Is tamil derived from Sanskrit

[bis_mala]

Tamil verb "mathiththal" means "grind" or "make soft". The grindstaff or churnstaff is called maththu, which is always put into the centre hollow of the grindstone to grind or churn. From this the word attained the meaning "centre".

mathi > maththu > maththiyaana > maththiyanam > mathiyam.

Please note that the word: kadai means in Tamil: grind as well as last (kadaisi).
So do not be surprised that the word maththiyaana came from the root to grind.

Note that madhyene in Skrt also means through the midst of or on the inside. It shows indirectly this idea of (charnstaff) in the centre or inside (the grindstone). This meaning is not completely lost. It is still traceable.

maththiyaana actually means naduvaana (nEram).

The term maththiyaana must have originated from people of the pastoral tracts who did much of the churning with churnstaffs.

Aso note that the term "idai" comes from the root "idu" meaning to "place" something. In other words "placed" between is the central concept here.

The root word for "mayyam" (centre) in Tamil is "mai". It comes from "machi" Áº¢ which is another form of the word "mathi" Á¾¢ò¾ø (grind or make soft). mai ("¨Á") is obtained by grinding some black coloured stuff, a vegitable matter.

Conclusion is that mathiyam, maththiyanam are from Tamil roots. (aanam = aakiyathu from the Tamil "aana" participle verb.)

Existing words extended their meanings in this way.

[Bebeto]

Dear bis_mala,
are my following assumptions wrong?

mathiththaal = to respect,
kadai = the shop

This was my understanding up to now until you came. I am a "former Jaffna Tamil", left SL 27 Years ago and was not, pardon me, taking care of and for Tamil since. I am sorry about it but the circumstances forced me to be so.

Good Work you, FSG and Idiappam are delivering, thanks. (Others may think different but I don't think that I am the only one who appreciate you three)

[bis_mala]

Dear Bebeto,
Thanks for seeking the clarification.

mathiththal (Á¾¢ò¾ø) has several meanings.

mathi(Á¾¢) (verb Å¢¨É¡ø) > mathiththal Á¾¢ò¾ø (noun ¦ÀÂ÷¡ø ). (This is the verb-noun ¦¾¡Æ¢ü¦ÀÂ÷ variety).
This word Á¾¢ò¾ø has several meanings.
1. churning, causing something to turn repeatedly so as to soften it. ¸¨¼¾ø, ÍüÈ¢îÍÆüÈ¢ ¸ÊÉÁ¡É «øÄÐ ¸ðÊÂ¡É ¦À¡Õ¨Ç ¦ÁÐÅ¡ì̾ø *
2. being libidinuous.
3. estimating, considering, discerning, respecting.
We here dealt with the first * of the meanings.
Á¾¢ can also mean moon.
kadai. (noun). - shop (noun)

kadai (verb). - churn (verb) ¸¨¼¾ø - churning.
kadai (noun) = last; e.g. the last of the Sangams ¸¨¼îºí¸õ

kadai has also other meanings.
kadaikkaN ¸¨¼ì¸ñ - corner of the eye. (¸¨¼ = µÃõ.)
ithaz kadai thiRamin þ¾ú ¸¨¼ ¾¢ÈÁ¢ý - smile with the corners of your lips "stretched" . ¸¨¼ = ã¨Ä. ÓÊÔÁ¢¼õ.

kadaikkutti ¸¨¼ìÌðÊ - last child.
so on and so forth.

Kadai has about 11 meanings and it is also prefixed (Óý¦É¡ðÎ ) to other words to produce a variety of other terms with different meanings and connotations.

kadaippidi ¸¨¼ôÀ¢Ê = follow. À¢ýÀüÚ
kadaiyam ¸¨¼Âõ = the dance of Indrani. þó¾¢Ã¡½¢ ¿¼Éõ.
kadaiyayal = penultimate.
kadaippaadu ¸¨¼ôÀ¡Î = resolution ¾£÷Á¡Éõ (not kadappaadu ¸¼ôÀ¡Î «ýÚ ).

