A shame [Archive]

Badri

1st March 2005, 06:56 AM

Our impressionable youth are perhaps not ready yet to digest global liberty standards.

A very very valid statement! While we go on and on about freedom of expression, we are overlooking the fact that our exposure to the "free culture" is a bit too fast.

At the risk of sounding cliched, I would say, "culture shock" about sums it up.

Our movies and media are opening up all of a sudden to embrace the idealogy of no holds barred, without assessing the impact on society. If we lack the maturity to handle this exposure, we are just not ready! If our youth, instead of being more responsible, are actually becoming more and more perverted, then it is high time something is done about it. But, to again use a cliche, who is to bell the cat?

In these times, I think the focus shifts entirely on parents, if they would desire the well being of their children. They have a responsibility of enforcing rather strict rules when it comes to TV watching at home. If something is sleaze, it just must not be encouraged. Instead, I see parents actually cheering their three-year olds when they imitate the hip-thrusting moves seen in movie dance sequences. With parents like these, who needs societal perverts?

Again, parents must try to engender an open home atmosphere, where children can discuss issues like sexual harrassment without either party feeling shy or shameful. That is the harsh reality of our times; gone are the days when these things could be considered taboo and no one spoke of them! At least, not definitely parents and children. Our parents could afford to do that because we were not so much at risk in our childhood or adolscence.

But if we must protect our children today, I think we have to overcome our natural hesitation and encourage our children to open up if they are being harrassed in any way at all.

Querida

1st March 2005, 07:06 AM

Instead, I see parents actually cheering their three-year olds when they imitate the hip-thrusting moves seen in movie dance sequences. With parents like these, who needs societal perverts?

that's very true...I have seen the very same...shameful really, now they are cheering later they will be scolding that it is inproper so what's the kid supposed to think? Behaviour is corrected only when reinforcement and punishment is consistent!

I agree very much with all you other views Badri...thanx for writing them out so clearly...

Badri

1st March 2005, 09:15 AM

Thanks Q.

But what can one post do when there are so many parents out there blind to the harm they are causing to their own children in the name of more freedom?

Wish I can raise the general level of awareness of people to this issue...then I would consider it a job well done!

If at least, the parents in here in the Hub take cognisance of the reality, and try to make their friends and others see reason as well, we will truly be moving in the right direction.

jaiganes

1st March 2005, 10:10 AM

I guess this thread can be clubbed with violence against women thread. what d y all say?

Roshan

1st March 2005, 10:30 AM

Exactly Jaiganesh!! No need for a separate thread.

blahblah

1st March 2005, 11:02 AM

Hi Guys,I feel this should be a separate thread as the other one discusses violence against women in general.Probably this should have been named 'Juvenile crimes'.But that's up to Mrs.PP.

As for the subject,we are foced to address the result as we neither have the resources nor the determination to address the cause.

I would like to narrate a little incident here:

One evening,around 8.30,I landed at the Pune railway station and was walking up to the road.There are several homeless people sleeping in the station compound.I noticed a particularly intoxicated boy,may be ten or twelve years old,coming from the opposite direction.At the same time a cute and well dressed girl of the same age was coming from my direction.When we reached that boy,he started showing obscene gestures to the girl and danced down to her as though to touch her[he almost touched her on her stomach],singing something,irrespective of the fact that there were several onlookers around.This poor little thing gave out a little screech with much of her voice swallowed due to fear.

I recovered from the initial shock,and since I was the nearest onlooker,took him by the collar and gave him a fine slap on the face.This guy ran a few steps, turned back arrogantly and gave me a little 'gali',which I took coolly,threatening with another slap :D .

Now the interesting fact is that most guys who have witnessed this simply laughed as though they have seen a great joke :x .And if that boy's 'folk',were around,I would have been in a compromising situation. :?

In this case is he the victim or the culprit?I would say both.But as we do not have the resources to see him as the victim and rehabilitate him,we are forced to see him as th culprit and punish him.

And may be, that's the only way open to us! :shock:

By the way,I was wondering what that little girl[looks as though she belongs to a wealthy family,she had a few shopping items with her too]was doing there at that hour :x .I felt the same amount of anger to her parents as to that boy.

pavalamani pragasam

1st March 2005, 11:12 AM

Please, jaiganes, let this thread be separate. This is also violence against women, no doubt. But I want an awareness created emphatically about the delicate issue of adolescent misbehaviour aided and abetted by the MEDIA.

Roshan

1st March 2005, 11:17 AM

Yes Jaiganesh ! PP and blahblah have got a point , I feel now !

jaiganes

1st March 2005, 11:26 AM

Sure No probs for me!
I had come across some discussions with lordstanher in that thread pertaining to this topic. Maybe moderators can move certain relevant posts there to this thread to beef it up.

blahblah

1st March 2005, 11:57 AM

I want an awareness created emphatically about the delicate issue of adolescent misbehaviour aided and abetted by the MEDIA.

The media does it really!They do certainly aid adolescent crimes[though involuntarily] and then sensationalise the issue.It was due to the media that the two thirteen year olds in the Mobile phone clip case didn't get a chance to correct the mistakes of their youth.Now both the boy and girl are tainted for life. :x

scorpio

1st March 2005, 12:03 PM

[quote=" In these times, I think the focus shifts entirely on parents, if they would desire the well being of their children. They have a responsibility of enforcing rather strict rules when it comes to TV watching at home. If something is sleaze, it just must not be encouraged. Instead, I see parents actually cheering their three-year olds when they imitate the hip-thrusting moves seen in movie dance sequences. With parents like these, who needs societal perverts?[/quote]

Badri,

Very true. I really feel the burden of educating my daughters to courageously face the world. It is true that parents lead the way for what their children become. I am really afraid that my children will get influenced seeing those sickening serials and violent films. This is the reason why I have stopped completely watching those so-called family dramas for the past couple of years and encourage them to be away from TV after 7 pm once the kids serials get over.
Unfortunately, they still learn in bits and pieces from their school friends who don't have any restrictions. Will you believe, one of my daughter's class mate openly tells that her aim in life is to be a film heroine, carried away by the hip-swaying dances in colorful costumes!!

Badri

1st March 2005, 12:36 PM

Will you believe, one of my daughter's class mate openly tells that her aim in life is to be a film heroine, carried away by the hip-swaying dances in colorful costumes!!

You are right Scorpio, and it is not in the least surprising. I think parenthood brings on certain responsibilities and entails certain sacrifices, whether we like it or not. You have done well in sacrificing your TV viewing time, in the interests of your children, because unless you stay away, there is no way you can prevent them from being influenced. If we eat up all the sleaze in front of our children, we have no moral ground to restrict them.

Of course, if we elect to live our lives any damm way we want, we will just have to sit back and watch all these crimes ruin the lives of our children. But if we don't, then there is no other option for us than to first sacrifice on our part and then ensure our kids imbibe the right values.

Of course, there is no way we can play the role of a watchdog every minute. There are societal influences, peer pressure and other forces well beyond our control, but if we can inculcate in them a value system, coupled with good sense, we can go a long way in curbing these wrong tendencies that creep into our kids.

I noticed a particularly intoxicated boy,may be ten or twelve years old,coming from the opposite direction.

If they are beginning to lose the sense of right and wrong at that age, even before they fully cultivate them, what hope lies for them in the future? As I mentioned earlier, I just seriously hope this thread would raise the level of awareness of everyone who reads it (whether a parent now or would be in the future) and realize how serious the situation is, and what a vital role theirs is to play.

Shakthiprabha.

1st March 2005, 01:46 PM

However strict the laws are laid, such crimes would happen (may be mitigated cause of strict law).

The solution is in the hands of parents, to educate the child, NOT TO INDULGE IN DANGEROUS RAGGING...

and for the parents of girl childreN...

1. TEACH THEM TO FACE RAGGING
2. ASK THEM TO GANG UP WITH OTHER GIRLS AND RAG
3. ASK THEM TO COMPLAIN TO POLICE(!! WOULD IT WORK??)
4. BEFRIEND THEM AND you BECOME THEIR BEST FRIENDS, SO THAT
ANY PROB COMES TO U FIRST RATHER THAN FINIDNG SOLUTION WITH A ROPE OR POISON.
5. teach them to be BRAVE.
6. EDUCATE THEM that law is in favour of anyone being ragged or sexually harassed.

Suggestions can be had....when situation arise...how ppl faces them depends on their surroundings, parent's education, and above all DESTINY.

VERY SAD INDEED :(

a.ratchasi

1st March 2005, 02:13 PM

Any boy and girl child should be taught on differentiating between good touch and bad ones.

It is a necessity nowdays to teach children to protect themselves.

If they feel uncomfortable around certain people, as adults, the onus is on us to find out what is causing them the uneasyness.

Besides, anyone around us could be a perv, be it a close family member, a distant relative or a stranger.

Ideally, the child should be bold enough to approach his or her parents if encountered a perv.

Sandeep

1st March 2005, 02:42 PM

Parents should understand that parenting is not just feeding their children, or giving what they want.

Here in case of the Victims parents they should have made sure that their daughter feels free with them and can disclose all her problems.

As for the parents of the Accused, they should have taught them dicipline, respect/love for others.

Parenting in not just a personal think it is a social responcibility too.

Querida

2nd March 2005, 10:14 PM

I know that most parents would like to protect their child from all harm...now Scorpio i will tell you from a child's view that however much you are and Badri are strict at home...it is education that is more important...don't make such sleaze television programs unacceptable you only encourage the seemingly exciting taboo element of it rather educate, and ask of your children to be responsible there is no good reason for them to get influenced by sleaze if they have a educated view....and if not at home (even if they do not want to) they will learn it elsewhere...dont make the bad look tempting rather show it for the filth it is...let your child be responsible....i have seen too many cases of parents being too strict and their child (even though a good child) goes down the wrong path....please parents NEVER think my child is not like that ONE (that doesnt mean being overly suspicious but building up stereotypes about another and letting your own go to ruin) or that could never happen to my child because i am in control! and worse please DO NOT compare your child's behaviour to another child/sibling/cousin....because just as your child may make her/his mistakes known to you...you do not know the faults of the other...(you would be surprised how many parents dont know or ignore what troubles their child gets into whatever age) it really hurts a child when you compare...eventually this only leads to resentment even when you are trying to teach them the right thing to do

if children respects their parent they will fear in their hearts of hearts to do wrong...and hence think harder on it beacuse they will know how it will hurt their loving parent
if they fear their parent they are morely likely to feel liberated in overcoming that fear even if it is to do something bad...

i'm sorry maybe i am being to naive but from a child's view and experience this is what i want to contribute

Badri

3rd March 2005, 04:29 AM

Q

You are right on! Putting something out of reach only makes you want it all the more.

But...yes, you knew there was a but coming, didnt you...but tell me, are not the laws the world over clear on certain things? Does not every country believe children should be protected from viewing, even by chance, things that may impact their impressionable minds? Are not people made punishable for showing or otherwise making available to minors indecent literature, photographs or other explicit information? It is with this same view point that I made my statement as well.

You say if a person has an educated view, there is no good reason for him/her to be influenced by sleaze. But again, there are some primal urges in all of us that require no prompting. They act on their own, educated view or not. But while this can be put off till a certain mental maturity is attained, to put it in their reach even before they know right from wrong - that is not acceptable at all.

A child's point of view is all fine and dandy...the great problem of today is that we are giving too much importance to the child's POV, without understanding how limited the child's POV really is. There is moderation in everything, including discipline, but at the same time, moderation should not become laxity. It is for parents to take the call on how moderate or extreme they wish to be, given all the environmental conditions that surround them.

Querida

3rd March 2005, 08:35 AM

Yes sir i thought hmmm what's that an agreement :shock: ok what's this all about got scared till i saw the but... :P

anyways yes you all must forgive for having gone on so passionately...i did mean parents with just little kids...but i guess i still have to answer to what was written

yes there are certain laws but they do not keep us confined to our houses in fear that we will disobey them...i meant sleaze tv as in the more than enuff modern dancing numbers and MTV not Porn! Good God not that!

no GOOD reason as in no one could say i didn't know that...they do know but that they give in cannot be disputed...i am not saying it will not happen but can we really make sure things like this never happen? I am not saying that to show them all sleaze at a young age is ok i am only saying not to utterly forbid...and yes do give them a reason why instead of just no cause i said so! That doesn't mean that punishing them if you catch them at it is wrong either...but appropriate punishment for appropriate circumstances like no tv for a day or two not beating the child...

Yes i agree moderation should not become laxity and it is the parent's call but do remember that extreme still doesn't mean always being suspicious and insinuating blame for every move

I don't know if i answered all your questions/comments efficiently but i am glad that you took the time to actually read my post and point out the flaws...it shows that atleast i am being taken seriously...do reply again :D

Cygnus

3rd March 2005, 08:40 AM

Badri, I just read thru this thread, I guess I know where the post in the other thread about child's POV came from.
:)

It was an empirical statement, not meant to offend concerned parents!!
As someone who grew up in era where a child's POV didn't mean squat, I guess I tend to focus on it. Of course, "moderation" is the key, if one can figure what exactly is considered moderation,; it is definitely bound to sway a great deal on either side depending on the perspective :)

Badri

3rd March 2005, 08:57 AM

A serious discussion merits being taken seriously, don't you agree?

The whole point with things like this is pretty much subjective, and as such no general rules can be drawn.

There are families that will raise eyebrows if a son as much as gets a call from a girl who studies in the same class. Then again, there are families where mothers actually talk to sons about how to actually do "it".

But the only point I wish to drive home is this - parenting is an individual and social responsibility. The incident that started off this discussion was a direct result of poor parenting. So, the consequences of that did not stop with the one family. It has gone and affected an innocent girl and her family and her circle of friends...

The fundamental question - what went wrong?

The urge to dominate - politically, emotionally, financially, sexually - is also deep rooted within most males. Portraying that on TV or in films is not helping matters, only worsening it, because the jeuvenile male then gets the message clearly seared in his brain that not only is this right, it is actually the cool thing to do.

Ok, so you and I can't go and stop the film makers, but we can act within our sphere of influence - our children. In two ways.

a) Act to make sure they are protected
b) Act to make sure they grow up to be decent, and not a threat to others

Yes, you can impress upon them the truth, educate them, beat them over the head with it, but if at the end of the day, you are going to give them opportunities to do the wrong thing, chances are they will do it...you don't need Murphy to tell you that, with his immortal laws.

Some of the hip-swivelling movements are so gross (don't take me to be a prude, please...but some movements are positively vulgar) that they are not the things I want my children to imitate, at least, not until they are ready for it, because after that, it is entirely their choice, and there is precious little I can do about it. After all, I am not training them to be monks and nuns.

But that said, I'd rather they grow up within certain bounds so that they at least get to the point of making intelligent choices. Some mistakes in life can be too costly, and nothing you do afterwards can really make amends. I would not, nor would any sane parent, like their child to end up making one of those mistakes. And whatever is in my control to ensure that - I will do.

Phew! Now, I got to get back to work...

Badri

3rd March 2005, 09:08 AM

Cygnus said:

Badri, I just read thru this thread, I guess I know where the post in the other thread about child's POV came from.

There, I am not alllowed to work in peace...now, I have to respond to this one...damm, hubbing is addictive! They ought have to put up a notice in the registration page...Moderators, please take note!! Get something that says, "Signing up could be ruinous to your work. You have been warned"

Anyway, Cygnus, I agree with you - we all grew up in an age where our POVs meant nothing at all. But I tell ya, that is why we are what we are, and where we are.

Your child (if you have one, that is..if not, your future child) probably thinks being an engine driver is the coolest job in the whole world...that's what he will say for about a month after his first trip on a train "I want to be an engine driver when I grow up"

But that is only till he sees the fireman, for as every child knows, that is the coolest job ever! And so on and so forth, till finally dictated by terms more practical and definitely more lucrative, he probably ends up being a globe-trotting, hip and upwardly mobile software engineer.

There is nothing more pliable in all the world as a child's mind. It is most definitely not the right thing to base decisions upon. Which was why I came out against the child's POV. Come, come, after all, I was a child not too long ago...and sometimes, still think am.

Roshan

3rd March 2005, 09:26 AM

Moderators, please take note!! Get something that says, "Signing up could be ruinous to your work. You have been warned"

Good one !! but I'm sure most of us would click the 'ignore' button and start proceeding :D

jaiganes

3rd March 2005, 09:26 AM

After having gone through the heated arguments in this thread, things are more clearer. Just to organize my thoughts, let me restate certain things. There are distinctively 3 elements in the aforesaid incident.
1. victim
2. aggressors(the boys)
3. parents
4. Media.

Surely Media is an indrect catalyst to the whole incident.
Parents are supposed to be the watchdogs who must have prevented such a shameful thing from happening.
victim and aggressors in this case are both innocent children who surely know not what they are doing. Neither the boys who hurt the girl knew that violence they were propagating was of psychological nature, nor the girl knew that suicide is a perfect solution. Media and Parents surely must have been more mature and protected these kids from wavering and losing their precious lives.
Focussing more on media, the portrayal of women victims and their decision in popular media like cinema and TV serials leaves a lot to be desired. In both these popular media, the course of action of any woman victim takes is either to marry the aggressor (yuck!) or to end her life(pathetic and which is what this girl has done). cinema from time immemorial has portrayed that ending life in face of victimisation is the only way to save oneself from dishonour. Turning to TV serials, similar line of thought permeates here too, sadly.
Parents, are supposed to show Love and care to children. Modern day parents(not all) are simply parents because they must have children or else the society will laugh at them. I have seen mothers feeding their babies by showing TV(!!) Now further complexities are added to the picture with more nuclear families with no grandparents to guide young children. TV it seems is the father, mother, grandparents, friend all combined these days. To expect un preverted psyches from these TV parented children is very difficult. victims we see are actually TV victims and perverts who abuse are also direct products of TV and media. Parents are just payors of rent and providers of food these days.
How to end this problem? Like scorpio says and does, remove TV from children. make them feel "REAL" people and less of "TV people". Take them to a park on sundays instead of malls and multiplexes. in short relieve the TV of surrogate parent status and assume parenting seriously, much more than the urge to stay back for half an hour in office to please your boss (this is for fathers who seem to be weekend uncles for most of the kids). Media is a devil you can't slay, better keep your flock safe from it.

Badri

3rd March 2005, 09:29 AM

Well summarized, JG. As Obelix would say, "Zigackly!"

scorpio

3rd March 2005, 10:08 AM

Badri / JG,

Read thru' your posts. Very well written. Couldn't have put it better myself.

Q, Your point on something that is kept out of reach becoming attractive is also very true from child's point of view. I too have that fear in me that even if I prohibit, my daughter will anyway learn from school friends. I make it a point to spend time in the night to ask her about what all happened in school. I do ask about what lessons teachers took in each period and also how did she get along with her friends. At times, she does tell me bizarre incidents like Love letters written by one boy in the class ( she is in Class 6, a bit early for all this nonsense) to another, what make-up items ( like compact, lip stick etc) some girls bring to class etc. I try my best to address such issues, the risk of one's future getting spoilt if you take schooling lightly and also tell her how to handle such situations as she has an additional responsibility of being the class leader as well.

Once, she herself was a victim of such bullying with short love verses written in the girl's toilet in her name. She was bold enough to ignore it, inform the teachers to erase it from the walls and wonder with me at the ignorance of a boy whose identity was unknown to us.

