Topic started by Peter (@ 212.46.3.176) on Tue Jan 30 13:58:37 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

It is strange and very interesting, that in indian sculptures one can see very always another body trampled under feet. We can note Shiva trampled under Kali's feet, or Dwarf trampled under Nataraja's feet. But as for this sculptures i know the meaning of this (who and why trampled under feet) for the sculptures of yakshini i don't know this...

see here ..
http://pygmalionproject.tripod.com/stone.html

Please explain me what does dwarfs under feet mean.. Was it normal practice of putting the dwarf under feet in ancient india? What does this dwarf meen? I know feet has great meaning, but only on indian sculptures one can see other person under feet. Is it a common practice in india?

Vic (russia)

Responses:

• From: Raveen (@ user1533.lv.sprint-hsd.net) on: Tue Jan 30 17:01:17
  
  Dear Peter,
  
  Yaksha/Yakshi was also a term used to describe celestial (negative conotation) beings as well as real indigenous Tribal populations not only in India but also in Sri lanka and South East Asia.
  
  
• From: Anantha (@ webcacheh03a.cache.pol.co.uk) on: Fri Mar 2 19:51:39
  
  Siva under Kali's feet is not a dwarf. It is symbolism for passive force restraining the active when the latter goes out of control.
  
  The dwarf under Natarazha's feet denotes ignorance. Ancient Shilpasastras of India provide elaborate reference to the fact that the dwarf denotes ignorance, & Manucci mentions this as well.
  
  The Dwarf form was a divine avtara of Visnu, the 5th Avtar, Vamana.
  
  You need to expand your arid knowledge of sculpture. There are innumerable sculptures of Hitite, Babylonian & other origins of forms beneath the feet. Even off-hand I recall steles of Tiglath Pileser and Shalamansher. While they denote the crushing of enemies, Natarazha denotes the crushing of the enemy of ignorance.
  
  
• From: Anel (@ ppp132-116.dialup.mtu-net.ru) on: Sat May 26 09:59:27
  
  I think this is because dwarfs in India always were the mostly humilated persons. Poor those who was born with a dwarf form. They only may be clowns in circus. This was in ancient India, and to depict their humilated position, or to depict anything is humilated dwarf body form was used and also body was put under feet to denote it humilated position.
  
  
• From: shard (@ lan-202-144-125-38.maa.sify.net) on: Tue May 29 04:49:42
  
  Many communities in Southern India worship deities very distinct from mainstream Hindu deities...these include Yakshas, Yakshis, Ammans and Rakshas (last group sounds familiar doesn't it). One theory is that many are the remnants of indigenous deities that existed before Aryanization after which many were either absorbed by vedic hinduism as forms of their gods or were rejected as demons...Rakshas (protector) becomes Raakshas (demon?) get it? One evidence going for this theory is that many tribes in India worship these so called demons. Okay as a young child I rmember attending the 'installation' of a local deity in a small temple in my home town. This deity wwas unique. She is supposed to have craved for a boon that she be given many children, one to bite into, one to hold to each breast, one to trample upon, and there was alao a song about the legend. During a recent visit I tried to procure a recording of the song but was unsuccesful...Hindutva had taken its toll and the song seems to have sunk into oblivion under the weight of fundamentalist neo-hindu ideology. Sad. The symbolism behind the visage of the deity seems to be lost. Ihave not given up hope however. The idea of a dwarf being trampled is a recurring motif and I do believe there are any number of socio-cultural roots for the image. I guess one needs to listen to the less heard 'primitive' cultures for the key.
  
  
• From: Pete (@ 212.46.3.184) on: Tue May 29 12:53:17
  
  thank you shard and all others for answers.
  Unfourtunately culture being change quickly, old goes forgotten and soon we dont know the real idea of image, but only fantasies about it.
  
  I can tell you the idea that was suggested by auther of the site i reffer. He tells that this dwarfs are the kind of riksha's - indian drivers, transporters, who transported other people astride, on their back like horses. That this was a kind of profession in ancient india.
  