Here we considered the meanings to churn and last or end only.
This is not exhaustive. Only relevant meanings are discussed, Grateful for appreciation Bebeto!! Best regards.

[bis_mala]

²§¾Û¦Á¡ý¨È (Å£ðÎìÌ) ¦ÅÇ¢§Â ¦ºýÚ §Àº¢ò ¾¢Ã¢Å¨¾§Â "À¨Èº¡üÚ¾ø" ±ý¸¢§È¡õ. À¨È¢ɡø ´Ä¢ ±ØôÀ¡Áø ¦ÅÚõ Å¡öô§Àø ÀÃôÒŨ¾Ôõ þÐ ÌÈ¢ìÌõ. À¢ýÉ¡Ç¢ø þÐ ¦ÀÕõÀ¡Öõ ¦ÅÚõ Å¡öô§Àì ÌÈ¢ò¾Ð. þó¾î ¦º¡ø¨Äô ÀÂýÀÎòЧš÷ ¦ÅÚõ Å¡öô§À ÁðÎõ ÌȢ쨸¢ø À¨È ÀüÈ¢ ¿¢¨ÉôÀ¾¢ø¨Ä. «¨¾ô ÀüȢ ¾¨¼Ô½÷Ôõ ÁÉò¾¢ø §¾¡ýÚž¢ø¨Ä.

þô§À¡Ð "ÒÈõ º¡üÚ¾ø" ±ýÈ ¦¾¡¼¨Ãì ¸ÅÉ¢ô§À¡õ. þÐ×õ ¦ÅǢ¢ø ¦ºýÚ §Àº¢ò ¾¢Ã¢Å¨¾ì ¸¡ðÎõ. þ¨¾ ´Õ ¦º¡ýÉ£÷¨Áô ÀÎò¾¢É¡ø, "ÒÈÈõ" ¬Ìõ.

º¡Èõ ±ýÈ ¦º¡ø ²ý «í¹Éõ «¨Áó¾Ð? º¡üÈõ ±ýÈøħš «¨Á§ÅñÎõ? º¡Ú+ «õ (Ţ̾¢) = º¡üÈÁøÄÅ¡? ¦º¡øÄ¡ì¸ò¾¢ø þó¾ Å¢¾¢ À¢ýÀüÈô ÀΞ¢ø¨Ä. ±ÎòÐ측ðÞ: «Ú+ «õ = «Èõ. (¾ÕÁõ).

ÒÈÈõ > ÒÈÃõ > À¢ÃÃõ (§ÀîÍÅÆìÌ).

¾Á¢ú ¦Á¡Æ¢ìÌì «Æ¢Â¡Áø ¸¢¨¼ò¾ áø¸û º¢Ä§Å. ¬¨¸Â¡ø ÒÈÃõ ±ýÈ ¦º¡ø¨Ä áø¸Ç¢ø §¾Êô ÀÂý þø¨Ä.

À¢ÃÃõ ±ýÈ §ÀîÍî ¦º¡ø, À¢È¦Á¡Æ¢Â¢ø ¦ºýÚ µ÷ ¯Â÷ó¾ þ¼ò¾¢ø ¯ûÇÐ.

EthEnumonRai (vIddukku) veLiyE senRu pEsith thirivathaiyE "paRaichARRuthal" enkiROm. paRaiyinAl oli ezuppAmal veRum vAyppEssAl parappuvathaiyum ithu kuRikkum. pinnALil ithu perumpAlum veRum vAyppEchchaik kuRiththathu. in-thach chsollaip payanpaduththuvOr veRum vAyppEchchai maddum kuRikkaiyil paRai paRRi n-inaippathillai. athaip paRRiya thadaiyuNarssiyum manaththil thOnRuvathillai.

ippOthu "puRam chARRuthal" enRa thodaraik kavanippOm. ithuvum veLiyil senRu pEsith thirivathaik kAddum. ithai oru sonnIrmaip paduththinAl, "puRachchARam" Akum.

