Guyana Indians

[nirosha sen]

Oh Urme - surely the old Indian Diaspora is a whole lot bigger than a handful of Guyanese born Indians???!!! I'm sorry you got pissed off with some folks!! But why take it out on the rest too?????

Would you not consider staying on and participating???? I would dearly like to see your post more often. There are so many of us here from all corners of the world, but do choose to worship and celebrate our Indianness!! Who else could we share it with if not our own lot???!! Surely, there'll be the good, bad and ugly but isn't that part and parcel of life????

Please Stay!!!! :D

[Guyana]

nirosha sen,

>>surely the old Indian Diaspora is a whole lot bigger than a handful of Guyanese born Indians<<

If you mean in Canada, no, we Guyanese are more here in great numbers)than the Indians from India. You will find more Indians from India in the US.

The rest of what you said, will have to be carefully considered, although one set back is time.

[nirosha sen]

You know this is an interesting topic, for your thread!! The name is apt, Pa!! Instead of discussing abt you alone, which is what we have done so far, why not we discuss abt the Guyanese Indian people???? Most of us do not know much anyway. That way we could turn this into a kind of quilted Diaspora thread for far flung Indians. What do you say????? :)

[davie]

abused me too many many times. I was strong to stay here for as. -deleted- off..

lol. Guyana, its all how u make up your mind.
Basically all human beings are nice. That includes you and me. I can quote u many million dollar businesses that are based on just this characteristic of humans.
So, i am tryin to convince you that who ever you had abused u in the old hub are also nice guys. No one abuses you unless and until you start abusing them. Its like a snake bite. Unless and Until you scare a snake or do it some harm it is not gonna bite you.

If you are serious about discussing something nice we are willing to chat with you, considering you as a nice social animal ( Man is a social animal). If iam boring you too much i am really sorry. If u dont excuse me i dont care.


and I feel bad that I had to use bad language to get across to some people how I was feeling - a build up from over the years.


:lol:
If u are really good u will not use bad language to reciprocate your anger.
I have come across the worst language, but still i never used bad laguage to show my anger. Anyways its OK coz ur just a human.

[davie]

Indian gyanese born in canada are canadians with indian physical features. Its like a chinese born in USA is no longer a chinese but an american. I am just eager to know if you canadians follow the gyanese, sorry indian culture with interest?

[nirosha sen]

Yup, I think you have job here, Urme! Please enlighten us. I honestly would love to know more abt your part of the world, whether it's Guyanese Indians still in Guyana or those who've migrated to Canada.

Question from me : Why particularly Canada was chosen for your mass migration???? Why didn't Guyanese Indians settle anywhere else in droves as opposed to Canada??? :)

[Shekhar]

FH Admins,

Honestly I feel, a thread like this, or any thread on individuals should not find a place in FH. There is enough acrimony already on the hub.
Nirosha can open a new thread on migration of Indians to Canada.

[Guyana]

Nirosha,

Just to minimise my time here, all I can say to you, you already have the answer. Why do Indians go to the US in droves and why if you go to India you see up to this day and on a daily basis, they line up in front the embassy in droves to get a US Visa?

There are various post on this forum over the last two years to answer the rest of questions posted on Feb 27th. So I need not spend time repeating myself.

You shouldn't be expecting responses from me given what I said in the alst few days, I am just being "generous" here.

As per the other comments, people shoulod check themselves before checking others. It is so easy not to do when the threads and post of precise words and statements no longer exist on the forum.

[Guyana]

There are many Guyanese too in the US. Just that there are more here than there and you are more there than here. Just accept that. Otherwise, you can do your own research. All this should be information available publicly.

[Guyana]

>>If u are really good u will not use bad language to reciprocate your anger. <<

There are people here who have used bad language and never ever apologized for it. It must be the norm and people quickly forget about it. I haven’t seen any post to counter such behavior. There are others who “may” have been provoked once and used bad language.

It’s more about provocation by a certain groups for a long period on the same issue than bad language. They have also tried to cover it up at my expense and then more and more it came to light. Its like a woman being abused and provoked by her husband/partner for years and when she finally kills him, her conduct is brought under questioning and as murderer more so than the provocative acts she suffered over the years hence, seeing her as a bad person who deserves “further punishment”!

For those who are Christian would know the scriptures says to the effect “Any one who provokes the child of God to make him or her ridiculous, would have to answer”.

[Guyana]

>> by a certain group; Christians

[saji]

Nirosha,

You are wasting your time on Ms Guyana here. Cant understand what she is on about. She needs to cool down with an icepack. Why would she need one anyway, with the snow in canada? And by now, it doesnt look like anyone here is interested in what she wants to say. Man, isnt she a confused soul.

:banghead:

[Guyana]

Who is confuse? Tell me what is the big issue in being born in india to be India?

One Punahai told me over a yar ago to go to Guyana people -inferring that I don't belong here not being born in India. When I confronted her, she dodged the issue and opended other threads etc. to cover her self. Wheh she realised so many Guyanese Indians are here and she could be hinted and confronted - given that she advertised her work address on forum, she left the forum. Some others came along from the same angle (in threads like Fiji) of argument using derogatory words to disucss Carribean Indians - off springs of Indian parents from India (to make it clear). The this very "Davie" in the British impact thread stated "Guyanese people stink". After the long haul and the dodges, now she comes here to say that you must be born in India to be Indian.

[Guyana]

Not because someone is not born where their ancestors originated, they are "stink". But FTRSS brought out the reason for that when I was referred to an an offspring of a slave. This is what makes us stink. I gave many examples where born Indians can equally be regarded as stink and even more stink. With the help of the admins (removing suc posts of these brats), these brats came back to challenge me - feel "qualified" too, to question my behaviour.

[Guyana]

O I forgot, one UKW's statement about Island people and Indianness. One person in the white women thread responded some time back to Punahai and UKW - where they were asked to go and study the culture of Guyanese Indians - that who needs the wacking, 5th generation Guyanese Indians or 1st generation from India to the west?

We praise ourselves for being far off and yet did better than our Indian counterparts.

FYKI, for some months now, I have been residing with an Indian family (know this will be shocking) due to problems of distance etc. I am praised all the time for the way we Guyanese Indians have kept culture and these people see no difference in us (Guyanese Indians and Indians from India, other than some Hindi language barrier).

It was these people who said to me that we have truly preserved Hinduism - we have retained the real flavor while in India it has become commercialized and its practiced in a hodge potch fashion.

I knew what the point of thes epeopel were form the outset and I knew I would caught them red-handed some day and I did.

May be I should let these people see what I put up with on this forum.

Now you tell us here what is “Indianess”/how more Indian you are in light of lost practices of Hinduism, language differences etc. in India which seems to be the basis of regular fights in India.

[Guyana]

I don't care what any of you have to say, I know the truth and nothing will change what I know.

The longer I stay here the more chance to give you people to call me confused etc. in turning the blame on me. Then new Fhers come and get bogged down not knowing what went on before. I don't care what anyone here has to say any more and it would help if someone ask you people to stop posting about me - you will do me so much good.

[Guyana]

>>by now, it doesnt look like anyone here is interested in what she wants to say<<

There are caught up with time, so they have to back off. There are too many witnesses here ove ra long period. They can't win and I did not give up, ignoring them should not make them feel winners either.

[Roshan]

Nirosha,

I think you yourself need an agony aunt now !! :lol: :lol:

[Shekhar]

Nirosha,

When you said "Please stay", I was horrified at your gullibility, and was laughing my guts out...After all, You are a fine woman... :lol: (WOMAN!!) :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Guyana]

Look at these prats. Its OK for you people to trhow stones, and when you get them back you are hihgly annoyed. When the stones were thrown at me, many of you denied they were, though you live on this forum. Many of you also did not try to put a stop to it. You enjoyed it. Because all of you are the same herring from the same barrel.

I always knew what the thoughts were (many of shared the same views that I should go, I do not belong here, only that many of you did not had the guts to say it), but I ignored them to get my points across.

Boy you SouthIndians, from man to woman, are so rough, roudy and tantalizing indeed. I undersstand while in UK, even Southies (perhaps the civilized ones) run away to the North to find peace. This is why too the Guyanese Indians are much admired.

[Guyana]

The more I mixed with you lot (you know which lot) the more difficult it is to show the other side of me. Just bear that in mind. Then you get the wrong impression.

[scorpio]

Boy you SouthIndians, from man to woman, are so rough, roudy and tantalizing indeed. I undersstand while in UK, even Southies (perhaps the civilized ones) run away to the North to find peace. This is why too the Guyanese Indians are much admired.

Oh Guyana!

Tell me how many south Indians do you know and what do u know about them?? If you don't like to participate in the forum, so be it and I think pretty much everyone here bade you good bye. Pl. refrain from making such statements which qualifies to be put in the 'jokes' thread for a hearty laugh at an empty person!

[Guyana]

throw; highly; mix

I know in other posts there are many typos. Poor me jugling a heavy schedule to meet demands of people here, that I can't do it all perfect.

Nirosha got that if she got anything at all from me that is harsh, due to the behaviour of past hubbers. I know they liked her questions i.e perhaps had a different interpretation to them and I preferred to deal with that side of it.

[Guyana]

The Gayatri Mantra needed here:

Aum Bhuh Bhuvah Svah
Tat Savitur Varenyam
Bhargo Devasya Dheemahi
Dhiyo Yo nah Prachodayat

-------
Transcribed in English:

" O Divine mother, our hearts are filled with darkness. Please make this darkness distant from us and promote illumination within us".

---------

Another interpretation:

"O thou existence Absolute, Creator of the three dimensions, we contemplate upon thy divine light. May he stimulate our minds and bestow upon us true knowledge."

[Sandeep]

Thanks Guyana. It was nice knowing you.

I didnt know anything about Guyana Indians, you helped me make an impression.

Since you are leaving Bye and best of luck in retaining your "Indianness" !!!

[Sandeep]

Sorry if I am sounding rude. Its just because I am a South Indian.

[Guyana]

Scorpio,

I did not say all SouthIndians, but certainly I heard that comment from South indians thmselves and I also read that on this forum. Please rea carefully. Its OK if everyone bid me good bye. Do you think I am hurt about something now that I knew for a significant length of time?

Even the whites in Canada knows that many of you do not like us and may I repeat, the Brits know that too and took advantage of it on this very forum. So I had the double edged sword used on me here for sometime. There is no point hiding and I really don't care. It only affected me here - on this forum. I hope one day you would see my other threads - posts under Ormila/Urmila and then analyse the whole thing.

[scorpio]

Guyana,

If u r hurt and don't wish to continue, we all perfectly understand.

GOOD BYE!!

[Guyana]

Sorry, I did not read anything about Sotuh Indians here of that sort on forum, its about Tamils and its Tamils that I had a rough time here with. Star clearly distingusihed between Tamils and South Indians.

I really would not have dealt with the problem as I did if not for what the Brist were doing here, coming under Indian and Tamils names because they know how you people feel about us, to harass me etc. when also I had to change Ip, user name etc. so often.

Any way I am sure by now people here got the drifts and I no longer wish to dwell on "Tamil" or "Indian" dislikeness for what they call "Carribean" or "Island people" and I hope from all this, "Carribean" and "Island people" can get some peace more so because, they have to mix in the new world.

[Sandeep]

Guyana,

We dont know why people in US or Canada (Indians, Tamilians or whatever) hate guyanees Indians. Most of the people here know only one Guyanees Indian and thats you. So when you are really free and have nothing else to do (like me) then why dont you come over here and share thoughts.

[Cinefan]

Guyana,
GOOD BYE

[Guyana]

Sandeep,

I would not use the word "hate". I am more inclined to say "prejudice" and alot of it has to do with History and hence preconceived ideas, putting up an automatic barrier. What happened 200 years ago (assuming there was nothing good) and after that, are two different things.

It seems that in US, the Guyanese community is more spread out, not so tight as in Canada.

I think time will take care of the rest.

[Sandeep]

What to do with history.

We Indians (in India) prejudice against each other as south indian-north indian, tamilian-kannadiga, bihari-bengali, hindu-muslim. While we have the same history for such a long time.

Its just human nature. We want our compounds protected with walls.

[Guyana]

Therefore, we must opt to be "Amar", get away from the cycle of births and deaths :-))))))

Have a nice day Sandeep and so will I.

Cheerio.

[Guyana]

Guyana.org Guyana News and Information Discussion Forums Community Announcements Anyone know what part of India the indians of Guyana came from?:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
They came from north india mainly but many of the early indentured were from the Madras region.

------------

I thought Davie and FTRSS would find this interesting when they said respectively, "You people stink" and "who the hell is urme, she is the offspring of a slave. Why don't she go and write to every slave child".

Mind you, Tamils as I understand were also slaves in India and Sri Lanka after migration of other Tamils.

______

I now post on the Guyanafriends discussion forum and I hope there will be no malicious acts done to me there by people I had trouble with in the past and the British who were disguising themselves on this hub. Just accept my decency to inform you as to where I went :-)

[Querida]

Guyana this truly is the longest goodbye i have seen....even longer than Jean Chretien when he kept hogging the PM post instead of stepping down gracefully....really now we have heard enough of these ignorant cana-desis who seem to be out to get you...i can also complain about some Guyanese i know who dont even respect Indians themselves and rather resort to just as much name-calling and ridiculing as the other faction....(as seen when you got a little peeved) but in the land of many races i dont think what is on every desi's mind is to pick on the Guyanese...if you feel hurt leave already stop trying to make insinuations love your culture dont preach it, stop caring what idiots say, and foremost quit being so insecure...there are many of us who actually LIKE and interact well with Guyanese people...so really there is no need to push the issue further...and don't worry we all know where to go if we would like to visit you... :roll: :roll:

though if you really do like this hub how about posting in other threads than just this one? :? :D

[Guyana]

You are missing the point whether deliberate or not I am least interested at this stage. I have been on numerous threads on this forum over the last two years, but as of late got stuck here with no intention to go on others here. The goodbye has obviously been delayed with alot of tidying up to do and have to do them as them come. Long transition I should say.

Now that I am committed elsewhere in this sense, you can be assured of my absence here. I am already getting responses.

We should all accept that yes, there has been a two way street criticism, but I did not expect the one way on this forum to which I reacted.

Any way, it was nice meeting the good, bad and ugly which we find in every palce. I have learnt alot. No hard feelings.

[Guyana]

[tscii:f9c4d24442]
Happy 39th Independence day to all Guyanese Indians.

As I was sending out live greetings to my few relatives in Guyana at yesterday’s celebrations at L'Amoreaux Community Centre (where thousands of Guyanese gathered amongst, the Guyana Consulate to Toronto and Guyana Minister of Agriculture and other dignities to mark the occasion), I added to my greetings " I would like to think that we are independent". In years to come this crowd and even larger ones would know what I mean. The tactics (as you would see here in addition to contradicting its own "majority rule" where Guyanese Indians have always been the majority, but manipulated to meet British interest of wanting continuous control) of the British in preventing Independence, Freedom and Justice hasn't changed from its historic past:

http://www.guyana.org/features/guyanastory/chapter160.html

The National Anthem of Guyana:

Dear land of Guyana, of rivers and plains;
Made rich by the sunshine, and lush by the rains,
Set gem like and fair, between mountains and sea,
Your children salute you, dear land of the free.

Green land of Guyana, our heroes of yore,
Both bondsmen and free, laid their bones on your shore.

This soil so they hallowed, and from them are we,
All sons of one Mother, Guyana the free.

Great land of Guyana, diverse though our strains,
We are born of their sacrifice, heirs of their pains,

And ours is the glory their eyes did not see,
One land of six peoples, united and free.

Dear land of Guyana, to you will we give,
Our homage, our service, each day that we live;
God guard you, great Mother, and make us to be
More worthy our heritage, land of the free.


The instrumental of this anthem:

http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/8106/Anthems/guyana.htm

http://www.abacci.com/atlas/anthem3.asp?countryID=215[/tscii:f9c4d24442]

[Shekhar]

Querida,

Hats off to your optimism!!! :) :)

[Guyana]

This is all that you can do. But I haven't finished with you. Don't be too quick. I still think of that Chrono and will still prove my points.

It is also to educate some people who think we can't be scientist and engineers (remember the "Being Indian" thread) in knowing that not only did we had went to Guyana under different terms, conditions and expectations and had to build everything from scratch, but that we are a young nation in freedom if we were ever free. Got it?

Indo-Guyanese know who they are and what they have achieved in a short time and they are proud people.

PS: I was right to spend some time thinking (whether I should make this post yesterday, as to what it could mean or bring, complete my oustanding post or just leave everything since I have made choices in getting more involved with my own community), the reason why I was late in sending out greetings here.

[chaotic whisperz]

i didnt read this entire thread cause i really dont want or care to, but i wanted to throw in my 2 cents..........................

i agree that "desi" ppl dont see guyanese and trinidad indians as the same as them, both groups think there are great differences between the 2, but there are really not........ maybe only language...................... but i dont see them going around hating on them.............................................. ...................... then again, i am speaking on the younger generation where you dont often see that kind of discrimination............. the only time that sort of discrimination arises is in relationships between individuals from those 2 different backgrounds.......... and this discrimination comes from the parents..................


i dont know if what i wrote makes any sense, but i dont feel like going back and re-reading it cause i dont feel like it................................................ ........................


bottom line: we all brown........................

[Guyana]

chaotic whisperz,

You are right to some extent. The discrimination comes from the older folks and those who never left India or are new migrants elsewhere from India, hold onto to it in some respects.

My mother told me of a recent case in Guyana. A young medical Doctor from India went to Guyana for his training or was working there as a resident doctor. He got married to this absolutely beautiful Guyanese girl. The parents back in India bugged him to bring his wife and come for a holiday. When they went, the girl was mistreated by the parents and put on a flight alone back to Guyana. They found another girl for the doctor.

Then another doctor, but Indian Guyanese. married the same girl. Apparently she was working in the same hospital (Prashad) and the other doctor knew her former husband too and of the story.

What a story!

[Guyana]

I shall tell you the story of my own aunt in Portland Oregon. She met an Indian doctor working in the same hospital there. They liked each other and he asked her to go to India to meet his parents. She went and they treated her nicely. When it was time for their return, the doctor was kidnapped at the airport and she came back alone. This was back in the 1980's. She was so devastated. She did not go back to Guyana since she left in the 1970s, but took a trip then. She is now married to one man from Sri Lanka.