I think we should have a separate thread to discuss issues of parenting. After all, today's children build the nation tomorrow!

jaiganes

3rd March 2005, 10:27 AM

Haaa! scorpio!
you have inadvertently brought up another player in the whole drama. It is the school. We hear a lot of disturbing noises about school these days. Again as most of the modern day kids are TV parented and "friends" parented these days, even a small insult or rebuke from teachers (who try to discipline) in front of their peers drives them to extreme feeling of guilt and shame. This was not the case in our days. I hold the record for inviting maximum number of cane beatings on my knuckles when I was in school. These days however, co-ed schools have risen while TV is still busy creating romantic images of a boy and a girl. This means that schools have to adopt sensitive methods of disciplining erring kids. Maybe in private a teacher can "teach" an erring kid a lesson.eg., I got a tight slap from my Chemistry teacher once. Later he realised his mistake and apologized to me. Everything was cool between us as nothing got out. However failing to do so, these super sensitive kids who are not taught the fraility and reality of real life by elders take extreme steps like suicide. It is another pathetic story that certain parents themselves take the teacher in question into task by getting him/her dismissed, arrested and humiliated. Not to say that teachers are completely honest, but a bad apple is expected to pop up here and there.

pavalamani pragasam

3rd March 2005, 10:55 AM

I second Scorpio's opinion! Badri, I find no words to appreciate your words of wisdom. They are very familiar to mine. I thought I am a pathetic singular upholder for some important codes of life for children & adults. I admire the clarity, the confidence with which you have expressed the views which I repeat are surprisingly cent percent similar to mine. kudos for a fine job done! And jaiganes, I am proud to hear your golden words of practical wisdom. I had almost derspaired the world has has sunk to utter ruins! But now I feel rejuvenated, energy-boosted, to have so many sensible people around, willing to set the minds on the right track. Thanx, everybody!

Roshan

3rd March 2005, 11:12 AM

Excellent views by every one !! kudos guys !!! :D

blahblah

3rd March 2005, 11:28 AM

I make it a point to spend time in the night to ask her about what all happened in school. I do ask about what lessons teachers took in each period and also how did she get along with her friends. I try my best to address such issues

Scorpio,I can see a great mother in you since I have seen another one. :)

Troubled marital lives and abnormal parental behaviour are the main reasons,according to me, for juvenile crimes.Take almost all cases of juvenile crimes and there will be a history of alcoholism,drug addiction,adultery,divorce,domestic violence or cruelty.Most parents do not spend enough time for their children these days.If a family was to form his character, today that role is taken up by the media.The good old habit of reading is almost extinct.

The factory of character is not school,not at all school,but family.I have seen real thugs in the best schools :( .Are they to be blamed if your child goes astray?Not at all.

IT IS THE LOVE AND SHARING BETWEEN A HUSBAND AND WIFE THAT EDUCATES THEIR CHILDREN :) -NOT SCHOOL BOOKS,NOT THE TEACHERS.

A little mind learns from examples,not from creative thinking.The urge to imitate, rules supreme over the urge to think.That's why they want to be a Policeman when they see one and Engine Driver when they see him.

So give them enough examples. :)

jaiganes

3rd March 2005, 01:52 PM

blahblah wrote:

NOT SCHOOL BOOKS,NOT THE TEACHERS.

I agree with you partially. But with nuclear families and both parents working, an adolscent child gets to spen more time at school with classmates and teachers. If teachers can be shrewd and responsible, they can solve so many of the child'd problems. They can act as active catalysts to young minds. Have seen the movie "Pay it Forward", for godsake it was a true story. I have seen such stories happen in real life where a kid born into a difficult household has been guided by a responsible teacher.

Sandeep

3rd March 2005, 02:56 PM

Parents are finding difficulty in managing one or two kids then how can teachers to do that for 40 or 50 students in class. Yes incidents of teachers helping students are there but there is a limit to what they can do.

Sure teachers can be role models and they should be but at the end every boy want to be like his father and daughter like her mother.

I still remember a coversation with my late father when I was 8. Influenced by some movie I asked my father why he doesnt do some financial scam in some purchase he was doing. I dont remember what he said but I know such things are BAD. No amount of education or preaching is going to bring that kind of effect.

pavalamani pragasam

3rd March 2005, 04:54 PM

Schooling as seen in these days, the syllabus, the temperament of the teachers(utter lack of dedication for the profession as was seen in the past), the goal of education- a vast ocean for discussion and pouring agonizing grievances!!! No moral science, civics, physical instruction periods allotted in the time table of today’s school children; the syllabus is oriented for academic knowledge of a narrow circle devoid of compulsory practical, vocational training of whatever sort; teachers indifferent to explain their subject which they scheme to teach to those who will take private tuitions under them after school hours; the rat race for securing seat in professional colleges; the cut-off mark for the entrance exams to these courses chasing them like spectres; parents goading them, treating them like racehorses, sending them off to coaching classes depriving their wards of sufficient sleep, relaxed moments of friendly interaction, family recreation, beneficial physical activity, enlightening mental activity; a totally edgy situation where the students find no way to blossom naturally, no harmless, healthy channels for venting their natural effervescence- this is a mind-boggling scenario, a real, tough challenge for those sincerely wishing for the good of the young generation.

nirosha sen

3rd March 2005, 06:34 PM

Oh my God Pava!!! You just described the exact same situation we have here in Malaysia, Pa!!!!

Out here it's racism thrown in as well which makes it even more difficult for minority race children to receive better guidance. Religion is the other bone of contention!! Through this haze of indifference, a child indeed has to be born a genius to sift thru the good, bad and ugly to come out unscathed, Pa!!

lordstanher

5th March 2005, 02:36 PM

Sorry didn't notice this thread until today! Neways.......

Where are we going?

My answer wud be down the bottomless pit of perversity! :evil:

What is happening to our society?

The answerz again in my above reply- pervsersity!

Who is responsible for this degeneration of our youth?

Lets close our eyes & take our pick- ne of these wud be the right answer: The youth themselves w/ their disregard 4 our culture/values, the ever-present media w/ films (& even magazines) getting worse to worst yet still being enjoyed by our double-standard society, the misuse of advanced technology in our country and the laxity of laws in our country against such acts!

Is it not time some steps were taken to curb the unlicensed vulgarity in the silver screen?

A qsn. tat has been unaswered for decades together already! The Indian silver screen has turned into a long-lasting symbol of the two-face society tat we r living in! For years I've heard ppl. in our country criticising the West and their movies on the grounds of 'vulgarity' but ironically they don't find it irksome to watch our own movies tat depict women (& also violence against girls/women) so blatantly..... :evil: :evil:

lordstanher

5th March 2005, 02:52 PM

...If teachers can be shrewd and responsible, they can solve so many of the child'd problems. They can act as active catalysts to young minds......I have seen such stories happen in real life where a kid born into a difficult household has been guided by a responsible teacher.

JG, ur no doubt rite in this regard! Also in response to comments tat say tat teachers in India r not really committed to their jobs, I daresay tat as a schoolkid, I used to think more or less the same- tat all teachers in schools only knew how to beat/scold and fail students....... :wink:
But then, when I was in 10th class and undergoing a psychological problem (sorry don't want to describe it in detail here!), twas my Biology/class tchr plus a few other kind teachers as well, who'd helped me a lot w/ their talks.....also when I was in Intermediate (+2), there was this very nice old English lecturer of ours who used to show very gr8 concern (apart from studies) towards me.... :thumbsup:
But nevertheless, as the saying goes, JG, parents are our first teachers! And most Indian parents- well, mothers atleast- used to be perfect mentors for moulding their kids' characters! Sadly, in recent times, there has been a decline in this kind of attitude from the parents' side, altho of course there still r ideal mothers even in today's society, such as Scorpio here! :D

jaiganes

7th March 2005, 09:11 AM

/***************digression
lordstanher wrote:

still r ideal mothers even in today's society, such as Scorpio here!
yes and a good akka too (sister).
*****************/ end digression

Badri

7th March 2005, 09:14 AM

yes and a good akka too (sister).
*****************/ end digression
:clap: Scorpio Akka....

scorpio

7th March 2005, 09:30 AM

Badri /JG,

Intha thread-layum aarambichuteengala!! :twisted:

JG,

Special thanks for calling me just 'sister' and not 'very old sister'. :wink:

Badri

7th March 2005, 09:38 AM

Sorry for the digression, but this was too tempting..

Special thanks for calling me just 'sister' and not 'very old sister'.

Akka...this is what in hindi is called, "Aa bhail mujhe maar" aka shooting oneself in the foot! As it is we are bad, why give us ideas???? :wink:

scorpio

7th March 2005, 09:40 AM

**********Digression

Badri,

You have a lot to catch up with Jai Ganesu Thambi!! I am now immune to all his teasers! Such a seasoned akka I have become!!

Now, now, pl. spare this thread!

********End digression

jaiganes

7th March 2005, 10:29 AM

scorpio akka wrote:

I am now immune to all his teasers! Such a seasoned akka I have become!!

You dont know what I am capable of. BTW I had been to this place.. what is it?... yeah now I remember, chennai!. yuck. such a humid place. can't believe this Dory Harry sister lives in that city.

scorpio

7th March 2005, 10:36 AM

Hubbers,

Pl. visit 'Reaching yr workplace-Interesting Travelogues' thread for an array of experiences in the yucky, humid and Dory Harry's sister's city-Chennai narrated by our 'MG Road hero' JG. Dont take it religiously, but I remember the saying - Saathan vedham odhugirathu! :poke:

jaiganes

7th March 2005, 10:57 AM

scorpio akka!

'MG Road hero' JG
I will take it as a compliment.

THFI

7th March 2005, 03:49 PM

Its sickening...I feel sorry for that girl. Does these happen in other socities too or only in Tamilnadu?

Querida

7th March 2005, 09:51 PM

Well the crime itself happens every sadly but the manner in which the crime was brought about and that as punishment for yet another 'criminal' act....i think that only happens in indian areas with tribal councils no? :?

pavalamani pragasam

11th March 2005, 08:55 PM

This week’s Anantha Vikadan, a popular Tamil weekly, carries an article which is at once extremely shocking and saddening. I continue to nurse serious grudges against the magazine for succumbing to the substandard tactics of cheap entertainment to survive in the wretched rat race for circulation; but such occasional articles are true to its old, real altruistic tradition of showing concern for social good.
The article is a report, ”Beware! There may be a criminal growing up in your home too!” (“ushaar! UngkaL vIttilum oru kiriminal vaLaRalaam!”)It is explicit with real incidents of adolescent crimes aided and abetted by the callous media-all branches of it- the role of parents, schools, their responsibility for what is happening, verdicts of police, doctors & counselors clearly indicating the prevalent trends and the seriousness of the situation.

pavalamani pragasam

11th March 2005, 08:56 PM

hehehewalrus

12th March 2005, 12:11 AM

PP, while I am not amused by clutching-at-straw magazines desperate to catch the reader's eyeball, there are some positives out of this. It is a typically Indian trait to sweep everything under the carpet and pretend that crimes of a gross or perverse nature do not happen, when the actual truth is that only 10% of such happenings spill out into the open and provoke the community to take collective measures to handle it. Agreed magazines like Outlook/Joo Vi do anything to sell, but some good does happened when they blow the lid. It is far more painful to deal with difficult events individually than when the social consciousness is stirred up.

One of my friends' got his younger brother to talk to dozens and dozens of college first years when the kid was completing school - it was his method of preparing his kid brother's psyche to face the horrific ragging that goes on in his hometown colleges...basically he just wanted to get the kid into a mindset that isnt stung or shocked by grim reality - training up his mind how not to lose focus when confronted by adverse change.

mellon

12th March 2005, 03:37 AM

But some good does happened when they blow the lid.

Like what? The following?

One of my friends' got his younger brother to talk to dozens and dozens of college first years when the kid was completing school - it was his method of preparing his kid brother's psyche to face the horrific ragging that goes on in his hometown colleges...basically he just wanted to get the kid into a mindset that isnt stung or shocked by grim reality - training up his mind how not to lose focus when confronted by adverse change.

Which magazine gets the credit for it besides the good brother? :?

mellon

12th March 2005, 03:46 AM

Junior vikatan is awful. Humans commit crime because of ignorance. But the crimes committed by responsible educated people those who run magazines like JV should be "unforgiven",. The way JV giving attractive vulgar titles and explaining thess stories in a filthy manner is worse than those days dinathanthi's articles. That is nothing but doing "you know what" for money!

The interesting part is that the older sister of the "JV", AV is a real "paththini"- never publish anything taboo. It is a joke if JV justifies that it cares about the society and trying to straighten out people by sharing these incidents in an "attractive manner"! 8)

lordstanher

13th March 2005, 12:53 PM

It is a common misconception among parents/teachers tat adolescents who go astray & indulge in such unwanted pursuits r definitely 'back-benchers' who're uninterested/lagging behind in studies etc. whereas those who're above-avg. students r always 'good'......but from my experience, I find it to be not necessarily so, and infact its more of a stereotyping.....
I rem. coming across even students who were among top-rankers in my class and seldom scored below average.....yet they were very much backward in character/conduct while projecting a 'model student' image in front of parents/teachers! Sumtimes these guys used to actually mix w/ the 'bad' students and join them in their illicit indulgences as well.....! Parents/teachers in our country must not stereotype students based on their marks in exams/ranks in class.

pavalamani pragasam

13th March 2005, 02:53 PM

What you say is very correct, lordstanher! Academic performance has nothing to do with the students' behaviour & inclinations & activities.

oohlala

17th March 2005, 05:49 PM

Akash

17th March 2005, 05:59 PM

PP, I saw "Kungumam" weekly's Add on TV...
"Ungal Kanavar meethu... ANTHA Santhegama" Check panna sila kelvigal?? Its the CORE of missusing Medias for personal gains....

Trans:: "IF you suspect yr Husband, here's some questions to check him" So what's happening PP?? Y Media ppl not bothered to think they gonna affect some Immature Wife's mentality and attitude towards her Husband??

scorpio

17th March 2005, 06:02 PM

Akash,

I thought you still had lot of time before worrying about such articles! :lol: Enjoy bachelorhood, dear!

Akash

17th March 2005, 06:05 PM

:lol: :lol:
The thing is i really felt sick, the pic was like a WIfe with two kinds besides...... So they involve kids too!!

pavalamani pragasam

17th March 2005, 08:37 PM

Akash, you cant imagine what an intense rage I am seething at the monstrosities committed by the MEDIA. The printed & visual media are vying with each other in their criminal, commercialized, callous practices. The language, the matter taken for discussion, the manner of discussion everything is lacking in decency. The pictures they flaunt, the answers their question columns carry - everything is cause for worry. The particular topic you mentioned is sure to shatter the peace of many husbands. As it is today’s women lack self-confidence, that intuitive understanding of marital relationship, the trust that is essential for a happy marriage, such articles are sure to worsen matters. I cant but pity the poor men. I’m always on their side! The tinsel world is nothing but a promoter of flesh lust! In songs, dialogues, stories and dance movements- the dress, the demeanour, the insidious teachings - is the sort of entertainment a sane, a traditionally, culturally rich people need? A lone voice of mine should gather strength if anything good is to happen to our country & our people over the world.

Akash

17th March 2005, 09:36 PM

A lone voice of mine should gather strength if anything good is to happen to our country & our people over the world.

Swami vivekanada said "Give me a dozen of young ppl with good attitude!! i will try changing the world"..

Does the attitute towords the world is worst with us ppl?? after all the problems, the base seems to be on self benifit or Lust.. there are other things too.. But these couple of things are comes in hand in hand!!

Y ppl who promote could'nt understand, even their own bloods gonna get affected tmw or in near future??

lordstanher

18th March 2005, 10:09 AM

Its sickening...I feel sorry for that girl. Does these happen in other socities too or only in Tamilnadu?
It not only happens in TN and according to me this is something normal compared to Delhi. Here women cant go out side alone once the sun is set. And even in broad day light. When i was in 1st yr one of my senior was raped by two boys (14,12) inside our college old memorial and the fishy thing was the police booth was just 100 mtrs away from the place of incident.

This is really shocking as well as despicable! :evil: :evil:
I can't bleieve tat even boys as young as 12 yrs can actually commit rape! :shock: :x
This is truly a shame on our nation/culture tat we r so proud of! This only shows in wat direction our future genre. is going and therez nothing left of our society at this rate! ......I think in another 10-12 yrs, we'll hav as many juvenile criminals in India as in the US....or even more since the law is too impotent in our country to curb such crimes! :evil:
And nothing fishy even if the police booth was nearby to the place....Phoolan Devi in her autobiography tells tat she'd been raped inside a police station itself by policemen as a teenager.....!

lordstanher

18th March 2005, 11:04 AM

As it is today’s women lack self-confidence, that intuitive understanding of marital relationship, the trust that is essential for a happy marriage, such articles are sure to worsen matters. I cant but pity the poor men. I’m always on their side!

Altho I don't really know abt the articles from the magazines u r talking abt, I can guess from wat u say tat its got sumthing to do w/ projecting today's women as adultrous, lust-driven creatures who r described as becoming 'more expressive abt their sexuality/independence' and cr*p like tat! :evil: :twisted:
U mite rembr. tat India Today particularly had published an issue in Sept/Oct '03 abt a 'survey' they'd conducted on teenage girls & even married women in Indian cities reg. their sexual desires/activities and actually published qsns. like wat % of women had sex outside marriage, w/ how many men they had, wat % exchanged spouses etc. etc....this was sickening to the extreme :twisted: and like u, even I pity those husbands 4 wat they mite've been going thru on reading such innane 'surveys'! And more recently was their article on girls/women indulging in Internet Porn! :twisted:
Its a different issue that they mite be true/real-life society based but my qsn. to the media is wat comes out of presenting them in such a flamboyant way as if they r the most 'must-know-abt' element of todayz society?! :evil: :twisted:

The tinsel world is nothing but a promoter of flesh lust! In songs, dialogues, stories and dance movements- the dress, the demeanour, the insidious teachings - is the sort of entertainment a sane, a traditionally, culturally rich people need?

Again, u cudn't hav said it better! And incidentally, I read in a book tat back in the '80s, there was a women's activist group in Madras called 'Pennurai Iyyakkam' (hope I spelt it rite!) who took to throwing raw eggs at movie posters/banners tat depicted women in vulgar ways......wat became of them now? Don't they still exist?? I wish they do, I'm desperate to clutch at ne straw just as long as I know tat it fights the growing perversity of our society! :)

A lone voice of mine should gather strength if anything good is to happen to our country & our people over the world.

Mrs. PP, I assure u, ur voice is not 'lone'! Atleast u hav mine 4 support! However, voices alone r not as powerful. We need sumthing more to develop the spirit, the courage to fight this 'disease' in real life, just like Amitabh B who fought the wrongs of the perverse in reel life! Unfortunately, 4 our materialistic, survival-of-th-fittest believing society, I find tat words like 'culture', 'values' or even 'morals' r just as significant as the bark of a stray dog on a street! so I often lose all hope talking to our ppl. abt this....! :(

suressh

18th March 2005, 01:02 PM

:)

hello pp,

once again back in full form to bash medias for all evil happenings in society... :-)

nothing can change anyone, as long as he/she tend to change.

:)

suressh

18th March 2005, 01:04 PM

:)

pp,

please note that my above post does not deny the vulgarity in medias.

:)

pavalamani pragasam

18th March 2005, 02:46 PM

Suresh, "Hope springs eternal in human breast". I am optimist. :thumbsup: Why dont you try to become one?

suressh

18th March 2005, 03:59 PM

:)

pp,

sorry... but i dont see any optimism in pointing fingers... if i am wrong, it is my problem and no one else can make me to commit wrong, imo

:)

pavalamani pragasam

18th March 2005, 05:48 PM

This is creating awareness, Suresh! You cant just watch with folded hands when something precious( the youth) is perishing in front of your eyes! I am not an avatar! I never boast to be one. My criticism is not for time passing. I strongly feel something must be done!

pavalamani pragasam

21st March 2005, 01:19 PM

The story “maayaththirai” published in last week’s Anada Vikadan fails to be agreeable to my palate. I wonder if I have company to share the feeling. Most likely not!!! The author of the story about whom an impressive intro is given in the front half of the book as her letter to the magazine says this is her second story. After reading the story I feel it no great loss to the society in her misfortune of not being to write so long. The candid expression of quite controversial moral standards in the story , a sort of upholding wayward moral behaviour and personal sexual impressions of the characters lead me to think, “Aren’t there already too many preachers for such concepts? One more old lady joining the bandwagon -the deterioration gathering momentum!” Circulation is expected to increase by publishing such moral perversities, delinquencies and atrocities by creating a sensationalisation of complex issues. A pathetic commercialization tactics at the cost of corroding impressionable minds!

blahblah

21st March 2005, 03:59 PM

Suresh, "Hope springs eternal in human breast". I am optimist. :thumbsup: Why dont you try to become one?