chARam enRa sol En angnganam amain-thathu? chARRam enRallavO amaiyavENdum? chARu+ am (vikuthi) = chARRamallavA? sollAkkaththil in-tha vithi pinpaRRap paduvathillai. eduththukkAddU: aRu+ am = aRam. (tharumam).
(puNarchchi vithi enpathu iru muzuch choRkaLukku).

puRachchARam > puRachchAram > pirachchAram (pEssuvazakku).

thamiz mozikkuk aziyAmal kidaiththa n-UlkaL silavE. AkaiyAl puRachchAram enRa sollai n-UlkaLil thEdip payan illai.

pirachchAram enRa pEchchuch sol, piRamoziyil senRu Or uyarn-tha idaththil uLLathu.

[bis_mala]

¸¡ö¾ø ±ýÈ ¦º¡øÖìÌô ÀÄ ¦À¡ÕÙñÎ. þó¾î ¦º¡øÖìÌ "´Ç¢ ţ;ø" ±ý¦È¡Õ ¦À¡ÕÙñÎ.

¿¢Ä¡ì ¸¡Ôõ §¿Ãõ ÅÃÏõ ±ýÈ À¡¼ø §¸ðÊÕôÀ£÷¸§Ç! "¸¡Ôõ" ±ýÈ¡ø ´Ç¢ ţ͸¢È ±ýÚ ¦ÀÕû.

¸¡ö > ¸¡Âõ. sky where the sun and stars shine or emit light.

ÀÆí¸¡Äò¾¢ø "¸¡Âõ" ±ýÀÐ ¬¸¡Âò¨¾ì ÌÈ¢ò¾Ð. ÀÆí¸¡Ä þÄ츢Âí¸Ç¢ø þÐ ¯ûÇÐ.

þÐ À¢ý ¬¸¡Âõ ±ýÚ Á¡È¢Å¢ð¼Ð. þ¾üÌì ¸¡Ã½õ, ¸¡Âõ ±ýÈ ¦º¡ø §ÅÚ ¦À¡Õû¸Ç¢Öõ ÅÕÁ¡¾Ä¡ø, ÌÆôÀõ ¾Å¢÷ì¸, þí¹Éõ Á¡È¢ÂÐ ±ÉÄ¡õ.

¬¸¡Âõ > ¬¸¡ºõ.

þ¾¢ø  ±ýÀÐ º Å¡¸ Á¡È¢ÂÐ. ÀÄ ¦º¡ü¸Ç¢ø þò¾¨¸Â ¾¢Ã¢Ò ÅóÐûÇÐ. ±ÎòÐ측ðÎìÌ ´ýÈ¢ÃñÎ: ¸ÄÂõ > ¸Äºõ (Áñ¸ÄóРŨÉÂôÀÎÅÐ).
š¢ø > Å¡ºø. §¿Âõ > §¿ºõ. µö verb to think, µö¾ø, µÂ¨É > §Â¡º¨É. (¬öóÐ µöóÐ À¡Ã¡Áø ±ýÀÐ ÅÆìÌ. ¬ø + µÂ¨É = ¬§Ä¡º¨É (.¬ÄÁÃò¾Ê¢ø §Â¡º¨É) þÅü¨Èô À¢ýÒ Å¡öôÒì ¸¢ðÎõ§À¡Ð ŢâòÐ §¿¡ì̧šõ!!

¬ ±ýÛõ ÍðÎ, ¦¾¡¨Ä× ÌÈ¢ìÌõ.

þôÀÊî Í𦼡Ģ §º÷òÐî ¦º¡øÅÐ À¢ü¸¡ÄòÐì ¸¡ÄÅñ½õ ±ýÚõ ÜÈÄ¡õ.


kAythal enRa sollukkup pala poruLuNdu. in-thach chollukku "oLi vIsuthal" enRoru poruLuNdu.

n-ilAk kAyum n-Eram varaNum enRa pAdal kEddiruppIrkaLE! "kAyum" enRAl oLi vIsukiRa enRu peruL.

kAy > kAyam. sky where the sun and stars shine or emit light.

pazangkAlaththil "kAyam" enpathu AkAyaththaik kuRiththathu. pazangkAla ilakkiyangkaLil ithu uLLathu.

ithu pin AkAyam enRu mARividdathu. ithaRkuk kAraNam, kAyam enRa sol vERu poruLkaLilum varumAthalAl, kuzappam thavirkka, ingnganam mARiyathu enalAm.

