualities

THOUGH DEFINITELY, not all vegetarians are serene and not all nonvegetarians are egoistic.

Type of Food we eat PLAYS A PART too.

That is the main reason, why saadhakas or ppl who are in spiritual paths are prescribed VEGETARIAN foods.

That is the reason, WHY Non vegetarains AVOID meat during vratham or vendudhal or when they go to sabhari malai or WHEN they PRAY specially for any specific reason.

__

3. point 3 is for all those who asked "IS NOT THE TREE living?" "dont plants live" "are we not killing them" etc

I shall tell u my view, BASED ON what little I know...

First of all VERY STRICT vegetarians in olden days, because they
should not KILL plants, USED TO AVOID ROOT VEGETABLES too, unless the tree dies and root has to be pulled out . These days not many follow all these so strictly.

Now to answer what is the diff between eating plants and eating animals...

Evolution has taken place slowly....

from unicellular organisms to 6 sensed human being.

With every evolution, there is an addition of another sense.

plants have 4 senses
ANIMALS have 5 senses

Generally with addition of another sense, THE PAIN which they experience INCREASES .

When u cut a leaf, the pain which plant experience is MUCH LESS than the pain which an animal experiences when u kill an animal / birds.

CANNIBALS are ppl who eat human beings. Its considered NOT SO WISE because PAIN which humanbeing experiences COMBINES WITH INCREASED AWARENESS.

Therefore, as per cause and effect theory, the effect a vegetarian have WOULD BE different from the EFFECT which a non-vegetarian has when he consumes non.veg food.

These are the basic reasons, why SOME RELIGOUS followers avoided non.vegetarian food.

Ofcourse these days most vegetarians have eggs in form of cakes... they use jelly use lipsticks (darn me :sad: ) .... so... I dont think many DO JUSTICE to the word of BEING PURE vegetarian....

This post is JUST TO POINT OUT some ADVANTAGES.

All said n done there are exceptions everywhere.

So... no hard feelings...
Be Happy eating what u like. enjoy life. smile... and CHEERS.

:thumbsup:

[*Urmila*]

Reminds me when I was doing my thesis and this probably where I got my discipline. In trying to prove a theory or find answers, it is important to consider and examine all possibilities, conditions and effects, in achieving "objectivity". At the end the examiner or the world wants to see how objective you can be in accepting your findings or theory.

It is clear in Mr. Sudaama's approach that this was lacking and he was attacked as one would in defending a position where there is a big jump from what he set out to prove and what he wanted to prove only too soon without any evidence to subtantiate his claim. He did not follow the stages that would allow for objective result that would add validity to his claim and minimize criticism.

You are looking for trouble when you claim that you are setting out to find answers (evident by that pole), when you already think you have the answer and moreover, trying to impose it, especially when it's coming from someone who ought to know better. As much as I follow a vegetarian or almost a full vegetarian path and intend to be completely a vegetarian one-day by excluding eggs, I could not accept this approach. After all, the topic was not about the positive or negative effects of vegetarianism or why vegetarianism is best for health or humans in concluding that man was born vegetarian.

Some of us are strangled for our objectivity even when it's not in our interest to be so objective.

Personal opinion of an author or researcher is best left to the end. Even this is likely to change from that started out with, but first you must give yourself the "opportunity", otherwise, it's all wasted
efforts.

[Nichiro]

Friends,

Much against my wish not to participate further in this lopsided thread, I am posting a very interesting and though provoking beautiful paper written by unknown person which is taken from the net with profound thanks.

Nichiro




[tscii:c60da6a4be]T h e s i l e n c e o f v e g e t a b l e s

Is eating vegetarians wrong?

Although giving the omnivorous point of view, the purpose of this page is not to lambaste or vilify vegetarians or carnivores. Neither is it propaganda to convert the reader to either cause, nor to dissuade anyone from taking their chosen path. The reason for writing this tract is to attempt an impartial assessment of the topic of human food consumption and to reflect on the evolutionary consequences.

When you take one step back and take a long cold look at a subject, perspectives shift, there is a parallax view where different levels slide across each other and a different picture emerges.

Parallax level 1
The only thing all members of the animal, insect and plant kingdoms can eat are, or have been at one time, by definition, living. Nothing can suck nutrients out of bare rock: soil is decomposed plant matter mixed with powdered rock, but even the lowly earth-worm munching away beneath your lawn is not actually consuming the earth, it is merely filtering the microscopic plant, insect and animal material from it. The sad truth is that at some point or other, the stuff at the end of your fork was once alive - in William Burrows parlance - welcome to The Naked Lunch.

Parallax level 2
Herbivores eat grass and other herbage. Arbivores eat trees. Frugivores eat fruit. Folivore eat leaves. Insectivores eat insects. Fungivores dine exclusively on mushrooms. Carnivores eat meat. Omnivores, on the other hand, will eat anything. Except most omnivores will not eat carnivorous animals and many will never eat omnivorous ones.

Invariably, most omnivores will refuse to eat their pets; some extrapolate the 'domestic-pet' scenario to include all domesticated animals; others push this back further to embrace all furry creatures. Some omnis refuse to eat red meat of any kind; some abstain from eating fowl as well and dine entirely on seafood; some will not devour meat in any form - all these call themselves 'vegetarians', but this is not a biological classification, they are still omnivores but following a vegetarian life-style. Some of them however, will eat neither meat nor any of its derivatives, such as dairy products, eggs and jelly (jello) - termed 'vegan', this omnivore is unique in the animal kingdom as the only being who abstains from meat eating deliberately and voluntarily. (Most vegetarian animals eat insects and molluscs as a consequence of eating raw fruit, herbs and vegetables). For some it is a matter of conscience; for some it is pure economics; for some it is religion. I even imagine some just don't like the taste6.

Parallax level 3
There is a concept called the food chain. This is 'a series of organisms connected by the fact that each forms food for the next higher organism in the series'. In nature, organisms in this chain have little choice as to their position in it, though (without exception) all strive to be the top. However, organisms cannot move up the chain, (grass cannot turn around and eat a cow), an organism can only be top by ensuring that the chain stops with them and they do not become food for the next higher organism. Evolution of defence systems are the organisms attempt to be at the top of this chain - plants developed thorns and toxins to prevent themselves from being eaten1 - animals and insects developed camouflage, agility and in some cases, the ability to fight back.

Humans have become fairly successful in achieving this goal against large predators, but as yet, we are still a viable food source for a large number of smaller organisms, such as parasites and microscopic organisms. Humans have the rare ability to move up a food chain - we can turn around and eat our prey, yet strangely we do not - even though we kill our possible predators, we do not seem to eat them.

As an omnivore, humans have the survival advantage of being part of several food chains. As thinking beings we can voluntarily decide that some of these food chains are morally unacceptable. The only way this can be viable is if the remaining food chains can effectively support the entire human population. We can only do that if we are living way above the starvation threshold. We cannot choose not to be a part of some of these food chains if doing so is a threat to our survival.

Parallax level 4
At some point in human evolution our ancestors augmented their vegetarian diet with animal protein. The motivation for this must have been survival - the vegetable matter that humanoids can digest consists of roots, seeds and fruit and for some reason, this must have become less plentiful. In a non-seasonal climate these are available all year round, however, if the earth's climate in the region that humanoids were living in changed to the seasonal one of a defined spring, summer, autumn and winter cycle, this would no longer the be case. Unable to digest grasses and leaf-matter, then during winter and early spring the only other viable food sources were the animals that could and humans became omnivorous. For millions of years this seasonal nature of edible vegetation has governed human diet.

As a hunter-gatherer you could put peas on your plate for a few days a year if you could find them. As a farmer, you could ensure this happened for a few weeks each and every year. The science of preserving fruit and vegetables allowed modern human to break this seasonal cycle and initially put dried peas on our plates 365 days a year. Canning technology of the 19th century did this for processed peas. Deep-freeze technology put frozen peas on the diner plate 365 days a year. With modern farming, global transport and massive glasshouses you can now have fresh peas 365 days a year. In today's modern super-market environment it is difficult to imagine the idea of fruit and vegetables being seasonal at all. As little as twenty years ago fresh salads in the Northern Hemisphere during winter were unheard of. Now even the yearly cycle of new and old potatoes is starting to disappear (though the sight of strawberries on the shelves 12 months a year still freaks me out).

Most of the 'staples' of the vegetarian diet are seasonal by nature - it is only modern farming, storage and man's ingenuity that have made them available all year round - remove those elements and a vegetarian would struggle to survive for most of the year. After 120,000 years of omnivorous living by Homo sapiens sapiens, 5 million years of the Australopithecus genus before them (or 6.1 million years to 'Millennium Man', Orrorin tugenensis) and in excess of 20 million years of the hominid branch of ape family before that, modern technology has made vegetarianism a viable existence again. And by that, vegetarianism is only viable with modern technology.

Parallax level 5
One of the most generally accepted theories proposed for mankind evolution from apes is the Savannah Theory, (but there are others, see silence of aquatic apes), that states that early humanoids moved from the forests to the savannah in search for food. At best there are only two main food-sources on the savannah: the first are grasses - plants that humans and apes cannot digest; the second are grass-eating animals (cattle and rodents), which they can. To make this habitat change, the proto-human ape that made this transition must have been omnivorous while still living in the forest - gorillas and orang-utans could not and did not leave the forest because they were not omnivorous. This assumption is reinforced by the fact that Chimpanzees (our closest living relative in the Ape family) is also omnivorous. This implies that human beings have been omnivorous for a considerably long time - something in excess of 20 million years.

Parallax level 6
If it were not for domesticated animals, the vegetarian would probably not exist. If we were still hunters-gatherers responsible for obtaining our own food from the wild there would not be an issue. It does seem odd that a being who evolved as a hunter-gather has a tendency to shy away from and even be repulsed by the gruesome realities of death and butchery. We do not learn this ability and it is not a product of the late 20th century - it is both natural and instinctive - humans are easily nauseated animals. We attribute this feeling to our 'humanity' or our empathy with all living things, however no one knows whether this is a feeling attached to all omnivores and carnivores, or whether it is unique to human beings. Certainly some animals do not appear to be as indifferent to death as you would expect. It could be argued that this revulsion of killing is an indication that mankind was meant to be vegetarian, however, as humans and their evolutionary ancestors have been omnivorous in excess of 20 million years, this is unlikely. One possibility is that our squeamishness is an unconscious form of self-control that ensured we only killed what we needed to survive. This could have been a primitive 'farming' instinct that prevented early humans from killing and eating everything in sight and one that caused us to become farmers in the first place. This would mean that the very feeling that turns people to vegetarianism or full-blown veganism and the feeling that allows us to regard all life as being sacred is a natural emotion that kept us omnivorous and stopped us becoming out-right carnivores.

Divorcing the raising and slaughtering process from the act of consumption has neutralised and desensitised this emotion. We go to the supermarket to buy meat with no need for the knowledge of how that hermetically sealed package got there. The link between animal and beef-burger is broken. This could explain the modern condition of obesity. Without the stark and brutal realisation of the killing and butchering process the self-control is lost and the human animal descends into gluttony and it over-eats. Discovering the realities of modern factory-farming2 methods restores this connection, but the graphic imagery is too powerful and causes an over-reaction of this natural brake and the idea of eating any animal becomes abhorrent. The thought that the fork-full of meat protein once led a miserable existence and suffered a horrific death is too barbaric to contemplate and another vegetarian is born.

Parallax level 7
Town and city dwelling has heightened the desensitisation of killing/eating. The Industrial Revolution of the 18th century moved the majority of the human population out of the countryside, away from the grim realities of farm life. Because most of the population of the Western World is no longer a part of the birth/nurture/harvest cycle we have lost all sense of sympathetic harmony with it. Fired by a secret desire to return, our image of farm-life is frozen in a bucolic idyll from a time that never existed, of lusty milkmaids and rustic cowherds, of pigs in the orchard and chickens running around the farmyard. This is the imagery of John Constable, Walt Disney and even George Orwell, (imagine Animal Farm transposed to a modern factory farm and a different tale would ensue), but is far from real life. Farming was never like that, and never will be. While our fictional picture farming remained stuck on the chocolate box lid, the reality kept pace with the progress that was occurring in every other quarter of commerce. The laws of supply and demand took over and farms became more efficient, some even became food-factories - we wanted food on demand, and we wanted it cheap - regardless of the cost.

This romanticised view of country living was extended to the farm animals themselves to the extent that many perceive the domesticated pig as the small, cute creature of the 'Babe' films or as a dirty, swill-eating creature. Both perceptions have stopped some humans from eating this animal. The reality is that the average pig is naturally omnivorous, grows to 3 metres (10 feet) in length, is as vicious and bad-tempered as it's forest living wild boar cousin and is a clean animal that wallows like a hippopotamus or an elephant to keep cool. It is no co-incidence that most vegetarians are also city dwellers.

Parallax level 8
Animal husbandry methods have improved, in fact they are far better now than they were even ten years ago, and that was a vast improvement on the situation in the ten years before. There is little doubt that these improvements were necessary and long overdue. Even the most confirmed non-vegetarian will admit that the factory farming techniques of the late 20th century were inhuman. Now phrases such as 'organic', 'free-range' and 'farm-assured' are the norm rather than the exception. Of course, if farmed animals' existence were happy to the point of being idyllic it would not make the meat any more palatable, it could even make it less so. However, the planet cannot support 6 billion human omnivores without intensive livestock farming, any more than it can support an equal number of vegetarians without intensive high technology arable farming.

Parallax level 9
Genetic engineering as been around for something like 20,000 years. Every farmed commodity has been modified by mankind and bears little resemblance to the wild stock it originated from. The wheat in our bread has been engineered to give higher yield than its prehistoric ancestor, it is also shorter to make the work of combine harvesters easier. Cattle are bred to give more meat per hoof and modern meat has been bred so that it contains less fat than it use to. All of the fresh food produce on the Supermarket shelves has been 'engineered' to look appealing. Some of these achievements are the result of selection, some by crossbreeding and some probably by direct (but undisclosed) Genetic Modification. Because of this they are by definition unnatural and have no place in the wild.

