Bharathwaj, Autograph & related discussion

[vijayr]

Autograph should have been nominated for the most overrated album of the year. A thoroughly unimpressive and unimaginative album in all aspects. Ovvoru pookaLume would have sounded jaded even in the mid-80s when we had heard the likes of "naan oru sindhu" etc. from Chithra. Gnayaabagam varudhe - the situation in the film combined with the picturization made it somewhat appealing. The song itself as a standalone was as pedestrian as it gets. Some of these guys like Bharadwaj should take some crash courses from MSV on how to set tunes. His "apple peNNE nee yaaro" is another nursery rhyme

[Querida]

that song: "apple peNNE nee yaaro" is one of the most annoying songs i have ever heard!

[rajdes]

vijay, well said. I can see where that terrible annoyance to Autograph is coming from, havign felt the same irritation every time I happen to stumble across the dud ovvoru pookkalume even for a fleeting moment while surfing channels. Infact, Chitra is the only saving grace of the song and perhaps deserves some credit for salvaging something out of the song.

It is when you see the likes of BWj, YSR and SAR succeed commercially that you feel pangs for someone like Karthik Raja, now dragged down to the level of doing duds like Neranja Manasu(and yet managing to give a decent Paarthu Po).

Bharadwaj is an over-rated,undeserving MD, though he had his moments in Poo Veli(oru poo ezhudhum) But when we can question IR for a odd karagattakari after 25 years of gems, one poo veli should not give the likes of Bharadwaj licence to inflict miseries upon miseries on us.

[Renault]

As a matter of fact, Ovvoru Pookkalumey is an unnoticed copy of "Rottora Paatu sathham keekudha" from En Mana Vaanil by Ilayaraja.

The latter song, not many would be knowing.

[NagaS]

Karthik Raja, now dragged down to the level of doing duds

Yep - its sad ... now KR is doing lot of ADs I heard, the lates pothys ad for 'kaaviyak kaathal pattu' is by him


Bharadwaj is an over-rated,undeserving MD

I agree with you, Almost all his albums had copied songs / repeat of his own tunes etc., I didn't like Autograph for any of its songs / BGM ... (BGM was horrible to say the least, Sabesh - Murali literally killed whatever emotions cheran filled in the movie by strange sounds and fancy hummings, that sound so alien ...)

NagaS

[vijayr]

And Sabesh-Murali is now the MD for the next Cheran film :-(

Dig: Karthik Raja- I have mixed feelings about this guy. Sure he had a few good songs under IR and on his own he had a handful of good songs. But a combination of bad movie choices along with uninspired songs in them makes him get less sympathy from me. He is said to have mentioned somewhere that he doesnt enjoy doing songs as much as BGM. Now if IR can say that after doing 800+ movies it makes some sense, but with KR... :-) Also, some of his recent albums(Singaara chennai, ragasiyamaai etc.) are bad and he has started singing regularly as well. For someone who does very less albums you expect to hear atleast 2 very good songs per album.
His best song to date "veesum kaatrukku poovai theriyaadha" is a lift.(and so was Cholaare cho cho laare). He probably doesnt get as much patronage as his brother and thats probably the one area where he will get sympathy. Talent-wise, I guess he has more potential than the likes of Bharadwaj if he puts his heart and soul into it.

[NagaS]

IMO Cheran is an overrated Director - I liked his PaNdavar Boomi and Desiya Geetham to some extend, But Autograph was just average and was far from reality (I know, I won't have any followers for this opinion of mine, But I feel strongly that Autograph is not a yathaarththa movie, but a 'clever' work of fiction, which is trying all possible things to kiLaRu-fy the readers' experienes with his / her past lover(s) and uses that 'mayakka' nilai to make them 'like' the movie ! I don't say its wrong, but the movie and cheran don't deserve this much praise / attention)

Few months back, I wrote a detailed review of this movie (in tamil), if anybody interested, I can post it here,

NagaS

[rajasaranam]