AkAyam > AkAsam.

ithil ya enpathu sa vAka mARiyathu. pala soRkaLil iththakaiya thiripu van-thuLLathu. eduththukkAddukku onRiraNdu: kalayam > kalasam (maNkalan-thu vanaiyappaduvathu).
vAyil > vAsal. n-Eyam > n-Esam. Oy verb to think, Oythal, Oyanai > yOsanai. (Ayn-thu Oyn-thu pArAmal enpathu vazakku. Al + Oyanai = AlOsanai (.Alamaraththadiyil yOsanai) ivaRRaip pinpu vAyppuk kiddumpOthu viriththu n-OkkuvOm!!

A ennum suddu, tholaivu kuRikkum.

ippadich chuddoli sErththuch cholvathu piRkAlaththuk kAlavaNNam(fashion) enRum kURalAm.

[bis_mala]

´ÕÅý, ¿¡½¡Áø §¸¡½¡Áø §¿Ã¡¸ ¿¢ýÈ¡ø «Åý ¸õÀ£ÃÁ¡¸ ¿¢ü¸¢ýÈ¡ý ±ýÚ ¦º¡øÅ÷. þó¾î ¦º¡ø¨Ä ¬Ã¡öó¾¡ø «Ð, ¸õÒ + ®Ãõ ±ýÈ þÕ ¦º¡ü¸Ç¢ý ÜðÎ ±ýÚ ¦¾Ã¢Ôõ.

¸õÒ§À¡ø §¸¡½¡Áø ¿¢üÀÐ ±ýÚ ¦À¡Õû.

®Ãõ ±ýÈ ¦º¡ø þÕò¾ø ±ýÚ þíÌ ¦À¡ÕûÀÎõ.

þÕ + «õ = ®Ãõ. (wet ±ýÚ ¦À¡ÕûÀÎõ ®Ãõ §ÅÚ.)

þÐ ÀÕ + «õ = À¡Ãõ ±ýÀЧÀ¡ýÈÐ. ÀÕò¾ø - ¦À⾡¾ø. ¦ÀâÂÐ ¸ÉÁ¡ö þÕìÌõ ¬¾Ä¡ø À¡Ãõ ±ýÀÐ ¸Éõ «øÄÐ ¸Éò¾ ¦À¡Õð¸¨Çì ÌÈ¢ò¾Ð.

À¡Ãõ ±ýÀÐ §À¡Ä§Å ®Ãõ ±ýÈ ¦º¡øÖõ «¨Áó¾Ð.

¸õÒ + ®Ãõ = ¸õÀ£Ãõ : ¬Â¢Ûõ À¢Ã¢òÐôÀ¡÷ì¸ ÓÊ¡¾ÀÊ þô§À¡Ð þ¡ø ´Õ¦º¡ø ±ýÈ ¾ý¨Á¨Â (´Õ¦º¡ýÉ£÷¨Á) «¨¼óÐÅ¢ð¼Ð.


oruvan, n-ANAmal kONAmal n-ErAka n-inRAl avan kampIramAka n-iRkinRAn enRu solvar. in-thas sollai ArAyn-thAl athu, kampu + Iram enRa iru soRkaLin kUddu enRu theriyum.

kampupOl kONAmal n-iRpathu enRu poruL.

Iram enRa sol iruththal enRu ingku poruLpadum.

iru + am = Iram. (wet enRu poruLpadum Iram vERu.)

ithu paru + am = pAram enpathupOnRathu. paruththal - perithAthal. periyathu kanamAy irukkum AthalAl pAram enpathu kanam allathu kanaththa porudkaLaik kuRiththathu.

pAram enpathu pOlavE Iram enRa sollum amain-thathu.

kampu + Iram = kampIram : Ayinum piriththuppArkka mudiyAthapadi ippOthu issol orusol enRa thanmaiyai (orusonnIrmai) adain-thuviddathu.