This raises another morality question. If the whole world becomes vegetarian, what happens to all the domesticated animals? Farm animals cannot be released back into the wild, because after 20,000 years of domestication, those creatures are not from the wild. For example, battery-hens cannot be released into the forests because they are not the same birds that mankind took from there - all of the attributes that allowed chickens to survive in the wild have been bred out of them. Also, most of the forests we took the original stock from no longer exist, (they are now fields growing the arable crops needed to feed the population), and those that do still exist have other fauna filling the ecological niche that chickens once occupied.

The same is true for cows, sheep, pigs, turkeys and all other domesticated livestock. Releasing farm animals into the wild will radically disturb the existing ecological balance. When compared to the effects on the indigenous wildlife that a few 'liberated' mink have caused in the UK countryside, letting the entire population of 846 million modern farm pigs loose would be an environmental catastrophe of epic proportions. If these animals no longer serve a useful purpose then they will either be kept in small numbers in living museums (zoos) or they will be allowed to become extinct.

Parallax level 10
The human body has evolved to cope with an omnivorous diet. The creature we know as Homo sapiens sapiens has never been a vegetarian, the evolutionary branch of apes that became Homo sapiens sapiens has been omnivorous for somewhere between 10 to 20 million years. Since both Humans and Chimpanzees are omnivores, it is most certain that the common ancestor of the two species was also omnivorous, implying that humans have had several tens of millions of years of evolution to adapt to a meat diet. It cannot survive unaided on a meat only diet, similarly, it cannot survive on a simple vegetarian diet.

For a healthy existence, the diet must be balanced so that all of the minerals, proteins, vitamins, essential fatty acids and amino acids normally obtained from meat are replaced by suitable substitutes. Many vegetarians achieve this by augmenting their diet with additional vitamin and mineral supplements. It is possible to obtain those supplements naturally, but these generally do not come from local sources. For example, peanuts are often used as a source of protein, however, the amount of protein per gram is considerably less in peanuts than in red meat, (and some humans are allergic to peanuts), and this is not a crop that can be grown in every country in the world. It is not possible to replace a pig-farm in Denmark (for example) with a field of peanuts without artificially creating a suitable environment (vis. a heated greenhouse with artificial gro-lights). Obviously the peoples of Denmark could grow other crops that are eminently more suited to their environment. Even if it supplied all of their protein needs, it would need to be one that could produce a surplus that would compensate for the export deficit created by not producing bacon. If it were not a high-yielding protein crop, then it would need to be one that would pay for the cost of importing one that was.

The ideal of vegetarianism being a low-tech ecologically friendly system is perfectly viable and sound when a small percentage of the world's population is vegetarian and it is practised on a small-scale. But to maintain larger percentages would require high-tech and possibly ecologically unfriendly solutions. A large-scale switch to a vegetarian diet would dramatically redraw the socio-economic map of a World whose economy is based primarily on food. Fortunately, this change would not happen overnight, chaos would not ensue as markets crashed and trade was thrown into turmoil, the change would be as slow as peoples conversion to vegetarianism, but it would still be a revolution of historic proportions on par with the Agricultural Revolution and the Industrial Revolution.

A world vegetarian population would still have to rely on intensive food production and an extensive global food transport infrastructure to support it. It would also require a high-tech pharmaceutical industry to keep it and its food healthy. If the concept of Genetic Modification was not an anathema to most, then these supplements could be genetically incorporated into staple crops.

Animals that are naturally plant-eaters do not require any additional supplements. They are this way because that is how they evolved. So for mankind to abandon eating meat and meat products, it is highly likely that we would eventually evolve into an animal that does not require them (Homo sapiens vegeticus?).

Parallax level 11
The growth of brain tissue is linked to two fatty acids Docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) (omega-3) and Arachidonic acid (AA) (omega-6). These are found in sufficient concentrations to make a difference in meat and the best source is seafood. Their benefits to mammalian development can be graphically seen in whales and dolphins, whose brain size is dramatically larger than their land based cousins. This evolutionary brain-size increase is also paralleled in the development of the human brain to the extent that some scientists now believe that it was the transition from fruit eating to fish eating that resulted in the rapid growth of brainpower in early humanoids. This is not coincidence, carnivores require larger brains than herbivores to be able to hunt.

If it were not for the inclusion of fish into the diet of our prehistoric ancestors then the human race would not have evolved and we would remained just another monkey. Since the common ancestor of Chimpanzees and Humans was probably an omnivore, the crucial deciding event that separated us was the increase in DHA and AA to our diet, which subsequently lead to an dramatic increase in the size of our brain.

The implication is that if these two fatty acids are removed from the human diet, then brain development would decrease and, over the course of evolutionary time, Homo sapiens sapiens would evolve into a less intelligent creature (Homo stupidiens vegeticus?), back to a similar level as the other primates. This is borne out by the palentological evidence: an 8% decrease in human brain-size in the last 10,000 years is closely paralleled by our decrease in fish consumption - we eat considerably less fish and meat now than our prehistoric ancestors did. At the present rate of decrease, the human brain would be 75% smaller in 170,000 years - which is close to the smallest brain a primate of our body size and metabolism can have and still survive. With lower concentrations of DHA and AA this would happen notably sooner. But even this is a simplistic view - the reality would be more complex, with several major physiological changes, such as height and gut-size and many minor ones involving glands and other internal organs adjusting to the change in diet. Our subdermal fat layer would decrease to a level it would no longer keep us warm, our reduced brain-size would mean the ability to make clothing would have disappeared long ago, so body hair would need to become thicker and more dense. In a sense, we would de-evolve3.

Of course, vegetarians who do not believe in the Theory of Evolution have nothing to fear from a diet lacking in DHA and AA.

The three-dimensional picture.
Modern man, with all his intelligence, inventiveness, curiosity and resourcefulness is a product of an omnivorous diet. A vegetarian is a product of conscience and the rationalisation of being human. Vegetarianism is not a biological diet in the same way as a herbivorous or carnivorous diet is, it is as much an invention of mankind as Teflon and the space program. The only natural element in vegetarianism is that it may be the next natural step in the evolution of mankind.

A vegetarian can only exist in an environment that will support it. In the western world this is because of the unparalleled success of farming - if our farming techniques had not been developed to the degree that produces a food surplus every year then we would not be able to be quite so choosy in which food we can eat. If these agricultural developments had not overcome the seasonal nature of most vegetable crops and lessened the risk of crop-failures, then a vegetarian diet would not be as attractive as it is today. Remove the transport infrastructure and rice, tinned tomatoes and other 'exotic' foods would disappear from the menu in many countries. Faced with the prospect of only being able to eat pulses and other preserved foods for most of the year, with a hiatus of fresh fruit and vegetables only during late summer and autumn the majority of the world's population would remain omnivorous.

I have little doubt that the majority of human race could eventually become vegetarian. The reality is that humankind is slowly evolving into a vegetarian animal by the very process that enables us to continue to be omnivorous. But this is an on-going process that is far from complete and the earth is not in a condition that can support six billion vegetarians yet. A second Agricultural Revolution will be required to enable this Utopia to come into existence and the human beings that live there will be physically and mentally so different to us that they will be classified as a totally new species of hominid. Since it is rational choice rather than survival that will determine whether this new species will evolve or not, the existing omnivorous humans will remain and once again the earth will have two hominid species co-existing. However, since the vegetarian hominid will have a smaller brain, it is unlikely that they will be the dominant species - they might even be good eating…

[/tscii:c60da6a4be]

WITH THANKS FROM THE WWW NET.

[Lambretta]

3. point 3 is for all those who asked "IS NOT THE TREE living?" "dont plants live" "are we not killing them" etc
Excellent point, KK 'ka! :D

Yes I rem. being asked this qsn./comment a no. of times while in S'pore.......they'd say plants have life too, right blah blah lah.....:roll: :x
Pity I didnt get to read a point like this while I was there! :(


Ofcourse these days most vegetarians have eggs in form of cakes... they use jelly use lipsticks (darn me :sad: ) .... so... I dont think many DO JUSTICE to the word of BEING PURE vegetarian....
Not to mention most toothpastes in the market have bone-powder mixed in them, which destroys the enamel eventually! :x


Be Happy eating what u like. enjoy life. smile... and
And respect the choices of others too of course! :D

[skanthan]

To Urmila, Sudhaama, Lamby and all.

For 5 years after I became a Hindu (Some say I was always a Hindu and ask what do I mean by "became"?), I still ate meat. The days I went to the temple and the days before and after going, I avoided these things. But otherwise, I ate meat. Many Hindus had guided me and encouraged me to become a vegitarian (Though some have told me that there is no need to.) I read many lituratures from many Hindu traditions and Gurus such as Sri Karunamayi (my Guru), Sri Sathya Sai Baba, Sivaya Subramuniaswami and Sri Prabhupada all of which extolled the glories of vegitarianism. Sivaya Subramuniyaswami one had stated in one of his books "Loving Ganesha" that Lord Ganesha even will accept prayers offered by those who eat meat, eggs and fish, then he goes on to say that through the infinite Grace of Lord Ganesha, these people who eat the afore mentioned items, (meat, fish, and eggs) will eventually become vegitarians. ;)

In late 1999, I did try it out for a few days, but it did not work out for me. I then decided that I will eat only veg. whenever I go to the temple. And this worked. But in 1998 and 1999(the year I first attempted becoming a vegitarian), I would get occasional bouts of depression/sadness/discust due to eating meat. :( I started to really not like the idea of eating meat. I enjoyed the taste of meat, but, I thought it would be better if I became a vegitarian.

In 2000 and 2001, I, like many others around the world started getting reports in newpapers and on the news programs about thing suich as "mad cow" and "foot and mouth" diseases. Then in early 2002, when I strted planning for my shift to Edmonton (I shifted to Edmonton in April 2003), I decided that I wanted to and will become a vegitarian and vowed to do so by the summer that year. And one day in June 2002, I stopped eating meat and fish and I stopped eating eggs in November 2003 just months after I shifted to Edmonton. For a long time, I was tempted to eat meat and tried taking my vegitarianism as far as avoiding thing which had egg in them, but found very difficult to do.

But now by the compassionate Grace of my Guru and Spiritual Mother, Sri Karunamayi, I have been able to completely abstain from meat, fish and eggs have no desire to eat these things again.

I have found like many others here, that a vegitarian diet is far healthier than a non vegitarian diet. While I do not hold it against those who continue to take a non vegitarian diet, I am fully aware of the benifits of a vegitarian diet.

[joe]

Skanthan,

1. What are the benefits of you being vegitarian ? Can you list out ?

2. What is the problem in taking fish ? Isn't Japanese who eat more fish are more healthier than so-called vegitarian indians?

3.what food normally you take ? whatever you take also taken by non-vegitarians also ? Non-vegitarians doesn't mean not taking vegitable,right ?

4. In the name of vegitarianism ,indians eat more of rice ,wheet only ,not much vegitable ..Non -vegitarian chinese take more vegitables than vegitarian indians ..don't you agree?

[skanthan]

Skanthan,

1. What are the benefits of you being vegitarian ? Can you list out ?

2. What is the problem in taking fish ? Isn't Japanese who eat more fish are more healthier than so-called vegitarian indians?

3.what food normally you take ? whatever you take also taken by non-vegitarians also ? Non-vegitarians doesn't mean not taking vegitable,right ?

4. In the name of vegitarianism ,indians eat more of rice ,wheet only ,not much vegitable ..Non -vegitarian chinese take more vegitables than vegitarian indians ..don't you agree?

Hi, joe. How are you?

Perhaps someone can help in answering joes post?

Of course both vegitarians an non vegitarians eat vegitables. A vegitarian is someone who does not eat any meat or seafood and sometimes not even eggs.

[Iqbalvora]

Any conclusion on this discussion ? Veg is superior or non veg ?
As a nonvegie converted into a vege. I feel Veg is ultimate .

[Sudhaama]

.

Any conclusion on this discussion ? Veg is superior or non veg ?
As a nonvegie converted into a vege. I feel Veg is ultimate .

My Dear Iqbalvora.

You are GREAT.!!... Because of your high INTENTIONS... towards the OPEN-MINDED section of Mankind.

So I am proud of you... and HATS OFF TO YOU... for your bold declaration without feeling shy to say so.

Yes you are falling in line with the Universal GREATS... like...

...Dr Albert Einstein, George Bernard Shaw and Dr. Abdul Kalam (Ex. President - One of the Great prides of India)...

..who too were originally Non-Vegetarians... but...

..subsequently changed to Strict Vegetarians ... OF THEIR OWN ACCORD...

..since radically convinced... that the FITTEST FOOD for Mankind...is VEGETARIAN ONLY.
.

[sarna_blr]

.

Any conclusion on this discussion ? Veg is superior or non veg ?
As a nonvegie converted into a vege. I feel Veg is ultimate .

My Dear Iqbalvora.

You are GREAT.!!... Because of your high INTENTIONS... towards the OPEN-MINDED section of Mankind.

So I am proud of you... and HATS OFF TO YOU... for your bold declaration without feeling shy to say so.

Yes you are falling in line with the Universal GREATS... like...

...Dr Albert Einstein, George Bernard Shaw and Dr. Abdul Kalam (Ex. President - One of the Great prides of India)...

..who too were originally Non-Vegetarians... but...

..subsequently changed to Strict Vegetarians ... OF THEIR OWN ACCORD...

..since radically convinced... that the FITTEST FOOD for Mankind...is VEGETARIAN ONLY.
.

appa NON-VEG saappida koodaadhaa? :(

[Sudhaama]

.
.Food the matter of INDIVIDUAL CHOICE & Self-code.



.

Any conclusion on this discussion ? Veg is superior or non veg ?
As a nonvegie converted into a vege. I feel Veg is ultimate .

My Dear Iqbalvora.

You are GREAT.!!... Because of your high INTENTIONS... towards the OPEN-MINDED section of Mankind.

So I am proud of you... and HATS OFF TO YOU... for your bold declaration without feeling shy to say so.