I support you!I too am an optimist no matter how things run at the moment.Pessimists can not change a society for the good.The very little you can do to change this society counts too!If you speak out truth and nobody listens,don't bother,they will listen one day.And even if they don't your conscience will not trouble you for not speaking out!So go ahead! :D

pavalamani pragasam

21st March 2005, 04:16 PM

Thanx, blahblah! One hand more is a bit more strength, isn't it?

krishnan

22nd March 2005, 01:02 AM

So PP what's your plan now. Get people's support in forum and that's it? I am not asking this to belittle your effort. Just curious on your action plan and how could I help. (Something more than writing "Letters to Editor) You know what I mean:-)

pavalamani pragasam

22nd March 2005, 07:49 AM

Krishnan, I dont understand clearly what you want to say. Hope you are desirous of joining the little group of like-minded sane people around here. Thanx for following up my voice everywhere. Dont you find a consistency of purpose of the caption I have given under my signature?

a.ratchasi

22nd March 2005, 08:13 AM

Krishnan, creating awareness is as important as taking action.

Badri

22nd March 2005, 08:43 AM

Krishnan was actually right in asking. Awareness creation is all good...but with no action, that awareness soon becomes a mere memory; sometimes, not even that.

Again, perhaps his questions stems from a sense of frustration that is natural to all. We see discussions and discussions every day. People hold conferneces the world over to discuss issues. But at the end of the day, what is the result? If people gathered to state their viewpoints, hey, what is the big deal. Consider for example the issue which gave rise to this thread. Everyone who contributed to this thread stated his/her condemnation of the episode, delivered their homilies on youth and education and everything, but that is what they anyway feel. You and I out there who expressed our views on this thread have not been changed in anyway by it. We have remained the same. What change has occured by our discussion?

Have we been able to reach out to society? Has this awareness been created in society or is it merely in the subsection of society that frequents this hub and which, incidentally, subscribes to the view already? We are merely stating what we are all already aware of. Have we been able to carry this awareness forward to those who are not aware?

I for one welcome Krishnan's question. I think it gives a new focus to this thread. We all spent days discussing the "shame". We have all condemmed it. Now that we have given a free vent to our spleen, why not move towards a conscious effort to spread this awareness? Why not make these discussions into a concrete reality?

Any takers for this? Anyone willing to say these are the things we can do to make this a reality? Why not discuss action points?

a.ratchasi

22nd March 2005, 09:50 AM

have we been able to reach out to society? Has this awareness been created in society or is it merely in the subsection of society that frequents this hub and which, incidentally, subscribes to the view already? We are merely stating what we are all already aware of. Have we been able to carry this awareness forward to those who are not aware?

How do you know the discussions put forth here go unnoticed?For every well informed person there are more ppl who have no idea what is happening in the society. For them, what they dont know, dont exist. With regards to the subsection of society, please bear in mind that there are many ppl who may not contribute or participate actively but nevertheless visit the site anonymously. Dont you think at least one of the many discussions we have had here might have made others view matters differently from their initial perception? I see this as one form of action.

... why not move towards a conscious effort to spread this awareness?
Is it not what we are doing now? :)

Badri

22nd March 2005, 10:01 AM

Dont you think at least one of the many discussions we have had here might have made others view matters differently from their initial perception? I see this as one form of action.

Definitely, AR, no denying that...but this is a passive form of action, if you would. It is like sitting with our wares and waiting, hoping passers-by will notice and get interested, instead of active selling, if you get what I mean.

I was talking more in terms of an active involvment.

krishnan

22nd March 2005, 10:39 AM

"You and I out there who expressed our views on this thread have not been changed in anyway by it. We have remained the same. What change has occured by our discussion?"

PP,

I could'nt have offered better explanation than Badri's. You can be content with just creating awareness probably 20-30 years back. Now that job is taken over with extensive media / tv / journalists / internet / forums and what not. People have access to some kind of media to get to know what's going on. If politicians do something wrong their opposition always works overtime to bring that to people. If something wrong happens to women (Or) Religion (Or) animals there are Human (Women) / Religious / Animal rights commissions who do their job of conveying it to public very well, there by creating an awareness thru some form. But what after creating the awareness? Are there any groups that prevents or comes up with a system to prevent such things in future? You may argue that there are Law enforcement authorities. But they have their own limitations. You cannot have one watchman per person in the country. It's the society which includes you and me has to take an extra step than creating mere awareness, atleast till the society and system matures. Once we help the system to get mature then that will take care of us. But how many of us are willing to go that extra yard?

If you ask me what plans do I have and what extra yard I am willing to take for now, frankly I don't have any answer. But all I can say is I am willing to take any extra step that will benefit the society in long term. Down the line in say 5 years from now after securing mine and my families interests I sincerly wanted to be socially more active. Till that time for now I am content with whatever little I do to my country. And plans for future??? That's where I need help from people like you. We all shared the concerns here which is fine, but what should be our actions? I think that's the direction the discussions should go on from now. Even if we cannot do anything immediately atleast those suggestions can be used by people who are socially active but passive here in the forums as a.ratchasi mentioned. And if you already have some plans in mind count me in for any help from my side.

Badri

22nd March 2005, 10:48 AM

Your sincerity is convincing Krishnan. So if that is the way this thread goes I would be happy. Perhaps to start with, here is what we can do...

a) Actively try to involve ourselves in Human Rights groups (like the ones you listed Krishnan). Not all of them are content with just brining about an awareness. There are a lot of organizations that actually do a great service to the society.

b) Bring our children up in a mature responsible way. That way, we can atleast safeguard the future.

c) Even in our casual conversations at work or friend circles, we can try and bring in these lessons that we have learnt or information we have gained through our discussions in the hub.

d) We could refer more people to the hub. At least, the number of people aware and willing to make a difference would increase.

The key thing we have to understand is that going that extra mile has to come entirely from us. Many of us are willing to go that extra mile, provided some one takes the first step for us. But the fact is that we have to go that entire mile...

These are just some of my thoughts. Perhaps the more experienced and knowledgeable ones in the Hub who might actually be doing all this and more would be able to pitch in and provide valuable inputs.

a.ratchasi

22nd March 2005, 11:41 AM

Badri, good job in coming up with the action plans. You have more or else covered it all.
See what a platform like The hub could do? :)

...more experienced and knowledgeable ones in the Hub who might actually be doing all this and more would be able to pitch in and provide valuable inputs.

I am sure many among us are doing their part offline albeit not disclosing it in a public forum.

As Badri has paved the way, hope to see more response from other hubbers.

krishnan

22nd March 2005, 11:44 AM

Thanks for suggestions Badri. Would like to give info on one such NGO by name "Sindanai Sirpikkal". Few of my friends personally know the President of the team Mr. Senthil kumar and I have met him once too. He definitely has a vision and seem to have plan for his dreams. They do a lot of things and are well known around Coimbatore area. For more details visit http://www.sslindia.org/.

Will write more as the thread progresses.

Roshan

22nd March 2005, 11:57 AM

a) Actively try to involve ourselves in Human Rights groups

Yeah we should!!

b) Bring our children up in a mature responsible way. That way, we can atleast safeguard the future.

Very effective method indeed !!

[qutoe]c) Even in our casual conversations at work or friend circles, we can try and bring in these lessons that we have learnt or information we have gained through our discussions in the hub.[/quote]

I always do it !!

d) We could refer more people to the hub. At least, the number of people aware and willing to make a difference would increase.

Exactly !! I would like to share an incident here. The UNICEF branch here in Colombo has a program to protect children from being employed as domestics. Once when I accompanied a friend of mine to her dress makers place I saw a child domestic around 7 or 8 years there. I was terribly disturbed but kept quiet without saying a single word even to my friend. We were there for about half an hour and we noticed the poor little girl being abused by an elderly woman there ( my friend said the woman was the dress makers' mother). I was so mad and wanted to teach them a good lesson.

The following day I phoned up the UNICEF office and lodged a complain against the house owners. The Officers assured me immediate action against them. Again the following day I phoned up to check as to what action was taken. The officer said that party concerned has been brought for an inquiry and the UNICEF has brought down the child's parents as well. I felt so happy that some action was being taken.

Then again after a couple of hours I called them to see what happened finally. The child was handed over to the parents with a warning that strict action will be taken if the child is not sent to school and the dress maker party was warned not to employ child domestics in future. The officers told me, once proved guilty, the party concerned will be checked time to time by UNICEF officers.

Badri

22nd March 2005, 12:00 PM

Great going Roshan! :thumbsup:

on a lighter side, looks like you play the poleees in real life too!! :lol:

Roshan

22nd March 2005, 12:05 PM

I did the same thing against another party who were living in our neighbourhood. We should never fear to complain such crimes.

scorpio

22nd March 2005, 12:07 PM

Roshan,

Hats off to you! Good job indeed!

Child labour is one thing that has been quite disgusting to me. I always used to write that I'll bring about a law that will strictly punish those who employ children whenever I used to write essays like- If I become the CM for one day, PM for one day, etc etc even during my school days. Now, I pay part of my servant maid's son's school fees to ensure she doesn't drive him for daily labour and stop him from school.

As Badri said, I've passed on these values to my kids too so that I can hope that child employment never occurs in my family even in future!

Roshan

22nd March 2005, 12:07 PM

Great going Roshan! :thumbsup:

on a lighter side, looks like you play the poleees in real life too!! :lol:

hahaha :lol:

Roshan

22nd March 2005, 12:11 PM

Roshan,

I pay part of my servant maid's son's school fees to ensure she doesn't drive him for daily labour and stop him from school.

That's great !!! :thumbsup:

As Badri said, I've passed on these values to my kids too so that I can hope that child employment never occurs in my family even in future!

Great again !!

scorpio

22nd March 2005, 12:12 PM

I did the same thing against another party who were living in our neighbourhood. We should never fear to complain such crimes.

These lines have reminded me of my dear dear Mandangi.. WHERE THE HELL IS HE??

Roshan

22nd March 2005, 12:16 PM

scorpio,

oh ! scorpio, you are spoiling the spirit !! :cry: Lets be serious please !!

scorpio

22nd March 2005, 12:21 PM

Okay, Okay, Sorry poleeeees!

Just couldn't resist my temptation, that's all!

Badri

22nd March 2005, 12:31 PM

Polees ammava vechukittu, ippadi pannalama Scorpio..tch tch tch!

Sorry Roshan, I couldn't resist the temptation either.

Ahem, ahem...No more digressions.

lordstanher

22nd March 2005, 03:57 PM

Child labour is one thing that has been quite disgusting to me. I always used to write that I'll bring about a law that will strictly punish those who employ children whenever I used to write essays like- If I become the CM for one day, PM for one day, etc etc even during my school days. Now, I pay part of my servant maid's son's school fees to ensure she doesn't drive him for daily labour and stop him from school.

A very good gesture on ur part! :clap:
Reminds me of my mum who used to do similar thing 4 one of our previous maid's daughter, years ago.....she wud add a little amt. to the maid's salary every month 4 her daughter's school fees and was strictly against our maid to letting her (daughter) work in our house.
Aside, child labour is no doubt mostly unsafe as well as unjust w/ respect to children. But many poor families in India claim to send their children to work in such areas cos they hav very little or no other source of income.....esp. if the father is a drunk/vagabond etc....sum foreign cos. tat traded w/ Indian exporting firms once declared tat they don't want to buy ne products from cos. tat employed child labour in their factories.
Many yrs ago I rem. seeing a pic. in our hyd. paper of one boy who was working in sum factory involving dangerous machinery.....the pic. showed tat his hand was cut by a machine and the wound had become septic, and the doctor had said tat his hand would need to be amputated! :( I really felt pity for tat kid!

NathuramGodse

23rd March 2005, 06:15 AM

Was these kids muslim? I wouldnt doubt it.. Digusting..

blahblah

23rd March 2005, 11:37 AM

Was these kids muslim? I wouldnt doubt it.. Digusting..

In bad taste!That too when many serious hubbers were discussing something worthy!

If you really want to see who are using children for work instead of sending them to School,go to places like Sivakasi and many small 'Pattar' restaurants in Karnataka.You will soon realise it has nothing to do with religion.It is utter poverty and lack of education of the parents themselves that deny them a better future. :x

Roshan

23rd March 2005, 11:43 AM

blahblah,

Look at his ID - that says everythinng. :wink: 'They' are the only people who are capable of talking bad ,foolish and hated stuff :lol2: You cannot expect good from them. They can never set an example any where. 8) :lol:

pavalamani pragasam

23rd March 2005, 06:30 PM

It is nice to see the discussions in my short absence. First and foremost my nature is to feel upset, absolutely shocked when something I strongly believe to be sane, good & must-be-saved, some precious values take a beating from the media. The blatant digressions from accepted norms & traditions when there is no necessity whatsoever to do so other than to create sensationalism make me MAD & SAD. A sort of utter helplessness overwhelms me. I desperately seek to clutch at a straw like a drowning person for some like-minded person’s understanding.
Having lived for too many years I have the misfortune to see vast not-so-good changes in lifestyle & society & educational system within my lifetime. Many people here have jeered at me for not being able to digest modernisms.
However fast the pace of life should we not take time & energy to watch how our wards are growing? An avalanche of influences come crashing down on the impressionable minds. The elders themselves are becoming more & more money-thirsty, power-thirsty. The sacrifices are no more there. The strict disciplined respectful familial relationship is gone.
What the schools don’t teach- moral science, the parents must teach like the “bad touch”, dignity of body parts etc. The wretched media is creating an impression of modes of behaviour, dress, and language which definitely are not yet normal. This crime of projecting so many practices as being “normal”, “the in-thing” is what I consider criminal, unforgivable.
By saying we should create awareness I don’t mean just idly airing grievances wherever possible. Not everybody could practically join groups who throw rotten eggs on vulgar cinemas or join rallies to protest sexual atrocities. But a powerful call to awake & be alert is absolutely necessary.
We are in general sinking into a lethargic mood, an insensitive mindset of being unable to be SHOCKED by so many REVOLUTIONS(so-called) & this state of affairs must change by the concerted efforts of sincerely concerned people.
As has been already pointed out with beautiful instances, “Charity begins at home”. Everyone can do their own mite in their own area of influence. Little drops make mighty ocean. We can set good example. By our deeds we can inspire others.
Clarity of thought and boldness of action are the need of the hour. Let us like good followers of Vivekananda wake to quick, constructive activities and retain our glory of possessing great cultural values.
Please avoid criticizing by pointing out exceptions that are taking place. See the grand general picture of day-to-day life of people & just see the serpent under the grass- false standards creeping in seditiously.

lordstanher

25th March 2005, 01:52 PM

Mrs. PP,
u hav indeed expressed the very sentiments tat I hav, time & again, wanted to or tried to myself! In fact, reading ur comments, I felt tat I was reading my own thots posted here! And it is true tat if u express ur concern abt such issues w/ most ppl. in our society, u r sure to get a non-supportive response! :(
Nevertheless, I'm glad tat being sumone from the older generation, u r so updated on wats happening everyday in our society and r raising ur voice against it!
I, despite belonging to this gen. more or less, am deeply anguished by the present state of wat I always believed to be a unique, rich culture founded on strong moral values!
And yes, hats off to u for adivising not to point out exceptions in our society! As u say, we must all see the general pic. of day-to-day life of people, especially the present gen.! This makes me point out tat many of our elders (or even other ppl. for tat matter) make this mistake of normally refusing to believe/accept the fact abt this cultural deterioration tats spreading in our society slowly but steadily! They believe tat just bcos they themselves r still maintaining their values etc. and know ppl. who maintain them, they r under the delusion tat even the general society itself is still like this! They believe for eg. tat children brought up in traditional families will automatically maintain the same values etc.! :x
It is this 'frog-in-the-well' attitude tat has resulted in most ppl. being unconcerned abt the ever-increasing rot & ruin tat is creeping into our culture today!
I also agree w/ ur point tat most parents themselves r no longer ready to sacrifice nething for their children/families today! Parents- esp. mothers- today hav a pivotal role in the correct upbringing of their children and seeing to it tat they don't go astray. Unfortunately, in today's norm of 'survival of the fittest', academic as well as materialistic struggles r reigning over ppl's minds, resulting in devaluation of morals/values!

pavalamani pragasam

25th March 2005, 05:57 PM

Thanx, lordstanher :) It is so heartening to know there are still some people thinking on the same wavelength :D

pavalamani pragasam

7th April 2005, 01:51 PM

These are 2 letters published in the “Letters to the Editor” section of today’s “The Hindu”:
Television woes
Sir, -I am appalled at the quality of Indian television soap operas in which women are portrayed in a poor light; they are shown as objects of ridicule and abuse –both physical and mental. I fail to understand why women allow themselves to be portrayed in this fashion.
Rekha Lakshmanan,
St.Louis,Missouri.

Sir, -Things have, no doubt, changed and changed for the worse. As youngsters, we were told by our elders to switch off the television whenever there was a programme or movie that was thought to be unfit for viewing. Now whenever such a programme is relayed the youngsters tell us to please go away.
Sathish Saxena,
Visakhapatnam,A.P.

lordstanher

7th April 2005, 08:49 PM

***Digression
Hello,
Its been quite sum time since I visited the forumhub......I've actually been going thru an emotionally difficult time lately, as my father had passed away last Saturday (2nd apr.).....I was originally supposed to have left Singapore finally this tuesday (5th) and thereafter arrived back in India, but when I was given this tragic news by my mother on Saturday, I urgently pre-poned my ticket and rushed home on the 2nd itself and was done w/ the funeral rites (which felt rather traumatic for me) the next day (3rd).
As you can imagine, I've been in a state of utmost grief as well as shock, as this happened rather suddenly and I feel worst abt the fact tat I was unable to meet/be with my father just b4 he died! The last time I saw him was when I was home on vacations last Dec...
Of course, he had been suffering from kidney failure & been on dialysis for the last 5 years and we knew he wasn't going to live much longer...but still, it all ended quite suddenly!
I'm trying my best to get over this altho it will take time to heal.....I most likely won't be visiting the hub again for a quite a while until I'm able to pull myself back together completely.
And lastly, apologies 4 the digression, but I didn't know where exactly to post this message.

pavalamani pragasam

7th April 2005, 09:15 PM

Please accept my heartfelt condolences, lordstanher! I understand how you must be feeling now. Please try to console your family. Time alone can help you get over your sorrow. Take care.

scorpio

8th April 2005, 02:55 PM

lordstanher,

Deepest condolences. Almost everyone of us would have faced such a loss sometime in life. I've been thru' it, of course, I was a teenager when my father died and didn't really understand the impact then. May his soul rest in peace!

PP Ma'm, sorry for the digression!

jaiganes

8th April 2005, 03:22 PM

Lordstanher!
I join scorpio akka and PP madam in offering my condolences to your father's demise! May his soul find everlasting peace and continue to guide you and your family through this difficult phase.

