Topic started by Wise Man (@ ppp-188-192.bng.vsnl.net.in) on Wed Oct 24 07:52:43 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Shabana Azmi's reply to the ranting and rumbling Imam of Juma Masjid was refreshing. To suggest that a person no less than the foul mouthed, traitorous Imam should be air dropped in Kandhahar, for his good and ours should serve as a reminder to the Muslim community in India that they cannot forever eat the salt of this nation and pretend that they do not see and hear anything. Its high time that other educated, right thinking Muslims came out and voiced their feelings rather than sit quiet and allow idots from their community to be their mouth piece. Finally it took a woman from among them to show guts and sensible thinking. Way to go Shabana!!!

P.S. The idiots will probably put out a Fatwa on her (they don't know anything else).

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Truth Teller (@ 192.149.1.187) on: Fri Oct 26 18:30:36
  
  Prakash,
  You are correct to say:
  >subhuman treatment of a whole class of people
  >(Dalits) for generations. This is a historical fact.
  
  We should punish the evildoers who illtreat dalits. Whether they do it in the name of religion or caste or anything else is immaterial. Ill treatment of Dalits is wrong, evil, immoral and illegal. We will leave to God to punish them after they leave this world. But when they are in this world we will punish them to the fullest extent of the law ourselves. There is absolutely no justification to exploit and subjugate the Dalits.
  
  You are wrong when you say:
  >In no Islamic nation has a human being
  >(be he/she muslim or otherwise) suffered as
  >much as a Dalit
  
  Islam believes in slavery. Quran itself mentions numerous instances of enslaving of people. The Arab slave trade extended from the West coast of Africa, where blacks were exported to Americas to the Indonesia. All over the Indian ocean all the slave trade was done by Arabs. Just read the many links to Quran posted by many posters here to see the brutal treatment given by Mohammad on the Jews of Khaibar and other instances.
  
  Fact is the caste discrimination practiced by Hindus and the slavery practiced muslims are both equally brutal, and equally violent. There has been numerous efforts to reform Hinduism, and they are becoming increasingly successful. I hope Hindus will be fully reformed in another 50 or 100 years. Muslims have not yet woken up and acknowledge the fact that their religion is very brutal and violent. They still maintiain the fiction that "Islam provides for different rights for believers and non-believers" while the fact is the non-believer has no rights at all. They still maintain that there is no discrimination in Islam while they openly talk about the "corruption of Islam due to local influences". The muslims have to wake up and smell the arabian coffee first.
  
  
• From: Sugrutha (@ 65.11.240.45) on: Fri Oct 26 19:04:26
  
  "Her role is not that of a social reformer." Yes. For some time she did pose as a reformer. She even went on fast to save the Geeta colony in Colaba.
  
  
• From: arasan (@ 166.121.37.114) on: Fri Oct 26 23:21:51
  
  Okay, dear all, before answering Miss Sugrutha's question, let me tell you that there is no such religion with the title "Islam" even in the Quran itself. I thank an Arab bro for such a wonderful research which made a lot of sense. It is not we change our minds now and then, we search for the truth. And this happens to the ultimate truth..This religion (the system ) is a very generic one and is meant for all. God would not have favoured a race or a certain person and made them or him examples of certain kinds of behaviour.
  The prophet - is there a need to follow his ways? NOT at all. As a person who relies on only one book (quran) as a religious source I do not at all see him as a law giver. There are so many many differing views in the countless number of hadiths. Only God knows what Muhamad had really done in his life. Some of us only look into the Quran only to find out what this last prophet (whom I call kadaikuttee-last in the family) was doing. I only know the Prophet Mohamad and not the ordinary Mohamad. The bottomline is Mohamad was commanded by GOD to go to war BUT he would never have on his accord started the wars. AND God did not command anyone else to go to war…for the sake of religion…and there is not even a single mention of a "holy war" the quran. So, so-called "extreme views and actions presented by Mohamad" are totally inapplicable to me.
  Is the quran extreme? YES IT WAS!- lemme give you a present day scenario-US attacking the Taleban-GOOD vs EVIL- same thing here-God (in the quran) did not ask to go and kill (during Mohamad's time and to date) Xtians, jews whatever. He only told Mohamad to kill those who were oppressing those who had a very simple desire to practice "The Religion" AND show mercy and compassion to those who walk away peacefully. That's it.
  Once all these had been done, GOD almighty declared "I have perfected the religion for you.!" So no matter what a man does now will not defile or enhance "the religion".
  Nowhere in the Quran it is mentioned that every single phrase and sentence is valid for ever. The Quran as a historical record has dark and violent episodes just like any other history books. The basic message of the Quran is the "Monotheistical" reminder…
  The whole thing about Quran induced present day violence is a sick thing.
  