Yes you are falling in line with the Universal GREATS... like...

...Dr Albert Einstein, George Bernard Shaw and Dr. Abdul Kalam (Ex. President - One of the Great prides of India)...

..who too were originally Non-Vegetarians... but...

..subsequently changed to Strict Vegetarians ... OF THEIR OWN ACCORD...

..since radically convinced... that the FITTEST FOOD for Mankind...is VEGETARIAN ONLY.
.

appa NON-VEG saappida koodaadhaa? :(

Nobody can say that Mankind or any Individual should not take Non-Vegetarian category Foods....

..or that NV Foods are UNFIT... No Not at all to decry NV Foods.

You have to decide what is the BEST FOR YOU.

One Man's Food is anothers Poison.!!!
.

[Sudhaama]

.
. Vegetarian too can Climb and SURVIVE WELL..

...even on the Mount Everest.!

Some of the present day younger generation are under Surmise or Notions or Inference...

...that Non-Vegetarian Foods, Smoking and Alcohol are the MUST... MUST and the MUST...

..suiting to the Modern era of Scientific age.!...

..especially to EXIST AND SURVIVE... in the Western countries...

..and more particularly in extremely cold regions like Norway, Sweden, Siberia etc.

Is it Correct.?

"No it is False... just a MYTH... and WRONG NOTION".. said Dr.Radhakrishnan, Ex.President of India..

..a STRICT VEGETARIAN to the Core... who proved in practice by living in Russia as the Indian Ambassador...

..maintaining GOOD and SOUND HEALTH... coupled with Cheer.!..

INCREDIBLE.?.. But TRUE.!

He was laughed at... as also considered CHEAP... and RIDICULED by others behind..

...as the OUT-DATED Indian.!. UNADJUSTING.. NON ACCOMODATIVE... UNSUITED to keep COMPANY...

...nor for FRIENDSHIP-TEAM... FOOLISHLY ADAMANT...Humanly IMPRACTICABLE Mad Living-Habits...

...unduly OVER-ORTHODOX.. Does not know HOW TO ENJOY THE BEST in Life.!...

..and so on and so forth... by such or similar Negative attributes on that High Statesman Scholar.!

Not only...he could CONVINCINGLY answer all the questions, oppositions and criticisms from his multi-pronged opponents...

..but also he could make one and all of them Silent... while facing his Counter-Questions.!

How.?...Their Conversation can be QUITE INTERESTING.. for anybody PRO OR ANTI VEGETARIAN.!

While Dr. Radhakrishnan was the Indian Ambassador in the then Soviet Union (USSR)...

..he participated in an International Conference followed by a Rich Dinner held at Moscow.

Amongst all the Global Diners.. about Seven Hundred... He was one and the only VEGETARIAN there..

..who strictly refused to Smoke, or take Alcohol or Non-Vegetarian Foods...

..but confined to only Vegetarian Foods (Exclusively prepared for that Sole exceptional Indian Diner.!)

Most of the participants were wondering and curious to know... how he alone was able to SURVIVE..

.. even in Russia... a country of EXTREME COLD WEATHER Conditions.!..

...by just living upon the... POOR FOOD.!... SICKMAN'S DIET.!

After the Feast, some of them approached him... and requested to clarify on their Doubts and Curiosities..

He consented for a friendly discussion.

Q: You being born in India, a Tropical country of only HOT-WEATHER... perhaps you find it suitable to live as the Exclusive Vegetarian there.

But do you feel the same sort of Vegetarian foods suit you always...

... even while in a foreign Nation of radically opposite weather-condition of extreme cold.?...

..which you were not used to.?

A: I feel QUITE ALL RIGHT here too... with the same sort of Food wherever I go.

Vegetarian Food is the apt and BEST FOR ME.. and suits me well... in all the various Weather-Conditions...

Here I have to point out one strange Weather- Phenomena of my Motherland india.

Many in the Western countries are thinking that India is a Tropical Country... But Factually it is Not...

...although situated in the midst of the Tropical Region.

In the whole world, India is the only country of COMPLEX-WEATHER of both the Extremities.!

India is very hot... when you are at Tar Desert of Rajasthan.. but Very Cold.. when you are in Himachal-Pradesh, Kashmir, Sikkim...

..No rains at Jaisalmer regions of Rajasthan... but the opposite case as the Heaviest Rainy in the world.. at Chirabunchi in Assam...

..Much Hilly-weather at Kashmir... but the Opposite Sea-Coast weather at the confluence of Three great seas at Kanyakumari.. Southern most tip of India.

Similarly in every respect of Humidity... or Heavy Floods in one, while Water-Scarcity in another... or Highly stormy vs. Serene... and so on...

...we can find different regions of contradictory Living-atmosphere...

... within the same One country India.

However there exist Indian Vegetarians too... in all these regions of Contradictory Weather- conditions...

...maintaing good health... in NO WAY LESSER than others.!

They are not confined to only the particular region of their birth and inhabitation.. like Eskimos..

...but they widely travel to various regions of the same Nation... and mingle with people at ease...

...without any problem on the Food of their choice.

Q: Why are you a Vegetarian.?

A: Three main reasons...

(1) God has created different sorts of Foods matching to every Specy of Lives on Earth...

... some of them as BORN NON-VEGETARIANS... while some others as BORN VEGETARIANS.

...but the MANKIND is a BORN VEGETARIAN only...

...intended to live upon Vegetarian Foods solely and EXCLUSIVELY.!

It is my Firm belief... beyond LEAST DOUBT...

(2) Man the Supreme birth on Earth... has No right to interfere with other Lives..

...especially to kill them.. just for the needs of his Stomach...

...which deed is UNDUE, UNFAIR, UNJUST, CRUEL and SELFISH.. against the God's Will, Intention and Scope of Earthly Life.

(3) For the supreme birth as Humans... the Greatest Mights endowed by Mankind are the Wisdom and Soul-Power.

These two greatest mights... which no ther creatures possess... must be protected, well- nourished and conserved...

...so as to ensure a MEANINGFUL LIFE... truly as the Supreme Birth.

For such a unique purpose... the so called SAATHWIC FOODS... VEGETARIAN VARIETIES.. are the only FITTEST category foods...

..because the Non-Vegetarian Foods although acceptable to the Human-bodily system...

..as an UNAVOIDABLE ALTERNATIVE...

... and it can render the due PHYSICAL nutrition for the Human-demands...

..it possesses a SIDE-EFFECT also... of developing and instigating ANIMAL QUALITIES in Man, who consumes NON VEGETARIAN Foods..

But it does not mean that all the Non-Vegetarians are of Animal-Qualities...

..but they are unnecessarily SWIMMING AGAINST the CURRENT.!

Q: You are eating Dairy products like Cow's Milk, Cheese,Yoghurt(Curd), Ghee etc. Do you consider them as Vegetarian.? ..

..since the Cow's Milk is only the TRANSFORMED BLOOD of the Cow.

A: Oh.! Then You mean all the Human-beings are just the Cannibals at our initial stage of Life as Babies...

...since we are brought up by our Human Mothers milk.?

Q: So the Food-stuff by killing the creatures which have Life.. you call them as Non-Vegetarian. Is it Not.?

If so... are you not killing the Vegetations... which too have Life.?

A: Oh.! This is an Age-old argument of Non-Vegetarians to support and defend their side...

Then according to you.. anything and everything on Earth can be called as Living-beings including Plants and Trees, Mountain and Water..

..we have to remember not only Philosophically but also Scientifically...

...that there are exists two categories of Earthly creations...

...as Jata-Vasthu (INANIMATE Objects or Articles / Lifeless creations).. like Stone, Sand, Mountain, Plants, Trees, Mud etc..

.. alongside a parallel category of Living-beings like Animals, Birds, Insects etc..

Q: Yes. But Science has proved that the Plants too have Life. Then how do you differentiate them as Lifeless Inanimate articles ( JATA-VASTHU.)?

For this Question... on the reply from Dr Radhakrishnan..

...they all became DUMB-FOUNDED.!

What was that Answer from that invincible Scholar to such a Wise Question?....

..Let us see.. next.
.

[Nichiro]

whether anyone agrees or not but this subject seems to go on and on and on...Bhale Pandya.

[Punnaimaran]

.
.
... some of them as BORN NON-VEGETARIANS... while some others as BORN VEGETARIANS.

...but the MANKIND is a BORN VEGETARIAN only...

...intended to live upon Vegetarian Foods solely and EXCLUSIVELY.!

It is my Firm belief... beyond LEAST DOUBT...

.

It is only his BELIEF and he is entitled to his.

I'm reminded of an incident which is said to have happened in the 50s. Dr. Radhakrishnan was the Chief Guest for a seminar in Loyola College, Chennai and was asked to deliver a lecture on Philosophy.

He started his lecture thus :

"Anything done against nature is a sin." Immediately a student in the first row stood up and told him, "Sir, then I start my day every morning committing a sin. I have a shave everyday !!"

Dr. Radhakrishnan, though a highly learned man, humbly accepted that he was wrong and thanked the student for having corrected him.

I have mentioned this incident to highlight that though he is a highly esteemed person, his BELIEFS cannot be taken as FACTS.

If my parents are Vegetarians I tend to BELIEVE that Vegetarianism is good for me and on the otherhand if my parents are Carnivorous, I tend to BELIEVE that both Veg and Non-Veg foods are good for me. There is nothing wrong in my belief, but to state it as a fact needs some scientific proof.

But in my OPINION Veg foods suit MY body condition.

[Nichiro]

The problem with Sri Sudhaamaji is that in his highly underlined or stressed words,he tries to establish or forces people to accept whatever he writes as TRUTH.

How does he know that Mankind is born vebetarian?
Did he interview Adi Manavs?

I am a vegetarian but I would not tom tom it to the world as the world has its own mind.

Nichiro

[Sudhaama]

.
FRIENDLY DISCUSSION.!.

Mutual-Exchange of Thoughts & KNOWLEDGE.!


The problem with Sri Sudhaamaji is that in his highly underlined or stressed words,he tries to establish or forces people to accept whatever he writes as TRUTH.

How does he know that Mankind is born vebetarian?
Did he interview Adi Manavs?

I am a vegetarian but I would not tom tom it to the world as the world has its own mind.

Nichiro

Dear Nichiro & Other Friends,

Let us imagine that we all... the TOTAL STRANGERS hailing from different nations are on a World-Tour as One Composite Team...

..while the most of us are the Intellectuals.!..

In between... we have some relaxing time... somewhere at a Garden or Sea Beach... where we all have assembled... to pass time.

Then what shall we do.?

Don't we try to spend the time meaningfully... TRUE to our Individual Stature as the Gentlemen of high Calibre.. INTELLECTUALS.?

Although I am not an Intellectual... I follow the Intellectuals only... and repeat their Thoughts and Knowledge to others...

.. like a Tape-Recorder... Nothing More nor different.

PROBLEM with me.?... Neither I am a Problem nor I cause a problem for others... Nor interested to be so.

Other than making all my Friends here... HAPPY WITH ME... I have no other Intentions.

My ONLY INTEREST is to make ONE AND ALL my Friends in this Forum...

..to GAIN maximum BENEFIT by means of this rare opportunity of Forum... in the Global perspective.

My Friends who have closely observed my approach can easily discern and IDENTIFY my Thoughts and Intention...

...in each and every Thread I participate and INITIATE...

...that my Outlook is invariably towards the GLOBAL HUMANITY... Advancement as the Supreme birth on Earth...

..in every Sphere through all the means, avenues and pursuits available to Mankind...

..to reach EACH AND EVERY INDIVIDUAL through-out the Global arena...

..True to the Tamil-Gospel... YAADHUM OORAE.! YAAVARUM KAELHIR.!!!

If anybody has misunderstood me so far... I request them to review on my varied postings and then advise me...

..if in anybody's opinion... I seem to be a Hypocryte.

I have just raised only a Question here... Not my PERSONAL BELIEF...

You can observe that the Poll-Question itself.. is OPEN-MINDED... and that the Vegetarian has been shown as the last Item.!

Mr Nichiro says... The World has got its own Mind

Does the World has.... ONLY ONE MIND.?

...No.. Billions of MINDS.!!!

My Intention is only to GAIN and spread USEFUL Knowledge to all...

... on both the sides... of a Common Topic!!!
.

[Punnaimaran]

The problem with Sri Sudhaamaji is that in his highly underlined or stressed words,he tries to establish or forces people to accept whatever he writes as TRUTH.

How does he know that Mankind is born vebetarian?
Did he interview Adi Manavs?

I am a vegetarian but I would not tom tom it to the world as the world has its own mind.

Nichiro

Dear Mr. Sudhama,

As highlighted by our friend Nichiro, I was also trying to tell you that your choice of words seems to be asserting your points as FACTS.

That was my only issue and nothing more than that. I had always appreciated your eagerness in sharing your knowledge with the younger generation.

Regards,
Punnaimaran

[Sudhaama]

The problem with Sri Sudhaamaji is that in his highly underlined or stressed words,he tries to establish or forces people to accept whatever he writes as TRUTH.

How does he know that Mankind is born vebetarian?
Did he interview Adi Manavs?

I am a vegetarian but I would not tom tom it to the world as the world has its own mind.

Nichiro

Dear Mr. Sudhama,

As highlighted by our friend Nichiro, I was also trying to tell you that your choice of words seems to be asserting your points as FACTS.

That was my only issue and nothing more than that. I had always appreciated your eagerness in sharing your knowledge with the younger generation.

Regards,
Punnaimaran

May be... it appears so ..to others.!

I reiterate the same Emphasis... what the GREAT... Global Intellectuals of various spheres... have CATEGORICALLY ASSERTED after their personal close analysis.

And such dignitaries were INITIALLY NON-VEGETARIANS... but converted to Vegetarian

They are the Globally famous dignitaries from different Fields... whose words cannot be taken light.

Such as the renowned Scientist Dr Albert Einstein...

...Medical Research Scholar and Founder of the Homeopathic System, Dr Hanheman...