Roshan

8th April 2005, 03:52 PM

Lordstanher,

My deepest symathies to you and your family ! May the Almighty give you and your family the necessary courage and strength in this most difficult situation. Try to be around with people whom you feel more comfortable with. Please do take 'extra' care of your mother.

whatever

17th April 2005, 10:40 AM

hello,

i posted earlier as johnny etc. people are attacking me . all i ever did was support india in this forum. what really hurts is they are atackin gme because iam half pallan . but all i did was support india and tamil nad iin this froum. people in this froum seem to know .what did i do wrong?..iam of pallan caste but i never instigated any casteism as i only suppoirt india an d tamil nadu.. u ppl are my country and my state..how could u allow this to happen to me?..for ur information iam not pure pallan origin, my relatives are brown eyed. this is what really hurts as i did not atttack high castes or dravids. this is what really hurts knowing .i dont know why my own country ppl and os the same origin want to see me an dmy family ruined. whoeer u r iam sorry. please stop attackin gmy family and me.

whatever

17th April 2005, 10:53 AM

God bless u guys. bye.

pavalamani pragasam

15th May 2005, 05:16 PM

[tscii:6e5fa61b7b]Here is the editorial in today’s(May 15, 2005) “The New Sunday Express”:

Battling rape

“Everyday we read stories on some crime or the other committed against women. Rape is of course the ultimate crime. One cannot make any excuses for rape or the rapist. Which is why one is outraged when a political party actually says that women should avoid dressing provocatively. Otherwise they will invite rape.

“India, which has now taken moral policing very seriously, is possibly the most double-faced country when it comes to ill-treating women. The country’s capital, New Delhi, is a place where no woman can feel safe. Even Mumbai-considered the safest city in the country-had its reputation tarnished when a policeman raped a young woman inside the police post recently. Eve-teasing too is rampant in large and small cities. Our men still tend to behave as though they have never seen a woman before when they confront them in public places.

“The statistics are horrendous. According to women’s groups, two women are raped every hour in India. In spite of some recent high-profile cases, most rapists go scot-free. Again, who are the victims? They are mostly maidservants, migrant labourers, and those who are under-privileged and cannot protest. So what has wearing provocative clothing got to do with rape? Look at most working women standing in the bus stops or taking trains in the metros. They don’t wear scanty clothes. Their official dress code insists on formal wear. Even women working in the so-called glamorous industries are in trousers or ‘salwar kameezes’, fully covered. Most educational institutions also do not allow students to dress as they please.

“Rape is not about being provoked by a woman. Rape is in fact the most violent attack on a woman. To arrest this menace, gender sensitizing should begin at an early age, even in school, in this still largely patriarchal country. Political leaders should command their cadres to respect women, instead of making statements condoning a vile crime.”

Now let us look at this matter without giving importance to the “moral policing” act of any political party. Women in our country have been brought up on modest dress code. There are reasons other than cultural for it. It is a scientifically believable fact that different climes make people react differently to sensual enticements. A hotter country like India with the air strong with exotic fragrances men’s senses are easily excited, aroused to desire. So our forefathers wanted to prevent moral chaos consequent to unbridled passion by advocating women to dress with modesty. In order to help men handle the riot of hormones better women were recommended to show responsibility by not dressing provocatively.

In this age of global communication and easy access to various cultures and fashions of the world men of our country especially the youth need to be educated and guided about their reactions to and respect for the opposite sex. A powerful tool we have to serve this purpose- the MEDIA. But alas, the very same MEDIA is the root cause for all that is horrid happening to women.

The editorial clearly says with truth: “Look at most working women standing in the bus stops or taking trains in the metros. They don’t wear scanty clothes. Their official dress code insists on formal wear. Even women working in the so-called glamorous industries are in trousers or ‘salwar kameezes’, fully covered. Most educational institutions also do not allow students to dress as they please.” Then how do the sexual maniacs get perverted, what makes them unleash their wickedness on hapless girls and women in their vicinity? If no woman or girl in real life, in the day-to-day encounters dresses provocatively, who does?

The answer is clear as writing on the wall. The model girls in advertisements, the ramp shows/beauty pageants, in cinema, in the small screen offer an unstinting feast of flesh and skin. The percentage of exposed skin differs marginally from each other. It is purely commercial. All for making money- the business houses and the exposing girls.

Coming to the point, today’s adolescent boys and pervert, sensuous male adults are greatly aroused by what they see in the printed media and visual media. The titillation for many must find consummation. Who are the easy victims, who fall prey inescapably? “They are mostly maidservants, migrant labourers, and those who are under-privileged and cannot protest.”

“pazi Or idam paavam Or idam”. Somebody commits a wrong, somebody else pays the price. Violence against women can hope to get mitigated only when the MEDIA stops pandering to the male hormones voluptuous feasts as it is doing now with gay abandon.

The MEDIA is a villain, a serpent under the grass. It corrupts the minds of the present generation which is passing through inevitable lifestyle changes. Changes should not make us stray from guidelines judiciously, beneficially drawn out for us by our ancestors.
[/tscii:6e5fa61b7b]

Nichiro

15th May 2005, 08:10 PM

Hello PP Madam,

I write these things in my novel and I receive flak from people. You have given me support which still keeps me optimistic to complete the novel.

Nichiro

Nichiro

15th May 2005, 08:41 PM

[tscii:425da2ccdf]The MEDIA is a villain, a serpent under the grass. It corrupts the minds of the present generation which is passing through inevitable lifestyle changes. Changes should not make us stray from guidelines judiciously, beneficially drawn out for us by our ancestors.
[/tscii:425da2ccdf]

I dont know but PP Madam, I was thinking the same thing couple of days back.
TV Channels which cry crocodile tears over incidents of rape devote hours on the incidence.
Same channel transmits programmes which depict likes of Pooja Bedi and other girls interviewing people (Where the cleavage of the dress tries to reach the bottom and the hem of her dress falls precariously short of reaching her underwear.
Same channel has different programmes which does not even think anything about modesty in any way.
If anybody is to blame, it is media as pointed out by PP madam.

Nichiro

lordstanher

16th May 2005, 10:40 AM

[tscii:0862cc6437]
India, which has now taken moral policing very seriously, is possibly the most double-faced country when it comes to ill-treating women. Our men still tend to behave as though they have never seen a woman before when they confront them in public places.

A very correct point indeed! India's possibly the only country in the world tat worships women as Goddesses in religion yet ironically behaves exactly the opposite w/ them in reality! :evil:
In fact, when I was in Sing. one day, a friend of mine told me abt this shocking article he came across on the internet tat said tat majority of men in India, when looking at/talking to women, tend to look at their bosom first, and never or later their faces...regardless of their age or how decently they r dressed!.....this is too pathetic! :evil: :evil:
And I'm surprised to know tat Mumbai is considered the safest city in India! wat w/ their red-light areas & strong hold of underworld hooligans/int'l crooks! :?

what has wearing provocative clothing got to do with rape? Look at most working women standing in the bus stops or taking trains in the metros. They don’t wear scanty clothes.......Most educational institutions also do not allow students to dress as they please.

Despite the eternal statement tat girls/women who dress provocatively r the ones who invite harassment/rape, I feel tat its a myth & in most cases is in fact the other way round!
I feel tat most girls/women who r victims of such crimes r actually by & large modest & r very conscious of decency in their attire as well as behaviour......in most cases its they who end up being subjected to such injustice, rather than the so-called provocatively dressed or 'loose' girls/women...... :(
If its true tat dressing provocatively is the main cause for such violence then how come all the elite/high society women (inc. celebrities/film actresses/models) don't refrain from wearing truly revealing or skimpy dresses even in public appearances??
How come film stars (eg. Mallika Sherawat) r able to pass off in our society w/ the excuse "if a woman's body is beautiful, y object to her showing it?" and the moral police refrains from 'correcting' such women, if they r concerned abt sartorial decency?! :evil: :twisted:

It is a scientifically believable fact that different climes make people react differently to sensual enticements. A hotter country like India with the air strong with exotic fragrances men’s senses are easily excited, aroused to desire. So our forefathers wanted to prevent moral chaos consequent to unbridled passion by advocating women to dress with modesty. In order to help men handle the riot of hormones better women were recommended to show responsibility by not dressing provocatively.

Actually I rem. reading in a book long ago tat ne man's sensual desires (regardless of the climes) r aroused mainly by visual bodily display of the opposite sex....tats the way their hormones work, its never the other way round, which is y women normally don't tend to get sensually distracted/aroused by men openly displaying their bodies. Rather they wud look the other way!
Hence I guess our forefathers, who had the foresight to perceive this, and also going by our cultural restraints, originally insisted on women dressing modestly and seldom men.....
In most foreign countries, even tho women hav seldom stuck to such rules from the beginning, they don't face the kind of risk tat women in India do probably bcos men there r already used to such a thing and also bcos of their culture tat gives individuals there an unrestrained social life (ie, most ppl. there hav GFs/BFs/blind dates/casual sex etc.) so IMO, their men's sensual desires apparently don't tend to tide periodically on just looking at women.

The MEDIA is a villain, a serpent under the grass. It corrupts the minds of the present generation which is passing through inevitable lifestyle changes.

Never was a true'r word spoken! :D :thumbsup:
U hav, yet again given a crystal-clear pic. of the harmful effects of the country's current media!
Apart from our movies w/ their blatant display of vulgarity and soft-porn (not to mention telecasting songs from such films in late shows on TV like 'Midnight Masala'....) since more than a decade, another well-disguised culprit is Advertising.
In today's scenario, u find even in advertising a motorbike/car or electronic appliance, they hav to depict a scantily clad woman (who's often wet after a swim) full of lust, even if she's nothing to do w/ the product, to make their brand sell! :evil:
This is a pathetic disease tat has long affected the West (who apparently don't curb this despite all their cries for women's rights/justice!) and is now snaking its way into Indian media! :twisted:
Ironically, women who participate in such ads (& often eventually end up as page 3 models) don't feel tat this is an outrage of their modesty/dignity in ne way or tat they r just being depicted as objects for a brand's commercial gain.....
While on the other hand, they r ready to talk in interviews abt how women r being 'restricted' their rights by our 'obsolete' culture and 'outdated' values etc. etc...... :evil: :twisted:

Changes should not make us stray from guidelines judiciously, beneficially drawn out for us by our ancestors.

Wat an unarguably right & wise point indeed! But then, it is upto the few of us to really make a difference (if at all feasible) in the materialistically corrupted present-day society! So whether such a major reform in such a large society can really happen bcos of a few of us is yet to be seen...... :(
I guess tat all tat it takes is sum sense of individual responsibility and sheer determination (undeterred by the dissuading remarks of others in this regard)! [/tscii:0862cc6437]

pavalamani pragasam

16th May 2005, 01:01 PM

Thanx, lordstanher :D

Akash

16th May 2005, 04:14 PM

I dunno where else to drop this!! any way its just a precausion measures for ladies...

1. Tip from police: The elbow is the strongest point on your body. If you are close enough to use it, do!

2. If a robber asks for your wallet and/or purse, DO NOT HAND IT TO HIM.Toss it away from you.... chances are that he is more interested in your wallet and/or purse than you and he will go for the wallet or purse.
RUN LIKE MAD IN THE OTHER DIRECTION!

3. If you are ever thrown into the trunk of a car: Kick out the back tail lights and stick your arm out the hole and start waving like crazy. The driver won't see you but everybody else will. This has saved lives.

4. Women have a tendency to get into their car after shopping, eating, working, etc., and just sit (doing their cheque book or making a list, etc.) DON'T DO THIS! The predator will be watching you, and this is the
perfect opportunity for him to get in on the passenger side, put a gun to your head, and tell you where to go. AS SOON AS YOU GET INTO YOUR CAR, LOCK THE DOORS AND LEAVE.

5. A Few Notes About Getting Into Your Car In a Parking Lot, or Parking Garage:

A.) Be aware: look around you; look into your car, at the passenger side floor, and in the back seat (and check out under the car as you approach).

B.) If you're parked next to a big van, enter your car from the passenger door. Most serial killers attack their victims by pulling them into their vans while the women are attempting to get into their cars.

C.) Look at the car parked on the driver's side of your vehicle, and the passenger side. If a male is sitting alone in the seat nearest your car, you may want to walk back into the mall, or work, and get a guard/policeman to walk you back out. IT IS ALWAYS BETTER TO BE SAFE THAN SORRY (and better paranoid than dead.)

6. ALWAYS take the elevator instead of the stairs. (Stairwells are horrible places to be alone and the perfect crime spot).

7. If the predator has a gun and you are not under his control, ALWAYS RUN! The predator will only hit you (a running target) 4 in 100 times; And even then, it most likely WILL NOT be a vital organ, RUN!

8. As women, we are always trying to be sympathetic: STOP IT! It may get you raped, or killed. Ted Bundy, the serial killer, was a good-looking, well educated man, who ALWAYS played on the sympathies of
unsuspecting women. He walked with a cane, or a limp, and often asked "for help" into his vehicle or with his vehicle, which is when he abducted his next victim.

Someone just told me that her friend heard a crying baby on her porch the night before last and she called the police because it was late and she thought it was weird. The police told her Whatever you do, DO NOT open
the door."

The lady then said that it sounded like the baby had crawled near a window, and she was worried that it would crawl to the street and get run over.

The policeman said, "We already have a unit on the way, whatever you do, DO NOT open the door." He told her that they think a serial killer has a baby's cry recorded and uses it to coax women out of their homes
thinking that someone dropped off a baby. He said they have not verified it, but have had several calls by women saying that they heard baby cries outside their doors when they're home alone at night.

lordstanher

17th May 2005, 07:55 AM

3. If you are ever thrown into the trunk of a car: Kick out the back tail lights and stick your arm out the hole and start waving like crazy. The driver won't see you but everybody else will. This has saved lives.

A good suggestion.....but it also depends on the bodily design of the car.....sum cars don't hav openings behind the tail lights wide enuff to put ur hand thru, which proves to be a disadvantage.......

6. ALWAYS take the elevator instead of the stairs. (Stairwells are horrible places to be alone and the perfect crime spot).

Um...by stairwells, u mean the landing area in the middle of staircases?
Neways, I might add another little tip of my own here- avoid taking the elevator if there's a man or group of men (only) in it & if u r the only woman around......try taking it w/ a varied group of ppl. (esp. w/ other women & maybe evn children).....cos there r chances of a lone man/group of men doing harm if the elevator happens to break down midway!

PS>> I think these tips wud be equally suitable to place in the 'Violence Against women' thread?

lordstanher

30th May 2005, 08:54 AM

PP ma'm,
I wished to highlight u on a piece of rather distressing news I came to know from a friend. This is also an exceptional case where the media, which is proving to be a destructive tool, can also be a useful source of the happenings around us- esp. the present gen.!
My friend the other day, was telling me about a documentary he'd recently seen on SONY TV (channel) about call centres in India, and also read about it in India Today.
There was a case where a girl working in a call centre had been gang-raped by 4 of her male colleagues in the centre itself! :x I've no idea where in India this happened.
And as many of us might know, it also turns out tat the male- as well as female- employees there behave very unprofessionally, claiming tat they r "bored with taking calls/talking all day or night", esp. during the night shift, so they "want to hav fun".......thus many of them browse thru porn sites while working (as they hav access to internet) and even hav sex in the lounges of their centres, during their shifts! Worse still, the girls r now known to take vulgar pics. of themselves in the workplace itself and send them to porn sites very often (they get paid for it). They claim tat all they want is money and they don't care abt "sticking to obsolete culture/values" or wat the society thinks of them!
However, in this scenario, I wonder if the culprit poisoning their minds is sumthing besides the media itself? Cud it be the only reason for this revolt of the present gen. against our normal social values/way of life........?

pavalamani pragasam

26th July 2005, 09:23 AM

[tscii:83da5405f8]From today’s “Hindustan Times”:

Delhi teens blame media for bad influence

The national capital’s adolescent population is totally dissatisfied with media influences, revealed a survey conducted by Vimhans. As many as 92 per cent of the 1,240 school children said that they were “confused and dissatisfied” with media influences, especially in the area of promoting obscenity, violence, extramarital affairs and bad role models.

Aged between 14-17 years of age, children were selected at random from both government and private schools and were asked to respond to a range of issues related to mental health, peer group behaviour, family relations etc.

An analysis of the response of these 92 per cent children revealed that almost one third of these children felt that media promoted obscenity, followed by a quarter that said it also promoted violence. “How often does a child get to see a revolver in real life? Compare this to the number of times revolvers are shown in tele-serials. Children notice this,” said Dr.Jitendra Nagpal of Childhood and Adolescent health at Vimhans.

As many as 17 per cent of these children also felt that media propagates negative responses by showing frequent drug abuse, alcohol abuse as well as glamourised those who used these, thereby sending conflicting signals to a very impressionable age group of viewers.
[/tscii:83da5405f8]

lordstanher

26th July 2005, 10:22 AM

PP ma'm,
As always u hav wisely brought to light such informative & thot-provoking articles vis-a-vis today's youth! :wink:
Reading it, I actually see a little ray of hope, going by the fact tat the youth in qsn. hav atleast realised early-on, the types of -ve influence today's media is capable of having on their age groups......
I don't intend to sound too optimistic but I daresay this realisation is as important as working towards solving the problem & cud even be a stepping stone to solving the problem.....?
As the saying goes "Any attempt of self-improvement is in vain without self-acceptance".......so its good tat they r learning to accept wat's harmful & can be avoided but still, it is not poss' to totally shut out these -ve influences.......atleast not in the short run, as on the downside of being a democracy, the Govt. simply cannot put a blanket ban over or even curb such issues even if they r proved to be harmful (unlike in the case of China where certain websites/TV channels tat r not approved by the Govt. cannot be accessed thruout the country)......& its not just in media, for eg. there was the case of the unsuccessful "Dry Law" imposed by the then AP CM Chandrababu Naidu, tat was aimed at banning the sale of liqour thruout AP! Altho it was seen as an effective move, it was forced to be lifted within a short time!

pavalamani pragasam

26th July 2005, 11:50 AM

You may add the recent ban on smoking scenes on screen, closure of dance bars etc. All these well_meant measures do face numerous hurdles & stiff opposition from sections of perverse public. As for the welfare of adolescents the educational institutions can work hard to create a healthy atmosphere inside the campus, showing clearly adherence to moral rules are accepted with favour & negligence with censure. It will be beneficial if parents can do their mite of pointing out erring characters on the screen. How idealan wish it will be for them to boycott the trashy entertainment offered on the small/big screen!

saradhaa_sn

27th July 2005, 01:01 PM

Hello Movie Makers...!!!!!!

These are all because of you only. Can you watch any of your recent movies with your parents/sisters/daughters....?????.

You can...!!!!!!!, but we cannot....

I am surprising by watching many of the recent movies, whether are they censored or un-censored. That much vulgarity and misleading matters of youths.

Hello 'Maadhar Sangams' and 'Magalir Panchayaths'. Dont cry much against gents, that they are only spoiling by movies. Our ACTRESSES who belongs to GIRLS/LADIES category are ready to act even "................" if the film producer give more and more money, without thinking that another girl is going to be affected because of their vulgur actions.

Did you start even a single tone against that ACTRESSES...?????.
No, you will never, bacause they are ladies....

As a lady, I am ashamed of your actions.

pavalamani pragasam

27th July 2005, 04:32 PM

Satanic lure of money & the luxuries that money can buy :cry:

ssanjinika

27th July 2005, 05:38 PM

lewdness in the name of art and entertainment :(

lordstanher

27th July 2005, 07:59 PM

Hello Movie Makers...!!!!!!
Can you watch any of your recent movies with your parents/sisters/daughters....?????.
You can...!!!!!!!, but we cannot....

Actually I don't rekon even they can! I bet they won't want their wives/daughters to sit & watch these movies they make themselves! :evil:

Our ACTRESSES who belongs to GIRLS/LADIES category are ready to act even "................" if the film producer give more and more money, without thinking that another girl is going to be affected because of their vulgur actions.