When the same aunt visited Toronto last year, she came to know I was friendly with an Indian man from Bombay residing down the street where my parents live. She warned me about serious relationships with a man from India. I had this warning from a woman (in our area back in Guyana residing in Toronto) soon after my arrival to Canada as a young teenager. She too must have had bad experiences. What can I say.

[chaotic whisperz]

i know a number of ppl and stories that have more or less the same outcome............... i dont understand why ppl are so discriminative............................. i would say the values and customs are quite similar, if not identical..........................

[Guyana]

I am glad that someone else can confirm these things. Now it is a bit more clear as to what has been going on, on this forum in a group effort in supporting one another, resorting to personal attacks and a high level of sarcasm. The forum has been a good "niche" for that and when I fought against it, they were again trying to defend themselves in groups while trying to appear innocent about it. By weekend it will be a bit more clear.

[Querida]

you know if you could maybe make your topic more hubber friendly like confront all prejudice or all issues with mixed race couples that would be better...to reach people than just make people exasperated ie me at your over the top martyrish attitude...i think we each could share such experiences/issues if you weren't so keen to insinuate and hallucinate about hubbers' opinions based on your encounters solely

[nirosha sen]

I'll second Querida on this, Urme!! Like I made it clear long back, you are not alone here, just because you can't stand a few folks. So, just hang them and carry on hubbing like me!

Can't stand em, lose em!! But don't stop writing on issues larger than yourself! That way you'll get more sympathisers and empathisers like me!! :wink:

[blahblah]

Most entertaining!And Guyana is supposed to be a nation?????????????? :shock:

What happened to that GOPIO supreme court which was supposed to prosecute the whole Forumhub?I have already arranged my
lawyers and have ended up spending a lot of money on that. :x

Trust me,I believe in locking up a looney rather than talking sense with him/HER! :twisted:

And I have seen somany people saying Good Bye too! :D [Though there is no one to hear! :?

[Querida]

well i echo your sentiments but atleast give a person a chance to stop digging their own hole...after all they just might end up in a a certain wabbit hole... :lol: :P

[hehehewalrus]

Blahblah means what he says about locking up loonies. best example is His Highness Mandakkai :D

[chaotic whisperz]

what the hell are the rest of you carrying on about?????????????

[Guyana]

Chaotic Whisperz and Nirosha, thanks for your support. I did not log here for days for many reasons, but expected the kind of post that followed and I expected that last supportive statement from Chaotic Whisperz. Good job. I am trying to keep up with my promise, should complete that long post now seven pages(would make it shorter)by tonight. I am so busy, but trying as I said earlier, I am not finished with some people, yet I see statements about locking up..It has to be sent elsewhere so its taking time.

It is pointless to repond to those individual post and any that follow based on... which I am addressing in my main post/document.

[Vini Vidi Vici]

I did not log here for days
I thought that the hub lost the last mohican, pardon me the last guyanese. :lol:

[Guyana]

[tscii]Here I am. Thanks for your patients.

Matter in Court

The set of statements of attack over a period of time as I said earlier elsewhere, has been an "infringement" and a violation to the Human Rights Code with respect to equality and privacy/confidentiality under which GOPIO falls. The dysfunctional behaviors to cover up such infringements have continued, as always been the case. If GOPIO runs those "test of equality and privacy" it will be able to confirm in addition to the fact others have similar stories, that such infringements occurred, with the hope that certain standards will be set with a permanent base. These attacks go back to facts I have already stated on this forum (some of which has been removed) which I find necessary to repeat here for others to understand and appreciate the present position.

1. In early 2003 one Punnahai, an older Tamil woman from India residing in Toronto Canada aka :) on this forum was OK (since I have an Indian name which I was using) until she came to know (about three months later or so) that I am from Guyana. That was until one hubber, Skanthavelu, a white guy residing in Edmonton, Canada) disclosed to Punnahai, an older Tamil woman from India, in an email that I am from Guyana. I warned Skanthavelu (who admitted on forum what I said to him and why I said that) that this should not be disclosed to any of the hubbers cause we know how the people from India would react; exactly how Punnahai reacted when she found out I am from Guyana. Ever since that day these are some of problems encountered:

a) Punnahai started with diplomacy in putting forward her reasons why she thinks us Indo-Guyanese, are not Indians. Those reasons ran from being in the wrong community to lost language. She was not aware of what I knew from the outset, the very reason I found it necessary to request that Skanthavelu not to disclose certain information, so it was so easy for Punnahai to carry out discriminative and prejudicial acts without me noticing them.
b) Then in her caste thread (Casteism, a bane to India) in which I tried to show that the problems facing Indo-Guyanese are based on caste, Punnahai was highly annoyed. She went to the Tamil “Ugam..” thread in the missc. Section to discuss how I was putting on a dog show and went on to say how many people from South India don’t get the crown because of discrimination. She insinuated that I was taking away her crown just because of my strong points evident to the objective people here, had great significance and shows the narrowness of Punnahai’s framework and her attempts to kept it so.
c) When the basis for what Punnahai as doing to be was becoming apparent, she suddenly opened a thread on “Guyana Indentured Labour” in the missc. section (still there). For other Tamils, this thread was suppose to be taken in the abstract, not how it evolved i.e. the reasons behind its opening. I disagreed (refer to the posts in that thread).
d) Problems I had to deal with that were popping up elsewhere on this forum, where agents of LU (Britain) were trying to undermine me, were manipulated to harass and upset me. Those of you who have been here would know what I am talking about) to discredit me in justifying their actions, I found it necessary to make it a point of what my dean at Sussex University had said to me in an email, which I posted i.e. about my intellectual ability. Punnahai was not happy about this:
i) she Punnahai, made a statement somewhere to the effect “.. you are the only intelligent person here”. I also then made reference to how some people who claimed to be holding PhDs, wanted me to take the thread on “Guyana Indentured labour” and ignore crucial facts which reveals the basis for the opening of the thread and I was right then to say in light of this and what was said to me, that professional qualifications are not the same as other qualifications including PhDs which affects how you think. Not only was it obvious that some of these people were making efforts to show off their qualification and I had to analyze it to know why and I sympathize with them. They also saw when Star, another hubber wrote that I always have first class arguments. That too did not go down well. “BAB”, another hubber saw this and commented about the average Hindu, Punnahai who was condemning us as Indians.
ii) To reinforce her animated feeling against me, she called me “dunce” in another thread, made the choice of abusive language (see the thread I had opened on how Guyanese Indians are treated by the British and their Indian counterparts).

e) Funny enough, the same Punnahai who was condemning us of not being Indians for her reasons, were promoting “double standard” on cultural grounds elsewhere just because the person is a Tamil residing in South Africa. The same point across in the same “Ugam” thread by another Tamil hubber (UKW) as you would see later when he made special emphasis on Island people – the people who left India 200 years ago and again in the Fiji return to Indian thread, attacking Indo Caribbean people of not having any brains. These activities have been perpetrated to date, which I am coming at.

2. The hubber most recently known as “UKW” made mention of above, is also known as Ramadass Manatill who is from Chennai Madras.
a) The culture thing was manipulated by this hubber to show innocence after the fact. That was after in August 2003, he got upset when I did not accept his invitation to Zurich, Switzerland after what I had in mind, his own circumstances and the delays in Britain from where I was supposed to travel to meet him.
b) In addition, he may have had according to some of his post, emails from my email account, sent to him by agents of LU pretending to be me. The information apparently relates to an edited video held by LU and other distorted information LU was intending on using at that time and attempts may have been made, as the case was on the Indian-marriage website, to destroy my character at the same time, in creating evidence.
c) But all that time Ramadass also did not know that I am from Guyana (I did not volunteer that information knowing what it could bring as in the case of Punnahai). I had sent him some photo being honest, the most recent was not my best since it was the time all the damages were showing, but I sent him others to show what the real me is. Once Ramadass came to know that I am from Guyana (where he had also expressed upsets on forum of me taking long to say so, though he never asked but assumed India or Sri Lanka) not and with the hatred of me not going to Zurich, which he waited for, misused the pictures and information by:
a) trying to convince fellow hubbers that he could not be interested by saying he doubt whether I have any culture left, living with whites and blacks referring to Island people, had to explain Guyana is not an Island etc., but he used my pictures in some western dressing to convince hubbers by passing it around behind the scene that I have lost culture and he could not possibly be interested in me.
b) Another negative approach was to take the ones in which I looked my worse – showing the impact of the “degrading condition” in Britain, and send it off to other hubbers, claiming that I am “Ugly” (that is what I looked like at that time and given my honestly towards someone I never met when I the story in the emails to him with the attachments, like I did in a thread on the forum.
c) In the same Ugam thread, he made various attacks followed in code.

3. The other and most recent problem with a hubber, relating to the above is that with Shaekar. He took up the rages of Punnahai and declared in one of the thread leading to “Guyana Indians” that Punnahai is innocent and the pictures sent to him by “”Ramadass” were misused:
a) It is from those pictures he made statements like “I want to curry ladies fingers”, but made no acknowledgment of that source of information.
b) From confidential information, used words like “wholesome” when he was writing for Ramsaran at GOPIO in the “imaginary” thread.

4. Then the agents of LU (under Indian and Tamil names and then came as Korean for other reasons) in Britain who knew of such problems since 1996 (see email) from outset, started taking advantage on the forum, inspired by posting of Punnahai and UKW in justifying their actions, the very reason I was brought by them to this forum. What they did are as follows:
a) There were threads opened to confirm that the people who went from India to various places under the British, were of low caste, that people form South India came from Africa, so discrimination against people with South origin in treating an African more favorably, is not possible and that Guyanese Indians have lost the Indian Culture. Some of these threads were removed, but others like Sudroid, networking with fhers, one by Shrya about Guyanese Indian females, are still there.

NB. What Shrya had to say – that all the culture Indian Guyanese females have left, is how to tie a saree and tried to bring down their character. This was very satisfying to the “myth” of Indians from India, known to the Brits before coming on forum in late 2002. (something similar occurred when I was on the Indian-marriages website in 2003 while in Canada, so they were doing it from here by getting into my emails). My responses can be traced since such threads are still up.


5. Davie, another Tamil from India in British Impact thread, stated that Indo-Guyanese have a culture like Hispanics and “You people stink”…and something like we take advantage of the blacks there in Guyana. A article found later written by Nagamootto in Guyana shows how Tamils tend to gang up with Africans against North Indians and as you know, most Guyanese are from North Indian ancestry.
6. Bad Boy, another Tamil from Sri Lanka residing in Germany, wrote in the “Pakistani friends” thread, referred to us as slaves and his hate for them in particular Guyanese and for that reason say people like us should not be on the Indian forum when he also made a series of personal attacks, recently in the “being Indian” thread before he was banned.
7. On the same grounds (outlined above) of Punnahai and UKW, Shaekar attacked me in various thread including the “Guyana Indians; joke section; "diamond ring" and "Imaginary and real skeleton". When I countered these attacks, which shows that these people have more to worry and be embarrassed about, which tips the scale, it often result to the threads being removed. Further:
a) This Shaekar, is a Christian like Punnahai and made the statement that I have been accusing innocent people, referring to Punnahai.
b) My contributions as a Hindu on forum, was a big problem to most of these Tamils and Christian that they long wanted me off.
c) Shaekar’s post in the joke thread (where he said he laughed so much when Nirosha asked me to stay on forum when he was trying to sabotage the thread) was deleted by the admins, and so were some of his sarcastic remarks (a regular approach which he is good at), in the “Guyana Indians” thread and the one (which was removed, but lead to the opening of the “Guyana Indians” thread, by the admins.
d) Having read that sort of post from Shaekar in the joke section and elsewhere relating to me, I found a subsequent post from him in the thread “the best hubber of all times”, to be unacceptable when he stated that one of the grounds for evaluating the best hubber is on “elevated thoughts”. This is not the behavior you expect from someone with such thoughts and I later again, proved myself right.
e) The said Shaekar made personal attacks against me just because he was unable to take my comments about elevated thoughts. Other similar attacks were made by him in another,
thread, i.e. the ‘diamond ring’, using phrases like, “I want to curry ladies fingers”; “padded brain cells”). These were further based on exchanges of pictures and information behind the scene involving Ramadass (see above and refer to emails), meanwhile there was no acknowledgment of it.

NB.1. Then he said my comments were not accepted as the reasons for his attacks in the diamond ring thread - curry ladies fingers – can any reasonable person justify this? What does t say about such individual?

NB.2 Attacks continued in the imaginary and real skeleton thread opened by the moderators and my counter attacks resulted to the thread being taken off.
f) Further attacks came from Shaekar in the being Indian thread, saying that we from Guyana and such places, can’t be or are unable to be scientist and engineers, second by “NM “ another hubber who edited his post to cover it up after my response just before his.
NM added the poor people bit.
g) His hubber apologies to Ramsarran and made some comments, which could only be taken as sarcasm and not genuine apologies. Not only his history of being that way, but in one of the threads, he wrote that he did not want to be “mislead”, then in another thread some one wrote “Photos are not real, something like it just gives …Then after Shaekar disappeared from forum saying in “hubber’s event” thread that he will be off for a month, a new user in the “diamond ring” thread came and posted to me, “I came to know you are ugly”.

8. Another hubber, Scorpio, some white guy working in Madras Chennai, threw in his two cents (God knows what he was hoping to achieve by doing this being in Madras then), took liberty in stating that “It seems that thing about ladies fingers written by shaekar is correct”; compared my beauty with others. He also declared that I had no right to put a picture for competition with someone who asked me to stay on forum and I responded, showing that I am a senior hubber to the person who asked me to stay. He was going on as if he knew my purpose of my photo in my avatar, in interpreting my intentions, which he had no right in doing to start with, all in support the group attacks.
9. Roshan a Muslim Tamil woman from Sri Lanka, followed the same approach of attack as Shaekar. She was sure and no other interpretation than he was “sound” in what he said and gave credibility to him. Then she stated to the effect that I know the “ultimate truth” and that is the reason for my response to Shaekar. While she gave credibility to shaekar, she too failed to acknowledge the source. Then she went to comment on my response to Scorpio about the “curry ladies finger” in the attempt to show that Scorpio is innocent just because he did not mention my name. Roshan is patiently waiting to see how this report would go – if there is any loophole in denying the truth (see end).
10. Followed from that was a post from “Querida”, later manipulated by Roshan to further attack me. If I wasn’t sure about where Querida was coming, I sure was when she posted in that imaginary thread, which GOPIO would have seen.
11.Then a new hubber, Jagnes in the “current affairs” thread made statements in a post soon after Shekhar’s post about “beautiful and smart”, and then after he knew I complained to GOPIO said he was “betrayed”.
12. May I point out that these men and women who were abusive towards me when they also used derogatory words, are Tamils or South Indians on the whole, many of whom are non-Hindus and who from being on this forum, knows that Guyanese are mainly North Indians.

---------

Although Punnahai pretended to be innocent in what she as posting, on language etc., we know from other sources, the basis of such statements. I may have stolen credits from Punnahai in disabling her from attaining her full credits of recognition in not fully including the boundaries of the caste problem. She was also not happy about what my dean said about my intellect since it disproves theories are disproved and with support by people like the dean of law at Sussex University and I would say even Leeds University, leave out Canada which has made similar comments in references including recently that I am a distinguished student and for that matter all my life from childhood.
As for Ramadass, though his problem was based on disappointments, he relied on the “myths” about us being people of “lost culture” since he knew would be easily acceptable in defending himself against the truth.
The British got what they were expecting as far as there was no source to disprove what they were trying to promote in relying on the “myths” of people from India they knew from the outset (before coming to this hub). Ever since I have made several attempts to prove otherwise, the recent of which is that in the “being Indian” thread. According to statements made by the secretary to GOPIO as Guyanese, Ashook Ramsaran, we so far away from India, have managed to preserve the India Culture to a great extent and any one who come to know Guyanese Indians would say the same, especially when we compare the culture in India today. Ashook went on to talk about how the Indo-Guyanese has risen in all facets of life. Interestingly, we were able to do so, without having to change our religion for whatever reason.

I could not be possibly criticizing them for being of a different religion or changing their religion, because some way along he line one of my ancestors may have left India to face the unknown, due to what they were experiencing in the same culture. What Shaekar, Scorpio and Roshan were doing recently, directly related to the disclosures of Ramadass and I am sure other Tamil hubbers were involved behind the scene in this although they did not come forward to make attacks. Even Christ would not react this way to me. The admins can always check their PMs and find those exchanges, although it is believed that this was going on since in the old hub time.

A common approach amongst these attackers is evident based on the fact that they are either, Christian, Muslims or Tamils or mainly South Indians. This indicate that this could be the basis and Hinduism is the “Indian psychiatric history” of which I am a great daughter of according to Shaekar, although as we can see, he stands for other parts of Indian psychiatric history such as Indians alone in India are capable of being scientist and engineers. No doubt too, given the duration in which I was writing on this forum including a great deal on Hinduism, which displays my knowledge, has been another ground of annoyance to these set of individuals. It is the very religion of Hinduism that he or his forefathers may have been born if not raised in also, and raised in that allowed. Its like the snake on the frog’s back crossing the river to the other-side, and the snake promised not to bite, yet when the snake got to the other side, bit the frog and said “Its in my nature”.

The attacks that came from Skaekar crowned by “NM”, about scientist and engineers, can’t make them innocent when there were exiting statements in a “Fiji return to India” thread, where it was mentioned that us from the Caribbean including Guyana, have no brains, the reason why we are low. I fought that battle a long time in that said thread (Please go to it). Shaekar personal attack has nothing to do with the “subject matter” in discussion from which other attacks followed and I don’t know what Guyana will do with all of us being “scientist and engineers”, a country that had to be innovative for its survival under such conditions to get where we are from there to this day.

It is clear that the most recent problems are linked to activities behind the scene, the very reason why Shaekar found it necessary to speak on behalf of all hubbers involved. Where Jagnes said he was betrayed/mislead, is evidence in-itself. Then he referred to Guyana as small Guyana’s beauty as if that was ever a subject of discussion or that I initiated it. His apologies To Ramsarran at GOPIO should not be taken seriously since that too is filled with sarcasm, an attitude that seems dominant in the culture since it was also evident amongst other hubbers from India.