...English Writer Dr. George Bernard Shaw...

...the Scientist turned President of India, Dr. Abdul Kalam.

In fact.. I anticipate COUNTER-EMPHASIS... towards the other side...

..such that we all can learn the other side too.!.. Better.!!
.

[Nichiro]

Mr. Sudhaama seems to overlook millions of Jains who are strict vegetarians and repeats for n number of times big names of GBS or Abdul Kalaam or Al Einstein etc.
Such nameing does not prove anything Mr. Sudhaama.
You have your beliefs stating that MANKIND IS BORN VEGETARIAN. You state it is as if it is PROVED , QED.etc.
This is incorrect.

Mankind is omnivorous and will remain so.

[Sudhaama]

.

Mr. Sudhaama seems to overlook millions of Jains who are strict vegetarians and repeats for n number of times big names of GBS or Abdul Kalaam or Al Einstein etc.
Such nameing does not prove anything Mr. Sudhaama.
You have your beliefs stating that MANKIND IS BORN VEGETARIAN. You state it is as if it is PROVED , QED.etc.
This is incorrect.

Mankind is omnivorous and will remain so.

I wonder... in spite of my so much detailed clarifications...

..how and why I am MISUNDERSTOOD.

Dear Mr. Nichro... Your comment is far away... from my Sense of presentation and approach on the matter.

I am unable to understand why any part of the Society... who are BORN AND BROUGHT UP... as Vegetarians...

..is raised here.

Under the list of the Dignitaries in favour of Vegetarian-food... I have NOT QUOTED... Dr Radhakrishnan...

..because he was NOT A CONVERT...

Whereas... all the dignitaries I have Quoted are the Self-made Converts to Vegetarian-category...

..backed by their own self-analysis and judgement.

Here I clarify and confirm my stand already highlighted... several times before.

(1) The Scope and Intention of this Thread is ...NOT TO CONVERT... any Non-Vegetarian into Vegetarian. ..

..but to only bring out and Convey the True News behind the Subject.

(2) I have already clarified that the Choice of Food... is One's own Taste and personal freedom...

...and everybody has to decide oneself... which is the best of Food for himself / herself.

(3) It is the Fact... that the Majority of the Global Society were / are Non-Vegetarians..

...which Reality can NEVER BE CHANGED.

It will continue so in future too... perhaps to more and more of N.V.

(4) Similar to the list of Dignitaries who were born and brought up as NV got converted by themselves as Veg. and are recommending to Humanity...

...that they are convinced to declare... Mankind as the Born-Vegetarians...

..I am anxious to have another list of Dignitaries... who were born and brought up as Vegetarians..

..but got converted as NV... of their own accord...

..and ASSERT that the ..."Mankind are born NON-VEGETARIANS.?...

Can anybody let me have such a Counter-list.? I am interested to add up to my knowledge.

Let us all know the Facts ... on BOTH THE SIDES.!
.

[MrIndia]

Sudhaamaa..
Neenga ivalo type panrathuku bathila..

Veg is gud for health... please try to avoid non-veg

apidinu sollirukalaam :)

I am also trying to avoid Non-veg, of course for different reason..
but buffet mothu automatic-a chilli chicken eduthudraen instead of gobi manchurian..

trying hard to avoid non-veg.. :(

[Nichiro]

Our Lord Rama was a non vegetarian or vegetarian sri Sudhaamaji?

[Sudhaama]

.
Valluvar & Vallalaar too.!. insist on Vegetarian Foods.!!.


Our Lord Rama was a non vegetarian or vegetarian sri Sudhaamaji?

In Kamba Ramayana.. Guha-Padalam... Guha the Boatman says to Rama..

...Thaenum Meenum thiruthi Konarndhaen ( I brought you this Food... Fish and Honey)...

..but Rama took up only the Honey, Fruits and Vegetables.

On the whole... according to Valmiki Ramayana and also Kamba-Ramayana...

..Rama was a SUDDHA-SATHWA... which implies as VEGETARIAN...

...as attributed by all the Rishis, Seers, Gurus and Kings... as well as the People.

. Vegetarian Foods alone is considered as the SAATHWIC Foods...

..developing the INNATE Propensities (Tendenies of Qualities) of Human-Values...

..resulting in Calm approach and balanced Considerations...

..ensuring Humanly decisions... the best and wise as can be approved by the Society...

... as also constant PEACE OF MIND...

...Free from Animal tendencies and Evil attitudes like Jealousy, Cruelty, Anger, Vengeance, Sadism..

But fortifying the inborn potentialities... towards the best possible standard of

...Well Co-ordinatory Mind with Wisdom.

.Valluvar and Vallalaar Ramalinga Swamy emphasise the indispensability of Vegetarian Foods... for any Human...

...only to ensure conservancy of Human-Values..

...culminating towards the apt and Best -Life on Earth...

...true to its sense and purpose as Human.!!!
.

[P_R]

Since the very beginning the thread has been, IMO, mired in confusion.
Is this thread trying to detail the merits of vegetarianism ? That is certainly not what the title seems to imply. The claim that mankind is "born vegetarian" was roundly rejected by Badri (http://www.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?p=1184272#1184272) several months back. That was perhaps the one of the few posts exactly relevant to the topic. It remains unanswered and that pretty much closed the debate on the topic.


On the whole... according to Valmiki Ramayana and also Kamba-Ramayana...
..Rama was a SUDDHA-SATHWA... which implies as VEGETARIAN...
In an earlier post Badri had pre-empted and dismissed this claim.

The instances of Rama, Sita and Lakshmana eating deer are too numerous to even list them down. Sita promises Ganga pots of meat and liquour (sura) if they returned safely back from exile.
While I have not read the Ramayanam texts I am given to understand that meat eating was a widely prevalent practice and even Valmiki's Rama was no exception to it. Here is a link (http://hindtoday.com/Blogs/ViewBlogsV2.aspx?HTAdvtId=1488&HTAdvtPlaceCode=IND) which quotes the texts from Valmiki Ramayana which refer to Rama's meat eating. I invite those who know Sanskrit to endorse or contest the translation.

Anyway, I don't see how Rama's dietary preferences make a point for or against the argument that mankind was born vegetarian.

[Vivasaayi]

sudhaama...do u insist on vegetarian food or u try to prove that man was born vegetarian and later started eating meat :?

[Vivasaayi]

Same here, Dev.

Here are some more points, in case they havent been made already. If they have been, then apologies for repeating them.

Biologically, our body is made to eat meat. For instance, we don't have any enzymes to digest cellulose, which is the primary structural component of plants. Animals lack it too, but herbivores compensate for it by having symbiotic bacteria to digest it for them; we lack even that and cellulose is simply indigestible for humans!

There are other indications too - most herbivores have eyes to the side of the head, which helps them have a wider range of vision ot avoid predators, while predators have eyes in the front which gives them stereoscopic vision and provide depth required to gauge distances.

Our canines, the length and structure of our intestines also show that while not strictly carnivorous, we are probably more suited to be omnivores. Our closest cousin in the wild is the chimpanzee, which is by and large "vegetarian" although quite well and capable of hunting and eating flesh.

As I said, although I am vegetarian and there are many arguments for being vegetarian, all of which I fully endorse, I cannot stand such nonsensical and scientifically, culturally incorrect statements that mankind is born vegetarian.

Being vegetarian is purely choice, just as wearing clothes is. And while there are damn good reason for both, we are not born wearing clothes!

:clap:

excellent post...i came to this thread with eagerness of finding these types of information...thanks pr

[Vivasaayi]

every other animals eat the food rawly!

could human digestive system digest the uncooked flesh?

[app_engine]

Sudhaamaji, the answer to your question can probably be easy to get if another question is answered- whether mankind was a direct creation from God or whether it "evolved" from other forms of life.

If created by God, the answer can be found in the holy books - because the creator would have informed them what to eat and what not (regardless of whether the human body is today capable of handling NV or not):-)

If otherwise, there has to be a detailed study as to who was the predecessor / the food choice of that species / what organs evolved different in human from the predecessor etc.

முதல்ல அந்தக்கேள்விக்கு பதில் தேவை - மனிதன் கடவுளால் படைக்கப்பட்டானா அல்லது பரிணாமத்தின் விளைவா? என்ன சொல்றீங்க?

[Nichiro]

Actually this thread has become a dead horse which is being flogged every now and then by our erstwhile friend .
Why not open another thread in food section Mr. Sudhaama and please start writing (without emphasizing/capital bold letters . about nutritive values of each dish?
That would be better.
Otherwise , this thread ,now it seems as vithanda vadam.

[Sudhaama]

.
My Dear Friends,

I am unable to understand... why some of you are getting EMOTIONAL.?..

..After all this is a FRIENDLY DISCUSSION... Mutual-exchange of Thoughts and Knowledge.
Most of you... it seems... are not keeping in touch with the trend and relevance of the turns of the Topic...

..but suddenly REACT... just on the latest postings ONLY.!

None of us here are DECRYING the others Tastes, Decisions and Preferences.

And this Thread does not mean... Pro or Anti Non-Veg... Nor Veg.

Nor I am ADVOCATING VEGETARIANISM.. But.?

I have just raised an Open-minded Question... with equal Importance to both the Categories...

You can judge yourselves why I have given the last preference to Vegetarian foods... in the Poll.?

I have just raised a Question to my self...

...which I am trying to find out an answer

And the same question... I am extending to you... inviting you to put forth your thoughts...

...as a reply to this Common Question... to YOU AND ME.!

That is all the Concept... behind this Thread, based on Open-minded Reasoning.

Whatever I put forth here are not just my Opinions or Inference...

...but the Facts based on the Reports from the International Vegetarian Congress...

..Coupled with Practical-Knowledge as reported by several dignitaries...

..plus the Scholarly views from noteworthy personalities.

Now on some of the points raised specifically I must reply... In brief.. for the present.

(1) Lord Rama was a Vegetarian.?

Yes. I have already answered this Question.

This Question was raised earlier too... on which my friend Mr. Badri had put forth quite interesting and Valid Counter- points to assert according to Valmiki Ramayana...

...Rama being a Kshathriya practiced his life... as a Non-Vegetarian.

For this point I had already replied as..

...how and why on the instigation of some Bouddha- Kings of yester-years...

... the Moola Ramayana Text was meddled with and concocted by changing the Sanskrit terminologies to mean...

...that the Hindu Scriptures are Self-contradictory.. inconsistent

(2) Digestive systems of Mankind :

Mr Badri had raised an interesting Counter-point... Opposing my stand put forth before.

The International Vegetarian Congress totally disagrees with this Scientific claim of Mr Badri...

...and the Scientific- dispute amongst the Medical Scholars still continues so far.

We must remember one Reality... that an Internationally famous Medical Research Scholar... and Founder of Homeopathy System...

...Dr. Hanheman who was born and brought up as Non-Vegetarian... converted himself voluntarily... as VEGETARIAN...

...wholly supporting the stand taken by the International Vegetarian Congress.!

On one Scientific factor... all the Medical Experts agree... without dispute...

...on the Comparative factors of Mouth of all the Living-beings..

By Nature some Creatures are Born-Non-Vegetarians while the other Creatures are Born Vegetarians.

Accordingly their Physical features alongside the Digestive system and Capacity of assimilation have been standardised by birth..

..as the Biological order of Nature.

Amongst these two Broad categories... the factor starts from the Entry point of Mouth itself...

... so to mean...the Teeth and Saliva.

All the Born-Veg Specy of Creatures... for example: Cow.. the Saliva... is of ALKALI type...

..while the Born Non-Veg Specy of Creatures.. for example: Dog.. the Saliva is ACIDIC...

Human Saliva... is Alkali... Not Acidic.!
.

[Nichiro]

Dear Mr. Sudhaama,

Either you do not know much of mammal biology or you are just repeating or cut pasting what you read on net.
To confront you, I am posting this piece of information as under,(gleaned from net)



"Objectives/Goals
To determine if pH levels in the saliva of various animals and humans change at different times of the
day.
Methods/Materials
Six humans, four dogs, and four cats were used in testing the pH of their salvia. All of the subjects pH
levels were tested every three hours, beginning at 8:00 A.M. and ending at 8:00 P.M. I repeated my
experiment twice on two separate days. The various animals and humans were tested two times using
this method.
Results
The average pH level in the salvia of humans was about neutral, pH of 7. While dogs and cats had pH
levels that were a bit higher, therefore meaning less acid was detected in their salvia. I did discover not
discover a strong trend with any of my subjects results. The pH levels in various animals and humans did
change at different times of the day.
Conclusions/Discussion
My results did support my hypothesis, pH levels in various humans and animals do change at different
times of the day. The human#s pH levels seemed to increase in the morning and level out in the
afternoon, once again rising in the evening. Dog#s pH levels seemed to have a steady downward trend as
the day went on. Cat#s pH levels on the other hand bounced around throughout the day. The difference
between human#s pH levels and dogs and cats pH levels was humans were mostly neutral, while dogs and
cats contained less acid in their saliva. I measure in whole increments. If I were to repeat this experiment
for a third time I would use a pH meter"

So you see Mr. Sudhaama, there goes your saliva argument under the bridge.

By the way, Bats are both herbivorous(fructivorous) and blood suckers.

Speaking about your arguement about lord Rama, you conveniently say that "Because Rama was a Kshatriya, he took meat" etc.

Any what proof you have that Ramayana was meddled with and re written?

If you are interested in knowing two sides of a coin, you have already posted a lot of info and a lot of counter points were posted which were nothing less than really rationally scientific.(Badri , Rohit et al)

Better bring this thread to a conclusion and bury the dead horse.

By the way, if you are interested to know more on Saliva thing, please google for it.

Nichiro

[Badri]

Here's some stuff from the internet...you can do a search for this if you want..


"We obviously are not carnivores, but we are equally obviously not strict vegetarians, if you carefully examine the anatomical, physiological and fossil evidence," says McArdle, executive director of the Alternatives Research and Development Foundation in Eden Prairie, Minnesota.