NagaS,

I second your opinion about the movie 'Autograph' It was a overrated movie. Naalu scenela kashtapattu Cheran Perumoochu vittathu Paarthu namma makkal ellam Perumoochu vittu perumoochu vittu padatha oda vachutaanga. Naan Orae oru perumoochu vittaen padam mudijathundra nimmathila :-)

[Sudalai]

NagaS/rajasaranam..
What if IR had scored the BGMs...??? then, this would have been another 'azhagi'.. ;-) what do you say..? :rotfl: :thumbsup:

[rajasaranam]

Which movie have i appreciated Just because it had music scored by Raja :( Thankar Bachan's Career graph IMHO is Worse worser worsest. The film makers from whom i expect something good is Balumahendra, Bala[not for sethu and nandha but for Pithamagan] and kamalhassan. Its not my mistake as all three happen to be HCIRF's :)

[Cinefan]

naga,rajasaranam,
I would disagree with you in respect to Autograph as I liked it very much(My life has no similarities to the story :D ) but Cheran IS an overrated director.Where he scores is in his choice of subjects.His music sense in not something to write about.Even IR was disappointing in Desiya Geetham(I didn't like that movie).I am not too fond of Bala also as his execution is nowhere near his Guru's.There is an underlaying morbidity in his subjects&it's downright depressing.Also there's something missing which makes it impossible to feel for the characters.Watched 'Kadal'recently&the tears welled up without my knowledge.Sandhya is a great find,i just hope the industry gives her good subjects&takes her to greater heights.

[NagaS]

wrt azhagi - I liked the movie, It had a better treatment than Autograph - NOT because of muzik :)

wrt autograph, my disappointment is not because of songs / bgm / story / acting. Eventho' the theme Cheran selected was good, his execution was pure commercial, and the worst part is, he tries to hide his commercial motives by making it 'look' like a yathaarththavaatha film - for example, take the velai theding sequence, Cheran and friends are in a house, they are not having food properly, drinking water from a kuzhaayadi and OOOOFFFFFFF ... sneha comes, sings a song and their life is changed forever,. - what difference is there between this and typical vikraman movies ? If cheran is honest in the way of representing reality, he wouldn't have chosen to make his hero 'think' and 'concentrate' about only his girl friend / pazhaiya lovers, forgetting everybody else who would have come in his life - I am not ready to accept that somebody's (male / female) autograph will have 90% kaathal related ninaivugaL only !

NagaS

[vijayr]

I dont think there is anything wrong with the execution being commercial. Cheran never claims to make arthouse movies, his movies have a strong dose of commercial element. So do Mani Rathnam's and Shankar's. Heck, even Balu Mahendra's movies have sometimes Silk smitha's dance thrust in for commercial purposes. Now Vikraman-he is probably overrated, his movies have way too ideal characters and a happily-ever-after ending after implausible situations. I liked Autograph just for the theme chosen. Our movies have just action or romance as the focal point all the time. Old wine in a new bottle.
Autograph, in contrast, was new wine packaged in an old bottle :-)
It wasnt flawless, had a few commercial compromises, but in comparison with other movies which are nothing but a collection of commercial elements, Autograph stood taller. If Autograph was overrated then Virumandi definitely was too. The last 30 mins of that film was a complete disaster and our makkals still decided to make it a hit. What about Pithamagan? Vikram's characterization was highly artificial and exaggerated. In the end it was an ordinary story of love and revenge. But all these movies succeeded because they gave the audience something different to chew on and did it with lesser compromises.

[jaiganes]

I disagree with this thread totally!
Anybody who is neutral who happens to read this thread would easily come to a conclusion that this is nothing but a bunch of armchair critics who are shocked that what they put down as a dud being so successful. :lol:
My questions are:
1. There are hundreds of movies which are so commercially successful in spite of not being different or special from an artistic point of view. We do not see a thread being opened for these movies. So only reason why Cheran or Bala have to be bashed by disgruntled ManiRatnam fans (IMO) is simply that they are successful. So....
2. Do we need this thread to continue anymore ????? :twisted: :evil:

[eden]

While I totally agree with the opinion of DFers on the music of Autograph, which was below average, the BGM by S-M was mediocre and so were the songs (choice of singers was good which saved them from disaster),

I liked the pre-Chennai part of the movie very much...it was really yadhArtham (realistic)...being grown up in similar country side in the then Madurai dist and spending the bachelordom in Kerala, I can vouch for the authenticity of the language, situations...I myself has seen so many `uNmai sambavangaL' & real-life characters (unfortunately I was not one as I was never `adventurous')...