It is a terrible state of affairs. Look at the attitude towards me as a person trying to fix the problem. Something has been rubbing the wrong way and these people have gotten personal rather than staying with the problem and this can be seen up to recently (in the “Guyana Indians” thread). They perform a function as I see it, every time an attack comes. Look at the “infringement” when I have been violated, then I have to deal with self, the individual then the issues, which often resulted to personal post which were in turn attacked. Thus, they are turning away from the problem I am trying to alleviate while trying to attack me, allowing for a limited view when they drive those comments at me, which also shows that they don’t know limits or boundaries in conforming to a certain standard. The recent evidence is that of issue like “mix marriages” and me referring to Guyanese as a nation (whether past or present) where it was held that such people can’t be part of GOPIO as a reason for committing a crime (in my attempt to help them identify the grounds, where or not it exist is another matter) to warrant lock ups. Mix marriage is about other races and has nothing to do with people of Indian origin. If we are to speak of crimes then we should be speaking of our guides such as the Guyana Consulate (Danny Doobay who is getting a copy of this post). There is no conflict of interest or crime committed, just another way of escape. I am a born Guyanese and nothing will change that and that national anthem of Canada is first and that of Guyana is second and perhaps that of India is third. For some of us, if our ancestors did not leave India, we would not be existing today, it does not mean that one is or should be abandoned for the other.

There are certain points you don’t go over no matter what, but these people who have been imposing inferiority on us people, think they can. It is obvious what drives that behavior and in a group effort where the attempt has been to divert or evade the issue, which has delayed me, which further shows that the objective is to annoy and get rid of me from the forum, which has been a good “niche” for such activities. And thought these people claimed to be educated where education develops our faculties and the civility in how we relate to one another, it did not change their attitudes. It didn’t stop them from discriminating and being prejudicial openly, from being abusive, relying on stereo-types or even left room for the unknown i.e. their ignorance of us, but to focus on the negatives if there are any and purposely failing at all times, to focus on the positives. Many people who are not scientist or engineers have attained this level of development. This is where the problem lies. There is a positive correlation in the relationship between the attacks/approaches in a set of statements of the different individuals over a period of time and a set of dysfunctional behavior to cover up “infringements”. This further correlates positively with Guyanese Indian females been sent away from India (see recent post in Guyana Indians” thread).

The sand thrown over by some beyond is nothing but an example of an attitude is being suppressed and there has been failures to go through it. This is an "infringement" and a violation to the Human Rights Code with respect to equality and privacy/confidentiality. If GOPI to run those "test of equality and privacy" under the Human Rights Code under which it falls, it will be able to confirm that such infringements occurred, in setting certain standards.

These are the same people fighting for equality is trying to deny us the same which is all politics. Inequality is “imbued” and perpetrated by the Indians in and from India, even those who claim to be victims of such inequality and declare its invalidity. Going behind the sceen itself without acknowledging it, is an encroachment. Even my intellect was challenge with no basis by misusing information (see details in email) to fulfill the myth.
These attacks violate the constitution and Human Rights Code. It is the same Human Rights Code that Ghandiji grounded to deal with inequality that is being played back here for which there are many case laws. This shows that the statements and infringements have met the test in the Code to prove violations, breach of confidentiality and freedom of speech, privacy and equality rights “Ignorance of the Law is no excuse”.

This is the behavior of people when they have to acquiesce or move away from the “myths” that suits their interest, while they enjoyed people like Shrya who were promoting such “myths”. So when we speak of human rights violations, we need to look first in our own homes. These are the people who caused it to begin with and these are the people Britain looks to in justifying its actions, the reason why I found myself on this forum.

Though I have spent a few years here due to the problems above, I have had minimal pleasant times here. For most of the time, I felt
I am at a “fish market”. This is not fair given what I had just underwent in Britain and was still going through while there is so much to enjoy in the Indo-Guyanese Community here in Toronto (more like one big family, the giving, sharing and caring people, focusing on the positives over the negatives that brought them a far way, not even the dream of India), I left behind for many years, being detained in Britain for unjustifiable reasons known these hubbers. Guyanese Indians are people of great conduct, highly dignified and well-mannered, giving and sharing people. You don’t hear complaints against us. We don’t look upon our religion as a cleanser after our bad conducts against people. I am also proud to say that we over came that ingrained suppressed attitude and has long moved in a positive direction. I didn’t need to go through this here. I was caused me a good bit of grief here for last two years when that time could have been spent otherwise.

It is for such reasons, I am concern about links between Indo-Caribbean and Indo-Guyanese people with GOPIO or any possibility of them returning to India in the future. From what we are seeing, we could well be used just to help in developing India, and then receive the “shitty end of the stick”. Often what they have to say in defense when examined, has no substance, relevance, merits or "validity", no supporting evidence (but garbed opinion) to comments and defense made against my complaint in the letter to GOPIO, although all threads and post can be retrieved since my time on this forum. If the majority of the common people think this way, wonder what’s in the minds of those GOPIO representatives from India. This is why I had said in an earlier post, that should we for any reason have to return to India, it should be in a place like Riyadh in Saudi Arabia to avoid mingling and related problems that would lead to regression the last thing we need given our history and present situations. We worked too hard and came too far for that.

The standards here can be judged based on what was going on here and if there is any omission on my part, the hubbers are more than welcome to point that out and any weakness in my responses i.e. unjustified statements.

Though it would appear that most of these abusers including the British ones have left the forum, I have to say, that many could be prowling around under different user names and could be doing another round, only that they are now limited as to the extent.

I hope I am of some assistance to GOPIO in its present and future objectives in what I explained above. I am sending a copy to the admin of the old hub - Rajaram. Only his email address I have access to.

cc: Rajaram @forumhub.com
cc: GOPIO
cc: Ramasarran at GOPIO
cc: Prakash at Guyanese East Indian Civic Association
cc: Danny Doobay at the Guyana Consulate in Toronto


PS. This has been a big job and given my other commitments, I can't afford to spend more time on it. Sorry for any mistakes that missed my eyes.

[Vini Vidi Vici]

Madamme,

i don't want to be frank but I seriously ask you, are you mentally affected or simply ill?

[HindustaniLadka]

Indian society is by far one of the most societies in the world...if it is willing to accept foreigners and Indians that immigrated to America...why would they be against people who migrated to Guyana? I think you are taking hte actions of a few people too seriously...

Also, can you please prove that hte various people said these things t you? I have read many of hteir posts before and they do not seem like people who would try to insult others who do not do anything wrong...

[blahblah]

Since I have referred this to the biggest court in the whole world and I will take a couple of months to read certain posts here,I would reserve my comments for the time being. :D
===============================================

"'But I don't want to go among mad people',Alice remarked.

'Oh,you cant help that',said the cat.'We are all mad here.I'm mad,you're mad'.

'How do you know that I'm mad?',said Alice.

'You must be',said the cat.'Or you would'nt have come here'".

[ By Lewis Carroll - Alice in Wonderland] :wink:

[Idiappam]

How many are there in Guyana?

[Guyana]

[tscii]>>Also, can you please prove that the various people said these things t you? I have read many of their posts before and they do not seem like people who would try to insult others who do not do anything wrong...<<

HL,

I only intended to come back to correct some of my mistakes due to pressures from others for an early response which I had limited time for. But I don't want others to think that I am trying to avoid your concerns. As I said earlier, all the threads and posts can be retrieved. A copy of the above post has been emailed to the authorities and a copy was cc to the admin (Rajaram) who can prove so. The admins have access to all the information including threads they have removed and post they have edited. Please refer to them (the admins) and you can also "insist" on the authorities in seeing that this is done. Then if you remain dissatisfied, you can come back to me.

I know you have only been on this forum for less than a year, about a year and a half after I came.

Perhaps too, that Prakash at Guyanese East Indian Civic Association may have access to a number of reported cases - proof can come from him.

The “norm” does not involve just a "few people" as you put it, it runs deeper. Nothing wrong must first be done when the "norm" has been firmly established.


Regards,

Urmila

[blahblah]

Somehow,I feel that accusing innocent people of being racists is as much a crime as being a racist oneself.

It is easy to come into conclusions without knowing people or even trying to do the same.But I feel that some people are simply trying to play the victim to gain some attention which otherwise they wouldn't have been able to get.

As for me,I have seen linguistic and religious fanatics here on this hub,but not a racist.If some people were criticized here,it was individual criticism and not aimed at any ethnic group.I can surely understand their cowardice in trying to portray it as racism and gain some support that way.It is simply a sign of frustration which is a result of this person being not able to make a name for him/herself.

[Guyana]

"Pursuers" will do any thing and you have been trying so hard at it. Again, trying to conveniently interpret my intenions. I guess all the people who have tackled identified problems throughout history, affecting them directly or those relating to them, were initially seen as trying to make a name for themself.

I truly wish the authorities would try to uncover who you really are in understanding where you are coming from. I think I know and you are no different from that Punnahai (according to what I said about her a week ago in my big post). It will come out eventually, where the problem lies and the people have been given all the information they need to be able to find that. You are not the judge and if you are, certainly not the final one!

Wonder whey they did not challenge those who posted in one of those 'Fijians return to India" thread in Indian history section and that from Chaotic whisperz in this thread, making similar points. I know why - cause its a thing on forum from about two years ago - an axe to grind with me out of.... Wonder too, why a mad or mental person would want to just make a name for him or herself or even be able to explain to someone that he or she is mental.

Such persons must be ignored forthwith.

Further ref:

See what "BAB" had to say in these parts of the Fijian thread:


http://forumhub.com/indhistory/5791.21344.08.16.28.html
http://forumhub.com/indhistory/5391.21344.08.16.28.html
http://forumhub.com/indhistory/18313.21344.08.16.28.html

[Shekhar]

Guyana,

Were you born like this, or it happened later?!!! :roll:

And the three moderators.. taking nap? :wink:

[goodsense]

My one time comment:

I think Guyana made hundreds if not thousands of statements as to what she encountered in Britain, if not by British elsewhere since. She clearly stated that on numerous occasions her work was disrupted in various places including this forum and for years. Why is that so often forgotten and/or ignored when making certain comments, directed only at harassing her. Is it just for convenience?

I want to share that research findings show that an Indian from India can't beat an "Indo" Guyanese in any University. That should say something.

Study/test was conducted and it showed that Indo Guyanese women are the most beautiful in the world. But it was given to the women of Iceland. Why? Because the study/test also revealed that the women in Iceland were able to keep their bodies well, despite the harsh conditions there. That is why they were given first.

So there is enough food for thought here when referring to the beautiful (Urme from a small country compared to India) at least at sometime before British impact, as ugly and implying … again after the British impact when you ought to know better. Any random selection would reveal the same so a small representation is an irrelevant point. Of course India has beautiful women too. After all that is where Indo-Guyanese beauties came from. You can figure out what made the difference.

[goodsense]

Or should I say it bluntly, with respect to beauty, it is that the north and south Indian merging and a small percentage of "multicultural" influences that gives Indo-Guyanese women in particular, that special beauty and perfected "elegance" (they know how to look good in anything they chose to wear). In addition to that, Indo-Guyanese women are known to hold themselves well (can be distinguished easily from other Indians when you see them coming down the road or from a distance), hard-working and make great wives too.

http://www.landofsixpeoples.com/news301/nc30505.htm
********Analysing Indian cultural influences*******


http://www.miss-guyana.org/index.html

[Braandan]

Urme,
So you are fine and back here!
Good.. Hope all your nightmares of Leeds university is gone
and you are a new person now!
God bless you and I hope nobody is following you any more in Canada!

[goodsense]

Writing on behalf of females from Guyana makes me Urme ha :lol:

[goodsense]

PS. There is alot of sense here though and much can be applied to Urme..........Guyana's Grace has been answering out loud and Mount Roraima is still standing tall.............................................. ......

We shall see more in the future perhaps.

[Sandeep]

Study/test was conducted and it showed that Indo Guyanese women are the most beautiful in the world.

CONGRATS!!!

By the way how about men. Are they also so great.


I want to share that research findings show that an Indian from India can't beat an "Indo" Guyanese in any University. That should say something.

DOUBLE CONGRATS!!!

[Shekhar]

Study/test was conducted and it showed that Indo Guyanese women are the most beautiful in the world.

CONGRATS!!!

By the way how about men. Are they also so great.


I want to share that research findings show that an Indian from India can't beat an "Indo" Guyanese in any University. That should say something.

DOUBLE CONGRATS!!!

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

You are right out of comic book! Can there be something more absurd than "study to find out who are the most beautiful and intellegent as a community!! :banghead:

[Sandeep]

Shekar,

There is no use trying to get some goodsense into you. After all you are "just" an Indian form India. And you may not have tried the North Indian + South Indian trick also.

[sivajayan]

* deleted *


Pls help maintain the decorum...

[goodsense]

[tscii:b3970a06f4]
But don't we already know that people from different parts of the world think differently and I presume it also means to act differently.

Get hold of some Guyanese men and get their views first hand. I haven't seen any thing written up any where to suggest that Guyanese are crooks; immoral; hypocrite; corrupt; narrow minded; arrogant; …… :twisted: so what they say must have some merits :o . Moreover, most of what Urme has said was later confirmed by good sources and what I saw is that it is highly likely, that what is left of what she said so far, would be confirmed to be the truth in the near future.

Who is it that said that beautiful Indian women from Guyana has "no significance" cause Guyana is a small country?

I rest my case.
[/tscii:b3970a06f4]

[Sandeep]

Get hold of some Guyanese men and get their views first hand.

Won't it be impolite to go around asking people for their racial background.


Moreover, most of what Urme has said was later confirmed by good sources and what I saw is that it is highly likely, that what is left of what she said so far, would be confirmed to be the truth in the near future.

Why future ? I thought you said some study has already proven the capabilities for Indo Guyanese.

One question why are the people called "Indians in Guyanese" particularly since most of them may not even know how they are related to India. Because "Indian" is a nationality and not a Race. May be they should be called caucasians, dravidians, Aryans etc. This is also applicable to all other countries.

[goodsense]

****Won't it be impolite to go around asking people for their racial background <<

Sorry can' help you further here.

****Why future ? I thought you said some study has already proven the capabilities for Indo Guyanese.

If you don't believe what you read or take it in good faith, then the only option is to wait and see what the future brings in confirming whether or not the truth has been told and in good faith rather than be quick to lambaste someone.

In a multicultural Country like Guyana, the word "Indian' is commonly used to distinguish the people of Indian origin from the rest. If that offends you, I do apologize.

However, Guyanese people of Indian origin are proud to know that despite their distance and the number of years their ancestors left India, they managed to preserve a culture and religion that in many ways can't even be found in India today due to the changes India has undergone. For the purposes of people like you, they may refer to themselves as people of Indian origin, but what I am trying to say, it does not make them any less in culture (the substance of which they have retained however diffused the culture may be) and their religious practice, compared to what we know exist in India today.

[Sandeep]

I am not offended it was just a query :)

And it is sad to see that Guyanese Indians are still holding on to the same old culture without any improvisations. While we are all proud of Indian culture dont we all acknowledge that there are a lot of areas of improvement. Many (not all) of the changes happening in India are improvement.

[goodsense]

" it is sad to see that Guyanese Indians are still holding on to the same old culture without any improvisations. Many (not all) of the changes happening in India are improvement"

This is all debatable. What may seems as improvement for one country is not necessarily so for another. And from the things I read on this forum at present day, some of which I repeated above, I don't think the changes are towards improvement. I see a long road with all the social divides where "one" race of people exist which we have overcame - a fact you yourself regarded as a "trick".

I have never seen any person of Indian origin from Guyana criticize Hinduism as I have seen from Indians within India. The religion is practiced differently there and the teachings of it are also different, leading to disunity. Is that improvement? I am lead to believe that the old way is the right way.

Because of limited time, which I have already extended, I have to leave you here until some later time again.

[Shekhar]

Shekar,

There is no use trying to get some goodsense into you. After all you are "just" an Indian form India. And you may not have tried the North Indian + South Indian trick also.

Sandeep, your language is really funny.!!

OK agreed, I was a bit brash.. sorry.
But the point I was trying to make is that you cannot generalise a community. More so you cannot quantify beauty.. it is so relative in perception. You find 'beautiful' women in all communities and you will find 'ugly' women in all communities.
What does it mean "Indo-Guyanese women are the most beautiful in the world"?!! Does it mean all Indo Guyanese women are more beautiful than any other woman in the world?!! How was the 'study' conducted? How did they measure the beauty of the eyes, nose, lips etc.. in comparision with women of other communities?
What do you mean when you say "an Indo cannot beat an Indo-Guyanese, in any university?" Does it mean that the dullest Guyanese Indian is more intelligent than the most intelligent Indian!! Can you now see the absurdity of the whole thing?

Frankly, I have not understood your comment above :? "good sense ???!!!"; "Just an Indian??!!".. Beats me..

[NOV]

Wear your humour cap Shekhar; Sandeep is at his wit best. :thumbsup:
see who's post he is quoting....

[Sandeep]

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

:hammer: :hammer: :hammer:

Shekar I am sending you a pm :)

[Shekhar]

OK Sandeep!! :notworthy:
I think I have got a bit rusty having gotten burried in ocean of work!! :oops: :oops:

[blahblah]

I rest my case.


That is good sense! :)

Just see my avtar if you want to have an idea how Indian men from India are.Isn't he a cutie,like those most beautiful women? :D

[Roshan]

Just see my avtar if you want to have an idea how Indian men from India are.Isn't he a cutie,like those most beautiful women? :D

I was trying to find the reason behind your avatar else where and now I've found it :lol: :lol:

[goodsense]

Referring to people as "dumbheads" after being quickened in using words like "ladies fingers" to describe them and "after" realizing (through the efforts of the offended) the "unreliability" of your conclusions due to pure "mischief" by other members here, is not easily forgettable.