Well, they almost always hav a default answer to this: "My role/s demand/s it!".....!
Altho therez of course a much newer reply coined by a well-known B'wood actress "My body is beautiful, so y object to my showing it"....... :evil:
Aside, its common knowledge tat there hav also been even "blue" films being stealthily made locally for more than a decade.......earlier they used to be shown in sum theatres in the bigger cities.....now they r being stealthily telecast even on certian TV channels at late hrs (atleast, afa I'm aware, in AP)........not sure if these r all legal in the 1st place (w/ refernce to the "Indecent representation of women" Act).......but this also goes on to show wat kind of ppl. r running cable TV channels nowadays!
Nevertheless even most 'normal' films today hav a certain amount of vulgarity tat u'd expect only in "blue" films in their songs/dances as well as 'comedy' scenes! And they manage to pass off w/ 'U' (unrestricted?) certificates! :evil:

lordstanher

31st July 2005, 06:09 PM

On a related note, here's a link to an article I just spotted tat described sum unpleasant experiences tat sum noted B'wood actresses hav had a brush w/ in real life bcos of thier 'hot' image in reel life! :wink:

http://autofeed.msn.co.in/pandorav3/output/Cinema/cdcc3375-ff28-44c9-a60b-0a200d34cd22.aspx

:lol2:

PS- article may be viewable only for a short time........

suressh

31st July 2005, 06:37 PM

:)

// Well, they almost always hav a default answer to this: "My role/s demand/s it!".....!
Altho therez of course a much newer reply coined by a well-known B'wood actress "My body is beautiful, so y object to my showing it"....... //

- one more to add to this :

"acting sexy is not correct... but glamorous is okei..." :lol:

:)

pavalamani pragasam

11th September 2005, 08:15 AM

[tscii:f7cf595075]A quote from an article in today’s “Hindustan Times”:

“Who is sleeping with whom is not a moral issue.”

:?: :!: :shock: :roll: :evil: :( :cry: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: [/tscii:f7cf595075]

lordstanher

11th September 2005, 09:18 AM

[tscii:fa6b2e9a0b]A quote from an article in today’s “Hindustan Times”:

“Who is sleeping with whom is not a moral issue.”

:?: :!: :shock: :roll: :evil: :( :cry: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: [/tscii:fa6b2e9a0b]

Um.......PP ma'm, is it possible for u to provide a link to said article??
I searched in today's (10th Sept.) HT website but cudn't find it.....?
However, going thru the archived online pages under 'HTspecials', (dated 25 Aug 2005) I came across a far more shocking article tat wud aptly fit under this thread's title "A shame"!! :evil:

I can't say more abt it at the moment but if u can read it by today, here it is:

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/7724_1319408,001601000007.htm

Title of the sub-article in an article on nudity:

"Should nudity be legalised in India?"

'cudn't believe wat our society's coming to.......! :!: :shock: :evil:

pavalamani pragasam

11th September 2005, 11:52 AM

lordstanher

11th September 2005, 02:04 PM

The quote is from a "face to face" feature by Shevlin Sebastian with Rajat Kapoor, the award-winning director of 'Raghu Romeo'. The title of the article is 'Sex is beyond morality'. It is just sickening. You'll agree, lordstanher, that the media, mainly the silver screen is bent on pandering to all that is coarse & uncivilised in human nature- filling their coffers in the process. :twisted:

I do agree PP ma'm......however, might I add tat its not the media alone......its sumthing to do w/ the psychology of today's society......sum say tat as trends & lifestyles change so do values......but I disagree (& sure u do as well)!
Trends & lifestyles hav always been changing even from my granparents to my parents but their basic morals/values remained the same.......its just tat today's society is growing more & more materialistic, seeking monetary comforts & sensual pleasures as their ultimate 'must fulfill' goals........they find no contentment in maintaining family bonds or even basic morals........this disease had affected the Western world decades ago & now its spreading into India as well! They'll soon realise (I hope!) wat a shallow, superficial existence they r leading themselves into! :evil:

pavalamani pragasam

18th September 2005, 10:14 AM

[tscii:5d5fac87fd]A typical Western style mockery of MARRIAGE seen in a joke published in a popular newspaper:

One day a girl brings home her boyfriend and tells her father she wants to marry him. After talking to him for a while, he tells his daughter she can’t do it because he’s her half brother. The same problem happens again four more times! The girl starts to get pissed off. She goes to her mom and says, “ Mom…What have you been doing all your life? Dad’s been going around laying every maiden in the town and now I can’t marry any of the five guys I like because they have turned out to be my half brothers!” Her mom replies, “ Don’t worry darling, you can marry any one of them you want, he isn’t really your dad.”
[/tscii:5d5fac87fd]

pavalamani pragasam

18th September 2005, 11:59 AM

[tscii:131591b6ce]GEMS of bold, brave pronouncements of 2 film personalities in today’s “Times of India” under the heading, “Is Indian society ready for live-in relationships?”

Mahesh Bhatt, filmmaker:

This is the age of surrogate mothers, test-tube babies and human cloning. One of the greatest inventions of the human mind was the birth-control pill. It freed woman from the shackles of unwanted babies. Subsequently, the stigma of abortion disappeared when it was legalized and divorce is not such a dirty word anymore.

These changes post-Independence have in a way taken the wind out of the sails of marriage. There are other options, and one of them is living together.

Today, young Indians find it economically viable to live together rather than jump into holy matrimony. This obviously infuriates the guardians of tradition, whose authority and livelihood is in jeopardy. Gone are those days when they could manipulate people by calling them immoral and sinful. The reason is simple-young Indians are economically independent, therefore, they are not dependent on the tacit approval of their elders.

In the 80’s, when I projected this in the semi-autobiographical movie ‘Arth’, I was considered deviant. Today, when I ask my daughter, who is one month away from her 18th birthday, if she would consider a live-in relationship, without any hesitation, she says she would. “It’s better to get to know a person by living with him before you decide to hang around with him for the rest of your life, isn’t it?” she says with simplicity.

Here is what Smriti Irani, actress, says:

In a nation where marriages are still arranged and daughters are conditioned from childhood to accept their parents’ choice, can live-in relationships ever become the norm? True, in the metros, the trend is catching up. More and more couples are living together before marriage- to gauge the level of compatibility-but what about smaller cities? After all, metros don’t represent the whole country.

Are parents in Ranchi or Kanpur, willing to accept live-in relationships? Will they allow their daughter to walk into such an arrangement? In spite of all the progress we have made, India still remains a conservative society. Sex is rarely discussed in public and the phenomenon of unmarried couples living together is largely restricted to big-city professionals.

Indeed, the Domestic Violence Bill passed recently by Parliament does include violence against women even in live-in relationships. While the system may be readying for change, the fact remains that mindsets are yet to change.

Here, it’s the woman who starts out with a disadvantage. If a relationship fails, she is the one who is judged. And no one intervenes if there is violence between partners in a live-in arrangement. Here too, the onus lies on the woman and people pass judgement on her character. Unless we change the way we bring up our daughters, our society will not change.

How many middle-class parents can really say their daughter has the liberty to choose if she wants to get married or just live with a man? Ours is a very patriarchal society. Here, couples are killed for daring to fall in love. There are places where caste panchayats decide the fate of young couples who dare to deviate from the norm. Look at what happened in Muzaffarnagar recently. A girl was hung from the tree by her own family for having an affair with a boy they didn’t approve of.

If a society is so harsh about marriage without parental consent and intercaste love affairs, how can it ever accept live-in relationships?

I am not passing a judgement on the idea. After all, a relationship is restricted to two people. How they want to define it is entirely upto them. And no one has the right to judge them on the basis of whether they are married or living together. However, it’s only when society stops judging live-in couples that we can really say we are ready for such arrangements. And for society to change, we need to change our mindset first.

[/tscii:131591b6ce]

nilavupriyan

18th September 2005, 12:24 PM

[tscii:5711e2acdd]
A Shame

The news in the front page of today’s “The Hindu”: ‘Harassed’ girl commits immolation, 3 boys held.
A 13-year- old girl immolated herself due to sexual harassment by 3 boys near her house at Pallavaram, Chennai… The Pallavaram police have arrested the boys, all of them aged between 10 and 14, on the charge of sexual harassment and lodged them in the juvenile Home…One of the arrested boys is employed in a scrap iron shop, while the other two are studying in standards VI and VII. The dead girl was a standard VIII student, always among the top three students and secured the first rank recently.

Where are we going? What is happening to our society? Who is responsible for this degeneration of our youth? Is it not time some steps were taken to curb the unlicensed vulgarity in the silver screen? Our impressionable youth are perhaps not ready yet to digest global liberty standards.

Please share your views.

the roots of this problem are three main reasons

1)television.....,which is telecasting some non-sense....especially certain english channels...

2)internet....the major cause for these type of behaviours by adolescent age groups....they must bring on a rule that noone under 18 must be allowed to cafe.......and the parents must be keen on their children's work on internet(if the connection is at home)

3)cell phone....the combination of net(chat) and cell phone is the most dangerous thing...the guys are easily tempted to do mistakes...
further...,the girls must also change......so closer relationship with boys in the name of friendship sometimes gonna finish in @#$%.......there must be a considerable distance between two sexes...so that each will feel that touching each other is not ordinary....its a wierd thing..
[/tscii:5711e2acdd]

pavalamani pragasam

18th September 2005, 01:09 PM

nirosha sen

18th September 2005, 06:51 PM

Well, I'm mighty mad with President Musharaff's response to Muktar Mai's plight, when questioned by the Press in New York!! :evil:

The man actually said that some women go get themselves raped to draw international attention to themselves and creating undue publicity!!!

I just can't fathom them, for all their talk of protecting women's rights; they just don't hold up to scrutiny when put to the test, do they????? :x

Sandeep

19th September 2005, 12:19 PM

What a fuss and ado over some sensible measures taken by some sensible persons truly concerned with the present generation's health & the future of India: the recent banning by Anna University in Tamil Nadu cellphones & strictures about dress code for girls have come for some criticism & wide welcome-both! The criticism is interfering with freedom! :evil: blah blah :twisted: That is the malaise of the present times! We don't know what is freedom! :twisted: freedom to do what all things? :twisted:

1) A very vocal argument against this ban is "At 18 if they can be trusted with choosing the rulers of the country then can they not be trusted with choosing their cloths"

2) Ban is not on vulgur dressing only.

"The dress code states that students should not wear jeans, t-shirts, skirts or sleeveless and tight-fitting outfits and enjoins them to dress conservatively."

"Anna University has banned the use of cell phones" (no where inside the campus)

"any film-based cultural events"

In short ban is not on Vulgarity, but its on Modernity. You wear half saree or saree whichever way you want, the dress code wouldnt touch you. But wear a T-Shirt however well, its a SIN.

If these perverts who brought the ban believe that saree brings back conservatism (is there a word like that) thats because they have not seen the new generation wear it.

This ban is going to be counter productive, with "munthani" (pallu) fallings a daily insident.

pavalamani pragasam

19th September 2005, 12:43 PM

It is not every girl's munthani that falls! Discipline must be enforced, then cajoling come next. Decency, human decency must be maintained at all costs. Not going the decadent, degenerate, superfluous, satiated western way! We know what it is to enjoy life meaningfully with endurance & integrity!

Sandeep

19th September 2005, 01:47 PM

It is not every girl's munthani that falls!

Exactly my point. Its not what one wears but how they think that needs nurturing (not enforcement).

Discipline must be enforced, then cajoling come next. Decency, human decency must be maintained at all costs.
Again not enforced but "nurtured". Regulations have only destroyed civilizations.

Not going the decadent, degenerate, superfluous, satiated western way!

"My baby is the most beautiful in the world". Ok thats fine but why call other kids ugly.

Thalibanism needs opposition at all fronts

pavalamani pragasam

19th September 2005, 02:18 PM

Very easy to brand any reasonable disciplinary measure as 'thalibanisam' and seek excuse for indulging in indecent, voluptuous and provocative behaviour! :twisted:

Sandeep

19th September 2005, 02:54 PM

Very easy to brand any thalibanic measure as "protection of decency" and seek excuse for indulging in degenerating hippocratic behaviour! :twisted: :twisted:

Sandeep

19th September 2005, 03:02 PM

Talibanism is nothing but "enforcement" of their believes on others. Its the "enforcement" part that I have problem with.

I do agree that "Indecency" needs to controled when it becomes a "public nuicense". But what we are increasingly seeing is the "enforcement" of the whims and will of some people on others.

pavalamani pragasam

19th September 2005, 04:18 PM

we can only lead the animal to the pond, but can't make it drink. :shock: Hypocrisy, my foot! :evil: This is like pouring water on duck's back :twisted:

dev

20th September 2005, 12:23 AM

Its not what one wears but how they think that needs nurturing (not enforcement).

Discipline must be enforced, then cajoling come next. Decency, human decency must be maintained at all costs.
Again not enforced but "nurtured". Regulations have only destroyed civilizations.

Sandeep, :clap: :thumbsup:

nirosha sen

20th September 2005, 10:54 AM

My Sen's worth, Pava : You're absolutely right abt decent dressing, Pa! But I beg to differ that only the saree and salwar kameez is considered decent enough. Just because girls have chosen to wear simple t-shirts and jeans, it is no cause for a ban. It sounds ludicrous in this day and age.

In my younger days in primary schools, long before Muslim teachers resorted to covering up from top to toe as they do now, I had teachers of different races, who wore their own choices. Unfortunately, this freedom of choice was not always for the best. While most teachers had usually turned out in their conservative best, there were those who chose to turn up in their micro-minis!!

There were low-cut decolletege tops and skirts that rod up their ample rumps, leaving us girls a good look into the day's choice of undergarments by our teachers!! These were teachers who chose Western styled dresses and skirts of course!! But of the Indian teachers, who chose the saree????? While most were well covered up, we had a number who delighted us to peek into their cholis and navels!!

In conclusion???? - Conservative dressing can be found in both Western as well as Eastern styles. I believe the University admin. has to sit down and spell out their guidelines clearly, without turning it into a East Vs West, bash! Or in this case, insisting only the saree and churidars as the only choice!!

Badri

20th September 2005, 11:13 AM

pavalamani pragasam

20th September 2005, 12:14 PM

Sari gets its dignity from its wearer's sense of propriety. Bollywood girls wear it, People like Indira Gandhi, Sonia Gandhi also wear it. The same sari definitely gets different tones in both instances. When an educational institution which has the main duty of shaping a student's personality into a dignified, educated, accountable citizen could not have Bollywood style in mind; only the decent sort known to our mothers & grandmothers. Provocative tops & jeans with 'superb' slogans cannot but be signs of perversity & waywardness. A college campus need not be the playground for such "adventures". Don't tell me there is no way to be jouthfully happy without resorting to debauchery. :twisted: What respect gets the professor when the brats exchange pornographic matters on cellphones across the desks? What is he paid for? To teach a batch of eager students or to preach to a bunch of rogues? There must be a lot of innocent, serious-minded aspiring students being disturbed by the raucous, spoilt brats who are the blacksheep among them.All modern inventions like cellphones & internet are all abused beyond imagination bringing woe to the welfare of future generations. :cry: Challenging the powers to be to stop the utterly obscene, vulgar, tasteless stuff reeled by the silver screen? :roll: :twisted: All my support to an attempt to clean up the college campuses of utter trash, rubbish & rot. :thumbsup:

nirosha sen

20th September 2005, 03:27 PM

There were low-cut decolletege tops and skirts that rod up their ample rumps, leaving us girls a good look into the day's choice of undergarments by our teachers!! These were teachers who chose Western styled dresses and skirts of course!! But of the Indian teachers, who chose the saree????? While most were well covered up, we ad a number who delighted us to peek into their cholis and navels!!

:shock:

Niro: Why would you be delighted to peek into women teacher's cholis, navels etc etc????

:shock:

I had always thought you were a woman!! Don't tell me I had been mistaken all these days!!

:shock:

Oh, Badri!! :lol: We were primary school kids, Pa!! On the verge of adoloscence too!! What were we suppose to do, when Miss So and So, was putting on a show for our benefit???? It was the days, when a slight show of the underslip received, "Hey, your Monday is longer than Sunday" talk!!!!

Yup, am a woman, hear me roar!! (helen reddy, Pa!!) :wink:

pavalamani pragasam

20th September 2005, 06:41 PM

Precosity, it is to be noted, is remarkably a very prominent 'attribute' of today's kids :(

Badri

21st September 2005, 05:29 AM

Oh, Badri!! :lol: We were primary school kids, Pa!! On the verge of adoloscence too!! What were we suppose to do, when Miss So and So, was putting on a show for our benefit???? It was the days, when a slight show of the underslip received, "Hey, your Monday is longer than Sunday" talk!!!!

Yup, am a woman, hear me roar!! (helen reddy, Pa!!) :wink:

I know Niro!! But just couldn't resist the temptation to pass that without comment!!! :lol: :lol: :wink:

Sandeep

22nd September 2005, 07:22 AM

Sandeep

22nd September 2005, 07:25 AM

pavalamani pragasam

22nd September 2005, 07:30 AM

Yes, the 'innocents' are curious! That is the problem. When an epidemic breaks out remedial measures are taken on a war footing. Misbehaviour in college campus need not be dreaded as tsunamis or Katrinas. When a dam develops a leak judiciously all endeavours are taken to plug it not watch it take its course.

Badri

22nd September 2005, 07:43 AM

What respect gets the professor when the brats exchange pornographic matters on cellphones across the desks?
Pornography came before cell phone and will remain after it. Let us ban books then, after all the most widely used medium of pronography among college students is paper material.

To teach a batch of eager students or to preach to a bunch of rogues? There must be a lot of innocent, serious-minded aspiring students being disturbed by the raucous, spoilt brats who are the blacksheep among them.

Do you really believe the so called "innocent" students dont like all these stuff or arent curious. Come out of the movies.

I do like Sandeep's views! What is being done today is like attacking the symptoms of the disease without curing the disease itself!! Cell phones and media are not the culprits! It is the mind of the youth that is the thing to be watched carefully. To pretend that youth of yesteryears were holier than those today is foolish! Hormones being the same, things would have all been just the same then, as now.

But, as Sandeep had written elsewhere, what has gone wrong is nurturing and upbringing. Don't lets blame youth or technology. Parents are the ones that should bear the brunt of the blame. Too busy earning money, and jetsetting, the mothers and fathers of today have precious little time to spend in bringing up their children with morals and discipline. It is infintely easier for them to open up their wallets and shell out some money to the kids so that they would not make any more demans on the time and attention from the parents!!

Neither is there the moralistic upbringing from grandparents, with the increasingly nuclear families! What will the youngsters do? All their time is spent, not under the watchful eyes of concerned parents, but in the free indulgence of every whim and fancy that the hormones dictate or peer pressures force.

Such being the case, to merely impose external rules will be of little avail. Yes, personally I welcome the Anna University guidelines of dressing and cell phone usage. But that is just me! Internally, the students are not convinced that this move is in their best interests. Perhaps it is too late now...perhaps they will realize the need for this only when they have children who will grow up and engage in just the same activities!

hmm, ! I wonder how many young men and women of today condone the promiscous activities of their children tomorrow!!! How many young guys of today would be open minded enough later on and allow young men to flirt with their daughters tomorrow, as they do today?

a.ratchasi

22nd September 2005, 08:28 AM

It is easy to overlook the vast population of ordinary folks who are well behaved :roll: and decent :roll: when there is one seemingly tiny black spot. :roll:

pavalamani pragasam

22nd September 2005, 08:42 AM

Badri has painted the scene with stunning correctness & clarity. I fully agree it is the parents who have lost all sense of values. It is the parents who allow their tots to do vulgar dance numbers at school functions; I read a teeager confessing to sneaking out a pornographic CD from his mother's handbag; parenting is such a bore today-why bother with it; today's youth get no guidance either from the parents or the world outside dominated by MEDIA. No wonder commitments of marriage & parenthood are becoming a burden with temptation increasing for modern lifestyles of living-together, adopting a child, surrogate motherhood etc. MONEY is the only goal, and all the pleasures it can bring. Unrestrained indulgence in carnal pleasures is the bane of the present times. Babies are looked after in creche, the elders in old age homes, teens have a riotous time in educational campuses with people in twenties and thirties weighing questions of marraige & parenthood with utterly selfish, sensual priorities.