According to a 1999 article in the journal The Ecologist, several of our physiological features "clearly indicate a design" for eating meat, including "our stomach's production of hydrochloric acid, something not found in herbivores. Furthermore, the human pancreas manufactures a full range of digestive enzymes to handle a wide variety of foods, both animal and vegetable.

"While humans may have longer intestines than animal carnivores, they are not as long as herbivores'; nor do we possess multiple stomachs like many herbivores, nor do we chew cud," the magazine adds. "Our physiology definitely indicates a mixed feeder."

If people were designed to be strict vegetarians, McArdle expects we would have a specialized colon, specialized teeth and a stomach that doesn't have a generalized pH-all the better to handle roughage. Tom Billings, a vegetarian for three decades and site editor of BeyondVeg.com, believes humans are natural omnivores. Helping prove it, he says, is the fact that people have a low synthesis rate of the fatty acid DHA and of taurine, suggesting our early ancestors relied on animal foods to get these nutrients. Vitamin B-12, also, isn't reliably found in plants. That, Billings says, left "animal foods as the reliable source during evolution."

History argues in favor of the omnivore argument, considering that humans have eaten meat for 2.5 million years or more, according to fossil evidence. Indeed, when researchers examined the chemical makeup of the teeth of an early African hominid that lived in woodlands three million years ago, they expected to learn that our ancestor lived on fruits and leaves. "But the isotopic clues show that it ate a varied diet, including either grassland plants or animals that themselves fed on grasses," reported the journal Science in 1999.

[Sudhaama]

.
SCIENTIFIC Quote:

"It is not part of our Physiology, Biology, or Genetics..

... to eat to MEAT.!!".

[tscii:34a5ca0a09]
Here's some stuff from the internet...you can do a search for this if you want..


"We obviously are not carnivores, but we are equally obviously not strict vegetarians, if you carefully examine the anatomical, physiological and fossil evidence," says McArdle, executive director of the Alternatives Research and Development Foundation in Eden Prairie, Minnesota.

According to a 1999 article in the journal The Ecologist, several of our physiological features "clearly indicate a design" for eating meat, including "our stomach's production of hydrochloric acid, something not found in herbivores. Furthermore, the human pancreas manufactures a full range of digestive enzymes to handle a wide variety of foods, both animal and vegetable.

"While humans may have longer intestines than animal carnivores, they are not as long as herbivores'; nor do we possess multiple stomachs like many herbivores, nor do we chew cud," the magazine adds. "Our physiology definitely indicates a mixed feeder."

If people were designed to be strict vegetarians, McArdle expects we would have a specialized colon, specialized teeth and a stomach that doesn't have a generalized pH-all the better to handle roughage. Tom Billings, a vegetarian for three decades and site editor of BeyondVeg.com, believes humans are natural omnivores. Helping prove it, he says, is the fact that people have a low synthesis rate of the fatty acid DHA and of taurine, suggesting our early ancestors relied on animal foods to get these nutrients. Vitamin B-12, also, isn't reliably found in plants. That, Billings says, left "animal foods as the reliable source during evolution."

History argues in favor of the omnivore argument, considering that humans have eaten meat for 2.5 million years or more, according to fossil evidence. Indeed, when researchers examined the chemical makeup of the teeth of an early African hominid that lived in woodlands three million years ago, they expected to learn that our ancestor lived on fruits and leaves. "But the isotopic clues show that it ate a varied diet, including either grassland plants or animals that themselves fed on grasses," reported the journal Science in 1999.

Extracts from Internet - JUST REPRODUCED : ECO-EATING:

“Catalysts for chemical reactions in the body, enzymes are protein-based substances that bind with chemicals in the body, promoting and speeding the rate of biological reactions”, writes Elisabeth Hsu-LeBlanc.

There are three major categories of digestive enzymes, each of which aid in the proper digestion of food; enzymes also stimulate the brain, provide energy for our cells, and repair tissue and organ damage.

The three major enzyme categories are amylases (for carbohydrates), proteases (for proteins), and lipases (for fats).

Eating meat can create enzyme imbalances in the body.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Early humans were the hunted, not the hunters, eating only plant-based foods.

Avoiding predators, and also not being one, humans further developed their brains as well as their social and cultural techniques of socialization, cooperation, and innovation.

Whether back then or now, our teeth, saliva, and intestines, for example, are not designed for meat consumption.

Humans are natural herbivores with the capacity to be omnivores; we are certainly not carnivores.

Only after the discovery of fire was meat eating even possible.

While many people and cultures have incorporated meat into their diets,

...it is still not part of our physiology, biology, or genetics to eat to meat..
.
[/tscii:34a5ca0a09]

[Nichiro]

Dear Mr.Sudhaama,

You have asked,

"In that Biological consideration... where does the Man fit in out of these Two..?

... or a Special Category unlike any other Creature...similar to Ant-Eater... which eats only Ants and Bees ... and its Body-Mechanism is quite apt for such unique Food for it.

Scientifically speaking.... Is Man .... a Born-Vegetarian ? ... Or...

...Non-Vegetarian ? If Yes... Why the Sub-Categories of Taboo?..

or.. Suited to Both the Type of Foods ...?.... How ?... Why?

I beg you literally to go through all pro and anti discussions on this thread.
Man is an Omnivour animal.As Badri has posted, man's body is most adaptive body and this is why man has survived and grown.Why do you want to alter nature?
Please understand that.
Leave the mankind to decide as to what they want to eat or not eat.
There is no use going on and on and on and on and on.....
Oru poi ayiram dhaduvai sonnal unmaey aaghaadhe.

Nichiro

[Sudhaama]

.
.Welcome to... SMILE.!!!..or.. LAUGH.!.. ???

Dear Friends,

In this Thread... we all are delivering here... enough Substances...

..either to SMILE.. on the beautiful Mutual Exchange of Thoughts and Knowledge...

..on One of the Basic and Common Subject in Life... FOOD-VALUES.!

...Or.. to LAUGH at me...or on my Thoughts and Knowledge..

..as You may feel proper.!


Dear Mr.Sudhaama,

You have asked,

"In that Biological consideration... where does the Man fit in out of these Two..?

... or a Special Category unlike any other Creature...similar to Ant-Eater... which eats only Ants and Bees ... and its Body-Mechanism is quite apt for such unique Food for it.

Scientifically speaking.... Is Man .... a Born-Vegetarian ? ... Or...

...Non-Vegetarian ? If Yes... Why the Sub-Categories of Taboo?..

or.. Suited to Both the Type of Foods ...?.... How ?... Why?

I beg you literally to go through all pro and anti discussions on this thread.
Man is an Omnivour animal.As Badri has posted, man's body is most adaptive body and this is why man has survived and grown.Why do you want to alter nature?
Please understand that.
Leave the mankind to decide as to what they want to eat or not eat.
There is no use going on and on and on and on and on.....
Oru poi ayiram dhaduvai sonnal unmaey aaghaadhe.

Nichiro

Dear Mr. Nichiro,

Please understand... my intention and object of participation in this Hub Forum...is...

..to contribute within my might...by enrichment of our Forum as highly as possible...

...towards LIFE-VALUES in different aspects...

...under the Modern context of the Contemporary World-Society.

This is one of such interesting subject of Common concern for all.

My Aim and Goal are... to make our Hub as the most Emulative and Exemplary one...

..in EVERY ASPECT... amongst the various Similar Online Web-sites available.

..catering to the Multifareous Demands, Tastes and Interests of the Viewers...

...amongst our Global Mosaic Society.

How far I am correct to say so.? You are invited to satisfy yourselves... by verifying several sorts of New Threads I have initiated under different sections..

..but I am not able participate actively in all...

...since I am so VERY TIGHT-TIMED.

However I am eagerly looking forward towards my other Friends worthy participation in all such Threads.

In spite of all my such a Tight time... I am predominantly active in this Thread Why.?

Because this is a RARE SUBJECT... many are not aware of the RICH KNOWLEDGE behind.

But I am surprised to note... that instead of appreciating and encouraging my participation...

...You are advising me or requesting me... REPEATEDLY.(!).. to discontinue this Thread.?

Why You are DISCOURAGING and IRRITATING me often.?.. Blocking my way.?

I have high regard for you, Dear Mr Nichiro.

I request you to post whatever you feel proper in your opinion...

..either Pro or Anti... to my presentations... Welcome.

...and then leave off the matter.

After all this is an Open-Forum... of Public interest and concern..

If You are NOT INTERESTED IN MY PARTICIPATION... please keep off...

...but please DO NOT DISCOURAGE ME ANYMORE..!

Enough You have said... again and again... on Your same thoughts of dislike on my postings.!

In conclusion... there are only Two Options I offer You here...

.. in a FRIENDLY SPIRIT, Dear Mr Nichiro,...

You are Welcome to either SMILE... on the whole Topic...

..Or LAUGH AT ME... and my Postings.. as You may feel proper.!
.

[Nichiro]

Dear Mr. Sudhaama,

Would you care to look at the results of your poll once again?
People have voted and the result is there for all to see.
Everyone has voted and maximum votes are for man as omnivourous animal.
So why go on and on trying to convert people to vegetarianism?
If you want to go on and on and on, it is your prerogative.
But I will not keep off as it is a democracy.

Just read mine and Badri's comments about saliva and digestive sysstems.
For everything you post, there is a counter info available.
What are you trying to achieve?
Better use your vast knowledge in Food thread by giving advice about nutrition.
Nichiro

[Sudhaama]

.
.Welcome to OPPOSE and CRITICISE.!


Dear Mr. Sudhaama,

Would you care to look at the results of your poll once again?
People have voted and the result is there for all to see.
Everyone has voted and maximum votes are for man as omnivourous animal.
So why go on and on trying to convert people to vegetarianism?
If you want to go on and on and on, it is your prerogative.
But I will not keep off as it is a democracy.

Just read mine and Badri's comments about saliva and digestive sysstems.
For everything you post, there is a counter info available.
What are you trying to achieve?
Better use your vast knowledge in Food thread by giving advice about nutrition.
Nichiro

Dear Mr Nichiro,

I am closely watching the trend... and understand each and every posting of my friends..

...Pro or Anti to the sense of my postings

In fact, I will NOT BE HAPPY... if you or anybody keep off..

...just because of DISAGREEMENT with my stand.

Please see my last post once again... where I have invited you to continue posting whatever you feel proper.

My only concern is...

(1) PLEASE DON'T ASK ME TO DISCONTINUE this Thread.

(2) As You rightly say.. it is Democracy... to allow contrary views Thoughts and Knowledge...

.. mutually exchanged amongst Friends... as a matter of Healthy discussion.

So anybody... including me... should not get perturbed on...

... hearing the disagreement on one's Views and Knowledge

Indeed, You or anybody's Opposition and Disagreement with my stand...

..MAKES ME STRONGER.!... and More Enthusiastic.!!!

Because I GAIN more opportunities... to analyse deeper and describe under different aspects and approaches.

So I am HAPPY to know your Criticisms. Welcome.!.. Thank You.!
.

[Sudhaama]

.
Deleted.
.

[Nichiro]

Dear Mr. Sudhaama,

Have you any experience of having Non vegetarian food?
I firmly believe that unless you have had an experience of anything, you cannot form a correct opinion to write either for or aginst the subject.

By the way,to continue the topic, you have reposted Mr. Iqubal vora's posting.This is not good.

Nichiro

[Sudhaama]

.
.Hats Off.! Mr Iqbal Vora for BOLDLY revealing

...Your Personal Experience... Analytically.!

...followed by Your Firm SCIENTIFIC Decision.

I am eagerly searching for anyone on the other side who can assert the Contrary...

... and justify why he converted from Veg to Non-Veg.!

We all learn from our Friends Experiences also.


Dear Mr. Sudhama,

Wish introduce myself . I am IqbalVora from Godhra . Basically a Gujarathi born and brought up in Ahmedabad .
Since childhood, I have been used to eating Non-vegetarian food. Besides, our religion also indirectly permits this.
However, I realized the virtues of being a Vegetarian by the age of 25 year. Believe me, I have totally stopped eating Non-veg. And even egg, I am trying to avoid ( though its a bit unavoidable as its being used extentively on cakes , icecreams etc which have become a common man's eatery now )
Even during Ramzan / ID , generally Muslims celebrate , breaking the fast by eating non-veg. But I am totally determined now to shun NOn-veg. So, even during these occasions , I am totally a vegetarian now. However, my family continues to remain non-veg eaters ( I mean my elders and peers ). As regards my children, I am educating them with the virtues of being a vegetarian on humanitarian grounds and also on ethical values. I hope I will make my children / next generation also totally vegetarian.
Wish to share with you all, my personal experience after converting myself to Vegetarianism :
1. I was over arrogant / rude / violent during the early 20s. I have become more matured, diplomatic, restrained, and controlled in expressing myself.
2. During my non-veg years, I will even think of eleminating someone who was totally against my views. Rather I was a radical guy but thanks to vegetarianism, I am totally a Gandhain to say now ! How I got transformed to such a level, only Allah can answer this mystery.
3. WHenver I meet my school/ college friends, I share this changed concept of my life with them . Some took it in right spirits but others said that I got influenced by some philosophy or school of thought. I told them that I am persoanally experiencing a laterial change in my life
4. My own body mechanism has changed drastically ! This has also been proved by Science I believe. I am more relaxed, able to solve office / business problems with much ease , able to withstand more pressures and above all, able to sleep peacefully without getting the knightmares of having eaten some living being ( harmless )

Yes, I will also vouch for your writings on Vegetarianism. Insha Alla, I will be able to convince more human beings on the virtues of Vegetarianism. Your articles here will be the guiding force to me .
Thank you sir.

Regards

IqbalVora
.

[Nichiro]

Dear Mr. Sudhaama,

Have you any experience of having Non vegetarian food?
I firmly believe that unless you have had an experience of anything, you cannot form a correct opinion to write either for or aginst the subject.

By the way,to continue the topic, you have reposted Mr. Iqubal vora's posting.This is not good.
Nichiro

[Sudhaama]

.
. APT Food is decided on WHAT BASIS.?