What you wrote to Ramsaran at GOPIO "thereafter" referring to yourself as a handsome boy from "Andhra" spelt with a capital "A" and that beautiful girl from "guyana" written in a small 'g", has not been erased. To begin with we are thought that countries are spelt with capital letters. Here we have a state taking precedence in being spelt with a capital letter over a country and this is coming from a man who considers himself to be of elevated thoughts and hence educated with a revealing personality of frequent "sarcasm", also found to be prevalent in his "modern day"culture, based on other information gathered.

When there are occurrences in this sequence, they are no justifiable excuse. There is only one explanation. Certainly "prejudices" manifest themselves in various forms. And as "BAB" once put it on this forum referring to an incident of similar nature of the past, people quickly know how to "rid" themselves of prejudices (this was after the person (also from a similar background) was challenged)).

Looking at a matter, in the abstract, failing to review what was said and done before, is only an escape. Indeed, its important to look at who is "posting" and whose is "quoting", but it is also important to do so from the beginning, not in the middle or the end. What we already know to be the truth can't be distorted so easily. So it doesn't matter what "jazz" any one come here with. Of course be free to write what you want.

[sivajayan]

I rest my case.


That is good sense! :)

Just see my avtar if you want to have an idea how Indian men from India are.Isn't he a cutie,like those most beautiful women? :D

Which avatar will be the next? Turtle, Rama, Krishna or Buddha?

[goodsense]

Yes, humans can change in physical appearance. Nothing is stagnant. Only God is the author and the finisher and never "changes", but at the same time can take any shape or form, physically.

While some humans can change, some can also be stagnant. It depends too on what kind of changes we are talking about.

Not everyone can experience changes and for those who have been there and back, it takes something to be there in the first place and to be back.

If this doesn't make "goodsense", you have to read a bit further in-between the lines.

[sivajayan]

If this doesn't make "goodsense", you have to read a bit further in-between the lines.
All I read in-between the lines is emptyness :lol:
Try a reciprocal writing.

[goodsense]

OK you win :D

[goodsense]

Never to be forgotten:

http://ancestors0.tripod.com/Guiana_1838.htm

May sure you click on the flags that allow for clicking.

[NM]

Just see my avtar if you want to have an idea how Indian men from India are.Isn't he a cutie,like those most beautiful women? :D

I was trying to find the reason behind your avatar else where and now I've found it :lol: :lol:agreed, makes perfect sense :lol:

[goodsense]

Very interesting part of the wesbite:

http://mohamedashin.tripod.com/Mere_Jaan.htm :D :D :D

[goodsense]

A highly "emotional" website indeed! Especially with all those carefully selected, meaningful and appropriate songs, pictures and the rest. I didn't realize it until I had the chance to thoroughly explore it. It certainly serves as a good "synopsis" of the history of Guyana Indians to their present day status where they are and whom they come into contact with.

Mark it "who they are and who they come into contact with", as these factors affect changes and India nor Guyana could not/can't take "care" of them or give them the "love" they deserve. Some times some of us are better off with "step mothers", "step fathers", "step brothers" and "step sisters".

Nirosha, I guest your question must have been answered by now i.e. why Guyana Indians left Guyana in Droves for Canada: http://www.angelfire.com/indie/mohdasgar/azimshazim.htm

[goodsense]

Due to certain impacts which you are aware of, the South Indians in Guyana are amongst the poorest, the reason why many are stuck in Guyana. And some South Indians feel that people of the North including those with relations on both sides, do not like South Indians. Well you are wrong. They are my blood too, but I never had the chance to enjoy my relationships with them.

While many of us ran from Guyana, we have left loved ones we haven't seen for many years. For me I haven't see close relatives like my dad's brothers and sisters for long long years (I am ashamed to say how many). I always wanted to see them, but it was not possible. In the last three years I have lost two of my dad's brother and now one sister (and two of my dad's other brothers previously while abroad whose funerals I also could not attend). Even this funeral (on coming Tuesday) I wouldn't be able to attend. I can tell you, it is giving me one of the deepest "grief" and "agony" ever in my life.

[goodsense]

Although no one has anything to say (for whatever reason), I am pleased to say I made it to the funeral and just got back safely. It was quite an experience in Guyana for one week.

[Shekhar]

I made it to the funeral and just got back safely.

I wonder which is the sad part!! :lol: :lol:

[Bebeto]

good sense,
you got back with or without guyana?

[goodsense]

People, the "thirteenth" day (significant to Hindus) since the funeral is not even here yet, and my grievance is a long way from being over. I am not only grieving one death (I am haunted by the old and new, the new has certainly brought on the old which I was absent from and moreover, I am the only family member from our side residing overseas that went to Guyana last week for the funeral and had to deal with it all) and many situations I came across during my short stay over there. You must understand that the drama/discoveries (in particular the recent ones including my own posts) on this forum, leading up to my recent encounters like the death and the reasons for them etc. and my sudden call to Guyana (can't believe I was there and what I covered in such a short time and being back here, all in one week) after so many years and what I saw over there, took a toll on me which I haven't been able to explain to anyone as yet. So I am not ready for this (:lol:). Please take it easy.

[NM]

I made it to the funeral and just got back safely.

I wonder which is the sad part!! :lol: :lol:
Shekhar......good to see u, friend! :D How're you?? I can see you're still in 'top form'.. :mrgreen:

[Shekhar]

Thanx NM. Been missing you all!!! :wink:

[NM]

Hmmm nice to know someone misses the female brigades :lol: and possibly the :hammer: too? :twisted:
anyway, hv a great day! :D

[goodsense]

Now that I am in better shape, I can narrate my short visit to Guyana.

After receiving the message the Saturday evening (just after some of us ate at my brother's Pooja while some of us were not able to since the message was whispered around so my dad would not hear), we could not decide who should go to Guyana. For one thing the boys (my brothers)were going to funerals of the uncles and my dad is not in good health and I have been occupied with other issues. Besides, my passport was not valid and this is the first time that has been the case since April 2005. Although I wished to go and wanted to be at the funeral, I thought it was not possible, the time was too short to sort so many things out.

It was around 11am the Monday, I realized I could get my passport renewed the same day although I was thinking about it two weeks before and got up the necessaries. My poor mother came down with a suitcase (since all of mine are full and locked away and there was no time to sort that out either). I got the passport matter sorted by 5 p.m. (we - my mother and I were the last to leave the office). I then had two hours to get dressed, pack and head to the airport to catch my 8:30 p.m. flight.

Over the years, due to the unsafe situation in Guyana brought fear when the thought of going down there came to mind. This time no such fear was in my mind. All I knew I wanted to be there. I was already looking run-down due to the sadness over the two days since the message came. By the time I arrived at my final destination, I was close to being drained.

You have to be a Guyanese or a West Indian to experience the feeling when I knew we were close to the territories. There was a certain energy flowing. We stopped in Trinidad for about an hour. I was quite impressed with the Airport there, no difference felt between that here and there, except for the fact that there were more West Indians around. I got into Georgetown about 7am and missed one piece of my luggage, the only one with my clothing. I stood there and argued with one of the staff from British West Indian Airline. He finally found it and I later learnt one of my cousins were waiting outside since 4:30 am since it was not previously indicated that we would be stopping in Trinidad. One girl at the airport waiting for one of her pieces told me same thing happened to her on her past flight there and when she found the suitcase, it was emptied.

I met briefly with one of my uncles in the city and left for my two-hour ride to catch a boat. This boat usually takes "five" hours minimum (and takes a few hundred passengers) before it gets to the destination, but due to the fact the funeral was 3pm and it was already 11am, I got into a small boat of about 6, which goes faster. It did it in 40 minutes. It was my first time in such a boat, but my fear was overcome by the anxiety to be where I was going. It was raining too and I was told it is not safe to go into those boats in such weather, but I had no choice. People had to hold my hands to get me on. Then I met the widow of my recent deceased uncle and the daughter-in-law of my aunt in the same boat. We realized who we are after a brief conversation as to where we were going and why. Tears were shed and we held on to one another.

Once we got off the boat, we met with people who quickly knew who we are (we are related by one way or the other or know someone who knows the person and vice-versa). It was almost like we are in a small village and here we are talking about a large county (I would not say if it is the largest or smallest or the middle, but there are three counties). Relatives were on the way to meet me there, but we stopped them on the way since time was against all of us.

I had another 40 minutes ride before I get to another cousin's house where I had a shower and got changed. It was already 2pm. I got to the funeral and there I was seeing people I haven't seen for 18 good long years. Some looked the same, some have aged that it took me time to figure out who they are. And of course, there were relatives like the children of the aunt I just lost, I am meeting for the first time. It was heart-breaking to be meeting them for the first time and seeing them in the pain there were in. It was a bit awkward when I tried to comfort them, not having previous ties.

Everyone saw my long teardrops rolling down my face, but did not know what I was thinking about or feeling. There was a lot going on (in particular, these uncles and my aunt are young people whose lives were cut short. There were in the 40's and this one just turned 50) in my mind. I was certainly crying for many things as aforementioned. I whispered to my aunt why I did not come all these years and I touched her face to express my love, that it is not because of lost love. The children were at last very happy to have met with me, considering me their eldest sister, my dad being the eldest child and me being the eldest child of my dad and first (first survived) grandchild. So there was sadness, unions and re-unions.

The following day, I visited my hometown and everything was so different. I walked passed the land I once lived on (my father's) and did not recognize it until someone shouted out. Of course I recognized and paid oblations to the little temple I once worshipped in. It is still glowing and well kept.

I have to say I still find Guyana beautiful, however abandoned it might appear. I had a special touch with it this time compared to my first and only previous visit there 18 years ago. I re-discovered it although it seems like I was going to a new country. I can't express how I felt when I was asked by an immigration officer (an Englishman of all) checking passports as you walk by from the flight, "what is the purpose of your visit mam". I replied ……..…. I baffled with the question for a while asking myself - how can I be asked such a question in the land I was born in, just because I was holding a foreign passport. When I returned to Georgetown the weekend, before I left Guyana, fear started to build up. I was scared to go out late, scared of snakes (since the flood water lodged in certain low lands and yards, but the countrysides were least affected) etc. It was funny walking through the market places and viewing the old style of questioning the vendors.

As I walked through my home town and surrounding areas, I was saddened by the lives of small children and young teenagers. The money I took with me, I shared away to them. I am a bit of a beggar myself, so you can imagine the situation when a beggar gives to other beggars :( :wink: :lol:. I came back with a strong desire to help those children and teenagers in whatever way I can.

There is a lot more I encountered in between this time and to the time I left (the Sunday) and while some are very private, I do not want to bore you since most of you here are not from Guyana or the West Indies.

[goodsense]

http://www.geocities.com/sutley1916/Progress.html

O I forgot! One thing I learnt when in Guyana at one of the nightly rituals of prayers and the singing of Bhajans, is the meaning of this song. I made special enquiry about this song just after it was sang and I hope I got the right answer or something close enough.

I always knew the Hindi words and can sing this song well too, but did not know the full meaning. Now I have a better sense. I was told it refers to the liberation/freedom of the soul never to be returned again to oppression, pain or suffering.

[goodsense]

I did say that Iceland was held to have the most beautiful women globally!

Almost everything I say seems to follow.

http://www.missworld.tv/

[Madurai Veeran]

Dear Urmila:

It is time you look forward to the future. No one here has any interest in denying you the pride you take in identifying yourself as one of Indian descent. But then, you should understand that Indian-ness has nothing to do with you being a Hindu, Christian, Buddhist or a Muslim. It is about being what you are and not denying it.

Get out of that paranoid mindset. It has not done you any good and will not do you any good now or in future.

No one here means you any harm. Yes, you have the 'the good, the bad and the butt ugly' every where in this world.

Madurai Veeran

"the good, the bady and the butt ugly" - copyright Madurai Veeran

[schnappi]

"the good, the bady and the butt ugly" - copyright Madurai Veeran
:thumbsup:

The admin RR will take care about the copyright next time. :lol:

[goodsense]

Another good piece missed from posting. Well as many of you may already know, India has given Guyana a good sum of money to build the stadium for the world cup in 2007. Presently, in Guyana, a number of Indian engineers from India were sent out and they are on the job building the stadium. While I was there I was told that the black/Afro Guyanese citizens of Guyana and perhaps elsewhere in the Caribbean (CARICOM headquarters in Guyana - http://www.caricom.org/jsp/projects/projects_index.jsp?menu=projects) - where they dominate (and are part of the International Cricket Council which also includes some of the main countries hosting world cup 2007 in the West Indies), are complaining that they should be allowed to work on the stadium.

http://www.caribbeancricket.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1513
"Trouble in Guyana World Cup Camp".............

I know many Guyanese and other people from other parts of the world, will be going to Guyana in 2007. My hope is that they would have a safe and enjoyable stay :)

[skanthan]

Hi Urmila!

[skanthan]

Hey Urmila!

How do you know I told Punnahai you are from Guyana? I forgot about all this since so long and all of a sudden I see you and this statement of yours, "Skanthavelu disclosed to Punnahai..." on the forum. :shock:

[goodsense]

We keep hearing about this "Urmila". How do we know that she is still alive? :lol: :lol: :lol: :P

Are we dreaming or something? :D

[skanthan]

No, goodsense.

Urmila is alive. I thought she would of had this Leeds issue done and overwith by now rather than it continuing from old FH to here.. :lol: :lol2: I was on FH when she first came and started putting up posts there about Leeds.

[Idiappam]

Ah! Another case, for the Alfred Hitchcock series!

[goodsense]

Let me tell you a little story. There was a man called Peeklow. One lady showed up at his door and keep calling out "Peeklow; Peeklow". She had no answer and after she got tired of calling out and waiting for an answer, she decided to go away. Meanwhile, she was having Goosebumps. As she was walking away, she ran into her daughter and she told her daughter that she was calling out for "Peeklow" and had no answer. Her daughter turned to her and said, O mommy, that man died a few months ago. The lady was so scared; she never called out the name "Peeklow" again.

So be careful, stop calling out "Dear Urmila; Hi Urmila; Hey Urmila"...

Let me go before I start weeing myself with laughs.

[skanthan]

Yeah you guys are probably correct. She probably ain't gonna be showing up here again. Bye, bye, Urmila, wherever you are! :rotfl:

[goodsense]

Skantha, you are still rolling away with laughs here?

***********

I don't like to harp on the past, but since there has been attacks here by different people in addition to existing facts many us are aware of and where these hubbers defended themselves by calling people mental and accused them of looking to make marks etc., I feel obliged (you have already seen what other hubbers said and an article written by Nagar Muthu posted in this same thread) to present all pieces of proof I can find that supports the truth or at least what was thought to be going on.

"Straightening him self out on the couch, Terry said, "We kind of get lost when they say Caribbean... When you say Indian, well the Indians don't really like us," he said. "We're like hanging in the middle there," he pondered out loud".

http://members.lycos.co.uk/mohdasgar/Guyana.html

* First click on Terry Gajraj (may need to do the same when other page shows up), then on articles, then on Guyana Baboo by Mattie Singh - check paragraph "19" (I think, but its there in the article).

NB. 1. As hub history shows, only few of such hubbers were disciplined (while some escaped by putting up arguments that doesn't even hold) and that was done only when the offended responded accordingly (and was disciplined - evident by deletion of post or parts of posts) in pointing out who "caused".

NB. 2 T. Gajraj resides in New York.

Coincidentally, all of us saying the same thing from Trinidad to Guyana, Canada and New York have it all wrong. I think its time the truth be accepted and people should be honest and mature enough to admit it openly than to keep defending at the expense of others :wink: :wink: :wink:

[skanthan]

Hi goodsense,

I was not laughing at Urmila. I was laughing at what another hubber said about me calling Urmila when she has not been on this forum since how long. I know about people calling others mental and manipulating situations to prove their points. When Urmila came to me on old FH in November 2002, these same things started occuring. Also when earlier that same year I revealed to FH that I am not a born Tamil, but indeed a Caucasian who adapted South Indian Hinduism, took a Tamil name, and various aspects of South Indian/Sri Lankan Tamil culture, I myself was attacked in this same way. This is mistake which, for a long time, I regretted making.

This is why I was so surprised when I came here and saw so many posts by Urmila aka Guyana here on new FH. It was so long since I and Urmila talked that I had forgotten all this thinking that Urmila has resolved her issue with Leeds. This was after I got angry with Urmila on my old "Learning Tamil" thread and told her to stop spamming my thread with her "uLaRals". And then all of a sudden almost two years later, I see Urmila continued onto here from old FH with talking about Leeds.

[goodsense]

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

It's my turn to do this for a long time.

I am sure you will hear about Urmila one day. You may meet her
if not in body in spirit or come to know of her whereabouts. From all I have read, I think she intends to show herself in person one day, cause I know too, she has something genuine to bringforth. She is certainly not intending to hide herself and forever. May be she also needs to concentrate on other things for a while, while she awaits the right time.

Keep the fingers cross and stay quiet.

Take care and :lol: in the meantime.

[skanthan]

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

It's my turn to do this for a long time.

I am sure you will hear about Urmila one day. You may meet her
if not in body in spirit or come to know of her whereabouts. From all I have read, I think she intends to show herself in person one day, cause I know too, she has something genuine to bringforth. She is certainly not intending to hide herself and forever. May be she also needs to concentrate on other things for a while, while she awaits the right time.

Keep the fingers cross and stay quiet.

Take care and :lol: in the meantime.


Peeklow/Alfred Hitchcock

Yo. goodsense!!!!

May I know what you find so funny?!

[goodsense]

At this time, I can't tell you everthing I found funny. One day when you come to know, you too will be rolling with laughs like this.

What I can say is, for a long time, I felt like a "small cog" in "a big machine". But now I have realized how "crucial" being that "small cog" was. Take it with a smile :)

[davie]

Wow still this gyanese thread is surviving. Good Job.