With such a state of affairs found around us, is it not wise to think about setting things right for the future generations, future of a country? We must start somewhere. Greed of MEDIA on the one hand & the independent, debauch young people settling down in life on the other hand are making it a tough job for anyone who wants to keep a sense of values alive.

Sandeep

22nd September 2005, 11:00 AM

Clash between generations have always been there and ultimately the winner is the goods in both sides. But as you both said now a days the older generation is no more involving themself.

Greatness is not in dealing with only the good, but in dealing with all and still retaining your goodness. Better said than done. But think with all these freedom its only a minority that is taking the "wrong" path.

pavalamani pragasam

22nd September 2005, 11:07 AM

That is solace indeed. But big fires start from a spark :shock:

pavalamani pragasam

25th September 2005, 08:30 AM

[tscii:af6b49c795]From an article in today’s “Times of India”:

As if there weren’t enough women making news legitimately (or illegitimately), our two news magazines chose a week already in the throes of XXcess to unleash surveys indicating dramatic shifts in the female libido. “India Today” spread its cover story, “Sex and the single woman”, like a black satin bedsheet over 58 out of its 90 pages. “Outlook”’s Shefalee Vasudev revealed the trend of women buying men for physical gratification. It was pumped up by a ‘nationwide survey on forbidden sex’, the findings elevated by the classy photographs of Anita Khemka. Both magazines provided stastical endorsement of the widely known fact that today women are the more orgasmically adventurous, and the Dead Brown Male is swiftly- and boringly- joining his already extinct White counterpart.

Should we respond with applause or anxiety? It would depend on your chromosomal combination. However, if you try not to look at these surveys through the highly distorting prism of gender, you will see them as something else. As simply one more milestone in the recent journey of the Kama Sutra from sexual drive to circulation drive. When competition is aroused or readership droops, publish a sex survey. Or get a B-string to charge up the tale.

Media seems to have become the closest kith and Kinsey of sexual behaviour. We’ve been throwing the stuff at our readers without the slightest slip of our our sangfreud. Do any of these survey findings unshackle the attitudes of our authority figures? No. Do they alter more personal gender equations? No. Do they make life less fraught for hormonally healthy women? No. Do they give us journalists our raises? Yesss!
[/tscii:af6b49c795]

lordstanher

25th September 2005, 12:13 PM

Hi all,
Quite a worthy discuission in this thread since I last visited.......unftly my PC is currently under repair & I can't afford to type for too long from net cafes but nevrtheless I've been reading all the posts in the last 2-3 pages......
PP ma'm, one query tho from ur posts- wats this abt Sarees/half-saress as dress-codes for girls?? :shock:
I thot this was the case 2-3 decades ago! :D and tat Salwar Kameez had been accepted as a Standard dress code for college girls (atleast in south)?? :?

lordstanher

25th September 2005, 12:31 PM

the roots of this problem are three main reasons

1)television.....,which is telecasting some non-sense....especially certain english channels...

Its not only English/foreign TV channels tat r casting obscene stuff but also sum of our "Indian" channels! Nowadays, sum local regional channels r telecasting programs w/ scenes from local (Indian-made) blue films & also their own vulgar xxx-based serials late at night on weekends! :evil:
Y r the authorities not doing nething abt such channels, instead blaming english/western channels alone?!!

2)internet....the major cause for these type of behaviours by adolescent age groups....they must bring on a rule that noone under 18 must be allowed to cafe.......and the parents must be keen on their children's work on internet(if the connection is at home)

Actually even sum older ppl. browse porn stuff or hav xxx-chats in the cafes or even at home!

further...,the girls must also change......so closer relationship with boys in the name of friendship sometimes gonna finish in @#$%.......there must be a considerable distance between two sexes...so that each will feel that touching each other is not ordinary....its a wierd thing..

I can point out tat one of the root causes of this problem is, as PP ma'm says, the attitude of today's parents, esp. the mothers!
Today even in middle-class families, mothers encourage their daughters to take up competetive studies/careers & r even ready to send them abroad w/out a 2nd thot, but hardly bothering to educate them abt the dangerous temptations/transgressions tat lurk in wait for them during adolescence! They r bent upon orienting them solely towards careers/status in society but not upon developing character or even knowing the basic distinction between good & bad! :evil:
Then at one point, after the daughter has gone beyond their control or puts them to disrepute they weep & moan!

pavalamani pragasam

25th September 2005, 12:37 PM

It is just one of the strictures about dress code for girl students recently introduced in Anna University in Tamil Nadu- only sari & chudidhar allowed, no more tight jeans or provocative tops! This ruling by the administration has raised a lot of hue & cry as naturally expected & made good use of by the printed media! The other rulings are prohibition of cellphones inside the campus & no dance numbers from movies in cultural programmes.

lordstanher

25th September 2005, 01:01 PM

In short ban is not on Vulgarity, but its on Modernity. You wear half saree or saree whichever way you want, the dress code wouldnt touch you. But wear a T-Shirt however well, its a SIN.

Actually I must admit u (& NS) do hav a point in this one matter (altho I beg to differ on wat u call as "Modernity"; its not wearing T-shitrs/shirts or jeans/pants tat makes one modern but one's education & code of conduct).......altho I admire & am fascinated by Sarees, I feel it is rather biased & unilateral to insist tat wearing Sarees automatically guarantees modesty/decency while ALL western dresses don't........the Saree today has lost much of its dignity to 'bold' fashions & cinemas.....for eg. it has now become a common fashion to wear Sarees low on the waist & w/ deeply-low cut blouses tat expose nearly the whole back! :shock: , not only for the well-to-do/fashionable but also the "ordinary", middle-class women......heck, even our lowly maid-servant (who usually wears Half-sarees) wears such blouses for tat matter!
In such a scenario, a shirt w/ a collar tat covers the whole upper body from the neck onwards- if liked to be worn by a woman- wud be more acceptable....?
However, all the same, we mustn't be prepared to make -ve generalisations abt Sarees either! There r 'n' women out there who choose to wear it decently/in an "unprovocative" way! :D

It is not every girl's munthani that falls!

Exactly! :D In fact if u talk abt falling pallus, all working women who wear Sarees have, for the last couple of decades, had enuff caution to pin-up their pallus to their blouses at the shoulder......even housewives while going out r doing the same nowadays! And its also not every woman who exposes vast areas of her midriff/belly while clad in a Saree!

lordstanher

25th September 2005, 01:08 PM

It is just one of the strictures about dress code for girl students recently introduced in Anna University in Tamil Nadu- only sari & chudidhar allowed, no more tight jeans or provocative tops!

Um......Chudidaar makes sense but how many college girls like to wear Sarees (regularly) nowadays??!! :shock:
I was of the impression tat its near-extinct even in case of PG & Ph.d girl students! Atleast in the bigger cities.....? :lol2:

lordstanher

25th September 2005, 01:28 PM

But of the Indian teachers, who chose the saree????? While most were well covered up, we had a number who delighted us to peek into their cholis and navels!!

Yes this was unftly the case even in my old school.....while many of our teachers dressed in a very dignified way in Sarees tat made them look really professional & authoritative, there were also sum who were really bad at wearing them- due to ignorance or in sum cases, deliberately, as a personal misguided notion of looking "beautiful"!
I expect the situation wud've worsened lately w/ the onslaught of the currently fashionable low-cut blouses (which I feel r worse than sleeveless ones!).....imagine the situation where the teacher, while writing on the board, displays her near-total bare back to a class of adolescent students everyday! Which may be y there has been a dress-code in our ex-school for all teahcers to wear coats on (like doctors) during school hours.

In conclusion???? - Conservative dressing can be found in both Western as well as Eastern styles. I believe the University admin. has to sit down and spell out their guidelines clearly, without turning it into a East Vs West, bash! Or in this case, insisting only the saree and churidars as the only choice!!

Also true.......the insisting of Sarees only as the dress code esp. wud also lead to problems nowadays, wat w/ the current fashion "trends" polluting it, as I ment'd above! :(
So IMO, if there r women who r comfortable wearing only Sarees for eg. it shud be a norm for them.....but to be fair, edu. institutions shud also insist tat they shud avoid wearing Sarees w/ those deep/low-cut blouses or diaphanous/low-hip sarees.....and leave the choice of other dresses to those who prefer them, w/ equal 'rules'......thus maintaining a uniform standard of decency despite different outfits, rather than insisting on only one form of attire....

lordstanher

25th September 2005, 01:54 PM

Sari gets its dignity from its wearer's sense of propriety. Bollywood girls wear it, People like Indira Gandhi, Sonia Gandhi also wear it. The same sari definitely gets different tones in both instances.

Exactly PP ma'm! :wink: :D
U've typed out wat I myself feel abt this many times! While imposing a certian outfit may not be fair, we shudn't make -ve generalisations abt an outfit based on how its worn by a certain no. of individuals! I find many (inc. women!) who nowadays say tat Sari is a 'sexy' attire etc.! This is an undoubtedly biased view & ppl. w/ such views r obv. noticing only those women in movies as well as real-life who wear it improperly (as I said, due to ignorance or deliberately) but not those who wear it in a proper, dignified way & obviously respecting it/realising its value- not just Indira Gandhi, Mother Theresa- but many ordinary women as well!
Its mainly cinemas (esp. South) of the last decades & current fashion crazes tat hav maligned the image of the Sari as 'sexy'! :evil:

When an educational institution which has the main duty of shaping a student's personality into a dignified, educated, accountable citizen could not have Bollywood style in mind; only the decent sort known to our mothers & grandmothers.

No doubt the institution wud hav such intentions....but unftly in this case the students may not nec. think the same! For eg. imposing of Sarees as a dress-code might even result in girl-students (or even staff) deliberately wearing them low-hip or w/ 'bare-back' blouses! Imagine particularly, the respect tat students wud hav for dress codes & regulations in their cases, if a lady professor teaching them comes to class everyday in a low-cut blouse or low-hip Saree (but is not caught by the management as she'd be basically wearing a Saree, an outfit tat is approved by the dress-code!) :shock:
Hence, while it wudn't be nec. to debate on traditional vs. Western dresses as appropriate dress-code, the authorities shud make sure tat watever type of outfit is chosen is governed by fair regulations of decency/modesty.
PS>> I've spent much too long time in this net cafe' today & not sure how soon I can revert again....but I'll be back! :D

sivajayan

25th September 2005, 04:11 PM

Imagine particularly, the respect tat students wud hav for dress codes & regulations in their cases, if a lady professor teaching them comes to class everyday in a low-cut blouse or low-hip Saree (but is not caught by the management as she'd be basically wearing a Saree, an outfit tat is approved by the dress-code!) :shock:

The students are there to study anyway. Does it matter what they study? Or imagine that (male) students come to classes dressed in saree of any style! How about that? Is it beyond your imagination?

From my personal point of view only the rarity makes the difference and the beauty. If there is a black sheep among the white ones, I don't think that it is the mistake of the black one. It is only the wrong doing of those who stare at the abnormality!

PS>> I've spent much too long time in this net cafe' today & not sure how soon I can revert again....but I'll be back! :D
Don't worry!
As you state PP Madame "types out" for you :lol:

pavalamani pragasam

26th September 2005, 08:09 AM

[tscii:92f67bfe19]WHAT I HAD QUOTED YESTERDAY ABOUT THE INDIAN ENGLISH MAGAZINES HOLDS GOOD FOR TAMIL MAGAZINES ALSO:

Here is what Kushpoo said in an interview to a Tamil weekly:

“Our society must free ourselves from expectations that all brides should be virgins…The educated will certainly understand my views. I am not bothered about the ones who misunderstood them…What is the culture that these people are talking about? Is there anybody in Tamil Nadu who is not aware of sex? How many men and women can you find who have not had premarital sex?”
[/tscii:92f67bfe19]

rajraj

26th September 2005, 08:48 AM

And, I hear, they built a temple for her in Tamilnadu ! :lol:

Badri

26th September 2005, 09:06 AM

And, I hear, they built a temple for her in Tamilnadu ! :lol:

Where they also once built a temple for Kannagi!!

Chappani

26th September 2005, 10:59 AM

Madam PP,

I would like to hear your wise views on Kushboo's comments :) . I personally would not endorse her opinion, :oops: please let us know your views Mam.

Thanks,

a.ratchasi

26th September 2005, 11:25 AM

I think what Kushboo had meant to say has been taken out of context. She was merely referring to the waywards who had made an irrevocable mistake in life.

Her outburst was directed to the general public to stop being judgemental and let the err'd ones to lead their lives without any attached social stigma.

It is not a call to shed off one's binding morality.

nirosha sen

26th September 2005, 02:12 PM

Considering how much life is like in the fish-bowl of public life, which is what the cine world is like, I believe Kushboo was merely defending herself here!

No matter how checkered her life might have been, I do think she indeed is entitled to make her mistakes and learn from it. She may not be advocating such a life for others, just begging society to be a little more sensitive towards those who've made different choices!! 8)

And it's not her fault, if some idiots got carried away and built that temple in her name!! :x

ssanjinika

26th September 2005, 10:19 PM

PP Mam,

I would also like to know your view on Kushboo's statement.
Personally I feel sex premarital or otherwise should be between 2 people within 4 walls.No one else has the right to comment on whether it is right or wrong.It totally depends on the people involved and the feelings between them.Just my opinion :).

sivajayan

27th September 2005, 07:19 PM

-deleted-

stranger

27th September 2005, 08:26 PM

I dont think Kushboo meant anything wrong! Like "aunty" said she is defending herself, I suppose. I feel bad for her as she got into the "mess"! :cry: It is also possible that Kushboo is unaware of the fact that in India or TN even today not only a high percentage of women but also MEN are getting exposed to "shanthi" only after their marriage. It must have been her ignorance if she really meant "what is claimed as she said" by the media. Of course ignorance is not an excuse sometimes! There is a price she needs to pay for it. However I think PMK and Viduthalai siRuththaigaL are just politicising it in order to pay off Kushboo for her defense against the "outrageous statement" made by "another fellow cine artiste", namely Thankar "cockroach" (what kind of thamizh name is his last name anyway??? :roll:) Kushboo should have been careful when "airing" some sensitive issues to the world especialy just after using "pesticides" to take care of "the cockroach"! 8)

a.ratchasi

28th September 2005, 09:13 AM

Kushboo's Clarification (http://www.cinesouth.com/masala/hotnews/new/27092005-1.shtml)

pavalamani pragasam

28th September 2005, 11:21 AM

News from home is heartening :) The people of Tamil Nadu did not take it lying down :D

pavalamani pragasam

28th September 2005, 11:33 AM

Reply to ssanjanika:
The act of sex takes place within four walls, yes, at least continues to in our country-in most parts. We still feel not inclined to the follow the beasts to do it in the open. But this act taking place inside four walls has definite, serious bearing on the world outside, reflects a lot of cultivated, inherited habits of thought & behaviour, has indirect power to shape, design the fabric of social life of a people.

Badri

28th September 2005, 11:40 AM

News from home is heartening :) The people of Tamil Nadu did not take it lying down :D

A thousand people in the world make a thousand comments! That one of them spoke with her foot in her mouth is made such a big issue and a hue and cry is made about it!

Pity at times like this, people don't recollect Jesus Christ's famous one about casting the first stone! I have nothing to say in support or against Kushboo's statement. It is her opinion, and she is entitled to it. She was foolish perhaps, in making it in a forum that has given it this much publicity, but to say she was even wrong to say it, encroaches upon freedom of thought and expression. But what I do find pitiable is that there is a whole segment of people in TN that are so aimless and jobless that they are literally waiting to chew anything that comes their way!

Mennuvatharku aval kidaikkumo ena kaathurikkum gumbal!!

pavalamani pragasam

28th September 2005, 12:31 PM

NOV

28th September 2005, 01:05 PM

I got to agree with PP on this Badri. Freedom of Speech doesn't end there. It comes with Responsibility.

It doesn't and cannot mean that one can say anything one likes, especially of other people. If Kushboo was talking about herself, what you have said will hold true. She cannot make generalised statements such as this and hide under the shadow of freedom-of-speech.

If you apply the "cast the first stone" theory on all issues, then we might as well tear down all pillars of civilisation, such as the judiciary and executioners like the police.

pavalamani pragasam

28th September 2005, 01:39 PM

Thanx a lot, Nov :)

Badri

28th September 2005, 01:59 PM

What NOV says about the first stone is right! And neither did I mean it in that sense as to tear down establishment becos the establishment is not perfect.

But as regards the big hue and cry about something that for all we know is pretty much the state of affairs in today's world, that is ridiculous. As I said, she was foolish to have said it in a forum that made it so public, but what I ridiculed was the entire set of people jumping on to make a big mountain of it! That, to me was sadly plain sensationalism and hypocrisy and all pretenses to be culture or moral police will not sell!

As I said, I neither support her view nor condemn it. It is her view, she has every right to say it! If she wants to be insensible and state it where it can draw ire, that is also upto her. It is making a big fuss over it, despite her tendering an apology and stuff is what is idiotic.

Badri

28th September 2005, 02:06 PM

What a total lack of social consciousness? Will nobody think about the slur cast on aspiring, educated, promising young men & women of a part of the world proudly going about its life righteously & purposefully?
What right has anyone to shatter the prospective peace & calm of the marital lives of lakhs of young people? :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

What slur has been cast? All she said was people should be more open to these things. Does she say every married women today is a slut? I do not think so. Much as I am not in favor of her opinions, I would still insist that making such a fuss about this matter is unrealistic and unwarranted. If anything, it gave people who have under duress/temptation given into the act prior to marriage some hope too!

NOV

28th September 2005, 02:13 PM

But as regards the big hue and cry about something that for all we know is pretty much the state of affairs in today's world, that is ridiculous. Now you are treading on dangerous grounds.
Do you have any statistics to support this statement? Or is based on your circle of friends/acquaintances? I hope you see where I am driving at

That, to me was sadly plain sensationalism and hypocrisy and all pretenses to be culture or moral police will not sell! Sensationalism is correct. But sensationalism by itself is not wrong; how to whip up support if not for it? :)
I think this one makes more sense that stirring up issues such as English names for movies or SJ Surya case.

As I said, I neither support her view nor condemn it. It is her view, she has every right to say it!
:banghead:
Read my earlier post again.

It is making a big fuss over it, despite her tendering an apology and stuff is what is idiotic.Hasn't the issue settled down after her apology? :huh:

a.ratchasi

28th September 2005, 02:31 PM

Sandeep

28th September 2005, 02:58 PM

But as regards the big hue and cry about something that for all we know is pretty much the state of affairs in today's world, that is ridiculous.
Now you are treading on dangerous grounds.
Do you have any statistics to support this statement? Or is based on your circle of friends/acquaintances? I hope you see where I am driving at

Nov you seem to have missed the part of why Kushbu made this comment.

An opinion poll was conducted by Outlook and published by India Today and Outlook about sex outside marraige which showed that most are not so righteous in India as they claim to be. Kushbu was responding to a query by India Today on this opinion poll.

So whether good or bad her comments have statistical backing.

But come on let us all punish her 'for she has cried out the forbidden truth'.

pavalamani pragasam

28th September 2005, 03:08 PM

Sandeep

28th September 2005, 03:26 PM

Thanx, once again, Nov. :)

When the dust settles down, we should say with resignation, "let barking dogs bark". People bent going the way of the temptations of the flesh are not going to listen to reason or sense. Let them go damn themselves. It is a pity, however, like a speeding car splashing mud on the innocent pedestrians. We cant expect thick-skinned, depraved people to appreciate the delicate nuances of decent, meaningful, worthwhile life.

Agree with you on this except the 'speeding car splashing mud' part.

Nobody is splashing mud on others. They are only rolling themselves in mud.

Since we dont like mud we should just keep away.

pavalamani pragasam

28th September 2005, 03:42 PM

Yes, but clean people cant help being angered by mud-slingers! :evil:

stranger

28th September 2005, 07:21 PM

An opinion poll was conducted by Outlook and published by India Today and Outlook about sex outside marraige which showed that most are not so righteous in India as they claim to be. Kushbu was responding to a query by India Today on this opinion poll.

