Foolish Concepts of Patriotism

[mahavirchavan]

Hi!

Patriotism itself is related to certain geographical area. The foolish patriot loves the geographical region and the rivers, mountains, seas etc. of that particular area but he does not love the people in that region. He hates people of his own nation who do not belong to his religion, sect, language, caste and class. He always hates other countries, and most of time he wish there should be a war and his country should teach a lesson to the other countries. The funny thing is that he or no one from his family never wishes to join military. For him, exhibiting flags, shouting slogans, singing patriotic songs is the right way of patriotism.

Some of my friends think that I do not love India, because I do not see cricket match, even if it is between India and Pakistan. I have also heard if someone appreciates the play of Pakistanis, such patriots become angry.

What do you think about the right way of patriotism?

Mahavir Chavan

[blahblah]

What do you think about the right way of patriotism?


If you want my answer in one sentence,it is 'paying your taxes'.

[scorpio]

BlahBlah,

How true it is !! Wish all those tax evaders see this reply!

:clap:

[Sandeep]

Global mindset has somehow become a fashion today. :roll:

[nirosha sen]

Patriotism is helping to keep your country clean!!

Not just admire the habits of others in more advanced countries, while you throw out everything from your window and expect somebody else to clean up after you!!

[a.ratchasi]

Well said, Niro.

[Roshan]

If you want my answer in one sentence,it is 'paying your taxes'.

True !! as long as the taxes paid are utilized for the well being of the country and its people. But does it happen in our countries?? :cry:

To me patriotism means "eliminating corruption". It's a collective responsibility of every individual.

[rraghavan]

Patriotism has always been a selfish feeling.It is just a tonic to unleash the inner maniac. It is mostly associated with violence.Beyond a point,it is the subjective perception that matters.When some body tries to attack you ,one-on-one , you try to block it calling defense mechanism.Assume, you multiply this defense mechanism by thousand and the goverenment consent in killing ( not murdering) the "ENEMY" is not punishable by law,there you have the definition for patriotism.I want to call the synonym for patriotism is self-will.

[nirosha sen]

You have put it very well Raghavan!! For me, patriotism is simply the love of the land, you live in. It has nothing to do with loyalty or blind adulation for the favoured politicians, who are here today but gone tomorrow!

But the land and the love you have for it is enduring. That's what we ought to teach the children, that they stand to inherit the good and the bad of people's deeds.

[HindustaniLadka]

One way to be patriotic is to push the government to go after corrupt politicians. Corruption is the only thing that is keeping India down. India is a sleeping giant and the corrupt politicians are stopping India from waking up and becoming a superpower. Seriously, if corrupt politicians were out of the government for the most part, more moeny would be spent on infrastructure and the poor and we would develop even more quickly.

[joe]

Think about people in Bangaladesh who born before 1947..

They born as Indian and been asked to Love India
After 1947 ,They became Pakistani and been asked love Pakistan
After few years ,they became Bangaladeshi and been asked to love Bangaladesh.

Did Those people really prefer that?Because of political reason they are forced to do so.

[Badri]

Vanga Joe!! Romba naala kanoom?

Excellent thought, Joe!! Another example would be the erstwhile USSR breaking down into many independent countries.

When countries change their geographical borders, how do you define Patriotism?

[Surya]

When countries change their geographical borders, how do you define Patriotism?

That's truly a throught provoking line! But I think that the fact still remains that the Banglas are still patriotic to bagladesh. Same with teh Pakis. The definition of patriotism still remains the same right?

To show love, support, and sacrifice for one's country.

Even if it's divided the ppl of that region become patriotic to that seperated region.

[F.S.Gandhi vandayar]

// Foolish concept of patriotism //

Foolishness’ is rather, I feel , strong offensive word. However we can use ‘Imaginery’ in place of foolishness. Let us call ‘Imaginery concept of patriotism’ appropriately.

We always need this kind of imaginery set up or arrangement to take care of our / our people’s life.

All rules and regulations are imaginery setup brought out from the past experience.

For example ‘marriage law’. It varies land to land. When men carried out forest life a kind of polygamy / irregular marital behaviours were there among men. In order to regularize marriage law formed : And still people found lot of violations. Marriage rituals were formed.

In the same way though before 1947 India was not one, scattered as land bits with its horizons, a constitution was built up to integrate and make mutually beneficial arrangement among people.

Though these setup and other slogans seems to be to eulogise patriotism it is an arrangement to protect ourselves and get the things distributed among people.

If this distribution is not equal then you can call the patriotism will have no meaning.