[skanthan]

Goodsense,

I too was rolling with laughter a while ago on this thread as you have seen. And for reasons which are better known to myself and Urmila.

ie: Since I told off Urmila on old FH, I had relocated to a place on the oppisite end of Edmonton from where I was living previously. Since then, Urmila must of tried at some point to contact me and when she got a message stating that my number was no longer in service, she maybe thought I got scared and ran away from there! :lol: :lol2:

[goodsense]

Well, Urmila is very much well and alive. Go to T. Gajraj's guestbook for 2006. She published there.

http://www.terrygajraj.com/cgi-bin/gbook/viewposts?1

I can tell you, not many Guyanese have the name "Urmila" and I don't think many from Guyana with such a name lives in Toronto, Canada. You can put the rest together based on what you see there, here and elsewhere :D

[skanthan]

Goodsense,

In a way, that is true what you are saying. I have met many a person from Guyana and Trinidad who have half European half Hindu names. ie: Iris Madho, Vanessa Ramdass. Urmila was one of a few Indians from the Carribean who have a full Hindu Name. And many Hindu names were probably lost when people migrated from India to places such as Guyana, Trinidad and Fiji. And from my experiences with Guyana Indian and Fiji Indian Hindu cultures, I can see that the Indians in those places have somewhat formed cultures of their own based on the original cultures from India. ie: I have seen when the Guyanese people do their Mahamantra and Hawan(Homa) path, the way they chant the mantras will be different from thr original Indian chanting meters. I don't even know what meter this is they are chanting in!

[goodsense]

Well I don't know about any deviation from the original ways of practicing Hinduism. Most of our temples in Toronto are headed by Guyanese and we have many people from India going to them and I never heard any complaints.

Perhaps, you should take a visit down to our Vishnu Mandir sometime, headed by Dr. B. Doobay (Indians from India look up to him greatly). I enjoy his ways of doing things and his teachings, the best. That is where I am heading right now, so I will catch you later.

[skanthan]

Goodsense,

I understand about this. It is very good that there is a interaction berween Hindus from all countries like India, Sri Lanka, Singapore, Guyana and other countries with large Hindu populations. This interaction is also here in Edmonton. Like in the Ganesh temple(my temple), there is large number of Sri Lankan Tamil and a couple of Sinhalese families there. And in addition to the Sri Lankan devotees, there are alot of people, Hindi speakers, Telugus, Kannadigas, Indian Tamils and other people from India, people from Fiji, people from South Africa and quite a few people of European descent such as myself attendimg the temple. Our board mebers, president and vice president are all from Sri Lanka, and our manager is from Fiji. I am quite happy with this interaction of people from all Hindu communities in the Ganesh Temple. This is a big contrast from other temples in Edmonton which are largely attended by people from North India and very few people from other Hindu communities. And whith this attendance of people from all places, a person can experience so many different kinds of poojas, bhajans and other things. I have gone to satsangs with people from Guyana and Fiji which were conducted and attended by people from those places so with these people, I was able to see their poojas and satsangs which are very much like those attended by people from India or Sri Lanka but with some uniquely Fijian or Guyanese flavor to it. I can say it was a very wonderful experience for me. I look forward to more such experiences in the years ahead. I will certainly talk more about my experiences as a Hindu here on the board with all those who are interested.

Until then,
vaNakkam!

[goodsense]

Let's backtrack a bit here. I was in a rush this morning and did not respond completely.

First you said that it is common that Guyanese people do not have a full Indian name. I disagree. I was only saying that "Urmila" is not a popular name in Guyana as far as I am aware. Most Indo-Guyanese has a full Indian name, but when they come to the west, they change or add a first name. The reason being, their first names are very old fashion, long and difficult to pronounce. Examples of such names are "Bhagpattie", "Nandranie" and so on. These names get shortened to Bhag or Nan. Or if the shortened names do not sound good to the ear, the user of such names find the closest English name, but on birth certificates, their full Indian name is there as it is on all legal documents.

I agree that some English first names have been adopted and some English culture, but it did not 'tilt" the Indian culture. As Nagar Muthu had put it, we represent what we have inherited and what we have acquired. This is no indication that we have "tilted" the Hindu religion in practice. As you must be aware from this forum, Hinduism is practiced differently in different parts of India.

So when you say:

"from my experiences with Guyana Indian and Fiji Indian Hindu cultures, I can see that the Indians in those places have somewhat formed cultures of their own based on the original cultures from India. i.e.: I have seen when the Guyanese people do their Mahamantra and Hawan(Homa) path, the way they chant the mantras will be different from their original Indian chanting meters. I don't even know what meter this is they are chanting in!"

I am confused. You comment about how they chant the Mahamantras followed by an assumption, which indicate that you amde that assumption based on what you have been reading from my other posts i.e. the websites I have referred to etc. The way in which an Indo-Guyanese "entertainer" entertains/represents his country in which different races exist and must be accomodated, is no basis for judging how an Indo-Guyanese practice his/her religion or the their individual cultural identiy.

However, the differences, there is standard practices in Hinduism.
The Vishnu Mandir is a leading temple in Toronto other than the Ram and Devi Mandirs. There is a large number of devotees that go to them all, and I am sure there are from different parts of the world which you listed. It doesn't matter which part of the world they are from, when the come, they all follow the standards there.

And I can tell you, I have been going to different temples run by Trinidadians and Guyanese and there are slight differences even amongst the Guyanese ones.

There have been many changes in India as to how Hinduism is practiced and people from Guyana, Trinidad and perhaps places like Fiji were not exposed to such changes. As such, I am inclined to believe that these places have the older ways of such practices and if anything at all, what you said, is the other way around.

The beauty about being an Indo-Guyanese is to be able to be flexible, without distorting the Indian culture or religious practices, by the little that has been acquired by selectivity (usually individual preferences which vary from person to person).

************

In you last post you made mention about the similarity in the practices of people from other countries, except Guyana and Fiji. I doubt whether there is similarity, because from this forum you would know that North and South Indians practice Hinduism differently. I assume that all the people there are South Indians, except for the Ganesh temple you refer to where only North Indians go.

A large number of Guyanes people had intermarriages with North and South so they may have developed a "unique" way in practicing Hinduism as a result of that. I am not in the position to comment further.

[skanthan]

Okay goodense,

I understand now what are you getting at with the name thing. Sorry if I sounded as I was making any biases or anything. I can see that due to intermarriages between people from North India and South India, the Guyanese Hindu culture has that mix of influences from both sides. And maybe due to influences from the English culture and the local culrure, the Guyanese Hindu culture seems a little different from the culture of India. And that is not bad. When I mentioned about people frim all parts of the Hindu world coming to Ganesh temple, I said this in a good, lighthearted way. I am happy to see people from all Hindu communities at my temple. And I really enjoy and appreciate the vastness and diversity of Hinduism. I believe that there should always be unity and intermingling among all people. Please never think that I have any biases, judgements, or generalizations about anyone. Because, I do not. Thank you!

And what about your post here and other parts of this forum? ie: about the Guyanese entertainer? I did not read any of your posts prior to when I first posted on this thread.

[skanthan]

Writing on behalf of females from Guyana makes me Urme ha :lol:

??????

[goodsense]

Well, I am glad you raised those points, cause they could have been the thoughts in many other minds.

What has to be borne in mind, is regardless of any religious practices or where the people are from, they all must meet certain standards. Why pay so much attention to the minor things. As for Indo-Guyanese, this is why I brought the awareness of the "impact of Indentureship", which we need to understand before casting any blame or underestimation of people. We need to understand what is within control and what is not.

In Guyana as many would know, the indo-Guyanese are very much segregated from other races. For example, when I was in Guyana recently, I walked very freely in my hometown cause it's all Indians and has always been that way. The nearby towns are also populated by Indians and few far away ones with a few other races (Chinese and blacks), but they (Chinese, blacks in addition to Portuguese) are predominantly in the capital (Georgetown) and the natives in the Interiors and they are also the minorities (Guyana always had over 50% Indian majority, even after so many have left). I was prompted to reached out to the poor and old (including people I never spoke to when I lived there as a child) cause I felt, they are all part of me (you also have a special likeness for the people you grow up with, no matter who they may be, rich or poor) and I may not see them again in my next visit. So this should give some indication as to the true realities.

We all as individuals like what we are use to and what we grow up with and we like to hold on to it until we are mature enough to examine and question. Then some of us make changes, which can be major or minor. Until you yourself have not been exposed to or have been in such a situation, you have no right to judge someone who has.

[goodsense]

I noticed your last post. That can mean many things. One possibility is that all the races there have an "elegance" about them, based on the fact they have adopted some aspect of western culture. It was never said though, that such aspect of western culture by itself is elegant nor that the Indo-Guaynese have adopted cultures from all these races. That would be generalizing.

Don't tell me this is what you were thinking about when you made your post today.

Anyway, this is enough for today.

[skanthan]

No, Goodsense,

I did not think this anytime when I wrote my last post.

About the name thing. When you told me that Urmila is not a very common name in your country, Guyana, I came under the impression that many names were either lost or became uncommon during or after the migratuin from India to Guyana, Trinidad, Fiji and other areas where indentured labour was going on. I hope that this is not the case!

[goodsense]

" I came under the impression that many names were either lost or became uncommon during or after the migratuin from India to Guyana, Trinidad, Fiji and other areas where indentured labour was going on. I hope that this is not the case!"

Well if you think people have been loosing themselves, how important should it be that they have lost "first" names? :lol:

[skanthan]

:lol2:

Okay, okay goodsense!

One question.. Is Hindi still spoken in Guyana? Some Guyanese people have told me that no one in Guyana knows or even speaks Hindi. But recently. met a few who know Hindi to some extent. I am confused. Please clarify.

[goodsense]

While growing up in Guyana, I recalled one of grandparents (female from Cashmere) and a few elderly (who came on recent ships) in the neighbourhood, spoke fluent Hindi. My parents and my generation, I would say no. I don't know how things are now since I have left that country some 20 years ago and only had two short visits.

In everyday language, most Guyanese when at home, be it Guyana, Canada or elsewhere, speak broken english with some Hindi words inbetween, in forming sentences. This is common in the people of my parents generation. Some times I don't like it cause when around them, I am forced to speak like them so they can understand me :wink:

In cultural settings, be it religious, movie watching etc., we always have English subtitles and usually, the religious leaders are fluent in Hindi and they translate in English. On Sunday mornings at the temple, we are given handouts with both the Hindi version then the English at the bottom. So we know a bit from that. Although I can't speak fluent Hindi, which would be the case of most people in my generation, when people speak Hindi around me, I can tell what they are talking about. It's easy to fill the gaps that way :)

[skanthan]

I had noticed that during my interactions with people from Guyana here in Edmonton. ie: they would speak in English with a peculiar twang and sometimes they would say something which sounded like they were speaking in Hindi. Thank you for clarifying this for me. Though, thank Durga Mata they did not speak this way with me! I can't always understand what the heck they are saying!

[goodsense]

Well Hindi is being taught at the various temples in Toronto and the young generation is taking advantage of it - perhaps as long as they are in parental control.

By the way, I heard the British Government is now funding/building Hindu schools. I wonder what the real objective is.

[skanthan]

I am happy to hear that the younger generation Guyanese children are learning Hindi. Maybe Hindi will experience a revival among the Guyanese community?

The same thing is also occuring in Fiji. When the migration from India to Fiji was going on, many Tamil, Telugu and Malayalam speakers found themselves in a dilemma during and after the indenture period, largely because they were unable to communicate with their Hindi speaking counterparts from North India. Due to this, later generations of South Indians in Fiji started to learn Hindi and were using this instead of the south Indian languages. As a result, the South Indian languages declined in impertance in Fiji. Recent statistics showed that only 5000 people in Fiji had some knowledge of Tamil. Out of that 5000, only 1000 can fluently read, write and speak in Tamil. Mostly older people. I do not know what is the stistics of Telugu in Fiji, but, I assume it is much the same as those for Tamil. Fortunately, in the last 5 years, Tamil and Telugu have been experiencing a slow revival in Fiji among the present generation of South Indians. This is result of a growing interest in these languages and now these languages(reading, witing, and speaking) are being taught at South Indian schools in Fiji. I happy to know that Guyanese and Fijian Indian children are rediscovering their languages. :wink:

[goodsense]

"Everybody who's living abroad has an emotional tie to India, and I think they're trying to cash in on that," said Jessie Kular, the MPP's wife, a nutritionist from Brampton. They're counting on non-resident Indians to fund gaps in social programs, and I find that really irresponsible,"

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1137365412890&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154&t=TS_Home

After careful re-consideration of the history and developments of this thread, I think this web-page belongs here too.

PEACE! :(

[Sandeep]

"Everybody who's living abroad has an emotional tie to India, and I think they're trying to cash in on that," said Jessie Kular, the MPP's wife, a nutritionist from Brampton. They're counting on non-resident Indians to fund gaps in social programs, and I find that really irresponsible,"

PEACE! :(

That B**** :evil:

Ok peace

[goodsense]

The earlier part of the article clearly refers to and includes "people of indian origin" and many of such persons have grandparents who were born in India, I am not even talking great grandparents.

[goodsense]

Deepi, (just feel like calling you that in a cute way) where are you now?

I better get on with my rice cooking. See you later. I hope I don't make your two strands of hair fall off now :D

[Sandeep]

Deepi, where are you now?
I hope I don't make your two strands of hair fall off now :D

I have been called many things but this is a first. :oops:

Anyway as my location shows I am presently in Singapore. As for the two strands of hair, they have stayed with me though thick and thin so no worries :lol:

[goodsense]

Good sense of humor. But it seems like some female must have pulled your hair before :lol:

There is something "amusing" about your "avatar" and perhaps the way you write that made me called you ":Deepi". I was thinking about that sometime before I saw or responded to your post yesterday.

Let me not digress further.

[goodsense]

This thread and related ones are starting to catch the attention of fellow Guyanese. A recent personal response to it I had:

" I'm amazed at the great work you're doing. I'm very pleased to meet people with such passion for their culture. Looking forward to meeting you sometime." :)

They will soon come to know that I was thought of and presented as that girl, at least initially, in the movie - Kuch Kuch Hota Hai :evil:

[goodsense]

Present status of Guyana Indians:

http://jahajis.150m.com/Crime_victims5.html

[goodsense]

A more up-dated site:

http://www.geocities.com/sutley1916/Heritage.html
http://www.angelfire.com/dragon3/rampur/British_help_comments_gy.html
http://members.lycos.co.uk/mohdasgar/Indian-wedding-Guyana.html

[goodsense]

http://ormila.canadianwebs.com/Ormila-Bhoopaul2.htm

[goodsense]

http://jhahoor.bravehost.com/Centenarian-Gajadhars-India-Guyana.html

I guess there is not too much more in a one person dialogue here :wink: :(

[jolly joker]

http://jhahoor.bravehost.com/Centenarian-Gajadhars-India-Guyana.html

... one person dialogue ... :wink: :(
you mean monologue?

[goodsense]

Think I was joking about things I said :wink: :

Subject: Centenarian Gajadhar - British and Indian Embassies

1) http://jhahoor.bravehost.com/Centenarian-Gajadhars-India-Guyana.html

i) An email from India
Hi,
do you have a photograph ?

We are awaiting your quick and positive reply.
Sudhir Kumar

No article nor image was carried in the Government owned Guyana Chronicle online. Jagdeo and the PPP wants your votes to give them another 5 years. Many images on (2) below, more than Eid and Phagwah celebrations.

ii) According to Kaieteur News, the centenarian's funeral will be finalised when his daughter arrives from the UK.
How safe will be the daughter in Guyana ?
Related link.
http://jahajis.150m.com/Ganie_robbed.html
Bandits rob man who came home for funeral
Monday, May 23rd 2005
iii) One woman was robbed before the funeral and had to borrow money for the funeral's expense.
The British and Indian Embassies in Georgetown should seek protection for the centenarian's daughter.

[goodsense]

And I am sure this poor woman is much older than myself, but she may have to go through the same fright like mself a few months back in that small boat across the dangerous water of the deep Essequibo River :(. She is from my area, about 45 mins walk.

http://www.guyanajournal.com/ecotour_mb.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essequibo_River
http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Shores/9253/Rivers.html

[jolly joker]

How safe will be the daughter in Guyana ?


You were not robbed, were you? I am quite sure that the robbers knew Urme very well and there for the travelling was safe. Who won't run away and hide if Urme is detected 100 000 miles away from the coast?

[goodsense]

We know once again who you are!

For your ignorance or whatever it is, these things don't happen on the coast where I am from. Further, we have few blacks on the Essequibo regions (unlike Berbice and Georgetown, the two other counties which are even smaller) and they only occupy one village (Darthmouth) on the whole Essequibo Coast and few are scathered with other races in the main town which is Anna Regina. You are targeted from the time you leave the airport to head to the main city, which you must pass to get to other parts of the country.

The difference here is, I still have lots of relatives in Guyana and I had them to meet and escort me at every port and I was well taught how to act etc. when I get there. Besides, I have a cousin who works for the President and he is armed and well known. This woman apparently don't have much relatives there and she is old and its well publicized in the news all over Guyana since her father is a centenarian, that the funeral is awaiting her arrival from UK.

I shouldn't even be responding to you, I am just doing this for the benefit of others on forum :wink:

[Badri]

Here's something heart warming for you, goodsense!

http://www.hindu.com/2006/03/17/stories/2006031701990600.htm

[goodsense]

Thanks Badri for the info. I know that the first lady is very much involved in helping the sick and poor children, but I didn't know she sought and had medical care for them from India and will continue to do so in India.

[skanthan]

How are you, goodsense? Is everything okay with you? Happy Ram Navami!

[goodsense]

Skanthavelu,

Yes, things are lot better than they use to be and I am sure you know why. The ups and downs of the effects are there, but by God's Grace, I am able to manage. Very sensitive, I must say!

Well, I would like to wish you the same - Happy Ram Navami.

Just a question, do you know why these festivities follow one another the way they do? There is a good reason, but may be we should not follow up here in this thread.

[goodsense]

Guyana is picking up on many of my threads and posts on this forum. This was sent to me this morning:

http://jahajis.150m.com/Indo-Guyanese-Guyana-Ormila.htm

Hope one day they will find everything and get a full sense. Only GOPIO I tried to do that with as of late last year when I found them. The people who run this Guyana forum, found me a few months ago, I didn't find them.