Dear Mr. Sudhaama,

Have you any experience of having Non vegetarian food?

I firmly believe that unless you have had an experience of anything, you cannot form a correct opinion to write either for or aginst the subject.
Nichiro

In continuation of my earlier posting on Dr. Radhakrishnan.. Ex. President of India.

Question: Dr. Rad You are a Vegetarian, because you are brought up so.

We believe that if you taste and try the other sorts of Foods also... so to say Non-Veg. sorts, you will find it better and more delicious.

So we all recommend Non-veg foods.. to you, as well as to anybody...

..as the BETTER ONE amongst the two options...

..because we have tried both the Options and could eventually form a clear impression...

... alongside the Comparative pictures in totality... resulting in the best process of adjudgement.

Why don't you try... before deciding to avoid it.?

RK: Well. Indeed I believe from your statements... that some of the Non-Veg dishes are MORE DELCIOUS than any Veg dish.

But even amongst you all the Non-Vegetarians... there are Japanese who feel sea-foods more delicious

..which are rejected by some of the other NV people... even without tasting it.?

The Chinese specialities are mostly made from Insects.! Does not some of you refuse even to taste it.?...

So is the case with Turtles the National dish of the island nation Moretius...

The same argument what you made with me... can it lure all the Non-Veg. eaters...

...to try another dish- variety of the same NV Group?

Why do some of you refuse even to try the same group of NON-VEG dish just once.?

Cannibals say the most delicious food in the world is... Human-flesh.?

Do we try it.?

So any food is not decided... after PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE on eating by own self Only...

...But by several other factors of Knowledge and Wisdom...

..Differing from person to person.

Do you decide your Foods based on Taste only.?

There are NO OTHER FACTORS more relevant as the Basis.?




By the way,to continue the topic, you have reposted Mr. Iqubal vora's posting.This is not good.
Nichiro

Yes.. Similar to you and others... including me... we develop from one point to the next point...

...which I have raised here.


.
.Hats Off.! Mr Iqbal Vora for BOLDLY revealing

...Your Personal Experience... Analytically.!

...followed by Your Firm SCIENTIFIC Decision.

I am eagerly searching for anyone on the other side who can assert the Contrary...

... and justify why he converted from Veg to Non-Veg.!

We all learn from our Friends Experiences also.


Dear Mr. Sudhama,

Wish introduce myself . I am IqbalVora from Godhra . Basically a Gujarathi born and brought up in Ahmedabad .
Since childhood, I have been used to eating Non-vegetarian food. Besides, our religion also indirectly permits this.
However, I realized the virtues of being a Vegetarian by the age of 25 year. Believe me, I have totally stopped eating Non-veg. And even egg, I am trying to avoid ( though its a bit unavoidable as its being used extentively on cakes , icecreams etc which have become a common man's eatery now )
Even during Ramzan / ID , generally Muslims celebrate , breaking the fast by eating non-veg. But I am totally determined now to shun NOn-veg. So, even during these occasions , I am totally a vegetarian now. However, my family continues to remain non-veg eaters ( I mean my elders and peers ). As regards my children, I am educating them with the virtues of being a vegetarian on humanitarian grounds and also on ethical values. I hope I will make my children / next generation also totally vegetarian.
Wish to share with you all, my personal experience after converting myself to Vegetarianism :
1. I was over arrogant / rude / violent during the early 20s. I have become more matured, diplomatic, restrained, and controlled in expressing myself.
2. During my non-veg years, I will even think of eleminating someone who was totally against my views. Rather I was a radical guy but thanks to vegetarianism, I am totally a Gandhain to say now ! How I got transformed to such a level, only Allah can answer this mystery.
3. WHenver I meet my school/ college friends, I share this changed concept of my life with them . Some took it in right spirits but others said that I got influenced by some philosophy or school of thought. I told them that I am persoanally experiencing a laterial change in my life
4. My own body mechanism has changed drastically ! This has also been proved by Science I believe. I am more relaxed, able to solve office / business problems with much ease , able to withstand more pressures and above all, able to sleep peacefully without getting the knightmares of having eaten some living being ( harmless )

Yes, I will also vouch for your writings on Vegetarianism. Insha Alla, I will be able to convince more human beings on the virtues of Vegetarianism. Your articles here will be the guiding force to me .
Thank you sir.

Regards

IqbalVora
.
.
.

[Nichiro]

Mr. Sudhaama,

Just stick to my question.
Do not reel off other's experiences and do not go at tangents.
In plain language, just tell us if you have ever partaken non vegetarian food?
If not, then all your writing against or for food habits is pure bullshit.

You do not even know about chinese food.
Chinese do not eat only insects.
Japanese do take a lot of seafood but seafood is not their staple food.

Again I am asking you as to why you go on reposting old replies?
You, at any cost, want to keep this dead horse in news.

I would definately love to participate in a forum where varied subjects are discussed.
But I think you have certain pet subjects which you keep alive by any means.

All your arguements have fallen flat, like saliva, digestive system, mammals, elephants diets and what not.
Every stage you have posted half truths or pure incorrect informations.
Just why don't you accept the facts and take rest?

Why not take better subject like human migration from Africa or Russian migration to India etc?
Why not touch subjects like Tamil maritime exploits ?

This subjects is really very stale now.

Nichiro

[Sudhaama]

.
Dear Mr. Nichiro,

No personal Questions... please.

You are free to agree or disagree with me...

...as also, may come to any conclusion and Comment on my postings...

...as you like... BULL-SHIT or NON-SENSE or Foolish.

I am not going to react to such Emotional Out-bursts.!

Those who are interested may continue to participate here.

I am an unusual Man.. in the present day World.!

As I have already informed...

...the MORE I AM ATTACKED...

...I BECOME STRONGER AND STRONGER...

...coupled with more Enthusiasm.


To Urmila, Sudhaama, Lamby and all.

For 5 years after I became a Hindu (Some say I was always a Hindu and ask what do I mean by "became"?), I still ate meat. The days I went to the temple and the days before and after going, I avoided these things. But otherwise, I ate meat. Many Hindus had guided me and encouraged me to become a vegitarian (Though some have told me that there is no need to.) I read many lituratures from many Hindu traditions and Gurus such as Sri Karunamayi (my Guru), Sri Sathya Sai Baba, Sivaya Subramuniaswami and Sri Prabhupada all of which extolled the glories of vegitarianism. Sivaya Subramuniyaswami one had stated in one of his books "Loving Ganesha" that Lord Ganesha even will accept prayers offered by those who eat meat, eggs and fish, then he goes on to say that through the infinite Grace of Lord Ganesha, these people who eat the afore mentioned items, (meat, fish, and eggs) will eventually become vegitarians. ;)

In late 1999, I did try it out for a few days, but it did not work out for me. I then decided that I will eat only veg. whenever I go to the temple. And this worked. But in 1998 and 1999(the year I first attempted becoming a vegitarian), I would get occasional bouts of depression/sadness/discust due to eating meat. :( I started to really not like the idea of eating meat. I enjoyed the taste of meat, but, I thought it would be better if I became a vegitarian.

In 2000 and 2001, I, like many others around the world started getting reports in newpapers and on the news programs about thing suich as "mad cow" and "foot and mouth" diseases. Then in early 2002, when I strted planning for my shift to Edmonton (I shifted to Edmonton in April 2003), I decided that I wanted to and will become a vegitarian and vowed to do so by the summer that year. And one day in June 2002, I stopped eating meat and fish and I stopped eating eggs in November 2003 just months after I shifted to Edmonton. For a long time, I was tempted to eat meat and tried taking my vegitarianism as far as avoiding thing which had egg in them, but found very difficult to do.

But now by the compassionate Grace of my Guru and Spiritual Mother, Sri Karunamayi, I have been able to completely abstain from meat, fish and eggs have no desire to eat these things again.

I have found like many others here, that a vegitarian diet is far healthier than a non vegitarian diet. While I do not hold it against those who continue to take a non vegitarian diet, I am fully aware of the benifits of a vegitarian diet.

Dear "Skanthan".

Sorry for the delay in my reply.

All those who converted from Non-Veg. to Veg. have EMPHATICALLY commented the same as you have narrated your experience.

Veg foods develop our Positive Healthy attitudes fast.

...especially PEACE OF MIND and TOLERANCE of Adversities.
.

[Nichiro]

Dear Mr. Sudhaama,

You have already admitted in your own words many facts which I am reposting as follows.

"QUOTE"

Here I clarify and confirm my stand already highlighted... several times before.

(1) The Scope and Intention of this Thread is ...NOT TO CONVERT... any Non-Vegetarian into Vegetarian. ..

..but to only bring out and Convey the True News behind the Subject.

(2) I have already clarified that the Choice of Food... is One's own Taste and personal freedom...

...and everybody has to decide oneself... which is the best of Food for himself / herself.

(3) It is the Fact... that the Majority of the Global Society were / are Non-Vegetarians..

...which Reality can NEVER BE CHANGED.

UNQUOTE"

Why then my dear sir you want to go on and on?

Everyone here is internet savy and everyone knows where to get information from net.

Your reposting from net does not help a cause. It , in fact damages it.

Since you have posted this topic to gain other's point of view, you must have by now got it in many forms like voting and written in form of postings.

I want to again stress that to either promote a cause or denounce a cause or a system, you must know the system.
If you want to write against non vegetarian food, you must know by your own experience .
Shankaracharya had to leave his own body as the wife of Mandan Misra asked a question on Kamasashtra.
If he had not done so, he could never have won.
SOo he did enjoy Kama by yogic means , gained the experience and then answered her.

So if you do not have experience of both sides, no use taking one sided stand.

I hope you get the drift.

Nichiro

[Sudhaama]

Dear Mr. Sudhaama,

You have already admitted in your own words many facts which I am reposting as follows.

"QUOTE"

Here I clarify and confirm my stand already highlighted... several times before.

(1) The Scope and Intention of this Thread is ...NOT TO CONVERT... any Non-Vegetarian into Vegetarian. ..

..but to only bring out and Convey the True News behind the Subject.

(2) I have already clarified that the Choice of Food... is One's own Taste and personal freedom...

...and everybody has to decide oneself... which is the best of Food for himself / herself.

(3) It is the Fact... that the Majority of the Global Society were / are Non-Vegetarians..

...which Reality can NEVER BE CHANGED.

UNQUOTE"

Why then my dear sir you want to go on and on?

Everyone here is internet savy and everyone knows where to get information from net.

Your reposting from net does not help a cause. It , in fact damages it.

Since you have posted this topic to gain other's point of view, you must have by now got it in many forms like voting and written in form of postings.

I want to again stress that to either promote a cause or denounce a cause or a system, you must know the system.
If you want to write against non vegetarian food, you must know by your own experience .
Shankaracharya had to leave his own body as the wife of Mandan Misra asked a question on Kamasashtra.
If he had not done so, he could never have won.
SOo he did enjoy Kama by yogic means , gained the experience and then answered her.

So if you do not have experience of both sides, no use taking one sided stand.

I hope you get the drift.

Nichiro

All these Questions have already been replied by me and others.

Further I will elaborate analytically soon.
.

[Nichiro]

Dear Mr. Sudhaama,
Please avoid quoting long texts as it seems to eat off a lot of valuable space.

[Sudhaama]

.
Sorry for my delay... due to my Health...

...and extremely Busy in other respects.

So I request my friends to continue.

...I will join later.
.

[Sudhaama]

.
.
.Sterile-EGG.. Vegetarian Food.!: Vegetarian Congress.!!!


.How Vegetarian-Food is classified.?

.Vegetatarian-Food need not be confined to Vegetations only.!

. Sterile- Egg eating may be UNAVOIDABLE for Vegetarians in Cold-Regions.!


On this subject... or on any subject... Logical approach can NEVER REACH the right answer..

...but can lead only towards UNENDING ARGUMENTS... CONFUSIONS... and

...ultimately can MISLEAD... towards a SELF-DECEPTIVE Answer.

No doubt...Logical-approach is the pursuit of High Wisdom... based on Reasoning.

So Logic can well act as a spur towards Scientific Questions... and bring out the Hidden True Data concealed behind...

...open up new paths towards the Goal... the Right Answer.

..but Logic can never get us the Final Solution or the Right Answer.

For example... even in the Courts of Law... where the principles of Logics is abundantly applied...

...by means of Arguments and Counter-Arguments... the highest probing Exercise... of Offence and Defence...

..the Judgement is rendered more by MORAL-APPROACH...

..for which the Government Laws have amply accomodated in every way reasonable...

...such that the Judgement is not rendered by Logical Questioning... by Wisdom alone...

..but by means of the Human-Answers... the Moral-conclusions... emanated from Heart.

Thus any Vegetarian-Food can be argued and concluded as Non-Vegetarian... by resorting to Logical-approach.

But can it convince us us so.?

Nor can it be considered Parallel?... or equalized with the well-categorised N.V. Foods.?

Scientifically and Morally... Sterile-Egg is Vegetarian.!

Scientifically speaking... Sterile-Egg is far different from the Conceived Egg... holding the Chicken..

..and so its Food Values are almost same as of Vegetarian Food-varieties originated from Vegetations.

Morally speaking... it does not carry any Life within. and so no Life is killed by eating Sterile-Egg...

..unlike the case of Conceived-Egg... holding the Chicken.

Is Food... the matter of just the preference by Tongue- Taste..?

Is it not more by consideration of the UNIQUE TYPE OF APT ENERGIES...

...coupled with the unparallel FUNCTIONAL--NEEDS of the Mankind.?

My dear Friends... Please put forth your Thoughts and Knowledge on the subject..

...Pro or Anti.!...???
.

[app_engine]

Morally speaking... it does not carry any Life within. and so no Life is killed by eating Sterile-Egg...


Interesting:-) What about nellu, chOLam, uruLaikkizhangu, carrott:-))

[thamizhvaanan]

Morality is a word invented to define the imaginary terms called good and bad. So it can change according to the individual using the word :wink:

[Nichiro]

Sterile egg....Vegetarian or Non Vegetarian?
Cow's milk Vegetarian or non vegetarian?
Mother's milk vegetarian or non vegetarian?