And here we have to point out that the sacrifices of few will make others to survive is derived through this patriotism and definitely it has meaning.

Let us believe this arrangement and try to strengthen this arrangement. Time is still there and no need to rush to end this concept and Instead of bashing out patriotism let us pour water in all ways to keep.

'Hindustaniladuka' wrote

/// One way to be patriotic is to push the government to go after corrupt politicians. Corruption is the only thing that is keeping India down.///

Corruption prevails from prehistoric period. A word ‘Kaiyootu’ which was used before prehistoric period.

In a historic film ‘ Schindlers’s List’ A germanian Schindler gives bribery to get man workers for his factory during second world war.

United States of America is not ruled out for this affair. They use ‘Whistle blower system’ to curb bribery and in this case they get success to certain extend only.

In this situation, only blaming & pointing out politicians becomes futile. Every nook and corner of India is having this bribery pollution.

To solve this vexed problem what do we have to do ?

We have to change the social pattern through propogations and have to have radical change in the constitutional set up.

Mr. Jawaharlal Nehru tried to implement Socialistic pattern which abolishes asset rights. When you abolish asset rights there is a chance of avoiding accumulation of unnecessary wealth and black money through power.

He could not make it due to other compulsions. Mrs. Indira Gandhi tried by implementing land sealing act which only could end in Binami lands.

Unless we emphasize and legetimise abolishtion of asset rights as followed in Russia and China We will be in great trouble due to corruption.

All other attempts will become futile.

f.s.gandhi

[HindustaniLadka]

I disagree. I feel we should stay away from communism at all costs. Right now, both Russia and Mainland China are terrible places to live...do you want India to become like them?

[F.S.Gandhi vandayar]

Not communistic model. Atleast in corruption prevention we can follow their pattern since it has been proved successful.

[nirosha sen]

:shock: How does one prove corruption when there's a clampdown on the media????? Who would the whistle-blowers be in such a system????!!!!

Just curious, Pa!!

[blahblah]

:shock: How does one prove corruption when there's a clampdown on the media????? Who would the whistle-blowers be in such a system????!!!!

Just curious, Pa!!

Niro,There can't be such a 'clampdown' on the media in the present world in any democratic society.I am quite sure atleast in my country the media is quite free to write what they want.Just recently,the Indian Express came out with an investigation report on how the relief money meant for the flood victims in Bihar were diverted/misused by an IAS officer and his allies.Patna Deputy Magistrate Gautam Goswamy is on the run as I type this and his accomplice Santosh Jha is under custody.Again the Indian media played a big role in bringing 'Tiger Pataudi'[Nawab Mansoor Ali Khan,who once led the Indian Cricket Team] before the law in a hunting case.They unearthed the Petrol Pump Scam where the followers of the then ruling party ran away with all the loot in the form of petrol pumps.

What I want to say is that is that the Indian media is as free and probably stronger than the media in other nations.

[EdenWoods]

My definition of patriotism is simple.
.
1. Pay your taxes.
2. Love your countrymen.
3. Avoid fanaticism.
4. Do not mix one's religion with nationhood or patriotism.
5. Preach your beliefs/religion wherever in your country, but allow others the same.
6. Avoid violence on your co-citizen.
7. Do not form hate groups and join cults or secretive organisations with sectarian agendas.
8. Do sacrifice a little, and be in your country which you cliam to be a patriot of.
9. Avoid hipocricy.
.
It turned out to be not so simple, after all!

[Cinefan]

5. Preach your beliefs/religion wherever in your country, but allow others the same.

7. Do not form hate groups and join cults or secretive organisations with sectarian agendas.


5)Who takes the responsibility of ensuring that only beliefs/religion is preached&no attempt is made to coerce ppl to convert by doling out money,gifts etc.

7)Who will define which organisation falls under this purview-The govenment?Then everytime there is a change in power will it go about banning organizations which it feels spread hate?Your idea of sectarian can be different from mine right?

[rajasaranam]

Excellent thought, Joe!! Another example would be the erstwhile USSR breaking down into many independent countries.


As all thinks USSR is not 'United states of soviet Russia' but is 'Union of soviet socialist Republics' :wink: which means that it forms a union of different countries and cultural groups coming under one roof with common agenda. The USSR declared the rights of the countries that ' they were free to be in this union or can get separated anytime they wish to from the union' . So it should be understood that USSR did not not break into many independent countries but it was already many independent countries and as the union got dissolved the countries were left alone after '1991'.

[Manoj Kumar]

[tscii:73ac226dd3]Patriotism has been wrongly understood by most of the people. This can be due to the influence of certain so-called-nationalist parties/organization, which has given totally a wrong idea.