The Indians being the majority are perceived as the trouble-makers and the Blacks the victims, not so. Another publication sent to me:

There is no need for comments from the Indian Embassy in Guyana. Just garbish the letter. The letter writer is an 'asshole'

http://jahajis.150m.com/British_awards.htm
SN carried a story of the award of five prestigious and expensive British awards. And all the awardees were Black.

http://jahajis.150m.com/India-scholarships-PIO-Guyana.html

[goodsense]

For update:

http://www.stabroeknews.com/index.pl/article_letters?id=50034975

http://www.jahajeedesi.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1778

[goodsense]

Guyana's exodus sees success stories and losses
By Peter Jailall

Toronto - The greatest exodus in the history of Guyana took place during the rule of the People's National Congress (PNC), especially in the late 1970s and early 1980s.
In those debilitating years, hundreds of thousands of Guyanese fled the country, running away from the political dictatorship, seeking a life of peace and safety.
The bosses ruled Guyana during those bitter days with an iron fist, removing anyone who dared to oppose them.
The PNC rulers didn't care what racial group you belonged to; they punished you; even killed you, if you dared to challenge them.
As a matter of fact, if you were Guyanese of African descent you should have known better, and the licks you received were even hotter.
Some smart Indo-Guyanese, and people from other racial groups caught on quickly, and to avoid the 'cutrass' quickly purchased a PNC party card. This card also gave them access to jobs, promotions, and business opportunities.
And even to this day there are many prosperous old-money ex-PNC Indian business people who would like to see them back in power again. During those dreadful days, these businesses donated generously to the PNC, and even paid protection money.
The rulers of the day humiliated ordinary Guyanese by making them line-up for food, soap, and oil.
Law and order broke down, and bandits roamed Georgetown, taking occasional joy rides into the country, kicking down doors and terrorizing peaceful citizens.
Decent-minded Guyanese of all races could not stand the humiliation and terror, and so they fled by air, by land, and by sea, abandoning home, property, and money.
They fled to any country that would give them shelter.
The exodus saw families being broken up. Today many still are in a state of disrepair. Senior citizens, instead of warming themselves in the Guyana sunshine and the land of their birth, are instead spending their golden years in the cold, having kissed their pensions goodbye.
Many Guyanese were humiliated abroad, unable to secure employment to match their experience and qualifications.
Many suffered racial discrimination at the hands of their new employers at their different workplaces.
Many women were abused during the exodus. Children were separated from their parents. The kids appeared in foreign schools with gaps in their education.
Youths experienced high unemployment and alienation abroad. This drove many of them into the underworld. Now, they are returning voluntarily, while others are being deported by foreign governments.
Many Guyanese are fed up with the hardships abroad. In 1996 alone, 1,053 Guyanese were deported by foreign governments, some for violent crimes, others for drug-related offences.
Do Guyanese at home have an obligation to welcome these criminals? Should Guyanese taxpayers contribute to their rehabilitation?
There is also another layer to this dilemma. How do we deal with these situations with the understanding that these people were pushed out of their own homes and country? How do we expect them to live? To whom should they turn?
And on the wider issue of remigrants. As we know, many Guyanese who stayed at home resent the returnees, these expatriates who have come back in better times.
Then there are some Guyanese never made it on the return trip. They died during the 'neo-Middle Passage.'
Days before last Christmas, six Guyanese drowned in the Atlantic off the coast of Venezuela as they were trying to reach Guyana on a sailing boat that sprang a leak and sank.
Then on January 7, three Guyanese drowned in the Gulf of Mexico.
A few years ago a young woman was travelling 'backtrack,' hidden in a secret compartment of a truck as the driver tried to smuggle her across the border from Canada to the United States. She asphyxiated from inhaling carbon monoxide gas.
There are many, many more horrible stories of Guyanese who suffered and died trying to escape the wrath of those dreadful rulers. Now, many Guyanese from all walks of life want to return to their homeland.
Some, though, are reluctant to return because of the negative reception they'll receive:
"Al' yu expatriates come back now, nah! Weh al' yu been w'en we bin tekking PNC blows? Yu al' run 'way."
Guyanese at home must learn to forgive and forget. They should welcome their prodigal brothers and sisters with open arms.

Source: Indo-Caribbean world
http://www.indocaribbeanworld.com/
*************

I would say that this should apply to India too. Indians in India should accept their "prodigal brothers and sisters with open arms". And it makes a difference when you are given something than when you ask, demand or have to fight for it.

[Braandan]

"They should welcome their prodigal brothers and sisters with open arms"--
Duh
We have been welcoming from SriLanka, Nepal, Pakistan, Occupied Kashmir, China, Bhutan.. we are ourselves 1 billion.. and now you need from Guyana too..

Poor Bhaarat Maata!

[goodsense]

Before you come here to spam this thread out of malice for what I wrote in Indian History a few days ago in threads "Indian large heartedness" thread nad whether India is a rick or poor country in Indian history and culture section, why don't you go and trace where your criminal forthfathers came from in Britain? You had already called me ani-white didn't you?

Given the way you ended up in Australia, you can't have hopes to be welcomed back to Britain. British justice was only done where you kinds are involved.

[goodsense]

This writer was responsing to the rawness of black and white culture which we Indo-Guyanese people have to live with and knowing of my experience which I was writing about (a copy seen by him) in Britain when he said in response "A copy of my book,PLACE WITHOUT JOY,on sale for $19.95 post paid,will address these very issues by these morons and would also put these imbeciles in their historical perspective once and for all", it needs to be noted here too (in addition to the Indian Large Hearted" thread" in idian history and culture section where I posted recently that spawned attacks in my other thread in missc section "Do spirits talk".

My experience in Britian which Caesar picked up on - was in a letter and other correspondence supporting an advertisement by the Indian High Commission in Guyana as can be seen from the above links. This news of the offer made by the Indian High Commission relating to all diaspora Indians which this Commisioner had to vigourously defend (seen from above links in recent post), seems to have hit India today:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1488170.cms

India to offer scholarships to diaspora students
THE TIMES OF INDIA

[ Thursday, April 13, 2006 09:25:11 amIANS ]


To obtain a copy of Caesar's book:

The address is. V. George Davis, 2488 Lake
Ida Rd, Delray Beach, Fl 33445. USA.

Author: Ceasar Agustus

************
We thought we got rid of morons like kalki (white English whom I had recognized only too soon) coming and pretending to know a bit of Indian history and culture to buy way into rediculing and splitting us, but no, there are more. People who never had anything of their own will awlays be poo pooing around. We have to live with that fact.

[goodsense]

Guyana's Agriculture Minister, Satyadeo Sawh was murdered in his home in Earl's Court, LBI, ECD by heavily armed criminals. Three other persons were also killed, a guard, his sister and brother. This occurred sometime early Saturday 22 April 2006 morning.

********
This was a lovely man. I met him personally at last year's celebrations of Guyana Independence day in Toronto. He came all the way from Guyana to be with us.

How can we accept such things. It's not a new thing with our Indian Ministers getting killed in Guyana. It's an old act since independence time and from the time black power took over. What is the international world doing??????????

[Lambretta]

Guyana's Agriculture Minister, Satyadeo Sawh was murdered in his home in Earl's Court, LBI, ECD by heavily armed criminals. Three other persons were also killed, a guard, his sister and brother. This occurred sometime early Saturday 22 April 2006 morning.

********
This was a lovely man. I met him personally at last year's celebrations of Guyana Independence day in Toronto. He came all the way from Guyana to be with us.

How can we accept such things. It's not a new thing with our Indian Ministers getting killed in Guyana. It's an old act since independence time and from the time black power took over. What is the international world doing??????????
GS,
Sad to hear tat! Sounds shocking too! :(
Yea, pity the int'l world doesnt seem to be concerned abt this.....jus like in the Iraq issue!

[goodsense]

Yes Lamby, It's quite shocking. I am truly disturbed about this :cry: It took me a while to catch my breath. You hear about things but when you know the person, it makes a difference. I remember when he ended his speech last year in saying "When you get old and can't stand the cold, there is always a piece of land for you to come home to". I remember the smile on his face when he said this.

I think all Indians should leave Guyana and let the blacks take over and rule or let the Indians leave and let the British take back Guyana. It's hopeless otherwise. Meanshile, India should provide Guyana Indians with military training for self-defense. Guyana's defense force is made up of 98% Afro Guyanese. How many more like this should we wait for and which other country can Guyana Indians look for help?

http://jahajis.150m.com/Executions-Minister-Sawh.htm

[goodsense]

After reading the details of the assassinations, a chill went down my spine. I couldn't sleep all night. I got all my clothes ready yesterday evening for mandir this morning, but could not make it. I was extremely tired from shock and what not since yesterday morning and didn't even leave the house since :( Feeling just a bit better now.

http://www.angelfire.com/punk/madras/MASKED-ASSASSINS.htm

The whole community is in shock and old pains are brought right back. We can only console one another.

[NM]

Guyana's Agriculture Minister, Satyadeo Sawh was murdered in his home in Earl's Court, LBI, ECD by heavily armed criminals. Three other persons were also killed, a guard, his sister and brother. This occurred sometime early Saturday 22 April 2006 morning.

reminds me of similar incident in Fiji, where they overthrew their leader of Indian origin and forced many Idians to flee the country! :( Guess they just can't digest that Indians come froma great race :) (as a few of my learned Chinese friends would say, after their visit to Angkhor Wat :D )

[goodsense]

This has been going on in Guyana only for too long. Those with families still there are highly distressed. It's hard on many people. Many of us want partition now.

Response by caesar Angus:

A commission should be formed to withhold the salaries
of the president and the heads of the security forces.
They are guilty of deliberately standing by idly while
criminals are rampaging in the nation at will.What
security measures Guyanese ministers see when they
travel? It appears these morons do not institute what
they see in Guyana. Everything is ass forwards. There
is no initiative.No move to order. The country is in
the grip of violent criminals and the people are just
existing. Waiting for it to strike,knowing there is no
one to save them.I will not vote for Jagdeo,neither
should anyone.No one should. He has to go. I admit he
is facing a real task of having 50% of the
nation(blacks,the source of Guyana's problems and
decay from 1964) against him.He is however a loser,a
weak man, and has contributed to the Guyana situation
by years of inactivity, and appointing negroes who
have ties to the PNC to top security positions.The
result is moral decay, murder,robbery, and the chaos
that blacks thrive on. Doesn't this kind of behaviour
sound familiar? We have been to that theater
before.Jagdeo's attitude towards crime is an
embarassment to Indians. He must step down, and be
replaced by a strong PPP leader who should bring back
the death squads and kill the son of a bitch criminals
roaming the country. At the same time the heads and
seconds of the security forces must be replaced by PPP
leaning members.Reason. There is no security. Having
negroes in positions of the Interior
Ministry(security)has been the trump card of the PNC
and it's aligned criminal elements for years. They are
the moles,sleeper cells now active.The simple reason
why crime has been escalating in Guyana is that the
security forces are aligned with the PNC, and are
themselves part of the criminal element in Guyana.In
fact,they are the problem. As of now,everything else
has been tried in Guyana, including patience and
blood.That did not work. Nothing however can solve the
Guyana experience but partition. Now. An example of
the years of racism, murder of political opponents,
bigotry,incompetence,moral decadence, and
bankruptcy,has shown how futile it is to coexist with
the negro.There is no progress. Absolutely
none.Anything built is destroyed.Any business opened
is robbed and proprietors murdered.How long will
Indians continue to suffer before they wake up is a
mystery.Guyana should be partitioned now,or it will
always be more of the same. I am talking about what
happened to the minister,and what took place from
1964-1992. Anyone who has a working brain can see this
track record is a familiar pattern. LOST.A COUNTRY
LOCATED ON THE NORTH COAST OF SOUTH AMERICA.
GUYANA.KILLED BY THE PNC AND ALIGNED CRIMINAL
ELEMENTS.GONE FOREVER.Caesar.


Funeral arrangements for the Minister:

http://www.angelfire.com/punk/madras/Funeral-arrangement.htm

[goodsense]

Scenes of the funeral of Minister Sawh and siblings:

http://www.motorsportsguyana.com/sath.htm

:cry: :cry:

[Braandan]

When is goodsense's funeral?

[goodsense]

You are right to ask when is my funeral because you know your people. They are no better than Negroes and I wasn't wrong when I referred to words like savages and tribes (used by others elsewhere to describe them), reflecting the rawness of black and white (English) cultures. Savageries and tribal people have similar history. They have looted and slaughtered human beings like dogs. Everyday I look out for my turn, we know what stopped them so long that they can only follow and look on. My colleagues have been informed about your animosity like the other English who came and left in other parts of this forum and in the old) and the reasons why. Let's see if you have the same LUND to face them. You have already shown that you don't have the same LUND elsewhere. It seems to droop elsewhere.

Negroes and English have made good living off Indians in particular, Indo-Guyanese. They have taken advantage of our non violence practices in failing to retaliate. I am sure the time is coming for a back-fire.

We don't want savagers and tribal people in this thread. The have nothing to argue or prove. And I am appalled that despite my complaint - http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?t=1732&start=45 - of a series of personal attacks, forbidden in the forum, it is still continuing. It should be obvious that somethign is wrong. I have spent years here writing about my personal experience in Britain which the English tried to hide and distort by doing everything within their power while coming up with a different theory. I am not hearing any mention of the latter anywhere when personal attacks are made by English or descedent of English on this forum. Those attacks all relate to the false theories and manipulation of dicussions even the most serious and sensitive ones (like the recent assasciations of the Indo-Guyanese Minister and reatives) on forum to promote such false theories. This attack is persistent despite my indication of it as unwanted. Moreover, people referring to historic acts of the same, are not attacked in this way, but I am when relating "personal and direct" experiences which are so "recent" in addition to having the same history if not a worse one. I shouldn't be writing about anything to bring awareness, I should've gun down the b******* years ago and I know I would have been justified. And as I said to GOPIO providing good souce, they know about relations with India which they sought to take advantage off on the old forum (and now the new), the details of which are known to all hubbers who have been here fo a reasonable length of time. It's a real shame too to see how the English want to and is determined to continue to take advantage of the split between Indians and Indo-Guyanese people which has caused enough pain and lost of valuable time on this forum.

Before you loiter and lurk here for opportunities in a divided situation, why don't you come to the Indo-Guaynese forum, we will make you a wet noodle in no time that all you would want is to run away. Here is the link to join: http://www.jahajeedesi.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1778

One Tamil woman Punnahai, in a post a few years back in the old forum said we Guyanese scream at the fall of a hat. But it's OK for her and her people to scream all over about Brahmin oppression, let alone a steak of oppression, human rights violations and murders. Then we have to put up with the English on the side line taking further advantage and abusing us. This is why I am mustered up even more to work closely with my own community. We have been one of the most exploited group and for the longest periods to which there is no end. As soon as we rise out of it, we get cut down. We have battled between English and Africans. This is why an Indo-Guyanese will fully support an Indo-Guyanese reagrdless if he or she is North or South Indian.

[goodsense]

Not because the history of this thread shows the negative view of us by people in India which the degree of "silence" in this thread in times of real upsurge, may well confirm, it means you can come here and keep pumping away like this. We know the British is waiting to gain "fringe benefits" of just that - in India and Guyana based on divide and rule. And this is why when I suggested that Indo-Guyanese should go back to India in relieving themselves of the situations in Guyana, other Indo - Guyanese says, no no and set out reasons for partition as the only solution:

Here comes Caesar in response to my proposal of Indo-Guyanese returning to India:

Indians who are westernized like those who left India a long time ago,will not be able to accomodate to the rigid lifestyles and castes
and customs in India.It could be a bad experience.On
another note, Africans have not been an asset to
Guyana. Period. The record is there. Blacks have looted
and destroyed Guyana. They were never an asset in the
post slavery period (remarkably it was Indians who
saved the day for the planter).The blacks, have
since then invented nothing.Instead negroes are a
decades old liability, turning all cities in Guyana
they flock to into ghettos with the crime surge that
comes with it. Will Africans follow suit and migrate to
Africa WHERE THEY BELONG. Africans have been going back
to the motherland since the seventies, but none has
emigrated so far. You and I know why.They encountered a
height of incompetence, moral decay, bungling, and
corruption,(big chief in the jungle)and clumsiness
that is unimaginable that no scale exists that can
measure it. They shuddered to think if they were still
living there what would have been their plight. Plus,if
they emigrate to Rwanda,the Hutus and Tutsis will be
waiting for them with machetes. No no. They ain't
going to no nigger country. They lounge
about looking for something to be offended about, play
the race card when they commit crimes,and finding an
excuse to accuse non whites of racism. There is no
progress living with the negro. Guyana proved that.The
negro got an entire country free, intact, even losing
the elections prior to this gift, and bankrupted it.
Christ,only a black can do something like that. They
are doing the same destruction to Guyana even while
out of office.Blacks do not have the brains to
visualize like a white or Asian.He is limited. In
school they were all dunces. A black can only rule over
other blacks,not other races. The non whites have to do
the thinking for them. I say partition from these
dangerous and incompetent freeloaders now,or stay in
the relationship and accept more of the same. Going
nowhere. Where you get nothing for something. After all
these years. What then is left. "Oh unbeautiful
Guyana, Oh my unlovely native land." Again I say
it. LOST ON THE NORTH COAST OF SOUTH AMERICA, A
BEAUTIFUL COUNTRY. GUYANA KILLED BY BLACKS SINCE
1964. GONE FOREVER.

Caesar Agusus.

[goodsense]

[tscii:127c24f358]Whatever that Braandan was trying to say in "provoking" a situation in the "height of grievance", I hope this further sends the message off:

Guyana has asked Canada for law enforcement help
-- High Commissioner
CANADIAN High Commissioner to Guyana, Mr. Bruno Picard, yesterday said the Guyana Government has requested help from Canada to strengthen the security forces here.

He told the Guyana Chronicle the request was not specifically on the investigations into the assassination of Minister Satyadeow Sawh, and the simultaneous triple murders of his brother, Rajpat Rai Sawh, sister Pulmattie Persaud and security guard Curtis Robertson.

Referring to the Guyana Chronicle article yesterday in which Rejean Beaulieu, a spokesman for Canada’s Department of Foreign Affairs said there was no request of the Canadian government to help in the probe, Picard said while this was true, the official omitted saying that the government had asked for help in strengthening local law enforcement in a general sense.

However, he said while help was not requested of the Canadians to specifically deal with the Saturday morning slayings at LBI, East Coast Demerara, help was offered to the Guyana Police Force.

Minister Sawh and the others were executed by an armed gang just after they had returned from an outing.