The Sneha part of the film, though unrealistic, had some niceties (like charity, professionalism pushing emotions backseat, declining offer of the boys to stay-with etc.).

However, the best part was the climax, an arranged-marriage, with those whom the hero `oofed around' attending! That is very realistic and happens most of the time and Cheran wins there...I think that differentiated the movie from being ordinary...no melodrama at all...

[MumbaiRamki]

NagaS ,
Athu kuda parava illa ....atleast he gave very decent movie with soem good gramma manam ..

after the movie was going successfull ,he gave an interview ,where he goes to his old school and talks about his school/college days and said about " Kavitha va naan kadhalichen ...eppa ava enga irukallo theriala ..and gave a very sad face ..."

I just felt like slapping him for all the non sense he was talking .....Avaroda kuppaiya ethuku namma kitta kotraru ...!!!!

But cheran has to be appreciated for giving /trying to give good,simple movies with no vulgarity .

[MumbaiRamki]

Vijayr ,

Veesum katrukum - only the first 2 lines were lifted ..rest all were original ..In that way ,every composer has done that ...


Let us his last 5-6 released

1.ALbum - Exteremly bad movie ,but atleast it had 4 very good songs .

2.3 roses - Totally useless movie ,KR was cheated ( not paid ) - Yet KR did deliver good songs if not great

3.Ragasiyamai - ANother useless ,floppy movie but he did deliver tow very good melodies .

4.SIngara chennai - I never knew this movie was released - The project budget was less than crore for ur informatioN !! Still 2 songs were good .
5.Kudaikkul Mazhai - Very good story ,but it flopped .KR delivered 3 good songs and 2 amazing instrumentals and avery powerful BGMs with small Live orchestara

6.Neranja Manasu - Story is goo d,but crappy execution . KR did deliver 4 clean melodies .

Not many people know that he has done come work in Virumaandi too !!

Let us wait for sakkari ,Karuppan - by Susi Ganesan

His next movie in the line is "Right a Thappa ' Starring Ramana ,Uma ( Thendral Heroine ) and directed by Bhuvana

[eden]

What happened to the director of dum-dum-dum? Did he make any other movie, if so who was the MD? I thought Karthik Raja did a decent job in the songs..I like `ragasiyamAi'...and `dEsingu rAjA' was good too...

[MumbaiRamki]

A.Perumal is teh director .did two movie s... :clap:

1.Udhaya - ARR

2.Joot - Vidhyasagar

[vijayr]

"Veesum katrukum - only the first 2 lines were lifted ..rest all were original ..In that way ,every composer has done that ... "

Mumbai Ramki, even Deva lifts only the first 1 or 2 lines :-)
The point is KR has very few or no songs that can be called great and original at the same time. A few good songs-but no great ones. His Grahan was good and kehte hain Jisko/Veesum kaatrukku come close to being called great. (KavidhaigaL sollava by SPB was also more than just good). I listened to his recent albums and wasnt impressed by any song in particular. Even "Album" wasnt all that fresh - he has more than a generous dose of IR hangover in his tunes and orchestration. Worse, he has started singing. I wish he stops it soon. As for his collaboration with IR he did some good work in Siraichaalai and earlier movies but might be responsible for a lot of synth-intrusion in an otherwise good IR composition in the mid-90s. Movies like Chandralekha, Paattu paadava etc. have an uncharacteristically heavy synth usage which might be KR's handiwork.