Truly patriotic means following certain principles, which brings pride and prosperity to the people of their country.
Most of the hypocrites who claim themselves to be nationalists define patriotism by just giving lengthy speeches usually bashing other non-friendly nations. They have their own set of right-wing/ fascist/ sectarian ideologies which creates discord and disharmony among citizens. They can go to any extent even harming their own harmless fellow citizens, who disagree/ oppose their ideologies.

...The fanatics who spread violence in the name of religion are worse than terrorist and more dangerous than an alien enemy... (Quoted in the Supreme Court judgment in the Best Bakery Case)

Every normal individual, following the following principles is a real patriotic.

1. Having Ethics as the basic principle

2. Integrity/ honesty/ truthfulness

3. Understand their responsibility in the society and carry out them diligently.

4. Respect to the laws & rules. (Ex.--- Like following all the traffic rules even if the policeman is not there.)

5. Respect to the rights or concern for other fellow citizens. (Ex.--- Don’t smoke in public places, when others are around, stop playing music loud at your home/shop, it can disturb your neighbours).

6. Not accepting bribe is OK. Do not also give bribe. The one who gives is also as much guilty as the one who accepts. The giver encourages this system. Let us discourage this by refusing to give bribe. ( Ex.--- don’t try briding the traffic policeman, when you are caught violating certain traffic rules, instead pay the fine)

7. I strongly believe that it is an ethical duty of all the educated and privileged people to care and uphold at least one or few backward, uneducated, and underprivileged peoples. (Ex.--- support at least one under privileged child for his/her study).

8. Most important is do your work sincerely with time punctuality. You not doing your work properly can influence the entire chain of work. You not moving a file from your department can delay or cancel someone else job. Never deprive someone of anything because of your disregard or negligence. It can be any job. When you do your work to your at most ability in the stipulated time, this improves the productively of the country. When the productivity is high, people get work, they earn. Once they earn they also spend… they buy more than their basic needs… to cater their need… more business are opened… this creates more job. Ultimately, there is prosperity of the nation.

In conclusion, patriotism is not just loving your geological location or hating other non-friendly countries. But taking responsibility for self, being accountable for the work, respecting the rules and regulations, not being indifferent to fellow humans in need, following certain principles for righteous living, and above all being productive which will lead to the growth and development of all the fellow citizens. [/tscii:73ac226dd3]

[Sandeep]

For me patriotism is about loving your country and thats all.

By your rules in India there are no patriots. Any Indian would have broken at least one of your rules.

[Manoj Kumar]

[tscii:427e0d344c]Hi Sandeep,
Firstly, these are not rules; these are just basic principles, which are not difficult to follow. You just need will power to overcome certain shortcut/ selfish methods in your normal everyday living.

It is always easy to point your fingers at politicians, bureaucrats, and law enforcement authorities for the mess in the country. However, nobody likes to do his/her duty or responsibility towards the society. Everybody loves easy living by any shortcut method, thinking it is not a big crime. Small drops of water finally become an ocean. Therefore, the mess is created by us the ordinary citizens.

Love without action is as good as dead. Loving your country is not a feeling but it is an action.
If one doesn’t DO the right thing for his country, he is definitely not loving his country, he is selfish. He just feels that he loves his country and fools himself.

[/tscii:427e0d344c]

[ssanjinika]

In my opinion Patriotism is
Not bringing down another country but bringing your country up.
In other words its not raising slogans against Pakistan
but
its not spitting on the roads,
its not throwing a banana peel on the road,
its paying taxes,
its not bribing the traffic constable when you ran a red light,
its standing in attention when Jana Gana Mana is played,
its not fighting for some obscure peice of land in Hoganikkal.
Its all these small small things.

[Manoj Kumar]

[tscii:69762594db]I totally agree with ssanjinika’s view. We should be more disciplined and must care for other’s right too.[/tscii:69762594db]

[Sandeep]

[tscii:bcd5f46e73]Hi Sandeep,
Firstly, these are not rules; these are just basic principles, which are not difficult to follow. You just need will power to overcome certain shortcut/ selfish methods in your normal everyday living.

It is always easy to point your fingers at politicians, bureaucrats, and law enforcement authorities for the mess in the country. However, nobody likes to do his/her duty or responsibility towards the society. Everybody loves easy living by any shortcut method, thinking it is not a big crime. Small drops of water finally become an ocean. Therefore, the mess is created by us the ordinary citizens.


I am not saying the rules ('principles' as u call them) are wrong. Ofcourse all those are good/right and important things that as a social animals all needs to follow. All I am saying is Patriotism is not a superset of all these qualities but one addition quality which is intermingled with others.