His brother and sister slain were Canadian citizens who were home for the one year death anniversary ceremony for their mother.

***********
I don't live in Guyana or plan to visit there in the near future, but should there be attacks on my person, I am sure the the Canadian Enforcement bodies will be on my side. I am a Canadian Citizen and has been for about 20 years and I am also a responsible citizen. So questioning when will be my funeral..........when I will be killed.........or expressing your desire for me to be killed soon.........

A brave woman never fears death and she will die for the right cause.



[/tscii:127c24f358]

[goodsense]

Well, incase you were wondering why no response here as yet from the parties whose attention this and related threads were drawn to, it's just that people are busy elsewhere with other issues. Nevertheless, I have had response from them on the matter. These responses were quite "explosive" I have to say and for the said reason, I would not post them here. The other reason why I wouldn't post them here is because I came a long way on this forum and I don't want to go back to square one where most of what I said were only re-affirmed in addition to other views put forward as to the cause of certain problems and who is clearly responsible.

However, I have those responses and will post them should the need arise and of course I will only do so with the writer's permission.

You should also know that I was personally advised on what steps to take.

[goodsense]

[tscii:a2700ef3c1]
"The journey is an exciting one, which was started by ancestors of yours and which will be continued by your descendants. This journey was started just about 100 years ago, when unsuspecting “gems in the rough” were mined from their distant lands and which today shine brightly in you, polished gems...."

http://www.panoramatv.ca/message/message.htm[/tscii:a2700ef3c1]

[crazy]

Why this post after such a long time? :)

[goodsense]

Not sure how to respond, but all I can say is that I found some personal conviction in the statements. :wink: :)

[Lambretta]

Hey GS,
How u doing? :)

[goodsense]

Hi good old Lamby :D very busy with life while keeping a low profile. :) Hope all is well with you.

[crazy]

Not sure how to respond, but all I can say is that I found some personal conviction in the statements. :wink: :)

anyway welcome back, gs akka :)
How r u?

[goodsense]

Crazy, thanks for welcoming me back to forum. But I should warn; I still would not be able to frequent this forum as I use to due to various commitments. All is well with me (thank God for this ) and I hope the same for you. :thumbsup:

[goodsense]

Deleted by GS

[blahblah]

You are right to ask when is my funeral because you know your people. They are no better than Negroes .

Nonsense can have no sense!

This is racism at the worst.If you want to talk about Gayanese Indians or anyone else you will do better to use decent language about others.

"No better than Negroes" ?

I remember somebody threatening to take me to court for making such remarks.Why are Negroes worse than you?

[goodsense]

You are obviously ignorant of the problems - high degrees of murders and robbery that caused thousands to leave the country since the 1960s and it has gotten no better - the Indians have been facing for decades in Guyana. Any way your responses has always been vile and I have ignored or refused to discuss with people like you for sometime now. Many Guyanese Indians have perused this thread and made their comments about people like you. Only I was decent enough not to publish them all. Of the umpteen responses, I posted only one in another thread. I can still do it, but I don't think you will ever worth my time and moreover, I still have that bitter taste in mouth. Perhaps other hubbers who have those responses from other Guyanese Indians can shed some light.

I guess the credibility of the Canadian state is also at stake here for taking in so many Indo Guyanese who ran for their lives where it is held that they are no better than the Negroes in Guyana. :?:

[blahblah]

Missie,I do understand that you have some complaints,but is it fair enough to blame it on us? I never knew that your country is part of my little planet and there are some people called Guyanese! Can you blame me for this?

As you were not aware of my existence ,I have every right not to be aware of the existence of Urme alias nonsense, the most beautiful country caled Guyana and its most beautiful people!

Best wishes

Blahblah! :D

By the way,how is your GOPIO doing?

[goodsense]

Watch your misquotes and even this is no justification for your prior statement(s). It's strange that people don't remember the reasons why certain quotes are made. Those reasons can be found not only in this thread but in others. There were actual harassment about ugliness.

It's amazing when one ground of attack fails another is found. What you did in your last two posts just confirms the point (posted in other threads in this section a few months back when he tried to convince me to leave the forum) made by Caesar (another Indo-Guyanese) about "a perpetual position". This is what I get after my brief return.

I would also suggest that you find out why Englishmen are so crazy about Indo-Guyanese females. How many of us do you know anyway? Many of you would have seen my family picts. I can only give/provide what's available to me:

http://www.panoramatv.ca/panorama/panorama.php?video=013%20Cookie%20Khan%20%28Sept%2 009%29/video.wmv

I am sure you are coming to the end of your day. Well, I am just sarting mine. :angry2:

[crazy]

Crazy, thanks for welcoming me back to forum. But I should warn; I still would not be able to frequent this forum as I use to due to various commitments. All is well with me (thank God for this ) and I hope the same for you. :thumbsup:
:)

[Braandan]

[quote="goodsense"]You are obviously ignorant of the problems - quote]


Please read using Vadivelu style:

"aahaa.. vanduttaayaaa.. vanduttaayaaa.. engeyo poyi
tholanjaa nnu nenachirunthe ippo thirumbi vanduttaayaa vanduttaayyaa..."

[blahblah]

Godsent Goodsense,

Probably it is my failure that I can't understand your ideas.Yet isn't it your own responsibility to let us know what is happening in your part of the world? Can you blame ethnic Indians for your plight?Isn't it silly to think that the whole world revolves around you?

Love

Blahblah.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I still want to hear about that supreme authority called GOPIO.

[Braandan]

Blahblah,
I had been repeating this (what you said in your post) right from year 2002, after taking pity on her story. Almost for the past 4 years she has been repeating the same thing all over the hub. No amount of pity can move this lady. She is just plain paranoid. She refuses psychiatric treatment too.

VaTTinu oru athirilla..

[goodsense]

Mountain out of a mould. Some people just wait for the opportunity as I had suspected. I was spot on. It may have been best for me not to attempt to clarify what was meant in that quotation and let you stay with your misinterpretation and flies would not have had the opportunity to come and stick themselves. I shall take that approach now regardless what anyone is thinking. Why allow yourself to be enslaved by people who are lazy (don't want to do the reading in the threads) and want you to do their work, just malicious or have below average intelligence. :x :o

Some people just don't get the message that their posts to me are unwanted - I know the motive and prove it all the time - these malicious ... The question is whether I should be left to be called racist against Negroes or explain what was going through my mind when I made that statement, specially when people only wnat to take a bit out fo the whole picture to create useless arguments and waste time. How many more times do I have to show that they are unfounded. There is a long history here.

Clearly, when I made that statement I was thinking about the capabilities of English people based on the experiences I have had with them known to and witnessed by other ethnic groups - the English I had troubles with can cause my funeral and not the Negroes as one hubber was suggesting. Then the English would make it look like the Negroes are responsible. Those who know/have full details of what I went through and with the investigations on and that to be completed, are worried about my future and have been warning me to get surveillance wherever I live etc. to protect myself against those English B******* . Are all these people advising me, Paranoid? I am in good hands and one day the results of investigations in place will be very public. Hopefully sooner than later. This hub will be a minor pace for it. Then certain some people here would be limited in their malicious purpose and be ashamed of themselves at last.

I am sure there are bright people on this forum who can see the developments of these post and make their own assessments as to the objective of some people here and the merits of their posts, however silent such people may appear. My community watchs too and so are those Englishpeople who were in old hub, the mere reason for the pressure to clarify. But no need anymore. After all, what advice can I have from an insensitive Englishman in my circumstances, only seeking to defend his fellow English. He is well aware of my repulsiveness towards him, yet he insists, imposes and forces himself on me. :evil:

[goodsense]

No need to respond to me here. Don't see any point to come here. Wouldn't even be logging in until I come to post the results even if it takes a year. This will settle many things. I would rather spend my little spare time doing fun things and there are lots. Even when I am bored and feel alone, I will refrain from coming here. :poke:

[Shekhar]

I thought goodsense is crazy. But crazy invites goodsense. This is the paradox. They are different yet same. :lol: :lol:

[Roshan]

I thought goodsense is crazy. But crazy invites goodsense. This is the paradox. They are different yet same. :lol: :lol:

:rotfl: :rotfl:

[crazy]

I thought goodsense is crazy. But crazy invites goodsense. This is the paradox. They are different yet same. :lol: :lol:

what?

[skanthan]

Goodsense and crazy? irandukkum orE atthamaa(They are the same)? No. They are different people alltogether.

[skanthan]

I thought goodsense is crazy. But crazy invites goodsense. This is the paradox. They are different yet same. :lol: :lol:

:rotfl: :rotfl:

Roshan,

How can they both be the same when one is in India and the other is in Toronto??? :shock: :lol:

[Lambretta]

Skan,
turns out ur yet to get used to Shekhar's wit! :P :lol:

[skanthan]

Skan,
turns out ur yet to get used to Shekhar's wit! :P :lol:

:lol2:

[crazy]

Goodsense and crazy? irandukkum orE atthamaa(They are the same)? No. They are different people alltogether.

vanakkam skanthan,
nalama irukkeengala?
btw naan india'la illai norwayil irukken :)

[skanthan]

crazy,

naan nalla irukkEn! Are you from Sri Lanka?

If goodsense is who I think she is, I have known of her since late 2002 and had communications with her via old FH and the phone for over a year. She seems very sensable. She may have strong feelings about the British due to all that crap that happened to her while in England, but, otherwise, she is a very nice lady.

Goodsense (aka Urmila ???)

Happy Navaratri!!! :D

[crazy]

crazy,

naan nalla irukkEn! Are you from Sri Lanka?

If goodsense is who I think she is, I have known of her since late 2002 and had communications with her via old FH and the phone for over a year. She seems very sensable. She may have strong feelings about the British due to all that crap that happened to her while in England, but, otherwise, she is a very nice lady.

Goodsense (aka Urmila ???)

Happy Navaratri!!! :D

iam from tamil eelam :)
i dont know that much about goodsense akka, but she is good to me :)

Navarathiri vaazhthukkal! (aama eppo navarathiri)

[Shekhar]

Crazy and Skanthan.. a unique minority group with a strength two. I don't think there can be a thrid one in the group in the FH. Or should we count the agony aunt also in the group?!! (Btw where is she?) :roll: :wink:

[crazy]

Crazy and Skanthan.. a unique minority group with a strength two. I don't think there can be a thrid one in the group in the FH. Or should we count the agony aunt also in the group?!! (Btw where is she?) :roll: :wink:

sorry, i dont get it?
which group, who is minority here? :roll:

[blahblah]

Crazy and Skanthan.. a unique minority group with a strength two. I don't think there can be a thrid one in the group in the FH. Or should we count the agony aunt also in the group?!! (Btw where is she?) :roll: :wink:

:lol2: :lol2:

Pal,you will end up converting a minority into a majority soon. :cry3: :cry3: :frightened:

[skanthan]

Crazy and Skanthan.. a unique minority group with a strength two. I don't think there can be a thrid one in the group in the FH. Or should we count the agony aunt also in the group?!! (Btw where is she?) :roll: :wink:

Huh???


Navarathiri vaazhththukkaL

navaraatthiri vaazhtthukkaL, crazy et al.

I plan on doing my Navaratri pooja at my place. I might go to the temple one of the days, but, dunno.

[crazy]

navaraatthiri vaazhtthukkaL, crazy et al.

I plan on doing my Navaratri pooja at my place. I might go to the temple one of the days, but, dunno.

:) nandru!

[goodsense]

[tscii:ecd5e0fdaa]Yea! I will not come as “goodsense” anymore. Shouldn't have let people chosen my ID. How about “sunshine” instead? :D :oops:

[/tscii:ecd5e0fdaa]

[goodsense]

No, I think my young/youthful face more looks like "sunshine" (although about two months ago one man told me my face looks like a Diva). For those who have missed the one I just had in my avatar, tough. This is the transition to my new ID which will be either sunshine or Diva :wink:

[blahblah]

No, I think my young/youthful face more looks like "sunshine" (although about two months ago one man told me my face looks like a Diva). For those who have missed the one I just had in my avatar, tough. This is the transition to my new ID which will be either sunshine or Diva :wink:

Tell me,if I pay your flight charges,can you come to Pune and kick my a** for a few minutes? I meet people like you and that 'beautiful' boy who was here some time back and yet find time to communicate with you guys,again and again!

:cry3: :oops2:

By the way,

I look like Bruce Lee! Trying to put on some weight.

Very unfortunate that I am married.It is virtually impossible for me to convince my wife about beautiful,youthful faces.

Somebodyelse interested?

Surely,Guyanese Indians are the most beautiful people in the world.

[goodsense]

[tscii:20a6b90fb5]Since you have reverted to old arguments, which hold no water, I have to say our conscience must bother us after we have been indulged in low petty plays, refusing to accept reason and logic. How many people have drastically deviated from their natural state and in what circumstances and how often has this been a permanent change and why? This is the reality.

That man (Moses Nagamoothu) you are referring who went to India some time ago and returned with complaints, who also write several articles I posted n this forum, is a cabinet minister in Guyana. I am sure you didn't realize that.

Any body interested in my youthful face? Well the man who told me a few months ago my face (present) looks like a Deva is a top flying ... from my own community, highly spiritual... So there you go. Sorry you were so bothered. :wink: For God sake, it is all men who called me these names (shunshine, Deva, pretty woman, pretty cute...). Why can't I adopt the one I was called by, by my own country man (although he made many other positive comments about me). There was nothing more to it like what you seemed to have been thinking.

When we can’t win we tend to remember only what we want, followed my making a series of false statements. That is why I had taken the time to summarize the history and made references to the experiences of others even when people thought I was crazy without leaving any room for any doubts or uncertainty, especially when there is no basis and in your case where you have been proven wrong so many times, yet you forthrightly continue to make wild statements and accusations. Your wife is right. She probably knows there is no justification for the permanency in your position. I don’t have to follow up with people like you … writing for a particular audience likely to buy in and making statements that can’t be substantiated. I would suggest that before you go on raving and ranting to fool certain people, you admit your mistakes and make it an example to others. If you continue this way, I will continue to pull you apart, that is if I have the time and think it is worth my while. Otherwise, you are to simply be ignored. I have better things to do. Or should I just post some of the things Caesar sent me that confirms his opinion about the behavior of people like you and the reasons for it based on his own experiences. Boy he was ever so right. I don’t think this is something the mods would like. So see you as Deva in a year’s time and good luck in trying to put some weight on. Surely, one's man's meat is another man's poison. But it's good to have the ability to fluctuate when times are less stressful and I hope weight is not the issue or the be it all that makes the difference for all of us.

I hope the mods take note of what I see as continued personal attacks (however indirect). As a woman of above average sophistication (at least I have been told by people in person), I feel I have been accommodating and tolerant for too long.

Deva [/tscii:20a6b90fb5]

[Shekhar]

No, I think my young/youthful face more looks like "sunshine" (although about two months ago one man told me my face looks like a Diva). For those who have missed the one I just had in my avatar, tough. This is the transition to my new ID which will be either sunshine or Diva :wink:

Tell me,if I pay your flight charges,can you come to Pune and kick my a** for a few minutes? I meet people like you and that 'beautiful' boy who was here some time back and yet find time to communicate with you guys,again and again!

:cry3: :oops2:

By the way,

I look like Bruce Lee! Trying to put on some weight.

Very unfortunate that I am married.It is virtually impossible for me to convince my wife about beautiful,youthful faces.

Somebodyelse interested?

Surely,Guyanese Indians are the most beautiful people in the world.

This one takes the cake buddy!!! :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[goodsense]

As far as no one reads the rest (which includes beginning to end) and as far as one is limited (whether purposely or not) to interpretation. Parties of inchoate offenses never feel any different to the crime committed. And as they say, ignorance is no excuse for things we do and say sometimes. One must also be insightful to understand fully, what's behind all this and to have such insights, one needed to be on forum for a while - then the missing links and questions to bring forth a close scrutiny would be understood. None of this is meant to be an insult, but facts.

Any way got to stick to my words, off for a year.

Deva

[VENKIRAJA]

my dad is building a stadium there!(he's also a member of this hub:krk64in)i'll ask him to post here.

[goodsense]

[tscii:528bbadf83]VENKIRAJA,

I came to edit my post to add one further statement and saw yours. You need to know that there are more Guyanese Indians out of the country than in and the ones there are poor, deprived, downtrodden people who can't find a way out. So, it will be difficult. There are good examples of good-looking people looking ugly for this reason even when they look fat. Fat people don't necessarily have good diets and their life styles are usually not good, all the reasons for their ugly appearances. And did you see what Saddam Hussain looked like before and after he was found in that hole and did you see him after that in court?

What I wanted to add, is that the person who told me that a study was done and Indian Guyanese females were held to be the most beautiful, is the same man who followed me from the newspaper last year (see my thread - why women stay alone, in this section). He did mention the name of person(s) who conducted the test, but to be honest I can't remember. And I don't have contact with this man anymore nor would I want to make contact just for that information. In case some of you don't know, this is something he told me on the phone and only the police have access to phone (at least land line) conversations which are recorded for some ten years period. Hopefully, one day someone would find the reference for the test and be brave enough to post it here and hopefully, the tester(s) can be contacted and interrogated, directly. :) :lol:

Why worry about who is ugly and who is beautiful, physically? Whether we are born ugly or beautiful and had our beauty tampered or disfigured with, it can be fixed. What we can’t fix is our intellectual and verbal ugliness, which limits us with the cards we play with. Unfortunately, some of us have been born with all three aspects of ugliness. :argue: :sigh2: [/tscii:528bbadf83]

[blahblah]

I would like this thread to continue.It provided much needed relaxation and understanding of issues which concern our fellow human beings.

It was quite interesting to know about the unknown evil; the downtrodden,the insulted,the helpless who are deprived of dignity and a chance to make a difference in real life.It was good to know that GOPIO and other organisations are working with the cops and some likeminded, serious citizens for a decade for this solemn cause.

I do not forget the noble men and women who supported this cause in the old hub either.I salute them!

Though we have our differences on such issues,I hope this thread continues.

These are battle fields which are unknown to [most of] us and one day equality and social justice will win and the kings of power will be thrown out of power. I believe we might be able to take pride in our effort on a latter day.