You-all believe that "Opinion poll"????

India today came up with an opinion of poll of "high class" people or "kushboo class". I even remember the article, "maaRivrum Indian women's sex awareness or of that sort" I remember reading a similar article about 10-15 years ago from the same India today. Trust me, It was nothing but BS!

You believe that opinion poll conducted on this kind of issue??? How many women will go talk about sex to some strangers ???

They dont know anything about the reality. Kushboo should have been taught the "right scenario" by C Sundar. May be, he does not know the reality either! I still believe she was ignorant!

ssanjinika

28th September 2005, 10:11 PM

Whether the opinion poll was baised or not the fact remains that Kushboo was out of line speaking about such a sensitive issue publicly in the manner she spoke.She should have had more forethought than that..should have realised how the issue would snowball since she is such a public fig.She is ofcourse entitled to her opinion and what she said was not necessarily bad or wrong..just the way she put it is came out crass I think.

rajraj

28th September 2005, 10:32 PM

You-all believe that "Opinion poll"????

stranger,
In a country with a population of more than 1 billion, polls take considerable preparation in selecting a sample size and distribution of poll participants. This poll is statistically insignificant, I am sure. Ask any statistician. If it was confined to urban areas like Delhi,Bombay, Madras and Calcutta you can be sure the results do not apply to the general population. If the poll taker ever went to rural areas and asked those questions, he/she probably won't return home alive.
Even some Indians living in the US do not allow their daughters to date. You can imagine how it is in Madras, a conservative metropolis.
India is changing. I see that everytime I visit India. But, not that fast! :)

stranger

28th September 2005, 10:37 PM

stranger,
India is changing. I see that everytime I visit India. But, not that fast! :)
You made your point clearly and beautifully, raj! :thumbsup:

Badri

29th September 2005, 05:40 AM

[tscii:36488ffa1f]
As for Kushboo; basically she gave her own opinion on premarital sex and women in TN who practice this. I think she should have thought carefully about this before making such a statement publicly. Common sense would say that some people, genuine and pseudo moralists alike, will take issue with this. After Thankar’s gaffe, Kushboo should have known better to just shut up. The last thing people need to hear after Thankar’s gaffe is someone trying to sound cool, liberal and indifferent on women and pre-marital sex.

As for Thirumavalavan, this man basically needs to be put in his place. This self proclaimed moral police should seriously start re-examining his political stance and future. (In fact I think voters should take a hard look at his political stance. Does he have any thing to offer the common man to make their lives better?) And does anyone see his hypocrisy in all this? He’s against Kushboo’s statement as it attacks the morality of Tamil women. Yet he was silent on Thankar’s insult on actresses. Aren’t actresses women too? It’s quite obvious that he was very vocal on Kushboo’s statement due to his support of Thankar- it’s almost like revenge. It’s pathetic and childish actually.

I couldn't help posting this here from the Kushboo controversy thread. Not only because it adequately captures my own thoughts and feelings but also is such a logical and well-balanced statement by Kumar! It is the views expressed in the second paragraph of this well-written piece which I tried to endorse. Instead of taking Kushboo apart for a statement which, as Sandeep and A.Ratchasi have both pointed out, was based on the results of a well-publicised poll, people with common sense should have condemmned Thirumavalavan's immature vindictiveness. That was the only point I was trying to make. The wrong tree is being barked at!

Thanks Kumar for this well-balanced view! Sorry, I "suttufied" it like this!

[/tscii:36488ffa1f]

Kumar

29th September 2005, 06:02 AM

Thanks Kumar for this well-balanced view! Sorry, I "suttufied" it like this!

"Suttufying" accepted, Badri. No problem at all. :wink:

Badri

29th September 2005, 06:18 AM

It is making a big fuss over it, despite her tendering an apology and stuff is what is idiotic.Hasn't the issue settled down after her apology? :huh:

No, NOV! I beleive someone has filed a defamtion suit against her for having hurt the sentiments of many women!!

Defamation suit?

:rotfl:

Badri

29th September 2005, 06:27 AM

Interesting article by Sudhish Kamath in the Hindu!

http://www.hindu.com/2005/09/29/stories/2005092916020300.htm

r_kk

29th September 2005, 07:33 AM

[tscii:83059ddc1f]Why we Tamilians are so hypercritic and not even tolerate or allowing an actress to tell her opinion? She is not saying that pre-martial sex is the most correct one than maintaining virginity. Even if she had said some thing opposite to our current so-called social values, it is her views and she has full right to express it.

As Badri rightly put it, if we consider the virginity as the status of purity of mind, then most of people from our society may not have the right to throw the stones. When we compare the crime against women (in the form of eve teasing, sexual harassment, illegal/forced prostitution, unaccounted abortion, dowry deaths, female fetus aborting, killing of female babies) and sexually distributed AIDS cases, we Indians may beat many European countries, where pre-martial sex is not a big issue. For example, I would like to quote the latest study by a social scientist Gregory Paul ( http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2005/s1470370.htm ) based on the data from the International Social Survey Program, Gallup and other research bodies, in which he concludes that more open society like France, Japan and the Scandinavian countries are most successful in reducing murder rates, early mortality, sexually transmitted diseases and abortion. aS i WROTE BEFORE, another best example is about the matriarchal tribal society of China called Mosuo ( http://my.execpc.com/~wmvoice/paper/momnews.htm ), where virginity is not the baseline for a healthier family and crime free society.

Among Tamils (even among their Gods), the virginity is the term only related to women. It very clearly indicates that this is invention of male dominated society with the aim to ensure very own offspring, just like all other animals. “Peyyne peyyum mazai” “Kallanum Kanavan pullannulam purusan” sort of proverbs only indicates how women are brainwashed to believe the golden cage as a beautiful place to live.

Our present day marriage system is losing its value. The “Agananutru Kaadal”, where love is the whole hearted reason to devout ones life and body for his/her lover, is nearly vansihing. What we have is the remains of a marriage system, which is primarily based on the financial and social status of brides and grooms, fixed through the many matrimonial columns. The current difficulties to attain such social and financial status takes away the great youth hood where hormonal activities are very active. Hence I feel it is unnatural to expect highest quality of personal integrity for such financial deal called “marriage”.

I am not supporting perverted society or animalistic way of living or a society where sex is considered as object to sell. What I support is a very open society where the individuals have the chance to live as per their wish (without hurting other’s feelings or harming others physically or emotionally just to satisfy individual happiness), not forced or feared to live as per the opinion of prejudiced views of society. I feel the basic aim of sex is keeping progeny not just pleasure. If two individuals are matured enough to understand and accept the outcome (bringing up the children as long as they are physically and mentally dependent) of such act, then they have the full right to act as per their own interests.

Can anyone, those who oppose her views, explain how her views affect the society?

[/tscii:83059ddc1f]

dev

29th September 2005, 07:49 AM

Yes, but clean people cant help being angered by mud-slingers! :evil:

I don't think She said that everyone in tamilnadu aren't clean... If a person knows that he/she's clean,why should they be even bothered about her comments???!!!... I feel a matured mind would just laugh off this comment of hers...

dev

29th September 2005, 08:07 AM

BTW,What is this Thankar issue?...can someone provide a link from where I can read abt it?...

a.ratchasi

29th September 2005, 08:08 AM

Why we Tamilians are so hypercritic and not even tolerate or allowing an actress to tell her opinion? She is not saying that pre-martial sex is the most correct one than maintaining virginity. Even if she had said some thing opposite to our current so-called social values, it is her views and she has full right to express it.

As Badri rightly put it, if we consider the virginity as the status of purity of mind, then most of people from our society may not have the right to throw the stones.

Exactly, r_kk!

Dev, how very right you are!

pavalamani pragasam

29th September 2005, 08:29 AM

Funny I should remember now the Tamil proverb my grandma used to say, "should the person going to toilet in public feel ashamed or the person who happens to see it?"

dev

29th September 2005, 08:50 AM

Funny I should remember now the Tamil proverb my grandma used to say, "should the person going to toilet in public feel ashamed or the person who happens to see it?"

who,in ur view, should feel ashamed,PP mam?... I don't understand what this proverb is all abt... :?

pavalamani pragasam

29th September 2005, 10:44 AM

Forget it :lol:

dev

29th September 2005, 11:04 AM

PP mam, I didn't really get what U mean to say... what is the message u want to convey thru tht proverb?... :?

pavalamani pragasam

29th September 2005, 11:44 AM

Just ignore it, I said. :lol:

dev

29th September 2005, 12:00 PM

:huh:

lordstanher

29th September 2005, 05:10 PM

*Phew* been having sum trouble accessing the Hub lately.....neways....:D

The students are there to study anyway. Does it matter what they study?
Hmm.....wat exactly is ur point?? R u saying tat when u were in college, this is wat U wud study?? :wink:
Or if/when ur kids r in college u'd spend so much of ur money on them only to study this?? :lol2:

Or imagine that (male) students come to classes dressed in saree of any style! How about that? Is it beyond your imagination?
:?: U didn't seem to've got my point at all! :lol: I was merely pointing out the possible double standards in certain dress codes......I meant tat if girl students r forbidden from wearing even ordinary shirts w/ collars (altho I'm against tight Tees/jeans!) tat cover u from the neck onwards, how cud the edu. institutions consider it acceptable if sumone (student/lecturer) comes wearing a low-cut blouse w/ the sari (if introduced as a dress-code)....? Tats wat I was tryin to say.......got it??

From my personal point of view only the rarity makes the difference and the beauty. If there is a black sheep among the white ones, I don't think that it is the mistake of the black one. It is only the wrong doing of those who stare at the abnormality!
Again, wats ur point Sir?? :?: R u saying tat u wudn't go the extent of staring at such "abonormalities"?? & even if u didn't, wud u expect every other adolescent guy to be the same?? Or take an instance of ur own family members- wud u allow them to carry on w/ such "abonormalities"??
And btw, wat "rarity" r u talking abt?? If u live in post-2000 India, u'd notice tat the fashion in question is by no means a rarity now! :lol2:
Neways, the making of these dress codes is supposedly while keeping the attitudes of the adolescents in mind!

lordstanher

29th September 2005, 05:19 PM

This poll is statistically insignificant, I am sure. Ask any statistician. If it was confined to urban areas like Delhi,Bombay, Madras and Calcutta you can be sure the results do not apply to the general population. If the poll taker ever went to rural areas and asked those questions, he/she probably won't return home alive.
Hmm.......well, I dunno abt rural areas in other states.....but I've been visiting the Andhranews forum lately & it turns out tat promiscuity (apart from prostitution) is all the more prevalent in the rural areas/districts of AP, as opposed to Urban cities like Hyd./Vizag.......:?

Even some Indians living in the US do not allow their daughters to date. You can imagine how it is in Madras, a conservative metropolis.
Cud Madras still be called as conservative?? :shock:

India is changing. I see that everytime I visit India. But, not that fast! :)

Not tat fast- tat might be a momentary relief :)......but changing it is I'm afraid!

lordstanher

29th September 2005, 08:03 PM

[tscii:c17cd2608c]
I think she should have thought carefully about this before making such a statement publicly. Common sense would say that some people, genuine and pseudo moralists alike, will take issue with this.[/tscii:c17cd2608c]

I very much agree w/ this statement! Altho many of us might feel tat Kushboo didn't mean nething harmful unlike wat ppl. were made to fathom, she shudn't hav made such 'bold' comments on wat is treated as a senstive issue in our society, unmindful of the consequences tat she wud face! Added to this the local media, which can be capable of twisting words w/ a catchy headline itself, made her sound like she'd expressed sumthing intentionally perverse & demeaning!
As the saying goes, Silence is foolish if we sound wise but wise if we sound foolish! :wink:
However, I'm really bemused at the fact tat a politician was one of the main ppl. who raised an uproar against her statement! Its an open secret tat most of the politicians r involved in various immoral/perverse acts themselves as their pastimes/businesses! :evil: Downright double-standards tat they shud pick on sumone just talking abt accepting pre-marital sex in our society!

lordstanher

29th September 2005, 08:04 PM

[tscii:6a50284e55]
I think she should have thought carefully about this before making such a statement publicly. Common sense would say that some people, genuine and pseudo moralists alike, will take issue with this.[/tscii:6a50284e55]

I very much agree w/ this statement! Altho many of us might feel tat Kushboo didn't mean nething harmful unlike wat ppl. were made to fathom, she shudn't hav made such 'bold' comments on wat is treated as a senstive issue in our society, unmindful of the consequences tat she wud face! Added to this the local media, which can be capable of twisting words w/ a catchy headline itself, made her sound like she'd expressed sumthing intentionally perverse & demeaning!
As the saying goes, Silence is foolish if we sound wise but wise if we sound foolish! :wink:
However, I'm really bemused at the fact tat a politician was one of the main ppl. who raised an uproar against her statement! Its an open secret tat most of the politicians r involved in various immoral/perverse acts themselves as their pastimes/businesses! :evil: Downright double-standards tat they shud pick on sumone just talking abt accepting pre-marital sex in our society!

stranger

29th September 2005, 08:48 PM

Why we Tamilians are so hypercritic and not even tolerate or allowing an actress to tell her opinion?

Can anyone, those who oppose her views, explain how her views affect the society?

Nope, we all should whole-heartedly accept that we have had pre-marital sex and make that statement or challenge TRUE! It does not matter even you yourself were a virgin before your marriage.

Let us admit what she says is 100% correct and be a non-hypocrite!

Why should we care or worry if an actress does not know the difference between her sex life and others' sex life???

Even if she thinks being a virgin during one's wedding is a shame- like westerners believes in-, it is okay.

Tomorrow she will also say, there is nothing wrong in having extramarital affairs as long as you protect yurself from infectious diseases.

The important thing is we all tamilians should get the name of practically impossible "non-hypocrite" degree!

That is all counts! Nothing else! 8)

I wonder how does she suggest to be safe from AIDS- infection?

Get a hiv-antibody test before having sex with the partner???

Let us ask Kushboo who seems to know everything very well!

stranger

29th September 2005, 11:09 PM

Can anyone, those who oppose her views, explain how her views affect the society?

If u dont oppose, it might make it look like we are all guilty -as if 100% of TN's today are involved in premarital sex- which is UNTRUE.

We just have to let her know in a civilized manner that her notion is not quite true.

Again, if at all Kushboo had really challenged as it has been said,

* How many men and women are not involved in premarital sex?

* Nowadays men do not care about the affairs their betterhalves had before their marriage.

I seriously think she is with a WRONG assumption and she needs to be corrected in a civilized manner for her "mistake"! 8)

BTW, how many percentage of TN people have aids????

it is not more than 10% right?

90% of the people are safer. It is quite a lot and the 90% will react for an accusation like this! 8)

r_kk

30th September 2005, 03:13 AM

[tscii:a8b3cab21a]The big hue and cry by “Viduthalai Siruthaikal” and “PMK” is more political than emotional. If you want to know the origin of currently blown up so called “character assignation of Tamils”, then please read the page2 of the following article.
http://www.charuonline.com/kp160.html

[/tscii:a8b3cab21a]

stranger

30th September 2005, 03:23 AM

r_kk:

* I fully agree it is fully political.

* I never support pmk or viduthalai siRuththaigaL

* If you wish please visit Kushboo controversy thread and see my earlier responses.

* But, there are several "thamizh kudi makkaL" who are being badly HURT by her statement or challenge and feel like insulted!

* If the modern world is going to make our tradition and culture to look ridiculous, then nothing wrong in white people's notion that we are all barbarians!

* Because today, if we admit that their way of "sex life" is the correct way, then we admit that we were living like barbarians in the past century!

* And our culture and civilization and customs were going to look ridiculous.

Are you ready to accept that tamilians are barbarians ????

* I seriously think we should not PUT a SEAL on a person who slept with only one person all his/her life as a #1 fool or a barbarian in the world?

* I have a bad feeling that that is what the modern world is trying to do by "using" excuses such as AIDS or HIV or whatsoever.

* Do you want such individuals look ridiculous in front of "Kushboo class" people????

I don't think it is FAIR

pavalamani pragasam

30th September 2005, 04:43 AM

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Sandeep

30th September 2005, 08:08 AM

* If the modern world is going to make our tradition and culture to look ridiculous, then nothing wrong in white people's notion that we are all barbarians!

* Because today, if we admit that their way of "sex life" is the correct way, then we admit that we were living like barbarians in the past century!

* And our culture and civilization and customs were going to look ridiculous.

Are you ready to accept that tamilians are barbarians ????

* I seriously think we should not PUT a SEAL on a person who slept with only one person all his/her life as a #1 fool or a barbarian in the world?

* I have a bad feeling that that is what the modern world is trying to do by "using" excuses such as AIDS or HIV or whatsoever.

* Do you want such individuals look ridiculous in front of "Kushboo class" people????

I don't think it is FAIR

1) AIDS is out of control in Africa, and everyone knows it. But by some estimates, the most AIDS-infected country is no longer in Africa.

It's in Asia, and the country is India

2) Approximately 25,000 dowry deaths per year.

3) Statistics from 2000 showed that on average a woman is raped every hour in India.

4) Sexual trends in India, according to statistics presented by Avishkaar, a counselling clinic in Mumbai, threw up some alarming facts:

~ The all India occurrence of STDs in the age group of 18 to 30 is as high as 48 to 52 per cent!

Of this, approximately 60 per cent hail from the lower strata of society where there is a lack of awareness about safe sex. The figure is approximately 20 per cent among the middle and upper classes.

THESE ARE TRUTHS ABOUT INDIA.

BUT NO THIS DOESNOT MAKE ANY OF THESE "GOOD" OR "RIGHT".

BUT IF YOU DONT ACCEPT THE TRUTH THEN THATS THE BIGGEST MISTAKE.

pavalamani pragasam

30th September 2005, 09:20 AM

For a country so vast, with a population of an alarming size and a relatively young history...If only corruption in politics could be brought under check..Under the stewardship of enthusiastic leaders like Kalam the youth can easily take the country to the top of the world. But look at all the negative forces working on the environment of today's youth in rural & urban areas through the ubiquitous MEDIA! No role models imagined, fantasised but only a crass class of heroes & heroines churned out with all the foul fith of an alien culture! With enough motivation, encouragement & proper guidance both the rural & urban masses can be cajoled to do wonderfully well in the world arena. What we elect is what we get. Should we not be more careful?

r_kk

30th September 2005, 01:24 PM

[tscii:538943a418]
r_kk:
Are you ready to accept that tamilians are barbarians ????

* I seriously think we should not PUT a SEAL on a person who slept with only one person all his/her life as a #1 fool or a barbarian in the world?

* I have a bad feeling that that is what the modern world is trying to do by "using" excuses such as AIDS or HIV or whatsoever.

* Do you want such individuals look ridiculous in front of "Kushboo class" people????

I don't think it is FAIR

“Ouvanaku oruthi’ concept is one of the best concepts where a human can keep their mind away from wandering on basic animal instincts. But this should come from the whole hearted wishes of the individuals. Such concept provides a nice atmosphere for offspring and meets all their emotional needs. At the same time, we have to note that physical virginity is not a prime important issue in a good free society for the cordial relations among family, and people are more tolerant to accept the other person with their limitations and weaknesses (In Muoso society, even possiveness is missing and realtions are without any financial expectations). How we can say that we are superior than many innocent tribes?

Unfortunately, among Tamils/Indians the term virginity is now related to only “physical status of body” rather than “personal integrity of mind”. That’s why Jayakanthan’s story (Agni Parikshai) about reinstalling virginity by just bathing a rape victim by her mother made a very big hue and cry in our society in 70s. But, on the other hand the movies, which show a rape victim marrying the rapist (Puthiya Paathai) is becoming very successful. When it comes to the widow remarriages Tamil movie directors makes the widowhood immediately after the marriage (for ex. Ritham, Vaideki Kathirunthal).