For Example - Following Law and Order

A person who kills his wife's rapist is breaking law. But does that make him unpatrotic, NO. But say a person denounces his country at an international forum is unpatriotic (what he is saying may be true and lawful).



Love without action is as good as dead. Loving your country is not a feeling but it is an action.
If one doesn’t DO the right thing for his country, he is definitely not loving his country, he is selfish. He just feels that he loves his country and fools himself.
[/tscii:bcd5f46e73]

I am sorry but Love is just a feeling whether its for a person or a country.

But if you call the feelings of someone who doesnt agree to you as fooling then there is no scope of debate.

It will be FOOLISH for a FOOL to argue with someone who considers him FOOl. (wow what does that mean :? )

[Sandeep]

In my opinion Patriotism is
Not bringing down another country but bringing your country up.
In other words its not raising slogans against Pakistan
but
its not spitting on the roads,
its not throwing a banana peel on the road,
its paying taxes,
its not bribing the traffic constable when you ran a red light,
its standing in attention when Jana Gana Mana is played,
its not fighting for some obscure peice of land in Hoganikkal.
Its all these small small things.

I dont like Pakistan - Am I unpatriotic
I am uneducated and have seem all people around me spitting on road and so by nature I spite on road. - Am I unpatriotic
Gandhiji said dont pay tax for salt - Was he unpatriotic
I will not get my license (even if I drive well) unless I bribe the RTO so I bribed - Am I unpatriotic
I was made to stand in heat from 8 in the morning to 1 PM till Jayapratha MP can. I was so tried I did stand during Jana Gana Mana - Am I unpatriotic

[Badri]

I was intrigued by this ongoing discussion and did a dictionary search for the exact meaning of Patriotism. Before each one of us in the Hub start giving out our own definitions of the word, let us consider what the dictionary defines it as:

Merriam Webster: Love for or devotion to one's country.

Another meaning from Dictionary.com says
Love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it

I think that about says it all!

[Manoj Kumar]

Another meaning from Dictionary.com says
Love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it

I think that about says it all!

Love and sacrifice are vague terms.
Just let us know, how does one love his country?
and what should one be willing to sacrifice?

I hope, I had answered that in my earlier posts.

[ssanjinika]

I dont like Pakistan - Am I unpatriotic? Not liking Pakistan is not the same as unwantedly getting involved in riots/processions/bandhs and generally bringing down the economy of our country!
I am uneducated and have seem all people around me spitting on road and so by nature I spite on road. - Am I unpatriotic?Where is your common sense????Even being uneducated do you spit inside your house??You dont consider the country yours thats why you spit on the roads!!
Gandhiji said dont pay tax for salt - Was he unpatriotic? When Gandhiji said that we were paying taxes to the Britishers!!!That time there was no OUR country!Is there any logic in your arguement??
I will not get my license (even if I drive well) unless I bribe the RTO so I bribed - Am I unpatriotic YES!!You are also increasing corruption by giving in to it!What you are is selfish!
I was made to stand in heat from 8 in the morning to 1 PM till Jayapratha MP can. I was so tried I did stand during Jana Gana Mana - Am I unpatriotic? You should have sat down before the start of our national anthem and stood when it was being sung

YES Sandeep IN MY OPINION Please note I said In my opinion..any act done which brings down the dignity,raises corruption etc etc of our country is being unpatriotic!

[Sandeep]

YES Sandeep IN MY OPINION Please note I said In my opinion

Hard to counter that :roll:

Sad but true by the standards mentioned I am not Patriotic at all because I have crossed yellow lines while driving and even driven without licence.

What makes me SADDER is the fact that it seems I will not be able to become patriotic in near future. :cry:

[Fire111999]

[tscii:8ce20f49c1]

Truly patriotic means following certain principles, which brings pride 8. Most important is do your work sincerely with time punctuality. You not doing your work properly can influence the entire chain of work. You not moving a file from your department can delay or cancel someone else job. Never deprive someone of anything because of your disregard or negligence. It can be any job. When you do your work to your at most ability in the stipulated time, this improves the productively of the country. When the productivity is high, people get work, they earn. Once they earn they also spend… they buy more than their basic needs… to cater their need… more business are opened… this creates more job. Ultimately, there is prosperity of the nation.



good one![/tscii:8ce20f49c1]

[Fire111999]

In my opinion Patriotism is
Not bringing down another country but bringing your country up.
In other words its not raising slogans against Pakistan
but
its not spitting on the roads,
its not throwing a banana peel on the road,
its paying taxes,
its not bribing the traffic constable when you ran a red light,
its standing in attention when Jana Gana Mana is played,
its not fighting for some obscure peice of land in Hoganikkal.
Its all these small small things.

very true. but sometimes it's really hard to do the small things like these. for eg, it is almost standard procedure to give bribes in certain offices. they even have a certain fixed rate for work to be done in a certain time. it's like tailors who have normal service, express service and urgent service for stitching the same blouse. but with tailors, it is their official fee, with these officers, they make it as close to official sth that is illegal can be. so how do you expect that pple can go around this?