  "a very simple desire to practice "The Religion"' -this is my biggest challenge against the sun-nis & shiittes….
  
  
  
• From: arasan (@ 166.121.37.114) on: Fri Oct 26 23:44:45
  
  "Quran itself mentions numerous instances of enslaving of people. " - Incorrect "islam" (for me now onwards - the religion) or rather the quran was only refering to the existing practice called slavery- the quran tells every believers to free slaves!If they do not they are not believers!!
  2:177] Righteousness is not turning your faces towards the east or the west.
  Righteous are those who believe in GOD, the Last Day, the angels, the scripture,
  and the prophets; and they give the money, cheerfully, to the relatives, the
  orphans, the needy, the traveling alien, the beggars, and to free the slaves;
  and they observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity
  
  [9:60] Charities shall go to the poor, the needy, the workers who collect
  them, the new converts, to free the slaves, to those burdened by sudden
  expenses, in the cause of GOD, and to the traveling alien. Such is GOD's
  commandment. GOD is Omniscient, Most Wise.
  
  
  
  
• From: arasan (@ 166.121.37.114) on: Sat Oct 27 00:00:51
  
  about the article, did the person really travel backin time..NO! Must be the hadiths..here is the story from the quran...
  
  [33:50] O prophet, we made lawful for you your wives to whom you have paid
  their due dowry, or what you already have, as granted to you by GOD. Also lawful
  for you in marriage are the daughters of your father's brothers, the daughters
  of your father's sisters, the daughters of your mother's brothers, the daughters
  of your mother's sisters, who have emigrated with you. Also, if a believing
  woman gave herself to the prophet - by forfeiting the dowry - the prophet may
  marry her without a dowry, if he so wishes. However, her forfeiting of the dowry
  applies only to the prophet, and not to the other believers. We have already
  decreed their rights in regard to their spouses or what they already have. This
  is to spare you any embarrassment. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
  [33:51] You may gently shun any one of them, and you may bring closer to you
  any one of them. If you reconcile with any one you had estranged, you commit no
  error. In this way, they will be pleased, will have no grief, and will be
  content with what you equitably offer to all of them. GOD knows what is in your
  hearts. GOD is Omniscient, Clement.
  [33:52] Beyond the categories described to you, you are enjoined from marrying
  any other women, nor can you substitute a new wife (from the prohibited
  categories), no matter how much you admire their beauty. You must be content
  with those already made lawful to you. GOD is watchful over all things.
  
  
• From: Sridhar (@ dialup-225-20.bol.net.in) on: Sat Oct 27 16:43:03
  
  http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1623000/1623328.stm
  
  
• From: Sridhar (@ dialup-225-20.bol.net.in) on: Sat Oct 27 16:46:21
  
  http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nyt/20011020/en/a_head-on_collision_of_alien_cultures__1.html
  
  
• From: arajan (@ threshold18n.jpmorgan.com) on: Tue Nov 13 00:43:23
  
  Arasan,
  
  "However, her forfeiting of the dowry
  applies only to the prophet, and not to the other believers."
  
  Did Allah pronounce this verse just applicable for your prophet Mohammed since you people consider him as the last prophet? How many such verses are dedicated to the man who called himself the last prophet?
  
  
  
  
• From: - (@ occe4.156ce.singa.pore.net) on: Wed Nov 21 03:12:48
  
  -
  
  

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