[pavalamani pragasam]

:D Why split hairs over such culinary preferences? As TV has rightly said it is purely personal!
I am reminded of my grandma's very down-to-earth proverbs about our food:
1.'venthatha thinnuttu vithi vanthannikki saagaNum'=eat cooked food till fate comes to take you away.
2.'vaaykku rusiyaa thinnuttu theekku rusiyaa saagaNum'=eat to the relish of your palate and get roasted to the relish of the pyre.
:sigh2: Lucky generation who knew not calorie-counting/exercise gyms, were not deluged with junk food thrust upon us through global consumerism/commerce, no tension of BP, obesity-related diseases which we have the 'fortune' to witness even in children!!!

[Nichiro]

PP Madam,

Your grand ma spoke the TRUTH.
I second her.

Nichiro

[pavalamani pragasam]

:D

[Sudhaama]

.
. Are You taking ENOUGH of VEGETABLES.?

- HEALTHY Food.

http://in.news.yahoo.com/32/20081116/396/thl-is-your-diet-healthy.html
.
.

[Punnaimaran]

Scientifically and Morally... Sterile-Egg is Vegetarian.!



What one may consider as morally correct may be wrong for others. For example, I may consider that eating vegetables as morally wrong for the following reason:

While hunting the animals, there may be a chance for them to escape whereas while plucking a vegetable or a fruit there is no way for them to escape.

It has been scientifically proven that the plants have life and do respond to music, love, pain etc....

So in this case, I may consider as immoral for a person to harm a life which can not defend itself !!

[Chappani]

Punnaimaran, wonderful arguements...
:notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:


Sudhama Ji, sorry to tell you, I strongly feel your thoughts and understanding of things is most of the time completly out of sync with the normal user accepted norms...

You just try to impose your beliefs on this society, thinking we are in still in good old Vedic age...

[Punnaimaran]

Thanks chap.

[thamizhvaanan]

[tscii:10ff95d8d1]What is your dinner doing to the climate?

LOCAL or imported? Conventional or organic? Can you make choices that will keep your diet healthy and reduce your carbon footprint? Is it possible to eat green? Does it even matter?

It may surprise you to learn that our diets account for up to twice as many greenhouse emissions as driving. One recent study suggested that the average US household's annual carbon food-print is 8.1 tonnes of "equivalent CO2 emissions" or CO2eq (a measure that incorporates any other greenhouse gases produced alongside the CO2). That's almost twice the 4.4 tonnes of CO2eq emitted by driving a 25-mile-per-US gallon (9 litres per 100 kilometres) vehicle 19,000 km - a typical year's mileage in the US.

As greenhouse gas emissions attract ever greater scrutiny and criticism, the fields of sustainable consumption and life-cycle carbon accounting have prompted academics to tally the greenhouse gas emissions of hundreds of products and manufacturing processes so that we can make more environmentally friendly food choices.

In the UK some supermarkets have already begun pilot programmes to label foods with their carbon footprint. One potato crisp producer is now labelling some lines with their CO2eq footprint - the makers calculated that each 34.5-gram packet that leaves the factory accounts for 75 grams of CO2eq. The Carbon Trust, a campaign group based in London, is working on a standardised system that companies can follow to work out the CO2eq footprint of any product.

So how do you calculate your stomach's CO2eq footprint? It's far from simple. For a start, you have to analyse every joule of energy used, from farm to fork, to measure its greenhouse gas contribution. Food produced using wind or solar power will produce lower emissions than food reliant on gas or coal, for example. For meat and dairy produce you also have to account for methane and nitrous oxide emissions - both potent greenhouse gases.

Methane remains in the atmosphere for 9 to 15 years and traps heat 21 times as effectively as CO2. Fertilisers and manure release nitrous oxide, which is 296 times as good as CO2 at trapping heat and remains in the atmosphere for 114 years on average. A food's emissions total also depends heavily on where it grew and how it was transformed from raw ingredients into your dinner. This includes gases generated by tilling the land, sowing the crops, making fertilisers and pesticides, harvesting the food and shipping it to processing plants, as well as electricity for cleaning, processing and packing your food, and then transporting it to your store. Finally, the loss of carbon sinks when forests are cleared for grazing or crops has to be accounted for.

The calculations can become "fiendishly complicated", says Astrid Scholz, an ecological economist at Ecotrust, a think tank based in Portland, Oregon. Scholz led the development of a carbon calculator for the Bon Appétit Management Company Foundation, which developed a Low Carbon Diet for its 400 plus cafeterias in the US.

For example, to calculate the CO2eq impact of eating an industrially raised chicken breast, you would factor in the following. First, there's the emissions from preparing the feed pellets. This would include the fertiliser, growing and processing the grain, and finally transforming it into bite-sized pellets that will feed the chicken while it sits in a hut with 250,000 other birds. Add to that the energy for heating the structure, the fuel for transporting the chicken to the slaughter facility, and the emissions from running the slaughtering facility and manufacturing the packaging.

Then there are emissions from transporting the animal to the wholesaler, the refrigeration costs of storing the meat, the trip to the retailer, and further refrigeration in the shop. Then you drive to the store, buy your chicken, drive home and cook it - all those emissions count too. Chicken is a relatively simple example, but the more stages involved in a food's production, the harder it becomes to calculate its true CO2eq footprint.

Scholz found that until recently there had been no wide scale effort to calculate CO2eq for foods in the US. In Europe, however, there are fledgling programmes that have calculated CO2eq emissions for some foods, so she used these figures to create a carbon calculator that she says gives comparable figures for the US. "We took a Dutch chicken farm and plopped it in Texas and assumed that it worked in a similar way," she explains.

She describes the resulting carbon calculator as "version 1.0 of a good idea". It doesn't give you the derivation of the figures, but it will tell you that 333 grams of CO2eq is emitted to make one hard-boiled egg. Compare that with a bowl of cereal with milk: 1224 grams of CO2eq - equivalent to driving a typical SUV 6 km.

The main culprit in the bowl isn't the cereal, it's the milk. That's because the most emissions-intensive foods are red meat and dairy products. In general, red meat emits 2.5 times as much greenhouse gas as chicken or fish, since rearing cows and other livestock requires a lot of energy. It takes 2.3 kilograms of grain to make every kilo of chicken meat, 5.9 kg of grain for a kilo of pork, and 13 kg of grain plus 30 kg of forage for a kilo of beef. Worse still, they produce methane and their manure releases nitrous oxide.

However, Peter Tyedmers, an ecological economist at Dalhousie University in Nova Scotia, Canada, warns that such calculators should be taken with a pinch of salt. Tyedmers and his students provided much of the raw data for the calculator, and while he agrees it is a good idea in principle, he says the figures they came up with are specific not just to the precise types of foods they measured, but to every detail of where and how they were produced, so cannot be generalised. For example, regional differences in farming practices can make a big impact on the final figure, he says. Simply changing an animal's feed can have a huge impact on its CO2eq footprint too. "It's all very fluid," says Tyedmers. "There's a tremendous hunger for these sorts of numbers and this has created the assumption that any existing figures are robust. They're not."

Tricky as it may be, some general rules are emerging that can guide you towards a less carbon-intensive diet. One sure-fire way of reducing your CO2eq footprint is to go vegetarian. Gidon Eshel and Pamela Martin, at the University of Chicago, calculated that switching from the average American diet to a vegetarian one could cut annual emissions by almost 1.5 tonnes of CO2eq per person.

Switching from the average American diet to a vegetarian one could cut emissions by 1.5 tonnes of CO2eq per person

If you can't face life without steak, there might soon be an alternative source of meat that can still dramatically cut your CO2eq emissions: in vitro meat. Animal-rights organisation People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA), which promotes vegetarianism, is offering a $1 million prize for an industrial-scale means of making in vitro chicken meat with a taste and texture indistinguishable from the real thing.

Careful dietary choices can also make a big difference to your greenhouse gas emissions. For example, you may well think that eating local or organic produce are greenhouse-friendly options, but that's not always the case. Even different fish have a wide variety of greenhouse impacts.

Christopher Weber at Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, also examined whether vegetarians eat enough nutrients. His conclusion was a resounding yes. "Plant-based diets are safe, and are probably nutritionally superior to mixed diets deriving a large fraction of their calories from animals," he wrote. The message is clear: indulge in a steak once in a while, but our planet's health would be better off if we just give meat the chop.
1 Meat or not?

When it comes to foods with the highest potential for global warming, red meat products are among the worst. Livestock account for 18 per cent of "man-made" greenhouse emissions: 9 per cent of all CO2, 35 to 40 per cent of methane and 65 per cent of nitrous oxide (mainly through fertilisers).

Ruminants such as cattle, goats and sheep not only breathe out CO2 like us, but they also produce methane. The cause is lignin, a component of the cell wall in grass that can only be digested with the help of bacteria in the animal's gut, and the unfortunate by-product of this is methane. What's worse, the resulting excrement also releases methane as the undigested plant matter decays. Spreading the waste on fields or pastures can minimise this, but the manure is often stored in liquid form in large lagoons, which exacerbates the anaerobic decomposition. Some farms tackle this by covering the lagoons and trapping the methane, which is burned to provide heat.

Can the animals' diet make a difference? Grass-fed beef is frequently marketed as the cleaner, greener alternative to grain-fed cattle because the cows don't consume energy-intensive crops. However, this is misleading according to Ermias Kebreab at the University of Manitoba in Winnipeg.

Kebreab and his colleagues developed a computer model of the cow's digestive system and simulated whether grain or grass produced the most methane. Then he tested his predictions by placing a cow in a room, feeding it either corn or hay, and measuring the rising levels of CO2 and methane every minute for 24 hours. He found that grass-fed cows actually produce more methane than the grain fed ones.

"Cows evolved to eat grass, but these grass-fed cows produce less milk and meat than their grain-fed counterparts," says Kebreab, so you need to rear more to produce the same amount of food. Higher-quality feed like corn builds a more productive cow that yields more meat and milk and produces less methane.

It matters because meat and dairy products make up a third of humanity's protein intake, and demand is growing fast. In 2000, global meat consumption was 230 million tonnes per year; by 2050 it is expected to reach 465 million tonnes. What's more, current methods of producing animal meat are incredibly inefficient. Only 5 to 25 per cent of the nutrients (depending on the animal) are converted into edible meat, according to Jason Matheny, a health economist at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, Maryland. The rest is spent on the animal's metabolism and on building inedible nerve and bone tissue.
Producing animal meat is incredibly inefficient. Only 5 to 25 per cent of the nutrients are converted into meat

Fortunately, a remarkable alternative seems to be emerging: eliminate the animal from the production process entirely and instead grow the meat in a vat. "With in vitro meat there's no body to support," says Matheny. In vitro meat has been in development for decades, but only recently has it begun to be seen as a viable alternative to rearing livestock.

At the first In Vitro Meat Symposium, held at the Norwegian Food Research Institute near Oslo in April, Stig William Omholt of the Norwegian University of Life Sciences in Ås suggested that large-scale in vitro meat production could be implemented now for around €3400 a tonne, making it competitive with farm-raised meat, he says. In Europe unsubsidised chicken costs around €1800 a tonne, while beef costs just over €3500.

In one scenario, the meat would be cultivated from muscle stem cells from cows, pigs and sheep. The cells are attached to either small edible spheres or a 3D scaffold and then cultured in a liquid nutrient broth until the clusters of muscle cells are large enough to harvest, says Bernard Roelen at Utrecht University in the Netherlands, who is developing technology to grow in vitro meat. The first "test tube" meats to hit the market are likely to be burgers, sausages, chicken nuggets and other minced meat products.

While in vitro meat won't be greenhouse-gas free, Matheny says emissions from the bioreactor plants would pale in comparison with those of conventional production. No methane emissions from the animals, no fertiliser production, no deforestation and pasture degradation. Matheny is crunching the numbers to see if in vitro meat can live up to its lean emissions promise.
2 Organic vs conventional

Though the organic label began as a mark of farming standards, for many people it has come to mean environmentally friendly, and often they assume that also implies lower CO2 emissions. Is that really the case?

Nathan Pelletier at Dalhousie University in Halifax, Nova Scotia, has compared the greenhouse gas emissions of organic and conventionally grown corn, wheat, soya and canola. He found that organically grown crops have a much smaller carbon footprint, consuming only 39 per cent of the energy and producing only 77 per cent of the greenhouse gases of their non-organic counterparts. The reason, says Pelletier, is eliminating nitrogen fertiliser from the cultivation process. Fertilisers account for roughly 1 per cent of the world's total energy consumption.

However, the comparison is not so straightforward for all foods. For vegetable and fruit crops, it's almost impossible to compare organic with conventional without knowing exactly how or where the crop was grown. "It's very context-specific," says Pelletier.

Organic certainly doesn't always mean lower emissions. Organic poultry, for example, requires 10 per cent more energy than battery-farmed poultry as the latter are raised in facilities where they can barely move so more of their food energy is converted into protein. Also, non-organic birds require less grain to make the same amount of meat, says Peter Melchett, policy director at the Soil Association, the UK's organic standards watchdog. An organically raised bird will need to live longer and eat more grain to reach the same weight.

Organic fish isn't that environmentally friendly either. For example, wild salmon is increasingly rare, so supermarkets offer organic and conventionally farmed salmon instead. Pelletier analysed the emissions from raising these two types of salmon and found that, contrary to popular belief, the organically farmed salmon were responsible for up to 30 per cent more greenhouse emissions than conventionally farmed fish.

The reason is the salmon's diet. Fish feed is usually 50 per cent grain and 50 per cent fishmeal - a powder made from unsold fish and fish offal, or small whole fish. While using organically grown grain means a lower carbon tab than grain grown with synthetic fertilisers and pesticides, organic standards stipulate that the fishmeal component must come from fisheries certified as sustainable and for human consumption. Conventionally farmed salmon uses fishmeal derived from "reduction fisheries" that catch small oily fish like mackerel, herring and anchovy that travel in dense schools, which tend to be much more fuel-efficient to catch.