[manyvan2000]

In my opinion Patriotism is
Not bringing down another country but bringing your country up.
In other words its not raising slogans against Pakistan
but
its not spitting on the roads,
its not throwing a banana peel on the road,
its paying taxes,
its not bribing the traffic constable when you ran a red light,
its standing in attention when Jana Gana Mana is played,
its not fighting for some obscure peice of land in Hoganikkal.
Its all these small small things.

very true. but sometimes it's really hard to do the small things like these. for eg, it is almost standard procedure to give bribes in certain offices. they even have a certain fixed rate for work to be done in a certain time. it's like tailors who have normal service, express service and urgent service for stitching the same blouse. but with tailors, it is their official fee, with these officers, they make it as close to official sth that is illegal can be. so how do you expect that pple can go around this?

Dont relate patriotism with standing up for a song that we dont understand or to the law. Do you expect everyone to learn "national anthem language", in addition to the so called "national language", not to mention the "international language" and the local language along with their mother tongue. come on .. be practical.

As for the law, it changes with the government. I dont support bribing, but I cant call that as non patriotic, when we have to bribe. The same, if done by the government is called "service fee" or "convenience charge" and the like.. This is not specific to India, for instance, to get the US visa you pay $3000, wait for upto 90 days. But you can get it in 2 weeks if you pay a $1000 more. What do you call this?

I do have a lot of friends who are cops (both in US and India). In India, they get a bicycle, roam all day around in the hot sun, take directions from good for nothing / uneducated politicians all this for a meagre INR 3000 - 5000, which is half the money to lead a 'normal' life in India. The cops in US, get cars to roam around, have the latest arms and equipments, do not care who you are - they make a minimum of around $3500 - twice the money you need to live luxuriously in the US. Dont say India is a poor country. The Indian cops are definitely pathetic and it becomes worse when they get married. I have seen cops beg for a cup of tea / a cigarette.

There is absolutely no need to overdo our jobs. If we just do our jobs, it is patriotism. We can see all the expected results just by this. Be sincere in whatever you do. Try to understand people like the cops. Have you ever bought, at the least, one cup of tea to a cop standing under the sun for the whole day? Doing things like these show patriotism.

[goodsense]

:lol: "Have you ever bought, at the least, one cup of tea to a cop standing under the sun for the whole day? Doing things like these show patriotism."


Can't help it man :D

[Fire111999]

Dont relate patriotism with standing up for a song that we dont understand or to the law. Do you expect everyone to learn "national anthem language", in addition to the so called "national language", not to mention the "international language" and the local language along with their mother tongue. come on .. be practical.

As for the law, it changes with the government. I dont support bribing, but I cant call that as non patriotic, when we have to bribe. The same, if done by the government is called "service fee" or "convenience charge" and the like.. This is not specific to India, for instance, to get the US visa you pay $3000, wait for upto 90 days. But you can get it in 2 weeks if you pay a $1000 more. What do you call this?

I do have a lot of friends who are cops (both in US and India). In India, they get a bicycle, roam all day around in the hot sun, take directions from good for nothing / uneducated politicians all this for a meagre INR 3000 - 5000, which is half the money to lead a 'normal' life in India. The cops in US, get cars to roam around, have the latest arms and equipments, do not care who you are - they make a minimum of around $3500 - twice the money you need to live luxuriously in the US. Dont say India is a poor country. The Indian cops are definitely pathetic and it becomes worse when they get married. I have seen cops beg for a cup of tea / a cigarette.

There is absolutely no need to overdo our jobs. If we just do our jobs, it is patriotism. We can see all the expected results just by this. Be sincere in whatever you do. Try to understand people like the cops. Have you ever bought, at the least, one cup of tea to a cop standing under the sun for the whole day? Doing things like these show patriotism.

do u see that if the fees were official, it's be the same as paying taxes. but since it's not official, it's going into the pockets of the officials not to the country!

i agree with you that india should pay itself officers, and other employees a hgiher salary.

and i agree with you that just doing your job properly is patriotism.