[vincent]

BHARADWJ IS GREAT
HIS MUSIC IN AUTOGRAGH WAS REALLY
HEART TOUCHING MUSIC
ESPECIALY "NYABEGAM VARUTHE" "NINAIVUGAL"

[vincent]

BHARADWAJ'S "NYABEGAM" FROM AUTOGRAGH
AND "AVAR AVAR VAZHKAYIL" FROM PAANDAVAR BHOOMI
ARE SAME "RAAGA" :wink:

[Arjuna]

-deleted-

[yvsmani]

manasukkulle thaagam vanthuchchaa and ovvoru pookkalumae are good songs.
Even in ayya, aththiri baththiri kaththirikaai, oru vaarththai solla kaathirunthen and suththi poada vendamaa are good
Vijay TV thiraivimarsanathil thamizh manam maaramal Bharadwaj isaiamaithullar endraargal. He is neither best nor worst even though he recycles his songs.

[Nitya]

Vijay, I really appreciate that you tell things as they are, and not candy-coat the facts. One example is, you said that just because the songs in 'Julie Ganapathy' are composed by Ilayaraja for a movie by Balu Mahendra, they shouldn't be overrated. Although I like the songs somewhat, I'm not still humming any of them today. Furthermore, there was clear influence from earlier Ilayaraja songs. 'Thanni Konjam Yererukku' resembles 'Engeyo Thikkudesai/Thanmaanum Ulla Nenjam' from Mahanadhi, and 'Minmini Paarvaigal' resembles 'Sorgathin Vaasappadi' from Unnai Solli Kutramillai, right or wrong? Saying that since Julie Ganapathy has songs by IR for Balu Mahendra the songs are top-notch would be similar to saying that since Simran is the most popular actress in Tamilnadu, and I'm not even sure if that's still the case, she is most beautiful. Not necessarily...

Of course, some people genuinely do like the songs from Autograph, regardless of what you say about them.


Regards,
Nitya

[NagaS]

Nithya,

you mean to say Autograph songs didn't remind you any of Bharadwaj's / other MD's old songs ? I can't believe it :)

Atleast two things I can quote now - Nyapagam varuthae was just a ditto of avaravar vaazhkkaiyil, with a few things changed here and there,. Ovvoru pookkaLumae had shades of 'kaNNin maNiyae kaNNin maNiyae' from 'manadhil uruthi vaeNdum' ...

I am not telling they are 100% copies, But if you take your Julie Ganapathy remarks, my claims are also true - Ippadi paesina you can reject all tunes from all albums !

NagaS

[Nitya]

NagaS, I never really took the time to listen to all the songs from Autograph. I was just objectively stating that some people genuinely like the songs in Autograph. It's just common sense, is it not?

[NagaS]

may be, we also like JG songs genuinely ;) whats wrong ? :)

Sari sari .. peace peace :)

NagaS

[vijayr]

Nitya, I didnt quite get your point and your comparison between Julie Ganapathy and Autograph. For one thing, the former was a flop both in terms of audio sales and the movie performance at the BoxO. But the latter was a hit and the songs were often played on TV and so on. So I was just making the point that it was overrated, of course, in my opinion. To be frank, as ordinary as Julie Gnapathy's songs were(by IR's standards) I would listen to them 10 times before I listen to Autograph once. Since the movie became a hit and the song situations were more poignant/interesting than the songs themselves the Autograph songs were played again and again on TV and thus became a "hit". Left to themselves, the songs are eminently forgettable. Bharadwaj offici ally joined the league of SAR, Sirpy and the likes with this album :-)

BTW, ThaNNI konjam yerirukku from Julie Ganapathy -opening line is ripped of a folk song -mayavaram kannanukku maalai onnu seyya sonnen - a Pushpavanam kuppusamy song.

[Nitya]

Alright Vijay, I realize the message in my first posting was a bit unclear. What I meant to say is, I validate you for speaking your mind, even if everyone else is praising one artist, album or song just because everybody else is doing so. I don't mean that the songs in 'Julie Ganapathy' are bad. And btw, I didn't know that this was a flop in terms of audio sales. I just remember you saying that you felt the songs were primitive by Ilayaraja standards. I'm just reminding you of how you don't just praise an album or song just because of its hype. Am I making any sense?


NagaS, if you genuinely like the songs of 'Julie Ganapathy,' there's no harm in that as far as I can see.


Regards,
Nitya