"You can get thousands of tonnes of fish in one scoop," says Pelletier. It typically takes less than 50 litres of gasoline to haul a tonne of these fish. Fisheries for human consumption are much more fuel-intensive - some run as high as 2000 litres per tonne. Using waste products from these fisheries to produce fishmeal sounds like a good idea - but actually has a much greater carbon trail.
3 Farmed vs wild fish

Tuna, cod and other deep-water fish all require fleets of fishing vessels scouring the seas in search of a catch. Since some of these fish can now be grown in fish farms, this would sound like a much less carbon-intensive means of production, since it all but eliminates fuel usage. Can it really produce lower greenhouse gas emissions?

No one has yet done a rigorous comparison of the various aquaculture schemes with industrial fishing, but Stuart Bunting, who specialises in aquatic resource management at the University of Essex in Colchester, UK, says that back-of-the-envelope calculations show where the major carbon emissions lie. One of the most carbon-intensive stages of fish farming is producing fishmeal, he says.

For cage-based costal salmon farming, which relies on currents and tides to remove waste, 90 per cent of the greenhouse gases result from fishmeal production. Further energy is spent rearing the salmon smolts to a size where they can be released in the cages. In contrast, land-based closed containment requires less fishmeal, but instead consumes energy in keeping the fish tanks clean and at the right temperature, and so produces more greenhouse emissions overall.

One way to improve fish farming may be to look to traditional Chinese aquaculture, in which herbivorous and omnivorous species are reared in the same pond. This ecosystem-based approach allows plants to serve as food for animals higher up. This approach eliminates the need for greenhouse-gas-intensive fishmeal. Unfortunately, China's growing appetite for carnivorous fish is leading farmers to adopt western-style aquaculture, feeding the animals fishmeal and fish oil, at the expense of the traditional method's environmental benefits, says Bunting.

Farmed shrimp have a particularly large carbon wake. This industry has destroyed more than 30 per cent of the world's coastal mangroves. Like rainforests, mangroves are carbon sinks. When they are drained and cleared they release both CO2 and methane.

What's more, it takes at least two kilos of fish and squid meal to produce a kilo of shrimp. That means not only a net protein loss, but a hefty carbon trail just to produce these creatures' food. To make things worse, these shrimp are often flown to the west.

If you want to choose fish with a low carbon footprint Bunting and Pelletier recommend farmed herbivorous species - tilapia, carp, bream and catfish.

When it comes to wild seafood, "marine capture fisheries" - fishing fleets in the open ocean - are completely dependent on fossil fuels, as well as being susceptible to overfishing. They account for 1.2 per cent of global oil consumption and emit more than 130 million tonnes of CO2 into the atmosphere per year. That is equivalent to the amount of oil used by the Netherlands, says Tyedmers, which is the 18th largest oil consumer on the planet. However, actual oil usage varies wildly depending on the type of catch. Small fish like herring and anchovy that travel in schools can be captured for 50 litres a tonne, whereas shrimp, tuna, swordfish, sole and flounder can require up to 40 times that.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19926731.700-what-is-your-dinner-doing-to-the-climate.html?full=true[/tscii:10ff95d8d1]

[pizzalot]

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Scientifically and Morally... Sterile-Egg is Vegetarian.!

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Not correct.

Science clearly differentiates plant and animals at cell level.
(http://www.biology-online.org/11/1_plant_cells_vs_animal_cells.htm).

Now coming to the topic, we cannot make generalizations as to which is superior or inferior. Atleast Ecologists would keep predatory species on top of all other organisms.

Your argument on generalizing animal gunas based on diet is also not very strong. For example , male highland mountain goats kill each other fighting all day long just to impress the females. Proves that you can get the needed hormones for aggression even from vegetarian sources. On the other hand even in predatory species like Lions , tigers or carnivorous dinosaurs , you can will see amazing parental care, brotherly love and saintly nature. Most of them are cool and composed when they are done with their hunting. And even while hunting they kill without "hatred" in their minds.

Aggression is a common behavior triggered by environment and ecological factors, like food shortage or mate scarcity. Sometimes it is also a courting behavior. Like aggressively chasing a female, sometimes even biting and hurting them even in herbivorous animals.

Citing Environmental reasons for being a Vegetarian is completely a BS:

Consider this: CO2 levels goes down when plants trap CO2 during photosynthesis. Animals eat those plants, which will cause more CO2 production. By eating those animals and keeping their population in check, we , and other animals, ofcourse reduce the greenhouse effect.

From health point of view: Egg , Butter and animal diets high in saturated fats and cholesterol and so, potentially cause heart and other diseases. But it is true to some of the plant source fats as well. Like Coconut fat is believed to be equally dangerous. Lean meat like Chicken is advised as being good only in limited quantities because it is bad for your liver and kidneys (so are some other diets rich in proteins including Soya beans).

Now coming to moral view : Our "humane" nature is a result of "confusion" that arises in our brain. If your kith and kin are mixed-up with other animals in your "mental picture" , then you are bound to extend "humanity" to the animals also.

This is true for animals also. See a leopard adopts a monkey baby after killing and eating its mother. Apparently the Leopard is confused by "maternal" and "predatory" instinct operating at the same time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkEex37su3s

But I doubt the honeymoon with the baby lasted forever.

My point is , the environment brings out the true nature in you. You are influenced by the environment more than you influence it. Even the Environmentalists and ecologists do not want all Vegetarian animals. According to them , "More Predators = Sign of Better Environment/Ecosystem".

Man is a social animal, but "animal" nevertheless, and will remain so forever and ever. Actually , he is more vulnerable to environmental changes than other animals.

There is no right or wrong, I guess. Just your choice, but there is always a consequence to whichever actions you choose. Also there was a subtle reason for your choices as well, in the first place.

He .. He..

Happy New Year to all

[pizzalot]

This is a very interesting topic for me so I came back with a question.

Though the discussion here seems to be around mankind as "species" and pre-historic times, I am interested to know what people have been in the historic times. I know people of Indus were heavy fish eaters. What about people during Ashoka times ? How recent or ancient is the concept of "vegetarian-onlyism?". What is said in Sangam , Ramayana , Mahabharat ?

Can anyone shed light on the issue ?

[Sudhaama]

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குறள் 259:

அவிசொரிந் தாயிரம் வேட்டலின் ஒன்றன்
உயிர்செகுத் துண்ணாமை நன்று.

கலைஞர் உரை:

நெய் போன்ற பொருள்களைத் தீயிலிட்டு ஆயிரம் வேள்விகளை நடத்துவதைவிட உண்பதற்காக ஓர் உயிரைப் போக்காமலிருப்பது நல்லது.

மு.வ உரை:

நெய் முதலியப் பொருள்களைத் தீயில் சொரிந்து ஆயிரம் வேள்விகள் செய்தலை விட ஒன்றன் உயிரைக்கொன்று உடம்பைத் தின்னாதிருத்தல் நல்லது.

சாலமன் பாப்பையா உரை:

(மந்திரம் சொல்லித் தேவர்களுக்கு இடும் உணவாகிய) அவிகளைத் தீயில் போட்டு ஆயிரம் வேள்வி செய்வதைக் காட்டிலும் ஓர் உயிரைப் போக்கி அதன் உடம்பை உண்ணாமல் இருப்பது நல்லது.

Translation:

Than thousand rich oblations, with libations rare,
Better the flesh of slaughtered beings not to share.

Explanation:

Not to kill and eat (the flesh of) an animal, is better than the pouring forth of ghee etc., in a thousand sacrifices.

.............
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[Sudhaama]

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How to CATEGORISE Vegetarian-Foods.?.... as LIFELESS / Inanimate?

....differentiating from Non-Vegetarian Edibles.!


Often this Question is raised... that Vegetations too... possess Life... as proved by Science.

So the so-called Vegetarians too are indirectly eating Living-beings in the shape of Vegetations.

Is it Correct.?

No. Vegetations have NO LIFE... They are INANIMATE (JATAM)....

...Because they are FAR-DIFFERENT from the Other Category...

....the Living-beings... like Animals, Birds, Water-creatures, Worms etc. How.?

(1) Inanimate Objects have NO BRAIN... Whereas one and all the Living-beings possess Brains.

(2) Inanimate creations like Stone, Soil, Trees, Water, Vegetations and the like.... cannot SELF-DEFEND...

....and so are NON-REACTIVE. to extraneous influence or Force on them... by Attack or Damage or even on Cutting or Plucking

(3) By consuming Vegetations we are NOT KILLING THEM...

...but only helping them grow... Because the seeds are NOT KILLED mostly.

And thus EXCESSIVE GROWTH... is CURBED... within its limitations by Law of Nature

(4) If left undisturbed they perish of their own accord.... before wihich the Vegetarian Creatures like Cow, Elephant, Deer, Monkey and MANKIND consume them....

.... to gain Energy by APT FOODS... for Domestic-Creatures....

..which INVARIABLY.... is the VEGETARIAN Variety Foods... in some Form...

....either as Leaves, Grass, Root, Fruits, Fibres, Seeds, or Unripe Vegetables etc..

Opposite is the case of Wild-Creatures like Tiger, Lion, Snake, Jackal, Dog etc....

which are the BORN NON-VEGETARIANS...

....as PRE-DETERMINED...... BY NATURE.

(5) Mankind is NOT A WILD-CREATURE.... like Cat, Dog, Tiger, Eagle, Snakes etc.... by Offensive Attitude BY BIRTH...

....but a BORN DEFENSIVE CREATURE like the so called DOMESTIC ANIMALS and Birds....

....such as Cow, Deer, Elephant, Parrot, Dove etc....

And MANY MORE Justifications too.... To Follow.

Thus Mankind is the BORN VEGETARIAN.

....Scientifically too.!
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[aanaa]

Animals

drinks water by sucking- veggie : cow , horse
drinks by licking - non veggie : dog cat, : lion

we drink - not licking - so by nature human is veggie

[Punnaimaran]

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(2) Inanimate creations like Stone, Soil, Trees, Water, Vegetations and the like.... cannot SELF-DEFEND...

....and so are NON-REACTIVE. to extraneous influence or Force on them... by Attack or Damage or even on Cutting or Plucking
.

That is one of the main reasons for the man who was not brave enough or was just lazy to pluck out a fruit and eat. So as pizzalot wrote, it is the surroundings and external factors that make man either a vegetarian or a non-Vegetarian. And of course the taste preference.

[Sudhaama]

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Living Graves



Author: George Bernard Shaw.


We are the living graves of murdered beasts,
Slaughtered to satisfy our appetites.
We never pause to wonder at our feasts,
If animals, like men, can possibly have rights.
We pray on Sundays that we may have light,
To guide our footsteps on the path we tread.
We're sick of war, we do not want to fight -
The thought of it now fills our hearts with dread,
And yet - we gorge ourselves upon the dead.

Like carrion crows we live and feed on meat,
Regardless of the suffering and the pain
we cause by doing so, if thus we treat
defenceless animals for sport or gain,
how can we hope in this world to attain,
the PEACE we say we are so anxious for.
We pray for it o'er hecatombs of slain,
to God, while outraging the moral law,
thus cruelty begets its offspring - WAR.



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[Sudhaama]

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MEAT-EATING... is Not Forbidden...


... in Hinduism,


But.... NOT ENCOURAGED.!





Meat eating is forbidden in Hinduism, how many of you Hindus follow this? :huh: :x



Geetha clarifies that the Mankind is the MOST SUPERIOR Birth ...

-- mainly because Mankind only is endowed with SOUL-POWER...

...which No other Creature on Earth possesses, however mighty they be in other aspects.

That Soul power only makes the Man... RULE OVER THE WHOLE EARTH...

...alongside DOMINATING over all other creatures..

..as also TRULY ENJOY by making Earthly Paradise.

So every Man irrespective of his/her profession, occupation and Social segments,

...should constantly endeavour to RAISE ONESELF... BY ONES OWN,

...wholly utlizing the Soul power, synchronising with his Super Wisdom and Mind-might.

In that pursuit, MEAT-EATING WILL BE AN IMPEDIMENT or Retardating INTERFERENCE

---on his endeavour to meaningfully and Truly LIVE, ENJOY, UPLIFT and ADVANCE as the Superior birth intended.

Food is an important factor in Shaping, Nurturing and Channelising ones Qualities / Propensities.

Every Man is compounded of Three Complex Qualities --- Sathva, Rajo and Thaamasa Gunas.

Meat-Eating gradually kills Sathva Guna, which is the Most important Factor to maintain Wisdom and Soul-power.

Rather Meat-Eating in course of time, makes him lose his innate might to CONTROL EMOTIONS and EMOTIONARY DECISIONS in Life.

Food is chosen by Mankind by Two factors mainly.

(1) Availability (2) Need of his Occupation / Profession.

Meat renders PHYSICAL MIGHT very Quickly... especially Muscle-Strength,

....whereas by means of Vegetarian Foods too, Muscle-power can be gained... but ONLY SLOWLY.

So the professionals who are engaged as Warrior or some such occupations, where his Physical might is the most vital Need for his functions...

...MEAT-EATING IS ALLOWED AND PERMITTED within the MINIMUM REQUIREMENT .

And No doubt, Meat-Eating is SINFUL TOO.!

So in the interest of Ones own pursuit to REALLY LIVE AS MAN. by utilizing his high Mights of Soul, Wisdom and Mind...

--without allowing the Over-powering by his Emotions on his Decision-making...

Mankind is advised to avoid, as far as possible eating Non-Vegetrarian Foods.

However in case of those engaged in NOBLE PROFESSIONS,

--like the Medicals, Judges, Teaching, Social-Services, Temple Services and Vedic practices for the Society---

--they should must and ought to strictly be confined to Vegetarian Foods only, only and only...

...under any Circumstances.

Because Non Veg Foods will obstruct, divert and interfere in his Decison-making and approach on problems..


...by means of creation of UNDUE and Dangerous EMOTIONAL SPUR within him.!

... Working Counter to his Good Intentions...

...being a Human, the INNATE SUPREME.!!!

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