Don’t you feel some thing wrong with this?

Are you ready to accept that tamilians are barbarians ????

No, certainly not. I respect some of the great cultural values of Tamils. I am very much proud to say that Tamils had the concept of “piran mania vizaya peramani” and other high morals system even 2100 years back. It doesn’t mean that our social system today is much better than the western society, since they have different values to different acts. The western societies also respect those who maintained personal integrity and whole hearted love (ex. stories like Romeo/Juliet, Edward VII).

* I seriously think we should not PUT a SEAL on a person who slept with only one person all his/her life as a #1 fool or a barbarian in the world?

I agree to your point. But, in my opinion, such persons need not bother about what the remaining world calls them. I prefer to be called as “rough barbarian” on so many issues rather then getting accepted as “polished gentleman” on the issues which I believe as correct and as long as my personal action brings no harm to others. The physical virginity is purely a personal preference. I don’t think that any strong individuals will give up their personal integrity just because of other person’s comments.

* I have a bad feeling that that is what the modern world is trying to do by "using" excuses such as AIDS or HIV or whatsoever.

I respect your feelings. We have to accept that our value system is not the same as the Sankam or pre-sankam Tamils. Please read about the statistics of HIV infections, eve teasing and female fetus aborting. I never came across sex selection among any westerners (based on many years of interactions) but I had seen strong desire for male babies among Tamilians. Do we consider female children as burden or Goddess? Why such the feeling of burden or object to be protected comes in to our mind?

* Do you want such individuals look ridiculous in front of "Kushboo class" people????

I respect even “Kushboo class” (?!) people. It is their life. The people those who themselves believe that they are some higher class, need not bother or feel ridiculous in front of “Kushboo class” people.

I don't think it is FAIR.
Yah, if she had made some bad or blanket comments about Tamil society, then it is not fair. What she told is more or like her individual opinion about some statistics. If she had said that there is no virgin in Tamilnadu or Tamil ancestral culture was barbaric, I will be standing at your side. Recommending contraceptive for unhealthy relationships and protection measures against sexually transmitted disease cannot be considered as the recommendation to involve such acts.

[/tscii:538943a418]

blahblah

30th September 2005, 03:41 PM

With enough motivation, encouragement & proper guidance both the rural & urban masses can be cajoled to do wonderfully well in the world arena. What we elect is what we get. Should we not be more careful?

Where are the options?The majority is always with criminals and casteists.Who wants to encourage and guide the rural people?You are anyway between the devil and the sea.
Education is the one and only option before us.Till these people become educated they will refuse to change.
By the way,what was this thread about? :roll:

ssanjinika

30th September 2005, 07:59 PM

With enough motivation, encouragement & proper guidance both the rural & urban masses can be cajoled to do wonderfully well in the world arena. What we elect is what we get. Should we not be more careful?
I do not agree..In order to perform well, the common masses must be willing to be cajoled,to be motivated and should accept encouragement.In a society where blind faith on politicians,actors,actressess is the norm the bigger picture is lost.The view is only till the next election,next release etc.
YES!!Education would help in moving the country fwd.More importantly there should be more focus on the country as a whole and less focus on different Religions/Cultures/Languages/States etc etc etc.I have no idea on how to bring about this change..Dont know if education would help!

stranger

1st October 2005, 01:00 AM

BUT IF YOU DONT ACCEPT THE TRUTH THEN THATS THE BIGGEST MISTAKE.

And WHO does not accept the TRUTH here?

1) AIDS is out of control in Africa, and everyone knows it. But by some estimates, the most AIDS-infected country is no longer in Africa. It's in Asia, and the country is India

What are your suggestions to take care of the AIDS here! :?

Are you trying to say what???

Whatever they are, let me make few things clear!

* HIV awareness and protected sex practices has nothing to do with "premarital sex" or "postmarital sex".

* One just has to be taught how one really gets infected by a virus!

* A wise mother can teach her sensible daughter EASILY. That is as simple as that!

* That is the solution for controlling HIV

* And definitely not "encouraging" to have multiple sex partners or to have teen-sex experience!

I am afraid that such an "encouragement" of "not to worry" or implying "go ahead and get experienced like westerners do" will bring several "teen-MOTHERS" like we see in the Hispanic or AAmerican population of the civilized countries!

BTW, In africa, premarital sex practice is VERY COMMON! That is why they went ahead of us!

ssanjinika

1st October 2005, 01:13 AM

Stranger I think you are missing the point here.

No one is argueing for premarital sex..we are just saying if ever u find yourself in such a situation or if you think its a possibility just be prepared so that you dont get some dreaded disease or find yourself with a child to support.
This is in no way pro premarital sex. Its just saying Be Safe than Sorry!!

stranger

1st October 2005, 01:19 AM

I am sorry, I dont think so, SS! :)

ssanjinika

1st October 2005, 01:28 AM

:)

Well..you are entitled to your opinion!

Sandeep

3rd October 2005, 07:39 AM

BUT IF YOU DONT ACCEPT THE TRUTH THEN THATS THE BIGGEST MISTAKE.

And WHO does not accept the TRUTH here?

When Khushbu said premarital sex was wide spread in India why was she attacked? No where did she say it was right.

If we keep pushing problems under the carpet they will lie there are decay. Its better to bring the problems in the open and deal with it.

* [b] HIV awareness and protected sex practices has nothing to do with "premarital sex" or "postmarital sex".

BTW, In africa, premarital sex practice is VERY COMMON! That is why they went ahead of us!

Dont contradict yourself !!!

* HIV awareness and protected sex practices has nothing to do with "premarital sex" or "postmarital sex".

* One just has to be taught how one really gets infected by a virus!

* A wise mother can teach her sensible daughter EASILY. That is as simple as that!

* That is the solution for controlling HIV

* And definitely not "encouraging" to have multiple sex partners or to have teen-sex experience!

Its a proven fact that multiple-sex/teen sex is the main reason for HIV spreading and as you said "encouraging" them will be counter productive.

But unless there is awareness among the masses that these things are happening in their neibourhood why will they take the effort (its not easy to talk about sex with your children) to talk to their children about all this. Parents need to understand that there is a good possibility that their child may get into all these. Then only will they feel the urge to speak to their children.

stranger

3rd October 2005, 10:33 PM

When Khushbu said premarital sex was wide spread in India why was she attacked? No where did she say it was right.

I thought she challenged,

* How many men and women are not involved in premarital sex?

As if everyone is INVOLVED and everyone is LYING! WHAT kind of challenge is THAT???

should not I protest agianst her "allegation" even if I were neither involved nor I am HIV +ve????

I dont see any problem in protesting against such a challenge of questioning everybody's integrity!

She should withdraw or take back such a challenge

If we keep pushing problems under the carpet they will lie there are decay. Its better to bring the problems in the open and deal with it.

Kushboo's statement is only going to send the younger generation to the GRAVE.

I bet you majority of young punks and bimos will take "only half of her statement" and abuse it and become pregnant/hiv positive.

The percentage of HIV +ve cases is going to raise! because of young innocent victims who will not feel GUILTY in getting engaged in unprotected premarital sex when someone chaleges everybody.

The reasons:

* young women or teenagers are not going to buy Condoms to protect themselves form infectious diseases!

* NO mother or father in TN is going to buy a pack of "Kamasuthra" to their daughter on her 13th birthday nd say "be careful" either!

I dont see that it will work!

So they will end up taking only "encouragement" and end up in a mess!

* Or correct me if I am wrong, Are we going to encourage our teenage sons and 13-19 old daughters to buy condoms using the pocket money???

* or we, ourselves are going get them condoms to protect from infectious diseases???

Are we really "grown up" to that level????

If so, why do we still see 90% arranged marriages???

LET us be PRACTICAL and analyze this carefully!

* HIV awareness and protected sex practices has nothing to do with "premarital sex" or "postmarital sex".

BTW, In africa, premarital sex practice is VERY COMMON! That is why they went ahead of us!

Dont contradict yourself !!!

I dont think I meant to do that.

I meant to say, only illegal affairs and extramarial affairs and prostitution lead us to this scenario of aids here today. There was not MUCH percentage of premarital sex in India because of the FEAR and RESTRICTIONS.

If you encouage premarital sex, and people like Kushboo to direct the younger generation, we will become like Africa soon.

Because we are not going to execute it PROPERLY. Only some "professionals" like Kushboo has the opportunity to be taught by her mom at the early age as there is lot of risk in her profession.

Not a teenage girl who is just infatuated will ever be taught by a mother to carry condoms in her purse!

90% TN population or Indians are getting married by "ARRANGED" EVEN TODAY. :roll: I thought YOU KNEW THAT! :shock:

But unless there is awareness among the masses that these things are happening in their neibourhood why will they take the effort (its not easy to talk about sex with your children) to talk to their children about all this. Parents need to understand that there is a good possibility that their child may get into all these. Then only will they feel the urge to speak to their children.

I dont think we need Kushboo's half-baked suggestion and one-line statement to straighten out the society. If you wish to solve the REAL PROBLEM it has to be carefully done in a systematic way. It takes lot of effort. Kushboo was just "using" infections to save her neck. That is all!

BTW, Except one IDIOT (tb) nobody questioned Kushboo's life until she accuses others' integrity. Nobody cared about her either.

Please dont let her question majority of the innocent tamils' integrity in order to cover her neck or justify her life!

-----------------

* Stranger I think you are missing the point here.

* No one is argueing for premarital sex.. we are just saying if ever u find yourself in such a situation

BTW, SS, * I think Sandeep seems to get the POINT. And he has so much to say.

Thanks for criticism anyway which helped me to modify my post and mess it up too! :)

And there are no WE here. Because every hubber's view is unique and they are all with a good intention. Let us not team up in a silly manner !

pavalamani pragasam

4th October 2005, 07:13 AM

:clap: :clap: :clap:

ssanjinika

5th October 2005, 12:18 AM

And there are no WE here. Because every hubber's view is unique and they are all with a good intention. Let us not team up in a silly manner !

Sorry I really didnt mean to "Team" up in any manner!!
It didnt even strike me that I was grouping people together.Definitely not my intention.

lordstanher

5th October 2005, 02:58 PM

[tscii:8f0ae24278]Boy! Long since I've been able to come online again.......:(

Kushboo's statement is only going to send the younger generation to the GRAVE.
I bet you majority of young ***** and ****** will take "only half of her statement" and abuse it and become pregnant/hiv positive.
Yes, this is also very much possible......cine actors shud think really well abt making such 'bold' statements tat r bound to be taken another way & attract controversy. As it is, many of today's yuppie guys/gals r determined to go against our culture/values in the name of 'moving forward w/ the world'.......they r regretably labouring under the delusion tat the West has come to be 'developed' only bcos of their lack of following ne culture/social mores, which is one reason they behave the way they do....

If so, why do we still see 90% arranged marriages???

The main reason for continuity of arranged marriages in today's scenario is explained aptly by r_kk's post I'm pasting here:

"Our present day marriage system is losing its value. The “Agananutru Kaadal”, where love is the whole hearted reason to devote ones life and body for his/her lover, is nearly vansihing. What we have is the remains of a traditional marriage system, which is primarily based on the financial and social status of brides and grooms, fixed through the many matrimonial columns."

As explained here, majority (tho not all) of the so-called traditional arranged marriages in today's materialistic society exist only as a means of both the families (brides' & grooms') gaining sum financial or materialistic benefit from one another, rather than uniting 2 souls forever! :evil:
While most men in our society hav married (& still r marrying) only for the sake of dowry, today even girls & their parents hav become so unabashedly calculative when it comes to marriage! :evil: While looking for a groom 4 their dughter, the 1st thing tat they r interested is in the boy's salary/other assets! And if he's in the US/newhere abroad, they don't care to think twice! Surprisngly even the girl, in most cases, doesn't protest against her parents following such a system, hardly bothered herself abt the character/behaviour/habits of her wud-be/her future w/ him! :( :banghead:
And for a few others, this system of marriage is followed only as a sort of routine custom; the previous gens. had done it so they r doing the same......monkey-see-monkey-do!
Such commercially-minded 'elders' r another reason y marriage is losing its value in our society today & promiscuity outside marriage is gaining more popularity!
Btw, tat reminds me- if ppl. cud get so infuriated abt Kushboo 'indirectly' suggesting tat we accept tat pre-marital sex is very prevalent, how come none has, so far, raised protests against actresses like Mallika Sherawat, who supported her roles of playing adultrous wives in her films by declaring tat such films "shud be a lesson to husbands who ignore their wives"! :evil: She shud've been lynched for saying so, if our public cud so quickly corner Kushboo for her statement! :shock: [/tscii:8f0ae24278]

pavalamani pragasam

5th October 2005, 05:53 PM

Perhaps Tamil Nadu has not become fully thick-skinned as yet :lol:

sivajayan

5th October 2005, 08:19 PM

Deleted by Mod...

Sandeep

6th October 2005, 10:10 AM

Btw, tat reminds me- if ppl. cud get so infuriated abt Kushboo 'indirectly' suggesting tat we accept tat pre-marital sex is very prevalent, how come none has, so far, raised protests against actresses like Mallika Sherawat, who supported her roles of playing adultrous wives in her films

Perhaps because outside TN film personalities are not considered anything more than entertainers.

nirosha sen

7th October 2005, 08:39 PM

I have a real bone to pick with SunTV Tamil News, Pa!! As an oversea viewer, I was in a shock to see what incredible nerve and lack of total respect for rape victims, this channel has!! :evil:

I watched with horror not once, but twice to date, this dung Channel reporting rape attacks/molestation/kidnappings as the day's fare by offering close-ups of the victims!! Those poor women, were desperately trying to shield their faces to avoid the cameras!!

Just whom are they entertaining in this caper, of not sparing a single thought for these women???? And what laws does India have in preventing the media from exposing or identifying rape/molestation victims?????

Could someone please explain, if this is the norm on Indian TV channels????? :roll:

pavalamani pragasam

8th October 2005, 06:08 AM

News has come to mean sensanationalism :evil: The utter callousness of the MEDIA :twisted:

lordstanher

9th October 2005, 02:48 PM

Perhaps because outside TN film personalities are not considered anything more than entertainers.

Hmm........really?? :? I thot the whole nation (& even ppl. outside) practically worships Aish Rai....they (currently) consider her the symbol of the Indian woman! :lol2:
And btw, when i read ur reply, I rem'd having read in our paper a few years ago tat sumwhere in the north (can't rem. exact place, sorry!) they built a temple for Sunny Deol bcos of his 'extraordinary' performance in the film 'Gadar- ek prem katha'......! :shock:

aravindhan

9th October 2005, 11:54 PM

Perhaps because outside TN film personalities are not considered anything more than entertainers.
Oh, I don't think so. Let's not forget NT Rama Rao (Andhra) and Dr. Rajkumar (Karnataka), for starters.

pavalamani pragasam

11th October 2005, 01:37 PM

http://thinnai.com/pl1006052.html

More people to speak against the decadent MEDIA!

lordstanher

11th October 2005, 04:49 PM

http://thinnai.com/pl1006052.html

More people to speak against the decadent MEDIA!

Oops...handicapped by my incapacity to read Tamil again, PP ma'm! :)
Nevertheless, I'm sure watver is said there is worthwhile......
Speaking of Media, I just read the latest issue of Reader's Digest & came across a rather amusing 4-page "Advertising feature" in this issue describing w/ much pride as to how the Indian woman has come up in the 5 decades since Independence, breaking "the shackles of Indian tradition"......the article was broken up in between w/ a few page long ads of cosmetics/fashion wear.......clearly, it was nothing but a publicity stunt by manufacturers promoting the popularity of their glitz & glamour products, disguised as an eulogy to the present-day Indian women!
Its as if they r trying to say tat today's women r wat they r mainly bcos of opening up to these cosmetics/make-up & fashions! In other words, this is all tat they cud define as freedom & equality for women! :roll:
They don't care tat despite this 'liberation', otoh, the incidence of violence against women/lack of justice for the same & near-total degradation into sex symbols (mainly by today's films) has increased manifold! Wat an idea our media has abt women's rights today to so religiously publish such views! :roll: :twisted:

pavalamani pragasam

11th October 2005, 07:19 PM

I agree with you, lordstanher! The baring, daring woman is the bane of the world today! Petted by the MEDIA she lives in a fool's paradise of emancipation, an unrealistic situation of supposed ideas of freedom & independence. :shock: A real laughing stock she makes of herself in her attempts at bravado & adventure in untrodden lands of dishonour & danger.

lordstanher

11th October 2005, 08:29 PM

A real laughing stock she makes of herself in her attempts at bravado & adventure in untrodden lands of dishonour & danger.

On the contrary, she isn't a laugghing stock at the present, wat w/ such an overly sycophantic public of today, who appreciate her every attempt at "opening up", but yes, its my feeling tat the day isn't far away when she wud indeed be turned into a lonely laughing stock as the impact of her unwise actions/attitudes hit her (& those who eulogise the likes of her) bluntly at one time!
Believe it or not, even in the West, there r individuals today who've begun to hate the physical charm-based culture tat their revolution towards value-detached liscence has bound them into for the last 3-4 decades & r looking for a value-oriented essence of life, even as today's 'radicals' in our country r (secretively as well as openly) taking a cue from their lifestyles in challenging our social mores/views of life!

pavalamani pragasam

21st November 2005, 12:17 PM

[tscii:7665b64b0a]This promising, young star proves herself to be a class apart from the arrogant, reckless, idiotic, degenerate glitz people:
From today’s “Mumbai Mirror”:

Recently, tennis star Sania Mirza got embroiled in the controversy over pre-marital sex. Earlier this week, she said, “You don’t want me to tell you to have safe sex, whether it is before or after marriage. Everyone must know what he or she is doing.”

Some clerics made their way to the headlines by burning her effigy and garlanding her pictures with shoes.

Sania then issued a clarification on Friday. “I am deeply pained at the maligning of my image. I would like to clearly say on record that I could not possibly justify premarital sex as it is a very big sin in islam and one which I believe will not be forgiven by Allah,” she said.
[/tscii:7665b64b0a]

Sandeep

21st November 2005, 01:06 PM

[tscii:4dfc5ce1cc]This promising, young star proves herself to be a class apart from the arrogant, reckless, idiotic, degenerate glitz people:
From today’s “Mumbai Mirror”:

Recently, tennis star Sania Mirza got embroiled in the controversy over pre-marital sex. Earlier this week, she said, “You don’t want me to tell you to have safe sex, whether it is before or after marriage. Everyone must know what he or she is doing.”

Some clerics made their way to the headlines by burning her effigy and garlanding her pictures with shoes.

Sania then issued a clarification on Friday. “I am deeply pained at the maligning of my image. I would like to clearly say on record that I could not possibly justify premarital sex as it is a very big sin in islam and one which I believe will not be forgiven by Allah,” she said.
[/tscii:4dfc5ce1cc]

Three down One more to go. Good work ladies and gentlemen :(

jaiganes

21st November 2005, 09:06 PM

The public outcry against Sania Mirza and other celebrities who have spoken for safe sex to combat AIDS only goes on to show that our people do deserve to die of AIDS epidemic.
AIDS is a debilitating illness that has the potential to wipe out an entire generation and in particular the future generation. Many african countries are having such high numbers of AIDS patients in the population that they don't have anything to call a future. People irritated by the diplomatic incorrectness of the statements made by celebrities who take on the difficult job of discussing contoversial questions like Pre Marital Sex, are doing more harm by diverting the whole issue from the fundamental question of AIDS and victory over it.
Pre Marital or Post Marital, vast majority of this huge country are going to have sex at some point or the other, asking them to be just be careful is not only in their benefit, but in the greater good of all. That is what all those actors and other celebrities are doing now and we should be thanking them for that instead of humiliating them.
Looking at the hypocisy shown by our politicians and so called activists, I again say our nation deserves to meet its doom in the hands of AIDS.