Topic started by vohsendhan (@ 202.88.138.181) on Thu Feb 28 11:51:47 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I am deeply perturbed at the way the political and religious leaders of our nation are leading the masses. The people are taught to have pride in calling themselves as belonging to this or that religion. Can there be any pride in it? What if one wears Sacred Ash, performs Namaz or wears Cross? Are they boasting that the method they follow is a sure fire way to attain God that they look down upon others? Does religion really lead one to God?

No. A resounding ‘No’. That is what the Bible says; that is what the Quran says. That is what the real thinkers who were really interested in seeking truth have expounded.

Abou Ben Adam awoke one night from a deep dream of peace and saw within the moonlight in his room an angel writing in a book of gold. Adam asked what it was. The angel replied that it was a list of “those who loved God”. “Is mine one?”, he enquired. “Nay, not so”, replied the angel. Adam, therefore, wanted his name to be included in the list of persons who loved humanity. “Include me in the list of those who love their fellowmen”, he said. The angel wrote and vanished. “The next night it appeared with a great awakening light and showed the names of those whom the love of God had blessed. And lo, Ben Adam’s name led the rest”. Thus what happened ultimately was that he had secured first rank in the list prepared by God that contained the names of the “persons who were loved by God”. Thus Christianity shows that the outward appearances of being God-loving do not really matter, and one cannot go to heaven just by flattering God.

There was a Mullah in a village. He was just doing his work in the mosque. The villagers had been indulging themselves in various sinful activities. But, the Mullah who was aware of the entire on goings did not come forward to inform them of their folly with the aim of reforming them. He thought that none would listen to him. He, however, did not commit any such sinful action himself. Soon after, there was flood. It washed away the entire village. It took away the Mullah too. All of them were presented before the God. God punished everybody according to the nature of his or her crime. When Mullah presented himself last, he was imposed double the punishment. Thje Mullah pleaded that he had not committed any sin and had been doing only the work for God in the mosque. God did not agree. It was the duty of the Mullah to inform the villagers of their wrongs. The villagers were not aware of the extent of their sin. To some extent they were ignorant. But the Mullah was an informed man. He was therefore duty –bound to inform others whether they would listen to him or not. He did not do so and hence the double penalty.“When a sin is committed before an individual or a group and they do not prevent it, in spite of having the capability, then Allah inflicts a severe punishment on them…” (Virtues of Tabligh -- Chapter II- Sayings of the Prophet). Thus Islam shows that even a priest cannot go to heaven unless he discharges his inherent duty when on earth. Generally, no one would observe the religious formalities more punctually and more systematically than the priest. Yet, the doors to heaven do not open to those who observe only those formalities.
According to Sivavaakkiyar, a Tamil poet who was an ardent worshipper of Lord Siva, the outward appearances of the so-called pious man do not count for anything. The religious formalities observed by him would not carry him anywhere. What counts is that one must be honest and truthful.

Tamil Poet Bharathiyar says that it is a folly to resort to the formal prayer without having any love and affection towards fellow human beings. His poem ‘kolamittu vilakkinaiyetri…’ describes the concept very forcefully and effectively.

Man does not need religion. Religious leaders cannot survive without religion.Indian Political leaders cannot survive without provoking religious conflicts. They have admitted in public that they thrive on them. It is foolish to become pawn in the hands of Indian politico-religious mischief mongers.

Be a Christian, Hindu or Muslim or even athiest! That is never an issue. But be a humanist. That alone decides whether you are man.

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: BAB (@ cache-rq05.proxy.aol.com) on: Thu Nov 13 18:58:55 EST 2003
  
  Michael, that is all well and good until someone gets political about their religion and want to subject you to less than your fair share of equal acess and justice in sharing in the political pie. That is the major problem that gets deteriorated to wars whether within Hinduism, Christianity, Islam, Judaism or the various sects within these groups.
  
  
• From: mmc (@ 12-231-63-199.client.attbi.com) on: Thu Nov 13 20:08:50 EST 2003
  
  HINDUISM & CASTE
  Caste (varna):
  Brahmin = Priest Caste;
  Ksatriya = Rajanya/Ruler/Warrior Caste;
  Vaisya = Commoner Caste;
  Sudra = Servant/Slave Caste; and
  Avarna = Outcaste/Untouchable/Dalit/Candala/Dog-eater.
  
  There are also many subsets in each caste. Dvija = twice-born (twice-born = upper 3 castes or sometimes just Brahmin caste particularly). Some Hindus have a delusion that caste is not promoted by any of their holy books. Is that really so? Let's find out:
  
  "By his very birth a Brahmin is a deity even for the gods and the only authority for people in this world, for the Veda is the foundation in this matter." -- Manusmrti 11:85.
  
  "People here whose behaviour is pleasant can expect to enter a pleasant womb, like that of a woman of the Brahmin, the Ksatriya, or the Vaisya caste. But people of foul behaviour can expect to enter the foul womb, like that of a dog, a pig, or an outcaste woman." -- Chandogya Upanisad 5:10:7.
  
  "If a man of one birth (Sudra) hurls cruel words at one of the twice-born, his tongue should be cut out, for he was born from the rear-end. If he mentions their name or caste maliciously, a red-hot iron nail ten-fingerslong should be thrust into his mouth. If he is so proud as to instruct priests about their duty, the king should have hot oil poured into his mouth and ears." -- Manusmrti 8:270-272.
  