Hats off to Urme! :)

[goodsense]

http://www.panoramatv.ca/panorama/panorama.php?video=045%20Panorama%20Week%20in%20Re view%20Part%202%20%28Nov%2011%29/video.wmv

" Guyana has a special place in the heart of India" :o

So, Venkeraja I guess your dad will soon be coming home, or has he done so already?

[Madurai Veeran]

Hello Urmila,

Do you remember an old friend who goes by the handle Madurai Veeran?

You will not see much of me here. I have retired from Forum Hub.

Best wishes
Madurai Veeran

[goodsense]

Hi Madurai,

Long time no see. Of course I remember you. I know you are extremely busy. Aren't we all. My problem is addiction more than anything else. After the winter, I am planning to change my life style a bit. Once I get someone to relief me from some of my work, I will be spending less time in an office situation with less access to computers. Sometimes I feel I am not being fair to myself spending so much time on forum. But I treat it as part of my social activities while passing through a certain phase. May be afterall, it's not as bad as I think.

Do take care and come around when you can.

[skanthan]

Hello Urmila,

Do you remember an old friend who goes by the handle Madurai Veeran?

You will not see much of me here. I have retired from Forum Hub.

Best wishes
Madurai Veeran

Hello, Madurai Veeran! How are you? :)

[Shekhar]

My problem is addiction more than anything else.

That's what I suspected !! :wink: :D

[goodsense]

I think I know in what sense you mean. Got ya. :wink: :) You must have been following my other posts. Good. :)

[goodsense]

Doctor robbed in city - Dr. Balwant Singh, a CITY medical doctor was robbed while attending to patients in his clinic.

http://mere-pyaar.tripod.com/Doctor-robbed-Georgetown.html

He studied in Bangalore-India.

http://www.guyanamedicalassociation.org/BalwantSinghCS.html

[skanthan]

Namaste, Goodsense! Happy new year!

[Braandan]

Once I get someone to relief me from some of my work, I will be spending less time in an office situation with less access to computers. .


Everyone's dream..but you must be ready to pay to that somebody who relieves you from the work..nobody does work freely..

[goodsense]

Happy new year to you too Skanthavelu.

Well for sure you wouldn't see me in heavy arguments or any argument like before on certain issues in this thread. I have enough on my plate away from hub. :lol: You will come to know more one day. :fishgrin:

[goodsense]

Continued Violence and Robberies faced by People of Indian Origin:

1. http://mere-pyaar.tripod.com/Thieves-clean-store.html
Tuesday, January 9th 2007
Thieves clean out newly-opened store and escape with $4.5M in loot.

2. http://mere-pyaar.tripod.com/Surujdai-Singh.html
Tuesday, January 9th 2007
Two gun-toting bicycle bandits robbed and beat Surujdai Singh, a 55-year-old female shopkeeper

3. http://mere-pyaar.tripod.com/Doctor-robbed-Georgetown.html
Sunday, January 07, 2007
Dr. Balwant Singh, India trained medical doctor was robbed while attending to a female patient in his clinic in Georgetown.

4. Travel Advice - US State Department.
The murder and bugger rates in Guyana are three times higher than in the United States. We advise you to exercise a high degree of caution in Guyana because of the risk of serious criminal activity.

Examples:
http://azimallie.tripod.com/Afro-Guyanese-bandit1.htm
Chain snatchers
http://jahajis.150m.com/Brazilian-buggery-charges.htm
Buggermen
Brazilian back on carnal knowledge, buggery charges

Asgarallie

[goodsense]

http://mere-pyaar.tripod.com/Andrew-Kissoon-dead.html

To be added to the fast moving list.

[goodsense]

For those who wondered about trhe outcome of my efforts so far in seeking justice against crimes and other violations committed against me in Britain which cintinued in Canada after my return. Here is an update put together by someone following (including what I have been posting on this forum in relation to it) my progress closely:

Hi Ormila, "like I said, all colleges and universities are masters at covering up crime. It is their life and reputation they want to protect, and they will go all out to obliterate you. Even overseas.Many of the deans or chancellors are in lodges or are freemasons. A place where many top professionals are inducted into. Here in this brotherhood, deals are made, businesses passed to one another, contracts steered or shifted this way and that to members, loyalties are affirmed, and a way to evade the law and doge scandals is hatched and carried out. Once again, this is a part of what you might be up against. But keep trying even if it takes a lifetime. You will get justice and they will be exposed. They know they will have to compensate you in the millions and they would also lose students, so it's easier to invest in stiffling you. For you it should be all fail and it could go a far way".

Caesar Agustus

This is why they patrol my street frequently if not in vehicles, by foot at each corner of the streets and the police is still blind after so many years of such daily activities. I wonder if we are still in a Colony answerable to Britain? Perhaps indeed we don't have separate governing and jurisdiction. :wink: :wink: I am sure time will catch up with them all. :evil:

[goodsense]

To clear the air a bit:

http://members.lycos.co.uk/jahajis/In-India-149-n-o.htm

[goodsense]

"A LETTER writer, on a recent trip to Guyana, thought that he was in an African country. He also said he observed that the vast majority of people in the security forces and various government departments seemed to reinforce his view that he was in an African country". :lol: :lol: :lol:
http://ek-pardes1.tripod.com/African_country-Guyana.htm

I recently learned that many whites in authority here in Canada whose attention were drawn to this thread, are making "mokery" of Indo-Guyanese. Imagine what I face as a major writer of "facts" in this thread. :rant: The comment was made that we Indo-Guyanese feel that the world owes us something. Now they seems to want to collide with the Indians from India based on what is written here. Actually, they have been enjoying some of the comments of the Indians from India as way of diverting attention. How cheap. I am not afraid or worried about any of it. It wouldn't stop me from writing and exposing and I am not a bit embarrassed to write about their negative comments because I know it's all false and unwarranted. They would have done exactly the same if in my or our position. :wink: This is why too, Indo-Guyanese need to bond together even stronger and of course any loop-hole (when examined carefully, we know who are the cause) available as there always is any race or creed, would be readily taken advantage of by these unfit people, any way.

These comments are made as an easy way out when they find it difficult to deal with a problem for which they are the "indirect" cause of. It's confrontational.

It will take white trashes to do that anyway. So who cares and may be it's their own shortcomings in not reading the posts in other threads. A recent one:
http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?t=9084&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

Or it could be their are just ashamed and don't want to face the truth. It certainly would not bring them happiness or comfortable feelings. However true that may be (that they are mocking), it's the whites observation here, at least in one area.

Sometimes I think too this offence stems from the similarity in life style - pork and beef eating .. and living above their means, then they go after what belongs to the Indian and would take everything if they get the chance. :wink:

[goodsense]

[tscii:2bc707e9f1]Sometimes we think we are or made to think that we are alone in thoughts (when they are manipulated and we are punished for them as records known to some would reveal like many other things on thsi forum during my time on it), but no.

" a young woman’s search for her roots in India..the film follows her journey as she searches three continents to uncover the reasons behind her family’s removal from their native India, during British imperial rule and later, her parents’ migration out of their birth country, Guyana".


http://members.lycos.co.uk/mohdasgar/Phagwah-Mela-07.htm

Click on - Mere Pyaar, then on - Once-More-Removed

http://members.lycos.co.uk/mohdasgar/Indentureship-IAC.html[/tscii:2bc707e9f1]

[goodsense]

More of Shundell Prasad:

http://www.friendster.com/photos/1820715/377216447/6995#pic=3772164476995

http://www.angelfire.com/blog/rampur/India-roots-Shundell.htm

'Once more removed'

The story of a young Guyanese woman's search for her past

i) Image Guyanese-born Shundell Prasad in Toronto recently. First I though she was an Indian National.

ii) Searching for the 'shattered links'.

She was able to do it by living in democratic country and saving her earnings, not like in Guyana.

Asgar.

http://www.hinduonnet.com/2006/01/11/stories/2006011104340200.htm

***************
"...Indeed, the people of Indian origin who have come to America from Guyana, Trinidad and Suriname are the hidden Hindus of America. While the Hindus from India are the focus of media stories on religion, the people of Indian origin from West Indies are often overlooked. Yet this community is even more diehard and staunch in its Hindu beliefs than Indians from the motherland.."

"If you have to grade the Guyanese for the upkeep of the Hindu religion on a scale of one to ten, they will get 9.5."

http://www.hinduismtoday.com/archives/1995/8/1995-8-02.shtml

What have I been saying all along?

This link can be reached by clicking on the first link above of this post - under new york.

[crazy]

:)

[goodsense]

And these are the Canadian born from Guyanese parents. Never mind all the derogatory things people have been writing about us as this thread relating to others, bears witness to. :D

http://www.panoramatv.ca/panorama/panorama.php?video=060%20Pravachan%20-%20Pt.%20Jairam%20%28part%201%29%20%28Mar%2031%29/video.wmv

[goodsense]

What is it that Britian still want from Guyana? All I can think of and feel when I see the faces of these people, is Terror and Trauma and I know it will be like this until the end of times.


http://www.angelfire.com/film/rampur/Prince-Andrew-images.htm

The person who forwarded me this states: "Guyana was a former British colony and became an independent nation on Thursday, 26 May 1966. Some of us were born during British rule". :roll:

[goodsense]

DAVID DABYDEEN BIOGRAPHY

Critic, writer and novelist David Dabydeen was born in 1955 in Berbice, Guyana, moving to England with his parents in 1969. He read English at Cambridge University, gained a doctorate at University College London in 1982, and was awarded a research fellowship at Wolfson College, Oxford. David Dabydeen is Director of the Centre for Caribbean Studies and Professor at the Centre for British Comparative Cultural Studies at the University of Warwick. He is also Guyana's Ambassador-at-Large and a member of UNESCO's Executive Board. In 2001 he wrote and presented The Forgotten Colony, a BBC Radio 4 programme exploring the history of Guyana. He is the author of four novels, three collections of poetry and several works of non-fiction and criticism. His first book, Slave Song (1984), a collection of poetry, won the Commonwealth Poetry Prize and the Quiller-Couch Prize. A new collection, Turner, was published in 2002. His first novel, The Intended (1991), the story of a young Asian student abandoned in London by his father, won the Guyana Prize for Literature. Disappearance (1993) centres on a young Guyanese engineer working on the south coast of England who lodges with an elderly woman. The Counting House (1996) is set at the end of the nineteenth century and narrates the experiences of an Indian couple whose hopes of a new life in colonial Guyana end in tragedy. The story explores historical tensions between indentured Indian workers and Guyanese of African descent. His most recent novel, A Harlot's Progress (1999), is based on a series of pictures painted by William Hogarth in 1732 and develops the story of Hogarth's black slave boy. Through the character of Mungo, Dabydeen challenges traditional cultural representations of the slave.
David Dabydeen's latest books are Our Lady of Demerara (2004) and Slave Song (2005). In 2007, he was awarded the Hind Rattan (Jewel of India) Award for his outstanding contribution to literature and the intellectual life of the Indian diaspora.

BIBLIOGRAPHY
Slave Song Dangaroo, 1984 Caribbean Literature: A Teacher's Handbook Heinemann Educational, 1985
The Black Presence in English Literature (editor) Manchester University Press, 1985
A Reader's Guide to West Indian and Black British Literature (with Nana Wilson-Tagoe) Hansib/University of Warwick Centre for Caribbean Studies, 1987
Hogarth's Blacks: Images of Blacks in 18th-Century English Art Manchester University Press, 1987
India in the Caribbean (editor with Brinsley Samaroo) Hansib, 1987 Coolie Odyssey Hansib, 1988
Handbook for Teaching Caribbean Literature Heinemann Educational, 1988 Black Writers in Britain 1760-1890 (editor with Paul Edwards) Edinburgh University Press, 1991
The Intended Secker & Warburg, 1991 Disappearance Secker & Warburg, 1993 Turner: New and Selected Poems Cape, 1994
Across the Dark Waters: Ethnicity and Indian Identity in the Caribbean Macmillan, 1996
The Counting House Cape, 1996
A Harlot's Progress Cape, 1999
No Island is an Island: Selected Speeches of Sir Shridath Ramphal (editor with John Gilmore) Macmillan, 2000 Turner Peepal Tree Press, 2002
Our Lady of Demerera Dido Press, 2004 Slave Song Peepal Tree Press, 2005 The Oxford Companion to Black British History (editor with John Gilmore) Oxford University Press, 2007

[goodsense]

Info to pass on:

DIASPORA CULTURAL RESOURCE CENTER

INDIRA GANDHI NATIONAL CENTER FOR THE ARTS

Cordially invites you for an interactive session with Prof. David Dabydeen University of Warwick, UK, and Ambassador to UNESCO for Guyana on Opportunities available for Scholars and students to study and research at University of Warwick, U.K.

Followed by a discussion on the Asian Diaspora.

at

Lecture Hall

No.5, Dr. Rajendra Prasad Road
(Entry from Mansigh Road)

on

12 APRIL 2007 AT 4:00 PM

For details contact

SURESH KUMAR PILLAI
CV MESS, JANPATH, NEW DELHI 110001
Phone :011 23386345 Mobile: 9910357997
Email: diaspora@ignca.nic.in
www.ignca.nic.in

****************
Certainly more of Shundell here too.

www.ignca.nic.in
http://www.ignca.nic.in/images/idexhib/p007/index.htm

[goodsense]

VERY VERY SAD.

http://www.guyanapalace.com/news/news/news_item.asp?NewsID=3061

Please ignore the vulgar write - ups. There are all sorts out there and we just can't avoid them. :oops:

[goodsense]

Since the original of this ID I had here for close to two years as avatar photo was stolen (sometime within the last few months), I think I should leave this copy here. It's not a good quality like the last since it was taken from a printed copy, but better than nothing. The scanned copy on hard-drive can't be accessed. All of a sudden I can't get pass the desktop page. Nothing from old desk top can be accessed. I had to install a new hard drive a few weeks ago. The guy from Guyana who assisted me in this new installation and witnessed the problems, saw the orginal pictures etc. feels threatened for his personal safety. He complained to me when he informed me of certain observations around and where he resides.

I am not suppose to have any proof of what I was like before the fact and years after my return to Canada which will reveal damage done in UK and its impact.

The original of this also stolen:

http://ormila.canadianwebs.com/youth-gyal-ormila.htm

But they should know I have other photos they couldn't lay hands of which shows the truth despite their attempts to cover it up:

http://taramani.larka.tripod.com/Ormila-Essq1.htm
http://jahajis.zoomshare.com/files/Ormila-2-Bp.htm

All this is happening because of the book I am writing about my experiences in Britain and some of these photos are used in my background chapter:

http://lawschoolsandthecourtsofengland.blogspot.com/

This is what have them so wild to continue criminal activities in Britain, all the way in Canada to burgle and steal from me.

The little time I get, I spend it on my book and frequently update the blogger.

[goodsense]

Actually, I would prefer the admins to now close this account. Many of my post under this ID were distorted by a third party log in. Could have been when burgled in the last few months and passwords and other log in information for other sites, were accessed etc.

I don't think I have any need to come back here. I am now here on this hub under ID - *Urmila*.

NB. *Urmila* was selected as ID not because I think I am star over any one else here. I just wanted to use th ID Urmila, but it was already taken. I am actually thinking of officially changing the spelling of my real first name that starts with an "O" instead of "U".

[*Urmila*]

Diwali 2007 celebrations:

http://good-times.webshots.com/album/561374042eWDsYD

http://community.webshots.com/slideshow/102486081;jsessionid=abcqodm2OPENbcLBEWNyr?user=1

Videos

[crazy]

nice pic :)

do u really celebrate deepavali this way?

[Lambretta]

Hey nics pics. GS!

Although...um, jus IMHO this pic. woulda looked better with a classic convertible car in it:

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2779916550102486081nqqNwj

:P :)

[*Urmila*]

Yes, Crazy. It's like the old days in Guyana with each Diety on a motorcade. They were sent to me from Guyana today. It's nice to see this because I had such a crappy Diwali. Didn't make it to any concert, dinner or temple.

The concerts are really nice. I usually get invitation from different temples and they all have their unique Diwali shows. You go and you can be assured of lots of laughs etc. It's amazing the time they spend in preparing for Diwali concerts given the details and quality of work in the costumes etc.

We have parades here in Toronto too when city hall is lit up on Diwali night, but I never went, it's too cold to walk in parade or to stand outside and watch.

*********

Shy pie,

You are right, an open convertible vehicle would look nicer. Me too had a smile on my face as I watched some of them. The pics are nice, aren't they. :)

Why are you still referring to me as "GS" after I changed my ID, especially when you are the one who recently reminded me to and I obeyed? :wink: :D

[crazy]

so cool, akka :)
we dont celebrate like that ....here ..or i know for sure we dont have parade and all ..

[*Urmila*]

More Diwali pics.:

Guyana:

http://taramani.larka.angelfire.com/Diwali-2007-im.htm

Canada:

http://www.insidevandy.com/drupal/node/5423

[Braandan]

Welcome Urmila, Long time no see...Belated Happy Diwali

[Lambretta]

Shy pie
Say what??!! :shock: :roll:
Is tat like, pie in the sky......geez I hope I dont get into rhymes now! Therez a certain hubber here who got bugged enough by me wit tat! :P :lol:


You are right,an open convertible vehicle would look nicer. Me too had a smile on my face as I watched some of them. The pics are nice, aren't they. :)
They sure r......btw I said a CLASSIC (ie., like 50s/60s) covertible, not just any convertible...I donno bout the scene there in guyana but here until recently we had classic 60s cars used on hire for wedding processions......inc. certain 60s American chevys...unfortunately they were bought by broke guys who were really stingy on them so devirginised them with diesel engines & other cheap mods (on not finding spares cheap/easy enough!), eventually selling them off for scrap when the cars (terminally) died with much use & abuse....! :x :(


Why are you still referring to me as "GS" after I changed my ID, especially when you are the one who recently reminded me to and I obeyed? :wink: :D
Oopsity oops...!! :P :lol:
Sorry.....forgot! 'was used to callin u by ur old ID so....:)

[Lambretta]

- repeat-a! -

[*Urmila*]

Braandan wrote:


Long time no see...Belated Happy Diwali

Well I am busy in many other places. Same to you - Happy belated Diwali.

Will be taking off soon again for sometime.