[bis_mala]

Let's now look at the word "aachchaaram". This word can be split into "aa" and "chaaram".

One can clearly see that "chaaram" is made up of "chaar" (chaarthal) and -am (suffix). Meaning: "chaarnthiruppathu" or "substance" (uLLiidu),

As to the first word "aa", it is "aathal" or "aakuthal". Please also see my explanation for the word of "aasiir" before if you have been following.

Hence aa+chaaram is vinaiththogai variety in grammar and means: "chaaram aavathu". In English, it means custom, practice or usage.

The roots of this word are Tamil.

¬+ º¡Ãõ = ¬îº¡Ãõ. (Å¢¨Éò¦¾¡¨¸).

º¡ÃÁ¡ÅÐ ±ýÚ ¦À¡Õû.

¬+º£÷ ±ýÀ¨¾ ¿¡ý Å¢Ç츢ÔûÇ¾ì ¸¡ñ¸.

Also see in this thread:

//Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 10:01 am Post subject: how to decide? One example is thabuthaaram.

tharu + am = thaaram. (one who gives a child to the husband, i.e. a wife)

thabuthal (verb) = keduthal. ( Verbs are not borrowable from other languages.)

thabuthaaram - thaaram izantha nilai. This is entirely a tamil terminology and not even a hybrid term. This term is "vinaiththogai".//

[jjsranjit]

Well may be it should be the other way around i.e Sanskrit was derived from TAMIL.
What is this we know that kal thoondi manthonda kalathil mootha kudi tamil kudi.
any way english, latin and greek are the offshoot of tamil.For ex. Cattamaran in english and tamil are the same.Any way after all language is a medium of communication.

[bis_mala]

Well may be it should be the other way around i.e Sanskrit was derived from TAMIL.
What is this we know that kal thoondi manthonda kalathil mootha kudi tamil kudi.
any way english, latin and greek are the offshoot of tamil.For ex. Cattamaran in english and tamil are the same.Any way after all language is a medium of communication.

Research by Western philologists show that about 1/3 of Skrt's words are derived from Tamil/Dravidian languages, about 1/3 from Western (Greek, Latin , Avestan and others ) and the last 1/3 either unknown or from Dravidian, Munda and other languages. According to S K Chatterji, Dravidian has influenced Skrt's sound system and several other features.Skrt is a hybrid.

Yes, languages are just tools for communication!!

[bis_mala]

Western researchers (linguists or philologists) classify Sanskrit as Indo-European and to find out whether a word is Sanskrit or not (disregarding for the moment the differences between Rigkrit, Pali, other related languages and the latter- day Sanskrit ) they look for equivalents in Old Iranian (Avestan etc ) and other Germanic tongues. If there is no equivalent, then it is a Dravidian word. The early Aryan had a limited vocabulary. If you adopt this method, Sivan, Vishnu etc are Dravidian.

If you do not believe in the Aryan Migration Theory of the Western researchers, then Sanskrit is not Indo-Euro. Then you must say that it grew up in India and the west-related words in it were then "borrowed" by Sanskrit. But all other words which have no relatives in the West may or may not have common orgin with Tamil words or were borrowed from Tamil and other South/Middle/Northern Dravidian languages now living as well as those extinct. Tamil is primitive and older; if roots show a word to be Tamil, then the word is Tamil.

A word may be said to be Sanskrit because of early documentation and usage and not necesssarily by origin. Some authors prefer this method. In this method, colloquial Tamil usage may become ignored and this is the risk. A colloquial word in one area may have found its way into literary usage in another area of a different language but then the roots of the word will betray its origin. I therefore sometimes think it did not matter whether a word is Tamil or Sanskrit or of other language. The roots are looked for usually with the view to better understanding of history and culture; also for definition of its meaning and proper usage.. This is academic and not for people to boast.

Note: The above was moved from: Evolution of Saivaism and it's development in Tamil Nadu from the Indian History & Culture Section.