  "If a man of inferior caste tries to sit down on the same seat as a man of superior caste, he should be branded on the hip and banished, or have his buttocks cut off." -- Manusmrti 8:281.
  
  "If in the process of negotiating betrothal there are first ten suitors of the non-Brahmana varna for a woman (the marriageable girl), all of them lose their claims of marriage and, only the Brahmin, the learned one, if he grasps her hand would be her husband and only he. Not even the man of Ksatriya varna and not even the man of Vaisya varna but only the Brahmin is the husband of the bride in such cases of claimants of betrothal, and the sun, as it appears, revealing this fact to the people of five classes (4 varnas and the fifth avarna) rises up." -- Atharva Veda 5:17:8-9.
  
  "If someone born in a Ksatriya, Vaisya, or Sudra womb should be unable to pay his fine, he may absolve himself of the debt by labour; a Brahmin should pay little by little. The king should have women, children, madmen, and the old, the poor, and the ill chastised with a whip, a bamboo cane, a rope, and so forth." -- Manusmrti 9:229-230.
  
  "The Sudra's duty and supreme good is nothing but obedience to famous Brahmin householders who know the Veda. If he is unpolluted, obedient to his superiors, gentle in his speech, without a sense of 'I', and always dependent on the Brahmins and the other (twice-born castes), he attains a superior birth (in the next life)." -- Manusmrti 9:334-335.
  
  "…thereby the Ksatriya, whenever he likes, says, 'Hello Vaisya, just bring to me what you have stored away!' Thus he both subdues him and obtains possession of anything he wishes by dint of this very energy." -- Satapatha Brahmana 1:3:2:15.
  
  "One-fourth of (the punishment for) Brahmin-killing is traditionally regarded as (the punishment) for the killing of a Ksatriya, one-eighth for (killing) a Vaisya, and it should be one-sixteenth for (killing) a Sudra who knows his place." -- Manusmrti 11:127.
  
  "A Brahmin is a great deity whether or not he is learned, just as fire is a great deity whether or not it is brought to the altar. The purifying fire with its brilliant energy is not defiled even in cremation grounds, and when oblations of butter are placed in it at sacrifices it grows even greater. Thus Brahmins should be revered in every way, even if they engage in all kinds of undesirable actions, for this is the supreme deity. If the Ksatriyas become overbearing towards the Brahmins in any way, the Brahmins themselves should subdue them, for the Ksatriyas were born from the Brahmins." -- Manusmrti 9:317-320.
  
  "A Ksatriya in adversity may also make a living by all of these (means); but he should never be so proud as to assume the livelihood of his betters. If a man of the lowest caste should, through greed, make his living by the innate activities of his superiors, the king should confiscate his wealth and banish him immediately. One's own duty, (even) without any good qualities, is better than someone else's duty well done; for a man who makes his livingby someone else's duty immediately falls from (his own) caste." -- Manusmrti 10:95-97.
  
  "With whatever limb an inferior insults or hurts his superior in caste, of that limb the king shall cause him to be deprived. If he places himself on the same seat with his superior, he shall be banished with a mark on hisbuttocks. If he spits on him, he shall lose both lips; If he breaks wind against him, his hindparts; If he uses abusive language, his tongue. If a (lowborn) man through pride gives instruction (to a member of the highest caste) concerning his duty, let the king order hot oil to be dropped into his mouth. If a (low-born man) mentions the name or caste of a superior revilingly, an iron pin, ten inches long, shall be thrust into his mouth (red hot)." -- Visnusmrti 5:19-25.
  
  "His (Purusa's) mouth became the Brahmin; his arms were made into the Ksatriya, his thighs the Vaisya, and from his feet the Sudra was born." -- Rig Veda 10:90:12.
  
  In comparison, Sudras are as low as feet & Outcastes (avarna) are even below that status of course.
  
  
  
• From: karthi (@ wc09.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com) on: Fri Nov 14 00:12:59 EST 2003
  
  Can you tell the stories of Mohamed who fukked a six year old girl or raping his son's wife?
  
  Can you tell some more stories of Virgin Mary who had a son or the SEX episodes of POPES?
  
  
• From: BAB (@ cache-mtc-am01.proxy.aol.com) on: Fri Nov 14 08:55:00 EST 2003
  
  All you say with your remarks is to tell the world that your personal growth and development were arrested as a result of premature exposure to sexual intercourse.
  
  
• From: tamacha (@ 62.105.98.245) on: Fri Nov 14 09:54:07 EST 2003
  
  karthi farti
  tamil fanatic
  who smells alot
  b-cos he's hot
  NOT!!!!
  
  
• From: karthi (@ wc09.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com) on: Sun Nov 16 20:12:53 EST 2003
  
  Hahaha
  Aryan assss..Gypsies were the Aryans in India.
  hohohohohohhohoho
  
  
• From: tamil pussycat (@ 62.105.98.245) on: Mon Nov 17 08:51:32 EST 2003
  
  TAMIL PUSSYCATS USE CHILDREN!!!!!!
  
  MEOOOOOOOOOOOW!!!!
  
  karthi the farty
  smells at a party
  and makes them cry
  and gets them high!!!
  
  
• From: karthi (@ wc09.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com) on: Tue Nov 18 03:49:56 EST 2003
  
  hahahahh
  brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
  drrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
  grrrrrrrrrrrr
  dddddddddd
  ssssssssss
  fffffffff
  Bad sappati and sabji smell!
  
  

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