  This yakshis also ride them. In case yakshini was standing for a rest, he lied under her feet to provide her better rest or view (there s an idea that yakshi is an artist and should be better seen during performance, then riksha (dwarf) was used as pedestal. Also, Nataraja's image is the image taken from performance of dance on riksha in ancient times).This rikshas of course were not dwarves, but real size people, and pictured as dwarves only to suit the place at the bottom of sculpture.
  This was an idea given by image of sculpture from here:http://pygmalionproject.tripod.com/large/pics/riksha.jpg
  
  I don't know is it correct or not. It's hard to beleive, but may be any of you knows it better.
  Please anybody if you have any idea was it so in india, or not tell me.
  
  
  
• From: anu nair (@ 164.164.86.66) on: Thu May 31 08:27:40
  
  Dear Vic Peter,
  dwarfs can be tramplers too in Indian culture.
  check this site.(note the third Temple in the list)
  http://www.gappudiary.com/khajurao/khaj_fam_sites1.htm
  To appreciate this aspect you need to visit India. So book your tickets right away.
  
  
• From: Vic Peter (@ ts16-a182.dial.sovam.com) on: Sat Jun 9 05:57:13
  
  I see!
  
  This can only make the question more difficult!
  I do not think that this can denote that dwarfs are treated like gods in india, but that Vishnu took the form of a dwarf also cos that will help the most humilated people in India - dwarfs.
  
  This is the only one aspect in India, in others dwarfs are to be trampled!
  
  
• From: Nagarajan (@ dkf-gw.dkf.de) on: Wed Jun 13 11:41:23
  
  The dwarf stands(lies) for forgetfullness and ignorance. How many times we become thoughtful when we meet death but forget all about it in the next moment!
  
  
• From: F (@ ) on: Fri Sep 28 12:35:12
  
  suck dwarf
  
  
• From: Humble_Hindu (@ spider-loh-td034.proxy.aol.com) on: Thu Oct 4 19:01:23
  
  Dear Pete,
  
  Please tell me where you got the idea of piggy-back riding being a profession in ancient India?
  
  Yakshas and yakshis are the equivalent of goblins, elves and cherubs in Western mythology. Like all ancient cultures, they add colour and flavour to the quality of myths they appear in.
  
  Elves in Celtic lore do not imply piggy bank rides through Irish vales.
  
  Do you understand this?
  
  Or are you really a Muslim posing as a Christian to denigrate India? If so, which stupid Madrassa did you study (hah ... "Madrassa" and "study" - Contradiction in terms) in ?
  
  And if so, what are you doing on this forum ? Shouldn't you be with your stupid mates fleeing as economic migrants to the West to escape your own stupid countries, breeding 12 kids, and then making ugly plans to murder innocent Westerners?
  
  Actually, you probably already are !!!
  
  !!!
  
  !!!!!!
  
  
• From: Peter (@ 217.171.1.234) on: Wed Oct 10 11:50:25
  
  Humble Hindu!
  It is nice that you are patriot of ancient India, but i think there is no good protecting it from the things you cant be sure in. Why are you sure that there was no "piggy-riding" in ancien india.
  This idea is one of my friend. He gave such explanation of dwarfs that are usially seen under feet in India. Look!
  
  http://pygmalionproject.tripod.com/stone.html
  
  You did not explain, you told nothing about this pictures.
  And here is the actual sculpture of piggy-riding -
  
  See!
  http://pygmalionproject.tripod.com/large/pics/riksha.jpg
  
  As to western elves and goblins, there is no sculptures of piggy-riding, as in India, no sculptures with poor dwarves under feet. This is real feature only of ancient indian culture.
  
  Pity, that you have no not knowledge to explain, and see muslims everywhere!
  
  Peter
  
  !!!!!
  
  
  
  
• From: sheesh (@ ppp147-178.dialup.mtu-net.ru) on: Mon Jan 14 20:05:48
  
  sheesh
  
  
• From: Heather (@ spider-to052.proxy.aol.com) on: Fri Apr 19 22:23:44
  
  if anyone has any good trampling pics please send them to me thanks guys.
  
  

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